OT- Ya never know, wheelchairs and teens

[PatMcDuck]

I was thinking of posts on various DIS boards, critical of teens using wheelchairs, not really needing them.....

My daughter went to Great Adventure (Six Flags) today with a friend, she is 16. She has had alot of serious health problems in the last 1 1/2 years. She may need a wheelchair today, it is very hot. She has poor stamina, and has knee and hip pain (had sugery on both hips, both knees for Avascular Necrosis last winter). Her under lying disease is Rheumatological. She has had many complications.

I worry, what will it look like to others? Her friend may be pushing her around that park today, and they might be laughing it up. Bridget will be able to get out of the chair to get on rides, and may look "normal", although her gait is sometimes off. She brought doctors letters to tey to get a pass not to wait on the lines, and/or to wait out of the sun. (her disease can be triggered by a sunburn, she wears 75 sunblock every day). Will people make comments that the two teens are faking it, or something? People are rough in NJ (we live one town away from the park). If they look at her skin, they will see all the marks left from the steriods, so maybe that will clue them in that she has been very ill.

I guess I should not worry so much. She never gets to go places, I finally said yes to this today. But of course a heat wave rolled in after I gave that persmisison....... I hope they come home early!

[Disneylover 2]

Well, some people don't look carefully, and most of the people WILL believe that she is faking it. For example:

Last year, I was in the Indiana Jones ride line and there were three teens going on the elevator. One of them was a girl that was on a wheelchair. She at ALL did not look injured, weak..etc. But I'm not the one to judge. Her illness or injury might be " hidden." They ALL were laughing while in the line and going throught the elevator.

I have also seen teens running pushing another teen in a wheelchair, but again, who am I to judge if that teen REALLY needs a wheelchair or not.

Just tell your daughter that no matter how bad people look at them, your daughters should feel okay with themselves and think that they are doing nothing wrong.

Warning: People WILL whisper loud enought for them to hear the bad comments they are geetting.( this is only sometimes, I've seen it happen)


Good luck!!!!!:thumbsup2

[SueM in MN]

:hugs: hope they get home soon and not too hot!

I know someone who brought her kids to WDW when they were fairly young. I think the younger boy was about 5 or 6 and the older boy 8 or 9. They rented a wheelchair that most of the time no one was riding in. Sometimes the younger boy was riding in it. Very occassionally, the older boy was riding in it. Being 2 boys, they were sometimes running, jumping and doing what little boys do. People did look at them a bit, because there were 2 pretty healthy looking boys using a wheelchair. If they had looked really carefully, they would have noticed that the older boy had very thick fingernails and the nailbeds were often a blue-purple color, along with his lips when he ran.

The older boy had several heart operations as an infant, but they were not able to fix all the damage. His parents were told to take him home and love him, but not to expect him to live much into his teens.
I'm sure there were people who looked at them during their trip thinking they were just faking their need for a wheelchair because at that time, people using wheelchairs did actually get ahead in line (most of the lines then were not accessible). In fact, the boy did live into his teens, but one morning after his 18th birthday, when his mom went to wake him, she found he had died during the night.
So, you do never know.

[SueM in MN]

Warning: People WILL whisper loud enought for them to hear the bad comments they are geetting.( this is only sometimes, I've seen it happen)


Good luck!!!!!:thumbsup2
We've had people look at DD, sitting on a bench next to her wheelchair and do more than whisper. Just because they saw her sitting on a bench they decided she could not really need the wheelchair.
They thing they couldn't see is that she didn't get onto the bench herself. We lifted her out of the wheelchair and onto the bench. I even crossed her leg for her because she likes to swing her legs, but can't cross them herself so she can swing them.

[alizesmom]

It's sad that we live in a world where I can actually feel grateful that Alize looks different enough that no one questions his disability. Karen

[SueM in MN]

I am going to move this to the disABILITIES Community Board where it will be on topic.

[imabrat]

Some may, but if they have problems with a teen using a WC, so be it.
I use a wheelchair. And I get strange looks because you don't know why. You see my (once) bald head (which now has hair!) and think, oh she has cancer. Why is she in a WC? What you don't know is I have a full knee replacement and a titanium rod in my femur. I can walk with a walker, but not long distances. I get strange looks, but I don't care anymore. I know why I need a WC, and that's all that matters.

