Editing your Photos

[cjstarr]

What program do you use to photoshop your pictures?
Do you use Adobe, Ulead, or another program to touch up the photos that you take?
On a scale of 1 to 3 is the program difficult to use, (with 1 being the most difficult).
Does one program give you more control over the process but is harder to use or understand.
Which program do you use and why?

[Master Mason]

For processing my RAW's I use lightroom. I can do any basic color corrections and cropping with that, which is about 99% of the PP I do.

If I need something else, then I go to Photoshop CS2. It's what I bought and have, but from what I know now, I most likely could have done everything I actually do in Elements.

[emmabelle]

I'm a newbie to photo editing and I just bought Corel Paint Shop Pro Photo x2. It's easy for a beginner like me and it does everything that I would need it to do, being a hack photographer. :rotfl:

[YEKCIM]

Charles,

I used Picasa at first, then Paint Shop Pro and finally bit the bullet and bought an OEM copy of PS Elements 5. I don't like editing and am not much good at it, but have found that PSE5 is easier (for me) to learn and use than PSP and does some things that I need to do that Picasa does not have. I probably use 10% of Elements' potential, but it has been a good "fit" for me, personally.

~Ed

[MICKEY88]

I use corel paint shop pro photo X2, from all the reviews I've read it will basically do everything that photoshop will do at a fraction of the cost, and has a mush easier learning curve,,

a lot of actions are built in one click deals.. there is a tooth whitener brush a suntan brush a blemish remover.. all really simple things...

[emmabelle]

I use corel paint shop pro photo X2, from all the reviews I've read it will basically do everything that photoshop will do at a fraction of the cost, and has a mush easier learning curve,,

a lot of actions are built in one click deals.. there is a tooth whitener brush a suntan brush a blemish remover.. all really simple things...


I love the toothbrush whitener, my daughter's teeth have never looked better. :thumbsup2 Oops, don't tell her I said that. :rolleyes1

[MICKEY88]

I love the toothbrush whitener, my daughter's teeth have never looked better. :thumbsup2 Oops, don't tell her I said that. :rolleyes1


I just did a senior pic shoot last saturday, the boy didn't want to smile, I got a few pics with teeth showing, then found out a few days later that he didn't want to smile because he didn't think his teeth were white enough, I whitened them on one pic and emailed it to his mother , she said he was smiling big time after seeing the pic, and wanted me to do it to all of them..

I can also whiten them with Portrait Professional , but I do most of my editing with PSP X2, unless I need to do serious facial touch up work..

[emmabelle]

I just bought the program yesterday and here's a photo my son took in Europe last week.

Before

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/lorabelle_2006/IMG_5247.jpg

After

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/lorabelle_2006/IMG_5247-1.jpg


I straightened it and got rid of the extra stuff that was distracting. I've never used a photo editor before and I found it pretty easy to do this. :) It's not perfect, but I'm sure I'll get better at it. :thumbsup2

[jann1033]

i'm using lightroom for 90+%, alienskin for some b/w coversions and weirdo processing and photoshop elements 5 for painting stuff mostly, xero,vitual photographer for what is left. i like some of their presets for vignetting etc, if i could figure out how to use the lr clone tool to get rid of my 2 sensor glop spots i would probably open pse5 once every couple days or less just to use the paint stuff.
i'd rate as,vp,xero as 3-2.5 (,vp the easiest) the other 2 at 1-2.5 to really be proficient at using all they have to offer, but easy for basics.
vp & xero are free but don't do basics like cropping,more for things like softening, effects

[TheGoofster]

I use a program called photo Explosion 4. I really like it, but it's not the easiest program to use. I would probably give it a 1.5 to 2 on the difficulty scale. You can actually do quite a lot with it, but unlike many programs you have to work at it a bit sometimes.
I use it because I found it at a Yard Sale for 1.00. Someday I'll probably get something else, but for right now it meets most of my editing needs. If you ever do run across it at a good price I would recommend giving it a try.

[elizke]

Paintshop Pro here too. It can go from simple to powerful, depending on what you want to do. It's easy to use and all I'll ever need.

In the newest version, I love to on occasion sneak a little "thinnify" effect in. People always love my pictures of them! :goodvibes I don't consider it cheating either. Sometimes cameras catch some really bad angles that are NOT how one really looks.

[AlienBrain]

It depends on what you want to do. Are you editing RAW files? If so, you should be using Adobe LightRoom/Photoshop in tandem OR Apple's Aperture (if you have a Mac).

If you are editing jpeg's, use Adobe Photoshop.

