Magical Express - Money Express?

[bytheblood]

I previously heard rumor that Magical Express is to end in 2008 as a free offering and in order to use it, you will be required to purchase transfers for $45 each way.

Has anybody else heard this?


I understand with the airlines requiring a luggage fee that this is hard for ME/Disney and they will have to do something to make it work.

Anybody have any thoughts or word on what you have heard?

[jfinke]

I thought that that was part of the original plan. Get people hooked on it and then charge for it.

Personally, we use it because we are already paying for it somehow. We accept that we have been trapped onsite.

However, if they are going to start charging for it, it makes it no different than the original option of using Mears. At that point, we would just rent a car or get a limo.

[SheilaHeartsDisney]

I thought that it would stay fee till 2011

[Lollipop's Mom]

$45 each way seems a bit steep considering they are charging $68 return to the cruise port.
I think if/when they do charge, it will be a nominal $10-15 each way.

[Horace Horsecollar]

In reality, DME is not free today, even though there's no direct charge for the service. DME allows Disney to charge more for rooms, to have higher occupancy, and, most importantly, to keep guests (and their wallets) on-site because most DME guests don't have rental cars.

The rumors that Disney will charge for Magical Express are speculation by people who haven't thought about why DME has been free since it was launched in May 2005.

[WDSearcher]

I could see $45 round-trip ... maybe. But not each way. That would put ME on par with cabs and car services. Any car service could boost its business significantly by simply undercutting the Disney price. I agree with the PP who said that IF they charge, it will be a nominal fee -- designed mostly to cover airline luggage charges and increases in fuel costs, rather than the service itself.

:earsboy:

[SteveS]

Personally I find ME to be convienient and efficient. If I were to be charged for that service, I would revert back to getting a rental car and not be limited in dinning and recreation opportunities.

Disney would be far better served to keep this service free and keep me on site for the entire trip.

[bytheblood]

I did also think $45 each way is awfully high.

If they do start charging anything for it, especially considering how much they are charging for everything else, I will pay a town car service to take me to and from my resort.

[Lewisc]

Charge $45 and a group of 3-4 will find a car service cheaper. Even a couple may decide a car service is worth the extra few dollars. Others may find the extra money for a rental car worth it.

Charging that much will reduce ridership. Lower ridership may result in increased wait times before a bus is dispatched and more stops per bus. It's been posted that the average time from landing to arrival is 70 minutes. Increase that to 90 minutes and another group of potential passengers will bail.

I'll speculate Disney will start charging guests for resort parking before (or at the same time) they start charging for DME. Many hotels in the Orlando area now charge for guest parking. On-site SoG, Swan and Dolphin all charge for guest parking. Off-site the Universal hotels, Gaylord Palms, Mariott (convention hotel) and other hotels charge for guest parking.

[raidermatt]

In reality, DME is not free today, even though there's no direct charge for the service. DME allows Disney to charge more for rooms, to have higher occupancy, and, most importantly, to keep guests (and their wallets) on-site because most DME guests don't have rental cars.

The rumors that Disney will charge for Magical Express are speculation by people who haven't thought about why DME has been free since it was launched in May 2005.

Good points, though the tempatation is always going to be there to put a fee on it. True, it is not truly free now, but all it takes is for an executive to be convinced that they can get away with the fee without affecting room rates much.

Certainly that temptation grows greater in an environment like the one Disney finds itself in today, as we are finding out in other areas.

[nless_dream]

i hope they don't start charing $45 one-way for the service. I stay on-site just because of the DME so i don't have to rent a car or taxi.

[vDunninger]

Disney already has ME costs built into their room pricing. Rather than try and get even more money from charging for ME (big drop in ridership would result as it becomes more cost efficient for families to take cabs or similar means), they'd be better off pushing ME as the 'green' alternative, reducing vehicle emissions by using their 'magical' public transit. Ridership could very likely increase with that kind of campaign, making the world a better place for all of us! (except maybe the cab and car rental companies at MCO).

[paulh]

In reality, DME is not free today, even though there's no direct charge for the service. DME allows Disney to charge more for rooms, to have higher occupancy, and, most importantly, to keep guests (and their wallets) on-site because most DME guests don't have rental cars.

The rumors that Disney will charge for Magical Express are speculation by people who haven't thought about why DME has been free since it was launched in May 2005.

agree completley and if the downtunin bookings happens, and they chrge for it.it will send the bookings down further still.
Think the would alter the DDP, to days you want rather than all your stay,before they charge for ME

[Jetsong]

didnt I read awhile back that Disney was thinking about running train service from the airport to WDW ?

[jfinke]

didnt I read awhile back that Disney was thinking about running train service from the airport to WDW ?

I believe that they wanted to do a deal with the City to run light rail.

It was highly protested for a couple of reasons. Taxes and taxies.

So, they went with ME and basically thumbed their noses at everyone. ;)

[disney1990]

Charge $45 and a group of 3-4 will find a car service cheaper. Even a couple may decide a car service is worth the extra few dollars. Others may find the extra money for a rental car worth it.

Charging that much will reduce ridership. Lower ridership may result in increased wait times before a bus is dispatched and more stops per bus. It's been posted that the average time from landing to arrival is 70 minutes. Increase that to 90 minutes and another group of potential passengers will bail.

