Gratuity on DDP

[letsgoagainsoon]

SO, let me make sure I understand this: When using the DDP, we now pay OOP for the gratuity, which they PREFER is 18-20%, HOWEVER, we can leave whatever we are comfortable with (more or less). AND, that we can either have that charged to our KTTW card or just leave cash on the table?

Does this apply to the FREE dining, as well?

TIA

[TDC Nala]

SO, let me make sure I understand this: When using the DDP, we now pay OOP for the gratuity, which they PREFER is 18-20%, HOWEVER, we can leave whatever we are comfortable with (more or less). AND, that we can either have that charged to our KTTW card or just leave cash on the table?

Does this apply to the FREE dining, as well?

TIA

It applies to ALL customers EXCEPT those who are using DDE (Disney Dining Experience - NOT the same as the Disney Dining Plan) or any party of 6 or more. These two categories of customers will pay an automatic gratuity of 18% on the total bill amount.

You are correct that the Disney Dining Plan no longer includes the tip.

[fall08CP]

When we went in Feb, all 3 TS waitors asked if we were charging the tip or leaving it in cash. They took the cash when they took the KTTW card to deduct the credits. It was kind of awkward.. I suppose we could have told them we preferred to leave it on the table later but they were very forward about it. I guess they wanted to make sure we tipped?

[Lady V]

When we went in Feb, all 3 TS waitors asked if we were charging the tip or leaving it in cash. They took the cash when they took the KTTW card to deduct the credits. It was kind of awkward.. I suppose we could have told them we preferred to leave it on the table later but they were very forward about it. I guess they wanted to make sure we tipped?
Can't blame them for wanting to make sure...they work hard and I bet this is really hurting them with people not paying the tip like they should

[disneymomjcs]

Disney has put their employees in a akward position by removing the tip.

I always tip 18 - 20% or more


But if they want to only add 18% I leave it and don't tip additional unless the service and attitude merits it. Since at the time that was the norm.

Now that the tip isn't included I will base the tip on my service.

We had a rude server last 4th of July at the Liberty Tree Tavern. We were a table of 7 when we were finally seated after many who arrived after us (large parties also) We proceeded to have the worst server ever. He was slow and disappeared for long amounts of time. He had such a bad attitude too. Servers flew round us and people had their food way before us and refills too. He knew he had his standard tip due :confused: to our group size and he treated us awful. Next time that happens I'll be sure to call for a manager on the spot to take care of that.

[Hmbldr]

I left cash tips for all our TS meals. On the sales slip, I just zeroed out the tip amount and left cash on the table. No one had a problem with this and there was never any confusion. These days with most everyone charging everything, I think waitstaff likes to go home with some cash at the end of their shift. I cooked in a restaurant for years, my wife waitressed also. Everyone loves cash. :goodvibes We charged everything (resort, tix, DDP) beforehand, so I wanted to pay all incidentals in cash. Checkout tab was zero $. :woohoo:

[ExtinctDino]

The charged tips get converted to cash for the servers before they go home. But maybe it's easier to declare less of it on your taxes if it never shows up on charge slips.

[jcc0621]

The charged tips get converted to cash for the servers before they go home. But maybe it's easier to declare less of it on your taxes if it never shows up on charge slips.

My mother works at Artist Point and ironically we were just talking sbou this at Disney the charged tips aren't converted in cash. Any charged tips are put into the employees next paycheck. That was one of the reason's the wait staff hated the tip being included into the DDP. They were hoping that more people would just pay cash for their tips.

[bicker]

I'm not sure why they thought that; was it like that before 2005? I cannot imagine it was: As a resort guest, I would never carry cash at WDW.

[jcc0621]

I'm not sure why they thought that; was it like that before 2005? I cannot imagine it was: As a resort guest, I would never carry cash at WDW.

I am not sure, I have a feeling their union may have had something to do with it, but not positive. We carry very little cash either, but we also don't use the DDP. We always charge the tip along with the bill. MAybe they thought they'd get better tips...I have no clue, but they are beginning to realize (according to my mother anyway) they are making less money without the tip being included on the DDP.

[JLKennedy]

I'm with you, we don't carry cash either,especially on vacation. Checks, yes, cash nope.

[janloz]

I am not sure, I have a feeling their union may have had something to do with it, but not positive. We carry very little cash either, but we also don't use the DDP. We always charge the tip along with the bill. MAybe they thought they'd get better tips...I have no clue, but they are beginning to realize (according to my mother anyway) they are making less money without the tip being included on the DDP.

I read on one of the thread that Disney was considering changes to the DDP at mid-year due to the increasing amount of complaints from visitors and cast members. Have the CMs heard anything? thanks

[kmvand1]

So let me get this right, because we WILL be paying cash for all of our tips. When they take your KTTW card to deduct the credits, they ASK for the tip/cash then???? You don't just leave it like you would when you are finished and stand up to leave? Please only respond if you have done this, not only if you are assuming, btw.

[bicker]

I read on one of the thread that Disney was considering changes to the DDP at mid-year due to the increasing amount of complaints from visitors and cast members. Have the CMs heard anything? thanksNot that any of them are sharing. It is almost surely not the case -- just a matter of wishful thinking on the part of those posters. The kind of changes guests want to see would almost surely be accompanied by price increases and that they cannot do until the end of the year.

However, what you may be hearing is that next year's Dining Plan (the 2009 Dining Plan, starting January 1) will be structured differently. THAT we'll actually learn about over the next month or two.

[letsgoagainsoon]

It applies to ALL customers EXCEPT those who are using DDE (Disney Dining Experience - NOT the same as the Disney Dining Plan) or any party of 6 or more. These two categories of customers will pay an automatic gratuity of 18% on the total bill amount.

If we are going with my in-laws and we all sit together (which is more than 6 people), but each family has their own plan, do we pay the automatic 18%, or will it be each party at the table leaving what they feel they are comfortable with?

Once again, TIA.

[TDC Nala]

If we are going with my in-laws and we all sit together (which is more than 6 people), but each family has their own plan, do we pay the automatic 18%, or will it be each party at the table leaving what they feel they are comfortable with?

Once again, TIA.

Each family will be billed for an 18% tip on the actual cost of what they ordered on the plan.

As long as there are 6 people at the table, the auto tip will be added.

[patsal]

Regardless of how many rooms you are split if your party is 6 or more than the 18% is automatic. Of course it is split by the room cards so noone is paying anyone else's share. Example: You have say four in your family, and you are meeting up with granny and the cousins, so there are three in your sister's family and two in granny's room since she has gramps with her. The server will ask how the bill should be split up--granny and gramps on one reciept, your sister and her kids on one and your family on one. Your party is 9 so you all pay an additional 18% on whatever your order total was before tax.

[MOMOFC&C]

Does anyone know if you can use a Disney gift card or Disney Rewards Visa card to pay for the tip or is it only cash or credit?

[jcc0621]

I read on one of the thread that Disney was considering changes to the DDP at mid-year due to the increasing amount of complaints from visitors and cast members. Have the CMs heard anything? thanks

I don't know. I willprobably talk to my mom tomorrow (tonight is Bingo night;) ) so I will ask her!

[letsgoagainsoon]

Thanks...I think I'm getting it now! ;)

[Markstudy]

Does anyone know if you can use a Disney gift card or Disney Rewards Visa card to pay for the tip or is it only cash or credit?


That's what I was going to try and do :confused3

[Disneyof3]

In March when we went to a TS and got the reciept, we would give them the room card and put a zero in the tip line and put in there CASH. When the servers brought the bill back for me to sign they never said anything. When we left I made sure my server got the black folder with the cash in it. I never left it on the table due to being a x-server for years other people would take my tip and I would be *******. All servers thanked me very much and I never felt awkward and neither did they.

[fall08CP]

So let me get this right, because we WILL be paying cash for all of our tips. When they take your KTTW card to deduct the credits, they ASK for the tip/cash then???? You don't just leave it like you would when you are finished and stand up to leave? Please only respond if you have done this, not only if you are assuming, btw.

Yes- this happened during all 3 TS meals when we went in Feb. When we gave them the card to deduct the credits, they would ask if we were charging it to the card or leaving cash. When we said cash, they asked for it right then.

[jcc0621]

In March when we went to a TS and got the reciept, we would give them the room card and put a zero in the tip line and put in there CASH. When the servers brought the bill back for me to sign they never said anything. When we left I made sure my server got the black folder with the cash in it. I never left it on the table due to being a x-server for years other people would take my tip and I would be *******. All servers thanked me very much and I never felt awkward and neither did they.

Good idea..thanks!:thumbsup2

[RACHELSMOM1]

So let me get this right, because we WILL be paying cash for all of our tips. When they take your KTTW card to deduct the credits, they ASK for the tip/cash then???? You don't just leave it like you would when you are finished and stand up to leave? Please only respond if you have done this, not only if you are assuming, btw.

They ask for the tip with the bill, then they bring the bill back so you can sign for the tip. Very awkward, and I don't think I will get used to it. I prefer to leave tips as we are walking out the door or signing the bill at the cash register. We will leave cash next trip, as we go out the door!!

[Hmbldr]

They ask for the tip with the bill, then they bring the bill back so you can sign for the tip. Very awkward, and I don't think I will get used to it. I prefer to leave tips as we are walking out the door or signing the bill at the cash register. We will leave cash next trip, as we go out the door!!

I just returned from 6 days DDP. Left cash for all my tips. Was never asked for it. I just zeroed out the write in tip on the slip and left cash on the table or in the black bill folder. You'll be fine.



BTW, RachelsMom, I love your sig princess:

[Dizneydaz]

I too would feel akward having to give the server the cash at the same time as giving them the card to deduct the credits. I like to leave my tip on the table just before we leave.

I'm also surprised that the wait staff didn't fight the removal of the tip from the plan. No flames, please, but I tip 15%-18% for good service, not medicore, or lousy. And I resent having to tip 18% on buffets. The server doesen't take your order (except for beverages) , & doesn't deliver your food. Many times you need to get their attention for drink refills. And it seems like the servers at the buffets handle more tables. If the buffet wait staff were used to getting 18% on say, a $30 meal, that equals $5/per person tip. So, a family of 5 (3 A, 2 K) would pay about $22 tip. The buffet wait staff must have been clearing quite a bit a $$ when they were getting the 18%. I don't believe they will be getting as much with the changes that have been made. But then, that's just my opinion.

[TDC Nala]

Apparently two concessions were made by Disney when they removed the tip from the plan: DDE members and parties of 6 or more (used to be 8) got an automatic 18%.

[rutgers1]

We had a few awkward conversations with wait staff when the bill arrived. I don't like them asking how we are going to tip. As a former waiter, unless there is a perk for them that I am not aware of, I would prefer the cash.

I agree with the person who mentioned the buffets. We went to several buffets last week, and it always appeared as though the waiter was handling more tables than a normal waiter, and it wasn't like we saw him more frequently than a regular waiter. Is there a standard out there for tipping a waiter at a buffet?

[catne]

It has been reported on previous DDP/tipping threads that it was not a Disney management decision to remove the tip from the DDP: it was the waitstaff union that actually requested/negotiated this no-automatic-tip on the DDP because the waitstaff did not like the way the tips went onto their next paycheck instead of cash-in-hand at the time of service...there were several suggestions that the servers didn't care for having all of the tips as reportable income when the tips go through payroll (with cash it can be "estimated?" I guess) and many servers apparently did not like the delay in getting their tip money to a week or two later. While I think it probably was short-sighted to give up automatic (and guaranteed) tips, it apparently was the servers' choice, via their union. I hate to say it, but as granny used to say, "you made your bed, now you have to sleep in it."

[bicker]

Perhaps the servers were figuring that they could get part of what they wanted now, and then pressure for the rest later.

[missmouse1975]

Yes- this happened during all 3 TS meals when we went in Feb. When we gave them the card to deduct the credits, they would ask if we were charging it to the card or leaving cash. When we said cash, they asked for it right then.

That is incredibly rude. :eek: I've been in the food service business for over a decade. My server won't want to do this - it will harm the usually generous tip that I leave (and they will receive the tip when I decide to pay it - not when they decide I should pay it). Both my husband & I have worked fine dining all over the country. If they demand the tip immediately, I will ask to speak to a manager.

[Katiebell]

I'm also surprised that the wait staff didn't fight the removal of the tip from the plan. No flames, please, but I tip 15%-18% for good service, not medicore, or lousy. And I resent having to tip 18% on buffets. The server doesen't take your order (except for beverages) , & doesn't deliver your food. Many times you need to get their attention for drink refills. And it seems like the servers at the buffets handle more tables. If the buffet wait staff were used to getting 18% on say, a $30 meal, that equals $5/per person tip. So, a family of 5 (3 A, 2 K) would pay about $22 tip. The buffet wait staff must have been clearing quite a bit a $$ when they were getting the 18%. I don't believe they will be getting as much with the changes that have been made. But then, that's just my opinion.

No flames from me. I tip 15% for decent service, more if the server is really exceptional (which we've often encountered at Disney!) I always thought 10-15% was fair for buffets, and according to most standard etiquette experts 10% is the norm. However, several posts on here have made me re-think this -- good buffet servers work very hard, and if they keep my table bussed and tidy and my drinks full, and check to see if I need anything, then I feel like they deserve closer to 15%.

