Grand Californian Trip Report

[tjkraz]

Our family stayed at the Grand Californian last week on DVC points and I thought I'd share a few comments:

* At WDW we've stayed at AKL, BCV, BWV, SSR and OKW among the DVC/Deluxe category. GC definitely tops all of those resorts. Everything has a very high-quality feel to it. The Arts & Crafts style isn't my favorite, but still everything was very impressive.

* Gotta love having the monorail cruising by your balcony all day long:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c328/tjkraz/Disneyland/IMG_4332.jpg

* All of the normal hotel perks were offered--daily cleaning, newspaper, turndown service, etc. It was nice coming back to a room with a made-up bed each day.

* Our room was a standard guest room which included a queen bed and bunk beds. It also had a small refrigerator. We've never stayed in a studio for any extended period, so this was uncharted waters for a Disney Vacation.

It actually worked out quite well. We still at breakfast in the room most days. A couple other days we even got lunch from the resort's quick service restaurant and ate in the room. We brought more clothes than a typical Disney trip (we normally stay in a 1B or larger and use the washer/dryer), but my wife found the laundry room and did a couple loads midway thru the trip.

I'm not sure that we will ever give up our preference for the larger villas, but at least we know that a Studio-sized room wouldn't be the end of the world. :)

* We got a DVC Pocket Perks booklet at check-in. The DL perks are even better than WDW. :thumbsup2 They offer discounts of 10% off almost every resort and theme park dining location including counter service. There were also some nice discounts at Downtown Disney (LEGO store, Build-A-Bear, etc.)

* The entire complex is just so compact and easy to get around. Walking from our hotel to Disneyland is no further than BWV to Epcot...and that's the furthest destination you'll ever have to walk.

Walking from the GC to either Downtown Disney or California Adventure is about the same as going from the BoardWalk Villas down to the BoardWalk itself. (Or Beach Club to Stormalong Bay.) It's just that close.

* We did 5 days in the parks and that's a good duration to be able to see everything. Probably could have done it in 4 (remember, late summer crowds), but we took things easy a couple of the days.

* Toy Story Mania was awesome...but I wish it had FastPass. No FP at the Nemo Subs either, and that's one attraction we never got around to.

* Another great perk--Disney Visa cardholders get free stroller rentals at DL and DCA!

* It's interesting to see how DL and WDW have different procedures and philosophies for things. For instance, there are no ticket finger scans at DL. Guests don't even scan their own tickets--the CMs at the gate do it. Things were more disjointed at Downtown Disney in that the non-Disney stores didn't accept Disney gift cards. Also, the hotels don't use the WDW-style "Key to the World". Although they do have plastic key cards and you can charge to the room, they aren't specially printed for each guest and you can't put park admission on them.

I'm not saying that one approach is better than the other...just that it's different. WDW regulars who visit DL for the first time are probably in for some surprises.

* There's a lot less FastPass in DL as well. I've been told it has to do with the smaller pathways and more compact nature of the Disneyland park--it only makes things worse at DL if they have guests wandering around, taking up space, waiting for their FP time to arrive. That makes sense.

But I'm surprised they don't have FP for Toy Story Mania. The day we rode it we were one of the hundreds trudging to its location at the back of the park right at opening to get in line. By the time we reached the queue, we were beyond the 80 minute mark--and this was 10 minutes after opening. :eek:

Our wait for TSM ended up being only 40 minutes as people weren't exactly bunched together tightly in the queue at that point. But for a park with its own attendance problems, it seems a shame to have people standing in line all day long for an hour or more rather than out doing other things, dining, shopping, etc. DCA is more open and could certainly handle the crowds.

* I got to tour the Grand Californian Villas and they are just as impressive as the resort itself. The models are about 1/4 mile away at the sales center, but walking in the door you would swear you are in the GC. They continue the theme of the resort very, very well.

I was fortunate to arrange to meet with one of the Disney Imagineers working on the project while there. He spent nearly and hour showing me around the model and talking about all aspects of the villa design, resort expansion, and so on.

