Utterly Disgusting!!!!

[breezy1077]

I don't know if y'all are aware of what's going on over at the CB, but it's making my blood boil and is making me physically ill!

Here is a link if y'all want to go check it out http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1839629

I can't believe living in the times that we do that there are people who advocate complete seperation of special needs kids, both in the classrooms and in outside activities.

I take it as a personal insult that these posters so openly advocate such discrimination. :furious:

[mgilmer]

There has always been and probably always be people who will advocate and practice discrimination against the disabled. You usually cannot change them. Just ignore them and concentrate your efforts on the broad swath of people in the middle so that the small segment of bigots become more and more isolated over time. Don't waste your energy with hate or anger -- leave it to them.

[breezy1077]

Thanks, I can't even go back to that thread anymore. Good advice about the hate and anger thing - you're right, I'll leave it to them - they can have it.

[mgilmer]

OK, went over to the Community Board and read a part of the thread and I must admit it was not as bad as I expected.
First, I was heartened to see that (in the three pages I read) no one defended what the teacher did. In the past, I would expect at least one moron to popup and say what the teacher did was ok, so at least that is something.

Second, I think most of those who spoke of exclusion from mainstreaming were speaking out of ignorance, not animus, or were limiting their remarks to those special kids who are violent. In the past you would have had some morons pop up and say the "retards" should just stay home. I did not see any of that. That is also progress.

Just to preference my creds, I spent over thirty years as a counselor to kids who were the victims of physical and sexual violence, and while I am a strong advocate of mainstreaming, I draw the line at violence. If a special kid is violent to his classmates (and I am not talking about "bothering" them or normal kid behavior, but instead injurious behavior), then that child should not be mainstreamed for the safety of all until his behavior can be modified to remove the threat.

[bookwormde]

The number of supportive people encourages me.

There will always be a few “uneducated” people who do not understand our children and the law and the fact that when they receive the proper level of accommodations and supports they manage very well in the classroom.

I would not fire the teacher just make her take a bout 2000 hours of training on bullying (which is what she did), spectrum children and IDEA. Then she might be able to apply a little common sense.

bookwormde

[mechurchlady]

It is the job of the principal and teacher to decide if a kid belongs in a school not the students. The teacher allowed small kids to make a choice that not even adults often are trained to make. I did not read the remarks and I do not want to be banned from here. Even if that kid was the Bad Seed and a total social deviant still he would have a right to be treated humanely and privately instead of being embarassed and austercized.

We need to pray for that teacher that they realize they are horrible and dispicable.

Staying away from this as i am very upset.

[Talking Hands]

The teacher was totally unprofessional in her actions and should be seeking other employment in a different field. At the very least she should be required to take courses in sensitivity when dealing with children who may have behavior problems. Wouldn't last long here in our school system.

[breezy1077]

The response of a lot of posters over there is the very reason I halted all interaction my son has with parent volunteers in the classroom.


BTW, here's the boy who this happened to and his mother. Hardly the tyrant they're making him out to be...

http://www.breitbart.tv/html/103693.html

[mgilmer]

I watched the video and if the teacher really thinks she did nothing wrong, she needs to be removed from the classroom permanently. Everyone makes mistakes in their life but to make one this blatant and not even recognize it as a mistake makes me sure this person is not fit to teach in any school. I am no fan of lawyers (butted heads with too many criminal defense lawyers in my career who were representing perps, I guess), but this woman needs to find one and teach this school a lesson. Its very sad and disturbing that something like this can happen today, in 2008, in the United States.

[Eeyores Butterfly]

If you read the thread, I'm sure you can tell how I feel about this situation. :) I actually shared the video with my Management of Instruction (general ed elementary) class yesterday. We are getting ready to teach summer school next week and today was our discussion on children with special needs. I told some of my friends today about the response of some of the posters and they were appalled.

[SueM in MN]

I have to agree with mgilmer and bookwormde that there were more supportive people than I expected to find on that thread. I didn't read the whole thread, just the first 6 pages and the last few.
It is positive that most of the people did think the teacher was wrong.
I can see that she was probably at the end of her rope, but what she did about her frustration was so wrong on so many levels, that I can't believe an adult would do that!
She not only harmed that child (how can he go back to that school or even his neighborhood where he will run into the same children who voted him out?).
She harmed the other children too, by providing them with a model of how to abuse/bully other children. And, I wonder if any of the other kids will be worried about whether they might end up doing something that would cause them to get the same treatment?
Obviously, she 'stacked the deck' by telling the children to tell what they didn't like about him.
Obviously, she expected the other children to vote him out, but I wonder what she would have done if the vote was tied or if they voted to keep him in class?
And, how would she feel if the children got to put her in the middle of the circle, tell what they didn't like about her and then vote whether or not she should be their teacher?