It has been reported on previous DDP/tipping threads that it was not a Disney management decision to remove the tip from the DDP: it was the waitstaff union that actually requested/negotiated this no-automatic-tip on the DDP because the waitstaff did not like the way the tips went onto their next paycheck instead of cash-in-hand at the time of service...there were several suggestions that the servers didn't care for having all of the tips as reportable income when the tips go through payroll (with cash it can be "estimated?" I guess) and many servers apparently did not like the delay in getting their tip money to a week or two later. While I think it probably was short-sighted to give up automatic (and guaranteed) tips, it apparently was the servers' choice, via their union. I hate to say it, but as granny used to say, "you made your bed, now you have to sleep in it."

This is actually contrary to what I've read from CM's here and on other Disney sites, and from talking to CM's in person last year at WDW. The CM's did NOT want the gratuity removed from the DDP. The union negotiations dragged on a long time, and there were a lot of serious issues on the table -- outsourcing, scheduling problems, serious increases in the health care costs with no increase in income to offset them, being paid a living wage, etc. The tip included in the DDP was an issue that only affected the foodservice CM's, but the union had to get the best deal possible for all of the union members, so they ultimately made the concession and gave up the tip.

Disney eliminated tips and appetizers from the DDP, and only decreased the cost in the plan about $1/day. That's a serious increase in the profit -- can't fault Disney for that, many of us are still buying the plan (or paying rack rate in off season to get the plan "free" instead of getting hotel discounts). It used to be a great deal -- now it's a good deal, if you use it wisely and plan in advance. It could be a serious waste of money if you don't make any ADR's or keep track of your credits. And the servers aren't benefitting from this...Disney is.

The thought that the servers were trying to avoid reporting their tip income doesn't make much sense to me because most diners, either at Disney or out in the rest of the restaurant-going world, already pay for their meals with plastic -- either credit or ATM cards. And I would guess that a lot of WDW guests not on the plan might charge meals (including tips) to their KTTW cards. So all of those tips would have a paper trail anyway :confused3

[RACHELSMOM1]

I know I posted it before, but it is very rude for the servers to stand there and watch while you decide how much to tip. We felt very intimidated. This needs to be fixed. The dining patrons should be able to leave the tip on the table without fear of being watched. At the Plaza Restaurant 3 weeks ago that very thing happened. The waitress stood and watched over my shoulder as I was getting ready to write in the tip amount to be charged to my room. I did not like it one bit!! I placed my hand over the receipt and told her I was not ready, and she walked away.

[djs]

Although a tip is customary, I believe it is still optional. Yes, servers are often paid less than minumum wage as they get tips...but decent service is still to be expected. There are places here (MA) that will add a tip to one's check if the group is large enough, but it is still up to the customer to determine if the tip is warranted, and my understanding is that that 18% is completely optional.

I wonder if the tip that servers got before the change to the DDP was based on a 15-18% range, and the servers (through their union) figured it might be closer to 18-20% were customers to pay tip out of pocket.

I too prefer to tip in cash as it gets to the server quickly, and as others have pointed out sometimes cash might not get reported. They work hard, for people who are often demanding (while on vacation, we tend to want to be catered to) and for the most part deserve the money they get at the end of the meal.

FWIW, I tend to tip in the 20% range and will either work down or up from there depending on whether or not I want to wait around for change,and how much change we're talking about.

[TiggerDad3]

That is incredibly rude. I've been in the food service business for over a decade. My server won't want to do this - it will harm the usually generous tip that I leave (and they will receive the tip when I decide to pay it - not when they decide I should pay it). Both my husband & I have worked fine dining all over the country. If they demand the tip immediately, I will ask to speak to a manager.

I agree 100%. I think this is one of the most insulting and rude things that a server can do! If we encounter this, there will be conversations with management and a very big difference in the amount left for the "optional" gratuity! This actually happened to us very recently at Damon's locally and there was no reason for it, not even the end of the servers shift. I almost left nothing but could not bring myself to do that, but, there was a 50% reduction and a mention to the management!

[bicker]

This is actually contrary to what I've read from CM's here and on other Disney sites, and from talking to CM's in person last year at WDW.The CMs do resist the idea that they have culpability for this situation. the union had to get the best deal possible for all of the union members, so they ultimately made the concession and gave up the tip. As you describe, here, this was the result of a contract negotiation, which both sides agreed to and carry equal responsibility for the outcome.

Although a tip is customary, I believe it is still optional.Well, legally, perhaps, but the vast majority of folks don't believe that that is the case, morally. Instead, the tip is discretionary, meaning the amount is determined by the guest, not whether or not to tip at all.

[kaytieeldr]

It has been reported on previous DDP/tipping threads that it was not a Disney management decision to remove the tip from the DDP: it was the waitstaff union Well, no - it WAS Disney's decision, as a non-negotiable item, to stop paying the tip and transfer that burden to the Guest. But, for accuracy, the union represents MANY more people that just waitstaff, or even foodservice overall.

[Booknut]

The CMs do resist the idea that they have culpability for this situation. As you describe, here, this was the result of a contract negotiation, which both sides agreed to and carry equal responsibility for the outcome.

I had lunch with a friend who is a server/CM a few weeks ago. She said that only full-time CMs get to vote on union issues...i'd say a lot of employees are part-time so its slightly unfair to suggest that the CMs really wanted this change when so many of them never had any say in it. And she stated that she knew of NO server that wanted the tips removed. Disney wanted it and made sure it happened by very pressured and excellent negotiation tactics.

[bicker]

That's the same as saying that none of us here have anything to do with that war in Iraq. :rolleyes:

Folks who don't agree with their union should find other jobs.

[Booknut]

That's the same as saying that none of us here have anything to do with that war in Iraq. :rolleyes:

Folks who don't agree with their union should find other jobs.

Wow, do you really believe that?! :sad2:

Some people don't have too much choice in that department, especially if they have a family to support. The luxury of agreeing with your Union is irrelevant if you need the job. How wonderful that you seem to have that luxury, sadly others do not. That doesn't mean they are not entitled to disagree with their Union's decision.

[bicker]

Wow, do you really believe that?! :sad2: Abso-friggen-lutely. There is a sickness of "not my fault" going around in this country. People need to take personal responsibility for the decisions they make, including the decision to align one's self with a union.

Some people don't have too much choice in that department, especially if they have a family to support. Then that gets factored into the decision, and you take responsibility for the decision, including all the good and the bad ramifications.

The luxury of agreeing with your Union is irrelevant if you need the job. How wonderful that you seem to have that luxury, sadly others do not.This isn't about luxury. It is about personal responsibility.

That doesn't mean they are not entitled to disagree with their Union's decision.They can disagree all they want. They simply cannot exclude themselves from responsibility for the ramifications of the decision.

[Katiebell]

There is a huge difference between asking for something in negotiations that you want and conceding to something that you don't want because overall the entire package is better for everyone involved. Yes, both management and the union agreed to the final contract, but that doesn't mean that every single point in the contract is something that either side wanted or requested.

The comment was made that the union requested to have the automatic tip removed from the DDP because the waitstaff did not like to wait for their next paycheck for their tips and they wanted cash. From speaking to CM's during the negotiations, and reading what they wrote during the negotiations, this does not appear to be true, and is not something they wanted. It's not an issue of denying "culpability" or "responsibility". :confused:

[bicker]

Yes, both management and the union agreed to the final contract, but that doesn't mean that every single point in the contract is something that either side wanted or requested. Absolutely, but both sides are equally responsible for the end-result. That's all I was saying.

[Tam1067]

Union negotiations are complicated matters, and because it's a negotiation, lots of things get agreed upon without anyone really liking them. I'm in a union, but I do not always agree with my union executive board. Heck, they don't even agree with each other most of the time! The servers union is even more diverse than my union, so it's easy to see how this issue could cause problems for the servers; non-servers in the union would have had a different agenda during negotiations.

I think it stinks that Disney's current system puts guests and servers in this awkward position. There should be a way for the guest to leave a tip without being watched by the server, and there should be a clear way for the guest to know how to pay the tip (which used to be included in the DDP remember) and how to fairly compensate the server--and since so many Disney guests are not from the U.S., the problem is even less clear.

It seems a bit odd that the bigwigs at Disney and the union couldn't find a better way to work it all out. I have a feeling they'll do something sometime in the future.

[sjaakie]

and since so many Disney guests are not from the U.S., the problem is even less clear.



In Europe tipping is a non issue.
Its seen as a free gift and not as an obligation.
I'm afraid that when waiters trying to push these guests into tipping they end up with nothing.

[Katiebell]

That's because in Europe and many other parts of the world servers are paid a fair living wage. I don't know what the hourly wage is for servers at WDW (if there is a CM who could verify here, that would be great), but the minimum wage for servers in Florida is 3.77/hour. Minimum wage for any other job in Florida is 6.79/hour (and it's almost impossible to survive on that minimum wage). So they really do rely on tips as their income.

Although it may come across as rude or pushy...I kind of understand why a server might nervously remind guests that the DDP no longer includes gratuity, or ask a guest how they wish to pay for their tip (especially if the guest doesn't typically carry cash, and may have assumed the tip was still included in the plan). It's awkward, clumsy, and uncomfortable all around, and I really don't know how to make it better. :confused3 A particular percentage for a tip should never be assumed by a server, and a tip can certainly fluctuate based on how good the service was, but it's understood in America that diners pay a large part of the server's wages with the tip.

I plan to follow the advice others have suggested on this thread and if I am asked I will just tell the server that I am paying cash for the tip, and will figure out the exact amount when I am ready to leave. I will say that pleasantly, with a smile, and hopefully the CM will get the hint that if they do their job they aren't going to be slighted :)

[swift]

The minimum wage in the UK is equivalent to around $11 an hour for people aged 22 and above (less for younger workers), which helps to explain the different tipping philosophy between the UK and US. In the UK you are not paying part of the server's wages - you are paying extra for good service.

[sjaakie]

The minimum wage in the UK is equivalent to around $11 an hour for people aged 22 and above (less for younger workers), which helps to explain the different tipping philosophy between the UK and US. In the UK you are not paying part of the server's wages - you are paying extra for good service.

That’s exactly my point. In Holland waiters make also normal wages. Tipping is something a waiter gets just as an “bonus” and not as a part of his income.
I don’t think that many people outside the US are even aware of this “problem” and I doubt if they read the DIS.:confused3

Mostly the tip’s go into a "piggy bank" and once a year the staff uses the money to go out a day.

I think this problem will only get bigger. More and more “outside Americans” will visit the US.

I’m on several boards and try to tell that tipping is needed but mostly I get grumpy answers like : ”that’s not our problem or if the waiters accept slavery wages that’s there foult ”.


They never had to deal with this and you can’t teach an old dog new tricks.

Just for the record this is NOT our policy .

[Disney8704]

I just would like to point something out to all of you and this has actually happened. For those who have problems with their waiter and feel the need to talk to management, just remember something..you could end up getting that person fired.

2 nights ago DH and I went to Applebees. Our waitress was HORRIBLE. She came took our drink orders, brought out our drinks, and then disapeared for 20 minutes! She FINALLY came around and took our food order. And then it took another 45 minutes to get it. Well DH wasnt about to leave a tip at all without talking to management first about it. Well, he talked to management and came back to our table. About 10 minutes later, a completely different waitress came up to us to bring us our bill. While we were waiting for the slip to bring back to us, the waitress we had, had the nerve to swing by our table, looked at us, she was crying and had a furious look in her eyes, and she just snap. She started screaming at us telling us we just got her fired! While making a huge scene, the manager took her and told her to leave at once.

We never intended on getting her fired, but we did have horrible service and felt management should know. So be careful about deciding on talking to the management or not. You might get them fired. I would just be calm, and just either not leave a tip or a very small tip if need be.

[bicker]

You didn't get the server fired. The manager fired the server. You did what you were supposed to do.

[kaytieeldr]

And that server didn't get fired based on ONE customer's one-time discussion with her manager. That she happened to lose her job right after not serving you very well at all is likely coincidence. She much more likely had a history of problems, and your husband's discussion was just the final straw for the manager.

[Mackey Mouse]

I agree with Kaytie here, I am sure that was the final straw for her.....You do not fire on just one complaint if you did that, your restaurant might not have any servers. In the life of any server, there may have been one time that your serving was off or you could do nothing to please the patrons and you knew they would complain no what you did..

I am sorry, if he fired her, she should have been out the door and not over harrassing you at your table.. that is just not right..

[Disney8704]

Im not really sure, all I know is that when DH complained to the manager about our waitress, DH said he seemed a little shocked. :confused3 All I know is that, we ended up getting our meal for free as an apology to how we were served and treated by the old waitress. So we ended up leaving a nice tip for the other waitress. The new waitress brought us dessert shooters (yummy!) which was also on the house (the manager insisited we get desert!) so we felt she deserved a tip for bringing us dessert. We would have gotten dessert anyway, but it was nice of managment to make everything on the house.

It would not surprise me if she did get fired after only maybe 1 or 2 complaints. The economy these days just plain blows! I heard on the news a few weeks back that just in January alone like 80,000 or something like that people lost their jobs. So it would not surprise me 1 bit.