He also shared a new piece of concept art with me:

http://dvcnews.com/images/stories/gc_concept2.jpg

Later today or tomorrow I'm hoping to have an article up on my website with some details from that tour/interview.

* It really was a very nice stay. I'll be watching anxiously to see the point charts and purchase prices. While I may not want to visit DL as often as WDW, I could certainly envision getting a small add-on to facilitate a trip every 3 years.

Let me know if I can answer any questions!
Tim

[MinnieFan4ever]

Sounds like you are having a wonderful time. My husband and I went to DL for its 50th Birthday. I can't wait to get back. We stayed at the GC as well. Just a beautiful resort.

Enjoy the rest of your trip!:thumbsup2

[Meriweather]

Our very favorite resort!!
We love the Arts and Crafts style.
DH always has to go on the resort tour...and he ends up leading it a lot of times :rolleyes:
Glad you are having a good time!!

[cseca]

Thanks for the info!
We're going to DL in a couple months I am excited to see the model but also reluctant to add in light of the AKV mess.
But then again with the handful of rooms it'll probably sold out by founding members anyways :)

[DebbieB]

I stayed at Paradise Pier in April for 5 nights and Grand Californian for 1 night in June. I just loved GC, it is so nice. I really enjoyed DL & DCA, it was nice to do something a little different but still Disney. I may consider an add-on at GCV.

[ACDSNY]

Great trip report, I'm glad you enjoyed your stay at the GC. We love staying at the GC too.

[Longhairbear]

Is the concept art the GCH? Or is that a fourth hotel at DLR?

[Laneychris]

Thanks for the great trip report, we are planning on going next June, can't wait!

[tjkraz]

Is the concept art the GCH? Or is that a fourth hotel at DLR?

It's a new angle of the Grand Californian expansion project currently underway. :)

[tidefan]

tjkraz,

We were out at DL in July, staying on points at the Disneyland Hotel (LOVED IT!). I was wondering if you heard any of the rumors that we heard, most notably that:

1) Disney is considering putting a waterpark in at the Strawberry Fields location (first I had ever heard of that), and

2) Disney is considering tearing down the DLH and building something more along the lines of what was just built in Tokyo, and

3) The Cast parking area behind DLH & PPH (behind the models) is DVC's next targeted area (depending on what happens with the DLH).

Now, some of this came from a lifeguard at the Neverland pool, so take it for whatever its worth...

[LIFERBABE]

Thank you Tim for posting such a great report!!

We check into GCH on Thursday night!:cool1:

This will be our first trip to DLR and thank you for all the tips:goodvibes

[tjkraz]

1) Disney is considering putting a waterpark in at the Strawberry Fields location (first I had ever heard of that), and

Locals have told me that they don't think a waterpark would go over well in Anaheim. The weather is more temperate there since they get their weather systems off of the Pacific. We seemed to hit something of a heat wave, but I've been told it can be cool during the day even in the middle of the summer. Our trip was the first week of August, and we were wearing jackets after sundown.

It doesn't seem like the best use of the land from Disney's perspective.

2) Disney is considering tearing down the DLH and building something more along the lines of what was just built in Tokyo, and

There seems to be a great deal of indecision about what to do with the DLH. We asked a couple of people and officially got a "we don't know anything" response.

Websites that specialize in DL rumors suggest that Disney is still trying to decide whether to do a major refurb or rebuild from the ground up. The rebuild seems like the wise decision long-term, but it would mean losing 40% of Disneyland's guest room revenue for 2-3 years. That's a tough pill to swallow.

3) The Cast parking area behind DLH & PPH (behind the models) is DVC's next targeted area (depending on what happens with the DLH).

That's a big undeveloped area, but I think the DLH will probably be the first domino to fall. Once they decide what to do there--and whether it will include a DVC component or not--they can move on to other things.

Disneyland is a different animal compared to WDW in that it only has the three hotels. Its annual occupancy percent is always in the high 90s. And as great as it is to make $15-20,000 per pop in DVC sales, renting a guest room for $400 per night over the next 50 years is worth a whole lot more than what Disney stands to get from point sales. I've been told that DVC had to fight pretty hard to get into the Grand Californian at all. Even with this expansion, DVC is getting less than 50% of the new addition. They are adding over 200 cash rooms along with the 50 DVC villas.