I know that some people are apprehensive about inclusion classes.This is an
article about how things can work, with appropriate supports. (http://www.blink-twice.com/downloads/news_nyt_article.pdf) Even though the child in this article was non-verbal and was in a wheelchair, some of the other parents were afraid that their children would be 'short-changed' by the needs of Thomas.

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Here is the response I posted to provide some perspective on the controversy on that thread:

I'm going to try to bring in some perspective, I've already said my piece on how I feel, now let's see what the law says and what Best Practice says.

1.) First and foremost, what this teacher did was illegal. First of all, her actions could be seen as violating FERPA, the educational equivalent of HIPPA(sp?). She essentially discussed the child's education with the other kids and then put them in the position of decision maker. A child cannot legally be removed from a classroom and placed in a special ed classroom without an IEP. Every child is entitled to due process. It is the law and it is there to protect students.

2.) Most of the current rights enjoyed by all are the direct result of lawsuits. Where would we be without Brown vs. the Board of Education? Research special ed law, it wasn't long ago these children were not allowed in schools. Having them in schools benefits everybody. By teaching them what they need you are increasing their chances of becoming a productive member of society. It's an investment for the future. The money spent now on their education is more than made up for the money saved when they can hold a job and live independently instead of being relegated to an institution or group home.

3.) The law requires Least Restrictive Environment. Generally this means as much inclusion as possible. However, there are cases when the general classroom is more restrictive than a resource room. In that case, the resource room is the Least Restrictive Environment.

4.) If you want better resources for the kids in the middle, advocate for Response to Intervention. Most schools operate on the discrepancy model, which means that they have to wait for a kid's achievement to fall two standard deviations behind their aptitude before services can be offered. This means a child with an IQ of 60 who performs at that level does not technically qualify for services. Under RTI, the minute a problem is noticed, the teacher implements different interventions to remediate it as much as possible. This means that all students are benefitting from the special ed services available, not just the most severe. While it is a huge money and time investment in the beginning, it leads to less disruptions because kids are identified early and it also results in fewer services needed on the secondary level. In Missouri, RTI will be required by all schools 2010.

5.) I agree, it sucks that gifted is getting the shaft. I am earning my Master's in Special and Elementary. In two years I will be pursuing my certification in gifted. In Missouri, the funding for gifted went from 25 million to literally zero in one year. Don't blame special ed, blame NCLB. All of the money and funs is tied up in testing. The current law is unrealistic in the expectations set for schools (for instance, only the bottom 1% of special ed kids in a school are allowed to take a different examination. The rest must perform on grade level regardless of diagnosis or ability. If they do not, the school is considered failing. The same for children for whom english is a second language. It takes 5-7 years for a child who speaks English as a second language to become academically proficient, and yet they are expected to be tested in english and pass or the school could lose its funding.) I agree that gifted students should be challenged, I am technically a high school drop out. I entered the Program for the Exceptionally Gifted at Mary Baldwin College when I was 15 after having completed the 9th grade. Although I have a B.A. and will soon have my Master's I do not have a HS Diploma or GED. I chose this route because I was unchallenged and felt devalued at my school. In the end, the schoosl are being motivated strictly by NCLB. If the child has the ability to pass the test, they are no longer a priority. Want to change it? Advocate for modifications to the law. It is up for reauthorization this year or next.

6.) Many of these issues can be addressed by Best Practice, which is the model my university uses in their teacher preparation program. Whenever possible, teachers need to differentiate based on a variety of factors: multiple intelligences, interest, ability levels, etc. Using components of Best Practice such as cooperative learning models results in the maximum education for all children. Another example of best practice is curriculum compacting. Students take a pretest and to show what they already know. They are not required to learn information they already know, and instead are given the opportunity to study soem aspect of the curriculum that interests them more indepth. Again, this benefits all, not just gifted students since all kids have subjects they are naturally better at. Is it time consuming? Yes. BUT: it does result in fewer discipline problems, more time on task and engaged time, and it maximizes the learning of all students. It is not possible to differentiate or compact every lesson, but it is very beneficial.

