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View Full Version : Am I allowed to scan my MK shoot pics & other random debates...


PrincessBride010103
05-30-2008, 11:24 AM
I know I don't own the rights to my pics, but does anyone know if I allowed to scan my proofs and post them?

wendy46001
05-30-2008, 11:36 AM
worked just fine for us
figured if i wasn’t supposed to there would be a blue line
or proof stamped across them

PrincessBride010103
05-30-2008, 11:41 AM
worked just fine for us
figured if i wasn’t supposed to there would be a blue line
or proof stamped across them

Thanks! :goodvibes :hug:

Swmhc
05-30-2008, 11:44 AM
Legally, I don't think you are supposed to...does everyone do it.....yes. I did break down and order a wall portrait of one of ours and one 8 x 10, to hold me over until my 3 year mark for my discounted CD.

alissa2008
05-30-2008, 11:52 AM
I hate this rule. They are YOUR pictures and not only should you get every single negative (or cd copy) but you should also have the right to do whatever you want with them!! (without paying $1,000!). This really fries me. But, I have to succumb because I want my MK shoot. :confused3 Super suck.:furious:

Cosi Bella
05-30-2008, 12:03 PM
I hate this rule. They are YOUR pictures and not only should you get every single negative (or cd copy) but you should also have the right to do whatever you want with them!! (without paying $1,000!). This really fries me. But, I have to succumb because I want my MK shoot. :confused3 Super suck.:furious:

This buggs me too. I really wish if nothing else, the price for your CD would at least be more affordable! 1000 is a lot of money! Darnit!

SarahInMN
05-30-2008, 12:27 PM
This buggs me too. I really wish if nothing else, the price for your CD would at least be more affordable! 1000 is a lot of money! Darnit!

In addition, it also bothers me that even if one chooses to buy the CD for 1000$, the images aren't high resolution. So, the image files on the CD are acceptable for emailing or posting but aren't acceptable for ordering prints and so forth.

We asked our planner about this: we would have paid the 1000$ for a high res CD because it is easy to use Disney Photography. Once we found out that the CD wasn't high res, we hired an outside photographer.

PrincessBride010103
05-30-2008, 12:29 PM
In addition, it also bothers me that even if one chooses to buy the CD for 1000$, the images aren't high resolution. So, the image files on the CD are acceptable for emailing or posting but aren't acceptable for ordering prints and so forth.

We asked our planner about this: we would have paid the 1000$ for a high res CD because it is easy to use Disney Photography. Once we found out that the CD wasn't high res, we hired an outside photographer.

:scared1: how much for the hi-res cd???????????

feline figaro
05-30-2008, 12:34 PM
I just think its mad you have to pay extra for any of this, MK Shoot is pricey enough as it is. That should include you getting a cd of all of your pics, i think its madness that you then have top pay extra to get them.

So what exactly do you get for the money you pay for the MK Shoot???

They sure do make everything super confusing :confused3

PrincessBride010103
05-30-2008, 12:36 PM
I just think its mad you have to pay extra for any of this, MK Shoot is pricey enough as it is. That should include you getting a cd of all of your pics, i think its madness that you then have top pay extra to get them.

So what exactly do you get for the money you pay for the MK Shoot???

They sure do make everything super confusing :confused3

You get:
-The shoot
-All your proofs printed in 4x6
-An album with 12 pictures (5x7)

lurkyloo
05-30-2008, 01:07 PM
Sarah, are you sure they meant that the CD you buy for $1,000 is lo-res and not that the CD that comes with Disney's photography packages is lo-res?

Because the info on DPS's wedding photography packages says that you get a CD of lo-res images. But there's no written info on the resolution of the images on the $1,000 CD - and that would be ridiculous to pay that much for photos you can't print above 2x3 inches!

We'll have to see if one of the people who bought the "hi-res" CD after three years can confirm whether the images were indeed hi-res....

wendy46001
05-30-2008, 01:13 PM
In addition, it also bothers me that even if one chooses to buy the CD for 1000$, the images aren't high resolution. So, the image files on the CD are acceptable for emailing or posting but aren't acceptable for ordering prints and so forth.

We asked our planner about this: we would have paid the 1000$ for a high res CD because it is easy to use Disney Photography. Once we found out that the CD wasn't high res, we hired an outside photographer.

the 1000 CD is the high res one
the other one is like 100 and is only email size 4*6

msmayor
05-30-2008, 01:48 PM
I hate this rule. They are YOUR pictures and not only should you get every single negative (or cd copy) but you should also have the right to do whatever you want with them!! (without paying $1,000!). This really fries me. But, I have to succumb because I want my MK shoot. :confused3 Super suck.:furious:

No, they're not YOUR pictures. They belong to the photographer...the artist...who created them. You are buying copies of his/her creation.

This is no different than any other truly professional photographer out there. Some will allow you to buy the negatives...when I married, my photographer offered them to me for $800. You are contracting for photographic SERVICES...the taking of pictures and the option to purchase them. Its up to the photographer to decide if he or she wants to release them fully.

Every artist owns the rights to his work unless he/she agrees to release that right in writing or by agreement. Absent that, anyone copying that work is in violation of the copyright. Its up to the artist who owns the copyright to decide if its worth their time to pursue action against the violator.

SarahInMN
05-30-2008, 02:00 PM
the 1000 CD is the high res one
the other one is like 100 and is only email size 4*6


Really???? Our planner told us that the 1000$ one wasn't high res. Which seemed ridiculous. Well, actually 1000 even for a high res CD seems a tad ridiculous.

Oh well: we've already hired an outside photographer (which has ended up being way less expensive).

wendy46001
05-30-2008, 02:12 PM
Really???? Our planner told us that the 1000$ one wasn't high res. Which seemed ridiculous. Well, actually 1000 even for a high res CD seems a tad ridiculous.

Oh well: we've already hired an outside photographer (which has ended up being way less expensive).

It is a bit ridiculous but impatient me bought it...LOL
actually we switched our package to get a CD instead of a large album
and just got the smaller ones....

Skylarr29
05-30-2008, 02:53 PM
No, they're not YOUR pictures. They belong to the photographer...the artist...who created them. You are buying copies of his/her creation.

This is no different than any other truly professional photographer out there. Some will allow you to buy the negatives...when I married, my photographer offered them to me for $800. You are contracting for photographic SERVICES...the taking of pictures and the option to purchase them. Its up to the photographer to decide if he or she wants to release them fully.

Every artist owns the rights to his work unless he/she agrees to release that right in writing or by agreement. Absent that, anyone copying that work is in violation of the copyright. Its up to the artist who owns the copyright to decide if its worth their time to pursue action against the violator.

Well I am not sure when you were married but now a days almost every photographer includes a CD/DVD with images included in the package.

I am flying in one of the best photographers in the country and guess what? My CD is included and I have the rights to MY photos.

Why Disney wants you to pay 1K for a CD with more than likely crappy MK photos is beyond me. Will I pay it? Yes.... Why? Because as much as it sucks I want MK photos.

PrincessBride010103
05-30-2008, 02:55 PM
Well I am not sure when you were married but now a days almost every photographer includes a CD/DVD with images included in the package.

I am flying in one of the best photographers in the country and guess what? My CD is included and I have the rights to MY photos.

Why Disney wants you to pay 1K for a CD with more than likely crappy MK photos is beyond me. Will I pay it? Yes.... Why? Because as much as it sucks I want MK photos.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

SarahInMN
05-30-2008, 03:20 PM
It is a bit ridiculous but impatient me bought it...LOL


Actually, I would have too if I had known it was high res. :lmao:

feline figaro
05-30-2008, 05:20 PM
Well I am not sure when you were married but now a days almost every photographer includes a CD/DVD with images included in the package.

I am flying in one of the best photographers in the country and guess what? My CD is included and I have the rights to MY photos.

Why Disney wants you to pay 1K for a CD with more than likely crappy MK photos is beyond me. Will I pay it? Yes.... Why? Because as much as it sucks I want MK photos.

Well said, i totally agree with you on that point !!

GlobalDiva
05-30-2008, 05:46 PM
No, they're not YOUR pictures. They belong to the photographer...the artist...who created them. You are buying copies of his/her creation.

This is no different than any other truly professional photographer out there. Some will allow you to buy the negatives...when I married, my photographer offered them to me for $800. You are contracting for photographic SERVICES...the taking of pictures and the option to purchase them. Its up to the photographer to decide if he or she wants to release them fully.

Every artist owns the rights to his work unless he/she agrees to release that right in writing or by agreement. Absent that, anyone copying that work is in violation of the copyright. Its up to the artist who owns the copyright to decide if its worth their time to pursue action against the violator.

In my opinion, that's pretty debatable, and I don't completely agree with that take; it's an outdated way of doing business. It's NOT a fully original creation because the picture doesn't happen without you in it. You're paying a professional to take a picture of you. The photographer didn't spontaneously create my face and my dress!

"Contracting for photographic services" is semantics; no one hires a photographer just to be there to document the event; people hire photographers to acquire pictures that they can frame and hang on the wall.

I do also see the photog's point of view because I'm marrying an artist. A professional must make a living; I don't believe that things should come for free. But even DF who is an artist thinks that that mindset is not really sensible. On the flipside of what you're saying, if the photographer owns the rights to pictures of my face, that means that he/she can do a slew of things that he/she wants with my picture for profit or otherwise.

