Nikon D80

[handicap18]

http://nikonimaging.com/global/index.htm

19 more days (august 9th?) and Nikon is releasing a new dSLR. 10.2 megapixels. The D200 has 10.2 MP, but thats still pretty new. The D70s is 6.1MP and has been around for while (almost 2 years) so maybe this is the next step. More powerful than the D70s but not quite all the bells and whistles as the D200. It does mention affordablilty in the ad. Maybe $1299 vs the D200 $1600 and D70s $999??

Possibly very similar to Canon's 30D but with 10.2mp instead of 8mp.

I guess will know in 2 1/2 weeks.

[YEKCIM]

Think Nikon might be hearing some Sony Alpha footsteps???

~YEKCIM

[Anewman]

More powerful than the D70s but not quite all the bells and whistles as the D200. It does mention affordablilty in the ad. Maybe $1299 vs the D200 $1600 and D70s $999??

Possibly very similar to Canon's 30D but with 10.2mp instead of 8mp.


Nikon tends to produce TWEENERS and rarely straight competitors to Canon models, it has worked very well for them.

Take the D70, it was actually priced closer to the 20D than to the REBEL. But it was actually trying to compete with both lines.


Think Nikon might be hearing some Sony Alpha footsteps???

~YEKCIM


Maybe...

But I think they would rather aim at the #1 DSLR brand in the world, instead of a company that hasnt sold a single DSLR yet.

[seabright1]

Could it be a d200 with a plastic body?

[mhutchinson]

or maybe a full frame to compete closer with the Canon 5D???

[Kelly Grannell]

I just hate it when the megapixel race is being joined by the dSLRs too. :(

[Anewman]

Things that caught my attention.

10.2mp(very similar to that in D200 and the new Sony)
larger and brighter viewfinder
Uses SD cards
built-in wireless flash controller
increased burst capcity over D70s(95% jpeg, 25% raw).
2.5 inch LCD
RGB histogram(I LIKE)
Selectable maximum ISO(for auto modes)
Now uses same battery as D200
detailed battery status in LCD(%, shots taken and 5 level icon)
Vertical grip will be available
configurable high ISO NR(makes me curious)
New image processor(based but no exactly like D200)

[Charade]

Time to Ebay my D70 and move on up! The two things I didn't like about the D70 is the tiny LCD rear screen and the smaller than my 6006 viewfinder.

Other than that, I like the camera.

[Furgus]

LetsGoDigital has a full review up. Plan on keeping my D50, but man this is tempting :)

http://www.letsgodigital.org/html/review/nikond80/

[Charade]

Some guys over at DPREVIEW are already saying they won't buy a D80 because stupid Nikon put an SD slot in it.

They're a tough crowd to please. Crybabies...

[Kelly Grannell]

By putting SD (and not SDHC) they limit themselves to 2 Gb card. Also pros are using CF cards. If a start anew then it's fine, but say for a photographer like me with more than 10 Gb of CF cards... what should I do? chuck all of them away and re-buy 2 Gb SD cards?

I like everything I read about the camera except for the SD card. At least use SDHC so you can use greater-than-2GB SD cards.

[Furgus]

I read that the D80 supports SDHC up to 32gb, which are not out yet, but the 4gb got released a couple of weeks ago.

[DebºoºS]

This is really looking good for my situation. The reviews are good so far. I really like the larger screen, SD is fine for me. popcorn::
Wonder how hard it's going to be to actually obtain one? I'd love to have it by my Oct. trip. :banana:

[caniswolfie]

I read that the D80 supports SDHC up to 32gb, which are not out yet, but the 4gb got released a couple of weeks ago.

It's listed in the PDF of the D80 specs on Nikon USA's website (http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1&grp=2&productNr=25412). It's listed under the cards that are supported and it supports the 4GB card. (and also mentions SDHC support)

[mhutchinson]

By putting SD (and not SDHC) they limit themselves to 2 Gb card.


But honestley of all my CF cards, they are all either 1GB or 2GB. I don't buy anything larger. The only reason I would is if the camera megapixal capture was 16MB or greater.

[Kelly Grannell]

It's good to know that it takes SDHC. But still... SD cards?

[Anewman]

Well the D200 and the Sony have less than great high Iso noise levels.
Also Canon has stated that anything more than 8.2 MP on a 1.6x crop sensor would increase noise levels above current models levels.

While I am not as emphatic about high ISO noise as are others, like the ones that label a camera ignoring other great features and specs based on that SINGLE issue.

But IMO it seems to be the only possible issue I would be concerned about(at this point). But noise levels would have to be really bad for me to ignore all the other positives this camera seems to offer.

[handicap18]

By putting SD (and not SDHC) they limit themselves to 2 Gb card. Also pros are using CF cards. If a start anew then it's fine, but say for a photographer like me with more than 10 Gb of CF cards... what should I do? chuck all of them away and re-buy 2 Gb SD cards?

I like everything I read about the camera except for the SD card. At least use SDHC so you can use greater-than-2GB SD cards.

I have about 25 laser disks and a laser disk player. They were much better than VHS and Beta. Still, I moved on to DVD. Oh how about all those cassette tapes and albums that are collecting dust along with the cassette decks and record players. How much money did you invest in those items before moving on to CD's. Show me the professional DJ thats been in the business for 20+ years that is still using records. Heck, I bet there are a lot today that don't even use CD's. They just download directly to their computer and play from there.

Remember the 5 1/2" floppy disk (the ones that were actually "floppy"). Yep replaced by the smaller 3 1/2" floppy. If I'm not mistaken, new computers today don't even come standard with a floppy drive.

How hard is it now to get B&W film developed. Sure you can buy the film, but there aren't to many places that will actually develope it.

My point is. Times change. Equipment changes. You change with it or be stuck in the past.

Apparently Nikon has figured that the future is with SD? You can make more camera with SD than with CF.

Life happens.

[Kelly Grannell]

Point taken, I still have about 300 LD in my collection and 2 LD players. But those are playback media. That doesn't count.

However, with the max capacity of CF of (currently) 8 Gb (or was it 12 Gb?) and the price of CF to be cheaper than SD (and far cheaper than SDHC), also for pros need of changing cards quickly, SD is (to me) not the answer.

The smaller cards makes it more difficult to change the cards quickly (I tried with XD cards during my Olympus days), easier to get lost, and although honestly I never tried it with SD cards, I've accidentally machine washed a CF card full of pictures, put it in my dryer, and took the card out in horror but all the pictures etc are intact!

[handicap18]

As for the camera itself. Initially it looks like it will be great. basically a D200 in a D50 body. The real test will come once people actually review images taken with it. Will it be like the D50 and have better noise at higher ISO than the D70/D70s, same sensor but upgraded at the higher ISO's for better quality. I guess the D50 is the benchmark in the Nikon line for that. If that is the case this will be a supurb camera. Biggest issues I've seen in a few quick initial reviews are slower flash sync and still only 3 FPS. I'm eager to see images and what the reviews will be. I wont be upgrading from my D50 in the near future, but who knows what will happen in a few years.

The 2 new lenes will be nice too. AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G IF-ED (http://www.nikon.com.my/pagearticle.php?pageid=92) and AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED (http://www.nikon.com.my/pagearticle.php?pageid=93) . I like the idea of the 18-135mm, especially after seeing reviews of the Sigma and Tamron's 18-200mm and the issues they have. Since the Sigma 18-125mm gets great reviews by those here I would imagine that the Nikkor 18-135 would be ideal for Nikon users. These 2 lenses alone could be the perfect 2 lens combo for Disney. But again we'll see what actual user reviews will be. If the 18-135mm is anything like the 18-70mm, I will definately upgrade. Price will also be a factor though.

Other thing I read. 3 month wait for actual release of the D80. haven't heard about the lenses yet though.

Edited to add:
I take that back. 18-135mm scheduled for world wide release in Sept '06 and 70-300mm scheduled for October '06 release.

[caniswolfie]

This idea is good to a point. In most cases there is enough of an advance in the technology, capacity, functionality to make the jump worth it. The jump from Laserdisc to DVD with much greater capacity, smaller size, more features. I know it's fun when the laserdisc needs to be flipped (even though some players did that for you).

The change in floppies went from a easily damaged case to smaller hard case and a slight bump in capacity.

In some cases it seems the market doesn't need the new technology and won't support it. For example, DVD audio discs has been around for a while and seemed to have died a quiet death. :)

In the case of SD vs CF I don't see the advantage of switching between the two in most applications that would merit people dumping their current tech and going with another if you already have a decent amount of equipment using the preferred format.

In terms of size, they are both pretty small and not really that bulky. Capacity is pretty close with CF having an upper hand. Transmission speed I'm not sure, but I haven't heard anyone claiming that the either one is too slow for their needs (and aren't limited by other technologies that would make a faster transmission speed irrellevant, such as USB speed, camera processing, etc.). Price isn't that huge of a difference.

The only thing I can see that may really sway a person is if the devices that use the format start to decrease in frequency and you are forced to switch eventually. Sort of the situation between VHS and Beta. Or now with DVD and VHS (the difficulty of finding VHS movies nowadays).

[handicap18]

SD cards are getting bigger (capacity wise). Thats generally what happens in electronics. Things get smaller and can hold more. Electronic Evolution. I do understand the initial hesitation. I guess only the future will tell.

Look at it this way. With the way camcorders are going, how long will it be before digital still cameras have a built in hard drive? Then ALL cards will be deemed no good.

Can you see in 5 years or so. 15.4MG Nikon D300 with a 10GIG built in hard drive. Or the Canon 14.1MG 60D with a 12GIG built in hard drive. Not to far fetched? Is it?

[Anewman]

Also pros are using CF cards. If a start anew then it's fine, but say for a photographer like me with more than 10 Gb of CF cards... what should I do? chuck all of them away and re-buy 2 Gb SD cards?



No you should not throw them all away, but maybe you should consider who this camera is targeted at.

I really do not think it is the pro market or towards those that already have 10gb of CF cards.

[Kelly Grannell]

OIC, I guess I misunderstood then. I thought this camera is to be the higher end version of D70. My bad.

[Anewman]

OIC, I guess I misunderstood then. I thought this camera is to be the higher end version of D70. My bad.

NO, you made no bad at all.

When we use Canon some feel it lines up against the 30D, but in reality it is a tweener with a $999 msrp. Not exactly a REBEL XT competitor nor a 30D competitor.

It is some good marketing Nikon has going on, the price is closer to the 30D but they compare it spec wise vs the XT. Same with the D200, the 30D is priced closer to the D80 but Nikon wants it compared to the D200 spec wise.

[lovingmy2boys]

Well my Canon S2 was stolen 2 days ago and now I am going to savce for the Nikon D70 Or D80. I have a Nikon N70 so I already have the lenes and filters.

Does anyone have either the D70 or D80 and can tell me which they prefer. I see that the D80 had a 10MP vs 6.1 MP on the D70.

Thanks!

[ducklite]

D70 user here. I'd save a bit more and go for a D200. D70 gets very noisy at high ISO. Any lens that will work with a D-70 will work with any other Nikon digital. Some of you N70 lenses might not work with the digital intergrated autofocus systems.

Anne

[fitzperry]

I've had a D70 for about 2 years now. As ducklite pointed out, noise at higher ISO's is its primary drawback. Other than that, I love it. Is the D70 (or D70s) even in production anymore?

Check the reviews, but I believe with the newer sensor, the D80 should perform better at high ISO's. The larger lcd and viewfinder are also nice. The 6.1 mp on the D70 has always been plenty for me. I've printed up to 16x20, and they look great. Honestly, I figure anything more is probably just wasting hard drive space (though I'd take it in exchange for less noisy high ISO shots).

Also, this is a useful source for checking the compatibility of your older lenses: http://www.nikonians.org/nikon/slr-lens.html

[Furgus]

I have a D50, and so do a couple of my co-workers. I love the camera and it takes some great pictures. If you don't need the extra Megapixles go with the D50. The D80 is a very nice camera and I have a friend who has it and he loves it. I guess any of those cameras are nice, and if you buy a D200 I will trade my D50 for it :)

[YEKCIM]

I'm not a Nikon guy, yet, but most likely will be within the next month or so. I'm leaning strongly toward the D50 due to three things, primarily:

1. Out of camera JPEG's are very good quality
2. Current price ($450 online, body only; can buy TWO D50's for cost of one D80)
3. Comparison photos of same subject on www.dcresource.com made by either camera, printed as 8X10's look great with either camera and, IMO, the ones made with the D50 look better. Check the D50 and D80 reviews on this site and see what you think. I bet you will be impressed by the D50 shots.

The D80 does offer some advantages, such as viewfinder, LCD, buttons, flash commander, etc, but I don't see the "extra" megapixels as that big a deal. As I said, the 8X10's are great from either one, and it is rare that I even print that size, much less larger.

My $0.02.

~YEKCIM

[Groucho]

My understanding is that the D80 is definitely the hot Nikon at the moment, and doesn't have any serious noise issues (if anything, the noise reduction is slightly overaggressive at high ISOs.)

The D50 is pretty nice too if you can give up a few features and want to save a pile of cash.

At Beach, for body-only, a D50 is $454, a D70s is $649, a D80 is $949, and a D200 is $1,318.

Given the big spread between the D70s and the D80, you're probably right to make sure that the extra $300 is worth it.

[lovingmy2boys]

Thank you everyone. I didn't even think to look at the D50. I honestly don't really need the extra MP that the D80 offers. The D50 or the D70s would work fine. I am just strting to get really get into photography as i have been shooting with my N70 for a little over a year.

I will look into the other options. Can anyone share some photos with me that you have taken with your Nikons?

[Furgus]

Here is a link to my blog. Anything after April, minus the Disney Photos were taken with my D50.

My Blog (http://gavette.blogspot.com/)

[lovingmy2boys]

Very nice! Thanks for sharing.

[safetymom]

I have a D70s and love it.

[Groucho]

Thank you everyone. I didn't even think to look at the D50. I honestly don't really need the extra MP that the D80 offers. The D50 or the D70s would work fine. I am just strting to get really get into photography as i have been shooting with my N70 for a little over a year.
From what I've seen, you won't be unhappy with the image quality of the D50. The only reason to go to a higher model is if there are features that you require (or at least desire!) that are not available on the D50.

Since you're coming off a film SLR, chances are that most any DSLR will match or beat what you're used to in terms of functionality. ;)

[ducklite]

I will look into the other options. Can anyone share some photos with me that you have taken with your Nikons?

www.flamingolegs.com

Anne

[Anewman]

I agree with Groucho(yes its true).
The D50 equals the image quality of the d70(s), only difference comes in the features and speed.

Buydig currently has the D50(refurbished) @ $359.

http://www.buydig.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=NKD50RB

[handicap18]

I was an N70 user for just about 10 years. Loved that camera. I still have it but it is currently being stored in my closet. I went digital about 4 1/2 years ago with a P&S, but still used the N70 occassionally. I finally tired of the limitations of the P&S and went and got myself the D50 back in January. Basically for the month of December last year I reasearched high and low for which Nikon dSLR I was going to get. Going into it I was convinced that the D70 or D70s was what I was going to get. It didn't take too long to realize just how good the D50 was/is and it was a lot less money (more than $300 at the time). It doesn't have some features of the D70s, like the extra command dial, DOF preview, backlit status LCD, and a few other small things, but neither does the N70, or if it did, I never used it so I wouldn't miss it. The sensor on the D50 is an upgrade from the D70 (not completely sure about the D70s as Nikon did make some modifications). The sensor is also one of the best performers for high ISO. I absolutly love my D50 and am very happy with it. I would love to get a D80 with the 2 1/2" LCD and the extra command dial, but the 10MP vs 6MP doesn't do a lot for me especially when the price is $500 more.

I just recently enlarged a few pic's I took of the kids last weekend to 8x10 and 11x14. I also croped them to about 75% of the original file and they still look awesome when enlarged. The 11x14 print is VERY sharp. I am extremely happy with the results.

In my signature there are 2 links to my 2 photo galleries. For the Disney one, all the June 2006 Trip pictures were taken with my D50. In the Misc Pictures one, I would say 99% of the pictures there were taken with my D50. Feel free to look around both galleries.

Happy shopping.

[fitzperry]

FWIW, I did miss the extra command dial when I played with a friend's D50, but then again I'm used to the controls on the D70. If you shoot a lot in manual mode, I believe you'll have to use the menus more to make adjustments than you would with a D70 or 80. That said, if I were buying my first dslr, I'd probably go with the D50 for the reasons others have mentioned--newer generation sensor, better high ISO performance and, of course, price. I'd take the savings and apply it to better lenses.

[handicap18]

Good point about applying the savings to lenses Jen.

As for the command dial, I would like to have that on the D50. I've been using manual a bit more recently, however with the D50 you don't use the menu. In manual to change the shutter you use the 1 command dial and to change the aperture you have to press the EC button while turning the command dial. Somewhat of a pain but do able with one hand. There is a button to press (in conjuction with the command dial) next to the LCD screen to adjust ISO and change White Balance without using the menu.

[fitzperry]

Good point about applying the savings to lenses Jen.

As for the command dial, I would like to have that on the D50. I've been using manual a bit more recently, however with the D50 you don't use the menu. In manual to change the shutter you use the 1 command dial and to change the aperture you have to press the EC button while turning the command dial. Somewhat of a pain but do able with one hand. There is a button to press (in conjuction with the command dial) next to the LCD screen to adjust ISO and change White Balance without using the menu.