I hope this put at least some perspective on the issue and how schools and educators can address the needs of all children within the classroom within the parameters of current legislation. The bottom line is, NCLB needs to change. Perhaps when some good old fashioned common sense is interjected into the law and the federal government provides the finanical support necessary to meet its mandates, education in this country can continue to improve.

[Eeyores Butterfly]

On another board I frequent, a poster made the assertion that all children with special needs should be on meds and if they refuse should not receive services. He also stated that special kids need special schools. Apparently he had some special needs (dyslexia and mental illness) and had a bad school experience.

When I and another poster pointed out that for many of the needs we see in special ed there is no medication and when there is the side effects can be very nasty, I was accused of being anti medication and dentrimental to my students. sigh.

[SueM in MN]

On another board I frequent, a poster made the assertion that all children with special needs should be on meds and if they refuse should not receive services. He also stated that special kids need special schools. Apparently he had some special needs (dyslexia and mental illness) and had a bad school experience.

When I and another poster pointed out that for many of the needs we see in special ed there is no medication and when there is the side effects can be very nasty, I was accused of being anti medication and dentrimental to my students. sigh.
Interesting viewpoint that person had>

If the children/parents refuse medication, where would they go if they are not allowed in school?
I'm sure some people would like it better if all people with disabilities would just disappear somewhere into special schools. But, what happens when they are done with school and have no experience dealing with the outside world?

As far as medication and behaviors, you are correct that there is no medication to deal with some of the behaviors.
And, there are side effects (sometimes even worse than nasty, but potentially harmful to the person taking the medication).
And, in some cases, the amount of medication needed to control the behavior would make the person so snowed that they are non-functional.
And, the person would not get any experience in dealing with whatever their behavior is.

[ireland_nicole]

I feel sick, just sick. I am at a loss for words. Not to mention, probably irrationally afraid to send my 5 y/o to school tomorrow...oh yeah, he's one of "those kids"- stuff like this makes me wonder what people are thinking about my kiddoes and just not sharing with me.

I would like to ask, is it possible to refrain from using more derrogatory language about this 5 y/o? He's a little boy, not a "bad seed" he's had enough abuse heaped on his head already.

[Eeyores Butterfly]

It never ceases to amaze me how people think/talk about children with special needs (or adults for that matter). Then I realize that because of my background I have much more knowledge/experience with people with special needs than they do. I see it as my duty to educate them about the realities of the laws, the schools, and the children so that they can make a more informed decisions about their opinions of children with special needs, especially when children with special needs being included in the regular classroom. (Hence the veritable novel several posts up.)

[jodifla]

Ugh.....now I have to leave that thread. Poster actually suggested "breaking a child's hand" if they threw a crayon in the classroom.

I'm surprised that people consider throwing crayons, lying on the floor kicking a table VIOLENT. A quarter of the kids in my son's K class would be thrown out of school under those definitions.

[mgilmer]

I feel sick, just sick. I am at a loss for words. Not to mention, probably irrationally afraid to send my 5 y/o to school tomorrow...oh yeah, he's one of "those kids"- stuff like this makes me wonder what people are thinking about my kiddoes and just not sharing with me.

I would like to ask, is it possible to refrain from using more derrogatory language about this 5 y/o? He's a little boy, not a "bad seed" he's had enough abuse heaped on his head already.

I have not seen that on this thread. Did you mean to post this on the CB thread?

[breezy1077]

I have not seen that on this thread. Did you mean to post this on the CB thread?


I don't want to speak for her, but I think she means that's what they're saying over there.

I keep going back to read, and I have to leave the thread again b4 I say something I'll regret. Disgusting!

Like I said over there, the views of certain posters are so intolerable I think because they are my worst fears about the predjudice my son has to face in his life. It also shocks me. I just keep telling myself how truly grateful I am that DS has such a great school.

It highlights how truly wonderful his IEP team is right now. God bless 'em!!! :goodvibes

[breezy1077]

Ugh.....now I have to leave that thread. Poster actually suggested "breaking a child's hand" if they threw a crayon in the classroom.

I'm surprised that people consider throwing crayons, lying on the floor kicking a table VIOLENT. A quarter of the kids in my son's K class would be thrown out of school under those definitions.

::yes:: just leave the thread. It's disgusting.

[jodifla]

::yes:: just leave the thread. It's disgusting.