I do agree with you though that it's up to the photographer whether he/she will release the rights. And eventually, if photographers want to stay competitive, more and more of them will include the rights to the pictures, or sell them at a REASONABLE price, as so many of the outside photographers that DISbrides use do.

msmayor
05-30-2008, 06:55 PM
On the flipside of what you're saying, if the photographer owns the rights to pictures of my face, that means that he/she can do a slew of things that he/she wants with my picture for profit or otherwise.

Maybe he can do all sorts of things to your picture, but I seriously doubt he can profit from it outside of your transaction with him unless YOU have signed a release form granting him permission to use your image.

Listen, I know the price of photography is high. And I think its great that some photographers automatically include a DVD in their package...but I suspect that their prices are goosed up a bit to cover their own lost revenue in prints they would normally make by giving you the right to do it yourself.

Skylarr29
05-30-2008, 08:43 PM
Listen, I know the price of photography is high. And I think its great that some photographers automatically include a DVD in their package...but I suspect that their prices are goosed up a bit to cover their own lost revenue in prints they would normally make by giving you the right to do it yourself.


I totally agree with you on this. The prices are probably goosed up to cover the cost.

I think the issue is that Disney is quite expensive to begin with and then to have to pay an additional 1K is upsetting to most. I know I paid 7,500 for photography but what I am getting is much more than any of Disney's packages.

I think it is frustrating to pay 1K for about an hour of photography and then if you actually want the photos it costs another 1K.

Gdad
05-30-2008, 08:55 PM
In my opinion, that's pretty debatable, and I don't completely agree with that take; it's an outdated way of doing business. It's NOT a fully original creation because the picture doesn't happen without you in it. You're paying a professional to take a picture of you. The photographer didn't spontaneously create my face and my dress!

"Contracting for photographic services" is semantics; no one hires a photographer just to be there to document the event; people hire photographers to acquire pictures that they can frame and hang on the wall.

I do also see the photog's point of view because I'm marrying an artist. A professional must make a living; I don't believe that things should come for free. But even DF who is an artist thinks that that mindset is not really sensible. On the flipside of what you're saying, if the photographer owns the rights to pictures of my face, that means that he/she can do a slew of things that he/she wants with my picture for profit or otherwise.

I do agree with you though that it's up to the photographer whether he/she will release the rights. And eventually, if photographers want to stay competitive, more and more of them will include the rights to the pictures, or sell them at a REASONABLE price, as so many of the outside photographers that DISbrides use do.

There is no legal debate as to the ownership of digital images and/or film negatives- they belong to the photographer unless he or she releases them. Final use of these should be addressed up front in your written contract with the photographer. Likewise- the photographer cannot use your picture for any commercial purpose such advertising, portfolio material, etc. unless you sign a modeling agreement to that effect.

Lynn5700
05-30-2008, 10:22 PM
Well I am not sure when you were married but now a days almost every photographer includes a CD/DVD with images included in the package.

I am flying in one of the best photographers in the country and guess what? My CD is included and I have the rights to MY photos.

Why Disney wants you to pay 1K for a CD with more than likely crappy MK photos is beyond me. Will I pay it? Yes.... Why? Because as much as it sucks I want MK photos.

Yeah I totally agree with you..IMO if it's a picture of you then they are your pictures,not the photographers...if I was one I wouldn't want the rights to random peoples wedding pictures lol..seriously..you pay to have them take your pictures not to have them keep them and charge you a grand for the negatives....

BTW the quality in Disney Photogrpahy is not that great so to me it isn't worth how much they charge for prints...I just got my Honeymoon prints and I could get better prints from Target.seriously..I loved my photographer though,she was great!!!

ukcatfan
05-30-2008, 11:05 PM
Yeah I totally agree with you..IMO if it's a picture of you then they are your pictures,not the photographers...if I was one I wouldn't want the rights to random peoples wedding pictures lol..seriously..you pay to have them take your pictures not to have them keep them and charge you a grand for the negatives....


Do not confuse what you feel is the ethical thing to do vs. the law. The law says that the photographer owns the shot. Period. It is not debatable. If they are giving you the rights to them in your contract, be sure that they are building that into the price. After the economy recovers, do not be surprised if less photographers give the negatives as part of the package. Expendable services, like photography, are feeling the crunch more than most. They are willing to give a little more right now just to get a job.

Also, if you were a professional photographer that didn't want the rights to the pictures you took, then you would not have to worry very long. You would go out of business. Don't forget that every hour of shooting might have eight hours or more of post processing time afterwards. Time is money. If you give it away, you make no money.

Kevin

PrincessBride010103
05-30-2008, 11:14 PM
Maybe he can do all sorts of things to your picture, but I seriously doubt he can profit from it outside of your transaction with him unless YOU have signed a release form granting him permission to use your image.

Listen, I know the price of photography is high. And I think its great that some photographers automatically include a DVD in their package...but I suspect that their prices are goosed up a bit to cover their own lost revenue in prints they would normally make by giving you the right to do it yourself.

There is no legal debate as to the ownership of digital images and/or film negatives- they belong to the photographer unless he or she releases them. Final use of these should be addressed up front in your written contract with the photographer. Likewise- the photographer cannot use your picture for any commercial purpose such advertising, portfolio material, etc. unless you sign a modeling agreement to that effect.

Do not confuse what you feel is the ethical thing to do vs. the law. The law says that the photographer owns the shot. Period. It is not debatable. If they are giving you the rights to them in your contract, be sure that they are building that into the price. After the economy recovers, do not be surprised if less photographers give the negatives as part of the package. Expendable services, like photography, are feeling the crunch more than most. They are willing to give a little more right now just to get a job.

Also, if you were a professional photographer that didn't want the rights to the pictures you took, then you would not have to worry very long. You would go out of business. Don't forget that every hour of shooting might have eight hours or more of post processing time afterwards. Time is money. If you give it away, you make no money.

Kevin


I'm totally not trying to be rude, I'm just genuinely curious, where did you all come from? Are you all friends? Cuz it's strange on this board to have so many unfamiliar posters...especially in one thread. Again, not trying to be snarky just really wondering

PS- I'm gona go out on a limb and say that most photographers that shoot disney weddings arent suffering because of the economy right now. lots of europeans take advantage of the weak dollar. and there are still a bajillion people getting married at disney.

Lynn5700
05-30-2008, 11:23 PM
I'm totally not trying to be rude, I'm just genuinely curious, where did you all come from? Are you all friends? Cuz it's strange on this board to have so many unfamiliar posters...especially in one thread. Again, not trying to be snarky just really wondering

PS- I'm gona go out on a limb and say that most photographers that shoot disney weddings arent suffering because of the economy right now. lots of europeans take advantage of the weak dollar. and there are still a bajillion people getting married at disney.

Yeah I'm curious too Amanda lol......I kind of feel bad that your question turned into this stupid debate lol!!

I love your MK photos..they are the best I have seen..and you own those pictures so do what you want :) I love them!!!!!!

PrincessBride010103
05-30-2008, 11:27 PM
Yeah I'm curious too Amanda lol......I kind of feel bad that your question turned into this stupid debate lol!!

I love your MK photos..they are the best I have seen..and you own those pictures so do what you want :) I love them!!!!!!

Thanks Lynn :hug: I always look at them though and think what Randy could have done with such a backdrop! LOL we are spoiled by randy

wdwpluto
05-30-2008, 11:29 PM
Well I am not sure when you were married but now a days almost every photographer includes a CD/DVD with images included in the package.


Oh it may be included in the package, but rest assured, you're paying for it in your package price.

Honestly, most people have no idea about the amount of work that goes into shooting a wedding. You're on your feet for 8, 10, 12 or more hours shooting. You're lucky if you get fed. Running to the bathroom is iffy at best because what if, heaven forbid, you miss an important shot? Then there's the amount of time spent editing the images after the wedding. Probably another couple hours. And then there's all those hours for paperwork, answering emails from, and talking on the phone with the bride and groom. Oh, not to mention the cost of equipment (and yes, there are cheap DSLRs out there, but the pro DSLRs and pro glass are far more expensive - $2500 for the camera and another $1600 for ONE lens! - and yield sharper results) and things like liability insurance plus the cost of any prints and/or albums that are included in your package, plus things like education (seminars, ongoing learning) that most GOOD photographers partake in to keep up to date on trends and further themselves as artists. So please respect copyright.

As far as photogs profiting off your face in pictures, most wedding photographers contracts have model releases built in which specifically define how they can use the images. Read the contract. Make sure you understand it. If you don't want you images to be used for advertising, discuss it with your photographer.

That being said, our MK photo shoot was crap. So crappy that Disney refunded half of what we paid (this was back in 2002). There's no bloody way I would have paid a grand for a cd of files from that session. Had they been any good? Sure. In a heartbeat. But I value photography greatly. And after the wedding, really, what's left? Your pictures and your dress. My dress has been in a box for the past 6+ years. Our pictures from the wedding (shot by Gary Fox, negs included in his package, you can bet I paid a pretty penny for them) are all over the house. Keep that in mind when budgeting for your photography.