[Illuminations_Rocks]

That's because in Europe and many other parts of the world servers are paid a fair living wage. I don't know what the hourly wage is for servers at WDW (if there is a CM who could verify here, that would be great), but the minimum wage for servers in Florida is 3.77/hour. Minimum wage for any other job in Florida is 6.79/hour (and it's almost impossible to survive on that minimum wage). So they really do rely on tips as their income.

Although it may come across as rude or pushy...I kind of understand why a server might nervously remind guests that the DDP no longer includes gratuity, or ask a guest how they wish to pay for their tip (especially if the guest doesn't typically carry cash, and may have assumed the tip was still included in the plan). It's awkward, clumsy, and uncomfortable all around, and I really don't know how to make it better. :confused3 A particular percentage for a tip should never be assumed by a server, and a tip can certainly fluctuate based on how good the service was, but it's understood in America that diners pay a large part of the server's wages with the tip.

I plan to follow the advice others have suggested on this thread and if I am asked I will just tell the server that I am paying cash for the tip, and will figure out the exact amount when I am ready to leave. I will say that pleasantly, with a smile, and hopefully the CM will get the hint that if they do their job they aren't going to be slighted :)

I get that we are paying part of a server's wages with the tip.
I also get that some places servers don't make very much as meals proportionately do not cost as much, thereby giving them less in tip.

But... in Disney World, where restaurants are pretty much booked every single night these servers are not barely making ends meet. They are making well over minimum wage. Just one table will leave far more than minimum wage, without even having their regular "wages" calculated in. Waitstaff at WDW is well paid once you include the tips for the job requirements and skills, especially compared to other departments like ride ops or retail workers.

I think that some waitstaff got used to not caring since they had 18% of a nice bill included in their paycheck (I do understand they don't get the full 18%, that they must usually share tips with others). Now, they're just not getting it because some people are cheap and some people just don't get the American tipping system.... so they're paranoid and want their money.

It is incredibly rude for someone to stand over you and demand a tip. I will not feel comfortable in this case; it is pressuring you to leave more than you may have, IMHO, as you will be "assessed" by the waiter. Rude, rude, rude.

I'm not saying that waitstaff have an especially high-paying job. But, with the way we Americans tip, and the fact that WDW food is not cheap... well, they're not doing that badly.

BTW, I am a fan of the European way where they have a higher wage and we aren't required to leave a tip. Makes for happier people overall.

[Illuminations_Rocks]

While we were waiting for the slip to bring back to us, the waitress we had, had the nerve to swing by our table, looked at us, she was crying and had a furious look in her eyes, and she just snap. She started screaming at us telling us we just got her fired! While making a huge scene, the manager took her and told her to leave at once.

We never intended on getting her fired, but we did have horrible service and felt management should know. So be careful about deciding on talking to the management or not. You might get them fired. I would just be calm, and just either not leave a tip or a very small tip if need be.

You didn't get her fired.

If she has the audacity to come back to a customer whom she was supposed to be giving good service to (as she works in a service industry) and yell at them for complaining... Well, there's things wrong with her that should prevent her from serving others in her previously held capacity. She was not made for being a waitress, at least not at a popular place like Applebee's.

Sorry you had to experience that! :grouphug:

[bicker]

Without commenting on the actual point you're trying to make, I did want to highlight just one thing that you said that really doesn't matter....But... in Disney World, where restaurants are pretty much booked every single nightThis affects the servers very little. The more business the restaurant does, the more work they have to do; or the more servers there are, dividing up the work and dividing up the money.

[kaytieeldr]

They are making well over minimum wage. Just one table will leave far more than minimum wage, without even having their regular "wages" calculated in Given that their regular "wages" are less than $4 an hour (i.e. more than 50% below MINIMUM wage), tips are a necessity just to exist.

Just for example, say a server could find a decent apartment for $500 a month. At the $3.65 starting "wage" at Disney, that person would have to work 136 hours a month JUST to pay rent - and that's with NO taxes deducted. One hundred thirty six hours. Imagine that. More than three weeks of work each month just for rent - never mind that the $500 apartment is a figment of my imagination. Then there's food, probably utilities, transportation...

I've said it before. It's not my business how much anybody not employed by me earns. If a server can average $25 or $50 an hour (highly unlikely), good for them.

[Katiebell]

Given that their regular "wages" are less than $4 an hour (i.e. more than 50% below MINIMUM wage), tips are a necessity just to exist.

Just for example, say a server could find a decent apartment for $500 a month. At the $3.65 starting "wage" at Disney, that person would have to work 136 hours a month JUST to pay rent - and that's with NO taxes deducted. One hundred thirty six hours. Imagine that. More than three weeks of work each month just for rent - never mind that the $500 apartment is a figment of my imagination. Then there's food, probably utilities, transportation...

I've said it before. It's not my business how much anybody not employed by me earns. If a server can average $25 or $50 an hour (highly unlikely), good for them.

Excellent points ::yes:: Bottom line -- the tipping system, whether we like it or not, exists here in the US. Servers are paid less than a living wage with the idea that they will make their income primarily from tips. Tips are not mandatory or required by law, but they are customary and expected. There is nothing to stop patron from tipping generously for excellent service, or tipping poorly or not at all for bad service.

And there is nothing to stop a patron from stiffing a server and tipping little or nothing even for excellent service. :sad2:

People don't seem to like the idea of an automatic gratuity added on to a bill, but in countries where tips are not the custom, the meal simply costs more. Is there really any difference between a 18% gratuity automatically charged, or a meal costing 18% more? :confused3

[themudd4]

OK, well first things first...I do tip and usually tip pretty well. I have been a waitress before and I do know what it is like having to work for your tips. I know first hand that tips are not a promise...but a bonus. That being said...I personally think it is CRAZY to tip based on a precentage. I have used this before on the disboards...here is my example...
The waitress at cracker barrell bust her butt and keeps our glasses full, brings everything out quickly, talks and plays with my kids and just over all does a GREAT job. If I tip by using 18% of the total bill my waitress is going to recieve a smaller tip then the waitress at say California Grill who left our glasses empty, was slow, rude, and could have cared less we were there and would have preferred our kids werent there at all...BUT becasue the total bill was higher she should get a higher tip...i just dont get it!!!
But that being said I have never had bad service at California Grill...i have never been there...just pulled a place out of the air.

Now about the waitstaff asking for tips...I think it is rude to flat out ask for tips...and would prob take away from what I would leave...but, I dont think I would be offended if they reminded me that the tip was no longer included on the DDP.
regardless of who's bright idea it was to remove the tip from the DDP I think it was a poor move for the waitstaff as well as the guests. I assume the CM's have suffered somewhat of a paycut as many ppl do not will not tip what they use to get. Guest are paying a whole dollar or so less then before...lol...I would gladly pay the extra $1 and let Disney pay that tip.

[OneTreeHillAddict]

I worked at Hard Rock Cafe in my early 20's for a couple of years for $2.13 an hour! I live in a tourist trap as well so sometimes even though the best service was given you'd still get $2 off a $60 check and sometimes stiffed because they'll never see you again. That's just life....the next table leaves 30% and makes up for it. I can say this, had I ever once asked a table how they planned to tip me I would have been fired on the spot! That is extremely rude! I've worked in places where we had "gratutity not included" stamped on the checks as well as inserts for the bill books but never would I ask for a tip (even if it was allowed!) People KNOW the tip is not included now. It's explained in the dining documents and is mentioned when you make ADR's. We tip very well under normal circumstances but if anyone demands or asks us for a tip they wont get a dime! Any server with half a brain is not going to stand over someone's shoulder while they're filling out their tip line! They might have the option to give you this piece of paper but again there's a time and way for that to be presented. I've read a lot of negative stuff on these boards about people doing this in a very rude way! Big mistake. As far as we go....good service (used plate removal and drink refills when needed) will get you 20% or more. Bad service or tip extortion will get the NOTHING!

[mickey2000]

OK, well first things first...I do tip and usually tip pretty well. I have been a waitress before and I do know what it is like having to work for your tips. I know first hand that tips are not a promise...but a bonus. That being said...I personally think it is CRAZY to tip based on a precentage. I have used this before on the disboards...here is my example...
The waitress at cracker barrell bust her butt and keeps our glasses full, brings everything out quickly, talks and plays with my kids and just over all does a GREAT job. If I tip by using 18% of the total bill my waitress is going to recieve a smaller tip then the waitress at say California Grill who left our glasses empty, was slow, rude, and could have cared less we were there and would have preferred our kids werent there at all...BUT becasue the total bill was higher she should get a higher tip...i just dont get it!!!
But that being said I have never had bad service at California Grill...i have never been there...just pulled a place out of the air.

Now about the waitstaff asking for tips...I think it is rude to flat out ask for tips...and would prob take away from what I would leave...but, I dont think I would be offended if they reminded me that the tip was no longer included on the DDP.
regardless of who's bright idea it was to remove the tip from the DDP I think it was a poor move for the waitstaff as well as the guests. I assume the CM's have suffered somewhat of a paycut as many ppl do not will not tip what they use to get. Guest are paying a whole dollar or so less then before...lol...I would gladly pay the extra $1 and let Disney pay that tip.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v372/diz/4.jpg

[kaytieeldr]

I can say this, had I ever once asked a table how they planned to tip me I would have been fired on the spot! <snip> We tip very well under normal circumstances but if anyone demands or asks us for a tip they wont get a dime! Okay, there's a difference between asking HOW the diner is going to tip (still awkward, assumes the diner is going to tip) and asking FOR the tip. My understanding is, the Disney restaurant registers won't allow the CM to ring out the sale until/unless tip information is provided. Most people will use a credit card or their room key, meaning they will enter the tip amount on the line provided on the check. Some diners will be using cash - so if there is nothing on that line when the CM takes the check to ring out the sale, they probably NEED to ask - again, not FOR the tip but HOW.

[Mackey Mouse]

"Okay, there's a difference between asking HOW the diner is going to tip (still awkward, assumes the diner is going to tip) and asking FOR the tip. My understanding is, the Disney restaurant registers won't allow the CM to ring out the sale until/unless tip information is provided. Most people will use a credit card or their room key, meaning they will enter the tip amount on the line provided on the check. Some diners will be using cash - so if there is nothing on that line when the CM takes the check to ring out the sale, they probably NEED to ask - again, not FOR the tip but HOW."


What an awkward position to put the CM in.... I do think it is a bit rude to have to ask how the tip is being paid or if you are going to tip. I have to admit if I were asked, I may tip less than I would normally tip because I do not like being put on the spot like that. I always pay with a cc so when the slip comes back, I add the tip then....I would think there would be no need to ask me as it is there for me to fill out or not??? It is a voluntary tip...

[bicker]

I think the need to ask stems from the fact that in the United State the gratuity is discretionary, not optional. Disney has employed other measures, in the past, to subtly remind patrons of this distinction. Clearly, the more folks treat the gratuity as optional instead of discretionary, whether in response to these measures or otherwise, we can expect that these measures will continue and be intensified.

[dogodisney]

My mother works at Artist Point and ironically we were just talking sbou this at Disney the charged tips aren't converted in cash. Any charged tips are put into the employees next paycheck. That was one of the reason's the wait staff hated the tip being included into the DDP. They were hoping that more people would just pay cash for their tips.

That is a good thing to know.

In March when we went to a TS and got the reciept, we would give them the room card and put a zero in the tip line and put in there CASH. When the servers brought the bill back for me to sign they never said anything. When we left I made sure my server got the black folder with the cash in it. I never left it on the table due to being a x-server for years other people would take my tip and I would be *******. All servers thanked me very much and I never felt awkward and neither did they.

That is a good point.
I haven't been to Disney since '06 and I can't remember if they have bus people or not. I didn't pay attention to it.
I am always leary of leaving a tip on the table when the tables are being bussed by someone other than the wait staff.

Besides another patron could walk off with the tip. :snooty:

[Disney8704]

Tipping IS opitional. Until there is a law that is passed stating you MUST tip at ALL restraunts regardless of service, and if you dont leave a tip your breaking the law, it remains opitional. You have every right to not leave a tip as much as leaving one. What servers and restraunts need to get through their thick heads of theirs, is that not everyone is gonna tip. Do you think my parents left any tips when I was younger, no. DH and I just started about 2 - 3 yrs ago to start leaving tips. Before that, we only left a tip if the service was VERY excellent. And the only reason why we now start leaving tips is because DH asked one of the waiters at olive garden during dinner one time how much he made. And DH was blown away. He thought they got paid at least miniumum wage. Of course I told DH they didnt, they only made like $3 an hr, and of course he didnt believe me until he asked himself. But before all that, he refused to leave any type of tip. Did we get treated horribly when we went in the next time after not leaving any tip - nope. We got treated the same way as everyone else. My parents to this day, still dont leave any tips. Whenever we go out to eat with them, we always have to be the one to leave the tip for both checks. My parents dont believe that we should have the be the ones responsbile paying their wages. Which I can agree to a point. We customers, shouldnt have to be the reason why waiters can buy food, put gas in their car or pay rent. Who knows (just a thought, probably will never happen), maybe if everyone went on a strike to not pay any kind of tips, maybe the government will wake up and start paying waiters at least minimum wage.