I wondered if there might be some shortcuts, but it was pretty dark on the beach when I was playing with my friend's camera and trying to set the aperture, so we didn't check the manual.

On the D70, you can switch the aperture and shutter controls. In other words, the main command dial usually controls shutter speed, and the sub-command dial controls aperture, but I switched them because I tend to shoot more in aperture priority than in shutter or manual, and I think it's easier to access the main dial. Do you know if you can switch the controls on the D50?

[lovingmy2boys]

Any info on the D40 that just came out???

[YEKCIM]

Any info on the D40 that just came out???

Several reviews are out. Do a google search for "d40 review". I have not looked at this one seriously, but there are a few very significant characteristics:

*No in-body focus motor, which means it will autofocus ONLY with lenses that have the motor in the lens.
*Smaller size; may be a plus or a minus, depending on your hand sizes
*No top status LCD

I'm sure there are other noteworthy items, as well; read a review or two to see if the 40 matches your needs.

~YEKCIM

[Groucho]

I think the general consensus is that the D50 is preferable to the D40, despite the smaller LCD. You can probably get a D50 for cheaper at this point, too (I'll skip my usual Beach price check this time :) ).

The fact that Nikon advertises the D40's kit lens at a "3x zoom" pretty much says it all about who they're targeting with it. ;)

[Furgus]

Any info on the D40 that just came out???

D40 review at KenRockwell.com

D40 (http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d40.htm#intro)

Very nice camera.

[lovingmy2boys]

I think i will stick with the D50.

[Furgus]

Can't go wrong with it :)

Hope you enjoy the camera, I know I do. Now I just wish the replacement for the D200 will come out next year sometime, and I will be upgrading :)

[YEKCIM]

Just posted (12/2):

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond40/

~YEKCIM

[handicap18]

I wondered if there might be some shortcuts, but it was pretty dark on the beach when I was playing with my friend's camera and trying to set the aperture, so we didn't check the manual.

On the D70, you can switch the aperture and shutter controls. In other words, the main command dial usually controls shutter speed, and the sub-command dial controls aperture, but I switched them because I tend to shoot more in aperture priority than in shutter or manual, and I think it's easier to access the main dial. Do you know if you can switch the controls on the D50?

When you are in shutter priority mode the command dial operates the shutter choices. When you are in aperture priority the command dial will operate the aperture choices. Its only when in manual that you have to press the Exposure Compensation button while using the command dial to change aperture as just using the command dial in manual will change the shutter.

[YEKCIM]

When you are in shutter priority mode the command dial operates the shutter choices. When you are in aperture priority the command dial will operate the aperture choices. Its only when in manual that you have to press the Exposure Compensation button while using the command dial to change aperture as just using the command dial in manual will change the shutter.

Kyle,

Good info; I had been wondering that myself. Does not seem that one dial would be too much of an inconvenience unless shooting manual, which I rarely do. Still playing with the gear "mix", after learning recently that I'll have a good bit more cash to play with after 1/1/07. Contemplating *two* D50 bodies or one D80 plus 17-70 Siggy, 28-200 Nikkor (G), a 10-20 Siggy, and a partridge in a pear tree.

Thanks for the mini-tutorial!

~Ed

[Groucho]

Contemplating *two* D50 bodies or one D80 plus 17-70 Siggy, 28-200 Nikkor (G), a 10-20 Siggy, and a partridge in a pear tree.
From zero to two DSLRs in one fell swoop? :)

I'd go for the D80 were I making that choice. Of course, I'm one of those people who can never set up mirrored hard drives on my computer as I'd rather have the extra space.

At the very least, I'd lean towards a single D50 and the lenses that you KNOW you need, and once you have the camera in hand, you'll be able to make a more informed choice about what you then need most - whether it be a specific lens or two, or a tripod, or a filter, or bag, or whatever - trust me, it's easy to find SOME way to spend the leftover money on photo equipment. ;)

[YEKCIM]

From zero to two DSLRs in one fell swoop? :)

I'd go for the D80 were I making that choice. Of course, I'm one of those people who can never set up mirrored hard drives on my computer as I'd rather have the extra space.

At the very least, I'd lean towards a single D50 and the lenses that you KNOW you need, and once you have the camera in hand, you'll be able to make a more informed choice about what you then need most - whether it be a specific lens or two, or a tripod, or a filter, or bag, or whatever - trust me, it's easy to find SOME way to spend the leftover money on photo equipment. ;)

Grouch:

Valid points, all. I'm coming from the capable-for-what-it-is Fuji S5200, but before that, I used Minolta Maxxum gear, and typically used two bodies, with different lenses on each body. Easier and faster, by far, to switch cameras than to dismount one lens, pack it away, and mount another. Since one can buy two D50's for, currently, exactly the cost of one D80, I have been toying with that idea. I'd love the 80's 230K 2.5" LCD, pentaprism (not pentamirror), vf grid and a couple other small items, but don't see enough difference in IQ between the two to justify 2X the cost of a D50. D50 out-of-cam images look great to me, and I hate PP, so that is a plus. Still weighing options and may end up with an 80; we'll see. Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.

~Ed

[fitzperry]

When you are in shutter priority mode the command dial operates the shutter choices. When you are in aperture priority the command dial will operate the aperture choices. Its only when in manual that you have to press the Exposure Compensation button while using the command dial to change aperture as just using the command dial in manual will change the shutter.

That's interesting. On the D70, in aperture priority, you still use the sub-command dial to adjust aperture, which I think is a bit of a pain--hence the switch.

[Groucho]

Grouch:

Valid points, all. I'm coming from the capable-for-what-it-is Fuji S5200, but before that, I used Minolta Maxxum gear, and typically used two bodies, with different lenses on each body. Easier and faster, by far, to switch cameras than to dismount one lens, pack it away, and mount another.
Ahh, I see where you're coming from. That makes a bit more sense.

If you do end up going this way, you may want to consider an Op/Tech Reporter strap (http://www.optechusa.com/product/detail/?PRODUCT_ID=24&PRODUCT_SUB_ID=&CATEGORY_ID=4), which holds two cameras safely so they're not banging into each other all the time. It looks like a really good solution to the problem of carrying two bodies safely.

[YEKCIM]

Ahh, I see where you're coming from. That makes a bit more sense.

If you do end up going this way, you may want to consider an Op/Tech Reporter strap (http://www.optechusa.com/product/detail/?PRODUCT_ID=24&PRODUCT_SUB_ID=&CATEGORY_ID=4), which holds two cameras safely so they're not banging into each other all the time. It looks like a really good solution to the problem of carrying two bodies safely.

I usually wear my photojournalist vest, whcih has snap-closure epaulets on both shoulders, and that usually takes care of securing them. BTW, I have used the vest on each of the past four (03, 04, 05, and 06) visits to Mickey's World and find it to be the absolute best way to carry all my "stuff".

Here is the one I use (sans WDW paraphernalia):

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j11/fasteddiew/DSCF0638.jpg

Love it!

~Ed

[Groucho]

I remember seeing your vest before but I was curious - how does the monopod stay in? It looks like it'd fall out any time you leaned forward.

I did a lot of thinking a few days ago puzzling over the best way to carry the monopod and/or tripod hands-free. I eventually used my camera bag's original strap on the top of the center column and one leg to make a shoulder strap, and for the monopod, I'm thinking a cheap carabiner (like the keychain ones that look like climbing tools) can snap around my belt and the monopod's wrist strap, and allow for quick access and keep it pretty much out of the way. The tripod could also be carried the same way via the strap - I even tried loosening my belt slightly and sticking one of the tripod legs in there, like a scabbard. My wife was thoroughly embarrassed but I tell you, it worked surprisingly well and was surprisingly not uncomfortable.

Ah, the lengths we'll go to to carry our gear. :rotfl:

[YEKCIM]

I remember seeing your vest before but I was curious - how does the monopod stay in? It looks like it'd fall out any time you leaned forward.

If you look closely at the top of the 'pod in the photo above, you will see that it has a split ring (like keychain ring) and that the vest's lanyard/clip is clipped to the split ring. The base of the pod is, in turn, just inserted into the open pocket at the bottom of the vest.

FWIW, I did not find the monopod all that useful in still photography, but it was a *lifesaver* with the camcorder. Most all of my filming was done of long events (B&B show at MGM, MK parade, Illuminations, etc) and it made videography much less taxing and the results much steadier. The pod I use, I got from buy.com for about fifteen bucks.

~Ed

[Miller1412]

Santa brought me the D80 for Christmas (:cool1: ) but I'm stumped by one thing...sometimes when I take the shot, I'm getting it displayed sideways on the LCD monitor even when I'm taking a horizontal shot. For now, I turned off the vertical/horizontal feature, but I'm sure there is something I'm doing wrong or have set wrong. Can anyone point me in the right direction?? I'm not seeing it in the manual...but directions to me might as well be written in Latin. ;)

[tinksdad]

Santa brought me the D80 for Christmas (:cool1: ) but I'm stumped by one thing...sometimes when I take the shot, I'm getting it displayed sideways on the LCD monitor even when I'm taking a horizontal shot. For now, I turned off the vertical/horizontal feature, but I'm sure there is something I'm doing wrong or have set wrong. Can anyone point me in the right direction?? I'm not seeing it in the manual...but directions to me might as well be written in Latin. ;)

That seems odd....

I have the D200, I'm going to assume the menus are "similar". On the "Setup" menu (wrench symbol), go to Auto Image Rotation and select > ON.

The D200 also has a setting in the display settings (arrow symbol) for "Rotate Tall" that shows the vertical shots in the horiz position. You might see if that is on, or stuck.

You might want to post the question in the Nikonians D80 Group Forum (http://www.nikonians.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID236&conf=DCConfID3) for some help. You will probably have to register first, but it's free for a basic membership and they have some great info.

[handicap18]

There should be an option in the menu called image rotation. Make sure it is ON (choice might actually be Automatic) not off. This will rotate it in the LCD screen. It wont however rotate it once you download to the computer.

[Miller1412]

Thanks for your replies. I've gotten it narrowed down to a problem with the sensor. When I rotate the camera to the right, the picture comes up on the display in perfect alignment. Rotated back to a horizontal position, the photo still comes up on the display in vertical format (so now the photo is being displayed sideways). If the camera is rotated to the right vertically, the photo sometimes comes up sideways on the display, sometimes not. A couple of times the photo was even displayed upside down.

So now...I'm taking the camera back to the store tomorrow to get another. I'm a little nervous now about buying an expensive piece of equipment and having this as a recurring problem.

Has anyone else with a D80 had this problem, or is it a fluke? I'm hoping it's not a standard Nikon problem, but I'm worried now.:confused3

[Steve's Girl]

Have a D80 - don't have this problem. Hopefully just a fluke. Try another one. When it works properly, it really is a great camera!

[Miller1412]

Have a D80 - don't have this problem. Hopefully just a fluke. Try another one. When it works properly, it really is a great camera!
That's a relief to hear. I took it back today and a new one should be here Wednesday. Other than the sensor, it seemed great. I can't wait to dive in and get to know it. Thanks!!

[GoofyGolferGirl]

We don't have a local camera shop, so I want to buy a Nikon D80 off the internet. Is this smart?? What sites do you suggest?? Has anyone ever purchased from thecamerapros.com?

[Furgus]

B&H, Buydig.com, Ritz.

Those are some good sites to look at. Not sure about the one you listed.

[barrie]

Believe it or not, I've been buying my camera gear from Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_p/002-1593207-4294411?url=search-alias%3Dphoto&field-keywords=nikon+d80) lately. They are reputable and their prices are comparable to other sites. I just trust them.

[tinksdad]

B&H is very good and reliable. I've gotten MANY things there.


I actually found my D200 at the local Best Buy. You might try that.... or another electronic store.

[YEKCIM]

Add Beach to the mix, as well. They and buydig are the same, or sister companies, but sometimes one is less than the other. Like another poster, I have occasionally found Amazon to be a good source. I just ordered a Nikon 18-135mm zoom, to go with my new D50, from Amazon, and saved some significant money.

~YEKCIM

[Steve's Girl]

B&H is very good and reliable. I've gotten MANY things there.


I actually found my D200 at the local Best Buy. You might try that.... or another electronic store.

I bought my D80 from Best Buy also. I spoke to the manager, and they reduced the price some for me. They also had the best warranty. I think it was something like 4yrs. for $149 and it covered most any type of damage - even dropping it on concrete, in the toilet, etc. At the time I was looking, the reduced price Best Buy gave me was equal to anything I could find online from a reputable seller. Plus, they had 18mo. 0% financing!

[Jockaroo]

This is my first post on the Photo board, but I've been looking at many of the great shots posted for the past few weeks.

We recently purchased a Nikon D80 (with 18-135mm lens) and are still in the playing-with-the-camera-to-learn-it stage. My question is this:

I am shooting in both JPG and NEF (Raw) format. When I open the JPG files in Photoshop CS2, my histogram shows nothing in the upper 20% or so of my images (no highlights) and the photos are dull, dark and flat. I can open the same file in the Raw converter (from Photoshop) and open a copy as a JPG in PS CS2 and the histogram shows details in the highlight area and the image has much more depth, brightness and highlights.

Any ideas what I am doing wrong. My whitebalance is set to auto. I'm still learning the camera, so I'm sure I have a setting wrong. This problem is showing up in shots outside in sunlight, shade and inside with and without the flash. I've tried tests with the auto point and shoot functions, but most are taken with the Aperture priority setting. Thanks!

[Steve's Girl]

Without digging out my manual, my first few questions are:
1. What is the quality of the jpeg - basic, normal, fine?
2. What are your settings for Sharpening, Tone, Color Mode and Satuation (located in the Shooting Menu under Optimize Image)? These settings make a huge difference in the appearance of jpegs.

Edited to add: I assume you are referring to a D80? If not, just disregard everything I wrote!

[fitzperry]

I agree with Steve's Girl to check the settings. Also, the D70's only option for RAW + JPG is a basic JPG. I'm not sure if the D80 is the same or not, but if it is, I think that may explain some of the difference.

[tinksdad]

The camera settings sounds like the culprit to me as well. When shooting JPG the camera will apply what ever settings it has to the picture and then compresses it to save. RAW adds nothing and is lossless.

The D80 has the following image settings that you can change:

• Preset modes: Normal, Softer, Vivid, More Vivid, Portrait, B&W
• Sharpening: Auto, 6 levels
• Tone: Auto, 5 levels, Custom curve
• Color mode: Ia (sRGB), II (Adobe RGB), IIIa (sRGB)
• Saturation: Auto, 3 levels
• Hue: -9° to +9°

[mabas9395]

I think that you can think of a jpg right out of the camera as a RAW file that has been converted by the camera settings you choose. And of course the RAW file opened by Photoshop is converted by Photoshop.

What you are going to find is that two different RAW converters are going to give you different resulting jpgs. If they are both set for the most "neutral" setting, then they are most likely to be similar. But as mentioned above, if you boost any of the camera settings (saturation, contrast, etc) then those jpgs could be very different. Even your cameras "auto" white balance could yield different results than Photoshops "auto" wb when it converts to jpg.

[Steve's Girl]

I agree with Steve's Girl to check the settings. Also, the D70's only option for RAW + JPG is a basic JPG. I'm not sure if the D80 is the same or not, but if it is, I think that may explain some of the difference.


D80 does allow you to choose your jpeg quality when you are shooting RAW+jpeg. (I always use RAW+jpeg fine. If I got my exposure right, I use the jpeg. If I goofed something I have the RAW to fall back on.)

[Jockaroo]

Thanks for your replies. And I have fixed the title of the thread--the camera is the Nikon D80. I still have my old N2000 model on the brain I guess!

To answer the questions asked:

I am shooting raw with fine jpeg.
Using the following settings:
--Sharpening: auto
--Tone: auto
--Color Mode: I a(sRGB) -- should I change this to II (Adobe RGB) since I'm using Photoshop?
--Saturation: Auto
--Hue adjustment: 0 degrees

Many of the auto settings have an option for "normal". Would this be a better option?

I have the Magic Lantern Guides book and DVD for the camera. I've watched the DVD and need to watch again. I also have found the section of the book that explains the settings you have mentioned and will be reading up on these as well. The camera has so many settings and I'm getting a little confused. Based on my settings, do you have any additional advice? Thanks.

And Steve's Girl, thanks for pointing me in the correct direction to find these settings--I really am just learning the camera. It is a huge step up from my digital point and shoot Olympus.

[fitzperry]

D80 does allow you to choose your jpeg quality when you are shooting RAW+jpeg. (I always use RAW+jpeg fine. If I got my exposure right, I use the jpeg. If I goofed something I have the RAW to fall back on.)

I wish the D70 offered that option. I'd like to do that sometimes too, and the basic jpeg is pretty useless to me.

[Anewman]

--Color Mode: I a(sRGB) -- should I change this to II (Adobe RGB) since I'm using Photoshop?

That depends what the color space setting you have in Photoshop.

[Steve's Girl]

I am shooting raw with fine jpeg.
Using the following settings:
--Sharpening: auto
--Tone: auto
--Color Mode: I a(sRGB) -- should I change this to II (Adobe RGB) since I'm using Photoshop?
--Saturation: Auto
--Hue adjustment: 0 degrees

Many of the auto settings have an option for "normal". Would this be a better option?




