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View Full Version : Why Do DVC Members Rent Out Points ?


fortwilderness
03-29-2002, 02:05 AM
Hi :)

It is always curious fortwilderness again with another DVC question. First though I would like to thank all of those who explained why they thought DVC was a good idea. I was so shocked by all of the helpful responses :)

Now I have another DVC question. I am wondering why DVC members rent their points out to non DVC members. I can understand if their points were going to expire soon but other than that reason I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't just bank the points. Isn't banking points one of the main ideas of DVC ? I like to look at the rent/trade board and I am always amazed at all of the people willing to rent their points. I think that if I had DVC points I wouldn't part with them for anything :)

I also keep seeing sellers on eBay selling 5 night stays at OKW and sometimes other DVC resorts. They usually say that they can get more dates and room sizes if needed. One person is selling a total of 15 nights at OKW in one auction. Where are they getting all of these points to get rooms to sell on eBay ? Do you think these are individual people renting their points or companies that somehow rent DVC points ?

Looking forward to you all sharing your DVC wisdom with me :D

Joel
03-29-2002, 07:40 AM
I doubt many DVC members actually rent points overall. We would never rent unless a real money crunch or plane fares sky rocket, we would rather give them to a relative. Remember you can only bank one year ahead-those points have to be used the next year or they are lost. I assume some folks think paying $500 of maintenance fees on 150 points and then renting them for $1500 is easy money. For us the vacations are just too good to simply rent out.

Richyams
03-29-2002, 07:44 AM
Some people have found it profitable to sell weekday reservations and deprive members of the ability to get weekdays as easily.

I am now waitlisted for a few weekdays for a December visit, the weekend days were all available, but the weekend days were not.

I am starting to think that we need some serious restrictions on renting. I know they will be difficult, both in enforcability and the legality of it, but I think that they need to do something.

Three weekdays can not be reserved without a weekend day.....I lke that one.

dianeschlicht
03-29-2002, 08:24 AM
I am not sure what you mean by serious restrictions, Rich. I am one who has never rented out points, and always thought it was "against the rules" until I found the DIS DVC board. I find there are a very few people who look at DVC as a money making venture, not a vacation for themselves. I do think those people are a VERY small percentage of DVC owners. I can't ever see myself renting out points unless someone I knew had a need for a few more points. In that case I might rent a few to them to help them make a ressie.

I agree, Rich that the weekday/weekend problem exists, but I am not sure rentals are the only reason for that. I think the real reason is the inequity of points between the weekdays and weekends. If all days were equal, there wouldn't be as much incentive to only stay Sun-Friday. I am sure there was an equity reason why DVC did that rearrangement of points, but perhaps it has outlived it's usefullness, and each day needs to cost the same amount of points.

ncligs
03-29-2002, 08:36 AM
Three weekdays can not be reserved without a weekend day.....I lke that one.
--------------------------------


Rich, that is a very good idea that you quoted above. I think that would help a lot. But the main reason I think the weekends are much more is that the locals(with in a 5 hr drive or less) would take up all the week end resrevations. They have the freedom to go to the DVC resorts on a spur of the moment. Then it would be really hard to get reservations.:rolleyes:

mikesmom
03-29-2002, 08:40 AM
Sometimes something just comes up. Last year we had already booked reservations for 3 days at BWV for the Food & Wine Fest. We booked them 11 months out to be sure of getting them. It was to be our getaway after DH finished a rather strenuous 8 day seminar series (strenuous 'cause he had to drive to the next city every night after speaking for 6 hours). Well, the seminar got popular and the organizers tacked on 2 days at the end. That squashed the trip. I believe we were into the 30 day window when the change was confirmed. So, I posted the trip for rental and at least we got a few dollars for them. Otherwise, renting them out would not have been in the plan in any way.

As it turned out I broke my leg the day before DH left for the seminars. I wouldn't have been able to go to WDW anyway, so it all turned out for the best.