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I'm sure this happened to us when I went over spring break with my family and friend. Both my friend and I are early 20's. My friend is fairly heavyset and has no visible disability, so I'm sure that people look at us and think that either she has the chair because she is too "fat" or we are just playing around. She can walk and sometimes I would sit in it and wheel around while we were waiting for something. What people cannot see is that my friend got diagnosed with Leukemia before turning 16. She recovered thanks to a bone marrow transplant, but has had problems with graft vs. host disease (it was not a perfect allogenic mathc.) The steroids to control took out both of her hips, so she had both hips replaced shortly after turning 21. This makes walking long distances very hard and painful for her. She took it with great aplomb, and we were too busy having fun to really notice anybody else's reactions.
I'll admit I'm worried about the same thing when (if) I go in August as I will probably need a wheelchair due to a knee problem.

[ireland_nicole]

Some idiots will probably make assumptions, and some may even have the bad manners to say something she can hear. But she'll know the truth, and she'll be having fun. And that's what matters.

[mechurchlady]

dont waste your time thinking of what others might think about you or someone in your party. People can at time be curious or may want to report abuse of the system but I believe it is best to ignore all but the rudest guests. Educate them and explain things. If not then call a CM if you are uncomfortable like them saying bad things. Never let someone ruin your life because you do not fit the norms of life. Also who gave them the right to dictate what the norms of life are?

I bet them girls have a great time.

[dclfun]

Since WDW removed the perceived advantage of bypassing lines there has been much less "abuse" of w/c's by anyone. It's not convenient or easy to be in a w/c whether you're the one riding or the one pushing. Even for the parents who rent one vs. a stroller at WDW I don't consider that "abuse" as it's just an alternate means of transportation for a child who needs to ride vs. walk to save energy and right now it's less costly than renting a stroller. Many children, even those w/o disabilities, have a hard time keeping up at Disney. Many disabilities are hidden. Bridget deserves some fun and I'm glad she's willing to sit in a w/c if necessary so she can enjoy herself with friends. I'd be surprised to see teens *not* laughing and having a good time with each other. She may get stares and comments as many of us do- hopefully she won't notice or won't care. ---Kathy

[Schmeck]

If not then call a CM if you are uncomfortable like them saying bad things.


Unless they are following you and impeding your movement, then there is nothing a CM can really do - I know WDW has it written into their ticket policy about removal from the parks, but stating an opinion is a part of free speech, and you would have to prove harrassment (tape recording of the verbal abuse, witnesses not in your party, etc.) to the CM to have them act on it. Best thing to do is to get a CM to witness it. Then you have the witness and the means to get the obnoxious people removed from the parks.

[KPeveler]

Even for the parents who rent one vs. a stroller at WDW I don't consider that "abuse" as it's just an alternate means of transportation for a child who needs to ride vs. walk to save energy and right now it's less costly than renting a stroller. Many children, even those w/o disabilities, have a hard time keeping up at Disney.

I personally dont care if a person uses a wheelchair instead of a stroller for their kids. my problem is when they do not remove their kids from the wc and have them walk through the line. that is what they would have to do with a stroller, and it makes it more difficult for those of us who cant make it through the line without our wc. i do not mean kids with hidden disabilities, and i certainly do not say anything to anyone. i do not look sick either, so i know how it is.

what i wish more people were aware of is that they only allow a certain number of people with disabilties on a ride at a time, because of evacuation reasons. I do not think it is a good idea to put your kids in a wheelchair instead of a stroller to save money, but really it is none of my business... however, it becomes my business when i have to wait 2 or 3 times the stand-by wait time at big thunder mountain railroad because there are 3 families using a wheelchair as a stroller. CMs cant know when a wc is a stroller, and so i have to wait longer. i think if more families are aware that this is how things work (disney does not post this anywhere), fewer of them would use the wheelchair entrance... (at least i hope so).

[mechurchlady]

The point of contacting a CM is not for a formal trip out of the park. The CM can go over to the rude guest and ask them to knock it off. I would not go to a CM unless it got so bad that they were nonstop with comments and snide remarks. CMs may not have the power to do anything at times but they do tend to scare off the creeps and annoying people. Should one guest not have a happy visit because of another guest "expressing their freedom of speech"? It would be aweful to have someone near you constantly commenting on how ugly you are, that you should not wear spandex, that you are so skinny or too fat, that your hairdo is atrocious, or that you are not caring for your kids properly.

People have freedom of speech but when on private property they can lose that freedom of speech. A church, for example, might not allow kids to cuss or sing rap songs. A theatre asks guests to not yell. A boss may tell employees not to discuss personal stuff with clients.