[MICKEY88]

It depends on what you want to do. Are you editing RAW files? If so, you should be using Adobe LightRoom/Photoshop in tandem OR Apple's Aperture (if you have a Mac).

If you are editing jpeg's, use Adobe Photoshop.

hmm why SHOULD one use those programs, that seems much stronger than
simply explaining what you use and why you like it..:confused3

[AlienBrain]

hmm why SHOULD one use those programs, that seems much stronger than
simply explaining what you use and why you like it..:confused3

Obviously it is just my opinion :confused3 . But seriously, each professional photographer I have ever conversed with uses strictly Photoshop CS2 or CS3. All they use at Art Institute of Atlanta in photography is PhotoShop because it is the industry standard. It has tons of support on the web (tutorials, etc.) therefore it is easy enough for a beginner to use and advanced enough for professional photographers to utilize.

If you want to start of small and move on to serious editing, photoshop is the way to go. Trust me, no professionals will argue with that.

If you want to do very basic editing (red eye reduction, straightening photos, using a harsh brush to whiten things, etc.), then don't get photoshop or lightroom. Actually, you don't even have to pay for that type of software, you can probably find freeware that does that type of stuff.

[Master Mason]

Obviously it is just my opinion :confused3 . But seriously, each professional photographer I have ever conversed with uses strictly Photoshop CS2 or CS3. All they use at Art Institute of Atlanta in photography is PhotoShop because it is the industry standard. It has tons of support on the web (tutorials, etc.) therefore it is easy enough for a beginner to use and advanced enough for professional photographers to utilize.

If you want to start of small and move on to serious editing, photoshop is the way to go. Trust me, no professionals will argue with that.

If you want to do very basic editing (red eye reduction, straightening photos, using a harsh brush to whiten things, etc.), then don't get photoshop or lightroom. Actually, you don't even have to pay for that type of software, you can probably find freeware that does that type of stuff.

Ummmm.... the professional that asked you the question might argue with you a bit, just saying...

[MICKEY88]

Obviously it is just my opinion :confused3 . But seriously, each professional photographer I have ever conversed with uses strictly Photoshop CS2 or CS3. All they use at Art Institute of Atlanta in photography is PhotoShop because it is the industry standard. It has tons of support on the web (tutorials, etc.) therefore it is easy enough for a beginner to use and advanced enough for professional photographers to utilize.

If you want to start of small and move on to serious editing, photoshop is the way to go. Trust me, no professionals will argue with that.

If you want to do very basic editing (red eye reduction, straightening photos, using a harsh brush to whiten things, etc.), then don't get photoshop or lightroom. Actually, you don't even have to pay for that type of software, you can probably find freeware that does that type of stuff.

photo shop is the industry standard, because of the printing/publishing industry, paint shop pro will do everything photo shop will do as far as photo editing, and it's only $80

google paint shop pro photo X2, you will find a lot of reviews all pretty much backing what I've said, and quite a few by pros..,

paint shop pro has a much easier learning curve, after showing several friends how quickly I could edit photos, they quit using photo shop and bought PSP
I'm sure a lot of schools use photoshop, adobe gives it away to them so students later buy what they have learned to use..

I don't buy into advertising I tested both products before buying either one...

PSP is much more than a basic editing program..


oh and as far as a harsh brush for whitening things, that tells me you've never seen PSP in action, actually the tooth whitener tool is just a one click tool and it whitens teeth to the degree that you want, and it's very natural looking...


for portrait work..
Portrait Professional will touch up a portrait, in a fraction of the time you could do it with photo shop, so photo shop is not the only way to go

[jann1033]

Ummmm.... the professional that asked you the question might argue with you a bit, just saying...
hehe i was thinking the exact same thing
...and while I don't have the full version photoshop i don't think it has nearly the features as corel painter x ( for that particular type of photo processing) so to me it is kind of shortsited to downplay any product that would do what you want/need to do, no matter who makes it or how little it costs...
imo in a lot of cases the quality of the product has nothing to do with the amount of people who use it, at least not as much as heavy marketing does. at first i was sorry i got elements, thinking i should have gotten the full photoshop version but really i use alien skin and other non adobe programs more for the type of processing i want to do( after raw conversion)...and i still haven't spent as much as i would have for full version photoshop and can do what i want to do( well once i get painter x i will be able to at least), even though really my favorite things to do with photos is more "artsy fartsy " stuff that some hobbiest might not want to do.

i wonder what the real statistics are for photoshop and pro photographers usage vs all the other pro software out there most non pro consumers haven't ever even heard of..and how many have bought photoshop and can use only the crop tool( ie the "it costs a lot so i must need it" syndrome);)

hey mark add "photoshop vs all the other guys" in your holy war thread:rotfl:

[MarkBarbieri]

hey mark add "photoshop vs all the other guys" in your holy war thread:rotfl:

I'm going to refuse just to see if I can start an "is that really a holy war or not" holy war. :stir:

As for the PS or not debate, I'm kind of in the middle on this. AlienBrain makes some good points about there being a huge universe of information on how to do things using Photoshop. It is the industry standard and just about everyone writes their education materials based on it. It is also the industry standard for graphic arts shops, so if you do a lot of corporate work, it's a necessity.