[tjkraz]

Thank you Tim for posting such a great report!!

We check into GCH on Thursday night!:cool1:

This will be our first trip to DLR and thank you for all the tips:goodvibes

Have fun!!!

If you have the standard room category booked (non theme park view), request something in the courtyard. The monorail runs right thru that courtyard all day long. We were seeing the new red monorail, too, but I don't think we ever got a photo of it.

Make sure you get to DCA right at opening for Toy Story Mania. Like I said, 10-15 minutes after opening the line was huge, but people were leaving big gaps so the size was deceptive. They did do a good job of putting up cover so you should be in the shade most of the time.

Be sure to try the Monster's Inc ride at DCA. Disney doesn't make many new dark rides these days, and I think it's one of the better ones in all of the parks.

The DL versions of PotC, Buzz and Space Mountain are better than WDW. Haunted Mansion is a toss-up now that the WDW version got plussed a couple years ago. As for Big Thunder, I liked the theming better at DL but the ride itself is better at WDW. And Splash Mnt is definitely better at WDW.

Make sure you get FastPasses for Indy, but take your time walking thru the queue because it's a lot of fun.

And don't forget your DVC ID card because we got discounts everywhere including Blue Bayou (DL), Storyteller's Cafe (GC), White Water Cafe (GC) and Goofy's Kitchen (DLH).

Oh, and try to take a few minutes to check out the Villa model rooms. The sales center is right across the street from the Grand Californian, so it's about a 5 minute walk. Just walk out the main entrance...up the drive...straight across the street and then keep walking about 200 feet. The sales center is a small building pretty much straight ahead and to the left of the Disneyland Hotel.

[squidmo]

It's a new angle of the Grand Californian expansion project currently underway. :)


I'm guessing that this must be the side that faces DCA. Are they going with an urban theme for that area of the park, that this side will blend with?

[bgraham34]

I would love to stay there one day. Thats for posting your report.

[tidefan]

Locals have told me that they don't think a waterpark would go over well in Anaheim. The weather is more temperate there since they get their weather systems off of the Pacific. We seemed to hit something of a heat wave, but I've been told it can be cool during the day even in the middle of the summer. Our trip was the first week of August, and we were wearing jackets after sundown.

It doesn't seem like the best use of the land from Disney's perspective.

This struck me as odd too. Actually, this is what I got from the lifeguard at the Neverland pool, so again, take it with a grain of salt. But of all the things I thought that they might do with that land, a waterpark hadn't crossed my mind...

There seems to be a great deal of indecision about what to do with the DLH. We asked a couple of people and officially got a "we don't know anything" response.

Websites that specialize in DL rumors suggest that Disney is still trying to decide whether to do a major refurb or rebuild from the ground up. The rebuild seems like the wise decision long-term, but it would mean losing 40% of Disneyland's guest room revenue for 2-3 years. That's a tough pill to swallow.

Agree with this too. What the person was telling me was that the infrastructure of the hotel does not lend itself to being "refurbed", whatever that means. The other thing that was odd (at least in this conversation) was that he said that they would keep the pool area. Now I don't know much about construction, but it would seem to me that if you were going to bulldoze the DLH, it'd be easier and cheaper just to bulldoze the whole thing and rebuild the pool...

That's a big undeveloped area, but I think the DLH will probably be the first domino to fall. Once they decide what to do there--and whether it will include a DVC component or not--they can move on to other things.

Disneyland is a different animal compared to WDW in that it only has the three hotels. Its annual occupancy percent is always in the high 90s. And as great as it is to make $15-20,000 per pop in DVC sales, renting a guest room for $400 per night over the next 50 years is worth a whole lot more than what Disney stands to get from point sales. I've been told that DVC had to fight pretty hard to get into the Grand Californian at all. Even with this expansion, DVC is getting less than 50% of the new addition. They are adding over 200 cash rooms along with the 50 DVC villas.