[Narnia]

So if my DD gets to use her stroller as a wheelchair you would think that's wrong? My dd can't stand for a long time and being active when she is fatigued will make her lose her muscles faster(she has muscular dystrophy). I don't want her to become weaker because she can walk. Alot of disabled people can walk. Take my DH for instance he has walked for 15 years with his muscular dystrophy but at the parks ( and anywhere with a 5 minit walk since he doesn't have much muscle and bone stacks+ his back is so bent when he stands up it looks like he's going to break in two)he really needs a wheelchair. He is getting a new electric one because he's getting worse:( My DD will be worse then him due to her symptoms showing as a baby. I think that as long as they have the card then that's ok

[SueM in MN]

So if my DD gets to use her stroller as a wheelchair you would think that's wrong?
I think that the only person who knows they need to use a wheelchair or stroller as a wheelchair is the person using it.
Strollers are not allowed in lines without a Guest Assistance Card or sticker that allows them to be brought into lines. Wheelchairs don't need anything to be brought into lines - just are just allowed.

Some people are possibly renting a wheelchair and putting 2 children in it instead of renting a double stroller because recently the cost of the double strollers went up tremendously.
The people who are renting it know whether they are doing it to save money/for convenience or whether they are doing it because their child (children) need it because of a hidden disability. If they only use it outside of lines/attractions, it doesn't really matter unless the park runs out of wheelchairs.
No one would have a problem with people using it in lines because of a hidden disability. But, if people are using it in lines for convenience (which no one can really tell by looking), then they are being rude to the guests who actually do have hidden disabilities.

Not trying to speak for the other posters, but I think this is what some were trying to get at.

[Piper]

So if my DD gets to use her stroller as a wheelchair you would think that's wrong? My dd can't stand for a long time and being active when she is fatigued will make her lose her muscles faster(she has muscular dystrophy). I don't want her to become weaker because she can walk. Alot of disabled people can walk. Take my DH for instance he has walked for 15 years with his muscular dystrophy but at the parks ( and anywhere with a 5 minit walk since he doesn't have much muscle and bone stacks+ his back is so bent when he stands up it looks like he's going to break in two)he really needs a wheelchair. He is getting a new electric one because he's getting worse:( My DD will be worse then him due to her symptoms showing as a baby. I think that as long as they have the card then that's ok


It will not be wrong--don't let other people who have no idea of your situation keep you from doing what is right for your family. Your doing what you need to do in no way hurts others---if they want to take issue, so what!?! Heck, you could even say you are doing them a service---they are obviously looking for something to complain about!:rotfl2:

[Willow1213]

I think what the poster was referring to was using a WHEELCHAIR as a STROLLER and not the other way around. You are more than entitled to use a STROLLER as a WHEELCHAIR when necessary. I was slightly confused as well. There is "stroller as a wheelchair" talk on here all the time, so the opposite wording is a little confusing. With high stroller rental prices, I have seen this happen more than once.

[dclfun]

During our last trip we saw several families with multiple children in rented w/c's. I'm not one to judge either but since I now have a grandson I overheard conversations by their parents when we were putting his stroller in the "stroller parking" area before entering the queue lines. The conversations indicated to me that the w/c's were not needed for a disability but in fact were being brought in line because the guests thought it would allow their children to sit up front. They were arguing over whether to park the w/c when the conversation came up. This was at both the Lion King and Nemo attraction in DAK- different adults/slightly different conversation but it was about misperceptions of what a w/c could "do for them". In our resort it was pretty much the same thing. Parents in the check in line were discussing asking for a w/c from the front desk as their friends had told them that *their* child got to bypass lines and they didn't have to waste time for searching for the strollers later or potentially have to hold their child in line. For Pat's daughter it's disheartening to even have to worry about someone judging Bridget after all she's been through. I feel it's tough to be anyone with a disability sometimes but probably moreso for a teen whose life revolves around friends- it's tough to be left out because you can't keep up.---Kathy

[SueM in MN]

I think what the poster was referring to was using a WHEELCHAIR as a STROLLER and not the other way around. You are more than entitled to use a STROLLER as a WHEELCHAIR when necessary. I was slightly confused as well. There is "stroller as a wheelchair" talk on here all the time, so the opposite wording is a little confusing. With high stroller rental prices, I have seen this happen more than once.
That's the perfect way to explain it.

People who are using a STROLLER as a WHEELCHAIR are doing so because their child has a disability or condition that makes doing so necessary.
STROLLERS as WHEELCHAIRS are treated just like a wheelchair - coming into buildings, lines and into wheelchair seating areas that strollers are not usually allowed. That doesn't happen automatically; the family of the child needs to go to Guest Services and explain their needs. People using STROLLERS as WHEELCHAIRS have a right to use them as wheelchairs.