I'll speculate Disney will start charging guests for resort parking before (or at the same time) they start charging for DME. Many hotels in the Orlando area now charge for guest parking. On-site SoG, Swan and Dolphin all charge for guest parking. Off-site the Universal hotels, Gaylord Palms, Mariott (convention hotel) and other hotels charge for guest parking.

Yes, you and a lot of other people will decide to rent a car. Then instead of spending your entire vacation (and all your money) at Disney, you will be free to visit other Orlando attractions. In the long run, charging for Magical Express will cost Disney money (your money).

[Chuck S]

I think we'll see parking charges at DtD before we see them at resorts or a charge for DME.

[georgemoe]

I personally do not see them charging for DME. I do see an increase in room rates which would accomplish pretty much the same thing.

[mitros]

I thought that that was part of the original plan. Get people hooked on it and then charge for it.

Personally, we use it because we are already paying for it somehow. We accept that we have been trapped onsite.

However, if they are going to start charging for it, it makes it no different than the original option of using Mears. At that point, we would just rent a car or get a limo.

Funny situation, when my wife worked for a bank many years ago when they first started distributing ATM cards, they were touted as free, free, free, Not free anymore, they get everyone used to having one, then down comes the second hammer. Now it's fees, fees, fees! :sad2:

[dhluvsDisney]

They start charging.. I stop using..... It would definately be back to a towncar for us!

[Zippa D Doodah]

I wouldn't pay any extra for DME. Some trips we fly; some we drive. If there was an additional charge for DME I'd rent a car on those trips when we fly. I'd be sure to eat off-site some.

[minnie61650]

I personally do not see them charging for DME. I do see an increase in room rates which would accomplish pretty much the same thing.

I agree.
WDW will add the increased cost into the room rate and keep ME "free".

Those rumors ( to start charging for ME) have been around since WDW first started ME.

I do not believe those rumors have an ounce of truth in them.

WDW fought so hard to get a light rail system that would take guests directly from MCO to WDW.

When that idea failed they stated offering their "free" direct to WDW ME
service.

This has worked very well for WDW to keep guests onsite.

If WDW started charging for ME it would completly defeat the orignal statagey that is working so well for them.


Just my 2 cents

[mitros]

I wouldn't pay any extra for DME. Some trips we fly; some we drive. If there was an additional charge for DME I'd rent a car on those trips when we fly. I'd be sure to eat off-site some.

We love your McCain "sticker" :thumbsup2

Eating off site can be a genuine plus. There are quite a few decent spots to have a meal in the area, even if you go to one of the Universal restaurants!

[Another Voice]

WDW fought so hard to get a light rail system that would take guests directly from MCO to WDW. When that idea failed they stated offering their "free" direct to WDW ME service.
That's incorrect.

What Disney fought so hard for was to prevent ANY station between the airport and WDW. The plans for both the light rail link and the Orlando-Tampa high speed train included a stop on International Drive at the Convention Center. The taxpayers of Florida decided they didn't want to fund a non-stop commuter train that would benefit no one except Disney.

Once it was clear that the I-Drive stop was necessary, Disney refused to allow the line to enter Disney property and killing the plans.

The "free" bus is an unwanted, temporary measure Disiney had to settle for to make their 'Destination Disney' plan lock guests on property. The Company would much rather the state have paid for everything, but not at the expense of dropping potential customers at the doorstep of competitors.

[minnie61650]

That's incorrect.

What Disney fought so hard for was to prevent ANY station between the airport and WDW. The plans for both the light rail link and the Orlando-Tampa high speed train included a stop on International Drive at the Convention Center. The taxpayers of Florida decided they didn't want to fund a non-stop commuter train that would benefit no one except Disney.

Once it was clear that the I-Drive stop was necessary, Disney refused to allow the line to enter Disney property and killing the plans.

The "free" bus is an unwanted, temporary measure Disiney had to settle for to make their 'Destination Disney' plan lock guests on property. The Company would much rather the state have paid for everything, but not at the expense of dropping potential customers at the doorstep of competitors.

Thanks AV. When I said "take guests directly from MCO to WDW." I did mean non-stop.

Thank you for explaining it much more clearly than I did.

[Another Voice]

I'm sorry if that came off as harsh, but Disney is trying to paint itself as a victim in this whole affair and the last thing that's needed is another company manufactured myth that's taken as the truth.

There have been several potential plans that almost happened. The best was around the time when EPCOT Center opened. Disney was even setting land aside to create a Central Florida Transportation Hub - a place where you could have transfered directly from a Miami-Orlando-Airport-Tampa train directly to WDW's monorail system, where busses and people driving from offsite could have parked.

Then Michael Eisner came onboard and nixed the whole plan because the state wanted the train have a stop between MCO and WDW. The company has kept that position ever since and have killed many, many transportation plans over the year (and they've pretty much trashed transportation on their own property as well).

The reason why the state wants a non-Disney stop is simple. They get more tax revenue from off-property businesses than they get from Disney (what, you think the sales tax you pay buying that plush on Main Street actually goes to the state and county?). Orlando is trying to build itself into a major convention and meeting destination; they've sunk hugs amounts of money in the Orlando Convention Center. And since the rail line would be financed by the taxpayers, the state feels it should benefit multiple groups instead of a single corporation (especially one that can blow a hundred million on a Underdog remake).