I think the need to ask stems from the fact that in the United State the gratuity is discretionary, not optional. Disney has employed other measures, in the past, to subtly remind patrons of this distinction. Clearly, the more folks treat the gratuity as optional instead of discretionary, whether in response to these measures or otherwise, we can expect that these measures will continue and be intensified.

[bicker]

There is a legal concept known as unjust enrichment. While it is very unlikely to be enforced, the fact is is that in our society it is well established that the cost of service in restaurants is paid for via the gratuity. That's sound foundation for the assertion that tipping is NOT "optional", regardless of whether there is enforcement to that effect.

Beyond the legal considerations are moral ones, and indeed it is those moral considerations that are the foundation for the unjust enrichment principle I referred to earlier. Many consider getting something that the vast majority voluntarily pay for and neglecting or refusing to also pay to be disreputable.

Lots of folks claim that they'd like to see a change in the system, but none of them are willing to do the work necessary to change our society as they claim they want it to change. The reality is that restaurateurs cannot unilaterally increase their prices 15%-20% and expect to maintain a healthy business. This can only change via government regulation, and again, no one really feels strongly enough about making that change to work the issue. Therefore, our society's expectations on patrons to provide a gratuity for service remains inviolate.

[Disney8704]

Sure they would. If people see a raise in the cost for a meal but know they dont have to leave a tip no longer because the waiters are getting a decent wage it wouldnt hurt the business at all. I mean it wouldnt make any difference then what they were paying before. If they bought a meal and paid tax and tip it would cost the same as if they were just to raise the price by 15-20%. Personally I would rather have the extra 15-20% added on the meals then having to worry about how much to leave for a tip. Think of it as a hidden charge in the meal cost.

There is a legal concept known as unjust enrichment. While it is very unlikely to be enforced, the fact is is that in our society it is well established that the cost of service in restaurants is paid for via the gratuity. That's sound foundation for the assertion that tipping is NOT "optional", regardless of whether there is enforcement to that effect.

Beyond the legal considerations are moral ones, and indeed it is those moral considerations that are the foundation for the unjust enrichment principle I referred to earlier. Many consider getting something that the vast majority voluntarily pay for and neglecting or refusing to also pay to be disreputable.

Lots of folks claim that they'd like to see a change in the system, but none of them are willing to do the work necessary to change our society as they claim they want it to change. The reality is that restaurateurs cannot unilaterally increase their prices 15%-20% and expect to maintain a healthy business. This can only change via government regulation, and again, no one really feels strongly enough about making that change to work the issue. Therefore, our society's expectations on patrons to provide a gratuity for service remains inviolate.

[bicker]

Sure they would. If people see a raise in the cost for a meal but know they dont have to leave a tip no longer because the waiters are getting a decent wage it wouldnt hurt the business at all.I'm sorry but we'll just have to agree to disagree about that. There is a vast amount of experience in the industry showing that restaurants that adopt "no tipping" service models get punished by their clientèle.

[libinatorsmom]

To me the bottom line is... I will tip you (pay you) well if you give me GREAT service.... if you dont then I wont... SIMPLE to me... I dont do a certian % regradless... I tip soley based on service... its a service industry... they are there to serve you - if they dont well heck with them... its there JOB!!!! if I didnt prefrom my job I would get fired - hence not get paid... EASY as pie to figure out... plus servers do get a base wage just for "showing up" I wonder how service would be if it were solely base on tips... hmmm that is an interesting thought... I have had good service, bad service, and everything in between... and I will admit I have left without tipping due to POOR service and left very small tips for poor service... I have left HUGE tips based on GREAT service I mean like 100% or more - seriously... if you do me good i will do you good... :) We will tip cash at WDW next week - we are on the Dulx DDP - and if anyone asks me for the tip I will not give it to them - that is just rude and not called for... if they ask HOW I will say cash.... and thats all they need to know...

[libinatorsmom]

BTW : I believe tipping is optional!!!

[BellaNoche]

Tipping IS opitional. Until there is a law that is passed stating you MUST tip at ALL restraunts regardless of service, and if you dont leave a tip your breaking the law, it remains opitional. You have every right to not leave a tip as much as leaving one. What servers and restraunts need to get through their thick heads of theirs, is that not everyone is gonna tip. Do you think my parents left any tips when I was younger, no. DH and I just started about 2 - 3 yrs ago to start leaving tips. Before that, we only left a tip if the service was VERY excellent. And the only reason why we now start leaving tips is because DH asked one of the waiters at olive garden during dinner one time how much he made. And DH was blown away. He thought they got paid at least miniumum wage. Of course I told DH they didnt, they only made like $3 an hr, and of course he didnt believe me until he asked himself. But before all that, he refused to leave any type of tip. Did we get treated horribly when we went in the next time after not leaving any tip - nope. We got treated the same way as everyone else. My parents to this day, still dont leave any tips. Whenever we go out to eat with them, we always have to be the one to leave the tip for both checks. My parents dont believe that we should have the be the ones responsbile paying their wages. Which I can agree to a point. We customers, shouldnt have to be the reason why waiters can buy food, put gas in their car or pay rent. Who knows (just a thought, probably will never happen), maybe if everyone went on a strike to not pay any kind of tips, maybe the government will wake up and start paying waiters at least minimum wage.


I have to STRONGLY disagree with this opinion! The government should NOT be making the decisions on how much restaurant owners pay their wait staff. That is the right of the business owner to decide! If there are owners who pay lousy, they will not have much luck getting good staff, or keeping them! KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF THE PRIVATE SECTOR! It is also the restaurant owners decision whether or not to add an automatic gratuity. If we do not like it or think it is fair, we do not have to eat there. Likewise, if an owner does not pay well, a waiter does not have to take that job. Keeping the Gov't out of private business will ensure competition and keep things on a more even keel IMO. LONG LIVE FREE ENTERPRISE!!!

[OneTreeHillAddict]

Okay, there's a difference between asking HOW the diner is going to tip (still awkward, assumes the diner is going to tip) and asking FOR the tip. My understanding is, the Disney restaurant registers won't allow the CM to ring out the sale until/unless tip information is provided. Most people will use a credit card or their room key, meaning they will enter the tip amount on the line provided on the check. Some diners will be using cash - so if there is nothing on that line when the CM takes the check to ring out the sale, they probably NEED to ask - again, not FOR the tip but HOW.

Right...there's a proper way to present it. I read in one post how a server stood over a womans shoulder and waited for her!? And in another someone asked. "Will you be tipping in cash or credit!?" Who says we have to tip at all? It would have been worded better as, "To make your dining experience easier we allow our Disney resort guests to charge gratuities to their room if you'd prefer. If you'd like to do this it can be filled in on your receipt. It's been a pleasure serving you and I hope you enjoy the rest of your stay!" Sounds like they all might need an all staff server meeting to be trained the proper way to present this awkward suggestive receipt Disney has going on. They could also simply ask, "Would you like to charge a (not your) tip to your room? If so we can do that here for you. It's been a pleasure...." By wording it with YOUR it's assuming again. A does not assume. It's all about how they word it. If someone is rude to you at a restaurant they don't deserve the 15-20% grats! Good service warrants the best tip. They need to keep that in mind. I can't believe WDW would do such a thing....I'm sure many of them are embarrassed by it!

[themudd4]

A tip (or gratuity) is an unrequired payment to certain service sector workers beyond the advertised price. The amount of a tip is typically computed as a percent of the cost of the transaction before the addition of any taxes.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tip#cite_note-How-0) These payments and their size are a matter of social custom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_%28norm%29). Tipping varies among cultures and by service industry. Though by definition a tip is never legally required, and its amount is at the discretion of the person being served, in some circumstances failing to give an adequate tip when one is expected would be considered very miserly, a violation of etiquette (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etiquette), or unethical. In some other cultures or situations, giving a tip is not expected and offering one may be considered as condescending or demeaning. In some circumstances (such as tipping government workers), tipping is illegal and considered a bribe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bribery). However, in the service industry within the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States), tipping is usually expected because it is common etiquette and it comprises a substantial part of the employee's income.Circumstances of tipping
In countries where tipping is the rule (for example United States), complicated social rules and etiquette have developed over the exact percentage to tip, and what should and should not be included in this calculation. In other cultures where tipping exists it is more flexible and no specific assumptions of the tip amount exist. In the United States, it is acceptable to tip anywhere from 15% to 20% if the service is good to superior, and less or even zero for mediocre service. In Canada, a 15% tip is customary for good service.[8].

Just thought I would share that with everyone...

[bicker]

Wikipedia doesn't reflect the reality I expressed earlier. Dictionaries and encyclopedias don't always provide clear, precise answers to specific inquries. For example, by the logic some of your are peddling, a restaurant providing you good service is "optional", yet you still expect it. :rolleyes:

[OneTreeHillAddict]

To me the bottom line is... I will tip you (pay you) well if you give me GREAT service.... if you dont then I wont... SIMPLE to me... I dont do a certian % regradless... I tip soley based on service... its a service industry... they are there to serve you - if they dont well heck with them... its there JOB!!!! if I didnt prefrom my job I would get fired - hence not get paid... EASY as pie to figure out... plus servers do get a base wage just for "showing up" I wonder how service would be if it were solely base on tips... hmmm that is an interesting thought... I have had good service, bad service, and everything in between... and I will admit I have left without tipping due to POOR service and left very small tips for poor service... I have left HUGE tips based on GREAT service I mean like 100% or more - seriously... if you do me good i will do you good... :) We will tip cash at WDW next week - we are on the Dulx DDP - and if anyone asks me for the tip I will not give it to them - that is just rude and not called for... if they ask HOW I will say cash.... and thats all they need to know...

I agree with youn 100%!!!!

[themudd4]

Wikipedia doesn't reflect the reality I expressed earlier. Dictionaries and encyclopedias don't always provide clear, precise answers to specific inquries. For example, by the logic some of your are peddling, a restaurant providing you good service is "optional", yet you still expect it. :rolleyes:
ok, here is thing...I think that the quotes from wikipedia answered several questions that have been brought up...example how much is standard...that it is optional although assumed...and that regardless it is up to the consumer. But in the logic you just gave your right...if a restaurant chooses not to provide the good service I expect...that is there option...then it is mine to return or not. Needless to say many a restaurant have closed down for poor service...so I guess they selected the wrong option! I do not see the link from that to tipping but to each there own...

[bicker]

ok, here is thing...I think that the quotes from wikipedia answered several questions that have been brought up...example how much is standard...I suppose. However, it doesn't resolve the confusion that we see in reality, where many patrons really do feel that they can expect to go into a restaurant and walk out without leaving a gratuity. That's a Class 1 failure of the system to properly communicate the reality.

[stephanie23]

To me the bottom line is... I will tip you (pay you) well if you give me GREAT service.... if you dont then I wont... SIMPLE to me... I dont do a certian % regradless... I tip soley based on service... its a service industry... they are there to serve you - if they dont well heck with them... its there JOB!!!! if I didnt prefrom my job I would get fired - hence not get paid... EASY as pie to figure out... plus servers do get a base wage just for "showing up" I wonder how service would be if it were solely base on tips... hmmm that is an interesting thought... I have had good service, bad service, and everything in between... and I will admit I have left without tipping due to POOR service and left very small tips for poor service... I have left HUGE tips based on GREAT service I mean like 100% or more - seriously... if you do me good i will do you good... :) We will tip cash at WDW next week - we are on the Dulx DDP - and if anyone asks me for the tip I will not give it to them - that is just rude and not called for... if they ask HOW I will say cash.... and thats all they need to know...

I TOTALLY agree with you. I was a waitress for 4 years so I know both ends. The saying "treat people how you want to be treated" is what I refer to. If you treat me great, your tip will be great, if you treat me poor, your tip will be poor. Its just how it works for me. IMHO

[themudd4]

I suppose. However, it doesn't resolve the confusion that we see in reality, where many patrons really do feel that they can expect to go into a restaurant and walk out without leaving a gratuity. That's a Class 1 failure of the system to properly communicate the reality.
as a former waitress myself I can assure you that is more of an exception than a rule. Many will tip, but it may be a very minimal ammount as they are acustomed. My BIL thinks I tip way to much...they leave a $1 tip for each person in their party...They have a family of 5 so regardless the most you will get out of them is $5. I tip well...and for the places we go to often and the waitstaff tend to remain the same...they remember us and treat us like god's when we walk in...
My main concern would be for those CM's & the guest of disney that had previously been on the DDP and even though they have been told, reminded and almost had it tattooed on them...the dismiss the fact that the tip is no longer included on the DDP.

A lil off topic but felt like sharing...
the other day I took my kids out to eat. No big deal...until the bill came. I had used my debit card the day before and didn't put it back in my wallet and when I went to pay...it was gone. I had barely enough cash to cover the meal and I told the waitress I would be back to tip her. I dont think she believed me, but she was sweet enough and said oh dont worry about it...things like that happen. We paid our bill and left. That night I called the restaurant and spoke with the manager. I explained to her what I had done to this poor girl. She told me she had a shift the next day. So me and my kids drove back down there (mind you this was 30 miles 1 way and gas is $3.79 a gal here) and I went in and the girl was there. I waited until she could take a quick second and when she walked up to us she just smiled. I handed her a rahter nice tip (more than I would have the day before becasue I felt bad for doing her wrong) and she started tearing up....she couldn't believe I had actucally came back just to tip her.