Personally, I don't use a lot of the auto settings because your results may be unpredictable. Here are the settings I use:
-- sharpening: medium low (I prefer to do this pp where I have more control over the levels. Too much sharpening in the camera can degrade the quality of the image)
-- tone: normal
-- color mode: Ia most of the time. IIIa is good for landscapes, etc. But I think that sometimes the colors can get a bit too vivid and almost "cartoony" with IIIa. I've never used 2 - over my head!
-- saturation: normal
-- hue adjustment: 0

This is kind of like the blind leading the blind here. Try some of these settings and maybe post some examples.

[handicap18]

best place to post your question is over at nikonians.org. They have a D80 users forum. Lots of seasoned photog's over there. I actually haven't visited that forum, but I go to the D50 users forum all the time as well as Nikkor Lenses and 3rd party Lenses forum.

Definately play around with the settings to find what you like best. Took me about a month or so to figure out what I liked best on my D50. I played around a lot with the custom settings and then ended up not using them, opting instead for the Vivid option. I like that one best.

[Jockaroo]

I've changed my settings and I'll try to get out and shoot some similar shots to compare to the ones I've had problems with. Unfortunately, everything I was shooting outdoors is now frozen and dead, but it should be warming up in the next couple of days. Thanks.

[Jockaroo]

best place to post your question is over at nikonians.org. They have a D80 users forum. Lots of seasoned photog's over there. I actually haven't visited that forum, but I go to the D50 users forum all the time as well as Nikkor Lenses and 3rd party Lenses forum.

Thanks, I'll check into that forum as well. I hope they don't mind novice-type questions. I posted here because I feel so comfortable with this forum, but appreciate an additional direction.

I'll keep playing with the settings as suggested. I've got time to learn the camera. I don't have a big vacation or "life event" in the near future, so I do have time to practice. Who knows, maybe in the weeks to come, I can start posting photos here also.

[ranthony]

OK, I've been researching and need a bit more information. I'm hoping someone here can help. I'm looking to enter the dSLR world. I currently have and old Nikon N50 with a 35-80mm AF Nikkor lens. Here are my questions:

1. Will my lens AF on the D40s? (If I'm understanding what I'm reading correctly, it won't).

2. Will my lens AF on the D80? (I think it will).

3. Will my flash (Sunpak Power Zoom 4000) work on any of these camera?

4. Would you buy a used D80 body off a reputable e-bayer?

The cost difference from a D40 kit to a D40x to me is not that big a deal. If I'm wrong and my current lens will work, then I will go for the D40x. However, if my current lens will not work, as I suspect, on the D40s but it will work on the D80 then I would probably go that way and just get the D80 body to start.

[MarkBarbieri]

The D40 does not have a focus motor in the camera, so it only works with lenses that have focus motors built into them. I think that means that it needs to be an AF-S lens in Nikkor speak.

The D80 has a focus motor, so it will almost certainly work with your lens.

Most people are assuming that virutally all new Nikkor lenses will be AF-S lenses, so this issue shouldn't be a problem with future lenses.

The flash will almost certainly work, but it might not support all of the TTL metering capabilities of the camera. In other words, it would be able to automatically adjust the flash exposure as well as it would with a newer flash.

I would buy a used camera off of eBay, but I would be very cautious about it. For some reason, cameras appear to be one of the most fraud prone items on eBay. Make sure that the seller has plenty of positive feedback, that the feedback is recent, and that the camera is in line with the other sorts of things the person buys and sells. You might also want to look for someone that is selling one locally so that you can do an in-person transaction.

CAUTION: I'm not a Nikon expert, so take my post with a grain of salt.

[ukcatfan]

Try to find a D50. It is cheaper than the D80, but is not crippled like the D40. There are still a few around, but you might have to do some hunting as the supply is getting very low.

Kevin

[tinksdad]

If those were my choices, I'd definitely take the D80!! :thumbsup2 It's going to be more expensive, but then it's MORE camera. Your old lens will work just fine.

Mark is right on about the D40. I don't get Nikon doing that, but it's definitely billed as a starter camera for the move up crowd.

As far as the Sunpak flash, those are pretty reliable flash units. Not positive about the TTL, but I think it will work just fine. It will definitely work as a manual flash.

[MarkBarbieri]

I don't get Nikon doing that, but it's definitely billed as a starter camera for the move up crowd.

Nikon's been moving towards AF-S for a long time. Lens motors have numerous advantages, including full-time manual focusing, faster focusing, the ability to customize the motor to the lens, and quieter focusing. It also makes the body simpler, lighter, and cheaper.

The problem that Nikon faces is how to make the transition. They've been making AF-S lenses for quite a while now, so they've been gaining the advantages that they offer. However, until AF-S lenses reach a critical mass of people's lens collections, they can't drop having the motor in the body.

I'm speculating, but I'm betting that they dropped the body motor in the D40 to cut costs and because they thought that sales of an entry level body would be least impacted by people with lenses that would be made obsolete.

Canon approached the same problem years ago when they initially made the switch to AF. At that time, they designed an entirely new lens mount. That meant that none of their old lenses worked on the new bodies but that the lens mount could be optimized for their new AF system. There were other reasons for the change as well, such as increasing the mount size to allow for wider aperture lenses.

It's an age old problem with technological change. How do you incorporate new features without leaving anyone behind. Eventually, I suspect that Nikon will drop the use of body based focus motors throughout their model line. I have no idea how fast they'll push that. I suspect that even they aren't sure.

[MarkBarbieri]

Dupe

[YEKCIM]

FWIW, there are a few new D50's still around; check pricegrabber. Also, a few factory refurbs. Adorama, for example, has refurbed D50's for $399. I'd seriously consider a refurbed D50 over the D40, unless you figure on buying a bunch of new lenses anyway, in which case the in-body focus motor issue is of less importance.

~YEKCIM

[Master Mason]

unless you figure on buying a bunch of new lenses anyway, in which case the in-body focus motor issue is of less importance.

~YEKCIM

If your going to buy a bunch of new lenses, you could always come over from the Dark Side and get a canon:idea: :eek:

[handicap18]

I too would take a used/referbished D80 or D50 over a new D40 or D40x. For me the focus motor is a big thing. That eliminates a lot of prime lenses including the 50mm f/1.8 (that retails for only $110 or so) and the 85mm f/1.8 along with a bunch of other 3rd party lenses that are excellent and can be found used for a very affordable price.

You are correct that your current lens for the N50 will not work on the D40/40x, but will on a D50/D80 or any other Nikon dSLR.

As for the flash, it will fire when you press the shutter, however, I do not know for sure how it will work in any auto mode. I have an older Quantaray flash that I used briefly with my D50, but it could only be use in manual mode (on the flash that is). It was kind of a pain to work around so I didn't bother with it for long and eventually ended up getting the SB-600 flash.

The D40/40x are excellent camera's. Though I really don't think the D40x is worth the extra $$$ for really just extra MP's. It is a smaller body, much smaller than your N50. It takes great pictures and has excellent high ISO performance. If you don't ever see yourself getting one of the prime lenses or any other older used lenses then the D40 would be fine.

You can still find some good deals on older f/2.8 zooms that only have AF and also quite a few 3rd party f/2.8 primes.

The list of lenses compatable with the D40 is growing. I believe Sigma has 17, not sure about Tamron and Tokina and there are about 30 or so Nikkor AF-S lenses. However, there are hundreds and hundreds of AF lenses out there. Nikon will be making all AF-S lenses in the future, but who knows when they'll start to re-release many of the primes like the 50mm, 85mm, 28mm, 60mm macro f/2.8 and others.

There are a few primes that are AF-S, but the least expensive right now is the 105mm f/2.8 Macro which is about $800. All the others are in the thousands of dollars (long telephoto's at f/2, f/2.8 and f/4.

[Groucho]

Like the others, I'd stick to a D50 or a D80.

For older non-TTL flash units, you have to be careful about voltage, some put out more voltage than the current cameras can handle. As long as you're OK in that, you should be fine. I use a 15+ year old flash occasionally on my DSLR, and just shoot in Manual mode matching up to what the flash recommends on the back. I think I could actually shoot Av just fine with it, but haven't tried.

[KrazyPete]

Just so there is a dissenting voice on the D40, It's does have some upgrades over the D50.

"On the plus side you get ISO 3200 equiv. (HI 1), the ever useful customizable Auto ISO, a larger viewfinder view, shorter shutter lag and viewfinder blackout, a larger LCD monitor, a considerably nicer user interface, SDHC support, a new image processing engine, unlimited JPEG continuous shooting, in-camera retouching (including D-Lighting) and of course a smaller and lighter body. It would not therefore be fair to describe the D40 as a 'dumbed down' D50, far from it, the range of improvements and new features out-weigh those which have been removed or reduce, which would most likely not be missed by the average D40 owner."

Source: DPReview.com (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond40/)

But, if you can spring for the D80 you can have your cake and eat it too... or, keep the old lens and use it too? :thumbsup2

[jonestavern]

[QUOTE=KrazyPete;18738307]Just so there is a dissenting voice on the D40, It's does have some upgrades over the D50.

"and of course a smaller and lighter body"

Source: DPReview.com (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond40/)

I have a D50 and have been very happy. Just for grins I picked up a D40X recently and found it to be too small for my hands. Just another thing to consider.

Chris

[Groucho]

I don't think that anyone thinks that the D40/D40x are necessarily bad cameras, they are generally very good cameras, with one or two enormous faults. Removing that focus motor seems like a really poor decision on their part, it likely won't be noticed by a casual buyer but someone doing their research and realizing that it will affect some lenses that they might want in the future is definitely going to be turned off.

Now, if Nikon suddenly starts releasing a D40f ("f" for FOCUS! ;) ) for the same price, exactly the same as the existing D40, except for a focus motor, then I think it'll be recommended a lot more often.

[ranthony]

...In the 12 or so years I've been using it I've never 'seriously' considered buying another lens. Now, granted, I've been doing the mommy thing as of late and I haven't had near as much time to shoot as I would like, but I'm wondering if I may be better off just trying to dump off my N50/AF lens/flash and put that towards a new purchase. If I do that, then I'd probably go with the D40 and not worry about compatability with my old lens.

There's just something in me that makes me 'uncomfortable' with a D50 because it's been discontinued. It may be irrational, but that's the way it is.

For me, right now, I want great shots of my family. It may be a few years before I'm interested in a bigger lens to get my little guys on the soccer field. I want something that can make great family shots both indoors and out, and with or without flash. I love my little pns Canon A540 for outside shots. It's small, light, and I can carry it around in the diaper bag (amongst all the goodies need for twins) without a care. But forget it when trying to shoot indoors in not so great light. Then, I always go for my N50 but it seams like such a beast in my hands.

Thanks everyone for your advice. I'm heading over to ebay to see what a reasonable price would be to ask for my stuff.

[MarkBarbieri]

I may be better off just trying to dump off my N50/AF lens/flash and put that towards a new purchase

Well if you are going to do that, take a look at the other brand as well. You'll probably still feel most comfortable with Nikon, but this could be a prime opportunity to move up to a Canon. :scared1:

[Master Mason]

If your going to buy a bunch of new lenses, you could always come over from the Dark Side and get a canon:idea: :eek:

Well if you are going to do that, take a look at the other brand as well. You'll probably still feel most comfortable with Nikon, but this could be a prime opportunity to move up to a Canon. :scared1:


See great minds think alike

[KrazyPete]

Well if you are going to do that, take a look at the other brand as well. You'll probably still feel most comfortable with Nikon, but this could be a prime opportunity to move up to a Canon. :scared1:

Board moderator merging "cage match" threads in 5... 4... 3...

:lmao:

[ukcatfan]

For most users, the big question is if you are going to need the 50mm f/1.8 or not. It is a very popular and very cheap lens to get such good results. It will not AF on the D40.

Don't worry about the D50 being discontinued. It has no effect on warranty status or supplies of repair parts. Every camera is discontinued after 12-24 months.

Kevin

[MarkBarbieri]

Every camera is discontinued after 12-24 months.
Scary, isn't it? The Pentax K1000 was around for something like 20 years and they sold millions of them.

[Master Mason]

Scary, isn't it? The Pentax K1000 was around for something like 20 years and they sold millions of them.

yep they sold one to my dad for me.... many many years ago. My oldest has it now and still uses it occasionally

[Groucho]

I think the K1000 was the top-selling 35mm SLR ever. Of course, it helps when they just keep churning them out year after year. :)

As for discontinued... hey, look at the car in your driveway. Unless it's a 2008 model (or in some cases, a 2007 model) - it's been discontinued! Chances are that your house is full of discontinued items, both electronic and otherwise - in fact, I bet that there's little in the house that hasn't been discontinued and replaced with a newer model (or is not replaceable at all.)

The 50mm (and probably some other primes?) would be a big reason for me to not consider the D40. I'm also a big fan of older lenses, and you'll probably find many that are optically superb but won't AF with the D40.

I understand the Nikon idea of "moving forward" with the new setup - but hey, they're the only ones who have made a move like this, and I kind of doubt that we'll see the D80 replacement (or any other higher-end Nikon) losing the focus motor any time soon. I think it's a case of "cutting costs" rather than attempting to move technology forward.

[Master Mason]

I think the K1000 was the top-selling 35mm SLR ever. Of course, it helps when they just keep churning them out year after year. :)

As for discontinued... hey, look at the car in your driveway. Unless it's a 2008 model (or in some cases, a 2007 model) - it's been discontinued! Chances are that your house is full of discontinued items, both electronic and otherwise - in fact, I bet that there's little in the house that hasn't been discontinued and replaced with a newer model (or is not replaceable at all.)

The 50mm (and probably some other primes?) would be a big reason for me to not consider the D40. I'm also a big fan of older lenses, and you'll probably find many that are optically superb but won't AF with the D40.

I understand the Nikon idea of "moving forward" with the new setup - but hey, they're the only ones who have made a move like this, and I kind of doubt that we'll see the D80 replacement (or any other higher-end Nikon) losing the focus motor any time soon. I think it's a case of "cutting costs" rather than attempting to move technology forward.

That's not exactly true, Canon did this many years ago, when they changed the mount, nikon is just trying to do it without compleately abandoning everything.

Its a tough choice if the new technology makes it better to make a corporate decision to dump the old tech and P...s everyone off, or to try and transition it slowly.

[MarkBarbieri]

I understand the Nikon idea of "moving forward" with the new setup - but hey, they're the only ones who have made a move like this, and I kind of doubt that we'll see the D80 replacement (or any other higher-end Nikon) losing the focus motor any time soon. I think it's a case of "cutting costs" rather than attempting to move technology forward.

If they introduce any significant non AF-S lenses in the next few years, I'll agree. If they continue their recent trend of making all lenses AF-S, I think it's a clear sign that they are finally making the transition rather than straddling the fence.

[Groucho]

That's not exactly true, Canon did this many years ago, when they changed the mount, nikon is just trying to do it without compleately abandoning everything.

Its a tough choice if the new technology makes it better to make a corporate decision to dump the old tech and P...s everyone off, or to try and transition it slowly.
Well, I still think it's a "cheap" thing since there's no penalty (apart from a minor weight one) in having a focus motor in the body. It's not like getting rid of it will give room for some new feature, it's just something taken away. There's no benefit to the buyer to not have it. And again, if it were a technology-driven move, I'd think that we'd see on a high-end model as well.

I don't see Canon getting rid of the focus motor and they've been doing motor-focus lenses for a long time. Pentax is starting to release lenses like this and I'm quite sure that they'll keep the motor (especially since they put a high value on using legacy lenses.) I doubt we'll see Sony or Olympus get rid of it, either.

[Master Mason]

Well, I still think it's a "cheap" thing since there's no penalty (apart from a minor weight one) in having a focus motor in the body. It's not like getting rid of it will give room for some new feature, it's just something taken away. There's no benefit to the buyer to not have it. And again, if it were a technology-driven move, I'd think that we'd see on a high-end model as well.

I don't see Canon getting rid of the focus motor and they've been doing motor-focus lenses for a long time. Pentax is starting to release lenses like this and I'm quite sure that they'll keep the motor (especially since they put a high value on using legacy lenses.) I doubt we'll see Sony or Olympus get rid of it, either.


Ok, I might be showing my ignorance, but don't canon lenses have the moter in the lens. Thats what the USM and stuff is about??

And my point was that nikon wants to make the move, but because they don't want to leave everyone at the alter that already has stuff, they leave the motor in the body of the higher end cameras, in the mean time they develope in lens motors on all new lenses, then 5-10 years from now, they can drop it, with very little feedback from their customers as all the currently offered lenses have motors in the bodies.

That is pure speculation on my part, but I think it makes sense.

[MarkBarbieri]

Well, I still think it's a "cheap" thing since there's no penalty (apart from a minor weight one) in having a focus motor in the body. It's not like getting rid of it will give room for some new feature, it's just something taken away. There's no benefit to the buyer to not have it. And again, if it were a technology-driven move, I'd think that we'd see on a high-end model as well.


Ever look inside a DSLR? Real estate is at quite a premium. Anything that isn't needed get's scrapped. Their is more room in larger SLRs, like the pro-sized models, but then they have more features to add. The other problem with a focus motor in the body is that it is one more eletrical device that generates heat and eletrical noise, neither of which is desirable.

