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Shannone1
08-19-2008, 04:47 PM
So I was at 7th grade orientation today with my 12 year old dd. We had to wait in lines for her schedule, paperwork, ordering yearbook, etc. It's a long, frustrating process but I've been through it enough to know now that this is just how it is, you know ??

We had been to all of those "stations" and were waiting in the longest line yet, this one for school ID and pictures. It was confusing as there were two lines wrapping around each other in the library. I had all 3 of my kids with me and one of my friends was in line ahead of me with her 2 kids. We were catching up on each other's summers and the kids were chatting. Trying to make the best of the long wait.

So this woman starts arguing with her daughter (around 12) about the way everything was set up. Her daughter was trying to tell her that she didn't know where she was supposed to go next. The mom snaps at her says something sarcastic about it being the daughters responsiblity to know where she needed to be. Then she hauls off and SLAPS her across the face. My friend and I were stunned. It's not as if the girl said something that she deserved to be slapped for :eek: They were standing right next to us and we heard the whole thing. My kids looked at me for an explanation and I didn't know what to tell them. The girl started crying and hid her face, probably mortified about this happening in front of all of her classmates.

I just kept thinking that if this mom so easily slapped her in front of 300 strangers, what does she do to her in private ?? :confused3 My girls both leaned in and gave me a little hug. Realizing I guess that although they may get mad at me from time to time...they don't have anything to complain about !!

Now that I'm at home I'm wondering if I should have done something. It was none of my business, but I can't get that poor girl's face out of my mind. :sad2:

Born 2 Fish
08-19-2008, 04:51 PM
This is where a taser would have come in handy. :rotfl2:
(kidding)

BRDof3
08-19-2008, 04:56 PM
I have been known to write down the child protective services hotline on a piece of paper and hand it to the parent, letting them know that this is just the type of thing that causes parents a lot of trouble. Don't even need to say anything, just let them think about it.

Even taking into account the arguments about spanking vs. non-spanking, such a slap (also taking into account that I didn't see it, just read about it) is NOT within the acceptable bounds of parenting behavior. Bad enough in private, worse in public.

That being said, there is little you could have done, except to reassure your own kids, which you did. What you do depends on what level of reaction you are prepared to get. Sounds like you handled it pretty well. A lousy situation for everyone involved.

seabee
08-19-2008, 05:31 PM
Wow! I don't know what I would have done. Rob is right, who knows how that parent would have reacted to you, and your kids were there. If I was alone maybe I might have done something, but what. If she halled off so easily, anything you said probably wouldn't have mattered. Sometimes I wonder why certain people even have children. At least your children feel safe with you, and know that they don't have to worry about that happening to them.

Gatordad
08-19-2008, 05:33 PM
In the words of the baloney brothers, don't get involved.

PolynesianPixie
08-19-2008, 05:33 PM
It breaks my heart when I see that. It seems like I witness this type of thing every time I go to the grocery store. Shannone, despite maybe wanting to, I'm sure I wouldn't have reacted any differently. I think I would have been too shocked. I think you should tell the principle about it though so they can keep an eye on the situation. Teachers are trained to recognize signs of abuse.

Rob, I like your idea....but as a woman of small stature, I don't think I'd be brave enough to interject in that way. I'd be too afraid I'd be slapped next! Distraction may work...like say to the parent something about their adorable, strong-willed child! Having them see that it's not all bad and maybe giving them a second to calm down and realize that there are witnesses.

Another "hand-out" may be this, though.....

http://www.preventchildabuse.org/publications/parents/downloads/twelve_alternatives.pdf

YodaGirl
08-19-2008, 05:48 PM
Wow. That's a rough situation that you had to experience.

I agree that if she would do that in public, what would she do behind closed doors?

I don't think that there was much you could do. People these days can be crazy. If she didn't care about slapping her child, who knows what she woulda done to you?

ibm2010
08-19-2008, 06:12 PM
If you will allow me to play devils advocate for a moment. We all agree it was odd for a parent to slap a child in the face. Could it have been possible that the child called the mom a b**** under their breath? How about something worse? It was obvious that the situation was getting heated between the mother and the daughter. I was popped in the mouth many times for smarting off to my parents. I learned quickly I should refrain from disrespecting my parents. Kids are not always right. Whose way to discipline a child is correct? Is any one way right?