[bicker]

My BIL thinks I tip way to much...they leave a $1 tip for each person in their party...They have a family of 5 so regardless the most you will get out of them is $5.Holy cow. I feel for you. :grouphug:

[cmwade77]

Ok, so how do we do this:
I want to be able to give my server my room key for the meal and then afterwards charge my tip to my room, when he/she brings it back to sign (just like we do at every other restaurant), part of how much I tip is based off of how fast the check gets returned after giving my card, then I leave and they can get their tip through whatever arrangements have been made with their employer.

[cmwade77]

as a former waitress myself I can assure you that is more of an exception than a rule. Many will tip, but it may be a very minimal ammount as they are acustomed. My BIL thinks I tip way to much...they leave a $1 tip for each person in their party...They have a family of 5 so regardless the most you will get out of them is $5. I tip well...and for the places we go to often and the waitstaff tend to remain the same...they remember us and treat us like god's when we walk in...
My main concern would be for those CM's & the guest of disney that had previously been on the DDP and even though they have been told, reminded and almost had it tattooed on them...the dismiss the fact that the tip is no longer included on the DDP.

A lil off topic but felt like sharing...
the other day I took my kids out to eat. No big deal...until the bill came. I had used my debit card the day before and didn't put it back in my wallet and when I went to pay...it was gone. I had barely enough cash to cover the meal and I told the waitress I would be back to tip her. I dont think she believed me, but she was sweet enough and said oh dont worry about it...things like that happen. We paid our bill and left. That night I called the restaurant and spoke with the manager. I explained to her what I had done to this poor girl. She told me she had a shift the next day. So me and my kids drove back down there (mind you this was 30 miles 1 way and gas is $3.79 a gal here) and I went in and the girl was there. I waited until she could take a quick second and when she walked up to us she just smiled. I handed her a rahter nice tip (more than I would have the day before becasue I felt bad for doing her wrong) and she started tearing up....she couldn't believe I had actucally came back just to tip her.
Admittedly, I would have done the same thing in that situation, but I probably would have tried to make my trip back there worthwhile.

[kaytieeldr]

What servers and restraunts need to get through their thick heads of theirs, is that not everyone is gonna tip. Do you think my parents left any tips when I was younger, no. "Thick heads"? It would not surprise me if a diner with that attitude relates it to the server, by action and attitude if not with words, and so would open themselves to service that is poorer-than-usually-given by that server. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

In the United States, tipping is not only customary but without tips, the servers earn less than a third of minimum wage. Tipping is PART OF THE COST OF RESTAURANT DINING, and always has been - one's parents or one's spouse's parents lifelong behavior notwithstanding.

The reality is that restaurateurs cannot unilaterally increase their prices 15%-20% and expect to maintain a healthy business. It would be higher than that. There are other expenses involved in wages besides the actual wages - notably, taxes; SS; Medicare; any benefits related to one's earnings costing the employer more...

Sure they would. If people see a raise in the cost for a meal but know they dont have to leave a tip no longer because the waiters are getting a decent wage Minimum wage and decent (livable) wage are two entirely different issues.

plus servers do get a base wage just for "showing up" Yep. Less than $3 an hour. Whoopee!

copied from wikipedia

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A tip (or gratuity) is an unrequired payment Just for general information: Wikipedia's information is provided by anyone. Seriously. If you wanted to go onto that site and change this specific information, I'm relatively certain you can.

[bicker]

Just for general information: Wikipedia's information is provided by anyone. Seriously. If you wanted to go onto that site and change this specific information, I'm relatively certain you can.Actually, I just did.

[Disney8704]

For YOUR INFORMATION, I used the term thick heads as a figure of speech. GOD get a grip and chill out!

Im VERY surprised that this thread is even still open. But I will say it again. TIPPING IS OPITIONAL. And if you dont agree with that, I suggest you look the word up OPITIONAL. Its is NOT mandatory. If it was, restraunts would automatically charge you a certain amount, just like they do for large parties of 6 or 8 or more. Which IMHO, is WRONG. Restraunts cant automactially just assume that the waiter is gonna do a good job. I was talking to my mom yesterday. She was a waitress a long time ago when I was younger. Even though she appreciated the tips, she DID NOT EXPECT THEM. And thats whats wrong with waiters today. They EXPECT tips. Its like the old saying, expect the unexpected. You cant expect to get a good tip, or a tip at all. Tips should be like a gift. A present. An award. When you get one, it should be a surprise. NOT AN EXPECTATION!

Well Im saying this now. You can flame me all you want and I wont care. Because personally I dont judge my decisions by what others tell me and I dont listen or care what people think of me. If I EVER go to a restraunt. Weither it be here locally or in WDW or wherever. If that waiter is asking me how much Im gonna tip or how Im tipping, thats just showing me they are expecting one. I will tell them straight off. Because they assume they are getting a tip, now they wont be getting one. Once again, EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED. And if they have a problem with it, I will take it up with managment and tell them straight off that they need to teach their waiters what they are saying to their customers. They shouldnt be asking how much they are tipping or how they are tipping. And if they say it does matter, that will be 1 less restraunt we will visit. And if ALL TS places do this to me when Im in Disney, well I guess we just wont be eating at those places anymore. Im giving them money. And if they think they can walk all over a customer and tell them what is expected or what to do, they have another thing coming to them.

"Thick heads"? It would not surprise me if a diner with that attitude relates it to the server, by action and attitude if not with words, and so would open themselves to service that is poorer-than-usually-given by that server. Self-fulfilling prophecy.

In the United States, tipping is not only customary but without tips, the servers earn less than a third of minimum wage. Tipping is PART OF THE COST OF RESTAURANT DINING, and always has been - one's parents or one's spouse's parents lifelong behavior notwithstanding.

It would be higher than that. There are other expenses involved in wages besides the actual wages - notably, taxes; SS; Medicare; any benefits related to one's earnings costing the employer more...

Minimum wage and decent (livable) wage are two entirely different issues.

Yep. Less than $3 an hour. Whoopee!

Just for general information: Wikipedia's information is provided by anyone. Seriously. If you wanted to go onto that site and change this specific information, I'm relatively certain you can.

[mom2my3kids]

For YOUR INFORMATION, I used the term thick heads as a figure of speech. GOD get a grip and chill out!

I'm VERY surprised that this thread is even still open. But I will say it again. TIPPING IS OPITIONAL. And if you dont agree with that, I suggest you look the word up OPITIONAL. Its is NOT mandatory. If it was, restraunts would automatically charge you a certain amount, just like they do for large parties of 6 or 8 or more. Which IMHO, is WRONG. Restraunts cant automactially just assume that the waiter is gonna do a good job. I was talking to my mom yesterday. She was a waitress a long time ago when I was younger. Even though she appreciated the tips, she DID NOT EXPECT THEM. And thats whats wrong with waiters today. They EXPECT tips. Its like the old saying, expect the unexpected. You cant expect to get a good tip, or a tip at all. Tips should be like a gift. A present. An award. When you get one, it should be a surprise. NOT AN EXPECTATION!

Well Im saying this now. You can flame me all you want and I wont care. Because personally I dint judge my decisions by what others tell me and I dint listen or care what people think of me. If I EVER go to a restaurant. Weither it be here locally or in WDW or wherever. If that waiter is asking me how much Im gonna tip or how Im tipping, thats just showing me they are expecting one. I will tell them straight off. Because they assume they are getting a tip, now they wont be getting one. Once again, EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED. And if they have a problem with it, I will take it up with managment and tell them straight off that they need to teach their waiters what they are saying to their customers. They shouldnt be asking how much they are tipping or how they are tipping. And if they say it does matter, that will be 1 less restraunt we will visit. And if ALL TS places do this to me when Im in Disney, well I guess we just wont be eating at those places anymore. Im giving them money. And if they think they can walk all over a customer and tell them what is expected or what to do, they have another thing coming to them.

Sorry but your mom is the exception, when I give good service I do expect to be tipped. HELLO!!!!!! I am making 2.13 a hour do you really think I want to wait on someone for practically nothing?? You are right there are people in the real world that won't tip no matter what and they know its customary with good service. But the classy nice people make up for the stiffers and small tippers of the world. Also I would never ask for a tip upfront, but if you told me you were not going to tip me no matter what, you would get your tipless service you asked for!!!

[kaytieeldr]

Im VERY surprised that this thread is even still open. But I will say it again. TIPPING IS OPITIONAL. As is restaurant dining. Tipping is an expected part of the cost of table/buffet service in the United States. Those choosing not to tip (e.g. those who think $2.63 per hour is a living wage AND enough for someone serving them to earn) should seriously reconsider their options.
And, "thick head" is not a figure of speech; it's an insult.

[bicker]

What I find so confusing is how vigorously some people oppose the obligation to tip restaurant servers, while some other people (presumably) vigorously insist that there is such an obligation to tip housekeepers. It seems to me sometimes like the world's-turned-upside-down. :confused:

[englishrose47]

Whew I've read the whole thread and see this is a HOT topic!! So Iwill put in my 2 cents worth!! I went solo in Feb and always tipped very well. At Boma the server was a sweetheart she explained the buffet to me and made reccommendations , kept my drink refilled frequentlt.. Excellent service! She told me that her tips were way down , I asked her, not that she volunteered this. She said since they removed the tip frommddp many left no tip!! At Le Cellier the waiter told me that it had been embarassing for the servers to explain tip was not included but that it was getting better !! Again he was great! At Mama Melroses the table next to me got down right nasty about tip not being included, the manager the chef and the server were all trying to explain . They insisted that as they booked in 2007 it was still included. I felt so bad for that waitress and when she came to my table quietly told her I knew about tipping, she looked relieved !! I do not like the automatic tip for parties over 6 I still think we should be able to tip according to service. One last comment .. any clues on what the changes in ddp in 2009 will be??

[bicker]

We should know about the big changes for 2009 (if there will be any) by the beginning of August at the latest.

[kaytieeldr]

What I find so confusing is how vigorously some people oppose the obligation to tip restaurant servers, while some other people (presumably) vigorously insist that there is such an obligation to tip housekeepers. It seems to me sometimes like the world's-turned-upside-down. :confused:
Well, I figure - anybody who's performing a service for me (getting and serving my meal so I can relax; cleaning my room; moving my luggage) DESERVES more money than their base pay - and yes, that includes positions where the person earns minimum wage or higher.

[bicker]

And as a decision for one's self, I see nothing wrong with that. The issue I'm raising is when that gets applied to someone else. For restaurant servers, that application of obligation on to someone else makes sense, IMHO, because those people are in tipped positions, and the service patrons are paying for is priced based on the expectation that patrons will live up to the obligation to provide gratuities. For housekeepers, that application of obligation doesn't make sense, IMHO, because those people are in non-tipped positions, and the service patrons are paying for is based on the expectation that patrons won't tip. (Did that make better sense? :confused: )

[mom2my3kids]

And as a decision for one's self, I see nothing wrong with that. The issue I'm raising is when that gets applied to someone else. For restaurant servers, that application of obligation on to someone else makes sense, IMHO, because those people are in tipped positions, and the service patrons are paying for is priced based on the expectation that patrons will live up to the obligation to provide gratuities. For housekeepers, that application of obligation doesn't make sense, IMHO, because those people are in non-tipped positions, and the service patrons are paying for is based on the expectation that patrons won't tip. (Did that make better sense? :confused: )

I understand what you are saying..

[mom_of_3_70737]

Ok, no flames please :) This question may not have already been asked, but I didn't find it anywhere. I appoligize if it has :thumbsup2 If you have the Deluxe DDP, is gratuity included? I read somewhere that it is included at CRT and HDDR, and was just curious. Thanks in advance! :)

[mom2my3kids]

Ok, no flames please :) This question may not have already been asked, but I didn't find it anywhere. I appoligize if it has :thumbsup2 If you have the Deluxe DDP, is gratuity included? I read somewhere that it is included at CRT and HDDR, and was just curious. Thanks in advance! :)

No its not included, but yes on the CRT and HDDR it is.. I hope this makes sense, at other restaurants its not included but on these two places it is..

[Katiebell]

As heated and emotional as some of the posts on here are, last year the big issue was, "Oh, we hate having the tip included in the DDP -- the servers treat us like second class citizens, they already know they are getting a hefty 18% so they totally ignore us, we got terrible service because they don't have to work for their tip, etc." This year -- was it on this thread? -- I have even read, "We aren't on the DDP, but the server treated another table with the DDP better than us because they knew that with dessert added in the total check would be higher..." :rotfl2: :lmao: :rotfl: For the record, we got excellent service on the DDP last year, no complaints -- and I'm not happy the tip was excluded this year. It's just more money out of my pocket, but oh well, can't change it, it is what it is. :confused3

People from different backgrounds and different parts of the country or different parts of the world have really different attitudes toward tipping. Arguing about it here is not likely to significantly change anyone's mind.

The facts are:
~Tipping is the accepted custom in the United States. Like it or not, barbaric or demeaning, or whatever you think it is, it's the way it works here.