It may be my Canon background leading me to the bias, but I really think Nikon plans to drop body motors. I think the question is "when", not "if".

I don't see Canon getting rid of the focus motor
Canon has never had a focus motor in the camera, at least not with the EOS mount.

In the olden days of the 80's, it used to cost about $20 more for a third party lens for a Canon compared with the N/P/M because they had to build in a motor.

[fitzperry]

For most users, the big question is if you are going to need the 50mm f/1.8 or not. It is a very popular and very cheap lens to get such good results. It will not AF on the D40.

Don't worry about the D50 being discontinued. It has no effect on warranty status or supplies of repair parts. Every camera is discontinued after 12-24 months.

Kevin

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Also, the op mentioned that one of her priorities was getting great pictures of her family with or without a flash. The fast primes are a great way to go about the "without a flash" part of it (and in the case of the 50mm f/1.8, a very economical way). As I understand it those won't autofocus on the D40/D40X. If she's willing to do without those lenses, the the D40 sounds like it would be a good choice. If not, then tracking down a D50 or stepping up to the D80 would be worthwhile.

Also, I noticed that the op commented that she had not had the desire to add to her lens collection after using a film slr. Now I never had a film slr, but I suspect that lens envy is somewhat more difficult to avoid in the digital realm. The ability to shoot as many pictures as you want at virtually no cost is maddeningly addictive and causes one to examine every image in precise detail and to yearn for more and more lenses that will surely improve the quality of said images. :rolleyes1 This also means that buying a camera that seems like more camera than you need at the moment isn't necessarily a bad idea.

[Groucho]

I thought that only some Canon lenses have focus motors in the lens?

I know where are different variations of their USM and that some lenses don't have USM, I assumed that those were still focused by a motor in the body. Guess I was wrong? :confused3

[Groucho]

Also, I noticed that the op commented that she had not had the desire to add to her lens collection after using a film slr. Now I never had a film slr, but I suspect that lens envy is somewhat more difficult to avoid in the digital realm.
I think lens envy grows significantly in the internet world... I survived just fine with three lenses on my film SLR without having big cravings for more, but this was back in the days of BBSs, and I didn't start reading photography stuff on the net until I got serious in the digital realm, and now I have quite a few lenses that I'd very much like to add to my collection. :) Ignorance (of other lenses and of seeing pictures others have taken with those lenses) is bliss!

[handicap18]

I think lens envy grows significantly in the internet world... I survived just fine with three lenses on my film SLR without having big cravings for more, but this was back in the days of BBSs, and I didn't start reading photography stuff on the net until I got serious in the digital realm, and now I have quite a few lenses that I'd very much like to add to my collection. :) Ignorance (of other lenses and of seeing pictures others have taken with those lenses) is bliss!

I survivied for 15+ years with just 2 lenses for my film slr, but I think that has more to do with not being educated enough to know better. I would read the occassional Shutterbug Mag or Popular Photography Mag, but that was about it. I didn't really know as much about the primes. When I took photo classes it was in high school and when your 16, 17, 18 years old that kind of stuff doesn't necessarily set in unless your doing it all the time which I wasn't. Had I known enough about the 50mm f/1.8 back in the early 90's when I started up again with an slr I would have gotten one then. In fact at one time one of the places I work had an incentive going on that you could earn what was called "Hunt Dollars". There is a huge local photo place called Hunts Photo & Video. I did pretty well and earned around $100 or so. I went and inquired about a zoom which was priced around $300 and passed. Not wanting to spend $200 at that time. Instead I bought a few photo albums, refills, film and other little stuff. Back then (early/mid 90's) I probably could have gotten an 85mm f/1.8 for $100 of my own money and combined it with the store money I earned. Or even gotten the 50mm f/1.8 without spending any of my own money. But I didn't even know about those lenses then. :confused3

Your right about it being an internet thing, but its more of an opportunity to be educated now and research is so much easier. That in turn leads to more lens envy along with other accessories.

While boards like this one have been a blessing to my photography progress, at the same time it has also been a nightmare for my wallet. 15 years ago there was nothing like this.

[Groucho]

While boards like this one have been a blessing to my photography progress, at the same time it has also been a nightmare for my wallet. 15 years ago there was nothing like this.
Well, there was CompuServe, GEnie, etc... I'm sure they had photography sections but I was more likely to be hanging out in the cars sections back then.

In a pile of old Disney park stuff that I recently discovered, I found some WDW trip info printed out from CompuServe, it was back in 1989 or so, printed with a dot matrix on tractor-feed paper. Ahh, those were the days... or maybe not...!

[fitzperry]

I think lens envy grows significantly in the internet world... I survived just fine with three lenses on my film SLR without having big cravings for more, but this was back in the days of BBSs, and I didn't start reading photography stuff on the net until I got serious in the digital realm, and now I have quite a few lenses that I'd very much like to add to my collection. :) Ignorance (of other lenses and of seeing pictures others have taken with those lenses) is bliss!

Well said. And the op has already found this board so she's in for it. :rotfl2:

[ranthony]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho
I think lens envy grows significantly in the internet world... I survived just fine with three lenses on my film SLR without having big cravings for more, but this was back in the days of BBSs, and I didn't start reading photography stuff on the net until I got serious in the digital realm, and now I have quite a few lenses that I'd very much like to add to my collection. Ignorance (of other lenses and of seeing pictures others have taken with those lenses) is bliss!

Well said. And the op has already found this board so she's in for it.

I was at Wal-Mart today using the electronics department as a 'short-cut' to aviod the toy department. Well, I'm sure I looked like my head was on a swivel when I noticed the D40 on display. Of course I had to stop and pick it up and then I asked the clerk to show me the lens from the box under the counter (the camera was on display w/o lens). Is it just me, or is the lens really light? My other stuff seems so much heavier and I don't think the lenses themselves are that much different in size. I then began to think...hmmmm, I wonder what this would feel like with the 18-200 on it. :scared1: I politely thanked the clerk and high tailed it outta-there!

[woodlandsparty]

I'm horrible....I have been looking at these cameras forever now. And....I just can't seem to make up my mind. So...I'm hoping some of you can give me the pro's and cons of each....maybe something that I'm not catching that will help sway my decision. I want to stay with either Canon or Nikon...and these 2 models are the ones within my price range....though I am somewhat considering the D200 as well but I'm not sure the added price is worth the few enhancements over the D80.

I don't have any lenses or anything, so I'm not yet loyal to one brand or the other. And, I have small hands, so the ergonomics of both feel fine to me. I've played with both, and I didn't really seem to lean towards one more than the other except that the Nikon felt more 'sturdy' to me....maybe just because it was a little heavier though.

XTi......battery life is about 1/2 of what the D80 is, it's lower cost than the D80 so that's a plus, and ughh....just the camera being a 'Rebel'....it seems SO *consumer* to me...kind of like buying a silver camera (sorry to those that own them!)...it just seems not cool. Which shouldn't be a big deal to me, but for some reason it is.

D80...the main drawback for me here is the added cost over the XTi and it seems like you don't get much more bang for your buck over the XTi.

So....please help sway me in one direction or the other!!!!

[ukcatfan]

If you are throwing a possible D200 in, then why not the 30D? It will not give you the same "feel" as the XTi that you do not like.

Any reason you are considering only the two brands when your budget is as high as it is? The Pentax K10D, Sony Alpha, Sigma whatever, and whatever comparable Olympus could end up being a better fit for you. I think I also heard something about Panasonic releasing something based on the D80, but I do not remember too much and it might be expensive and/or a while until it is out. I am pretty sure that the Fuji models are at the pro level only, so they would likely be too much.

Kevin

[YEKCIM]

Both are excellent cameras, from everything I have read here and elsewhere, so whichever you choose, you'll make a good decison: win-win!

That said, I would encourage you to look beyond the camera body to the available lenses and other accessories. A dSLR is a *system*, not just a camera and the lenses in particular are as important as the camera body, if not more so.

Depending on what kinds of photography you do, you might find that one brand's lens lineup suits you better than the other.

~YEKCIM

[jann1033]

I'm horrible....I have been looking at these cameras forever now. And....I just can't seem to make up my mind. So...I'm hoping some of you can give me the pro's and cons of each....maybe something that I'm not catching that will help sway my decision. I want to stay with either Canon or Nikon...and these 2 models are the ones within my price range....though I am somewhat considering the D200 as well but I'm not sure the added price is worth the few enhancements over the D80.

I don't have any lenses or anything, so I'm not yet loyal to one brand or the other. And, I have small hands, so the ergonomics of both feel fine to me. I've played with both, and I didn't really seem to lean towards one more than the other except that the Nikon felt more 'sturdy' to me....maybe just because it was a little heavier though.

XTi......battery life is about 1/2 of what the D80 is, it's lower cost than the D80 so that's a plus, and ughh....just the camera being a 'Rebel'....it seems SO *consumer* to me...kind of like buying a silver camera (sorry to those that own them!)...it just seems not cool. Which shouldn't be a big deal to me, but for some reason it is.

D80...the main drawback for me here is the added cost over the XTi and it seems like you don't get much more bang for your buck over the XTi.

So....please help sway me in one direction or the other!!!!

can't really help you out since i think either are good choices. but to ease your mind the canon slr has been called rebel since i think the 90s or so in other words over 20 yrs, so i don't think most people would think of it as anything but a slr. ( dslr) i got a canon since i had some lenses and never really considered anything else due to that and have liked it fine...for me the nikon was too big for my hands anyway...i'd also look into the next model for each brand and see if either has something you'd really want over the other one or how the price is as you upgrade bodies.. it used to be nikons were a couple hundred more across the board but not sure if that holds true still. also maybe check out the lenses and see prices and how they are reviewed.

[Steve's Girl]

I agree with YEKCIM on looking beyond the camera body. Last fall, I had narrowed it down to these two models and ended up with the D80 because I liked the Nikon lens options better than Canon's. I purchased my D80 with the 18-135 kit lens and have since upgraded to the 18-200VR. Both are excellent lenses. I love the D80 and do not regret the choice at all. Kit lenses often are not that great, but the Nikon 18-135 is an incredibly good lens for the focal length and price range. Very versatile and very sharp!

I briefly looked at the D200, but that was more than I wanted to spend and quite a bit bigger than the D80. So, I don't have an educated opinion on that other than I could not imagine carrying that thing around my neck all day at Disney!

[photo_chick]

can't really help you out since i think either are good choices. but to ease your mind the canon slr has been called rebel since i think the 90s or so in other words over 20 yrs, so i don't think most people would think of it as anything but a slr. ( dslr)


The first Rebel came out around 1990. It was marketed as a consumer level camera in the EOS line. Remember the commercials with Andre Agassi? Does that make them less professional cameras? Some think so. DO I , no. I have really small hands and honestly can't hold the larger cameras easily. I have had a Rebel since the mid 90's.

Now OP... which camera is right for you? Before you make a decision based on stats, have you been to the store and held them? Also I agree at looking at the lenses and other accessories. This would sway me away from Nikon myself, probably slightly away from Canon and more towards Pentax if I were shopping right now. But all the DSLR's out today I think have good and bad points. It comes down to what fits you. Although there are some really good strong opinions around here on which is the best!!!!

[KrazyPete]

I was in the same place you are a few months ago. I had been shooting a Canon film SLR but in the end I decided on the D80. One, the major factors for me was the feel of the camera. The D80 fit my hand better, I liked the weight better, and I liked the tactile feedback from the controls better. I think the XTi is a great camera but in my hands it feels like a toy compared to the D80. The other major factor that swayed me was a few side by side comparisons of similar photos online. Reviewers shot the same subject with each camera and similar lenses. My wife and I both agreed that we liked the color from the Nikon better. That's completely a personal preference though.

The DPReview of the D80 compares it directly with the XTI and seems to give the Nikon the edge.

Source DPReview.com: Nikon D80 compared to... (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond80/page21.asp)

Key points for me included: A better viewfinder, better metering, Spot metering, LCD on top of the camera

Since I've had the camera now I've really grown to appreciate that the D80 has two command dials. The next time you are in a camera store flip it over to manual, watch the light meter in the viewfinder and play with those two dials. For me, being to able to scroll around my aperture and shutter speed at the same time is a load of fun. I was used to Canon's setup before and I pretty much stayed in one of the priority modes all the time. I'm doing much more shooting in full manual now.

[YEKCIM]

I purchased my D80 with the 18-135 kit lens and have since upgraded to the 18-200VR. Both are excellent lenses. I love the D80 and do not regret the choice at all. Kit lenses often are not that great, but the Nikon 18-135 is an incredibly good lens for the focal length and price range. Very versatile and very sharp!

I briefly looked at the D200, but that was more than I wanted to spend and quite a bit bigger than the D80. So, I don't have an educated opinion on that other than I could not imagine carrying that thing around my neck all day at Disney!

I have the D50 and it is all the camera I need, and way more than I've been able to master, at this point (had it since January 07). I have the 18-135 and expect it to be my mainstay, due to the sharpness that Steve's Girl mentioned (it's as sharp as my fifty, if you can believe that), plus the added range over the typical kit lens, which generally top out at 55mm or 70mm. The ultimate "kit lens", IMO, is the 18-200VR, but it is one expensive and hard to find piece of gear. List price is $750, if I recall correctly, but they are going for $900+ ONLINE!

BTW, Steve's Girl, Mrs. YEKCIM is planning on taking her D200 to The World in July and I don't envy her lugging it around in that heat all day. I'll be quite satisfied with my D50, thank you very much. My main concern is keeping her mitts off my 70-300VR at Animal Kingdom!

~YEKCIM

[woodlandsparty]

I purchased my D80 with the 18-135 kit lens and have since upgraded to the 18-200VR. Both are excellent lenses. I love the D80 and do not regret the choice at all. Kit lenses often are not that great, but the Nikon 18-135 is an incredibly good lens for the focal length and price range. Very versatile and very sharp!

Thanks for the feedback on the 18-135....that is the kit lens that I was going to go with if I went with the D80. Glad to hear from a couple of sources that it is a sharp lens....I was a little afraid since most feedback I've heard about kit lenses is that they lack sharpness.

[ukcatfan]

Thanks for the feedback on the 18-135....that is the kit lens that I was going to go with if I went with the D80. Glad to hear from a couple of sources that it is a sharp lens....I was a little afraid since most feedback I've heard about kit lenses is that they lack sharpness.

A little clarification for you.

The 18-135 is not a "kit" lens. The only "kit" lenses that I know of that are not 18-55mm are the Sony(18-70mm I think) and the Olympus(14-45mm or something close to that). Other lenses are sometimes sold in a set with the camera body, but that does not make them a "kit" lens.

Kevin

[YEKCIM]

A little clarification for you.

The 18-135 is not a "kit" lens. The only "kit" lenses that I know of that are not 18-55mm are the Sony(18-70mm I think) and the Olympus(14-45mm or something close to that). Other lenses are sometimes sold in a set with the camera body, but that does not make them a "kit" lens.

Kevin

Beg to differ, just a bit, for the OP's benefit. The D80 is sold in three configurations that I'm aware of: 1) Body only 2) Body + 18-55 3) Body + 18-135. Initially, the 18-135 was available ONLY in a kit with the D80; fortunately, by the time I bought my D50's, that was no longer the case.

~YEKCIM

[KrazyPete]

A little clarification for you.

The 18-135 is not a "kit" lens. The only "kit" lenses that I know of that are not 18-55mm are the Sony(18-70mm I think) and the Olympus(14-45mm or something close to that). Other lenses are sometimes sold in a set with the camera body, but that does not make them a "kit" lens.

Kevin

I have the 18-135mm. It came in the same box with the camera body. If that's not a kit lens then what is? :confused3

[Anewman]

Canon user here so consider that when reading my opinion.

Is the D80 a better camera? YES
Is it $230 better? Not IMO

Seriously if I had to buy today, it would be the SONY A100. Run to the Circuit City Website and purchase it for $606(dont know when the sale ends), then choose from the entire MINOLTA lens selection...

EDIT Circuit City also has the Sony with the 18-70mm "KIT LENS";) for an Even $700 and is available for pick up in store(24 minutes) if you purchase online.

[ukcatfan]

Beg to differ, just a bit, for the OP's benefit. The D80 is sold in three configurations that I'm aware of: 1) Body only 2) Body + 18-55 3) Body + 18-135. Initially, the 18-135 was available ONLY in a kit with the D80; fortunately, by the time I bought my D50's, that was no longer the case.

~YEKCIM

I have the 18-135mm. It came in the same box with the camera body. If that's not a kit lens then what is? :confused3

Like I said before, they may sell other lenses together with the body as a kit, but that does not make that lens the "kit" lens that popular photography culture refers to when someone says something like, "kit lenses are always less sharp". Just being packaged in a box with a body does not make the lens perform worse than if you bought it alone.

Kevin

[ktulu]

You're going to be happy with either one I'd imagine. If the XTi feels small in your hands, buy a battery grip (my plan). I went with canon cause 1) I like that the make their own sensors and 2) I have thoughts about moving to a full frame sensor, although they are only thoughts at this point :)

[jann1033]

the 30d kit lens is the 28-135 IS, i know some of the other canon bodies come with other kit lenses ( like the 5d can come with one i can't think of right now)
just to clarify http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kit_lens

[Master Mason]

The problem in comparing the cameras to me is that they don't line up side by side

to me the d80 falls between the xt and the 30d
the d200 falls between the 30d and whatever you want to put over it

They don't line up accross the board, which is why the prices don't line up either.