The DVC lady at the kiosk said that DVC was somwhat of a trial and that Disney wanted to see how many days people would spend at the resort in DVC. Apparently, the hotel's average stay is only 2-3 days. She said that they were hoping that DVC guests would stay for 5 or more, equaling more money spent in the parks. She was very adamant that GCV would not be the last DVC in the area.

BTW, before this trip, I would have never thought of owning at DL, however, we loved it. We are serously considering adding on enough for an every 3 year trip...

[wdw4life]

The rumor of a water park had been going on for years. IIRC that was around before DCA was built. I don't see it ever happening. Winters get cold around here. Not freezing temperatures but cold enough. In fact, the water parks around me close after labor day. I don't know if even Disney could keep one open year round.

[YellowMickeyPonchos]

There are a few things to remember about the whole DVC in California thing. Only recently, state laws changed so that they could actually develop, build, and most imporatantly sell DVC here. That's why the extinct "DVC Newport Beach Project" never got off the concept board. The reps have only been allowed to be visible and active sellers for a little more than two years (I think - so hard to remember now).

Anyway, my point is that now they have their foot in the door in the state of CA. I think that would be what the DVC CM meant. They can also choose to build here in other locations - think along the lines of Hilton Head, Vero Beach, and the new Hawaii project. I can see them adding on to the DLH, but not at the cost of other things on property. That would be a long time coming because of the DCA rehab.

I'll be sad because we won't be able to exchange for regular GCH rooms anymore, once the DVC wing opens...

On your other points about DVC and rehabbing the DLH:
I've woken up really early a couple times and walked the DLH grounds at 5am. It really gives you a chance to absorb the history and the details of the property! That being said, I can also understand what they mean about the infrastructure of the DLH and rehabbing issues. If you look at the architecture patterns of the DLH Towers and the subsquent grounds architecture, with the waterfalls going below ground level by the Wonder Tower, it's easy to see why they would pretty much have their hands full in structural remodelling. They would really have to close the entire hotel for safety purposes - think of all the lost revenue!

When they did the last construction changes and hotel rehab, they took out as many of the older structures as they could - the towers and convention center were effectively untouched. The old monorail station and restaurant was destroyed, along with the Bungalows, the Japanese Garden Villas, the huge gift shops, the old Goofy's Kitchen, etc. The pool area previously extended almost to the waterfalls and that was restructured to add the waterslides Remember the paddleboat lagoon? Then, there is the abandoned "Dancing Waters" in the back by the Waterfalls. Over half the time, the lower levels of the waterfalls are blocked access, for safety reasons. One year it was always open, the next, ropes were up and the paths were blocked. I can see where they wouldn't want to touch the pools and plumbing structures that interconnect all of those features. What a nightmare!

I also agree that a water park wouldn't be successful for them here. It doesn't get hot enough for long enough to warrant it. Because it cools down at night, the water would require heating units all year - an expensive proposition. Look at all the folks on the boards here who complain that they can't swim in the DLH pool because it isn't heated. Even Raging Waters in San Dimas is only open from select May weekends through select September weekends. Public pools here close by then end of August, too. Different climate!

[Longhairbear]

I'm guessing that this must be the side that faces DCA. Are they going with an urban theme for that area of the park, that this side will blend with?
That wing faces the lagoon in DCA. That whole side of the park is going to be Victorian, similar to Toy Story Midway Mania's architecture. Pizza O Mow Mow, and Burger Invasion are being torn down and replaced with a Victorian Beer Garden.
From the new concept art, you really can't see where the rooftop viewing area is for the lagoon show. I am assuming the new DVC pool will be behind the right hand side of the picture.

[drewmisha]

I wonder what the annual dues for the dvc gcv would be. With only 50 units, I hope the dues won't be as high as the ones in florida. It should probably be 1/4 of what the current dvc dues are. After all, it seems that dvc gcv is sharing the space with the hotel rather than the other way around. Any speculative ideas?

[LIFERBABE]

Have fun!!!