For an individual photographer, it's not so clear. First, it's user interface is a nightmare for new users. It's poweful once you've gone through the pain of learning it. It can do many things that others can't or can't readily do, but those tend to be pretty esoteric for the typical shooter.

I usually council casual shooters to stay the heck away from it as it will just frustrate them and generate support calls for me. For serious shooters, I recommend that the consider Elements. It gets your feet wet with Adobe's tools without the steep price and learning curve of photoshop. I also try to steer hobbyist shooters to Lightroom over a pixel editor because it does much more of what they want in a way that is much more efficient. I'm a big Lightroom fan.

If you are editing jpeg's, use Adobe Photoshop.

This is the one statement that I emphatically disagree with. First, I usually always recommend against editing JPEGs because every time you open one, change it, and save it, you lose a little more quality to compression. Second, because Lightroom handles JPEGs very well now. Even better, Lightroom doesn't edit the pixels in the file. It just stores the metadata describing the adjustments, so you don't have the quality loss in the JPEG for multiple edits.

[MICKEY88]

This is the one statement that I emphatically disagree with. First, I usually always recommend against editing JPEGs because every time you open one, change it, and save it, you lose a little more quality to compression. Second, because Lightroom handles JPEGs very well now. Even better, Lightroom doesn't edit the pixels in the file. It just stores the metadata describing the adjustments, so you don't have the quality loss in the JPEG for multiple edits.

paint shop pro has a setting that autosaves the original, so you never change it, you work on a copy and save the copy..

[oogieboogieman]

Okay, it is a Holywar! I thought it would turn into one. I've been wanting to get some kind of photo editing software for a long, long time. DW controls all monies, been planning our 2 week stay in August since December. So how much does a good program cost? I have one that came with my Olympus camera but I believe its only a trial. Please someone point me in the right direction. DW thinks we are talking several hundred dollars- I really hope not. Thanks

[MICKEY88]

Okay, it is a Holywar! I thought it would turn into one. I've been wanting to get some kind of photo editing software for a long, long time. DW controls all monies, been planning our 2 week stay in August since December. So how much does a good program cost? I have one that came with my Olympus camera but I believe its only a trial. Please someone point me in the right direction. DW thinks we are talking several hundred dollars- I really hope not. Thanks

you can download a free trial version of corel's paint shop pro photo X2 it is good for 30 days, after that if you like it the price is $80 dollars..

that will allow you to do pretty much anything you want with your pictures..

or you can download gimp or picassa, both free programs..

picassa is fairly easy, but limited in what you can do, for basic editing it is fine..

gimp is alittle more advanced, but a little harder to use....

[oogieboogieman]

you can download a free trial version of corel's paint shop pro photo X2 it is good for 30 days, after that if you like it the price is $80 dollars..

that will allow you to do pretty much anything you want with your pictures..

or you can download gimp or picassa, both free programs..

picassa is fairly easy, but limited in what you can do, for basic editing it is fine..

gimp is alittle more advanced, but a little harder to use....

Thankyou!

[Master Mason]

you can also download Elements for a free trial.

Also, if you have a kid in school, or know a kid in school that you can "borrow" you can go to http://www.campustech.com/search.asp?NAV=040206&SKW=adobe+imaging They have light room for 99 bucks, the elements/premier package for 119, CS3 for $299. This is pretty close to half off of retail prices.

[TheGoofster]

gimp is alittle more advanced, but a little harder to use....

Yeah, Gimp took me a while to get used to. I'm hardly a professional, but I do like to fool around with editing. At first all I could do with Gimp was just "gimp along" (forgive the pun), but after a while I started getting the hang of it, and it did start making more sense.
If you're a patient person, and you have at least somewhat of a knack for editing programs, then go ahead and give gimp a try. For being a free program, it does offer quite a few nice features.

[MarkBarbieri]

paint shop pro has a setting that autosaves the original, so you never change it, you work on a copy and save the copy..

That's a workaround that doesn't solve the core problem. With any package, you can open a JPG, edit it, and save it to a new name (or archive the old file and then save to the old name). If, after you have made your changes, you decide to make more changes, now what do you do? You can open the edited version and make more changes and save it, taking the lossy compression hit once again. You could open the original file, make all the changes you made the first time, and then make the new changes. Neither is a particularly good solution.