Pick the one you like and go with it.

and I just glanced at the comments about the kit lenses, but you can now get the 30D with the 28-135 IS as the Kit or the 5D with a 24-105 IS as the kit. It is just marketing.

[YEKCIM]

Thanks for the feedback on the 18-135....that is the kit lens that I was going to go with if I went with the D80. Glad to hear from a couple of sources that it is a sharp lens....I was a little afraid since most feedback I've heard about kit lenses is that they lack sharpness.

The pic that sold me on the 18-135 is from the dpreview D80 review. Check out #13 of 40 (kids choir group) from the reveiw pix: http://www.dpreview.com/gallery/nikond80_samples/

To see how good the lens really is, click on the link to the full res file below the pic.

~YEKCIM

[handicap18]

The problem in comparing the cameras to me is that they don't line up side by side

to me the d80 falls between the xt and the 30d
the d200 falls between the 30d and whatever you want to put over it

They don't line up accross the board, which is why the prices don't line up either.

Pick the one you like and go with it.

and I just glanced at the comments about the kit lenses, but you can now get the 30D with the 28-135 IS as the Kit or the 5D with a 24-105 IS as the kit. It is just marketing.

I agree Gregg. The D80 and XTi are not on the same level. Kind of like comparing a Toyota Camry and Honda Civic.

Both camera's are great. From the review's I've read the D80 seems to get the nod over the XTi by about half a star on average. The biggest difference between the 2 is the size. You really have to hold each one in your hands and feel what is comfortable to you.

As for the lens, I too have the 18-135mm and am VERY pleased with its sharpness as well as its focal length. It has 2 of the 3 things you want in a zoom, long focal length & excellent quality. Only lacking the wide aperture, but you can't have everything.

As kit lenses go it is awesome. It is "officially" the kit lens for the D80, just as the 18-70mm was the kit lens for the D70/70s and the 18-55mm is the kit lens for the D50 & D40/40x and the 18-200 is the kit lens for the D200 (though it still is hard to find the 18-200). Fortunately they are all interchangable, but that is how Nikon had originally set it up.

[Groucho]

Well, the D80 is certainly designed to compete at a higher level than the XTi... there aren't exact matchups, but it's really more like D80 vs 30D vs K10D vs Alpha, and D40 vs XTi vs K100D vs E500. The Alpha probably straddling the two groups more than any other.

Unsurprisingly, I'd unquestionably take a D80 over an XTi. But I'd take a K10D over either, for a good bit less money than a D80, and approx. $100 more than an XTi.

Ultimately, you're very rarely find someone who doesn't love their DSLR; you'll almost certainly be happy no matter what you buy.

[YEKCIM]

Ultimately, you're very rarely find someone who doesn't love their DSLR; you'll almost certainly be happy no matter what you buy.

Excellent point, and well illustrated here, not only by words, but by results. Well said, sir.

~YEKCIM

[Anewman]

Well, the D80 is certainly designed to compete at a higher level than the XTi... there aren't exact matchups, but it's really more like D80 vs 30D vs K10D vs Alpha, and D40 vs XTi vs K100D vs E500. The Alpha probably straddling the two groups more than any other.

Unsurprisingly, I'd unquestionably take a D80 over an XTi. But I'd take a K10D over either, for a good bit less money.

Ultimately, you're very rarely find someone who doesn't love their DSLR; you'll almost certainly be happy no matter what you buy.

To be accurate the K10D is not a good bit less money than the XTI, even after rebate it(the camera) is still about $100 more expensive compared to the XTI. Once you start adding lenses and other stuff it may change depending on what your preferences/needs are but that comparison has an infinite amount of variables.

[Groucho]

Whoops, correct, I meant cheaper than the D80. I'll edit my original message to make that more clear.

[jann1033]

aww, isn't it a relief to have a "what camera to buy" thread that is nice and peaceful and i'm not afraid to open :thumbsup2 ;) :goodvibes

[ktulu]

aww, isn't it a relief to have a "what camera to buy" thread that is nice and peaceful and i'm not afraid to open :thumbsup2 ;) :goodvibes

Especially knowing we are right, being Canon shooters and all :rolleyes1

:stir:

[jann1033]

the only thing i would disagree with is the comparison of the d80 and xti, they are almost identical from what i see with the exception of spot metering and 11 vs 9 pt af in the d80 and i don't know what it's made of. the startup, synch ,shutter speed, fps, mp, etc are virtually identical.:confused3 and both are way beyond the d40 ( their "entry level" camera like canon's rebel xti is their entry level camera) as is even the rebel xt. the xt might not be equal to the d80 but the xti is pretty comparable.

[Groucho]

I think it's more than an on-paper thing. A D80 should have a more high-end "feel" to it. This review (http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/digital_rebel_xti-review/index.shtml) mentions D80 vs XTi:
"I much prefer the D80's design and build quality, but it is more expensive than the XTi. If you want that nicer body and a real LCD info display, then it may be worth spending more to get the D80."

You'll also get some of the features you're missing, like spot metering... and a 2-second timer (I had no idea the XTi doesn't have a simple 2-second timer? :confused3 a very mysterious decision by Canon)...

This article (http://www.cameralabs.com/features/10Megapixel_DSLR_test/page6.shtml) compared the D80, XTi, and Alpha:
"The Nikon D80 is arguably the best camera of the three. It beats the 400D / XTi and A100 in almost every respect, sporting superior design and build quality, the biggest, brightest viewfinder, more sophisticated AF, greater customisation and a secondary status screen which many will find easier to read in bright light. While some test results were very close, the D80 also resolved the greatest detail and many will prefer its handling of high ISO noise to the Canon.

In these traditional photographic respects, the D80 is comfortably ahead of the Canon 400D / XTi and Sony A100, but there’s one key difference: it’s also comfortably more expensive, especially when you add the cost of a lens."

I think there's a lot more to the higher-end cameras than just the numbers like how many pictures they can take a second or megapixel count. (How many XTi owners wouldn't happily trade for a 30D? ;) )

[Anewman]

There is a Reason product lines do not match up to the industry leaders(Canon in this case).

Because other manufacturers do not want them to.

Nikon likes to be able to straddle the lines and compare the D80 to the 30D in some areas and then compare it to the Rebel line in others.
And they do it in reverse too when price is being debated they compare the XTi to the D40 and when it turns to other areas they then choose to compare the XTI with the D80.



Car companys do that all the time, "more head room than a CAMRY, and more power than a Corolla."(not an actual claim)

[go cowboys]

I am not a pro, but I totally understand the posts about the feel of the xti vs the D80. I bought the xti at the end of 06 at my local photo store (epperson photo in OK) and paid right at 1000.00 for the body and two lenses. I HATED it from the beginning. It was silver - not at all what I thought was a "real" camera. It was smaller than the D80 which felt inadequate in my hands. I was almost embarrassed to carry it. I actually carried my little 800is point and shoot more. I felt like I had been "sold" the xti when what I wanted was the D80. Anyway after one month and very few photos, I was allowed to exchange it for the D80 and now I use or play with it almost daily. I can not speak on the tech features of the two, but I can say that I am happier with the one I wanted than I was with the one I saved 200 dollars buying.

I highly recommend the photo shop I used if you want to buy on line. They really took care of this customer.

Anyway, get the one you want. They are so much alike technically, I say get the one that feels the best.

[YEKCIM]

...after one month and very few photos, I was allowed to exchange it for the D80 and now I use or play with it almost daily.

What lens(es) did you end up with, with the D80? Any others on your "wish list"?

~YEKCIM

[go cowboys]

What lens(es) did you end up with, with the D80? Any others on your "wish list"?

~YEKCIM

I bought the 18 - 135 "kit"/boxed set/whatever. It is good for my purposes right now but I would like the 70-300 VR lens. I can not swing the 1600.00 price tag yet but I am hopeful. right now am looking for the sb600 as I think a good flash would be very beneficial.

[YEKCIM]

I bought the 18 - 135 "kit"/boxed set/whatever. It is good for my purposes right now but I would like the 70-300 VR lens. I can not swing the 1600.00 price tag yet but I am hopeful. right now am looking for the sb600 as I think a good flash would be very beneficial.

The 70-300VR is about $500 online. Is your $1600 figure for the lens alone, or is it for what you already have (D80 + 18-135) plus the 70-300VR?

~YEKCIM

[brack]

I can only tell you what I chose but I will say that I disagree with some of your assertions about the XTi. Battery life and handling/feel can be overcome with the battery pack.

I have the XTi and the original Digital Rebel. Both are very good cameras. If you picked the XTi you would have very little to regret ever.

[Zoesmama03]

Go to a place like BestBuy that will allow you hold and try them out. If the battery is gone or dead ask associate to put one in. If you get a good one they may even put a memory card in and let you try it out and print even, one did that for me before anyway. :)

But go and hold them. I found that I much prefered the feel of the Nikon over the Canon. I was always a Canon girl but I've become a Nikon fan now especially since getting my little point & shoot Nikon a year ago. ;) I'm looking at getting the D40x or D50 but may go for the D80 if I can though I'm like you and would love the D200 I think I will start small and then go up later on.

[YEKCIM]

I'm looking at getting the D40x or D50 but may go for the D80 if I can though I'm like you and would love the D200 I think I will start small and then go up later on.

If you want a D50, you'd better move quickly. They are just about gone, although I have seen some pretty good online deals ($399) on factory refurbs.

~YEKCIM

[Zoesmama03]

They still had some at on site but that was a few months ago.

I'll probably end up with a D80 as the price comes down.


I'm thinking of getting it at bhphoto.com when I saw they had body(D50) and I could get a 50mm 1.8 lens for $500. :thumbsup2 Now maybe they have sold out since. :sad1:

I'll see what is available when I get the money saved. Actually thinking of getting the N80 or F80 film SLR first because I'm wanting to take a class in August.

[Zoesmama03]

Dang they are gone there too. :sad1:

[go cowboys]

The 70-300VR is about $500 online. Is your $1600 figure for the lens alone, or is it for what you already have (D80 + 18-135) plus the 70-300VR?

~YEKCIM

you are right, I must have looked at a different lens. I saw them on bhphoto for less thn 500.00, Is it a great lens? Do I need it? What do you think about a flash?

[YEKCIM]

you are right, I must have looked at a different lens. I saw them on bhphoto for less thn 500.00, Is it a great lens? Do I need it? What do you think about a flash?

I suggest you use what you have, for now, and see if you think you need a longer lens, before plunking down $500. If you do decide that you need to go longer then, yes, the 70-300VR is a very good lens but, at $500, it should be. Also suggest you see how the onboard flash does, before investing in an accessory (SB600/SB800) flash.

~YEKCIM

[go cowboys]

I suggest you use what you have, for now, and see if you think you need a longer lens, before plunking down $500. If you do decide that you need to go longer then, yes, the 70-300VR is a very good lens but, at $500, it should be. Also suggest you see how the onboard flash does, before investing in an accessory (SB600/SB800) flash.

~YEKCIM

what about the 70 - 200 vr that Ken Rockwell is so high on? Is there an advantage to it over the 70-300 other than weight? I have used the flash some and although it is OK, I think that I would benefit from a real flash for pics of school programs or my sons basketball games.

I saw your zoo photos on another thread and I want to be able to take good photos like those. What software do you use for editing and storage?

[KrazyPete]

The $1600 Nikon lens was probably the 70-200mm F/2.8 VR. That's the one I'm saving for. :thumbsup2

I've read good reviews of the 70-300mm VR but it's a much slower lens at F/4.5-5.6. I think the lens Ken Rockwell, and a lot of other Nikon shooters, rave about is the 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 VR. It will set you back about $750 if you can find it in stock.

[YEKCIM]

I saw your zoo photos on another thread and I want to be able to take good photos like those. What software do you use for editing and storage?

Thank you for the kind words. The zoo shots were made with the 70-300VR, and edited using (don't laugh) Picasa, although I'm seriously thinking of buying Paint Shop Pro X, for a little more fine tuning ability. For storage, I have a 300 gig external hard drive (which I'm quickly filling up, btw).

The 70-200VR is, I'm sure, a great lens, but of course, it is pricey. So far, the 70-300VR has been adequate for my needs, although f/2.8 would be really nice.

~YEKCIM

[photo_chick]

I can only tell you what I chose but I will say that I disagree with some of your assertions about the XTi. Battery life and handling/feel can be overcome with the battery pack.

I have the XTi and the original Digital Rebel. Both are very good cameras. If you picked the XTi you would have very little to regret ever.

I have the XT myself and it is a perfect fit for me as I have small hands. While I drool over the full frame sensor of the 5D, I don't see myself stepping up soon becasue it is too large for me... I don't see the need for me to step up to the 30D with the way I am shooting right now either. Besides, it too feels bulky and awkward in my hands.

Not to mention my DH would kill me if I spent that much right now!!!!!!

[YEKCIM]

Dang they are gone there too. :sad1:

Adorama has factory refurb D50 body for $399. Their site does not specifically say "in stock" or "out of stock", so you might want to call first, if interested, to verify that they are in stock.

B&H has used D50's ("Condition 10") for $399 body only or with kit lens for $499.

~YEKCIM

[Master Mason]

I HATED it from the beginning. It was silver - not at all what I thought was a "real" camera. It was smaller than the D80 which felt inadequate in my hands. I was almost embarrassed to carry it. I actually carried my little 800is point and shoot more. I felt like I had been "sold" the xti when what I wanted was the D80.

I would say your experience with the XT was doomed from the very begining since you wanted the D80.

Mine is silver, I wanted black, but at the time I got the silver almost a 100 bucks cheaper, and for 100 bucks I can certainly carry a silver camera over black. But that was my choice.

I still say that comaparing the XT to the D80 is not an even comparison. The products don't line up evenly.

But let this be a lesson to everyone, never be "sold" on a camera by anyone but yourself, as your the one that will be using it.

[photo_chick]

But let this be a lesson to everyone, never be "sold" on a camera by anyone but yourself, as your the one that will be using it.


Amen! The right camera for me might not be the right camera for someone else. Getting advice is one thing, but take the time to find the right one for you.

[brack]

But let this be a lesson to everyone, never be "sold" on a camera by anyone but yourself, as your the one that will be using it.

:thumbsup2

[joellyn23]

I bought the D80 with 2 Tamron lenses (Zoom Telephoto AF 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 LD Macro Autofocus Lens for Nikon AF-D and AF 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6).

I pretty much always have the larger lens on as I mostly take photos at my children's soccer games.

I saw that there is a 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF Macro Autofocus Lens made by Tamron. I really like this idea because I shouldn't have to change my lens for my purposes.

(Again -- I'm a complete novice -- I love the image quality of the D80, but I only use the automatic settings - I don't really know much about photography in general)

I'm confused by the Di LD vs LD. Is it worth it to spend an additional $400 for the new lens (or $189 to get the 70-300mm Di lens vs my 75-300mm LD lens).

Does this make any sense or am I confusing you too?

Thanks, in advance, for any input.

[handicap18]

The problem with going to the 1 lens does it all thing, is that you lose a lot of different things to gain the convenience. For example, the quality of the lens isn't quite as good and its also slower, espeically at the long end. The 28-300 is an f/3.5-6.3 which means that its widest aperture is f/3.5, but only at the 28mm end and maybe to about 40mm. f/3.5 isn't to bad, however, the f/6.3 at the long end is very small. That will probably be from about 220mm or so to 300mm. It 1/3 of a stop smaller than the 75-300mm f/4-5.6 at the 300mm end. For both lenses I would say that f/4 around 75mm is probably the same. (f/# tells you the size of the hole in the lens that lets light in, works like the pupil of your eye. The bigger the hole {since the numbers are fractions, the small the number, ie: 1/5.6 is bigger than 1/6.3} the more light is let in and will allow for a faster shutter speed. Faster shutter speed means being able to get more of a stop in the action instead of slight blur's of the legs and/or arms of the players.) This is why you see the camera people at sporting events with those BIG HUGE lenses. They have a bigger hole, therefor needing the lens to be big to accomodate that size hole. Many of them may be the same 300mm length, but their f/number is probably f/2.8 compared to the f/5.6. That is a HUGE difference in size. Kind of like comparing the size of a 1/2 dollar to a dime.

Typically the 1 lens does it all lens will be slower to auto focus and may hunt for a focus more often than a smaller range lens. Thus you may lose more shots.

I wouldn't worry to much about the XR Di LD stuff.

If anything you'd be better off saving a bit more and getting the Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S VR lens. It is very sharp, focus' very quick and has the added bonus of VR (Vibration Reduction). What the VR will do in your shooting scenerio is help keep the lens still, not getting extra blur from camera shake. That is the biggest reason I bought this lens. 1/2 my pics at the 300mm end were wasted because of camera shake. Holding a camera steady at the 300mm isn't all that easy. VR makes it much easier.

This may be a bit more information that you wanted, so I hope I didn't confuse you any further.

Keep asking questions. We'll help as best we can.

[Ratpack]

Well, I knew there was a reason I love DW. While at the beach this weekend, she said she wanted to use the D50 more and perhaps we should just get me another camera so we each have one. Thanks dear!!! So my question is, do I get the D80 or spend more and get the D200? The D50 has been great and I haven't even come close to using it's full potential so I am leaning towards the D80 for price, but I hate to buy it and then realize the D200 would have been a better choice. Help me decide please!!!