If you have the standard room category booked (non theme park view), request something in the courtyard. The monorail runs right thru that courtyard all day long. We were seeing the new red monorail, too, but I don't think we ever got a photo of it.

Make sure you get to DCA right at opening for Toy Story Mania. Like I said, 10-15 minutes after opening the line was huge, but people were leaving big gaps so the size was deceptive. They did do a good job of putting up cover so you should be in the shade most of the time.

Be sure to try the Monster's Inc ride at DCA. Disney doesn't make many new dark rides these days, and I think it's one of the better ones in all of the parks.

The DL versions of PotC, Buzz and Space Mountain are better than WDW. Haunted Mansion is a toss-up now that the WDW version got plussed a couple years ago. As for Big Thunder, I liked the theming better at DL but the ride itself is better at WDW. And Splash Mnt is definitely better at WDW.

Make sure you get FastPasses for Indy, but take your time walking thru the queue because it's a lot of fun.

And don't forget your DVC ID card because we got discounts everywhere including Blue Bayou (DL), Storyteller's Cafe (GC), White Water Cafe (GC) and Goofy's Kitchen (DLH).

Oh, and try to take a few minutes to check out the Villa model rooms. The sales center is right across the street from the Grand Californian, so it's about a 5 minute walk. Just walk out the main entrance...up the drive...straight across the street and then keep walking about 200 feet. The sales center is a small building pretty much straight ahead and to the left of the Disneyland Hotel.

Thank you Tim for all the great tips!! I am printing this out:wizard:

I can't believe we will be there tomorrow night!!:cool1:

I will request courtyard. I tried to book concierge, but they were sold out so I just went with standard.

[tjkraz]

I wonder what the annual dues for the dvc gcv would be. With only 50 units, I hope the dues won't be as high as the ones in florida. It should probably be 1/4 of what the current dvc dues are. After all, it seems that dvc gcv is sharing the space with the hotel rather than the other way around. Any speculative ideas?

Since dues are expressed on a per-point basis, I wouldn't expect the small size of the Villa component to have any positive effect on the dues. There's no distinction made as to who is sharing with whom--the entire resort operating budget is calculated and owners will pay dues based upon the size of their presence in the resort.

Let's say that the DVC villas end up being 10% of the resort. The resort will issue budget projects for all the typical items: front desk, housekeeping, recreation (pool), landscaping, and so on. Whatever the budgeted figures are in those areas, the DVC owners would collectively pay 10%.

The point charts will play a large role in this. If the per-night costs for a single room are higher than what we've seen before, there will be more points in circulation. More points means that each point pays a smaller portion of the dues.

Example:

If you have an operating budget of $500k and 100k points in circulation, the dues will be $5 per point.

But if you have a budget of $500k and 150k points, each point only pays $3.33 in dues. Of course, under this second option it would cost more to spend a single night at the resort so members really aren't saving anything.

If anything I would expect dues to be higher than FL since the California cost-of-living is greater. Property taxes could also be an issue.

[ACDSNY]

I expect dues will be around the same as SSR as GC will not have any transportation costs to budget for.

[tjkraz]

I expect dues will be around the same as SSR as GC will not have any transportation costs to budget for.

Unless you have some insider information, I still think we need to wait for the point charts to make any educated guesses.

While the operating costs may (or may not) be similar to a resort like SSR, the number of points over which those costs will be spread is completely unknown. The points chart will play a large role in determining how much weight each point will bear.

Property taxes will also play a role, and my understanding is that CA tends to be noticeably higher than FL.

[toocherie]

Unless you have some insider information, I still think we need to wait for the point charts to make any educated guesses.

While the operating costs may (or may not) be similar to a resort like SSR, the number of points over which those costs will be spread is completely unknown. The points chart will play a large role in determining how much weight each point will bear.

Property taxes will also play a role, and my understanding is that CA tends to be noticeably higher than FL.


actually, unless the property ownership was transferred recently, property taxes should not be bad--Calif. has Prop. 13 which limits tax increases to 2% every year unless there is a change in ownership or other trigger (rather than many states which re-assess based on value every year). Since the law was enacted many years ago hopefully Disney structured any transfer that might have taken place to take advantage of exceptions which would have kept the taxes stable (and at rates dating back to 1978).