Gillian
03-29-2002, 09:17 AM
I really can't believe that the renters are responsible for lack of availability on weekdays. The point structure makes it more favorable for owners to stay on weekdays as well, so why assume it is only the renters taking advantage?

I am seriously researching DVC, and it seems likely that I would use my points on weekdays & try out other resorts on weekends. Or do priceline on travel days, like I do now.

Dumbo
03-29-2002, 10:24 AM
Rich,

DVC themselves rents out points all the time. Everytime someone uses Magical Beginnings DVC rents out those points. Everytime someone exchanges into Interval International DVC rents out points to pay II. Everytime someone exchanges for a Disney Cruise DVC rents out the points to pay the cruise line.

You recently made a reservation using points at Animal Kingdom Lodge. How do you think DVC is going to pay AKL for this reservation?


Dumbo

Kelly&John
03-29-2002, 11:04 AM
I recently rented points to another DVC member. The reservation included the weekend. Sorry Rich, but my sole purpose was not to "deprive members" the ability to get weekdays easily.

I am planning an Alaskan cruise. It made better fiscal sense to rent my points for that year and use the cash to book the Alaskan vacation.

Kelly

DVCajun
03-29-2002, 11:20 AM
We always see folks talking about switching resorts on the weekend because they are "saving points." What does that have to do with renting points? Sure, there are some who rent points on ebay for Sunday through Thursday stays, but I keep an eye on those and there are relatively few of them-- certainly not enough to be putting the entire point system in jeopardy.

Regardless, to the original point of the thread, people rent points for a variety of reasons-- going to WDW is expensive even when using points. Perhaps a trip to WDW this year is not in the budget. Or a change in circumstances takes place, as an earlier poster noted. If a DVCer finds they can't make their previously scheduled reservation they have the freedom to rent it out. That's our perogative as DVCers. We are free to use the points we OWN in any way we choose. We can't use more than we own, so it shouldn't impact the way anyone else chooses to use THEIR points.

The weekend versus weekday point system is a totally different matter.

trustknoone
03-29-2002, 11:47 AM
I'm new to DVC (haven't even been "Home" yet) but I think I have a different answer for you. Let's say you owned 150 DVC points and had always wanted to stay at the Grand Floridian or Port Orleans.

For the sake of this math let's assume you sold your points for 10$ a point and found a rate like the 30% off ones that I have seen for the last several seasons.

You could use your 150 points for the room and stay at most 5 consecutive nights in the lowest point season. (Dec1-14 was the time frame I used)
Or you could sell your points for $10/per point and have 1500 to put towards a room, and do the rate hunt and find a rate like 230 a night and stay for 6 nights. (yes I know you have to find a code but I have never had a problem finding one for this time of year)
For Port Orleans with the same 150pts/1500 dollars you could stay 8 consecutive nights on points or 14 consecutive nights with a code.

Hope this makes sense to someone. :-)

Oh and please if my logic is wrong feel free to flog me, you never know I might like it. :-)

Angela

Also if you want to know the point breakdown try http://www.wdwinfo.com/resort/dvcpoint.shtml
and the discounts mousesavers.com

Tagrel
03-29-2002, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by Richyams
Some people have found it profitable to sell weekday reservations and deprive members of the ability to get weekdays as easily.



I don't understand this statement. To make point reservations, a person HAS to be member. Some people use the reservation for themselves (our family's intention), some for family and friends, and some to sell. They are ALL still members, and as such can make reservations as they please. Whether a member personally stays in a room, or someone else, they are only using the points they paid for.

While I find selling my points to strangers a very last resort, I don't presume to dictate how other members can choose to use their points. All these rules were in place when I joined and paid for DVC. I would be MORE upset if DVC starts changing the rules AFTER I agreed to them.

I'm sure it is frustrating to have to be waitlisted, but I guess I just expect this after reading this board for a few months. If you want to be locked in, then buy in the resort you wish to stay at, and make reservations at 11 months. We all play by those same rules, so I don't understand how one member is 'depriving' another.