[tinksdad]

I use the D200 and it's quite the camera!! Lots of features that I will "grow into" as I hone my skills as a photographer. The D80 wasn't out yet, and I choose the D200 since it was almost as capable as the pro D2X but less than a third of the price.

If your comfortable using the D50 then the D80 wouldn't be a huge difference in handling and features, but will still have lots to challenge you!

check out the D80 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond80/)


check out the D200 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond200/)

[DebºoºS]

I use the D200. It's great!!!! I have older Nikon SLR lenses that I'm now able to use once again. It has so many neat features that I'm still learning. The Bert Sirkin cheatsheet helps as a quick reference.The other day I was reading it before the LK show started & a man leaned over to say "wow that's complicated" LOL There's a learning curve but you're already a Nikon DSLR owner so the jump will be easy for you.
Either way you'll be getting a quality camera with years of enjoyment and super pics. Good luck with your decision:)

posting from hot hot hot WDW:cloud9:

[Furgus]

Just a small note, the D80 and the D50 both use SD cards, and the D200 uses CF cards. Not a huge deal cause memory is so cheap, but just something look into.

[AZ JazzyJ]

How did that old saying go? "You can have my D200 when you pry it out of my cold dead fingers" or something like that.

Jeff

[tinksdad]

How did that old saying go? "You can have my D200 when you pry it out of my cold dead fingers" or something like that.

Jeff

Actually, I was thinking more like: "You can have my D200 when you give me a DX3!!":woohoo:

[handicap18]

Its really going to depend on your needs. The D80 is a great camera. Great image quality and great features. The D200 is more camera. Great image quality and even move features.

For me personally, my next upgrade from my D50 will be some sort of D200 evolved body 5 or so years down the road. The biggest difference for me is the D200's 5 fpc vs the 3 fps on the D80 (only 2.5 fps on the D50). My kids are starting to ge more active and I also like to attend a lot of summer league baseball games.

There are a few threads about upgrading from a D50 to a D200 over at nikonians.org. Check the forum area and go under D100/D200 Users Group.

Also those that posted there that had already owned a D50 or D80 said the learning curve up to the D200 wasn't very steep.

[El Nebuloso]

The only thing I can say here is that if you are comfortable with operating in the more manual modes then go for the D200, as it doesn't provide a fully automatic mode. Personally I am planning to (eventually) replace my beloved D50 with the next generation D200.

[fitzperry]

My primary beef with the D70 has always been noise, and I've read rave reviews about the D80's noise control. I do prefer to shoot in natural light whenever possible, so the ability to use higher ISO's, which I avoid now, would be really nice. But is it that much better?

The higher megapixel count is pretty insignificant to me, as are most of the other differences between the two cameras--there are a few features I think would be nice but not sufficient by themselves to cause me to spend that much money.

What do y'all think?

[handicap18]

I have a friend who upgraded from a D70s to a D80 late last year. He really likes the D80. It does have much better noise control over the D70, not quite as good as the D50, but it does have higher MP's and pretty much the same features as the D70. The 2.5" LCD is HUGE compared to the 1.8" on the D70. Image Quality has gotten very good reviews on the D80. The only real drawback is that the D80 takes SD cards vs Compact Flash on the D70 so you will have to get a few new cards, though SD cards are less expensive than CF. $20-25 for a 2GB SD card.

[Steve's Girl]

I have the D80 and have been very happy with it. But, since I have never used a D70, I can't say whether or not the upgrade would be worth it based solely on noise control. I think I would consider a faster lens first before upgrading the body. Tamron and Sigma have some very nice lenses that are 2.8 throughout the whole range and they are priced pretty reasonably in comparison to a new camera body. I also use Noiseware on anything above ISO 800 and that really helps, too.

[fitzperry]

It does have much better noise control over the D70, not quite as good as the D50, but it does have higher MP's and pretty much the same features as the D70. The 2.5" LCD is HUGE compared to the 1.8" on the D70. Image Quality has gotten very good reviews on the D80.

Why is the D50 still better wrt noise? I thought they were the same sensor. That big lcd is really cool.

The only real drawback is that the D80 takes SD cards vs Compact Flash on the D70 so you will have to get a few new cards, though SD cards are less expensive than CF. $20-25 for a 2GB SD card.

I'd just swipe them from dh. He seems to have a huge collection.

[fitzperry]

I have the D80 and have been very happy with it. But, since I have never used a D70, I can't say whether or not the upgrade would be worth it based solely on noise control. I think I would consider a faster lens first before upgrading the body. Tamron and Sigma have some very nice lenses that are 2.8 throughout the whole range and they are priced pretty reasonably in comparison to a new camera body. I also use Noiseware on anything above ISO 800 and that really helps, too.

That's exactly the other option I was considering, although if I buy a new body I'll sell the old one on eBay (I'd probably get the D80 with the 18-135 and sell my D70 and 18-70--that kit seems to be selling in the $500-$600 range right now). I'll have to do a little shopping and try to figure out which makes more sense. I'm in no hurry.

Thanks for the suggestions!

[handicap18]

Why is the D50 still better wrt noise? I thought they were the same sensor. That big lcd is really cool.

The D50 is only fitting 6.1MP onto the sensor while the D80 is fitting 10MP onto the sensor. Same size more pixels will lead to more noise. Though the sensor used with the D80 does handle the 10MP very well. Nikon is actually using a different sensor now. I forget which company is making them. But the technology for the 10MP is very good.

The D70/70s and the D50 are all 6.1MP, but the D50 uses newer technology, thus better higher ISO performance. The D50 and the D40 share the same sensor. The D40x and the D80 I believe have the same sensor, but the D40x has newer technology and handles the higher ISO just a bit better. Though I would not get a D40x for the AF issues.

Your really not going to notice the issue unless you take a night shot at 1600ISO and enlarge it over 8x10 or higher. I do know from reviews I've read that the D80 handles the higher ISO's better than the D70/70s.

[fitzperry]

The D80 also does some in camera noise reduction that seems pretty cool.

Kyle, do you (or anyone else) have any guess as to when Nikon will replace the D80? It seems to be sort of a gamble in terms of getting the most for your money. When the next model comes out the value of the D70 will presumably drop, so it will cost me more to upgrade. Hmmmm. . . .

[Gdad]

Having had and sold a D70 and now using a D80 I would have to say noise performance is similar. Of course I think the D70 kind of got a bum rap on the noise issue anyway- I found by pushing the exposure by 1/3 - 2/3 on the 70 improved the noise substantially. The D80 does have some features I love and upgraded for (Larger viewfinder, larger LCD, Nikon verticle grip available) noise was not one of them.

Here is a shot taken with my noisy old D70 ;)

http://scl.smugmug.com/photos/130125785-L.jpg

[fitzperry]

Jeff, I can't see your exif data. What is the ISO on that shot?

Here is one taken at ISO 800. Shot in RAW and converted using Lightroom presets (i.e. before I pushed the exposure to brighten it up thereby creating more noise).

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e391/fitzperry/DSC_0032.jpg

And cropped

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e391/fitzperry/DSC_0032-3.jpg

Maybe the D80 wouldn't do much better--I don't have enough experience to know for sure (which is why I'm harassing you ;) ), but I've not been impressed with anything I've shot above 400.

Here's another one--this time at 640, again shot in RAW and converted using Lightroom presets. It's ok sized for the web, but the noise would definitely show printed at 8x12, and from what I've seen it seems like I'd get better results with the D80. Do you really disagree? Believe me I'd love the larger viewfinder and lcd, but probably not enough to spend $600 or $700 for it. I'd rather spend my $$ on lenses if upgrading the body isn't going to have much impact on image quality. We've had some big expenses around our house this year. I need as much bang for my buck as possible! :laughing:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e391/fitzperry/DSC_0110.jpg

Crop:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e391/fitzperry/DSC_0110-2.jpg

[Gdad]

I don't know why Smugmug hides the exif data- it was taken at ISO 1600 f2.8 for 1/80 sec. Any camera will create noise if underexposed. Shooting in Raw helps somewhat but the D70 tends to take a very conservative picture- and tries to avoid blown out hilights. Not necessarily a bad thing but for night and/or high iso shots try pushing the exposure by +.3 to +.6 EV.

You an see the data in the gallery - Here (http://SCL.smugmug.com/gallery/1739397/1/86009456)

Here is an experiment I did with the D70 at 1600 a while back-

-2 EV
http://scl.smugmug.com/photos/132785030-M.jpg

-1 EV
http://scl.smugmug.com/photos/132785037-M.jpg

0
http://scl.smugmug.com/photos/132785042-M.jpg

+1 EV
http://scl.smugmug.com/photos/132785050-M.jpg

+2 EV
http://scl.smugmug.com/photos/132785054-M.jpg

Noise is much better if you over expose slightly and then bring it back down in Raw- rather than pushing in the other direction. Just my $.02

[handicap18]

The D80 also does some in camera noise reduction that seems pretty cool.

Kyle, do you (or anyone else) have any guess as to when Nikon will replace the D80? It seems to be sort of a gamble in terms of getting the most for your money. When the next model comes out the value of the D70 will presumably drop, so it will cost me more to upgrade. Hmmmm. . . .

The D80 hasn't been available for a year yet. It was released in Sept '06 so you may not see a replacement for it for at least 6 months. There were 12 months between the D70 and D70s (though that is really a minor replacement as the D70 and D70s are VERY similar). 18 months between the D50 and D40. 18 months between the D70s and the D80. If the pattern holds true, then maybe some time in Feb '08 for the next upgrade from the D80, though things can change.

Right now the rumor is a replacement for the D200. That was released Dec '05. Though there were 3 years between the D100 and D200. Right now Nikon seems to be on an 18 month revision schedule (as I've seen it stated a few places online) which I take is similar to Canon's. Nikon's higher end camera's (D200, D2x, D2xs D2h and such) are more along the lines of a 2+ year revision depending on how high up they are.

Even with all that, the next body along the lines of the D40 to D80 ends could be something just below the D80, not necessarily and upgrade from the D80.

[fitzperry]

Noise is much better if you over expose slightly and then bring it back down in Raw- rather than pushing in the other direction. Just my $.02

That's interesting. With the images I posted, I underexposed in order to get a manageable shutter speed since I didn't have a tripod with me and didn't want to bump the ISO any more. And I thought I was being so smart. ;) :rotfl2:

Thanks for the info!

[fitzperry]

Even with all that, the next body along the lines of the D40 to D80 ends could be something just below the D80, not necessarily and upgrade from the D80.

Good point. That's certainly where they went with the D50 and D40. Guess it depends on whether they want to compete more with the XTi or the 30/40D.

[Steve's Girl]

I don't know why Smugmug hides the exif data- it was taken at ISO 1600 f2.8 for 1/80 sec. Any camera will create noise if underexposed. Shooting in Raw helps somewhat but the D70 tends to take a very conservative picture- and tries to avoid blown out hilights. Not necessarily a bad thing but for night and/or high iso shots try pushing the exposure by +.3 to +.6 EV.

You an see the data in the gallery - Here (http://SCL.smugmug.com/gallery/1739397/1/86009456)

Here is an experiment I did with the D70 at 1600 a while back-

-2 EV
http://scl.smugmug.com/photos/132785030-M.jpg

-1 EV
http://scl.smugmug.com/photos/132785037-M.jpg

0
http://scl.smugmug.com/photos/132785042-M.jpg

+1 EV
http://scl.smugmug.com/photos/132785050-M.jpg

+2 EV
http://scl.smugmug.com/photos/132785054-M.jpg

Noise is much better if you over expose slightly and then bring it back down in Raw- rather than pushing in the other direction. Just my $.02


This is great info! Very helpful. Thanks for posting! Just when I think I'm getting the knack of this, I realize again that I have sooooo much to learn.

[Gdad]

Here is some discussion on this topic from DPReview 6 months ago...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1034&thread=22244432

[Steve's Girl]

Here is some discussion on this topic from DPReview 6 months ago...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1034&thread=22244432

I'm going to have to experiment with this a little. The D80 tends to overexpose and I would often set the EV at -.3 or -.7. I have recently started leaving it at 0 and have been happier with the images. I'll need to play around with this a little bit more.

[Gdad]

I'm going to have to experiment with this a little. The D80 tends to overexpose and I would often set the EV at -.3 or -.7. I have recently started leaving it at 0 and have been happier with the images. I'll need to play around with this a little bit more.

I am in the same boat- I have a D50 and a D80 now and unfortunately have not figured either of them out quite as well as I understood my D70. The CW I have read on the D50 has always said it overexposes a bit but I'm not sure if that is true unless shooting jpg.

[handicap18]

I am in the same boat- I have a D50 and a D80 now and unfortunately have not figured either of them out quite as well as I understood my D70. The CW I have read on the D50 has always said it overexposes a bit but I'm not sure if that is true unless shooting jpg.

I had read a lot that the D50 overexposes as well, though I've never had a problem with that if it does. Whether it was when I was shooting JPEG's or now shooting RAW.

It might have something to do with what type of film you may have used back in your film days. I know Ed (YEKCIM) found he preferred to have his D50's set at -.3 I think, because it is more like the film he used to use.

I almost always leave my D50 at 0 unless I need to push the exposure to get better shutter speeds, then I'll go to -.7 or -1. Occassionally I've gone up to -2, but that is rare.

[mill4023]

I've wanted to move to SLR for a long time, but now I'm actually going to do it and I want to get something before we leave for our trip on the 21st (9 days !!!).

I've done quite a bit of research and for various reasons, I've narrowed my choices down to the Canon Rebel XTi or the Nikon D80. Almost everything I've read says the image quality is practically the same, but the D80 is more comfortable to hold, better built, has a much nicer viewfinder, and has more features like spot metering. I've actually held and played around with both and while I do prefer the D80's ergonomics and viewfinder, I'm not sure it's worth the extra money. Right now, the XTi is running about $600 for the body, while the D80 is about $870.

Anyone think the D80 is worth the extra money?

My other question, which also has some relevance to the above question, is which lens(es) would you recommend for either the Canon or Nikon for decent(for an amateur taking family and vacation photos) quality at an affordable price? With either one, I plan on getting the 50mm F/1.8 for low light shooting. But aside from that, I'd like to have coverage from 18 to 200. Are there any decent affordable lenses that will provide that or would it be more economical and give me better quality to split that range up between 2 lenses? On the Nikon side, I've heard good things about their 18-200, but that's a lot of money.

This question is related to the question of which camera to buy because if it turns out that I can get that 18-200 coverage cheaper by going with Nikon vs Canon or vice versa, then the price difference between the bodies may not be an issue.

I know 18-200 is my ideal, but I could also go shorter. I just know that after playing around with the XTi, 18-55 is not enough reach for me. The 18-135 kit lens on the D80 was much closer to what I'd like as far as range. So any suggestions for what kind of range is needed to get a wide variety of vacation pictures would be appreciated as well.

[fitzperry]

The 18-135 lens is pretty highly regarded as far as kit lenses go. I have the 18-70 that came as the kit lens with my D70 and have been very happy with it, although I'm considering switching to the faster Sigma 24-70 f/2.8. Others will no doubt disagree but IMO Nikon's kit lenses are superior to Canon's (part of the reason I went with the D70 over the Rebel). Buying the kit can help offset the cost difference because you usually save a little on the lens.

For a little more reach, I believe there is a new Nikon 55-200 with VR that sells for around $250 and has gotten pretty good reviews. I have the older non-VR version and it's a decent lens, but at that focal length I'd recommend the VR. That would get you the 18-200mm reach you're looking for at a lower price than the 18-200 super-zoom (and probably better optics). I've had my eye on the 70-300VR for awhile now but haven't been able to convince myself to spend the money (IIRC it's around $450) because I really use the wider angle lens much more.

The 50mm is of course a must have. I use mine quite a bit and it came in really handy at WDW.

As for whether the D80 is worth the extra $$, I believe it is a step above the Canon and probably worth it, but that's JM(completely unbiased ;) )O.

[Steve's Girl]

Anyone think the D80 is worth the extra money?




IMHO - yes! Last fall, I was also looking at the D80, XTi as well as a few others. I chose the D80 and have been very happy with it. Nikon's lens choices is what really swayed me. I have 3 kids and knew that I didn't want to change lenses everytime I went from a wide angle shot to a zoom shot. So, a good "walk around" lens was really important to me. Nikon's 18-135 is an excellent lens. I now have the 18-200VR and really like it. It is expensive, but not so much so when you look at having to buy two lenses to cover the same range with other systems. It is not pro glass, but does provide good results with a lot of convenience. I think Sigma now makes a comparable lens to the Nikon 18-200VR. Not sure of price, however.

[Master Mason]

The problem is it is not an equal comparison.

Canon and Nikon camers don't really line up for even comparison.

The XTi is better than the d40
The D80 is better than the XTi
The 40D is better than the D80
The D300 is better than the 40D

When you get to the pro lines then the comparisons are different, but with the step ladder you can't really compare directly because its not apples to apples.

[YEKCIM]

As MM says, Big N and Big C don't have "paired" cameras, by design. I would suggest that you look beyond the camera body and compare lenses, based on your anticipated needs, both now and in the future. Work backwards from there. I have both the 18-135 and 70-300VR and find that that is a very good combo for me. Your mileage may vary, depending on your particular needs.

~Y

[mill4023]

The problem is it is not an equal comparison.