~Some servers like that they work for tips, because if they are really good at their job, and their patrons are generous, they can make a good wage.

~Servers in the US typically make much less than the standard minimum wage because it is expected that they will be tipped -- and they are TAXED by the government whether or not they are tipped.

~Servers usually have to share a portion of their tips with bussers, hosts, etc.

~The customary percentage varies depending on the part of the country, but in busy touristy areas -- like WDW -- the typical tip is 18% for good service. That's the amount that used to be included in the DDP, and that's the amount automatically added to DDE bills and for parties of 6 or more.

~It is not illegal to refuse to tip. It may not be nice, fair, ethical, or polite, but it's not illegal.

~If you refuse to tip, or tip poorly at a WDW restaurant, you will probably get away with it. Unless your service was horrible, it's a really mean thing to do to your server, but since you probably won't be back for at least a year...they won't remember you. If you refuse to tip or tip poorly at a neighborhood restaurant you frequent...well, that's a different story. I can't imagine stiffing the wait staff on a regular basis, and then expecting them to provide good service. Or trusting them to handle my food before I see it :rotfl2:

[Disney8704]

Good facts but you seem to have left out 1. Its seems like no matter what Disney does, not everyone is happy. Waiters didnt like the automatic tipping. Some waiters did. Customers HATED the automatic tipping. Some customers loved it. This yr, some waiters hate not having automatic tips and some love it and same goes with customers. Seems like not everyone can be pleased. To me the whole DDP should just end. That way no one can complain why tipping isnt included anymore. Waiters dont have to worry about explaining how the DDP works and what they can get. Waiters dont have to worry about asking how they are gonna tip. Seems like the DDP is becoming more and more of a hassle then a good thing. It might have been a good deal in the past, but like the old saying - All good things must come to an end. And the DDP should just come to an end already. And who knows. Maybe then we can go back to NOT having to make ADRs 180 days in advance. We can actually just go to WDW with no ADRs and do a walk up.

As for the whole tipping issue, everyone is gonna have different opinions on tipping and I find it pointless to argue about it. Im not gonna change anyone's minds, everyone else cant change anyone's mind, and etc. One of my friends NEVER tip. Because she feels that she shouldnt have to give money to a stranger. And that its not her responsbility to have to worry about how that person pays their bills, buy food, etc. She believes that waiting tables should be for high school and college kids. People who want/need money, but if they dont come home with $1000 a month in tips its no big deal. I wouldnt say she's selfish because she does care about other people and not just herself. But she doesnt feel the need to have to give her hard working money to someone else just so they can pay for whatever. She did make a good point. We dont know exactly what their tip money is going to. It could go to food, gas, bills, etc. But it could also go towards paying for cigarettes, drugs, alcohol. And I for one would hate to see the money I gave to a waiter blow it on stupid usless stuff like drugs. But anyways, she has her own bills to that need to get paid for. And yes, she is also the type that believe just because you cant pay for a tip doesnt mean you cant go out to eat. Point is to my story, I couldnt change her mind even if its the last thing on earth. Which applies to everyone else. Stop worrying about what others are doing and just do your own thing. If you saw someone jump off a bridge, would you feel the need to have to follow them and jump off a bridge to? If you wanna tip 10%, 15%, 20%, etc. you go for it! If you dont wanna tip at all, you go for it. If everyone did the exact same thing in this world, no one would be different. No one would have their own thought process.

As heated and emotional as some of the posts on here are, last year the big issue was, "Oh, we hate having the tip included in the DDP -- the servers treat us like second class citizens, they already know they are getting a hefty 18% so they totally ignore us, we got terrible service because they don't have to work for their tip, etc." This year -- was it on this thread? -- I have even read, "We aren't on the DDP, but the server treated another table with the DDP better than us because they knew that with dessert added in the total check would be higher..." :rotfl2: :lmao: :rotfl: For the record, we got excellent service on the DDP last year, no complaints -- and I'm not happy the tip was excluded this year. It's just more money out of my pocket, but oh well, can't change it, it is what it is. :confused3

People from different backgrounds and different parts of the country or different parts of the world have really different attitudes toward tipping. Arguing about it here is not likely to significantly change anyone's mind.

The facts are:
~Tipping is the accepted custom in the United States. Like it or not, barbaric or demeaning, or whatever you think it is, it's the way it works here.

~Some servers like that they work for tips, because if they are really good at their job, and their patrons are generous, they can make a good wage.

~Servers in the US typically make much less than the standard minimum wage because it is expected that they will be tipped -- and they are TAXED by the government whether or not they are tipped.

~Servers usually have to share a portion of their tips with bussers, hosts, etc.

~The customary percentage varies depending on the part of the country, but in busy touristy areas -- like WDW -- the typical tip is 18% for good service. That's the amount that used to be included in the DDP, and that's the amount automatically added to DDE bills and for parties of 6 or more.

~It is not illegal to refuse to tip. It may not be nice, fair, ethical, or polite, but it's not illegal.

~If you refuse to tip, or tip poorly at a WDW restaurant, you will probably get away with it. Unless your service was horrible, it's a really mean thing to do to your server, but since you probably won't be back for at least a year...they won't remember you. If you refuse to tip or tip poorly at a neighborhood restaurant you frequent...well, that's a different story. I can't imagine stiffing the wait staff on a regular basis, and then expecting them to provide good service. Or trusting them to handle my food before I see it :rotfl2:

[kaytieeldr]

To me the whole DDP should just end. That way no one can complain why tipping isnt included anymore. Waiters dont have to worry about explaining how the DDP works and what they can get. Waiters dont have to worry about asking how they are gonna tip. Seems like the DDP is becoming more and more of a hassle then a good thing. It might have been a good deal in the past, but like the old saying - All good things must come to an end. And the DDP should just come to an end already. It's an option, not a requirement. Nobody HAS to purchase the DDP. Guests who consider it a hassle or too much trouble or whatever can just pay cash for their food.

We dont know exactly what their tip money is going to. It could go to food, gas, bills, etc. But it could also go towards paying for cigarettes, drugs, alcohol. Oh, please. That's asinine. Does the person who pays YOU judge where you're money's being spent, and decide whether/how much to pay you based on his or her assumptions on your budget? TIPPING IS AN EXPECTED PART OF THE COST OF DINING IN A RESTAURANT WHERE SOMEBODY SERVES YOU. PERIOD. Change your mind, don't change your mind, whatever. But don't use ridiculous or trumped-up excuses to avoid tipping.

[averysmom]

I tip - and with that out of the way - I don't understand why it's based on the total amount of your bill???

Shouldn't it be based on the amount of dishes / courses / ppl you have?

The waitress at the burger joint who serves our family of 4 burgers and fries and shakes is working much harder than the waiter who serves dh and I at the fine dining establishment - and yet who would get the higher tip? The fine dining waiter because the ticket was higher.

Just a thought.

[themudd4]

I tip - and with that out of the way - I don't understand why it's based on the total amount of your bill???

Shouldn't it be based on the amount of dishes / courses / ppl you have?

The waitress at the burger joint who serves our family of 4 burgers and fries and shakes is working much harder than the waiter who serves dh and I at the fine dining establishment - and yet who would get the higher tip? The fine dining waiter because the ticket was higher.

Just a thought.

I made the same remarks back on post #60....GREAT MINDS!!! (regardless what anyone else thinks!)

[Disney8704]

It should be, but it isnt. Some people do tip that way. Some people might say OK $2 per plate or whatever. Most tip on % though. DH and I are discussing this. We are trying to decide weither or not keep tipping % or switch to a certain $ amount per dish or just a certain $ amount regardless what the bill is. Like $5 tips. Our meals never come out to be no more then $30 - $35 and we always leave 15% tips. So it usually comes out to be about $5 for tips anyways. Now when we go to Disney, we will probably stick with the 15% tips, or I might look at the highest tip (which is $10, I have figured out all our tips for each TS meal and they all range from $5 - $10) we will give during our vacation and say OK, no matter what the bill is, we will leave a $10 tip. So that server could get a 15% tip from us or maybe even a 20% tip or more.

I tip - and with that out of the way - I don't understand why it's based on the total amount of your bill???

Shouldn't it be based on the amount of dishes / courses / ppl you have?

The waitress at the burger joint who serves our family of 4 burgers and fries and shakes is working much harder than the waiter who serves dh and I at the fine dining establishment - and yet who would get the higher tip? The fine dining waiter because the ticket was higher.

Just a thought.

[Katiebell]

It's an option, not a requirement. Nobody HAS to purchase the DDP. Guests who consider it a hassle or too much trouble or whatever can just pay cash for their food.

I agree. :thumbsup2 We, among many others, happen to like the DDP a lot. At least we did, we'll see after the changes this year :laughing: But we go to DL about once a year, and they don't have anything like it. And you still are expected to pay a tip, regardless of how you choose pay for your meals.

Oh, please. That's asinine. Does the person who pays YOU judge where you're money's being spent, and decide whether/how much to pay you based on his or her assumptions on your budget? TIPPING IS AN EXPECTED PART OF THE COST OF DINING IN A RESTAURANT WHERE SOMEBODY SERVES YOU. PERIOD. Change your mind, don't change your mind, whatever. But don't use ridiculous or trumped-up excuses to avoid tipping.

Well... :confused3 I think it's coming from the concept that tipping is over and above a server's wage, and is just "extra", not what they rely on as their take home pay :confused: Like when you tip housekeeping or valet parking or bellhops -- they all make at least minimum wage and tips truly are just little extra bonuses. But it brought to mind the guy I saw on the street corner with a sign that said, "Why lie, I need a beer." :laughing:

I'm not sure if everyone truly understands that if there was no tipping --
restaurants would be required BY LAW to pay their servers at least minimum wage --
and who do you think would cover the cost of that? The patrons. Menu prices would go up to make up the difference. Also, with the prospect of only minimum wage, quality servers would not be attracted to such low paying dead end jobs. Waiting tables -- and doing a good job of it -- is hard work.

I tip - and with that out of the way - I don't understand why it's based on the total amount of your bill???

Shouldn't it be based on the amount of dishes / courses / ppl you have?

The waitress at the burger joint who serves our family of 4 burgers and fries and shakes is working much harder than the waiter who serves dh and I at the fine dining establishment - and yet who would get the higher tip? The fine dining waiter because the ticket was higher.

Just a thought.

I agree they may work just as hard or harder. I think it's the same concept though, that you might pay $40 for a steak dinner at an nice restaurant, but you would expect to pay $10 for a steak dinner at a coffee shop. And you would expect less out of the meal as far as quality, ingredients, and presentation. In a more upscale establishment, you are going to probably expect more out of the waitstaff, too.

[RACHELSMOM1]

I tip - and with that out of the way - I don't understand why it's based on the total amount of your bill???

Shouldn't it be based on the amount of dishes / courses / ppl you have?

The waitress at the burger joint who serves our family of 4 burgers and fries and shakes is working much harder than the waiter who serves dh and I at the fine dining establishment - and yet who would get the higher tip? The fine dining waiter because the ticket was higher.

Just a thought.

I am so with you here!! Just because a server is lucky enough to work in a special restaurant with high priced entrees should not mean that he/she is automatically entitled to a bigger tip....

[Disney8704]

Not always. Theres a small family owned restraunt that DH and I go to often and I LOVE their food. Their prices are low, the presentation is nothing more then how you would see it presented like at Applesbees. Nothing fancy. Just food on a plate. Their steak is OMG delicious! And for me and DH it only cost $20 to eat there including tip. Then I go to Ruby Tuesdays. Try their steak. Their restraunt is more upscale. But is their food more upscale then that family owned restraunt? No. I would rather have that steak at the family owned restraunt then ruby tuesdays any day! Another example Olive Garden and another Italian Restraunt that we tried 1 time thats VERY fancy. Which would I rather have? Olive Garden hands down. Olive Gardens salad, breadsticks, and chicken parmasian (sp?) AND service is like 10000% better then that fancy italian restraunt and olive garden is cheaper to. So just because that restraunt might be more upscale doesnt mean its gonna be better.

And you would expect less out of the meal as far as quality, ingredients, and presentation. In a more upscale establishment, you are going to probably expect more out of the waitstaff, too.

[Katiebell]

Not always. Theres a small family owned restraunt that DH and I go to often and I LOVE their food. Their prices are low, the presentation is nothing more then how you would see it presented like at Applesbees. Nothing fancy. Just food on a plate. Their steak is OMG delicious! And for me and DH it only cost $20 to eat there including tip. Then I go to Ruby Tuesdays. Try their steak. Their restraunt is more upscale. But is their food more upscale then that family owned restraunt? No. I would rather have that steak at the family owned restraunt then ruby tuesdays any day! Another example Olive Garden and another Italian Restraunt that we tried 1 time thats VERY fancy. Which would I rather have? Olive Garden hands down. Olive Gardens salad, breadsticks, and chicken parmasian (sp?) AND service is like 10000% better then that fancy italian restraunt and olive garden is cheaper to. So just because that restraunt might be more upscale doesnt mean its gonna be better.

Of course it doesn't and there are a lot of local, hole-in-the-wall, Mom and Pop places that serve great cheap food. That's not the point I was making.