Just looking at the situation from a different angle.

ntsammy5
08-19-2008, 06:16 PM
This is an example of why teachers should be able to carry concealed weapons!

Born 2 Fish
08-19-2008, 06:19 PM
If you will allow me to play devils advocate for a moment. We all agree it was odd for a parent to slap a child in the face. Could it have been possible that the child called the mom a b**** under their breath? How about something worse? It was obvious that the situation was getting heated between the mother and the daughter. I was popped in the mouth many times for smarting off to my parents. I learned quickly I should refrain from disrespecting my parents. Kids are not always right. Whose way to discipline a child is correct? Is any one way right?

Just looking at the situation from a different angle.

This is where a taser would have come in handy. :rotfl2:
(kidding)

Either way !
(kidding)

Brer Bear
08-19-2008, 07:33 PM
This is an example of why teachers should be able to carry concealed weapons!

Flash the mom a glimpse of your 44 and tell "I dare you to do that again!"

By the time kids are that old, I don't think spanking works anymore...just drives the kids to rebel more. Take away her cell phone...THAT would hurt her! My Mom has been a Special Ed teacher (explains a lot don't it!) and 1st grade teacher for over 30 years and she would have walked right up to a parent like that anytime anywhere and told her what she thought! Yes, I am scarred for life.

AuburnJen92
08-19-2008, 07:54 PM
I know y'all are going to flame the hell out of me, but here it goes...

No, she was not right to slap her in public across the face. However, she hit her with an open hand, which in most states is permissible under child abuse laws. Teachers are bound by law to report suspected abuses whether seen in school or outside. As long as the parent does not leave a lasting mark on the minor, it is considered acceptable under the law (at least in the two states I have had a license in).

Now, be that as it may. I don't think I could go that far with my kid. I swat his butt when he gets way out of line, but taking things he loves away from him works better. He is starting to age out of swatting faster than I would like at 4!:eek:

OK, flame away!

RvUsa
08-19-2008, 08:20 PM
Pffft, Pffft, Pffft, bang bang bang, Pfft, Pffft..... dangit, the lighter won't work.... :lmao:

AuburnJen92
08-19-2008, 08:53 PM
Pffft, Pffft, Pffft, bang bang bang, Pfft, Pffft..... dangit, the lighter won't work.... :lmao:

I should have known!;) :lmao:

BRDof3
08-19-2008, 09:21 PM
We're enjoying the fire pit in the backyard, Jen. I'll try to blow some of the smoke your way! :firefight

tellnotails
08-19-2008, 09:21 PM
No, she was not right to slap her in public across the face.

Had it been done in private make it right?????

Shannone1
08-19-2008, 09:46 PM
I know y'all are going to flame the hell out of me, but here it goes...

No, she was not right to slap her in public across the face. However, she hit her with an open hand, which in most states is permissible under child abuse laws. Teachers are bound by law to report suspected abuses whether seen in school or outside. As long as the parent does not leave a lasting mark on the minor, it is considered acceptable under the law (at least in the two states I have had a license in).

Now, be that as it may. I don't think I could go that far with my kid. I swat his butt when he gets way out of line, but taking things he loves away from him works better. He is starting to age out of swatting faster than I would like at 4!:eek:

OK, flame away!

No flames here. There are some circumstances where a slap could be warranted with an older child. An open handed slap does not necessarily mean she is being abused. But she was right next to me and I saw what happened. Her daughter was not backtalking her or being disrespectful. She was just confused about where she was supposed to be. She did not say/do anything that deserved that very public slap in the face. And in front of all of her classmates and their parents too. My heart just broke for her.

des1954
08-20-2008, 04:18 AM
Man... I know my temper when it comes to seeing a child mistreated & this would be one instance my big mouth would have landed me in big trouble!

A 12 year old girl amongst all her friends getting slapped across the face? Oh, no, no, no!! I do believe in a well applied paddle on the butt - but never in the face!! That was a pure anger response and had nothing to do with correction. No matter what the girl may have said - it did not warrant that kind of reaction from her mom. There are other ways it could have been handled.

That poor girl was probably damaged more by the embarassment of her friends witnessing what her mom did, than the actual slap. I'm hoping a teacher caught a glimpse of this "mom" in action and either called CPS or keeps an eye on the girl for signs of abuse.