My recommendation is that, regardless of what package you use, if you are going to work with a file in more than a trivial way, you save your changes in a non-lossy compressed format. Then you can go back and edit the file as many times as you'd like without concern for compression induced image degredation.

It's also best if you can also make those changes in a way that allows you to selectively tweak or undo your changes. With pixel editors, that is typically done by using layers. With metadata editors, it is done by just changing your changes back. The main thing is not to make direct pixel edits and save in a way that doesn't allow you to undo or tweak those edits later. I don't think you have to be dogmatically pure with this approach with every single file you ever touch. It's just good practice that can save you work.

[MICKEY88]

That's a workaround that doesn't solve the core problem. With any package, you can open a JPG, edit it, and save it to a new name (or archive the old file and then save to the old name). If, after you have made your changes, you decide to make more changes, now what do you do? You can open the edited version and make more changes and save it, taking the lossy compression hit once again. You could open the original file, make all the changes you made the first time, and then make the new changes. Neither is a particularly good solution.

My recommendation is that, regardless of what package you use, if you are going to work with a file in more than a trivial way, you save your changes in a non-lossy compressed format. Then you can go back and edit the file as many times as you'd like without concern for compression induced image degredation.

It's also best if you can also make those changes in a way that allows you to selectively tweak or undo your changes. With pixel editors, that is typically done by using layers. With metadata editors, it is done by just changing your changes back. The main thing is not to make direct pixel edits and save in a way that doesn't allow you to undo or tweak those edits later. I don't think you have to be dogmatically pure with this approach with every single file you ever touch. It's just good practice that can save you work.

in that case you save as a psp image, and it saves the edits so when you reopen the file you can undo any changes etc..

[Code]

I wouldn't recommend that anyone start out with the GIMP as their first advanced editor. Its interface is way out in left field compared to the accepted "norm" for user interfaces, and not just for photo editors.

[oogieboogieman]

you can also download Elements for a free trial.

Also, if you have a kid in school, or know a kid in school that you can "borrow" you can go to http://www.campustech.com/search.asp?NAV=040206&SKW=adobe+imaging They have light room for 99 bucks, the elements/premier package for 119, CS3 for $299. This is pretty close to half off of retail prices.

Thankyou also ! Tonight when my (financial officer) DW gets home I'll have her take a look into this.

[MarkBarbieri]

in that case you save as a psp image, and it saves the edits so when you reopen the file you can undo any changes etc..

There are two very different ways of undoing changes made to a photo. In both Photoshop and PSP (of which I know very little but I do know that it supports layers), you should make your changes on layers rather than directly on the background (original photo). This gives you two methods for undoing changes.

Let's take the example of a picture that made a curves adjustment for some tonal corrections. You then made some adjustments to fix redeye. You then made some adjustments to soften the subjects skin. You then made some adjustments to correct a color cast in the shadows. Now you decide that you want to change the tonal corrections. Without layers you have two bad choices - undo all of your other changes until you get back to the tonal adjustments and then do everything again, or make additional tonal adjustments. The second is bad because repeatedly stretching and compressing the tonal range of the photograph is likely to introduce visible artifacts in the picture. With layers, you just go back to the tonal adjustment layer and change your adjustments there.

[AlienBrain]

Lightroom is a sweet little app ... reminds me a lot of Aperture.

[elizke]

As far as saving originals, the newest PSP actually has auto preserve, so that it automatically saves the original untouched in a file the program creates in the folder you are working in. You can disable it if you are short on disc space, but otherwise it's a great feature.

But I also use layers and save as copy. Guess I'm paranoid, cuz I never go back and re-edit. :rolleyes:

[MICKEY88]

There are two very different ways of undoing changes made to a photo. In both Photoshop and PSP (of which I know very little but I do know that it supports layers), you should make your changes on layers rather than directly on the background (original photo). This gives you two methods for undoing changes.

Let's take the example of a picture that made a curves adjustment for some tonal corrections. You then made some adjustments to fix redeye. You then made some adjustments to soften the subjects skin. You then made some adjustments to correct a color cast in the shadows. Now you decide that you want to change the tonal corrections. Without layers you have two bad choices - undo all of your other changes until you get back to the tonal adjustments and then do everything again, or make additional tonal adjustments. The second is bad because repeatedly stretching and compressing the tonal range of the photograph is likely to introduce visible artifacts in the picture. With layers, you just go back to the tonal adjustment layer and change your adjustments there.

uh yeh I know..I use layers all the time

[dad2t&e]

I use Picasa. It is a free program from Google and it seems to do all I want it to do.