We could have been riding at 200 mph for a more than a decade now except for Disney's amazing greed. Somewhere along the line the concept of "resort" has been lost among multiple "profit centers" - Disney has lost the ability to see the greater profits while they've been counting pennies.

[yitbos96bb]

Charge $45 and a group of 3-4 will find a car service cheaper. Even a couple may decide a car service is worth the extra few dollars. Others may find the extra money for a rental car worth it.

Charging that much will reduce ridership. Lower ridership may result in increased wait times before a bus is dispatched and more stops per bus. It's been posted that the average time from landing to arrival is 70 minutes. Increase that to 90 minutes and another group of potential passengers will bail.

I'll speculate Disney will start charging guests for resort parking before (or at the same time) they start charging for DME. Many hotels in the Orlando area now charge for guest parking. On-site SoG, Swan and Dolphin all charge for guest parking. Off-site the Universal hotels, Gaylord Palms, Mariott (convention hotel) and other hotels charge for guest parking.

What a total rip off... I can see charging in an inner city with limited parking OR charging for Valet, but the parking is not that limited at most Orlando Hotels... boy talk about bilking the customers.

[Padrepride]

It wouldn't be smart for Disney to charge for the ME. People would start renting cars allowing them to go off site. And with Potterland coming to US, it wouldn't be a good idea to let guests go.

[yitbos96bb]

agree completley and if the downtunin bookings happens, and they chrge for it.it will send the bookings down further still.
Think the would alter the DDP, to days you want rather than all your stay,before they charge for ME

This is Disney we are talking about... They make a lot of dumb decisions, so your very good and reasonable one on the DDP would NEVER fly... as a stockholder, I'm still uber-ticked on the whole Song of the South thing... I could buy the racial insensitivity argument, IF they hadn't constantly released films with racial insensitivities in them... The WWII cartoons, Dumbo (the crows and the carnies are both racially insensitive), Peter Pan (The portrayal of American Indians... not to mention the smoking which they BUTCHERED the Pecos Bill cartoon by trying to remove his cigarette). The argument doesn't hold water and for some stupid reason Eisner and now Iger has a bug about the film. From a shareholder point of view, withholding a movie that is the most requested Disney film to be put on DVD... a film whose DVD release guarentees 10's to 100's of million of dollars in revenue is a disservice to shareholders and should result in the firing of Iger and any on the board who support this stupidity. We hear the complaints about company revenue and stupid ideas to raise revenue such as ME charging or cost cutting maneuvers such as limiting Fantasmic, while they ignore some of the other avenues of income available.

Ok sorry that got a little OT... ultimately though under the current regime, we will see some very stupid decisions and just have to hope Iger and his cronies don't run our beloved company into the ground.

[yitbos96bb]

I believe that they wanted to do a deal with the City to run light rail.

It was highly protested for a couple of reasons. Taxes and taxies.

So, they went with ME and basically thumbed their noses at everyone. ;)

Floridians complaining about the smallest of taxes... there's a SHOCK ;-) I'd love to see some of them move to the East coast, or the Chicago area or West coast and then we will see how much they complain about added taxes... EVEN the temp ones added to build a light rail...

That being said, I'm surprised that Orlando didn't figure out a way to push the costs on the tourists... either with additional Hotel tax or rental car tax...

I know I helped pay for the Chiefs new stadium... KC (or the State of Kansas or Missouri... I'm not sure who) passed a HUGE tax on rental cars to pay for a lot of it. I'm surprised Orlando wouldn't do something similiar.

[yitbos96bb]

I'm sorry if that came off as harsh, but Disney is trying to paint itself as a victim in this whole affair and the last thing that's needed is another company manufactured myth that's taken as the truth.

There have been several potential plans that almost happened. The best was around the time when EPCOT Center opened. Disney was even setting land aside to create a Central Florida Transportation Hub - a place where you could have transfered directly from a Miami-Orlando-Airport-Tampa train directly to WDW's monorail system, where busses and people driving from offsite could have parked.

Then Michael Eisner came onboard and nixed the whole plan because the state wanted the train have a stop between MCO and WDW. The company has kept that position ever since and have killed many, many transportation plans over the year (and they've pretty much trashed transportation on their own property as well).

The reason why the state wants a non-Disney stop is simple. They get more tax revenue from off-property businesses than they get from Disney (what, you think the sales tax you pay buying that plush on Main Street actually goes to the state and county?). Orlando is trying to build itself into a major convention and meeting destination; they've sunk hugs amounts of money in the Orlando Convention Center. And since the rail line would be financed by the taxpayers, the state feels it should benefit multiple groups instead of a single corporation (especially one that can blow a hundred million on a Underdog remake).

We could have been riding at 200 mph for a more than a decade now except for Disney's amazing greed. Somewhere along the line the concept of "resort" has been lost among multiple "profit centers" - Disney has lost the ability to see the greater profits while they've been counting pennies.

Sadly, you can make that arguement for A LOT of places in this country... Heck, we could easily have a high speed rail system like Japan and Europe have, except the airlines have fought tooth and nail to keep it from happening. Its also why Amtrak almost completely died a few years ago.