My DH has to reign me in sometimes when I see people being butt-heads with their kids. I get right in their faces - given the opportunity.

I'm very intolerant of abuse to kids, animals, and elderly people - and what this mom did to her kid was out & out abuse - IMHO.

Not flaming you Jen cause I know you didn't write the laws - but just because something is legal, doesn't make it right.

Born 2 Fish
08-20-2008, 05:06 AM
Good morn'n Deb. Gotcha an early morning, huh ? Well here's to making it a good one! And I hope it's as good'a day as we are spose to have in TN.:thumbsup2

mirmartinez
08-20-2008, 08:23 AM
We had two wonderful parents around here that made the paper today.

They did not find the need to slap their 9 and 11 yr old.

They just tasered them.

http://timesonline.com/articles/2008/08/19/news/doc48ab77798cf15165664121.txt

BRDof3
08-20-2008, 09:38 AM
We had two wonderful parents around here that made the paper today.

They did not find the need to slap their 9 and 11 yr old.

They just tasered them.

http://timesonline.com/articles/2008/08/19/news/doc48ab77798cf15165664121.txt

Maybe we could have used that on the parent at the school orientation. :eek:

AuburnJen92
08-20-2008, 07:10 PM
Had it been done in private make it right?????

I won't even dignify you with an answer since you intend to antagonize.

AuburnJen92
08-20-2008, 07:16 PM
No flames here. There are some circumstances where a slap could be warranted with an older child. An open handed slap does not necessarily mean she is being abused. But she was right next to me and I saw what happened. Her daughter was not backtalking her or being disrespectful. She was just confused about where she was supposed to be. She did not say/do anything that deserved that very public slap in the face. And in front of all of her classmates and their parents too. My heart just broke for her.

I know your heart broke. I wanted you to know the law too because sometimes we lead with our hearts and get ourselves in trouble. (been there and done that) I, in your situation, would tend to be the person who would have to hold myself back from going and saying something myself, but knowing what I do about the law, I have to. From what you told of the situation, it was uncalled for, unwarranted, and callus. If we could all just take them under our arms...

I then see the after affects of the parent behavior on the kids as it is slapped right back on unsuspecting adults' faces in schools. It is really sad to watch and really sad to see out in the workplace when they get there because they find that they are not employable because of attitude and work habits.

seabee
08-20-2008, 07:21 PM
I was kidding about the shock collar! I can't believe someone would actually do that. Again I say, some people should just not have children. You need a license to drive a car, but anyone can have a child.:sad2:

AuburnJen92
08-20-2008, 07:27 PM
I'm hoping a teacher caught a glimpse of this "mom" in action and either called CPS or keeps an eye on the girl for signs of abuse.

I'm very intolerant of abuse to kids, animals, and elderly people - and what this mom did to her kid was out & out abuse - IMHO.

Not flaming you Jen cause I know you didn't write the laws - but just because something is legal, doesn't make it right.

I don't consider what you said a flame. I took some pieces here to respond here Deb. Teachers have to walk such a fine line these days. The state has made it even harder on us because we HAVE to call now, or risk losing our license. However, if we call for something that is not abuse, we are in trouble as well. Even though this girl, as described in the situation, did not deserve the treatment given by the parent, she did not receive abusive treatment under the law. I know it sounds harsh. You are right however, the parent would need an eye kept on her by the school. There were points that were brought up about what goes on at home, which could be worse. They could also not be. It could be that the parent just lost it that one time. Nobody really knows. I don't agree with everything CPS does, but I know that we have to have a very strong suspicion to call. We, as professionals, never take that phone call lightly. It is always a family at stake, however dysfunctional it may be.

Since I have had a child of my own, I can't even read the newspaper of abuse of a child, drowning of a child, killing of a child, dog, guinea pig, hamster, or person, much less a cockroach. Something changes when you have a child of your own. I always dismissed it when people told me that, but it does. It really does change you in so many more ways that anyone can ever prepare you for.