In response to where did we all come from? I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm a past Disney bride who visits the board occasionally when I have time. If you search, I'm sure you can find my wedding trip report somewhere in the archives here.

Lynn5700
05-30-2008, 11:31 PM
Thanks Lynn :hug: I always look at them though and think what Randy could have done with such a backdrop! LOL we are spoiled by randy

Yeah we are and hmmm isn't it funny how all printed proofs are included in your package and CDs of all images and you can't beat his prices and he isn't going out of business anytime soon he must be doing something right...and the quality of his pictures are AMAZING!!!!

Lynn5700
05-30-2008, 11:34 PM
Please stand clear of the doors. Por favor mantengase alejardo de las puertas.

WDWpluto..I love your siggy lol!!!! now I know what they say in spanish on the monorail lol.....we were trying to figure it out!!! I have to show this to my husband lol.

ukcatfan
05-30-2008, 11:36 PM
I'm totally not trying to be rude, I'm just genuinely curious, where did you all come from? Are you all friends? Cuz it's strange on this board to have so many unfamiliar posters...especially in one thread. Again, not trying to be snarky just really wondering


Gdad gets around more than me, but we come from the Photography Board. http://www.disboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=97 Many Disers do not even know it exists.

wdwpluto
05-30-2008, 11:43 PM
Please stand clear of the doors. Por favor mantengase alejardo de las puertas.

WDWpluto..I love your siggy lol!!!! now I know what they say in spanish on the monorail lol.....we were trying to figure it out!!! I have to show this to my husband lol.

Thanks! I hate that it's no longer the same person doing the monorail announcements. It's just not the same. Isn't that dorky? :laughing:

PrincessBride010103
05-30-2008, 11:44 PM
it was so nice of gdad to start a thread over there making fun of our "photography debate"

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1841705

well now we know where they all came from..

DisneyBrideToni
05-30-2008, 11:48 PM
Are we being invaded by photographers now???? I am just catching up. :confused3

PrincessBride010103
05-30-2008, 11:49 PM
Are we being invaded by photographers now???? I am just catching up. :confused3

apparently! we disney brides are popular people!

DisneyBrideToni
05-30-2008, 11:52 PM
apparently! we disney brides are popular people!

Woo Hoo!! We are FAMOUS!!! Go US! :woohoo:

Sheesh, us Disney Brides are SUCH TROUBLE MAKERS!! :rotfl:

wdwpluto
05-30-2008, 11:53 PM
it was so nice of gdad to start a thread over there making fun of our "photography debate"

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1841705

well now we know where they all came from..

I don't think anyone's making fun. To photographers it's an important topic that affects business. IMHO, most consumers aren't educated about copyright and what it means. And why would they be? Just about everyone I know thinks that if you get your pics taken at Walmart you can scan 'em, copy 'em, do whatever the heck you want with 'em. And they do. Because most people don't know any better. Which is why OP asked. But I think that educating people about it is important.

Some photogs choose to include rights to reproduce your photos/high res files in your packages. Some choose to charge you extra. You can bet that in either case, you're paying for it some how. In many cases, the photographers who choose to include rights/files do so because they don't want to be bothered with creating albums. Their choice for their business model. But in many cases, photographers are feeling pressured into doing it "because all the other photographers are doing it".

If being able to post your pics online or make your own prints is important to you, choose your photographer accordingly.

Gdad
05-30-2008, 11:53 PM
Not making fun- it is a common discussion on the photography board- from youth sports to senior pictures to weddings it is a common issue. Sorry for the intrusion- just my $0,000,000.02.

Lynn5700
05-30-2008, 11:54 PM
Thanks! I hate that it's no longer the same person doing the monorail announcements. It's just not the same. Isn't that dorky? :laughing:

Oh lol I didn't know they changed the person...when did they change it?

DisneyBrideToni
05-30-2008, 11:57 PM
I do agree that photographers are artists. They have to have a good eye to see a good shot and MOST are worth the money that they charge. I guess without the photographers we would never be able to have memories of our big days.

DisneyBrideToni
05-30-2008, 11:58 PM
Oh lol I didn't know they changed the person...when did they change it?

AWWW they changed the monorail guy!!! Boo!!!

Miss Kelly
05-30-2008, 11:58 PM
..and you own those pictures so do what you want :)

Actually she does not own those photographs. The photographer owns all rights to those photographs. Please respect copyright laws.

wdwpluto
05-30-2008, 11:59 PM
Oh lol I didn't know they changed the person...when did they change it?

Few years ago, can't remember exactly when. 4-5 years maybe? I remember we came back on one trip (we used to live in NJ and come 2x/year) and the voice was different. Dorky, I told ya ;)

PrincessBride010103
05-30-2008, 11:59 PM
I don't think anyone's making fun. To photographers it's an important topic that affects business. IMHO, most consumers aren't educated about copyright and what it means. And why would they be? Just about everyone I know thinks that if you get your pics taken at Walmart you can scan 'em, copy 'em, do whatever the heck you want with 'em. And they do. Because most people don't know any better. Which is why OP asked. But I think that educating people about it is important.

Some photogs choose to include rights to reproduce your photos/high res files in your packages. Some choose to charge you extra. You can bet that in either case, you're paying for it some how. In many cases, the photographers who choose to include rights/files do so because they don't want to be bothered with creating albums. Their choice for their business model. But in many cases, photographers are feeling pressured into doing it "because all the other photographers are doing it".

If being able to post your pics online or make your own prints is important to you, choose your photographer accordingly.


1.) I am OP.
2.) My rights were included with my package as were many enlargements and a huge album...so that's not the reason he includes it...
3.) We don't need to be educated about copyrights...we all KNOW we don't own the stupid images...i jst wanted to know if i could scan them...and its kinda upsetting so we can whine all we want...being a past disney bride with a bad experience as you said on the other thread with your mk shoot, you must know it's annoying to shell out $1,000 for less than an hour of photography then buy enlargements that could be printed better at walgreens or have to pay another $1000 for rights.

DisneyBrideToni
05-31-2008, 12:03 AM
I have a feeling this thread is going to go on lockdown..:rotfl2:

Gdad
05-31-2008, 12:04 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7mIy97_rlo

DisneyBrideToni
05-31-2008, 12:05 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7mIy97_rlo

HAHAHA I liked that!!! That was funny. That was a good movie!! :thumbsup2

DecemberBride
05-31-2008, 12:07 AM
1.) I am OP.
2.) My rights were included with my package as were many enlargements and a huge album...so that's not the reason he includes it...
3.) We don't need to be educated about copyrights...we all KNOW we don't own the stupid images...i jst wanted to know if i could scan them...and its kinda upsetting so we can whine all we want...being a past disney bride with a bad experience as you said on the other thread with your mk shoot, you must know it's annoying to shell out $1,000 for less than an hour of photography then buy enlargements that could be printed better at walgreens or have to pay another $1000 for rights.


Ya'll should know better than to get into a debate with a pregnant chick! They always win! :rotfl:

PS: Amanda, hope you didn't get offended by pregnant comment, I love you and sticking up for you! It's like... I know I know, we get it already, right?

Lynn5700
05-31-2008, 12:07 AM
Yeah I have to sy I don't mind paying for my negatives but 1000 just to have a copy of them is a little too much if you ask me...ooooh and BTW this just came to my memory.....when I was planning on having my wedding at home I booked a videographer and with our package we got 3 edited versions of our video and this came straight of the videographers mouth..if you need more copies let me know....we don't charge you for copies because a blank cd costs like $1...so I don't see how it could cost a photographer a fortune to give somebody a CD of thier images..I honestly don't get it. What is the harm of giving somebody their pictures on a cd..you pop it in your computer copy the files..takes maybe 10-15 mins dependeing on how quick your computer is.

I just put 300 pictures on a cd and it took like 5-10 mins

wdwpluto
05-31-2008, 12:10 AM
2.) My rights were included with my package as were many enlargements and a huge album...so that's not the reason he includes it...

I said many, not all, choose to include rights so as not to have to deal with creating an album.

I'm confused though, your package includes the rights to reproduce the images, but you don't have the digital files to do so? If you've got the right to reproduce the images, you should have the files so which would save you from having to scan them. If you don't, well than that's just silly on the photographers part. I need to go back and re-read to see if I misunderstood.

..
3.) We don't need to be educated about copyrights...we all KNOW we don't own the stupid images...i jst wanted to know if i could scan them...and its kinda upsetting so we can whine all we want...being a past disney bride with a bad experience as you said on the other thread with your mk shoot, you must know it's annoying to shell out $1,000 for less than an hour of photography then buy enlargements that could be printed better at walgreens or have to pay another $1000 for rights.

Whine away. I'm the queen of the whiners, just ask my DH :)

I chose not to get ANY reprints of our MK pics, from any source. It's definitely annoying to shell out a lot of money for bad photography - which is why I wrote a letter of complaint to Disney Photo, who agreed that I had reason to complain and offered us a reshoot or a refund of 50%. We were living in NJ at the time, so we took the refund. But I would have gladly paid the full amount and then some to have had pictures that were good.