[jfinke]

I know I helped pay for the Chiefs new stadium... KC (or the State of Kansas or Missouri... I'm not sure who) passed a HUGE tax on rental cars to pay for a lot of it. I'm surprised Orlando wouldn't do something similiar.

Actually, I think it was St. Louis that you helped pay for. KC residents were pissed they were paying for a St. Louis stadium and got nothing for KC.

[Disneycrazymom]

There are a lot of St Louis residents (me included) that think they should build their own stadiums too! The only bigger waist of tax $$$ here is the new runway that bought up my entire neighborhood and now has maybe 2 to 3 planes a week land on it.

[MarriedToAPrince]

If they do start charging $45 each way then I think we will end up renting a car. I agree that charging would not be a great way to get people to stay on site for activites, thus losing business. With us using DME we stay on site at all times and spent all our money at WDW versus going elsewhere.

[yitbos96bb]

If they do start charging $45 each way then I think we will end up renting a car. I agree that charging would not be a great way to get people to stay on site for activites, thus losing business. With us using DME we stay on site at all times and spent all our money at WDW versus going elsewhere.

No..> this was in 2006 and the rental car bills all clearly said KC Stadium Tax

[troynkasey]

I would find it hard to believe they would charge for ME for the reasons already stated. #1, if it's free, more people take part and then more people are "stuck" on property and can't travel off to pick up goods, so they purchase on property at a markup. #2, if they don't charge, they can write that fee off and factor it into room prices and other locations. Trust me, it's not free. We're paying for it somewhere else!! But now they can charge everyone a tad more for their room to pay for ME. it's a great idea really. Give someone something they believe to be free.

If I'm charged, then I spend money on a rental car to get there. That is money I don't spend on everything Disney. I also use the transportation to drive and get groceries and snacks instead of eating at the resort...further limiting what I spend on Disney.

Personally, I think it would be a foolish move to charge. They will lose out in the end.

[jfinke]

On April 4, 2006, Jackson County voters approved a tax increase for $850 million for renovations to Arrowhead and nearby Kauffman Stadium. However the voters rejected a tax increase for $170 million to place a rolling roof on the stadium. Before the election the NFL awarded the 49th Super Bowl in 2015 to Kansas City provided it have a climate controlled stadium. With the passing of the stadium bill, the Chiefs new lease became effective. With the new lease, the Chiefs will remain at Arrowhead until at least 2031.

Question 1 sought a three-eighths-cent sales tax to raise an estimated $850 million during 25 years to finance $425 million in construction costs, with the remainder spent on interest and future major stadium repairs.[11]

Voters approved of the first question on the ballot (a 3/8 cent sales tax to help renovate Kauffman & Arrowhead Stadiums) by 53%.

Question 2 was on the ballot to raise $140 million for a rolling roof that could be used over both Arrowhead and Kauffman stadiums. A county use tax was to have been imposed that was equal to the county sales tax. The rolling roof plan did not pass, by a margin of 52% to 48% and Kansas City chose to withdraw its request to host Super Bowl XLIX in 2015.[12]

Both questions were placed on the ballot with the agreement that ticket prices would be raised to increase the county's revenue from the Chiefs. The NFL blocked the ticket price increase and parking prices were raised instead to live up to the Chiefs' side of the agreement. Reconstruction for the stadiums started on October 3, 2007 with refurbishment of nearby Kauffman Stadium, home to the Kansas City Royals baseball team, and the stadiums will be done by the year 2010.

The renovations were originally going to force the Wizards to find a temporary home following the 2006 season, but delays have allowed them to return for 2007. The Wizards will move to CommunityAmerica Ballpark in 2008 while they consider other locations in Greater Kansas City for their soccer specific stadium.

On August 15, 2007, the Chiefs announced final plans for the renovated Arrowhead Stadium, which will cost $375 million. The cost was increased by $50 million due to an additional payment by the Hunt Family, whom were originally intending to donate just $75 million. The renovated stadium will feature the Chiefs Hall of Honor, currently known as the Chiefs Hall of Fame, a tribute to Lamar Hunt, and "horizon level" seating in which Luxury suite owners will be sitting outdoors.[13] The stadium and new player and coaches facilities are still on schedule to be completed by the beginning of the 2011 NFL season. Though the stadium is referred to as "New Arrowhead Stadium," the building as of this time will not be renamed.

They are redoing the stadium. And I think it was just Jackson County, which is KC, MO proper. I thought that the St. Louis stuff was for a new stadium and was with state money. However, after a bit more research, it looks like that was struck down and had some city funding plus others.

n June 2001, the State of Missouri signed a contract with the team, proposing a ballpark in downtown St. Louis, but a subsequent funding bill was struck down in May 2002, leaving the saga open.[5][6] Team owners sought a location near Madison, Illinois, adjacent to Gateway International Raceway, until the city of St. Louis drafted a financing plan for the team to construct the new stadium in downtown St. Louis.[7] The Stadium was financed through private bonds, bank loans, a long-term loan from St. Louis County, and money from the team owners. The development, including the Ballpark Village will cost approximately $646 million with the stadium alone costing $346 million.

[TDC Nala]

$45 is ridiculous. Mears itself charges $30 round trip. Maybe that's for handling the baggage, but what if you don't have baggage to handle, just carryons?