Tagrel

mistermouse
03-29-2002, 01:58 PM
Requiring the addition of a weekend night when staying for three or more weekdays would never work. The flexibility of DVC is one of its core assets. In our case, the wife and I work on the weekends and rarely have the weekends free to vacation. Our trips are usually M-T (4 nights). Such a requirement would be unworkable and unacceptable - I'm sure others might be in similar situations. An adjustment of the weekday/weekend point ratio would be the only acceptable change to address for-profit rental activities, but even then would disrupt the current system -not necessarily in a positive manner. I really do not see rental activity as excessive, but more importantly as controllable. Eleven month windows and wait-lists seem to be very adequate. Perhaps each owner could have a limited number of names under which reservations could me made (such as immediate friends and famalies). Reservations made under any other name would be subject to a fee....just thinking out loud

WebmasterDoc
03-29-2002, 02:12 PM
Please keep responses to the topic of the thread, "Why Do DVC Members Rent Out Points?".

Some comments have drifted far from that question.

Thanks!!

--Doc

DisneyKidds
03-29-2002, 03:03 PM
Doc - I'll try and help get things back on track :).

We recently purchased 2 DVC contracts via resale (with help from this wonderful board). We wanted to own at both VWL and BWV. Our strategy on total points purchased was to figure out how many points we would need in the future when we need to travel to WDW for a week in the summer and stay in a 2 br (only real choice once the kids are school age). That meant we needed 300 to 350 total points. Had the funds and wanted to put the purchase behind us and avoid having to add on later when prices might be higher. Found what we wanted and we now own 325 total points.

Well, both contracts had points from 2000 and all 2001 points. Basically, we had more points than we could use, even with going twice this year. So we rented some of them. In addition, for the next year or two we only need a studio. Even with two trips a year we will still have a few extra points and we will rent them.

A few years from now when we need the larger unit during prime time I can't see us renting unless something makes it impossible for us to make an annual trip to WDW. Unfortunately, that does happen to people. When it does it is nice to have an outlet for points you can't use.

TandyR
03-29-2002, 04:20 PM
We are new to DVC, but we rented out our 2002 (I think or it was 2003 I have a December Use year so I get confused what point year I am dealing with sometimes.) to a friend of ours. It is what we did to make DVC work for us these early years of owning DVC. I am guessing we will rent out one more year to make DVC work the best for us. We are still growing into our DVC purchese. Luckily we have a friend who love DVC accomodations, but doesn't want to own DVC right now, might buy-in in a year or so. So we had no dealing with a stranger no haggleing over prices so it worked really well for us. Yes we won't be going to Disney in 2003 because of renting our points, but I know we will be going yearly nearly every other year until I am 70-somthing years old. Renting a few points to get started seems very resonable for us since we are a young family doing our best to make things work for us.

CaptainMidnight
03-29-2002, 05:18 PM
We've been on the other side of the coin and were short a couple of points, one time 3 points, another time maybe 12 points. We were able to rent this small number of points which really made a bg difference in our overall vacation on those two occasions. So it was a nice option to be able to have, it was a big help to us even for the very small point amount we needed.

Of course, we've since added on.

newt1912
03-29-2002, 10:02 PM
As a very new DVC member this past January I was totally unaware of the concept of renting DVC points until I learned about these boards. After learning about the renting of points, I feel that the ability to do so makes my DVC purchase all the more the wisest decision I have made. Why? I was worried about what I would do if we had financial problems one year or an illness to deal with. No need to worry. I now know that I can rent out my points. I also worried about having purchased too few points (200). Again, no need to worry. I can get on the rent/trade board and rent additional points from fellow DVC members.

DVC is a win-win purchase because of the ability to rent points.

SINK
03-30-2002, 12:31 PM
Jeanette, I'm with you. I have purchased additional 250 points through Timeshare Store so that our family and friends can all travel together and not worry about if we don't have enough points at VWL. It is also nice that we have an additional resort to use the 11 month ressie if needed. I have just recently post on the rental board to rent out my remaining 2001 and 2002 use year points on the OKW contract (I have already accounted for our needs in 2002 and 2003).