If you pay $80 for a pair of shoes, you can expect that they will be constructed better, made of better material, and last longer than a $20 pair of shoes. Not always the case, but it's a reasonable expectation.

If you go to a restaurant that costs considerably more for meal, you as a consumer can rightfully expect that the quality, ingredients, and presentation of your meal -- and the service -- will be something more than what you would get at an inexpensive eatery. That is why you would pay more to eat there in the first place. Not always the case, but if a restaurant charges more, they are expected to offer more (not more quantity, but more quality). At the local pancake house, I expect the server to be pleasant, take my order correctly, keep my coffee cup full, bring more cream for my coffee if I run out, and bring my check in a timely manner. I don't expect the server there to grind pepper or grate parmesan on my salad, or make knowledgeable wine recommendations, or flambe Bananas Foster or Cherries Jubilee tableside.

[bicker]

As for the whole tipping issue, everyone is gonna have different opinions on tipping and I find it pointless to argue about it. Im not gonna change anyone's minds, everyone else cant change anyone's mind, and etc.That is absolutely not true. In another thread, we're talking about gratuities for housekeepers. I grew up in New York, so as far as I knew, you were always supposed to tip housekeepers. I had no idea that that was only true for some of the hotel chains in the country, that the rest (and now more and more) pay their housekeepers based on an assumption that they won't be tipped. I was on the "Thou must tip the housekeepers" brigade here on the DIS. Then I read messages from folks saying, "What are you talking about? Tipping housekeepers?!?!? Are you crazy?" Collectively we did some research, and I personally put the question to the GM from the BoardWalk Resort. Guess what? I learned that I was wrong! That Disney's housekeepers are non-tipped positions, and they aren't even supposed accept tips offered. Those discussions prompted me to learn the truth, and my mind was changed. This is clearly a more difficult situation, because it isn't just a matter of how the job is classified, but still.

One of my friends NEVER tip. Because she feels that she shouldnt have to give money to a stranger. And that its not her responsbility to have to worry about how that person pays their bills, buy food, etc.That much is true: She should tip because tipping restaurant servers is proper conduct in our society -- everywhere.

Stop worrying about what others are doing and just do your own thing. If you saw someone jump off a bridge, would you feel the need to have to follow them and jump off a bridge to?You're looking at it backwards. This isn't about someone jumping off a bridge -- it is about them not caring about what they throw off the side of the bridge, onto whatever happens to be below.

For example, I care a lot when people throw trash from their cars on the highway. I should post a photo of what our driveway looks like -- where do folks think that trash eventually goes? It doesn't disappear. It ends up spreading from the highway to the homes that line the highway.

Folks not tipping damages the system that we all live within. Those of us who are doing what is proper are ostensibly thereby subsidizing those who aren't. How is that fair?



Rolling back a bit in your message...

To me the whole DDP should just end. That way no one can complain why tipping isnt included anymore. Waiters dont have to worry about explaining how the DDP works and what they can get. Waiters dont have to worry about asking how they are gonna tip. Seems like the DDP is becoming more and more of a hassle then a good thing. It might have been a good deal in the past, but like the old saying - All good things must come to an end. And the DDP should just come to an end already. And who knows. Maybe then we can go back to NOT having to make ADRs 180 days in advance. We can actually just go to WDW with no ADRs and do a walk up.It's an option, not a requirement. Nobody HAS to purchase the DDP. Guests who consider it a hassle or too much trouble or whatever can just pay cash for their food.

I don't disagree with anything Disney8704 has said here. (How's that for dodging the issue? :)) What I do want to point out is the parallel between what I said about what Disney8704 said in the first quote in this message, and what Kaytie is saying here: The existence of the Dining Plan affects those who don't use it. It is again like dropping trash off the side of a bridge without regard to what's below or where the trash ends up going. The only reason to keep the Dining Plan is because it does more good for Disney's bottom-line than not offering it. If it were ever to be more damaging than beneficial to the bottom-line, then Disney should absolutely get rid of it. And beyond that, people have every right to care about the fact that it exists. They shouldn't "expect" Disney to get rid of it because they don't like it, or because CMs don't like it (because, again, all that matters is that it generates enough profit), but their disappointment with its existence is surely valid.

[bicker]

I tip - and with that out of the way - I don't understand why it's based on the total amount of your bill??? Shouldn't it be based on the amount of dishes / courses / ppl you have?This is like asking why we drive on the right side of the road -- shouldn't we drive on the left? (Or vice versa, as the case may be.) In the end, if the question is being asked because you expect to pay less that way, on average, then your expectation is wrong. When people talk about changing the income tax from today's progressive tax structure to a "flat" tax, they're still talking about raising the same amount of tax revenue -- they're just shifting some of the burden from some people to some other people. And changing the gratuity structure would be like a flat tax, shifting some of the burden on to people who on average* are less affluent (i.e., more adversely affected by having more financial burden placed on them).

* Make sure you understand the term "on average" in the sentence above before you reply!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

The waitress at the burger joint who serves our family of 4 burgers and fries and shakes is working much harder than the waiter who serves dh and I at the fine dining establishment - and yet who would get the higher tip? The fine dining waiter because the ticket was higher.The waitress at the burger joint probably works harder than I do, yet I probably make a lot more than she does. If the waitress at the burger joint was able to get the better paying job, and wanted it, then that is what she should do.

[bicker]

So just because that restraunt might be more upscale doesnt mean its gonna be better.And so you should choose the restaurant that you feel provides you the best value. That's the only relevant factor in play here.

[FayeW]

Those of us who are doing what is proper are ostensibly thereby subsidizing those who aren't. How is that fair?





Well, the reality is that you (the consumers) are already paying for your government to do the wrong thing. Your government has created a system where you are "responsible" to pay part of your server's wage. They have decided that wait staff, bartenders, etc do not deserve to earn the same minimum wage as everyone else. I have read in several threads that your government also taxes them on a percentage of their sales, so even if they didn't actually earn a tip on that sale, they pay tax as if they did. That is all kinds of wrong!

How come the Canadian and British employers can pay their wait staff the same minimum wage as everybody else and still have reasonable menu prices, but Americans are convinced that if they paid their staff minimum wage, menu prices would go through the roof?

[bicker]

The government didn't create the system. We The People created the system, long before the government stuck its nose into things like that. The government simply has allowed it to exist as we created it.

Americans evidently prefer this system, despite the fact that Canadians and British people perhaps don't. Of course, we like Monster Truck Rallies too. :)

[FayeW]

The government didn't create the system. We The People created the system, long before the government stuck its nose into things like that. The government simply has allowed it to exist as we created it.

Americans evidently prefer this system, despite the fact that Canadians and British people perhaps don't. Of course, we like Monster Truck Rallies too. :)

Well, then, the people were idiots.

But your (state) governments legalized the practice.

It's not a matter of Canadians or Brits preferring one system, and Americans preferring another. It is evidently the only system that you know, and, much like UHC, you (the general American population) are so afraid of how changes will effect you that you are unwilling to make changes that would be positive to others.

I think America is the only country that has this practice relying on gratuities to subsidize the hourly wage. If the rest of the civilized world can do it, why can't you?

[bicker]

Well, then, the people were idiots.Very nice. :sad2:

I think America is the only country that has this practice relying on gratuities to subsidize the hourly wage. If the rest of the civilized world can do it, why can't you?Your assumption is wrong, but beyond that, your question assumes that your way is correct. That's not the case. Read my earlier message AGAIN. Our way is actually better from our standpoint.

I could ask: If we can operate our system our way, why can't you? The issues we have in this country is just a matter of a few isolated bits of dishonor... the vast majority of people do what they should. I'm confident that in your country people would be honorable enough to participate in a patron-dominated compensation system for servers, just like ours. I think the system would work fine there, if that was how things worked out.

[Mackey Mouse]

I am stepping in here just for a second to say that we cannot battle each other opinion's based on where we come from.....it tends to bring out the worst in people..

Please let's continue the conversation and try to remember that some who go to WDW and dine are from other countries and some of us dine and are from America......we can agree to disagree.. but please keep it nice.

[FayeW]

Very nice. :sad2:

Your assumption is wrong, but beyond that, your question assumes that your way is correct. That's not the case. Read my earlier message AGAIN. Our way is actually better.

If we can operate our system our way, why can't you? The issues we have in this country is just a matter of a few isolated bits of dishonor... the vast majority of people do what they should. I cannot believe that you're saying that in your country people wouldn't be honorable enough to participate in a patron-dominated compensation system for servers. I know some Canadians. They do have honor, and I think the system would work fine there, if that was how things worked out.

Your system isn't better. Your wait staff are paid a pittance, far less than minimum wage. They rely on the largess of strangers to survive. I worked in the restaurant industry for more than 10 years as a university student/young adult. At least my hourly wage could pay my rent.

[bicker]

As Mackey said, we can agree to disagree. Reasonable people can prefer our system, and reasonable people can prefer your system. They're both valid.

The real issue, therefore, is that when here, our rules apply, just like when we are there, their rules apply.

[Mackey Mouse]

"The real issue, therefore, is that when here, our rules apply, just like when we are there, their rules apply."

Good point, Bicker...you do not have to like it, but when on someone else's turf, you should abide by their rules.. Makes me think of when I went to London, waiting and waiting and waiting to be served or to be acknowledged when just trying to buy a cup of tea. I thought to myself, well if they were working for tips, they would indeed try to turn over the table or acknowledge me when standing at the counter...but it was their country, so I learned lots of patience or I went without. Different strokes for different folks.

[bicker]

The one that I had the most trouble with was in Egypt, having to give “baksheesh” for one or two squares of toilet tissue in the bathroom (even though we brought our own with us).

[Mackey Mouse]

When I visited Monaco.....I was surprised, but prepared for the bathroom situation and paying for TP.. I also had my own with me.. This was on the grounds of the Grimaldi castle, I was a bit surprised, but once again and a bit off topic, their rules. You either tipped or you got no TP.

[mousehouselover]

I tip - and with that out of the way - I don't understand why it's based on the total amount of your bill???

Shouldn't it be based on the amount of dishes / courses / ppl you have?


I don't understand how it happened and I dont agree with it either. If it were never established as common practice, we wouldn't be fighting each other over who pays how much or judging people for what the choose to leave.

restaurants would be required BY LAW to pay their servers at least minimum wage --

They still are. If a servers tips are not enough for that person to make an average of the Fed min wage for the pay period, the employer has to pay extra to make up for it.

I am so with you here!! Just because a server is lucky enough to work in a special restaurant with high priced entrees should not mean that he/she is automatically entitled to a bigger tip....

AMEN!!!

If you go to a restaurant that costs considerably more for meal, you as a consumer can rightfully expect that the quality, ingredients, and presentation of your meal -- and the service -- will be something more than what you would get at an inexpensive eatery. That is why you would pay more to eat there in the first place. Not always the case, but if a restaurant charges more, they are expected to offer more (not more quantity, but more quality).

So if I go to the teppyanaki tables at the Japan pavillion, my meal should be better quality and I should have a better chef than I would get here at home because I pay $10-$20 more for the same meal there and I should tip 18% based on the total cost of the food. Sadly, my meal wasn't better and I didn't get a better chef or presentation than I do at home. The tip was still 18% because that is the automatic gratuity added to my meal.

The saddest thing is, food quality and presentation is going down in almost all restaruants but the cost of the meals are going up so we are paying more for less. It may not be the server's fault if the manager/owner/corp purchaser cuts costs by ordering lower quality food. Her tip will reflect the overall enjoyment of the meal, even if she can't control several factors that go into the outcome.

[bicker]

So if I go to the teppyanaki tables at the Japan pavillion, my meal should be better quality and I should have a better chef than I would get here at home because I pay $10-$20 more for the same meal there and I should tip 18% based on the total cost of the food. Sadly, my meal wasn't better and I didn't get a better chef or presentation than I do at home.Katie's list of factors was not complete. The most important factor, for WDW restaurants, is LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION. The number of people who walk by the front of a restaurant is a major contributor to the menu price. Whispering Canyon is far better IMHO than Liberty Tree Tavern, but is generally a lot better value for the price paid, because more people walk through Frontierland than walk through the atrium of the Wilderness Lodge.

I've used a rule-of-thumb that, on average, about 35% of the price you pay at WDW is for the location. As I pointed out with the Liberty Tree Tavern versus Whispering Canyon example, even THAT will vary.

I don't know which restaurant near your home you're referring to, so I'll use one here in MA. Hibachi Steak runs $18.95 at a restaurant near here that is comparable to Teppan Edo (FWIR -- I haven't been there since the re-do). So Teppan Edo runs about $6 more or 31% more. Therefore, using the 35% I mentioned as an average, I'd expect the food quality and service to be a little better at the local restaurant here than at the higher priced Teppan Edo.

[FayeW]

Interesting theory, Bicker, but it does not appear that you are calculating that guests of Teppan Edo have already paid for the location with their park admission.

[bicker]

Because people can visit Epcot without going to a restaurant, Faye. Your admission does nothing with regard to paying for the convenience of the food you purchase there.

And that goes for souvenirs as well. We typically purchase chopsticks at Japan, for a heck of a lot more than we can purchase the same exact set of chopsticks locally here. :shrug:

[FayeW]

Because people can visit Epcot without going to a restaurant, Faye. Your admission does nothing with regard to paying for the convenience of the food you purchase there.