[sharonmickey]

Years ago, before ME, I paid $29 roundtrip for Mears to transfer each person to and from Disney. For a family of four it was less expensive to take a town car. If Disney decides to charge for ME I would most likely either rent a car or go back to using a town car to transfer me.

[Laneychris]

I doubt Disney would charge $45.00 I read on another board $25. but that seems to much as well.

[Crazy4Disney72]

$45 each way is absurd, especially for something that since its inception 3+ years ago has been available at no additional charge. For my family of 5, that would be $450 just to get to and from MCO! Yikes! We would most definitely rent a car for that, or maybe even just drive our own car from PA if we had to pay $450 on top of whatever the airlines would be charging. Given how expensive fuel has become, I could see them charging maybe $5 a person each way, maybe even keep it free to kids under 10 or something, call it a fuel surcharge or something, that doesn't seem too unreasonable, but $45, that's absurd and would definitely have less people using DME and thus more people able to venture offsite during their WDW vacation.

[CanadianGuy]

If Disney charges - and I don't think they will.. I think it will be 15$ per person.. round trip.

That's my theory.

Whatever THAT is worth. :)

[margitmouse]

wow...a learning experience here for sure. Sorry to hear about Disney's selfcentered narrowmindedness...am I surpised?? That they have the power to nix a transportation project of that size is, well, disappointing and disturbing amongst other things
I love going there, I just bought time share, but I do believe that the original vision of Walt Disney, some of the values, have been lost in the quest for the dollar. No wonder Roy resigned.

[yitbos96bb]

wow...a learning experience here for sure. Sorry to hear about Disney's selfcentered narrowmindedness...am I surpised?? That they have the power to nix a transportation project of that size is, well, disappointing and disturbing amongst other things
I love going there, I just bought time share, but I do believe that the original vision of Walt Disney, some of the values, have been lost in the quest for the dollar. No wonder Roy resigned.

Um you do realize this thread was last posted too in Sept 2008. Since that time Disney has done a 180 and is supporting the project to my understanding. They have donated land for their stop on the train as well.

You may want to check the previous post dates before posting as the info may be irrelevant...such as threads complaining about the age of star tours or hoping they build a contemporAry DVC.

[margitmouse]

I stand sufficiently scolded!

thanks for the info, however ..........
ah, another thread!:surfweb:

[margitmouse]

I stand sufficiently scolded!

thanks for the info, however ..........
ah, another thread!:surfweb:

[yitbos96bb]

I stand sufficiently scolded!

thanks for the info, however ..........
ah, another thread!:surfweb:

Sorry, was not my intention to scold... just didn't want you to waste time on a dead thread.

Actually, I went and looked up a little more on this...

So here is the deal...

There are two projects... one is the High Speed Rail project that connects Orlando Airport (MCO) to Tampa. Disney will have a stop and from what i understand there will be a stop near Sea World and Universal and the COnvention Center (how close I don't know, but it sounds like the DIsney stop is right on property). Eventually the line will run from MCO to Miami on one of two proposed routes (personally, I like the one that goes to COcoa and then down the coast), in phase 2. This is being paid for by a combination of state, local, and federal money, not sure if there is private money as well (much like was seen with Millineum Park in Chicago which blended public and private funds).
The second project is Sunrail, which connects to Downtown Orlando and hits a lot of the suburbs.

Stupidly, these don't connect. However, a private company is offering to build a connecting line with $0 tax payer dollars and will run the train. They only ask for free land to do it from the City. This was proposed at the end of March, 2010.

Potentially, with the High speed rail system opening in 2015, we could see Magical Express go away completely, or they may run it... originally, DIsney said if they built the High Speed Rail along the other proposed path (that would cut out Universal and SeaWorld,) then they would end Magical Express, but would continue it (and canibalize business on the train) if they picked the current path. However, they dropped that stipulation, so we'll see what happens. I'm guessing they can send people on the train cheaper than busing OR they will just end it altogether and not include transportation since the train is going to happen either way.

The stimulus package gave 1.2 billion or so to the project and Florida was one of the three highest beneficiaries of the HIgh Speed Rails part of the Stimulus along with the Chicago Hub project (a multistate high speed rail with a hub in Chicago, much like the 30's and 40's) and California.

[margitmouse]

Double wow! Thanks, i find this really exciting
How did you find all this info?
I'll have to branch out further than the DIS sometime huh!:rotfl2:

[yitbos96bb]

Double wow! Thanks, i find this really exciting
How did you find all this info?
I'll have to branch out further than the DIS sometime huh!:rotfl2:

http://www.wftv.com/news/22783479/detail.html - this is on the private connector line.

Google sunrail and florida high speed rail and you'll find tons... Do each separately.

Enjoy, it's interesting reading. Start with wiki and the two project websites

[seashoreCM]

(copied from another post)
I kinda think that if DME is replaced by a high speed train to a station near or even on WDW property, then the travel time from resort to airport will be greater.

And how would Disney arrange things when before 5 in the morning or after 8 at night the wait for a train would be longer?

DME as it is now is (using a transportation industry term) a one seat ride. Using a train would mean making a transfer from a "local" Disney resort bus.

Although I can see a fee for DME, I expect there would be a maximum fee per room.

[yitbos96bb]

(copied from another post)
I kinda think that if DME is replaced by a high speed train to a station near or even on WDW property, then the travel time from resort to airport will be greater.