When you hire a photographer, you're paying for more than just the piece of paper that the image is printed on. Which is why photographers charge more for a 5x7 print than it costs to have your own images printed at Walgreens.

wdwpluto
05-31-2008, 12:12 AM
Yeah I have to sy I don't mind paying for my negatives but 1000 just to have a copy of them is a little too much if you ask me...ooooh and BTW this just came to my memory.....when I was planning on having my wedding at home I booked a videographer and with our package we got 3 edited versions of our video and this came straight of the videographers mouth..if you need more copies let me know....we don't charge you for copies because a blank cd costs like $1...so I don't see how it could cost a photographer a fortune to give somebody a CD of thier images..I honestly don't get it. What is the harm of giving somebody their pictures on a cd..you pop it in your computer copy the files..takes maybe 10-15 mins dependeing on how quick your computer is.

I just put 300 pictures on a cd and it took like 5-10 mins

When I proof something that I shoot, I do basic color correction/exposure adjustment as needed. When someone orders a print from me, I go in and fine tune the image, remove blemishes, stray hairs, etc. Multiply that times 1500 images or so to be put on a CD to give to a bride.

Don't do it, you say? And charge a lesser rate.

Sorry, I have too much pride in my work not to. And I want my clients to have the best possible images.

So it's more than just the cost of the CD and the 15 minutes to burn it.

DisneyBrideToni
05-31-2008, 12:12 AM
I just wish you could speak with the Disney photographer before he actually takes pictures. Sort of like a planning session with them to tell them what you are looking for in pictures, etc. I think that would help out the bride and the photographer.

Lynn5700
05-31-2008, 12:12 AM
1.) I am OP.
2.) My rights were included with my package as were many enlargements and a huge album...so that's not the reason he includes it...
3.) We don't need to be educated about copyrights...we all KNOW we don't own the stupid images...i jst wanted to know if i could scan them...and its kinda upsetting so we can whine all we want...being a past disney bride with a bad experience as you said on the other thread with your mk shoot, you must know it's annoying to shell out $1,000 for less than an hour of photography then buy enlargements that could be printed better at walgreens or have to pay another $1000 for rights.

It's so true you can get better prints at walgreens,cvs,target and else where lol..I swear to GOD the pictures that Disney sent me look like crap compared to pictures I took with my sony cybershot and got prints at target lol.

I have a feeling this thread is going to go on lockdown..:rotfl2:

Toni you are cracking me up lol

Ya'll should know better than to get into a debate with a pregnant chick! They always win! :rotfl:


PS: Amanda, hope you didn't get offended by pregnant comment, I love you and sticking up for you! It's like... I know I know, we get it already, right?

HAHA

theantibride
05-31-2008, 12:13 AM
I'm a photographer -- not wedding just free lance for some extra bucks when the opportunity arises, but I always photograph my friends weddings as well. I stay out of the way of the professional photographer and don't bumble in on the portraits or anything, just the action stuff. I take my professional equipment with me wherever I go and afterwards as an additional gift to the couple I give them print 4x6 copies of the pics and a hi-res cd with all the images on it. I also give them a signed release saying they can do anything they want with the images on the disc. They didn't pay me for my services or anything but I still own the copyright to those pictures which is why I give them the release so they can take it into Ritz or Target or someplace and have a wall mural made out of the pictures if they want to. I get that they may want to do stuff with their pictures (even if I shot it professionally) which is why I give them the disc (or in the case of my best friends wedding, 2 discs. I went a little photo crazy that day) and the release. I think that's why a lot of photographers do this now so that you can make your own enlargements or something. I know from my stand point it would be a little easier to include that price in my fee and then hand them over to a bride instead of trying to work on another wedding 6 months down the line and get calls from Mrs. X who wants 11x14s of this, this, and that now. Is Disney's fee for this high? Definitely, but since when does Disney and reasonable prices go hand in hand? And a photographer cannot make money off your face without your consent. I know I've asked friends if I could use pictures of them from their weddings in my portfolio, but I would never use them to make money because it would be illegal. I think if you want to scan in your pictures and share them with people so they can see it would be acceptable (not necessarily legal but not really frowned upon). Just don't post them on a site where people can order their own copies because then that is illegal because then that site is making money off of someone's copyrighted work. But if you wanted to scan in a picture to e-mail to Great Aunt Bertha then go ahead as long as she doesn't try to make a profit from it. In this day of age of cell phone cameras and e-mail and scanners it's unreasonable to think you won't share your pictures with others digitally so just do so responsibly. Make sense?

PrincessBride010103
05-31-2008, 12:14 AM
I said many, not all, choose to include rights so as not to have to deal with creating an album.

I'm confused though, your package includes the rights to reproduce the images, but you don't have the digital files to do so? If you've got the right to reproduce the images, you should have the files so which would save you from having to scan them. If you don't, well than that's just silly on the photographers part. I need to go back and re-read to see if I misunderstood.

sorry, i confused you, the package i was referring to in my rant was my wedding package with an outside photog...the pictures i was asking about were my mk shoot ones



Whine away. I'm the queen of the whiners, just ask my DH :)

I chose not to get ANY reprints of our MK pics, from any source. It's definitely annoying to shell out a lot of money for bad photography - which is why I wrote a letter of complaint to Disney Photo, who agreed that I had reason to complain and offered us a reshoot or a refund of 50%. We were living in NJ at the time, so we took the refund. But I would have gladly paid the full amount and then some to have had pictures that were good.

When you hire a photographer, you're paying for more than just the piece of paper that the image is printed on. Which is why photographers charge more for a 5x7 print than it costs to have your own images printed at Walgreens.

I know I'm paying for more than the paper..I'm paying for disney! What I want is better quality than walgreens...not better prices

DisneyBrideToni
05-31-2008, 12:16 AM
It's so true you can get better prints at walgreens,cvs,target and else where lol..I swear to GOD the pictures that Disney sent me look like crap compared to pictures I took with my sony cybershot and got prints at target lol.



Toni you are cracking me up lol



HAHA

:rotfl2: I am in a silly mood tonight!!! I don't know what my problem is. I am cracking myself up over here. :rotfl:

DecemberBride
05-31-2008, 12:16 AM
I just wish you could speak with the Disney photographer before he actually takes pictures. Sort of like a planning session with them to tell them what you are looking for in pictures, etc. I think that would help out the bride and the photographer.

I totally agree... sometimes with the MK shoot (from what I read) it's not always the cost of reprints, most aren't happy with most pictures taken from the beginning... i think it need to be finetuned, so more brides are happy. Whether prints or CD's are onvolved or not, we want great pictures for the money spent.

PrincessBride010103
05-31-2008, 12:17 AM
Ya'll should know better than to get into a debate with a pregnant chick! They always win! :rotfl:

PS: Amanda, hope you didn't get offended by pregnant comment, I love you and sticking up for you! It's like... I know I know, we get it already, right?

:rotfl2: :hug: :cutie: LOL johanna!

wdwpluto
05-31-2008, 12:18 AM
sorry, i confused you, the package i was referring to in my rant was my wedding package with an outside photog...the pictures i was asking about were my mk shoot ones


Gotcha, that makes sense now :)



I know I'm paying for more than the paper..I'm paying for disney! What I want is better quality than walgreens...not better prices

I agree 100%. I honestly (and mind you, this was back in 2002 when we got married) found the quality and style of the Disney Photographers not to my liking. So, like you, we hired an outside photographer.

It's sad that with the MK photo sessions we're stuck with them (and at a pretty high price for a brief time). :( I can't tell you how much I cried over our MK pics when we got them back.

DecemberBride
05-31-2008, 12:19 AM
:rotfl2: :hug: :cutie: LOL johanna!

I knew you had a sense of humor!!!!!! :hug:

Lynn5700
05-31-2008, 12:19 AM
When I proof something that I shoot, I do basic color correction/exposure adjustment as needed. When someone orders a print from me, I go in and fine tune the image, remove blemishes, stray hairs, etc. Multiply that times 1500 images or so to be put on a CD to give to a bride.

Don't do it, you say? And charge a lesser rate.

Sorry, I have too much pride in my work not to. And I want my clients to have the best possible images.

So it's more than just the cost of the CD and the 15 minutes to burn it.

Yeah I see what your saying...I just think that the disney wedding packages don't really do that and I think 1000 is a little crazy in price for a copy of your images...

So I'm assuming photogs will take the time to edit every pic anyway regardless if the client is buying a cd or not so what is it going to hurt if they get a copy of the images..or maybe photogs could do something like give them the raw images/un photoshopped images on a cd and charge for photoshopped ones..IDK that would seem like the photographer isn't missing out on money...I think maybe just charge for the ones that they spend time editing.

UOTE=DisneyBrideToni;25415260]I just wish you could speak with the Disney photographer before he actually takes pictures. Sort of like a planning session with them to tell them what you are looking for in pictures, etc. I think that would help out the bride and the photographer.[/QUOTE]

yeah that would be nice

PrincessBride010103
05-31-2008, 12:21 AM
I knew you had a sense of humor!!!!!! :hug:

that is one thing this pregnancy will NOT steal from me...my sense of humor!

Gdad
05-31-2008, 12:26 AM
I just wish you could speak with the Disney photographer before he actually takes pictures. Sort of like a planning session with them to tell them what you are looking for in pictures, etc. I think that would help out the bride and the photographer.

Why can't you? Disney does not make arrangements for it? Does it cost extra or something? I have no idea why they would not do this as standard practice- I would not even consider shooting a wedding where I had not had a preplanning meeting.