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

Thankyou also ! Tonight when my (financial officer) DW gets home I'll have her take a look into this.

So, the thing is, we actually HAVE some basic editing software already on our computer. DH just didn't know it was there. I also discovered my new laptop has Picasa 2 already on it for editing on the go. ;)

DH & I were checking out the different options on the program already loaded on the computer and it is definitely enough to keep DH busy for a little while. Once he gets used to his 2 dSLR cameras, the additional lenses, the external flash, and the photo editing stuff we already possess we will talk about more software.

Oh, but first he needs a tripod! :rolleyes1

[jann1033]

So, the thing is, we actually HAVE some basic editing software already on our computer. DH just didn't know it was there. I also discovered my new laptop has Picasa 2 already on it for editing on the go. ;)

DH & I were checking out the different options on the program already loaded on the computer and it is definitely enough to keep DH busy for a little while. Once he gets used to his 2 dSLR cameras, the additional lenses, the external flash, and the photo editing stuff we already possess we will talk about more software.

Oh, but first he needs a tripod! :rolleyes1

not knowing what you have, i wish i had begun shooting in raw when i went from a slr to a dslr...the problem i see with most freebie type software is they don't do a great job with raw...world of diff between say canon photo pro( or pro photo whatever it's called) lightroom. imo kind of doing double work learning to use a program then unlearning/relearning another when you find it doesn't do what you need it to do in a few months...when you can get one for under $100 imo it's a pretty good investment.

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

not knowing what you have, i wish i had begun shooting in raw when i went from a slr to a dslr...the problem i see with most freebie type software is they don't do a great job with raw...world of diff between say canon photo pro( or pro photo whatever it's called) lightroom. imo kind of doing double work learning to use a program then unlearning/relearning another when you find it doesn't do what you need it to do in a few months...when you can get one for under $100 imo it's a pretty good investment.

DH is very, very new to photography. He bought the Olympus E410 (I think) on Black Friday to use at WDW in December. Then he ended up winning a Sony Alpha 100 in a contest at work. Then we bought the external flash and 2 lenses (a 50mm and a "beer can") for the Sony. He hasn't had that much time to learn about the cameras, play with the settings, view the results, etc. Without knowing what he needs in terms of software I think it would be wise for us to wait on any purchases. Once he can identify what he wants the software to do we can shop for some.

After he buys a tripod. ;)

[Master Mason]

DH is very, very new to photography. He bought the Olympus E410 (I think) on Black Friday to use at WDW in December. Then he ended up winning a Sony Alpha 100 in a contest at work. Then we bought the external flash and 2 lenses (a 50mm and a "beer can") for the Sony. He hasn't had that much time to learn about the cameras, play with the settings, view the results, etc. Without knowing what he needs in terms of software I think it would be wise for us to wait on any purchases. Once he can identify what he wants the software to do we can shop for some.

After he buys a tripod. ;)

When he buys it, get a decent one from the word go, otherwise you'll just end up with 2 of them anyway. Says the guy with at least 3 in his closet.

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

When he buys it, get a decent one from the word go, otherwise you'll just end up with 2 of them anyway. Says the guy with at least 3 in his closet.

The tripod or the software? :confused:

He reads on this forum every day, so I am sure he has gotten some good suggestions from you guys! :)

[Master Mason]

The tripod or the software? :confused:

He reads on this forum every day, so I am sure he has gotten some good suggestions from you guys! :)

The tripod. I bought a real cheap one the first time, the target variety, figured I don't use it that much no big deal. Wrong, then I got a light weight velabon, it was ok with my XT and a light lens, but no way was it holding a 40D with a 70-200 lens on it. So I ended up with a Slick 714CF that I absolutely love.

[jann1033]

The tripod. I bought a real cheap one the first time, the target variety, figured I don't use it that much no big deal. Wrong, then I got a light weight velabon, it was ok with my XT and a light lens, but no way was it holding a 40D with a 70-200 lens on it. So I ended up with a Slick 714CF that I absolutely love.
glad to hear that about the velabon..i am tossing it over if i wanted to get one for just when i might need one due to hand shake or just use my monopod...i love the tripod i bought last yr but it is still heavish once i get the ball head on it if i am treking any distance with it...great for a car to few feet shot or at home but far = to much for me...and no money for a carbon type right now.

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but thanks for the insight on the tripod! DH has until July 31 to think it over. We leave for WDW on Aug. 1.
I think we are going to wait a bit on the software. Maybe we'll do a trial of something after we get home and have some shots to experiment with.