[tjkraz]

actually, unless the property ownership was transferred recently, property taxes should not be bad--Calif. has Prop. 13 which limits tax increases to 2% every year unless there is a change in ownership or other trigger (rather than many states which re-assess based on value every year). Since the law was enacted many years ago hopefully Disney structured any transfer that might have taken place to take advantage of exceptions which would have kept the taxes stable (and at rates dating back to 1978).

Did not know that. Thanks for the info!

[dwelty]

actually, unless the property ownership was transferred recently, property taxes should not be bad--Calif. has Prop. 13 which limits tax increases to 2% every year unless there is a change in ownership or other trigger (rather than many states which re-assess based on value every year). Since the law was enacted many years ago hopefully Disney structured any transfer that might have taken place to take advantage of exceptions which would have kept the taxes stable (and at rates dating back to 1978).

Not exacty right. You are right about how prop 13 works in relation to increasing taxes, however, the assesed value of a structure is determined when construction is finished. And is based on land and structure value.The Grand would have been assesed at it's year 2000 value, and that is when the 2% a year rule kicks in.
The law does not mean that every tax rate is set to 1978 values, it says after initial valuation, tax rates can increase no more than 2% a year)


The value of the Grand will be re-assesed when the addition is finished, but the value will only be increased in an amount equal to the cost of new construction, not a new assesed market value.

I know all of this because I live in California and recently did an addition to my house.

Suprisingly, the tax rate is actually lower in California than in Florida. What makes property taxes generally higher in California than in Florida is the fact that both rates are based on property valuation, and California has generally higher property values than Florida, Especially comparing Orange County California to Orange County Florida.

An interesting side note, the Democratic wing of the California ledgislature has been trying to overturn prop 13 for years because it limits the amount they can raise taxes, however, the law requires a 2/3 vote to be overturned, so they have not been successful. :cool1:

[stopher1]

First off - thanks Tim for the great report. I loved reading it. We were just out there last month staying at the DLH on points. It was terrific, and we had a wonderful time. DW, 1st DS and I are all CA natives, and I worked at DL in the '80's in hs and college - so I have a natural affinity for my favorite Disney park... and am so very excited about adding on at the GC when able. I got to see those beautiful models too, and was sure to take tons of pictures. I read your updates on your website the past couple of days too - and really enjoyed them. Thanks!!

When they did the last construction changes and hotel rehab, they took out as many of the older structures as they could - the towers and convention center were effectively untouched. The old monorail station and restaurant was destroyed, along with the Bungalows, the Japanese Garden Villas, the huge gift shops, the old Goofy's Kitchen, etc. The pool area previously extended almost to the waterfalls and that was restructured to add the waterslides Remember the paddleboat lagoon? Then, there is the abandoned "Dancing Waters" in the back by the Waterfalls. Over half the time, the lower levels of the waterfalls are blocked access, for safety reasons. One year it was always open, the next, ropes were up and the paths were blocked. I can see where they wouldn't want to touch the pools and plumbing structures that interconnect all of those features. What a nightmare!


I remember all of these things! It was a sad day when the bungalows came down, and sad when the monorail no longer actually took you to the hotel complex... oh well - overall I like DTD - but those changes sure made the DLH a different place. I love the waterfalls, but it was really sad to walk by the old "Dancing Waters" area last month and remember that kitschy show. DW and I spent our 1st anniversary at the hotel and many times would go for dinner at the park and wander over to the hotel to enjoy the grounds.


I also agree that a water park wouldn't be successful for them here. It doesn't get hot enough for long enough to warrant it. Because it cools down at night, the water would require heating units all year - an expensive proposition. Look at all the folks on the boards here who complain that they can't swim in the DLH pool because it isn't heated. Even Raging Waters in San Dimas is only open from select May weekends through select September weekends. Public pools here close by then end of August, too. Different climate!