To comment on the question of the day, Why do members rent out points? We have excess points remaining after accounting for all our planned vacations at WDW in 2002 and 2003. I understand the concept of banking, but have already taken that into consideration.

stlrod
03-30-2002, 04:01 PM
Ouch Rich, that hurt. As someone who currently has a DVC auction on eBay, I can tell you why I am doing it. I just bought DVC as my second timeshare (the other is Marriott) with my home resort in Hilton Head where we went for a long weekend last August. We went to WDW and Vero in December and twice to Disneyland/DCA last year so we're a little "burned-out" on Disney right now. I am planning a trip to Hawaii this summer and do not like the Concierge Collection choices (not to mention the ridiculous amount of points required.) So, I made reservations a couple of weeks ago for two studios at the BCV from 7/1-7/5 (while it could be said that I am depriving other DVC members of the right to those nights, I should point out I waited several weeks after we could start making reservations for the BCV before making these). The total cost to me was 112 points. I expect to realize about $1400 for the two studios. The cost for my five night package at the Four Seasons Maui is $1396. So, I get unquestionably luxurious accomodations for 22.4 points per night (w/o paying the fee for Concierge Collection reservations.) As for those who rent out their points routinely through eBay or otherwise, it is their right to do so. No one's going to get rich by renting points.

TDC Nala
03-30-2002, 08:48 PM
My new DVC membership would lose a lot of its value to me if I had to rent a weekend night with every 3 weekday nights. I can make 3 weeks a year at Disney if I book only weekdays, much fewer and much shorter stays if I have to book weekends.

Andrea T
03-30-2002, 09:12 PM
In our early DVC years our 450 points were never enough and we were in a constant state of borrow. This year my son (age 9) said, please, anywhere but Disney! We rented enough points to pay for a cruise to Alaska this summer. We will probably rent on a more regular basis now that our interests are changing. I don't want to sell because I remember reading on this board about a retired couple who can spend the entire month of January at OKW...sounds like a nice way to be a snowbird.

Dean
03-31-2002, 08:05 PM
I own 8 timeshare weeks/contracts and can never use that many per year. I've chosen to own more of what I want to use and then rent out or exchange the years/points I don't use. I would like to get down to 6 instead of the 8 by selling 2 of our units but haven't gotten serious about looking for a buyer yet. I'd still have about 2.5 weeks per year that I wouldn't use. We've also about Disney'd out so we're taking a break for a couple of years.

I'm not sure why some people continue to blame those that rent out some of their points (or all of them for that matter) for the way DVC set up the rules. The rules and flexibility are the reason for the problem, not the renters. While DVC can change the minimum stay, I don't think they could "legally" require one to do the weekend specificially without a vote of the members and I think it must be a 2/3 majority. I know of other systems that require minimum number of days and some that require groupings of Fri-Sun and Mon-Fri. Others have a reduced (shorter) reservation window for less than a full week stays giving those wanting a full week a big advantage. One I own at is variable depending on the demand of the week in question. Xmas must be made for a full week otherwise it's a min of 3 days during the low season.

I'm always amazed when this topic gets going. First, I usually see Rich as very "conservative" when it comes to most of the controversial topics. I usually agree with him in principal on most subjects. On this topic however, he seems very "liberal" and I always have to do a double take when I read his posts on this subject as they seem out of character. The other 2 things that amaze me are that there are those that feel other members owe them things beyond their contractual obligation and beyond the rules in place and that the topic is much like that of the Abortion/Right to chose issue in that there is absolutely no common ground for many.

I've never heard a Marriott owner say one shouldn't reserve the best unit possible for exchanging or renting and can't imagine anyone actually having the moxy to say that. So I continue to be amazed when there are those that feel and are willing to say that they feel owners owe other owners certain things and/or actions.