People who are using a WHEELCHAIR as a STROLLER have a need/want for a stroller, but are using a wheelchair instead of using a stroller. If they are only using the wheelchair to get from place to place, it doesn't really impact anyone except them (the park rental wheelchairs are heavier and much harder to push than a park rental stroller). The only impact those people might have on others would be if the park runs out of wheelchairs for people who need to use a wheelchair as a WHEELCHAIR for mobility or other reasons.
If someone is using a WHEELCHAIR as a STROLLER in lines, buildings or seating areas as a convenience or for what it can get them, it impacts other people who are using wheelchair or STROLLER as WHEELCHAIR because of need.
Shows have limited numbers of wheelchair spots.
Rides can usually only allow a certain number of people with special needs into the building at the same time for fire safety/evacuation reasons.
If those 'spots' are filled with people using a WHEELCHAIR as a STROLLER, that means the show/ride might be 'full' and people who actually need wheelchairs or STROLLERS as WHEELCHAIRs will have to wait longer or may not get to see the show at all.

Since the only person who knows whether the wheelchair is being used for need is the person/family using it, we have to count on people using WHEELCHAIRS as STROLLERS to be considerate of others.

[KPeveler]

So if my DD gets to use her stroller as a wheelchair you would think that's wrong? My dd can't stand for a long time and being active when she is fatigued will make her lose her muscles faster(she has muscular dystrophy). I don't want her to become weaker because she can walk. Alot of disabled people can walk. Take my DH for instance he has walked for 15 years with his muscular dystrophy but at the parks ( and anywhere with a 5 minit walk since he doesn't have much muscle and bone stacks+ his back is so bent when he stands up it looks like he's going to break in two)he really needs a wheelchair. He is getting a new electric one because he's getting worse:( My DD will be worse then him due to her symptoms showing as a baby. I think that as long as they have the card then that's ok

ok, maybe i was unclear. i do not have a problem with people using a stroller as a wheelchair, or even a wc as a stroller (meaning as a convenience, with their child having no special needs of any kind). my problem is with people who are using a WHEELCHAIR as a STROLLER and take it into the lines, while stroller (NOT one being used as a wheelchair) would not be allowed.

on a lot of rides there is a limit to the number of people with disabilities who can ride at once. since a CM cannot tell who is using a wheelchair as a mobility device, and who is using it as a stroller for convenience purposes only, they have to assume that everyone in a wheelchair has a disability.

i know some people with disabilities can walk - i am one of them!

i just wish more people were aware that their money saving measure of renting a wheelchair for their able-bodied non-disabled child can negatively affect those of us who use the wheelchairs as a mobility device, even if they do not mean to.

i am in no way saying there should be a change in wheelchair policy in disney... i just think it is a matter of education and teaching people that putting kids in a wheelchair to save $20 on a stroller may not be the best plan, and can negatively affect those around you.

[PatMcDuck]

fOLLOW UP, DD did not use a wheelchair at Six Flags, they just rested alot. They asked for a pass, though. DD has a disease that is a skin muscle auto immune thing. The pass let her sit instead of waiting on line, but she had to stay on that one bench, outside the ride, for the length of time the line was. Well, that is not that bad, but the benches were always in the sun.

They rode 3 rides all day, DD had to walk slowly and rest often. She should have used a wheelchair, and I would have pushed for a better access pass. I could have explained the disease better. She called before going, and they asked for a DR note, too, unlike WDW. I will get a better note from Dr for the future. And if I drop her off, I will take her inside to get that pass. then we can save it to get future ones, I think.

Well, DD also refused to wear a HAT like she is supposed to. She did apply 75 sunblock over and over. Despite this, she had a mild disease flare, only a very itchy rash on face for 5 days. (no obvious sunburn, but she did have the flare anyway). Hopefully her labs will be ok when we check them this week, indicating that her muscles did not flare as well.

[Schmeck]

The point of contacting a CM is not for a formal trip out of the park. The CM can go over to the rude guest and ask them to knock it off. I would not go to a CM unless it got so bad that they were nonstop with comments and snide remarks. CMs may not have the power to do anything at times but they do tend to scare off the creeps and annoying people. Should one guest not have a happy visit because of another guest "expressing their freedom of speech"? It would be aweful to have someone near you constantly commenting on how ugly you are, that you should not wear spandex, that you are so skinny or too fat, that your hairdo is atrocious, or that you are not caring for your kids properly.

People have freedom of speech but when on private property they can lose that freedom of speech. A church, for example, might not allow kids to cuss or sing rap songs. A theatre asks guests to not yell. A boss may tell employees not to discuss personal stuff with clients.

A CM does not have the authority to tell anyone to 'knock it off' for saying anything rude - they only have the authority to have a person's ticket revoked. There is no safety issue involved with being rude, so a CM getting involved would be rare, unless people were shouting/creating a scene.