AuburnJen92
08-20-2008, 07:31 PM
I was kidding about the shock collar! I can't believe someone would actually do that. Again I say, some people should just not have children. You need a license to drive a car, but anyone can have a child.:sad2:

Isn't that the truth sister!

mirmartinez
08-20-2008, 07:56 PM
I don't consider what you said a flame. I took some pieces here to respond here Deb. Teachers have to walk such a fine line these days. The state has made it even harder on us because we HAVE to call now, or risk losing our license. However, if we call for something that is not abuse, we are in trouble as well. Even though this girl, as described in the situation, did not deserve the treatment given by the parent, she did not receive abusive treatment under the law. I know it sounds harsh. You are right however, the parent would need an eye kept on her by the school. There were points that were brought up about what goes on at home, which could be worse. They could also not be. It could be that the parent just lost it that one time. Nobody really knows. I don't agree with everything CPS does, but I know that we have to have a very strong suspicion to call. We, as professionals, never take that phone call lightly. It is always a family at stake, however dysfunctional it may be.

Since I have had a child of my own, I can't even read the newspaper of abuse of a child, drowning of a child, killing of a child, dog, guinea pig, hamster, or person, much less a cockroach. Something changes when you have a child of your own. I always dismissed it when people told me that, but it does. It really does change you in so many more ways that anyone can ever prepare you for.

My daughter is three years old and attends daycare/preschool at the ymca 3 days a week while I am at school, last semester I received a phone call from CYS (child youth services), the gentleman informed me that he was called in to investigate abuse against my daughter, I was like what happen, who hurt her? His response was me.
I was floored, the ymca staff called them as required by law, due a bruise on her stomache. My daughter, when asked what happened said "mommy hurt me"
I had no clue what he was talking about, I kept thinking what bruise, then it clicked.
My daughter had colored on her self with green marker the day before, I attempted to remove it when I bathed her, but she complained that the scrubbing hurt so I stopped.
I told the cys guy this, he told me he would call me right back, 5 minutes later he calls and said they were able to remove the bruise( green marker) with a little baby oil, soap, and water.
He said though he realized as did the daycare staff, that the injury was really marker, he still had to continue with the investigation (though he would report the allegation as nonfounded).

2 weeks later I receive a letter that says, blah blah...... case worker found no abuse....this file will be closed in 4 months..... blah blah

Point of this story is I was really peaved at her teacher for even thinking I could hurt my baby, stormin mad, WHAT KIND OF IDIOT CONFUSES MARKER FOR A BRUISE,....... Until (my sister a second grade teacher in PA, explained that if it is suspected and not reported the teacher could go to jail, school could lose funding, etc....)I realized that maybe I should be thankful that my daughter has so many people in her corner.

So I am thankful for the teachers and all the people, who put their necks out for our children

Shannone1
08-20-2008, 09:53 PM
Since I have had a child of my own, I can't even read the newspaper of abuse of a child, drowning of a child, killing of a child, dog, guinea pig, hamster, or person, much less a cockroach. Something changes when you have a child of your own. I always dismissed it when people told me that, but it does. It really does change you in so many more ways that anyone can ever prepare you for.

Isn't that the truth !! I haven't watched the evening news in 15 years !! If there is something really important I'll catch it on my AOL welcome screen. The news is very depressing and scary. I also don't want my kids walking into the room while the news is on...who the heck knows what they would hear ?!?!?!

seabee
08-21-2008, 12:50 AM
You aren't kidding Shannone! Last year DD9 had an assignment to watch the news and do a "report" on a story. After that 1/2 hour of "news" I had to explain prostitution, murder for drugs, and what is malestation. It was wonderful. We ended up going online and finding a story.:sad2:

tellnotails
08-21-2008, 05:40 AM
My kids looked at me for an explanation and I didn't know what to tell them.

This is a great thread you started..........but this sentence is the one that all of us parents should ask ourselves every day.....


Our kids are mere clay in our hands............they look for us for guidance and leadership...............they will judge right and wrong by what they see thier parents do...

So often is the excuse in life that ........its none of my business........look away.............stay out of it..........etc......