And how would Disney arrange things when before 5 in the morning or after 8 at night the wait for a train would be longer?

DME as it is now is (using a transportation industry term) a one seat ride. Using a train would mean making a transfer from a "local" Disney resort bus.

Although I can see a fee for DME, I expect there would be a maximum fee per room.

I don't know... I don't necessarily agree it will take longer. I mean it takes about 45 min to an hour on ME between waiting, resort stops, etc. The high speed train will run at over 100 mph. There would be just 1 or 2 stops before Disney. So even with the transfers at worst it will be break even.

[Lewisc]

DME is free. A direct bus between MCO and our resort.

High speed train means paying for the train trip between MCO and the WDW station. We'll then have to wait at the WDW stop for a bus to our resort. How long is the distance between MCO and WDW? Maybe 20 miles? The train won't be going at 100MPH for much (probably none) of the trip.

We'll have to go from the terminal to the train station. Wait for the next train. Wait for a bus at WDW. The total time savings will be minimal, if any.

[yitbos96bb]

DME is free. A direct bus between MCO and our resort.

High speed train means paying for the train trip between MCO and the WDW station. We'll then have to wait at the WDW stop for a bus to our resort. How long is the distance between MCO and WDW? Maybe 20 miles? The train won't be going at 100MPH for much (probably none) of the trip.

We'll have to go from the terminal to the train station. Wait for the next train. Wait for a bus at WDW. The total time savings will be minimal, if any.

1). There are 1-2 stops betweenMCO and Disney. The travel time put forth by the commission for the project was 21 min including stops. Travel time between MCO and Disney by bus is est. At 36 min. This doesn't include multiple stops at multiple resorts or bus wait time. I had to wait 45 min before boarding the bus.

2). You missed the point. There is a good chance DME goes away when this is built. Disney might give free tickets for onsite but either way, it makes too much sense for them to end DME. Even if they pay for the ticket, it would be cheaper than DME.


Under the current setup, I'd take DME too... Most likely it will be faster or the same time to take the train, but free is free. However, if both cost the same
I'd take the train as it will at worst take the same time and at best faster. Either way my feeling is DME will be gone.

[Lewisc]

Sorry I didn't word my post better. Disney is currently using DME to refer to three different services. Transport guests via bus between WDW and MCO. Transport luggage from MCO to WDW. RAC for luggage and to provide BPs.

IF the train is built DME would probably no longer provide bus service between MCO and WDW. I suspect the train wouldn't be free. Having to charge for the train might allow Disney to charge for the service.

I don't think DME would go away. It might still handle luggage. Still offer RAC. DME would provide bus service between the resorts and the train stop instead of MCO.




1). There are 1-2 stops betweenMCO and Disney. The travel time put forth by the commission for the project was 21 min including stops. Travel time between MCO and Disney by bus is est. At 36 min. This doesn't include multiple stops at multiple resorts or bus wait time. I had to wait 45 min before boarding the bus.

2). You missed the point. There is a good chance DME goes away when this is built. Disney might give free tickets for onsite but either way, it makes too much sense for them to end DME. Even if they pay for the ticket, it would be cheaper than DME.


Under the current setup, I'd take DME too... Most likely it will be faster or the same time to take the train, but free is free. However, if both cost the same
I'd take the train as it will at worst take the same time and at best faster. Either way my feeling is DME will be gone.

[yitbos96bb]

Sorry I didn't word my post better. Disney is currently using DME to refer to three different services. Transport guests via bus between WDW and MCO. Transport luggage from MCO to WDW. RAC for luggage and to provide BPs.

IF the train is built DME would probably no longer provide bus service between MCO and WDW. I suspect the train wouldn't be free. Having to charge for the train might allow Disney to charge for the service.

I don't think DME would go away. It might still handle luggage. Still offer RAC. DME would provide bus service between the resorts and the train stop instead of MCO.

Possibly... I would love the ability for luggage to still go to the resorts. I'm not sure it would be used fro. The train stop... Why pay meats when you have your own on property buses? But I guess it wouldn't go away completely until phase two starts and a line goes to port canaverall.

It's not an if it gets built it's a when. The Feds have given 1.2 billion to the project and the state kicked in. It enjoys political support on both sides so little chance the new governor kills it and the big businesses in the area are lining up in favor. It's still 5 years away minimum though. So DME isn't going anywhere hopefully for at least that time. But I can easily see Disney modify Dme to get rid of mears or do away with it to save money when the train is built... I prefer modification to doing away...

[Lewisc]

Some guests get their checked luggage. Many guests have large carryon bags that go in the overhead bins. Disney would need buses that can accomodate luggage. No idea if Disney would contract with Mears or use Disney CMs. Either way I doubt they'd use the same buses they use to transport guests to the parks.

[skiingfast]

The more I think about this the more I feel DME will go.

I think the trains from MCO will be more frequent and handle more people at once than buses.
Disney will be able to cut out Mears.
The resort prices won't go down. They never do.
It will be faster than waiting for a bus on each end and taking the slow bus to the airport.

I think the only drawback is it won't have Mickey on the cars or the promotional video inside.

[Lewisc]

Replacing Mears with a whatever company is in charge of the rail service doesn't necessarily benefit Disney.

