.........................

[C.Ann]

Was reading an article in the Orlando Senteniel the other day about SM being closed for an indefinite period of time in DL for refurbishing..

The article then went on to say that a spokesperson for Disney World confirmed that SM will be closing for an indefinite period of time in their Orlando park as well but would not reveal when or for how long..

Just a heads up for those that are SM fans..

[addicted_to_WDW]

WDW's Splash was down for refurb when I was there in January. Unless there's a major problem, I can't imagine it closing during the hotter, busier months.

[raidermatt]

DL's SM is closed through Sprink Break, and maybe closed thorughout the summer (see other thread with DL/DCA updates). Disney feels it needs to implement new restraints ASAP, so if they only did it on one version, they could be open to questions and greater liability on the other version the longer they leave it open. So while this is the first info I've seen that directly talks about MK's Splash, I would not be surprised if its true.

Hopefully, WDW can hold off until Fall, but I wouldn't be so sure they will.

[YoHo]

WDW's splash uses entirely different Ride Vehicles, the concerns may be different and offset by this.

[raidermatt]

Yes, that's a good point. They are different and maybe WDW's won't have to be modified. But the OS article isn't a good sign. Hopefully, they are wrong.

[OnWithTheShow]

Dont believe everything you read in the paper. Especially that paper.

[MelissathePooh]

I know they were putting new restraints in the ride cars at SplashM in DL - there was a terrible accident at a different water park when we were in CA last November and I think it prompted some quick changes for several things.

Having rode both in WDW and DL - I will say that I feel much safer at WDW, plus the ride is just themed better there. On the flip side though - SpaceM - I much prefer at DL.

[Testtrack321]

In spring break '00, when I went to Disney, it had info on M:S before anybody knew the name or what it will be like.

[DebbieB]

Perhaps it is for insurance issues, putting in restraints. A man was killed at WDW on Splash a year or two ago when he got out of the car for some reason and tried to find an exit. He fell and got crushed between 2 logs. I am an underwriter for an insurance company and I could see them requiring this ASAP to prevent another occurrence. They have put air gates onto a lot of rides lately (BTMRR, PoC), so they are looking to improve safety.

[OnWithTheShow]

Splash just had airgates installed last month.

[RyMickey]

This may seem callous, but I can't believe that the theme park industry is being pressured into installing all these new-fangled safety requirements on simple rides. For over 50 years, log flumes have been running perfectly fine without any type of restraint (ah ha - physics actually works). Yet, in recent years, whether it be because of a lack of parental restraint or a lack of intelligence, more and more injuries have been occuring. This is a log flume, folks. We're not talking about some loop-de-loop thing here. I'm sorry, but I just can't see why Disney (and every other theme park, for that matter) is feeling pressured to do this. A guy gets up out of the log flume and dies...I apologize again for sounding uncaring, but that, to me, is just plain old stupidity.

I guess my rant is done.

RyMickey

[DebbieB]

Working for an insurance company, a good deal of claims I see are from "stupidity". Unfortunately (?), stupidity is not excluded on policies. Therefore, you have to try to protect against it, especially at a place where children are involved. The courts will make huge awards against companies "with deep pockets" such as Disney.

[MelissathePooh]

The lady who was killed in California (can't remember what park) was on a log flume type ride where the ride vehicle went up a large hill and down a steep drop - she fell out at the top as the ride began to drop - she wasn't trying to get up or out or being stupid - it was an accident. Apparently she was somewhat large and without the seatbelt the momentum forced her out of the seat - where she plummited to her death in front of her small children. Had there been an appropriate seatbelt the whole accident could have been avoided.

To me putting seatbelts in isn't exactly an extreme measure - why not be on the safe side.

[Uncleromulus]

For Splash Mountain purposes, it means because some idiot decided to stand up in a moving ride, they now have to "protect" all of us.
DebbieB--I guess it's the courts (in the end) and juries making these absurd awards that are behind all of this. Guess that's why I'm never picked to "serve"---.

[DisOrBust]

Before i get Barb-b-qued by the CMs on this board here is what a CM told me this Jan at Splash. Splash was down for rehab to get more cameras and the gates installed after last year incident. Because the logs on splash are "free floating" (ie not on a track) the Coast gaurd will not let Disney install restaints on the logs.