I look back in my childhood to the many confrontations that I witnessed..........and the the things about them I remember most .....were the teachers, parents, coaches, pastors, priests, etc..................... that stepped out of the box and set the right example and excepted the conciquences for thier actions..........because they were true leaders by example......I will never forget them for it.....:grouphug:

BigDaddyRog
08-21-2008, 09:10 AM
Ive held off posting here because I its a very touchy subject. There are times when a kid deserves a good slap in the face, Im sorry...but I DO believe this. I have had to slap mine on several occasions.....being that Im a big guy, and my daughters are very small and helpless.....most would think IM A MONSTER for such physical abuse. Maybe I am....BUT I dont think public humiliation is a way to teach a lesson. Someone said..."So if it would have happened in private, would that have been better?" YES, in my opinion....HELL YES!!! I think a good solid squeeze to the upper arm with a whispered "If you dont knock it off, when we get to the car, Im gonna rip this arm off at the socket and beat you with it!" would get the point across to the kid, and save the public humiliation to the kid AND not have upset the surrounding people. Ive never had to slap my kids in public...thank god they've never crossed the limit so badly that a smack in the back of the head couldnt wait till we were alone and I could tell her why she just got tagged. And, again, maybe BECAUSE Im a big guy....usually the threat of kicking their butt is as good as actually kicking their butt!! My kids arent angels...they're just regular old kids, special ONLY to me. Come on...havent you ever been out somewhere and witnessed a kid acting like a spoiled brat and thought to yourself "If that were MY kid, Id beat the hell out of him?" There are times when a kid simply deserves what ever you decide is proper punishment.

2goofycampers
08-21-2008, 09:15 AM
Come on...havent you ever been out somewhere and witnessed a kid acting like a spoiled brat and thought to yourself "If that were MY kid, Id beat the hell out of him?"

Just about every time I'm out!

But, I'd like to slap the parent for letting the kid act that way.

BRDof3
08-21-2008, 09:23 AM
You're right, it's a touchy subject at best. I was telling my wife about it when the thread first came out and her reaction was pretty much the opposite of mine in some ways.

Being the "armchair quarterback" is a lot easier than being in the game. I won't even try to pretend that I have always acted within my own principles when I was in the middle of the scene. All I can do is look at 3 good kids and know that we have managed to do a pretty good job so far. We're just working on it one day at a time, and trying to keep that overall feeling.

Just Beachy
08-21-2008, 09:27 AM
Just about every time I'm out!

But, I'd like to slap the parent for letting the kid act that way.

My sentiments exactly!!

Us3
08-21-2008, 10:38 AM
I could never slap one of my girls on the face and feel "ok" about it. :worried: Lord knows I was threatened as a kid "Girl, we brought you into this world and we can take you out"...so trust me, it never got that far.

Dh and I work REALLY hard at being good parents and we're trying are best to teach our girls to be good, respectful kids. We only have two old enough to show for it at this point, and thank goodness they are both good, respectful and friendly girls. I do spank my kids from time to time and I ALWAYS follow through with threats (teaching them consequences for their actions). That has been good enough for me so far. I only have 1 tween and she has entered the "drama" stage...so Lord please give me the strength to get through the teen years! :upsidedow

I also think that public humiliating your kids is uncalled for UNLESS the kid was purposely publicly humiliating himself and/or his parents. In that case I might just drag that kid by the ear right out the door....and a trip to the ol' wood shed would be in order! (ha)

I don't pretend to know all of the answers...I'm just trying to do what I think is best....and its NOT easy. It worked on me (and I was a head strong kid)...and so far it's working on my head strong girls. From 18 months - 3 years my precious girls are monsters. I have 2 past that stage...and luckily the youngest is not as difficult as the first two. I'm just hoping all of this hard work I'm doing during the early years will pay off. :rolleyes:

tellnotails
08-24-2008, 08:50 PM
I could never slap one of my girls on the face and feel "ok" about it. :worried:

I was surprised at the number of posts that disagree..............and are to afraid to act......:guilty:

DisneyBishops
08-24-2008, 09:28 PM
Raised 3 pretty good kids. Never had to slap one in the face. I never had to spank anyone of them but once or twice in their childhood. But as I am a big guy they never pushed me too much. Although the teen years are kinda tough. Sometimes you want to kill a teenager.
We also get a good laugh as when they were younger we would go out to eat and if one acted up I would also tell them ok keep it up and we are going to take a walk. Heck worked everytime, never had to take one of them for a walk. I guess sometime you just get good kids no matter how bad your parenting skills are. I am sure my parenting skills haven't always been great.
And yes there were times I wanted to slap mine but never did. Those dang teenage girls can be a real challenge.