Canon and Nikon cameras don't really line up for even comparison.

The XTi is better than the d40
The D80 is better than the XTi
The 40D is better than the D80
The D300 is better than the 40D

When you get to the pro lines then the comparisons are different, but with the step ladder you can't really compare directly because its not apples to apples.

Yep. That's what is making this more difficult for me. If they were equivalent and equal prices, I'd just pick the one I liked more. In this case, I know that the D80 is overall, a slightly higher end camera and if they were the same price, I'd definitely pick it. The question is really whether the D80 has enough advantages to justify the extra money. And a lot of that comes down to deciding whether to buy into the Canon or Nikon family of lenses.

So that's why I'm wondering whether it's more affordable to get decent lenses to cover 18-200 with Nikon or Canon.

[NostalgicDad]

I love my D80. I like that it uses SD cards instead of Compact Flash although lots of folks definitely prefer the latter. I use an 8GB SDHC and it performs great in that regard. I've been very impressed with the battery life as well. Nikon recognized a previous problem with the older batteries and made a nice improvement. Spot metering is a big plus as well in this class of camera.

I currently use a Sigma 18-50mm f/2.8 and have been completely happy with it as my prime lens. For telephoto, I bought the Nikon 70-300VR and have no complaints at all. That is a super lens. I've heard lots of good things about the 18-135mm kit lens. It just wasn't the focal length that suited me when I bought the D80 body.

You'll get great results out of either camera. I just give the nod to the Nikon and so does the following c|net review......

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-11396_7-6654246-1.html

[mill4023]

As MM says, Big N and Big C don't have "paired" cameras, by design. I would suggest that you look beyond the camera body and compare lenses, based on your anticipated needs, both now and in the future. Work backwards from there. I have both the 18-135 and 70-300VR and find that that is a very good combo for me. Your mileage may vary, depending on your particular needs.

~Y

Is that 18-135 the one that comes as a kit lens with the D80?
Is it a decent lens for an amateur who just wants to take vacation pictures?

[YEKCIM]

Is that 18-135 the one that comes as a kit lens with the D80?
Is it a decent lens for an amateur who just wants to take vacation pictures?

You bet it is! I have both the 18-135 and the 70-300VR and those two lenses cover about 95% of my needs. I purposely bought lenses with significant overlap, to reduce lens changes. The 18-135 is very sharp, but does suffer some from vignetting (wide open), distortion (wide end), and chromatic aberration. None of those faults has been a problem for me, but I mention them because they do exist.

Here are a few from WDW this past July:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j11/fasteddiew/DisneyWorld%202007/Magic%20Kingdom/DSC_2926.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j11/fasteddiew/DisneyWorld%202007/Magic%20Kingdom/DSC_3258.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j11/fasteddiew/DisneyWorld%202007/Magic%20Kingdom/DSC_3121.jpg

Feel free to browse my 2007 galleries (see sig below) for other examples.

~Y

[Master Mason]

here is another thing to throw a monkey wrench in your system... compare the Canon 30D and the Nikon D80. That is a much much closer comparison of features. And within a few bucks of each other at this point.

[Steve's Girl]

here is another thing to throw a monkey wrench in your system... compare the Canon 30D and the Nikon D80. That is a much much closer comparison of features. And within a few bucks of each other at this point.

Well now, you could compare the 30D to the D200 since it's only a few more bucks!

[mill4023]

Well now, you could compare the 30D to the D200 since it's only a few more bucks!
LOL. This could get very dangerous.

The reality is that the D80 and the XTi both have way more capability than I need as a first time DSLR user. The only reason I'm not considering the D40 is the lack of AF with the cheap 50mm 1.8.
So it's really a matter of whether I should choose Canon or Nikon. If I go with Canon, there's really no need to spend the extra money on the 30D instead of the XTi. And if I go with Nikon, there's no need to spend the extra for the D200 over the D80.

[Anewman]

Well now, you could compare the 30D to the D200 since it's only a few more bucks!


I see the D200 being almost $600 more expensive than the 30D, what do you consider "a few more bucks!"?

Buydig prices as of RIGHT NOW

Canon 30d body only $999
Nikon D200 body only $1,549

But you see that is exactly why Nikon has always produced tweeners to the Canon line, car makers do it all the time. Marketing always compares specs with the lower line from the competition, but they always compare price with a higher line.

[fitzperry]

LOL. This could get very dangerous.

The reality is that the D80 and the XTi both have way more capability than I need as a first time DSLR user. The only reason I'm not considering the D40 is the lack of AF with the cheap 50mm 1.8.
So it's really a matter of whether I should choose Canon or Nikon. If I go with Canon, there's really no need to spend the extra money on the 30D instead of the XTi. And if I go with Nikon, there's no need to spend the extra for the D200 over the D80.

It's always nice to have something you can "grow" into. You may find you'll need it sooner than you think.

[Nikel]

I see the D200 being almost $600 more expensive than the 30D, what do you consider "a few more bucks!"?

Buydig prices as of RIGHT NOW

Canon 30d body only $999
Nikon D200 body only $1,549


The price gap is exaggerated right now because the 40D is already released (so the 30D has been consistently dropping in price), but the D300 hasn't released yet (so the D200 hasn't started dropping).

[Master Mason]

That is not true, the 40D has not been released yet, but even so the 40D is listing for $1299 body only but backordered. Still cheaper for the 40D than the D200

[Nikel]

That is not true, the 40D has not been released yet, but even so the 40D is listing for $1299 body only but backordered. Still cheaper for the 40D than the D200


I have in my camera bag upstairs a shiny new 40D. They most certainly are released. I pre-ordered from amazon.com, and it shipped last week. It released early. I can go look and try to find some sort of press release. Or I can fire of a couple of quick snapshots, and you can check the exif info.

[Master Mason]

OK, then I stand corrected, but the place I buy from still has them back ordered, so if you pre ordered then your good, if you didn't then your waiting.

But since you have one, how is it? I am thinking of just getting the 30D, not sure that it is 300 bucks better.

But it is still cheaper than the D200 currently.

[Nikel]

I was prevously shooting with a 20D (and still have it as a back-up), and this was def. a worthwhile upgrade for me. The Auto ISO is a pretty handy little feature. I also like the spot metering (can't remeber if the 30D has that - the 20D does not). What's really rocking my world is the focus. Way sharper than my 20D when I'm shooting with the wider aps. It took some getting used to and time setting up all the settings where I want them, but now I'm really happy with it. I've really only played with it, and mostly trying to figure out some studio lighting stuff, so I don't have anything sample images share. I'm shooting a fairly big event this weekend though, so next week I'll have a more in depth opinion and some images to show.

[Master Mason]

the 30D does have spot metering, which is one of the major reasons I want to upgrade from the XT. B&H is closed till saturday now, so I will think over the weekend, but I am at the 99% to pull the trigger next week. I am planning an overnighter to DL next month and would love to have the new camera for it, plus it would allow my son to use my XT. Plus Fall ball is going now so It would be nice to have for that. I would love to have the latest and greatest, but like I said I am having difficultly justifying the extra 300 to myself. Maybe get the 30 now and the 50 in 2 years...lol

[Steve's Girl]

I see the D200 being almost $600 more expensive than the 30D, what do you consider "a few more bucks!"?

Buydig prices as of RIGHT NOW

Canon 30d body only $999
Nikon D200 body only $1,549

But you see that is exactly why Nikon has always produced tweeners to the Canon line, car makers do it all the time. Marketing always compares specs with the lower line from the competition, but they always compare price with a higher line.


I was just kidding! My whole point is that for more $, you can always get more. Once you start down that road, it never ends. You decide what your needs are and rule out those models that are more than you want or need.

[mill4023]

After more research, plenty of helpful advice in my other thread here, and playing around with the XTi and the D80 again, I've decided to go with the D80.
Now I have to decide what to do as far as lenses. My use will mainly be for family and vacation pictures. I would really like some decent low light capability because that's been sorely missing on my P&S. I'd also love to eventually have a long telephoto.
I've heard some pretty good things about the 18-135 kit lens and the 18-55 kit lens, but I've also seem some reviews that aren't very favorable (especially for the 18-135). Everyone seems to love the 18-200 VR, but that's a lot of money to spend for someone who's just starting out with DSLR's.
Eventually, I'd like to have something in the 200mm or maybe even 300mm range, but that doesn't have to be right now.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a 50mm f/1.8 for low light. Other than that, I'm not sure what to do.
Here are a couple of options I'm thinking about:
1. Get the body only and buy the 18-200 VR.
2. Get the body only and buy something like an 18-50 f/2.8 and a 70-300 VR
3. Get the kit with 18-55 and buy a 70-300 VR.
4. Get the kit with the 18-135 and use that for awhile before deciding what else I really want.

Which of these do you think is a better option or do you have another recommendation?

Thanks.

[fan1080]

I have the 18-200, and other than lens creep, I really like it.

A couple other options:

1. 18-135 and 70-300 VR.
2. 18-55 and 55-200 VR.

I had a 50 1.8, 18-55 and the 55-200 VR, they are all great lenses. I decided to go with the 18-200 because I don't have to change lenses.

For the low-light variety, that's where I'm at now too. I would like something in 2.8 with zoom. Nikon's 2.8 lenses are excellent, but very pricey. I've been looking at Sigma for a 2.8.

[Master Mason]

Personally, unless you are sure you need something at this time, I would go with option 4. That will cover most of your general needs, and then after you have learned to use the camera, you can decide what addtional lens(es) you need to get to be able to get the shots you want but can't get with the lens you have.

[senecabeach]

In no stretch of the imagination am I qualified to answer your question.

I am a newbie to the D80 for these last 9 mos. and have learned a wealth of information from the real "guru's" on these boards who have helped me expand my photo skills.

I would like to share my experience with you. I purchased the D 80, 18-135mm and treated myself to the 70-300 VR.
I use the 18-135 as my walk around. I have been very thrilled with these and thought they would suffice for my needs going forward.

Well...still wasn't happy with the % of pics taken vs. keepers for low light....so...I just got the prime 50mm f/1.8 and it was certainly cheap considering the use it will get. ;)

In hindsight, I probably should have gotten the 50mm first + the 18-135mm!!

So its your choice and also remember the "extras" you will need to buy along with equiptment..camera bag ( I have 2, main + day trip)..tripod..UV/P filters(?)...etc.

Enjoy !!!:thumbsup2

[NostalgicDad]

I have option #2 and it's the Sigma 18-50mm f/2.8 EX. As far as focal length coverage with these 2 lenses, for me this works good. I don't miss the 50-70mm range at all. As much as I love my Nikon 70-300VR, the Sigma has just been a joy to use. Next up for me will probably be the Sigma 10-20mm.

[Steve's Girl]

My vote is for option 4 (18-135) along with the 50mm 1.8 for low light. This is the set-up I started out with and took on my WDW trip last Dec. and it worked really well.

[YEKCIM]

A lot depends on your budget, and your anticipated needs. The equipment you see listed in my sig below is what I purchased initially, and I do not regret a single item. Having said that, though, I will say that the 18-135 and 70-300VR cover 95% of my shooting. The 50mm and the 10-20 are for special situations, and honestly do not get used much. Ditto for the SB-800, although I wouldn't want to be without it.

Of the options you listed, #4 makes the most sense to me, unless you already know that you will want a long-reach lens, in which case the 70-300VR is a good choice, if you have the funds to stretch for it. The 50mm, at $120 or so, is a bargain, and would be useful in some situations at WDW. I used it on Great Movie Ride and Carousel of Progress, but that is about it. I could've used it at night, too, but we were "on the run" so much that I really did not have a chance to do much night photography.

As I think I said in the other thread, having the extra reach of the 18-135, vs the 18-55, made that a no brainer for me, and the overlap between the 18-135 and the 70-300VR means less lens changing. I'm VERY happy with the sharpness, color, contrast, etc of the 18-135. The main complaint I've heard concerns the build quality (plastic mount, etc) and have read some posts on dedicated photo boards about the lens having to be returned to Big N for repair. For the money, though, I think it is an amazing lens, especially if you don't bang it around. For an example of the edge to edge sharpness, look at the photo of the kids' choir or whatever it is in the DPReview D80 review samples page (http://www.dpreview.com/gallery/nikond80_samples/) (scroll the thumbnails to the right to find that pic...I think it's the 13th from the left). Download the full res image and then zoom in on it. I think you will be impressed. Do note that not all of the pix on this D80 review are made with the 18-135, though.

Good luck; we'll all be looking for some great pix from you on this forum!

~Ed

[Groucho]

I don't think anyone mentioned size/weight... without knowing the exact numbers off the top of my head (how sad would that be!), I'm pretty sure that the D80 is noticably larger and heavier than the XTi, due to it being a higher-end camera.

I'd still go for the D80 over the XTi, but it is something to keep in mind if weight is a concern.

I'd also assume that there's a reason that the Sony A100 and Pentax K10D (or even K100D) didn't make it to your final round... those are both worth considering also.

[handicap18]

I have an almost identical set up as YECKIM. I use the 18-135mm as my standard walk-around lens and am VERY happy with it. I moved up from the 18-70 as I found that 70mm wasn't long enough for me.

I just got back from a few days in Philadelphia and used the 18-135mm 90% of the time. Only time I used a different lens was at the Phillies game and took out the 70-300mm for in game shots.

I'd love to have an f/2.8 zoom like the 17-55 or 18-50, but right now I'm getting excellent quality from my 18-135 so I've decided to forgo the fast aperture for the longer focal length.

For the price the 50mm is an excellent lens to have. I use it as a portrait lens and will also use it occassionally as a general purpose lens. The image quality is outstanding. Its tack sharp. To me its worth the $110-120 to have it in my bag even if its for only occassional use.

The 18-200mm VR lens is great, but expensive. The 18-135 is less than 1/2 the cost. You can age the 18-135 and the 70-300 VR for about $100-150 more than just the 18-200 if you look around.

[mill4023]

I don't think anyone mentioned size/weight... without knowing the exact numbers off the top of my head (how sad would that be!), I'm pretty sure that the D80 is noticably larger and heavier than the XTi, due to it being a higher-end camera.

I'd still go for the D80 over the XTi, but it is something to keep in mind if weight is a concern.

I'd also assume that there's a reason that the Sony A100 and Pentax K10D (or even K100D) didn't make it to your final round... those are both worth considering also.

Yep, I think the D80 is about 10% heavier than the XTi. Something like 580g vs 520 (or something like that).

Yes, the Sony and Pentax were originally on my list. Each one had certain things that caused me to take it off the list. For the Sony, the high ISO noise and the button layout. For the 10D, the bad default JPEG's. None of those issues may be a big deal, but in the end, I decided I'd rather spend a little more and get something that would hopefully leave me with no regrets, which is why I chose the Nikon.

[mill4023]

Thanks everyone.
I think I'm going to go with the 18-135 for now. It sounds like it's worthwhile to buy it as part of the kit instead of buying body only.

[Steve's Girl]

but in the end, I decided I'd rather spend a little more and get something that would hopefully leave me with no regrets, which is why I chose the Nikon.

You'll be a happy camper! :thumbsup2

[Master Mason]

but in the end, I decided I'd rather spend a little more and get something that would hopefully leave me with no regrets, which is why I chose the Nikon.

Well except for the usuall Canon envy that all Nikonians suffer from :thumbsup2 :rotfl2:

[YEKCIM]

Thanks everyone.
I think I'm going to go with the 18-135 for now. It sounds like it's worthwhile to buy it as part of the kit instead of buying body only.

I think that's a very sound decision, and will give you a good range to work with to determine if you need any additional range. If you do, I highly recommend the 70-300VR. You may also want to think about an accessory flash (SB600 or SB800).

~Y

[mill4023]

What do you all think of the 55-200mm VR?
It seems to get really good reviews and with my 10% coupon at Circuit City, I can get it for $270. I'm tempted, but then I wonder if I'm better off saving the extra money for the 18-135 and getting an 18-55 or 18-70 instead. It would be nice to have the overlap, but when I'm getting up to 100 and higher, it seems like having VR would be worthwhile.

[mill4023]

Of course, then if I'm spending that much on two lenses, maybe I should just spend a little more, get the 18-200 VR and be done with it.
Argghhh!
Is it just me, or are there about a million different choices when it comes to figuring out which lenses to get.

[YEKCIM]

What do you all think of the 55-200mm VR?
It seems to get really good reviews and with my 10% coupon at Circuit City, I can get it for $270. I'm tempted, but then I wonder if I'm better off saving the extra money for the 18-135 and getting an 18-55 or 18-70 instead. It would be nice to have the overlap, but when I'm getting up to 100 and higher, it seems like having VR would be worthwhile.

From everything I've read, the 55-200VR is a very good lens, especially considering the price ($232 shipped, online). It is also small and lightweight. The negatives are that the build quality is not as robust as the 70-300VR (plastic lens mount, like the 18-135, instead of metal like the 70-300VR) and of course, not as much "reach". For me, personally, there is not enough difference between 135 and 200. When I'm using the 70-300VR, I'm usually at the long end of that range, but that's just me. As I said before, I really like the two lenses (18-135 and 70-300VR) and they are a good "fit" for what I shoot.

Ed

[mill4023]

Yeah, I think you're right. When I was looking at the prices, I was looking at Circuit City, where the 70-300 is over $600, so it was a lot more than the 55-200. Online, the 70-300 is more like $450. The only reason I'm looking at Circuit City for the D80 is because I can pick it up now and with my 10% off coupon, it's about the same price as the online dealers.