People do not lose their right of free speech on all privte property. Property being used for commercial reasons falls under different laws than a church, etc. There is the "common nuisance" type of laws that allow removal of people causing a disturbance, but standing behind someone in line and talking to someone else about their appearance is not a common nuisance. It's mean and nasty and cruel, though.

[mechurchlady]

The original poster was actually talking about her teenaged daughter going to a park in a wheelchair and the attitude people may have given her.

Schmeck are you saying that if someone is sitting there being rude that I the guest am supposed to sit and take it. I do believe the parks have rules about guests interrupting the happiness of other guests and that guests can be removed if they are too disruptive.

Furthermore I would not want to be any business that allowed people to sit there and call me names or otherwise verbally abuse me. In the past I have at least once talked to a CM about a rude guest and that solved the problem. Just the mere act of a CM saying "Please, do not harrass the other guests or security will be called." is enough to shut up most people. I guess I will wait for Sue or Cheshire to please explain to me how the way parks have so changed. If it is the way Schmeck is saying then I doubt I will want to be in WDW or any Disney site or store any more as it would not be safe or happy possibly.

I guess I have met and known the minority of CMs though was lead to believe they were the majority.:confused3 Also Sue is my guardian angel on this site and if I am wrong she immediately corrects me or adds more info. Cheshire also is there to watch over me. I am so confused now,

[BabyFu18]

I'm kind of worried about the same thing, about people looking at me and thinking I don't need to use a wheelchair because I don't have a condition that you can see on the outside.

At my age I'm afriad people will look at me and make comments about me trying to cheat the system, or that I'm abusing the system by using a wheelchair (because I plan to do some walking, but I won't be able to hold out doing a lot of walking). I have several medical conditions, but none of which are physically noticeable, and I'd hate to think a physically disabled person would have ill feelings toward my wheelchair use, that concerns me more than anything else.

I guess the best thing for you to tell your daughter is to ignore what other people say, she understands her restrictions and she knows that if she needs the wheelchair it's fine. People will say things, they can't help... if they don't understand something the easiest thing to do is criticize. It's just something you have to (hopefully) let roll off your back sometimes.

[Schmeck]

The original poster was actually talking about her teenaged daughter going to a park in a wheelchair and the attitude people may have given her.

Schmeck are you saying that if someone is sitting there being rude that I the guest am supposed to sit and take it. I do believe the parks have rules about guests interrupting the happiness of other guests and that guests can be removed if they are too disruptive.

Furthermore I would not want to be any business that allowed people to sit there and call me names or otherwise verbally abuse me. In the past I have at least once talked to a CM about a rude guest and that solved the problem. Just the mere act of a CM saying "Please, do not harrass the other guests or security will be called." is enough to shut up most people. I guess I will wait for Sue or Cheshire to please explain to me how the way parks have so changed. If it is the way Schmeck is saying then I doubt I will want to be in WDW or any Disney site or store any more as it would not be safe or happy possibly.

I guess I have met and known the minority of CMs though was lead to believe they were the majority.:confused3 Also Sue is my guardian angel on this site and if I am wrong she immediately corrects me or adds more info. Cheshire also is there to watch over me. I am so confused now,

If someone is behind you and is bombarding you with constant harrassment, then yes, a CM will be glad to deal with the situation. I took your original statement to mean that someone came up in line and made one or two rude comments, or were talking to each other about you. Two people can have a conversation at WDW, even if it is not a nice conversation, and as long as it is not directed at you, they can discuss your appearance as much as they want. If they direct their comments to you, and you feel threatened, then by all means get a CM to deal with the situation.

For example, this past week when I was at WDW we had some line-cutters at the Land pavilion. A few guests tried to point out that the back of the line was about 40 feet past where they were standing. Two guests behind me started a conversation about the manners of that family, how they were either clueless or rude, and maybe they thought their family was more special than the others waiting patiently? As those comments were said in earshot of the offending family, but not directed to the family, what could a CM do? Everyone has the right to state their opinion. We're doing it here on this message board.

[mechurchlady]

apology accepted.

[rwrocksme]

I am a teenager in a very similar position. Unless you look very closely, (where you see that my lips and fingernails are a lovely shade of purple) I look fine. But I MUST use a chair, especially in a place like Disney. If I feel like someone is watching me, say, get into a ride, I put on a little show for them. I hate to need to do this, and I probably should have enough dignity to not feel the need to do it, but I fake a limp. Unless we're going on the Tomorrowland Transit Authority, in which case, I don't care because that's my favorite ride and I get all excited. :goodvibes