[Testtrack321]

The coast guard? What the..... Its a log flum. Perilous Plunge has restraints and is free floating. This is Splash Mountian, not the Mark Twain!

[ContempoSMT]

they wouldnt close it down in summer .. because of the hot weather when i go in June I will need Splash Mountain

[DG-12]

The lady died at Knotts Berry FArm in California because something (and I can't remember what) was wrong with the restraints
Dana

[d-r]

I don't want this to sound disrespectful, but she was too large to sit in the restraint system properly. The staff didn't do their job of ensuring that she met the guidelines to ride the ride safely.

What a nightmare for her and her family.

[raidermatt]

The staff didn't do their job of ensuring that she met the guidelines to ride the ride safely.

From what I've read about this incident, I agree. But in fairness to Disney and other park operators, the less responsibility they can put on the employees, the less risk there is to the company. All it takes is one employee who is poorly trained, inattentive, or just uses poor judgement, and you can have a problem. I know its impossible to take all of the responsibility off of the employees, but I understand why parks are looking for ways to take as much off of them as possible. Its not that I'm saying Splash needs shoulder restraints, but I can understand why Disney is at least considering it.

Settlement checks can be VERY large, and jury awards even larger. Regardless of what we think a jury should decide, parks have to consider what they will decide, in addition to the bad publicity that comes with these suits.

[Bob O]

From what i have read on web sites and the newspaper articles the woman was way too large to have been on that ride. The ride op probably should have not let her on but i would also blame her for poor judgement. That ride has a longer/steeper drop than SM and i think putting shoulder restraints is a over-reaction caused by a fear of money grubbing lawyers!!! I just wish i could be picked for a jury on one of these cases just to vote for the alleged victim to get nothing!!!

[HorizonsFan]

Because the logs on splash are "free floating" (ie not on a track) the Coast gaurd will not let Disney install restaints on the logs.
If the Coast Guard were involved, wouldn't they also require a life vest for everyone on board?

[I Luv Disney Cruise]

My husband and I were just there (4/14/2002) and Splash Mountain is up and running just fine. The wait was 45 minutes, so it looks as though it is as popular as it ever was.:D :bounce: :Pinkbounc

[eeyore0062]

I don't think that they will be putting shoulder harnesses on Splash Mountain...how absurd... perhaps lap belts and lap bars wouldn't be a bad idea to help prevent unfortunate accidents and stupidity.

[raidermatt]

Just a clarification....

Splash at DL is currently closed. It also has the "single file" seating configuration that makes any kind of restraint more problematic. Mousplanet.com has another update on this today (4/16), though he (Al Lutz) admits that nothing seems definite yet.

Splash at MK has side by side seating. If they're going to require a change to the DL version, I can't see them not requiring some kind of change to the MK version, but the side-by-side seating might make it easier.

[I Luv Disney Cruise]

SM is open in MK in Orlando. I tried to get on but line was a 45 minute wait and already had a fast pass somewhere else. I couldn't see if they had done anything with restraints.

[d-r]

Originally posted by raidermatt


From what I've read about this incident, I agree. But in fairness to Disney and other park operators, the less responsibility they can put on the employees, the less risk there is to the company.

Yeah, Matt, I agree with you completely - you're right.

[Honeybee]

...getting that yucky mildew smell out of the logs as well. I got talked onto that ride and my hands smelled like mildew all day!!

[I Luv Disney Cruise]

I do hate it when I get off the ride and I smell like mold and mildew.

Has anyone been on the ride lately?

[April76]

I do understand why some feel that restraints are not necessary on this ride; and I competely agree that when dumb people do dumb things and get hurt that they should be held accountable for their own actions...

but the last time I rode this ride I witnessed some really dangerous behavior...