DisneyBrideToni
05-31-2008, 12:27 AM
I also think its important to speak with the photogs before because it gives the photographer an idea of the couple and their personality. I think that can help the photographer be creative in trying to capture the couple along with the scenery and events.

DisneyBrideToni
05-31-2008, 12:28 AM
Why can't you? Disney does not make arrangements for it? Does it cost extra or something? I have no idea why they would not do this as standard practice- I would not even consider shooting a wedding where I had not had a preplanning meeting.

Nope as far as I know the first time you speak with them is your wedding day. :worried:

wdwpluto
05-31-2008, 12:29 AM
Yeah I see what your saying...I just think that the disney wedding packages don't really do that and I think 1000 is a little crazy in price for a copy of your images...


If they don't (and I don't know how they work, so I can't speak to that) then yeah, $1000 is crazy.


So I'm assuming photogs will take the time to edit every pic anyway regardless if the client is buying a cd or not so what is it going to hurt if they get a copy of the images..or maybe photogs could do something like give them the raw images/un photoshopped images on a cd and charge for photoshopped ones..IDK that would seem like the photographer isn't missing out on money...I think maybe just charge for the ones that they spend time editing.

I can only speak for myself (and I know a few other colleagues who handle this the same way) I do a rough edit (using a batch procedure in Adobe Lightroom) for proofs. I don't do printed proofs, I do online viewing. This takes time, but not as much time as a fine tuning edit, which is what I do when a print is ordered or an image is included in an album.

When a print is ordered or an image is included in the album, I open it up in Photoshop and spend a fair amount of time making sure it's flawless. Because that's what my clients expect and deserve. To do that to every single image is time consuming, hence the reason photographers charge for files.

I wouldn't give out the RAW/unretouched files because say you take them and print them at Walgreens and you've got some funny stray hair sticking up and your face is maybe a little shiny because it's a typical humid Florida day. Then you show them to your friends and say wdwpluto too this. Well I did, but if you'd gotten a print from me, your skin would be flawless and your stray hairs would magically be gone. And that's a true representation of the service that I provide.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, truly, I'm not. Just giving my opinion, having once been a bride myself and now being on the other side of the fence.

And I agree strongly with whoever said that Disney ought to let you speak with your photographer ahead of time. It's important that everyone's on the same page as far as photos and that you click (no pun intended) w/ your wedding photographer. Heck, most brides spend as much, if not more, time w/ their photog on the wedding day then they do w/ their husband.

PrincessBride010103
05-31-2008, 12:29 AM
Lynn clean out your PMs!!!!!!!!!
(your private messages not your pre-menstrual syndrome):rotfl2:
wow its 1am and ive still got jokes

Gdad
05-31-2008, 12:30 AM
Nope as far as I know the first time you speak with them is your wedding day. :worried:

That is all bad- sorry. No wonder so many people are disapointed with the results.

DecemberBride
05-31-2008, 12:31 AM
I also think its important to speak with the photogs before because it gives the photographer an idea of the couple and their personality. I think that can help the photographer be creative in trying to capture the couple along with the scenery and events.

I agree my outside photography that I hired for the wedding practically insisted I meet him before hand, so he can get to know my DF and I. I appreciated it sooo much. Now, we're having an engagement shoot with him, so we can meet and take fun pictures without the pressure of it being the "big day"! I think it's so beneficial!

PrincessBride010103
05-31-2008, 12:33 AM
And I agree strongly with whoever said that Disney ought to let you speak with your photographer ahead of time. It's important that everyone's on the same page as far as photos and that you click (no pun intended) w/ your wedding photographer. Heck, most brides spend as much, if not more, time w/ their photog on the wedding day then they do w/ their husband.

yeah it sucks you are just randomly assigned a photog that day...

calismic
05-31-2008, 12:34 AM
Wow I didn't realize this thread would make it to 5 pages! I just wanted to clear something up quickly. Under the Fair Use Copyright Laws you are perfectly entitled to post the images you paid for. Disney may request that the images be removed, but without a court order the site owner is under no obligation to do so. If you are concerned that Disney may go after you for posting the images, simply site the photographer and Disney will have no legal grounds for seeking removal.

DisneyBrideToni
05-31-2008, 12:36 AM
I think that is where one of the BIG problems lie when it comes to disappointment. It might not be the photographers it may be because they don't know what you are looking for and so they just click away. Of course the price is bad but I wouldn't mind paying money for great looking pictures.

Lynn5700
05-31-2008, 12:36 AM
Lynn clean out your PMs!!!!!!!!!
(your private messages not your pre-menstrual syndrome):rotfl2:
wow its 1am and ive still got jokes

HAHA I do have to clear it out lol...I'm doing it now

WDWPluto- it's ok I don't think you are being argumentive..I get what you are saying..you sound like a great photographer!! It's nice to hear you take pride in your work,good for you :)

PrincessBride010103
05-31-2008, 12:37 AM
Wow I didn't realize this thread would make it to 5 pages! I just wanted to clear something up quickly. Under the Fair Use Copyright Laws you are perfectly entitled to post the images you paid for. Disney may request that the images be removed, but without a court order the site owner is under no obligation to do so. If you are concerned that Disney may go after you for posting the images, simply site the photographer and Disney will have no legal grounds for seeking removal.

LIKE O..M...G a straight answer...didnt think I'd ever get one! & I didnt think it would make 5 pages either..or turn into a debate about photographers rights, but alas! it has! but its entertaining at least
Thank you so much for posting this! :hug:

DecemberBride
05-31-2008, 12:37 AM
Wow I didn't realize this thread would make it to 5 pages! I just wanted to clear something up quickly. Under the Fair Use Copyright Laws you are perfectly entitled to post the images you paid for. Disney may request that the images be removed, but without a court order the site owner is under no obligation to do so. If you are concerned that Disney may go after you for posting the images, simply site the photographer and Disney will have no legal grounds for seeking removal.

Now, that's interesting... I'm in law school and I actually knew what that meant... :rotfl: Oh wait, I'm sorryyou didn't need law school for that to be clear. Thanks for the post... it's good to know! :hug:

DisneyBrideToni
05-31-2008, 12:37 AM
Lynn clean out your PMs!!!!!!!!!
(your private messages not your pre-menstrual syndrome):rotfl2:
wow its 1am and ive still got jokes

:rotfl: :rotfl2: :lmao:

Good stuff!!

theantibride
05-31-2008, 12:38 AM
I agree that you should be able to talk to them in adavnce and I think they are working on that! Cause when we asked about requesting someone they said nothing is guaranteed but once we're assigned our photog they would let us know who it was so we could talk to them. Granted we've gotten misinformation from this particular person before (don't know if they're new or what) but it sounds like they might be working at least a few kinks out.

DisneyBrideToni
05-31-2008, 12:38 AM
Now, that's interesting... I'm in law school and I actually knew what that meant... :rotfl: Oh wait, I'm sorryyou didn't need law school for that to be clear. Thanks for the post... it's good to know! :hug:

:lmao: I am a paralegal but I don't deal with copyright laws. I just sue people that get into car accidents.

DisneyBrideToni
05-31-2008, 12:41 AM
I agree that you should be able to talk to them in adavnce and I think they are working on that! Cause when we asked about requesting someone they said nothing is guaranteed but once we're assigned our photog they would let us know who it was so we could talk to them. Granted we've gotten misinformation from this particular person before (don't know if they're new or what) but it sounds like they might be working at least a few kinks out.

That would be great! I put in a request for a photographer and my planner said she will let his manager know but I didnt hear anything about speaking with them. That would be nice to do though!!

DecemberBride
05-31-2008, 12:41 AM
:lmao: I am a paralegal but I don't deal with copyright laws. I just sue people that get into car accidents.


I should forget law school, I should just fo what you do for probably the same amount of money... law school sux! Misery! Is car accidents more interesting than corporate litigation, because if so, let me sue already!

DisneyBrideToni
05-31-2008, 12:42 AM
I should forget law school, I should just fo what you do for probably the same amount of money... law school sux! Misery! Is car accidents more interesting than corporate litigation, because if so, let me sue already!

Oh yeah I think so!!! I thought corporate stuff was a little boring. I think the MOST interesting is employment cases. Sexual Harrasment, Age Discrimination stuff like that.

DecemberBride
05-31-2008, 12:44 AM
Oh yeah I think so!!! I thought corporate stuff was a little boring. I think the MOST interesting is employment cases. Sexual Harrasment, Age Discrimination stuff like that.

I grew up with corporate both my dad and brother are in that type of litigation and it just kinda flowed into that for me. I think after law school it'll be okay, but geez, law school is just awful!

DisneyBrideToni
05-31-2008, 12:46 AM
I grew up with corporate both my dad and brother are in that type of litigation and it just kinda flowed into that for me. I think after law school it'll be okay, but geez, law school is just awful!

Yeah I agree with you. Of course I didn't go to Law School but I took legal studies and I thought contracts and things like that were boring but I am sure working for a firm things would be much better.

DecemberBride
05-31-2008, 12:46 AM
Yeah I agree with you. Of course I didn't go to Law School but I took legal studies and I thought contracts and things like that were boring but I am sure working for a firm things would be much better.