DME buses typically leave with 20-30 guests. A train won't be leaving with only 20 passengers. DME buses typically leave every 15-20 minutes. Train service might be hourly. Maybe every 30 minutes. Does anyone really think it will be more frequent? Guests will still be waiting for a bus to take them between the train station and their resort.

Buses are typically less expensive then trains. Experts are quoted as saying Disney will continue to run DME.







The more I think about this the more I feel DME will go.

I think the trains from MCO will be more frequent and handle more people at once than buses.
Disney will be able to cut out Mears.
The resort prices won't go down. They never do.
It will be faster than waiting for a bus on each end and taking the slow bus to the airport.

I think the only drawback is it won't have Mickey on the cars or the promotional video inside.

[skiingfast]

Replacing Mears with a whatever company is in charge of the rail service doesn't necessarily benefit Disney.

DME buses typically leave with 20-30 guests. A train won't be leaving with only 20 passengers. DME buses typically leave every 15-20 minutes. Train service might be hourly. Maybe every 30 minutes. Does anyone really think it will be more frequent? Guests will still be waiting for a bus to take them between the train station and their resort.

Buses are typically less expensive then trains. Experts are quoted as saying Disney will continue to run DME.

From MCO buses leave going to 3 of 20 resorts every 15-20 minutes. Which means they are leaving to each resort every hour?

There are far more accounts of guest waitng 30 minutes plus to leave on DME than in 15 minutes.

The benefit will also be in leaving. Conservativly if it takes 30 mitutes to get on the train and 15 minutes to get to the airport. This is much quicker than ME picking up guest 3 hours before their departure.

Yes I think trains will be more frequent than hourly. Compared to the northeast corridor which has 3 to 4 trains an hour. That's every 15-20 minutes for trains.

Plus it is projected the line will handle the passengers from 27,000 vehicles that are currently on the road. This is 10% of the durrent I-4 traffic. If the eastern commuter train are only seating 300 passengers it will take at least 90 trains per day. 90 trains/ 24 hours per day is 3.75. Again that's about 3 to 4 trains per hour or a train every 15-20 minutes.

Knowing that the train will arrive on a consistent schedule it could be possible to have a bus waiting for each resort when the train pulls in.

Trains tend to offer a higher level of service and be faster than buses adding to the cost of using one.

Experts have stated that if high speed rail is built with a station at WDW DME will be modified.

[Lewisc]

I won't take the time to correct the previous post. Much of the information is untrue. The rest of the information is speculative.

I'll meet the poster halfway. Correct as much of your post as you can and I'll do the rest.

[seashoreCM]

Does anyone have an idea or a map of the proposed location of the Disney train station?

A primary divider in the WDW area is the I-4 and Irlo Bronson (192) interchange. The main portion of the World, all theme parks and resorts and Downtown Disney -- is in the northwest quadrant (which includes a lot of due north). Celebration is in the southeast quadrant. Disney owns some land to the southwest.

Both Disney and the regional planning agency needs to size up and balance the use of the station as a "public" parking and commuting facility versus a Disney transportation hub i.e. a TTC II. The exact location will influence that balance in a defacto manner.

As a parking area will be needed for commuter use, the most likely on-site location would in the Wide World of Sports area, where a reasonable expanse of unused land is still available.

[skiingfast]

The proposals for the High speed line include that most of the track is planned for the center area of I-4.

I have seen a map though it was not very detailed. This map refered to a Celebration/WDW station. Because of the map it did not show were the station was located relative to other land marks in WDW.

I also think a stop near DTD would work well since that parking area is used more at night than during the day.

[Lewisc]

The high speed train is projected to have a station at Disney/Celebration, at MCO and near the convention center. It's not clear how many commuters will be taking the train. A parking garage is always an option.

The exact site hasn't been announced, I don't think it's been decided.

"Experts" quoted in various articles suggest Disney may keep DME as is. Trains generally cost more then bus. It's likely total time between MCO and resorts will be longer with the train then with DME.

A PP suggests the train is anticpating attracting 10% of the total traffic on I4. I hope he mis-read the article, that's a pie in the sky number.

[skiingfast]

A PP suggests the train is anticpating attracting 10% of the total traffic on I4. I hope he mis-read the article, that's a pie in the sky number.

I did not misread the article. The 10% estimate is what the DOT anticipates.

[Lewisc]

I did not misread the article. The 10% estimate is what the DOT anticipates.

I didn't think you made up the number, but it sounds like a number that was manufactured in an attempt to make the numbers work. Do you have a link? I'd like to read the footnotes.

The initial train will be going from Tampa to Orlando. Anyone with a destination other then Orlando will drive. That includes people driving North. People driving to the KSC/Port Canaveral. People driving S of Orlando.

People staying offsite are likely to want their car. Famlies will probably find driving is less expensive then taking the train.

People take the train into NYC (Manhattan). People who drive have to pay tolls, parking ($30-$50 during the week) and horrible traffic. Any statistics derived from the NY area aren't applicable to Florida.

[skiingfast]

I didn't think you made up the number, but it sounds like a number that was manufactured in an attempt to make the numbers work. Do you have a link? I'd like to read the footnotes.



I do not have a link. I read this from paper not the internet. The article only states the numbers are from the DOT.

[akcire]

I am not going to get into the bus/train debate, because frankly whichever is available will be fine with me (and for times it is not I will rent a car).