What's odd is that they run to punishment and violence themselves (even though the hand breaker said she was 'kidding' instead of behavoir modification, which is called for in the instance of crayon throwing and kicking a table (have these folks ever BEEN in a kindergarten classroom>).

They have NO appreciation of how a disability affects a child's behavior...they have that knee-jerk "he's a bad kid...and they're bad parents" reaction.

[Selket]

Wow - that is just amazing (the story itself). Horrifying is the word for it I think.

As for the thread on the CB - I have a lot of opinions about that but all I can say is that I don't read the community board because of stuff like that. These boards are huge and attract their share of nutcases who just enjoy being opinionated and stirring up trouble .....

[breezy1077]

What's odd is that they run to punishment and violence themselves (even though the hand breaker said she was 'kidding' instead of behavoir modification, which is called for in the instance of crayon throwing and kicking a table (have these folks ever BEEN in a kindergarten classroom>).

They have NO appreciation of how a disability affects a child's behavior...they have that knee-jerk "he's a bad kid...and they're bad parents" reaction.


::yes:: Like I said over there...I'm glad God sent my child to me and not one of them. That poem keeps going through my head, what's the name of it? Was it The Special Mother? I can't remember.

[breezy1077]

Yes, it's The Special Mother by Erma Bombeck. Here's a quote that I find appropriate right now regarding both what happened to that little boy and for those upset by certain posts:

"I will permit her to see clearly the things I see...ignorance, cruelty, prejudice....and allow her to rise above them. She will never be alone. I will be at her side every minute of every day of her life, because she is doing My work as surely as if she is here by My side".

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I haven't been back today, but I was sad that last night nobody responded to my post. That thing too me forever to write! My bf looked at it and said it was probably because I used objective facts and they knew they couldn't argue with it. (It could also be that it was rather long) :)

[mgilmer]

As for the thread on the CB - I have a lot of opinions about that but all I can say is that I don't read the community board because of stuff like that. These boards are huge and attract their share of nutcases who just enjoy being opinionated and stirring up trouble .....

Unfortunate but true. I stay out of there almost all of the time.

[mgilmer]

I haven't been back today, but I was sad that last night nobody responded to my post. That thing too me forever to write! My bf looked at it and said it was probably because I used objective facts and they knew they couldn't argue with it. (It could also be that it was rather long) :)

I thought your post was great, but I am afraid it was way over the head of most of the posters on the CB thread.

[bookwormde]

Since the percentage of uneducated people on the thread seemed to have increased (or at least their number of post) I thought I would give it another try to provide some education to them so I posted again.

I like beating my head against the wall Ha ha

bookwormde

[breezy1077]

Since the percentage of uneducated people on the thread seemed to have increased (or at least their number of post) I thought I would give it another try to provide some education to them so I posted again.

I like beating my head against the wall Ha ha

bookwormde


I loved your post.

[scottsod]

this was on glen beck tv show saw it online
a mother from canada who is a teacher and a parent of an autistic child started a petition to have the teacher fired go here
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/

the link is on the main page over 5000 sigs so far

[mechurchlady]

Even if that kid was the Bad Seed and a total social deviant still he would have a right to be treated humanely and privately instead of being embarassed and austercized.

I was the one who mentioned the novel. It was as an example of the worst child possible, disabled or not. The point I was making was that even if the kid was truly disruptive and other stuff that the teacher did not have the right to do what he did. I am not and did not say the kid was the bad seed. Just that IF he was a menace to society that there are set procedures, laws, rules and guidelines that need to be followed.

Now I hope that in the proper context that that is straightened out.
Jill was a class mate who broke pencils, was disruptive, and would take her shoe off in class. We all knew the Jill had something wrong with her but we just lead our lives as if she was normal. The teacher never drug her out of class and when necessary dealt with her privately or sent her to the principal's office. Maybe things have changed in 40 years, sigh, hope not.

[robin09]

this was on glen beck tv show saw it online
a mother from canada who is a teacher and a parent of an autistic child started a petition to have the teacher fired go here
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/

the link is on the main page over 5000 sigs so far

Thankyou for that link:hug:

[polineedyan]

Thats the most repulsive thing Ive heard in a long time. I cannot believe that each child had to pick something they didnt like about the boy. Imagine that. And then, he was just outted..spend your day with the nurse? Why does the NURSE get to watch the boy? How ridiculous. Now the kid wont go back. I really think that I would be sueing the teacher, and the district. I really would. Nobody should be hurting children like that. I hope that teacher goes down in flames..