God I hope so... :lmao:

PrincessBride010103
05-31-2008, 12:50 AM
enough legal mumbo jumbo...you guys are hurting my brain!
:lmao:

DecemberBride
05-31-2008, 12:50 AM
enough legal mumbo jumbo...you guys are hurting my brain!
:lmao:

My brain hurts too... :headache:

DisneyBrideToni
05-31-2008, 12:51 AM
enough legal mumbo jumbo...you guys are hurting my brain!
:lmao:

:rotfl2: Soweeyyy!!! Yeah I shouldn't be talking legal I not working right now. Its wedding time!!! :lmao:

DecemberBride
05-31-2008, 12:53 AM
:rotfl2: Soweeyyy!!! Yeah I shouldn't be talking legal I not working right now. Its wedding time!!! :lmao:

I'm sorry too, wedding stuff is so much more fun!:thumbsup2

Lynn5700
05-31-2008, 12:56 AM
HAHA I just watched that youtube link that guy posted...it was funny lol.

PrincessBride010103
05-31-2008, 12:58 AM
HAHA I just watched that youtube link that guy posted...it was funny lol.

I wanna watch it but erics sleeping next to me! he will whine if i wake him up...what is it??

Lynn5700
05-31-2008, 01:01 AM
I wanna watch it but erics sleeping next to me! he will whine if i wake him up...what is it??

HAHA just be like me and use you iPod headphones while your in bed with the computer and your husband is sleeping lol...

its a video of some dude being held by his ankles hanging out of a window apologizing lol..it was the guy who posted it his way of saying sorry.

Lynn5700
05-31-2008, 01:01 AM
I can't believe we are up to page 7 lol.

PrincessBride010103
05-31-2008, 01:04 AM
HAHA just be like me and use you iPod headphones while your in bed with the computer and your husband is sleeping lol...

its a video of some dude being held by his ankles hanging out of a window apologizing lol..it was the guy who posted it his way of saying sorry.

LOL @ the headphones, i was looking for them but its sooooo freaking dark other than the headphones i think we are in the same position lol

and that guy totally made fun of my thread then hijacked it to kingdom come...(notice the edited title) & brought his friends over to help so he should apologize!

haha jk

wdwpluto
05-31-2008, 01:04 AM
WDWPluto- it's ok I don't think you are being argumentive..I get what you are saying..you sound like a great photographer!! It's nice to hear you take pride in your work,good for you :)

Thanks :) All that being said, I post a handful of low res preview images (that are fine tune edited) to my blog and I have no problem w/ clients reposting them to their blogs, knot bios, or whatever as long as they provide a link back to my site. It's actually a good thing as it's marketing for me. And one of my packages includes files or they're available for purchase. So I'm all for brides getting what they want.

pyrxtc
05-31-2008, 09:21 AM
Well I am not sure when you were married but now a days almost every photographer includes a CD/DVD with images included in the package.

I am flying in one of the best photographers in the country and guess what? My CD is included and I have the rights to MY photos.

Why Disney wants you to pay 1K for a CD with more than likely crappy MK photos is beyond me. Will I pay it? Yes.... Why? Because as much as it sucks I want MK photos.

Well, you are "paying" for the high res CD for that $7,500 you are spending. But tell me, are you getting the pictures un-edited? There is a lot more to what the photographer does now than just take the pics. There is post editing and time that goes into all of it. I would give you a cd for that price too though since it saves me a lot of time working on your photos for you to not buy them from me. There would be no collages or special album page creations or anything unless you paid more for it.

pyrxtc
05-31-2008, 09:23 AM
There is no legal debate as to the ownership of digital images and/or film negatives- they belong to the photographer unless he or she releases them. Final use of these should be addressed up front in your written contract with the photographer. Likewise- the photographer cannot use your picture for any commercial purpose such advertising, portfolio material, etc. unless you sign a modeling agreement to that effect.

Actually, what most brides sign give the photographer full rights to all of the pics to do whatever they want wiht thme. They could sell them to be useed in whatever manner they choose without letting you know or getting your consent. I know that most all wedding contracts give the photographer full right to use the pics in any manner they see fit. It does in mine and it was never questioned.

pyrxtc
05-31-2008, 09:57 AM
well after finally getting through all the pages, I just have to say that I'm sorry the pictures weren't what you were expecting or should ahave expected. If you have rights, as long as you have your release then you can scan your images in and share them to your hearts content. If you didn't pay for the rights, then you have no right to scan them in any manner, even for personal use. It's a common misconception of photography law. That's why a lot of photographers will sell high school seniors a file to use on their myspace, so they can share it. They can also get pictures removed from myspace if they don't have the photographers release to use it. It is not the law (http://www.photolaw.net/faq.html) that you can scan it or print it so long as you are not making a profit from it.

Q: If I buy a photograph or painting from a photographer or an artist for display purposes, can I use the image for any other purpose?

A. No. Mere ownership of a photograph, a painting or any other copyrighted work does not convey any right to copy or to use the work other than for personal use. For instance, a painting can be hung in a home or office but, absent permission, it cannot be copied, reproduced or used for any other purposes.

The law provides that the transfer of ownership of any material object that is protected by copyright, does not of itself, convey any rights to the copyright. For example, the purchaser of a copyrighted photograph, painting or poster, intended for display purposes, does not acquire any right to copy, reproduce or use the work other than for its intended purpose. Even if one were to purchase an original portrait that was specially commissioned, the purchaser would only be able to frame and display the work. Unless the parties otherwise agree, the artist owns the copyright and the work cannot be copied or reproduced. Thus, without permission, the subject of the portrait cannot even make a holiday card from the painting. Similarly, no one can photocopy an entire book without violating the copyright ownerís exclusive rights in the work. In fact, radio stations and jukebox operators have to purchase licenses to broadcast or play music even if they own the records they are using.


8) "Oh, so copyright violation isn't a crime or anything?"
Actually, in the 90s in the USA commercial copyright violation involving more than 10 copies and value over $2500 was made a felony. So watch out.

Copyright is still violated whether you charged money or not, only damages are affected by that.

I want to make copies of my photos. Does my photographer really own the copyright of his/her pictures? Do I still have to pay the photographer if I make the copies myself at a copy shop?
Yes and yes. According to federal law, images produced by a professional photographer are copyrighted the moment they are created. Federal law prohibits copying or reproducing copyrighted material without permission from the owner of the copyright, i.e., the photographer. If you copy or scan your photos, the photographer should be paid just as if you were buying reprints. If you or your videographer transfer the proofs to videotape, the photographer should be paid just as if you were buying reprints. If you don't feel comfortable paying for these copies, find a photographer whose work is so good that you are glad to pay.

Skylarr29
05-31-2008, 11:33 AM
Well, you are "paying" for the high res CD for that $7,500 you are spending. But tell me, are you getting the pictures un-edited? There is a lot more to what the photographer does now than just take the pics. There is post editing and time that goes into all of it. I would give you a cd for that price too though since it saves me a lot of time working on your photos for you to not buy them from me. There would be no collages or special album page creations or anything unless you paid more for it.

My photos WILL be edited.

My package includes:
-8 hours of photography
-4x6 bordered prints of every edited image presented in archival print boxes
-Renaissance or Kambara 10x13 28-30 page matted album (up to 80 images)
-2 8x8 Kambara matted albums (20 pages, 30 images)
-Bridal and engagement session w/ 4x6 prints of all edited images (I swapped my bridal portraits for additional hours of wedding coverage as I won't get a chance to have them before the wedding)
-6 5x7 prints
-4 8x10 prints
-1 16x20 mounted print
-1 guest signature book
-High res DVD of all edited images w/ copyright release

Package total $6,500 + $500 for airfare

We are going to use the 2 8x8 albums as parent albums and we are swapping the 4x6 prints for rehearsal and rehearsal dinner coverage.

ETA: We also have two photographers so while the main one is with the bride then the assistant will be with the groom while getting ready and the main will be taking our photos after the ceremony while the second will be at the cocktail hour and so forth.

We of course are paying for their room as well.

pyrxtc
05-31-2008, 12:08 PM
My photos WILL be edited.

My package includes:
-8 hours of photography
-4x6 bordered prints of every edited image presented in archival print boxes
-Renaissance or Kambara 10x13 28-30 page matted album (up to 80 images)
-2 8x8 Kambara matted albums (20 pages, 30 images)
-Bridal and engagement session w/ 4x6 prints of all edited images (I swapped my bridal portraits for additional hours of wedding coverage as I won't get a chance to have them before the wedding)
-6 5x7 prints
-4 8x10 prints
-1 16x20 mounted print
-1 guest signature book
-High res DVD of all edited images w/ copyright release

Package total $6,500 + $500 for airfare

We are going to use the 2 8x8 albums as parent albums and we are swapping the 4x6 prints for rehearsal and rehearsal dinner coverage.

ETA: We also have two photographers so while the main one is with the bride then the assistant will be with the groom while getting ready and the main will be taking our photos after the ceremony while the second will be at the cocktail hour and so forth.

We of course are paying for their room as well.

Now thats something i would go for! I gotta start advertising for destination weddings!

alissa2008
05-31-2008, 07:35 PM
No, they're not YOUR pictures. They belong to the photographer...the artist...who created them. You are buying copies of his/her creation.

point taken.