We broke down and sat for at least 15 minutes (probably longer) while the CM on the intercom assured us that someone would be there "in just a few minutes"..."momentarily".... "soon", etc. After about 10 minutes a few "loud" adults decided to take matters into their own hands and stepped out of their boats --- yes, the free floating boats that could begin moving again at any moment -- then they proceeded to walk through, over, and around the scenery to find an exit.... I watched them use doorways marked "CM only" and then reappear when the exit didn't seem to take them where they wanted to go (mind you we were at the top portion of the mountain .... not too far from the exit to the big drop....

well, wouldn't you know it -- a few minutes later some parents decided that they were sick of listening to their kids whine, so they sent the kids out of the boat and told them to follow the other people and walk out... there was eventually a large number of people wandering all over the place when some frantic CM's (manager types) arrived and herded everyone out the proper exits.


I don't know how Disney or anyone else can conquer the "dumb factor", but in this case people needed to be protected from themselves (some crossed over the water a few times trying to find an exit - stepping in and out of boats).

Thanks for giving me a place to vent about this.... it's been bugging me ever since it happened. :(

[MelissathePooh]

While some people are definitely guilty of using less the the best judgement in some situations, I don think that was the case for the woman in California who was killed. I don't know if there were warnings there about people size or not, but unless it was marked clearly with a weight limitation, there shouldn't have been any reason for her to question the safety of the ride. I think most people assume (whether we should or shouldn't) that if it isn't warned against its not an issue. The rides are designed and checked before we as guests ever get there - that is why we all feel safe and the warnings are posted as necessary.

Like I said I don't know if there is a weight warning on the ride at Knott's Berry Farm, but I have seen some weight restrictions posted at various parks. California Adventure has a posting on the swing ride in the giant orange (can't remember that one's name).

[Horizons16]

Is it just me or would it be stupid to shut down a major attraction like SM when the summer rush is alomst upon us?
~Steve

[ivanova]

The problem in Calif. is a new state law that was passed regarding amusement park safety. I think that has a lot to do with SM changes at DL, along with lawyer-types tired of settling out of court every time a guest is injured (regardless of whether it's due to their own stupidity or not).

Supposedly the new configuration at the DL SM causes an issue for "larger" guests, and such guests will have to be tactfully advised (hopefully before they stand in line 90 minutes) that they will be unable to enjoy SM in the dead heat of summer. Some poor frontline CM is going to get their head bitten off by a guest, and the lawyer-types will be faced with a new onslaught of lawsuits: discrimination.

What is done in DL won't necessarily mean it will automatically happen in WDW. As others have pointed out SM in the 2 locations are configured differently.

[marty3d]

I find it absolutely incredible that people would get out of a ride (even if it's stopped) let alone take their kids off! Some people shouldn't be parents.

I don't like the idea of restraints and I say that adults deserve whatever happens to them if they're going to do something stupid - but maybe they need restraints to protect kids from their idiot parents.

[ivanova]

LIke the idiot parents I saw today instructing their child to stand on his tip-toes so he'd be tall enough for a ride with a height requirement.

Do they really think that will prevent him from slipping out of the restraints once on the ride???

And today's child-swap system is there to allow parents of small children the opportunity to enjoy a ride without endangering their children's safety.

[marty3d]

that bugs me too! When I was at WDW - my son just cleared a couple of the 38" rides (he's about 40") - I didn't even try with the 40" rides - he'd probably would have passed (definately on tip toes) but I figure that his safety his more importnat - he can ride them next year.

[raidermatt]

Regarding the Knott's incident... The lady was too large to ride with the restraints in the proper position. The ride operator should have noticed this and not allowed her to ride (sounds like fun a fun job). This is the problem with relying on humans to make the decision. They will sometimes be inattentive, poorly trained, or just use bad judgement. That's why there is a move towards restraints that take the decision making out of the picture.

Not likely to be any lawsuits from large people who are no longer able to ride Splash. A park will never be expected to compromise safety, and virtually all rides have some sort of size limit already. The problem at DL is that the size limitation will be smaller than it used to be, so some who could ride in the past will no longer be able to. (The boats are being redesigned and apparently will now have individual seats).

Its not automatic that there will be changes at SM in WDW, however, I'd bet on some changes. The WDW logs are configured differently, so maybe the changes will be easier (WDW logs are wider).

Is it just me or would it be stupid to shut down a major attraction like SM when the summer rush is alomst upon us?

SM was closed through Spring Break, which wasn't in the original plans. No way that the DL operations people WANT it closed, but they have no choice until the lawyers are satisfied.