Yeah, growing up in So. Cal, the few water parks we had back then were definitely seasonal. The few that are there today are seasonal. That water park story has circulated for years, but while I would personally LOVE to have a Disney quality water park in So Cal - I don't believe it would work very well.

[toocherie]

Not exacty right. You are right about how prop 13 works in relation to increasing taxes, however, the assesed value of a structure is determined when construction is finished. And is based on land and structure value.The Grand would have been assesed at it's year 2000 value, and that is when the 2% a year rule kicks in.
The law does not mean that every tax rate is set to 1978 values, it says after initial valuation, tax rates can increase no more than 2% a year)


The value of the Grand will be re-assesed when the addition is finished, but the value will only be increased in an amount equal to the cost of new construction, not a new assesed market value.

I know all of this because I live in California and recently did an addition to my house.

Suprisingly, the tax rate is actually lower in California than in Florida. What makes property taxes generally higher in California than in Florida is the fact that both rates are based on property valuation, and California has generally higher property values than Florida, Especially comparing Orange County California to Orange County Florida.

An interesting side note, the Democratic wing of the California ledgislature has been trying to overturn prop 13 for years because it limits the amount they can raise taxes, however, the law requires a 2/3 vote to be overturned, so they have not been successful. :cool1:

Yes, you're right that the STRUCTURE will be re-assessed, but I don't believe the land component gets re-assessed. There are two different categories of assessments on California tax bills--land and improvements. Presuming (which I don't know for sure) that Disney has owned the land under the Grand since 1978 the land value (which in my opinion would be the largest component of value) should not have increased more than 2% per year since then . . . . unless Disney transferred the ownership to a subsidiary in a way that did not come under the exceptions for re-assessment.

[toocherie]

also, it's interesting to note that there have been not only attempts at overturning Prop. 13 in its entirety, but also attempts to create a "split roll" scenario, where residential properties would continue to be protected by the Prop. 13 provisions, but commercial properties would be re-assessed on an annual basis to market value--that would certainly have an effect on Disney and DVC costs if that happened--but given the strong business lobby in Calif. I don't see that coming to fruition.

[dwelty]

Yes, you're right that the STRUCTURE will be re-assessed, but I don't believe the land component gets re-assessed. There are two different categories of assessments on California tax bills--land and improvements. Presuming (which I don't know for sure) that Disney has owned the land under the Grand since 1978 the land value (which in my opinion would be the largest component of value) should not have increased more than 2% per year since then . . . . unless Disney transferred the ownership to a subsidiary in a way that did not come under the exceptions for re-assessment.

You are right. Since that land has been owned by Disney since 1954 only the structure should have been re-assesed in 2000. I stand corrected. I do think the tax component will be the second highest piece of the Maintenance fees after payroll. Payroll Will probably be much higer than other DVC resorts since the cost of living is so high here (at least until Hawaii opens). Transportation remains to be seen. There are no buses here, and the monorail is really not a necessary mode of transportation, and moreover, does not stop at the Grand. Utilities are really high here, especially electricity.

[Longhairbear]

... There are no buses here.....
Slightly off topic, but if, or once the second DVC is built on, or off property, shuttle vans might be used to get guests to DTD to walk to the Esplanade, or take the monorail into Tomorrowland. Buses would be overkill, as everything is so close to each other.

[Laneychris]

So after DVC is open we will be limited to DVC and no hotel rooms. I hadn't thought of that. We are going next year and staying at the CG.

[Lexxiefern]

Thanks for the great info Tim! We stayed at the GC last year and loved it. I am going next weekend and trying out the DLH this time (on points). I figured I would save a few points and try out a new hotel. Do you know if we get a DVC discount at the restaurants in all the hotels as well? I seem to remember from last year, that between my DVC card, AAA and the disney visa, I got a discount at every restaurant we ate at.

About not being able to book GC regular hotel rooms after GCV is done, do we know this for certain? It seems to me like there aren't that many villas right? Aren't only some for points and some will be cash? I wonder if GC will be like Vero beach in the sense that we can book villas or regular hotel rooms?