Every artist owns the rights to his work unless he/she agrees to release that right in writing or by agreement. Absent that, anyone copying that work is in violation of the copyright. Its up to the artist who owns the copyright to decide if its worth their time to pursue action against the violator.

Actually, it's not up to the photographer, it's up to Disney.

cmwade77
06-02-2008, 09:45 PM
For our Wedding, our photographer gave us all the permission we needed and she only charged about $300! It was a steal and we got all of pictures on two CDs, she spent about 6 hours as well. When we got the photoPass CD, it of course came with all of the permissions we needed. We also make sure we take a picture with our own camera with each PhotoPass picture, so we can do what we want with them.

DisneySuiteFreak
06-03-2008, 07:01 AM
Actually, it's not up to the photographer, it's up to Disney.
Disney owns the copyright if the work was done as a work for hire. Most likely this is the case if the photographer is a Disney Cast Member. Work for hire is whole other arena of copyright law...
As an artist in another realm, I wish people still got this upset over the copyright infringement that goes on daily in illegal downloading of music and movies...The photographers are simply trying to protect their work so that what has happened to millions of musicians and singers via the decimation of the entire music industry as a whole doesn't happen to their industry. Can't say that I blame them....Unless you're the one investing hundreds of hours into getting the work done so it is a work you can be proud of, most don't realize just how much work goes into making a CD of music or of worthy photos. Most think because they can burn a CD for so cheap, that's all that goes into it. :( One day there may not be professional musicians making good music any more because they can't afford to do it and make a living at it. And the same applies to photographers, movie production companies, and others I'm sure.... :(
When I got married in '90 I paid $1k for the photographers to show up and do the work, and another $1500 for any pictures I wanted. The proofs were given to me. I didn't get any negatives or reprint rights. If I wanted copies, I had to go back to the original photographer and pay him for the copies. That's the way it was done back in the day. (It wasn't that long ago...;) ) They were good, and worth it.

hope1826
06-03-2008, 09:21 AM
Photography board visitors,

I appreciate what everyone is saying about copyright laws and such, but what it boils down to is that Amanda, myself and many other disbrides hired/hire non-Disney photographers and we got/expect much more for a lot less money than Disney charges.

Some of our photography packages with our non-Disney photographers were half the price of the similar Disney photography package AND include a High -Res CD of the images with various levels of editing, in addition to various sizes of prints (fully edited) and various albums, AND full rights to our images.

For example, my non Disney Photographer charged $1500 (including the high -res cd with full rights assigned to me). The most similar Disney package (same hours shooting, including the high-res cd with rights) would have cost me $3800.

BOTH Photographers would have spent the same exact time shooting our wedding. And based on what I've seen of Disney Photography, it appears that the Non-Disney Photographers spend MUCH more time actually editing.

I think the source of the frustration and confusion behind Amanda's initial question relates back to just that... Why does she have rights to her non-Disney photographer's photos for a fraction of Disney's cost???

Maybe we have been spoiled by our non-Disney photographers. :confused3 I think many disbrides share that frustration.

Cosi Bella
06-03-2008, 09:22 AM
It seems like there are a few people who are unhappy with Disney's photography services as of late. :( I wonder if all those brides who had an unfavorable experience, for what ever reason it was, would write a letter to Disney, if that would make a difference?? :confused3 Especially about not being able to talk with your photographer before your big day. I mean... they have to know who your photographer is at least a few days before your wedding right?? So why not be able to speak with them a few days before, and talk about everything and anything you want. It seems like this would help out a lot because then the photographer would have an idea; a feel of what you hope to get on your wedding day. And those who had a bad outcome, as in crappy quality of photos. I mean, I just can't imagine Disney hearing bad things and not doing something about it...

If enough people speak up and voice their opinions/concerns, I think this could be a really good thing!! Disney is def one of those companies that will listen to people and make changes for the better if enough people complain!! :thumbsup2

I think this would help out everyone, bc then we'd prob not feel quite so bad for paying 1k for our MK sessions and what not... well, maybe that's not true, but at least we'd be paying for something we really like and can be really happy about!! right :rotfl:

alissa2008
06-03-2008, 09:32 AM
If enough people speak up and voice their opinions/concerns, I think this could be a really good thing!! Disney is def one of those companies that will listen to people and make changes for the better if enough people complain!! :thumbsup2

:thumbsup2 This is a great point! If Disney is good for one thing, its good customer service.... although, I wouldn't try to tell lurky that. :worried:

wendy46001
06-03-2008, 09:50 AM
Wow this topic took off

Just want to add; sometimes it is possible to speak to your photographer. We had our planner set up a meeting about two months before our wedding to discuss what we wanted and see what the photographer normally does….Also our planner told us if it wasn’t what we were looking for we could pick someone else…while this is not the norm it is something they do if pressed….

hope1826
06-03-2008, 09:51 AM
When I got married in '90 I paid $1k for the photographers to show up and do the work, and another $1500 for any pictures I wanted. The proofs were given to me. I didn't get any negatives or reprint rights. If I wanted copies, I had to go back to the original photographer and pay him for the copies. That's the way it was done back in the day. (It wasn't that long ago...;) ) They were good, and worth it.

That's the point...

For $1500, my non-Disney photographer showed up and worked at my Disney wedding for 6 hours and I received (actually I will receive)...

- Proof Book with (300) images
- (6) color, b& white and/or color enhanced 8x12's prints (fully edited)
- (1) color and/or b&w 5x7 prints (fully edited)
- A private website of your final images (1492 images)
- High-res CD with full rights assigned to me
- 60 image artistically edited slideshow with music (my choice of images)


For $2800, I could have hired Disney Photography Services for 6 hours and recieved ...

- Proof Book with your images
- 4” x 6” keepsake prints from your celebration
- A private website of your final images
- Digital Montage (50) Print Album

For an ADDITIONAL $1000, I could add a high-res CD with full rights assigned.


This is the issue that some disbrides are frustrated with. So please understand, we aren't complaining because we don't want to spend money and pay people what they are worth. We are baffled as to why there is such a HUGE discrepancy in prices!

hope1826
06-03-2008, 10:02 AM
It seems like there are a few people who are unhappy with Disney's photography services as of late. :( I wonder if all those brides who had an unfavorable experience, for what ever reason it was, would write a letter to Disney, if that would make a difference?? :confused3 Especially about not being able to talk with your photographer before your big day. I mean... they have to know who your photographer is at least a few days before your wedding right?? So why not be able to speak with them a few days before, and talk about everything and anything you want. It seems like this would help out a lot because then the photographer would have an idea; a feel of what you hope to get on your wedding day. And those who had a bad outcome, as in crappy quality of photos. I mean, I just can't imagine Disney hearing bad things and not doing something about it...

If enough people speak up and voice their opinions/concerns, I think this could be a really good thing!! Disney is def one of those companies that will listen to people and make changes for the better if enough people complain!! :thumbsup2

I think this would help out everyone, bc then we'd prob not feel quite so bad for paying 1k for our MK sessions and what not... well, maybe that's not true, but at least we'd be paying for something we really like and can be really happy about!! right :rotfl:

I think that is a great idea.

wendy46001
06-03-2008, 10:04 AM
This is the issue that some disbrides are frustrated with. So please understand, we aren't complaining because we don't want to spend money and pay people what they are worth. We are baffled as to why there is such a HUGE discrepancy in prices!

The price is comparable to high-end photography. So the package price isn’t crazy….unfortunately for that price the high-end photographer should be include…and I think that is the issue….High end prices without high-end results

feline figaro
06-03-2008, 10:04 AM
Originally Posted by Cosi Bella
If enough people speak up and voice their opinions/concerns, I think this could be a really good thing!! Disney is def one of those companies that will listen to people and make changes for the better if enough people complain!!

I totally agree with this point too :thumbsup2

The idea of working with a photographer who has no clue about what shots you & your df are wanting is a little worrying. Talking beforehand surely not only puts couples minds at rest but it also helps the photographer to deliver great work, previous contact would help them to envision the ideas their clients have. I know in the many so far chats i ve had with Randy both sides have gotten to know each other fairly well. I ve told him so many times what shots i love etc. Im not even slightly worried how our photos with Randy will turn out as i ve got every faith in him. We know that Randy will do an amazing job just like he does for everyone else:woohoo:

The whole MK Shoot & cd package is pretty pricey when added together, granted we ALL pay the fees but not everyone is truely happy with the outcome which is nt exceptable. Disney pride themselves in working with you up till your wedding day to make sure everything goes perfectly,its just a shame they let themselves down in this one area

PrincessBride010103
06-03-2008, 11:03 AM
Photography board visitors,

I appreciate what everyone is saying about copyright laws and such, but what it boils down to is that Amanda, myself and many other disbrides hired/hire non-Disney photographers and we got/expect much more for a lot less money than Disney charges.

Some of our photography packages with our non-Disney photographers were half the price of the similar Disney photography package AND include a High -Res CD of the images with various levels of editing, in addition to various sizes of prints (fully edited) and various albums, AND full rights to our images.

For example, my non Disney Photographer charged $1500 (including the high -res cd with full rights assigned to me). The most similar Disney package (same hours shooting, including the high-res cd with rights) would have cost me $3800.