OK, I swear I've made up my mind. I'm just going to stick with the 18-135 and a 50mm F/1.8 and see how that works out for now.

[mill4023]

Well except for the usuall Canon envy that all Nikonians suffer from :thumbsup2 :rotfl2:
LOL. I feel like I'm joining a cult or something.:)

[Master Mason]

LOL. I feel like I'm joining a cult or something.:)


You are, your joining the dark side :rotfl2:

[handicap18]

Yeah, I think you're right. When I was looking at the prices, I was looking at Circuit City, where the 70-300 is over $600, so it was a lot more than the 55-200. Online, the 70-300 is more like $450. The only reason I'm looking at Circuit City for the D80 is because I can pick it up now and with my 10% off coupon, it's about the same price as the online dealers.

OK, I swear I've made up my mind. I'm just going to stick with the 18-135 and a 50mm F/1.8 and see how that works out for now.

Sounds good. Thats some nice equipment your getting. We're eagerly awaiting the posting of pictures. ::yes::

[KrazyPete]

Take the moral high ground Mill. You're a Nikon user now. Petty bickering with Canon people is beneath you. Do what I do, simply smile, nod your head and allow them to continue on in their delusion state. ::yes::

[Steve's Girl]

Well, my motto has always been "speak softly and carry a big camera"

[mill4023]

You are, your joining the dark side :rotfl2:
LOL. I did always lean more towards the dark side. Luke was just such a wimp. :)

:darth: pirate:

But don't worry. We'll still be bringing our Canon S45. That way my wife will have something to use. I think she's afraid to touch the D80. :)

[Groucho]

Yep, I think the D80 is about 10% heavier than the XTi. Something like 580g vs 520 (or something like that).

Yes, the Sony and Pentax were originally on my list. Each one had certain things that caused me to take it off the list. For the Sony, the high ISO noise and the button layout. For the 10D, the bad default JPEG's.
Argh, curse Phil at DPReview and his FUD... :sad2: Unfortunately, it'll probably be tarred with that sentiment forever. They purposefully chose a film-like look, a slight adjustment of sharpness and/or color can change that. The DCRP review is a bit more even-handed, though I still don't agree - he compares a "default" jpg that looks decent enough to an over-exposed, oversharpened RAW conversion that he thinks looks better???

Sigh. See any Pentax message forum for tons of consternation on this issue. :)

[DisneySuiteFreak]

Hi all you d80 users,
I just started playing with my new camera and noticed that whenever I try to take a photo in Manual mode it comes out black. I have the lens set to M, the body set to M and the Mode selector set to M. I tried adjusting the shutter speed and aperture and that makes no difference. It looks fine in the viewfinder and then nothing but black comes out. This happens when I use my kit lens 18-135 and my 50mm f1.8. Nothing I do in manual mode comes out. Am I overloking something, doing something wrong or is something wrong with my camera?:confused3 Pictures are fine in Auto mode, but if I wanted all auto mode I could've stayed with my P&S. :sad2:
Help would be really appreciated rght now because I feel like I'm banging my head against the wall!!:headache:
Thanks...

Oh yeah, I even tried reversing the body and lens to a and shoot in M but it still didn't work. Of course manual says to have everything set to M.
Thanks...

[DisneySuiteFreak]

Hi all you d80 users,
I just started playing with my new camera and noticed that whenever I try to take a photo in Manual mode it comes out black. I have the lens set to M, the body set to M and the Mode selector set to M. I tried adjusting the shutter speed and aperture and that makes no difference. It looks fine in the viewfinder and then nothing but black comes out. This happens when I use my kit lens 18-135 and my 50mm f1.8. Nothing I do in manual mode comes out. Am I overloking something, doing something wrong or is something wrong with my camera?:confused3 Pictures are fine in Auto mode, but if I wanted all auto mode I could've stayed with my P&S. :sad2:
Help would be really appreciated rght now because I feel like I'm banging my head against the wall!!:headache:
Thanks...

Oh yeah, I even tried reversing the body and lens to a and shoot in M but it still didn't work. Of course manual says to have everything set to M.
Thanks...

Never mind. I figured it out. I obviously have to go practice and learn more about exposure. DUH! :eek: OTOH, at least the camera works fine :banana: even though the operator has a lot to learn!:rotfl:

[Steve's Girl]

If the lens is set to M, then that is manual focus. I would recommend using the P (program mode) until you get a little more comfortable with the camera. The camera chooses the setting for you, but you still have some creative controll when you want it.

[handicap18]

I rarely shoot in Manual mode. The meter in todays dSLR's are very good.

If you new and trying to figure out exposure, then I also suggest starting in Program. This way you can still choose your ISO and your focus points. From there move on to Aperture Priority and Shutter Priority.

I mostly use Aperture Priority. I use Manual when doing long exposures or when I feel the camera is underexposing and I know that adjusting one of the settings will work better than what the camera is choosing. Though that doesn't happen very often.

If you do use Manual, pay attention to the meter in the view finder. You don't want any bars showing on either side of '0'. Unless of course you purposly want to over or underexpose.

[Groucho]

If the lens is set to M, then that is manual focus. I would recommend using the P (program mode) until you get a little more comfortable with the camera. The camera chooses the setting for you, but you still have some creative controll when you want it.
I think you mean manual exposure, not manual focus. :)

Like the others have said, you'll rarely need to venture into Manual mode. The only time I used it last DL trip was when doing planned HDR shots, and I could have just used Aperture priority and exposure compensation to accomplish the same thing.

If you are there, there's probably whatever the Nikon equivalent of "AE-L" or a "green button" on your camera, which should set the aperture and shutter speed to what it thinks you'll want for good exposure. You can then adjust those as you wish, but at least you'll be starting from a known good place.

[Steve's Girl]

I think you mean manual exposure, not manual focus. :)




Well, I actually did mean manual focus. :confused: My Nikon lens has a focus mode switch on the lens. You can select M/A or M. M is for manual focus. My D80 also has a focus mode switch on the camera body and I also set that switch to M when I want to manual focus. Maybe I only need to set it on the camera or lens, but for some reason I've always set it to M on both for manual focusing. Guess I should experiment with that a little.

[DisneySuiteFreak]

Well, I actually did mean manual focus. :confused: My Nikon lens has a focus mode switch on the lens. You can select M/A or M. M is for manual focus. My D80 also has a focus mode switch on the camera body and I also set that switch to M when I want to manual focus. Maybe I only need to set it on the camera or lens, but for some reason I've always set it to M on both for manual focusing. Guess I should experiment with that a little.

Hi Steve's Girl,
Actually the d80 manual does sya that if you are shooting in M mode, the lens and body should also be switched to M.
Thanks for your input on the 3rd post above. I wanted to start shooting in M mode to force myself to learn how the camera works and then I started panicking when the photos were coming out black. I was worried something was wrng with the camera. (Duh...) I figured out that my shutter speed and/or aperture were set incorrectly. EVen though I fiddled with it to change it, I didn't change it enough. For some reason, the M mode on my camera was default set at 1/4000s for shutter. So I lowered it to 1/250 and the pictures were still black. :rolleyes: Then I panicked, posted, and then tried again. The camera works, I just need to go learn how to use all its features and learn more about exposure. :)
Thanks again..

[DisneySuiteFreak]

I think you mean manual exposure, not manual focus. :)

Like the others have said, you'll rarely need to venture into Manual mode. The only time I used it last DL trip was when doing planned HDR shots, and I could have just used Aperture priority and exposure compensation to accomplish the same thing.

If you are there, there's probably whatever the Nikon equivalent of "AE-L" or a "green button" on your camera, which should set the aperture and shutter speed to what it thinks you'll want for good exposure. You can then adjust those as you wish, but at least you'll be starting from a known good place.

So Groucho (or anyone),
I was thinking I had to have the camera in Manual using the Bulb mode (using remote) to take awesome firworks shots, but you're saying that I don't? I thought all you professionals and semi professionals usually shot in Manual mode? ;) I don't feel so stupid after all. (I was feeling pretty dang dumb this morning!)

I am trying to read the manual that came with the camera, but it's a yawn...:rolleyes1 The d80 Field guide is so-so. I'm beginning to regret just not buying one of those "this is how you use the d80 and here're all it's fetaures DVDs." This camera is very intelligent and because of that I think there is a lot to learn wbout all of the features built in. I love the low lights shots I've gotten just messing around at home so far...
Thanks guys...

[DisneySuiteFreak]

I rarely shoot in Manual mode. The meter in todays dSLR's are very good.

If you new and trying to figure out exposure, then I also suggest starting in Program. This way you can still choose your ISO and your focus points. From there move on to Aperture Priority and Shutter Priority.

I mostly use Aperture Priority. I use Manual when doing long exposures or when I feel the camera is underexposing and I know that adjusting one of the settings will work better than what the camera is choosing. Though that doesn't happen very often.

If you do use Manual, pay attention to the meter in the view finder. You don't want any bars showing on either side of '0'. Unless of course you purposly want to over or underexpose.

Thanks handicap18! I don't know much about ISO other than I didn't like the noise in my P&S. I have a lot to learn. Thanks for the info about the meter in the view finder. Someone else on another board mentioned that, but you rarely see people mention that feature and what will happen if you don't remove the lines. I wouldn't have known if you two hadn't mentioned it and I'd still be wondering why my pictures weren't coming out, because I looked through the entire manual regading everything about Manual mode to figure out why my pics weren't coming out, and it didn't mention the exposure meter and that you should remove the lines at all. Basically because when in manual mode, the camera doesn't meter for exposure anymore, right? You have to do it. (Right?...I think that's the right info.) :rotfl2:

[Groucho]

Well, I actually did mean manual focus. :confused: My Nikon lens has a focus mode switch on the lens. You can select M/A or M. M is for manual focus. My D80 also has a focus mode switch on the camera body and I also set that switch to M when I want to manual focus. Maybe I only need to set it on the camera or lens, but for some reason I've always set it to M on both for manual focusing. Guess I should experiment with that a little.
Whoops - I knew that DisneySuiteFreak (DSF?) was in manual exposure mode, but didn't notice that he was also in manual focus. I didn't catch that you said "lens" - yes, you're right, I should read more thoroughly next time. Oops! :)

I suspect I'm not the only one in this boat though! DSF, manual exposure (on the mode dial, by P, Av, Tv, etc) is unrelated to the manual focus settings on the body and lens. (And I'm still not sure why they're on both - over here in Pentaxland, you set the focus mode on the body only, not the lens. I can only assume it's to allow the focusing ring to turn, though I'm not sure why they couldn't just do that electronically or some other way, since obviously it can be done.) If you're setting everything to manual, you're really roughing it. :teeth: And as for metering in M mode - well, it still does meter (that's how it can give you the lines that tell you how close you are to proper exposure, or numeric readout if your camera displays it that way), but it doesn't change anything. Unless you press the AE-L or green button or whatever the D80 uses for that function. (Apparently it's an AE-L/AF-L button - if it works like it does over here, it will set your aperture and shutter speed to recommended values in M mode, you can then adjust them as you like.)

As for bulb mode - again, this is an area where things are slightly different in Pentaxland. Here, Bulb is actually a separate setting on the mode dial - P, Av, Tv, M, and B. I think that in Nikonland, you select Manual then choose Bulb as your shutter speed? I'm not 100% sure. But anyway, yeah, technically I don't use M mode for my bulb-exposure fireworks photos, but someone with a Nikon or Canon taking the same photos might. Confused yet? :eek:

[DisneySuiteFreak]

Whoops - I knew that DisneySuiteFreak (DSF?) was in manual exposure mode, but didn't notice that he was also in manual focus. I didn't catch that you said "lens" - yes, you're right, I should read more thoroughly next time. Oops! :)

I suspect I'm not the only one in this boat though! DSF, manual exposure (on the mode dial, by P, Av, Tv, etc) is unrelated to the manual focus settings on the body and lens. (And I'm still not sure why they're on both - over here in Pentaxland, you set the focus mode on the body only, not the lens. I can only assume it's to allow the focusing ring to turn, though I'm not sure why they couldn't just do that electronically or some other way, since obviously it can be done.) If you're setting everything to manual, you're really roughing it. :teeth: And as for metering in M mode - well, it still does meter (that's how it can give you the lines that tell you how close you are to proper exposure, or numeric readout if your camera displays it that way), but it doesn't change anything. Unless you press the AE-L or green button or whatever the D80 uses for that function. (Apparently it's an AE-L/AF-L button - if it works like it does over here, it will set your aperture and shutter speed to recommended values in M mode, you can then adjust them as you like.)

As for bulb mode - again, this is an area where things are slightly different in Pentaxland. Here, Bulb is actually a separate setting on the mode dial - P, Av, Tv, M, and B. I think that in Nikonland, you select Manual then choose Bulb as your shutter speed? I'm not 100% sure. But anyway, yeah, technically I don't use M mode for my bulb-exposure fireworks photos, but someone with a Nikon or Canon taking the same photos might. Confused yet? :eek:

:confused3 Yep!

[DisneySuiteFreak]

Whoops - I knew that DisneySuiteFreak (DSF?) was in manual exposure mode, but didn't notice that he was also in manual focus. I didn't catch that you said "lens" - yes, you're right, I should read more thoroughly next time. Oops! :)

I suspect I'm not the only one in this boat though! DSF, manual exposure (on the mode dial, by P, Av, Tv, etc) is unrelated to the manual focus settings on the body and lens. (And I'm still not sure why they're on both - over here in Pentaxland, you set the focus mode on the body only, not the lens. I can only assume it's to allow the focusing ring to turn, though I'm not sure why they couldn't just do that electronically or some other way, since obviously it can be done.) If you're setting everything to manual, you're really roughing it. :teeth: And as for metering in M mode - well, it still does meter (that's how it can give you the lines that tell you how close you are to proper exposure, or numeric readout if your camera displays it that way), but it doesn't change anything. Unless you press the AE-L or green button or whatever the D80 uses for that function. (Apparently it's an AE-L/AF-L button - if it works like it does over here, it will set your aperture and shutter speed to recommended values in M mode, you can then adjust them as you like.)

As for bulb mode - again, this is an area where things are slightly different in Pentaxland. Here, Bulb is actually a separate setting on the mode dial - P, Av, Tv, M, and B. I think that in Nikonland, you select Manual then choose Bulb as your shutter speed? I'm not 100% sure. But anyway, yeah, technically I don't use M mode for my bulb-exposure fireworks photos, but someone with a Nikon or Canon taking the same photos might. Confused yet? :eek:

I think I'm having a slightly easier time of undersanding it by reading the D80 Field Guide. The manual is a hodge podge of info and it skips back and forth. :headache: (But from my research, I knew that, and that's why I bought the D80 Field Guide!)
So far, the D80 manual has told me that the lens, body and Mode selector should be set to M when you are in M mode, but the Field Guide said you can set the lens and body to AF and have the mode selector in M. I tried it; it works. I never would have known it was an option though if you didn't say something Groucho. :rolleyes1 The manual is more confusing than helpful. :confused3 I just discovered that you can use the Bulb feature in M mode and leave everything else at AF. (I havent felt this dumb in years!!!) :rotfl: Good thing I still have my sense of humor! :lmao: I can still use the focus rings even though the lens and body are set to AF. (Thank God!)
You're correct, it does still meter in M mode, it just doesn't correct it, that's where the adjustment thing comes in w/the lines. (That really sounds amateurish, but my brain is in overload trying to absorb everything all at once.)
There is an AE-L/AF-L button on the back of the camera. Still not sure what it's suposed to be used for. :confused: I believe I read that it has something to do with locking in the focus. There is also a focus selector lock switch, so???:confused: I guess I would use then in tandem? :confused3 I figure that if I pressed the AE/AF-L, it would lock the focus -- at least that's what I read in the manual. The switch is a whole other story. (Haven't gotten that far yet!) The D80 Field guide info on the AE/AF-L was pretty limited. Here's what the FG says:
AE/AF Lock - A control on the D80 that lets you lock the current autoexposure (AE) and/or autofocus (AF) settings prior to taking a picture, freeing you from having to hold the shutter release partially depressed, although you must depress and hold the shutter release partially to apply the feature. :headache: HUH??? :confused3 What's the point of 'freeing you from having to hold' it, if you have to press it and hold it to make it work in the first place? Am I not reading English??? Is it just me who finds that verbiage slightly confusing? That's all it says regarding AE/AF-L in the D80 FG. :scared1: And the FG is a VAST improvement over the manual.
IMO, these kinds of things are why people buy a DSLR and then continue to shoot everything in Auto. The manual is written from the standpoint that you may, or should, already know a bit about how the camera is set up, what it's for and why. :headache:
Right now all I can think is: to make it easier on myself and in the interest of time, and to protect my self esteem -- I should've bought the how to DVD!!!:scared1:
I still love the camera; I just hate feeling so dumb!:eek:
BTW, I'm a she, not a he...:flower3:
I welcome any info from all you D80 experts out there if it'll help free me from reading the confusing and imho poorly written manual! Share your wealth of information; I'll take it however I can get it!:yay:
DSF

[Nikel]

IMO, it's easier to learn the features on the camera and understand the manual if you already have at least a basic understanding of exposure and metering. Pick up Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson. It does a great job explaining it in an easy to understand way.