However here is a BIG advantage the train could have for Disney if done correctly. If the train is totally ADA accessible, or for lack of a better explanation "roll on ready", it could save a huge amount of time. Currently none of the Disney transportation is accessible without human interaction, either a driver needs to modify the bus for boarding wheelchair/scooters or like on the monorail the station attendant need to place a ramp.

If the train from the airport could be at the same level as the platform a person in a rolling conveyance would be able to board independently, this would additionally facilitate the easy movement of luggage.

[yitbos96bb]

I am not going to get into the bus/train debate, because frankly whichever is available will be fine with me (and for times it is not I will rent a car).

However here is a BIG advantage the train could have for Disney if done correctly. If the train is totally ADA accessible, or for lack of a better explanation "roll on ready", it could save a huge amount of time. Currently none of the Disney transportation is accessible without human interaction, either a driver needs to modify the bus for boarding wheelchair/scooters or like on the monorail the station attendant need to place a ramp.

If the train from the airport could be at the same level as the platform a person in a rolling conveyance would be able to board independently, this would additionally facilitate the easy movement of luggage.

Like the airport monorail.

You're from Naperville? I grew up there and live in Aurora now.

[skiingfast]

However here is a BIG advantage the train could have for Disney if done correctly. If the train is totally ADA accessible, or for lack of a better explanation "roll on ready", it could save a huge amount of time. Currently none of the Disney transportation is accessible without human interaction, either a driver needs to modify the bus for boarding wheelchair/scooters or like on the monorail the station attendant need to place a ramp.
.

Do you know if this is the case at the GF, as well? It was built just before the ADA act of 1990 but I wonder if Disney used forsite in the design. Does the GF monorail station require the ramps like the Poly and CR?

[FireDancer]

I am not going to get into the bus/train debate, because frankly whichever is available will be fine with me (and for times it is not I will rent a car).

However here is a BIG advantage the train could have for Disney if done correctly. If the train is totally ADA accessible, or for lack of a better explanation "roll on ready", it could save a huge amount of time. Currently none of the Disney transportation is accessible without human interaction, either a driver needs to modify the bus for boarding wheelchair/scooters or like on the monorail the station attendant need to place a ramp.

If the train from the airport could be at the same level as the platform a person in a rolling conveyance would be able to board independently, this would additionally facilitate the easy movement of luggage.

I don't know how big of an advantage that really is. It is nice if you need it but I have ridden ME 3 times and have never seen anyone using a wheelchair or scooter get on the bus. Taking the 10,000 foot view I'm not sure it is that big of a financial advantage (the only one that really matters) to Disney to save the time, especially since the buses sit at the airport for a long enough duration of time for them to allow those that need it to board with assistance.

Going back to the original post, I don't see Disney charging directly for ME. The perception of it being free, which we all know it isn't, is a big advantage. While many of the people saying they would take a car instead of pay $45 would probably do the math and reconsider there would be enough people out there who would forgo ME and it would defeat the ultimate purpose of ME. It isn't to give you any convenience, it is to keep you on property. If it were $45 for a round trip I would probably still use it. I almost always go solo so renting a car and paying for gas would cost me a lot more then $45.

As for the train, even if it does happen it is a public works project. It will come in years late and millions over budget because that is what happens. I don't think that the train would negate the need for buses, it would just offset the number of them. Look at Washington DC. They have a great metro system but sill have buses. If there was a single stop for Disney on the train line there would still have to be a mechanism to get everyone from that central stop to the resorts, and it would be buses. They aren't going to build track to each and every resort hotel and park.

[akcire]

I don't know how big of an advantage that really is. It is nice if you need it but I have ridden ME 3 times and have never seen anyone using a wheelchair or scooter get on the bus. Taking the 10,000 foot view I'm not sure it is that big of a financial advantage (the only one that really matters) to Disney to save the time, especially since the buses sit at the airport for a long enough duration of time for them to allow those that need it to board with assistance.

The advantages to Disney come on two fronts. First the fact that the guest is able to convey themselves on their own accord----this limits Disney's liability. Every interaction with a guest that requires additional cast member assistance has the possibility of an accident. Not likely but possible. It is also more likely that a cast member will incur an injury to themselves (moving ramp, moving people in wheelchairs, etc).

The second advantage is time. Anyone who has waited for any Disney bus to load a wheelchair or scooter will attest to the time involved. For Disney this could mean that instead of having buses 10 minutes apart, they have two arrive at the same time--generating additional wait times at the arrival destination (and screwing up the bus route timing). Disney is one of the best companies for scheduling their manpower and controlling lines to enhance guest satisfaction. If they can avoid their employees involvement in the loading of "wheeled" occupants (since this would help stroller riders, in addition to wheelchairs, and scooters) they can maintain a more accurate schedule.

These would just be additional advantages, plus trains are cool.

[Lewisc]

Guests in a wheel chair will still need to board a bus for the bus trip from the Disney rail station to their resort.

Rail has the "cool" factor. The reality a combinatiion rail/bus trip from MCO to your resort will probably take as long (or longer) as DME.

The rail route is going to go North from the airport to a stop near I Drive and the Convention Center. It will then go S, along I4 to the Disney station. Projected train time from MCO to WDW is around 22 minutes.