BOTH Photographers would have spent the same exact time shooting our wedding. And based on what I've seen of Disney Photography, it appears that the Non-Disney Photographers spend MUCH more time actually editing.

I think the source of the frustration and confusion behind Amanda's initial question relates back to just that... Why does she have rights to her non-Disney photographer's photos for a fraction of Disney's cost???

Maybe we have been spoiled by our non-Disney photographers. :confused3 I think many disbrides share that frustration.


Thanks for trying to clear that up, Nikki! :thumbsup2

hope1826
06-03-2008, 11:15 AM
Thanks for trying to clear that up, Nikki! :thumbsup2


No problem. I hope it helps though.:confused3

I totally understand your frustration. I really really love your MK pictures, but I ultimately decided not to do the MK shoot, because financially it just was not feasible. It also kills me to think that if we were allowed to use Misty or Randy I probably would have been able to afford it and I would have no doubt in my mind that either of their photographs would have come out absolutely perfect! I LOVE both of them!:worship: :worship:

alissa2008
06-03-2008, 11:40 AM
….High end prices without high-end results

This is EXACTLY the point. ::yes:: I'm sure there are plenty of people that would have no problem paying Disney prices for a bang-up job. Unfortunately, they pay the high prices and get disappointed and thats when the flaming starts. You can go round and round about why Disney photography is too expensive, but the real proof is in the pudding....

Cosi Bella
06-03-2008, 12:32 PM
:thumbsup2 This is a great point! If Disney is good for one thing, its good customer service.... although, I wouldn't try to tell lurky that. :worried:

I think that is a great idea.

I totally agree with this point too :thumbsup2


Yay, i had a good idea!! :cool1: lol

Now its just getting everyone to write a letter and send it off... that's always the down fall of these great plans!!

hope1826
06-03-2008, 12:35 PM
You can go round and round about why Disney photography is too expensive, but the real proof is in the pudding....

But even if DPS was just as AMAZING and consistent as The Roots, Randy and Misty and I had the choice of paying one of those Non-Disney Photographers $1500 or paying Disney $3800 to get the same exact hours and prints and editing and quality, hands down I would still pick the Non-Disney photographer. Disney's prices are more than double and on it's way to triple the cost in some cases!!!

Raspberry Bubbles
06-03-2008, 02:08 PM
I've read all of these posts (and I was a Corporate Insolvency Lawyer for 8 years ~ and it's NOT boring, thank you very much! :rotfl2: ) and for me it comes down to the not knowing what the end result with Disney Photography would be.

We were fully prepared to pay the price for DPS and Video, but it's the uncertainty ~ there are no full portfolios to view, no samples of videos (I was promised one for a very long time) and we just panicked. I saw brides who were unhappy with their work, brides who were elated with their work, and the MK Shoots seemed to be hit and miss with whether you got what you hoped for after the wedding ~ after there was nothing you could do about it to save the precious memories of your special time.

We have the MK shoot and a particular photographer requested, and I'm still petrified that we won't get that photographer. I'm paying $1,300 (we are also doing Epcot) and probably the $1000 on top for the CD to have our once-in-a-lifetime pictures done in front of Cinderella's Castle and we'll be on tenderhooks waiting to see if they look professional or if they look as though I could have shot them using a tripod. No offence meant to anyone on here who photographs for DPS. I just have no idea what to expect. Will I like the photographer? Will I feel comfortable around them, do I like their style? There are so many questions and nowhere that can give answers.

I'm keeping the MK Shoot because it's the fairytale part of our wedding memories, the coveted location. However, we have no control over any aspect of it, it seems. It feels very "cloak and dagger" ~ we can't use our own photographers, yet we can't see portfolios and select one of theirs either.

Just my tuppence worth ~ I've paid, but I'm petrified, which is a shame. As a Disney Bride I would pay so much more if the process was more open and more amenable; more professional, I guess.

DecemberBride
06-03-2008, 02:19 PM
[QUOTE=Raspberry Bubbles;25478083]I've read all of these posts (and I was a Corporate Insolvency Lawyer for 8 years ~ and it's NOT boring, thank you very much! :rotfl2: )

Maybe I should go into that law then... :rotfl:

Raspberry Bubbles
06-03-2008, 02:27 PM
[QUOTE=Raspberry Bubbles;25478083]I've read all of these posts (and I was a Corporate Insolvency Lawyer for 8 years ~ and it's NOT boring, thank you very much! :rotfl2: )

Maybe I should go into that law then... :rotfl:

Sure~Corporate Law to Corporate insolvency, why not? :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: Let me know how that goes for you :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

thomas998
06-03-2008, 03:37 PM
You get:
-The shoot
-All your proofs printed in 4x6
-An album with 12 pictures (5x7)

I think I would just find someone with a drum scanner and have them make high res copies of the proofs.

thomas998
06-03-2008, 03:51 PM
That's the point...
...We are baffled as to why there is such a HUGE discrepancy in prices!

Be baffled no more... You can buy a bottle of water from a walmart for less than $1 or you can buy it from Disney for $3... the reason they charge 3 times the price? Because they can.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people that are willing to pay way over the average price and as long as there are enough of them Disney will continue to charge as much as they can. Your best way of avoiding the damage to your wallet is to buy stock in Disney so you'll be getting money from the over charges instead of losing it.

hope1826
06-03-2008, 03:54 PM
Be baffled no more... You can buy a bottle of water from a walmart for less than $1 or you can buy it from Disney for $3... the reason they charge 3 times the price? Because they can.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people that are willing to pay way over the average price and as long as there are enough of them Disney will continue to charge as much as they can. Your best way of avoiding the damage to your wallet is to buy stock in Disney so you'll be getting money from the over charges instead of losing it.


:rotfl2: Thank you Thomas! I actually bought my DH Disney stock as his wedding present. I think you are absolutely right.

DecemberBride
06-03-2008, 04:00 PM
[QUOTE=DecemberBride;25478289]

Sure~Corporate Law to Corporate insolvency, why not? :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: Let me know how that goes for you :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Why would that be funny? :lmao:

dawrobin
06-03-2008, 04:30 PM
Hi all,

I did not read every posting here so if this is a dup my apologies.

I just looked at my BEO and the CD we are purchasing for the rights to the pics with DPS says high res right there.

HTH

DisneySuiteFreak
06-04-2008, 01:22 AM
Be baffled no more... You can buy a bottle of water from a walmart for less than $1 or you can buy it from Disney for $3... the reason they charge 3 times the price? Because they can.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people that are willing to pay way over the average price and as long as there are enough of them Disney will continue to charge as much as they can.

::yes:: That's it exactly. I feel for all you brides, I really do. It sure seems like a ripoff, but that's the price you pay for having a MK photo shoot, I guess. They know if you don't buy it, someone else will and that's all that matters.:(

Gdad
06-04-2008, 06:06 AM
Be baffled no more... You can buy a bottle of water from a walmart for less than $1 or you can buy it from Disney for $3... the reason they charge 3 times the price? Because they can.

Right. ::yes::

Your best way of avoiding the damage to your wallet is to buy stock in Disney so you'll be getting money from the over charges instead of losing it.

Maybe yours is doing better than mine. :rolleyes1

http://finance.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:DIS

hope1826
06-04-2008, 06:17 AM
::yes:: That's it exactly. I feel for all you brides, I really do. It sure seems like a ripoff, but that's the price you pay for having a MK photo shoot, I guess. They know if you don't buy it, someone else will and that's all that matters.:(

I can understand hiking up the prices to be pictures in MK. But the prices I listed were for regular wedding photography even just at the resorts. But I definitely agree with you!

wdwpluto
06-05-2008, 08:09 PM
That's the point...

For $1500, my non-Disney photographer showed up and worked at my Disney wedding for 6 hours and I received (actually I will receive)...

- Proof Book with (300) images
- (6) color, b& white and/or color enhanced 8x12's prints (fully edited)
- (1) color and/or b&w 5x7 prints (fully edited)
- A private website of your final images (1492 images)
- High-res CD with full rights assigned to me
- 60 image artistically edited slideshow with music (my choice of images)


For $2800, I could have hired Disney Photography Services for 6 hours and recieved ...

- Proof Book with your images
- 4” x 6” keepsake prints from your celebration
- A private website of your final images
- Digital Montage (50) Print Album

For an ADDITIONAL $1000, I could add a high-res CD with full rights assigned.


This is the issue that some disbrides are frustrated with. So please understand, we aren't complaining because we don't want to spend money and pay people what they are worth. We are baffled as to why there is such a HUGE discrepancy in prices!

I agree whole heartedly. And with the non-Disney photographer, you can choose a photographer whose style you like and interact w/ them prior to the wedding.

The main issue I see here is the MK photo sessions where you're stuck with Disney Photogs. :(

(Sorry if this is late or has been said, but I've been shooting in Belize - tropical storm and all - since Sunday and just skimmed the most recent posts)

If you have a complaint w/ DPS - write them a letter. An actual, physical letter (email is easy to ignore and physical letters are taken more seriously imho). And CC your EM. I did when I was displeased w/ our MK shoot and they offered a free re-shoot or a 50% refund. We lived out of state at the time, so we took the refund. Would I rather have had great MK photos instead? You betcha.