And that goes for souvenirs as well. We typically purchase chopsticks at Japan, for a heck of a lot more than we can purchase the same exact set of chopsticks locally here. :shrug:

Yes. But they can't visit the restaurant without paying for admission to Epcot. Ergo, they have already paid a hefty premium for the location of said restaurant.

[Katiebell]

It's true that I did not factor in location. A steak in Manhattan will cost more than a comparable steak in Laramie, WY. My comparison considered location being equal -- a steak at a coffee shop in your hometown for $10 vs a steak at a steakhouse in your hometown for $40. You expect the quality, ingredients, side dishes, atmosphere, service -- everything -- to be better when you purchase that $40 steak. Otherwise, the restaurant doesn't live up to their reputation, and no one will go there.

Location being equal...hmm. OK, you expect more from a burger at Le Cellier:
Grilled Steak Burger topped with homemade onion ketchup and your choice of cheddar or blue cheese $12.49

than a burger at Liberty Inn:
Bacon Double Cheeseburger Meal served with apple slices or fries, includes "Fixin's Bar" $7.39

You expect more from the sushi at California Grill, a signature restaurant:
"Snake in the Grass" - Shrimp Tempura with Avocado, Eel, and Cucumber $22
Double-Crunch Rainbow Roll - cobia, salmon, tuna, tempuracrunch, and tobikko $19

than from the sushi at Teppan Edo:
Sushi Sampler - tuna, yellow tail, shrimp nigiri, 2 piece California Roll $8.00


At the more expensive restaurants, you are paying for the atmosphere, the quality, the variety, the service, and the reputation -- and if it doesn't live up to all that, then you aren't going to go pay the higher prices there ever again :confused3

WDW is another world entirely, literally. You are on vacation, all prices are high, you want to just have fun and not think about how much it's really costing you. So you'll pay $20 for a CS meal that you could get for $10 outside of Disney. And it's less than a $40 TS meal, so it's a "bargain". But you wouldn't be able to enjoy the scenery and the Disney "vibe", and you wouldn't have the convenience of being able to eat and continue with your touring plan with a minimum of interruption. And people are willing to pay for that, or everyone would just leave and eat off property.

[bicker]

Yes. But they can't visit the restaurant without paying for admission to Epcot. Ergo, they have already paid a hefty premium for the location of said restaurant.By that logic, everyone who visits Epcot and doesn't go to a restaurant is getting ripped off. That logic doesn't hold water. The admission fee doesn't include any premium for the restaurant meals you may eat there.

[Jakesmom1]

ok,just my 2 cents.

I have been a waitress for many years, and I have always believed that a T.I.P. was an abreviation for "To Insure Prompt service".

I have always made a good living as a waitress including my tips, because I enjoy what I do, and make the diners feel comfortable and happy. (there is an occasional diner that will never be happy,:lmao: )

My dh says I always over tip, however, if the service is lacking, I have been know to either leave a small or no tip at all.

Do I feel bad, absolutely not, A job well done deserves extra, a job done poorly, deserves the $3.00 an hour they are making.

[FayeW]

By that logic, everyone who visits Epcot and doesn't go to a restaurant is getting ripped off. That logic doesn't hold water. The admission fee doesn't include any premium for the restaurant meals you may eat there.

It was your logic, not mine, and I agree that your logic doesn't hold water. You said that 35% of what you paid for a meal at WDW was because of the location. Your example was that since the meal at Teppan Edo was only 31% higher in price than your local eatery, it was a bargain (because you would have expected it to be at least 35% more because of the location). I merely pointed out that since the guests dining in WDW restaurants located inside one of the the theme parks had already paid a premium for dining at that particular location (because theme park admission was required in order to dine there) one could argue that the prices for dining could be even lower, as the price for the location had already been paid!

I will also make the assumption that the ticket price is determined by the number and variety of amenities you will find in that park to enjoy, including rides, characters, shows, retail outlets, counter service and table service for all guests to enjoy.

[bicker]

I've explained twice the failure of your logic, specifically that the admission does not include a premium for the meals you may choose to have at Epcot. I'm sorry you didn't understand. :(

[kaytieeldr]

I have been a waitress for many years, and I have always believed that a T.I.P. was an abreviation for "To Insure Prompt service". Except that, for this afternym to be valid, the "tip" would have to be given BEFORE any service started.

Actually, the word tip originated somewhere in the seventeenth century or so, probably with German roots.

[cmwade77]

Actually a tip in incentive for the server to treat you well on subsequent visits, if they got a low tip, then they know they need to improve, if they got a large tip they know they treated you well and you did the same and will do the same the next time around.

[FayeW]

I've explained twice the failure of your logic, specifically that the admission does not include a premium for the meals you may choose to have at Epcot. I'm sorry you didn't understand. :(

But it does. The very fact that table service options exist in Epcot, or any of the themeparks, is a contributing factor to the value assigned to the price of admission.

There are many rides, shows, attractions, shops and eateries that I may choose not to patronize during my visit. The fact that I choose not to partake of them doesn't change the fact that part of my admission goes to pay for them to be available to everyone else. I'm sorry you don't understand.

[mickey2000]

But it does. The very fact that table service options exist in Epcot, or any of the themeparks, is a contributing factor to the value assigned to the price of admission.

There are many rides, shows, attractions, shops and eateries that I may choose not to patronize during my visit. The fact that I choose not to partake of them doesn't change the fact that part of my admission goes to pay for them to be available to everyone else. I'm sorry you don't understand.

I agree with your logic! If I want to eat at France they will require a ticket.

[kaytieeldr]

You have to use park admission media to enter any park.
You have to enter a park to eat at an in-park restaurant.
You do not have to eat at an in-park restaurant, despite being in the park.
bicker's point holds.

[themudd4]

To a degree both are right. Location is everything and Disney gets ya twice...You have to pay for the location with your park admission and you are also paying higher in the restaurant...But I think we have drifted away from the point at hand.

But just to try and be a peace maker...LOL (yea right) Everyone has there own opionion on how to tip, and how much. No one is going to change their opion based on these discussion boards. You may have a few honest intentions when an OP asks a question but you are also going to have ppl on here that LOVE to debate no matter the subject. Just agree to dissagree and tip as how you see fit. You opinion is the only one that should matter to you!:dance3: :rolleyes1 :hug:

[Katiebell]

To a degree both are right. Location is everything and Disney gets ya twice...You have to pay for the location with your park admission and you are also paying higher in the restaurant...But I think we have drifted away from the point at hand.

But just to try and be a peace maker...LOL (yea right) Everyone has there own opionion on how to tip, and how much. No one is going to change their opion based on these discussion boards. You may have a few honest intentions when an OP asks a question but you are also going to have ppl on here that LOVE to debate no matter the subject. Just agree to dissagree and tip as how you see fit. You opinion is the only one that should matter to you!:dance3: :rolleyes1 :hug:

No way! What in the heck are you talking about??? Where did you come up with such a ridiculous idea??? I totally disagree!!!

:rolleyes1

:rotfl2:

Seriously...*ahem*...you've made some great points. And of course they are great points because *I* agree with you :laughing:

The way I was thinking about it...if you paid park admission to Epcot JUST to eat at a restaurant there, then you would be paying for the location. But you don't -- you pay park admission to see the shows, ride the rides. see the exhibits, and basically experience Disney. BUT...part of that Disney experience we expect is to eat in those restaurants -- fun and silly restaurants like PT 50's, character meals like the Plaza, or fine dining like Bistro de Paris. Would guests pay the same admission price if the only food they could buy in the parks at WDW was hot dogs and popcorn? Well, it's not quite that dismal (they have Dole Whips, Mickey Bars, and the Main Street Bakery!), but guests aren't paying to get in the parks just to eat at a particular restaurant. They eat at the restaurants in the parks because they enhance the overall total Disney experience. And it's more convenient than to leave and find someplace outside the parks to eat that might be cheaper or better quality -- especially if they don't have transportation or aren't familiar with the Orlando area.

For a matter of comparison, I believe we pay about the same admission for DL, and there are no in-park restaurants that we absolutely must do. We usually end up eating at the hotel and DTD.

And at WDW, aren't virtually all of the signature restaurants outside the parks, and no admission is required to eat there (CG, FF, Jiko...)? You can even go to a character meal at CM's or the 'Ohana breakfast without setting foot in a park or paying admission.

[carmie3377]

Does anyone know if you can use a Disney gift card or Disney Rewards Visa card to pay for the tip or is it only cash or credit?

This is buried underneath all the arguments. It is a simple question I would like to know as well. I don't want the tip charged to my room key or credit card but I don't want to carry around a bunch of cash either. Anyone have any experience with this???

Now, I must add to all the arguments :goodvibes
If I told my server I was going to pay the tip in cash and they stood over me waiting for me to fill in the amount, I would leave a tip, but it would be much smaller than I had originally planned. I don't care the situation, it is very RUDE. There are polite ways to get around this. DH was a server in college. Yes, he got stiffed many times. However, that didn't make him go stand over the next customer to make sure he got a tip. We will tip good for good service. I will also tip very poorly for poor service. Tipping good for poor service is simply telling the server to "keep doing what your doing".

[themudd4]

This is buried underneath all the arguments. It is a simple question I would like to know as well. I don't want the tip charged to my room key or credit card but I don't want to carry around a bunch of cash either. Anyone have any experience with this???

Now, I must add to all the arguments :goodvibes
If I told my server I was going to pay the tip in cash and they stood over me waiting for me to fill in the amount, I would leave a tip, but it would be much smaller than I had originally planned. I don't care the situation, it is very RUDE. There are polite ways to get around this. DH was a server in college. Yes, he got stiffed many times. However, that didn't make him go stand over the next customer to make sure he got a tip. We will tip good for good service. I will also tip very poorly for poor service. Tipping good for poor service is simply telling the server to "keep doing what your doing".

Yes, you can use Disney Dollars, & in most places you can use Disney Gift Cards. Someone also mentioned Rewards visa...This is a credit card...it might be just as easy to use it to back the KTTWC.

[Davey-D-99]

Just returned last week from our first week on the DDP...Loved it and had no real issue with tips until I retuned home and thought more about it.

I always wrote down the amount they left on the bill as a suggested 18% tip and charged it on my KTTW card. Never really thought twice about it.

It hardly feels right to me now that I would have tipped the waitress considerably more at Le Cellier than I did at say Sci-Fi simply because my bill would have been more at Le Cellier (more expensive meal). I received much better service at Sci-Fi than I did at Le Cellier but I left them less. That's wrong now that I think about it...:sad2:

[OneTreeHillAddict]

Someone also mentioned Rewards visa...This is a credit card...it might be just as easy to use it to back the KTTWC.

I think they were referring to the blue card that has your reward dollars on it. A lot of people cash those rewards out and take them to Disney. It's like a gift card so it should work the same?

[Belle4mygrl]

I don't like tipping unless the service is great but yet I am made to feel bad when I say "I don't like to tip." For instance, I know I will get tomatoes thrown at me. ;) We all have our differences.

when we sold our house we had an excellent agent. We tried to tip her but she had to return the $$ because of ethics. she even copied the paper, highlighted the statement, and clipped the cash onto it.

I am a RN. I have never been tipped for standing on my feet all day with no lunch breaks, wiping up your vomit, or running after your cokes or food. I have been to fast food places and they aren't allowed to take tips.

Is tipping for servers a customary thing and no ethics are involved. I am just trying to understand the tipping and why we MUST tip servers. many other jobs are just as demanding and tiring. :confused:

[Disney8704]

I agree that most other jobs are just as if not more damanding and tiring. From I have heard (from my sister's sister-in-law who is also a RN at a hospital) most Drs and nurses work at least 12 hrs a day. Some even pull double's. Do they get tipped for doing surgerys and taking care of their patients - no. Teachers - do they get tipped for teaching your child, no. Me (Im a wedding a planner), do I get tipped for my services and doing a job well done, no. DH he's in the air force, does he get tipped for going over to the desert for 4 months defending our country which is WAY more tiring and stressful then any waiter job, no. Do we all make decent money - yes. It all boils down to what the servers make. Its all because they only make $2-$3 an hr that we feel that we should tip them. If they made at least minimum wage, we wouldnt be as tempted to tip them. Would they still get tips, probably, but not as many. Dont worry you might get flamed by others for not liking to tip, but you wont get any flames from me. I for one HATE tipping. But I still tip. To me I feel that I shouldnt have to give mine and DHs hard earned money to servers. They should be able to make their money from their employer. Not from the customers.

I don't like tipping unless the service is great but yet I am made to feel bad when I say "I don't like to tip." For instance, I know I will get tomatoes thrown at me. ;) We all have our differences.

when we sold our house we had an excellent agent. We tried to tip her but she had to return the $$ because of ethics. she even copied the paper, highlighted the statement, and clipped the cash onto it.

I am a RN. I have never been tipped for standing on my feet all day with no lunch breaks, wiping up your vomit, or running after your cokes or food. I have been to fast food places and they aren't allowed to take tips.

Is tipping for servers a customary thing and no ethics are involved. I am just trying to understand the tipping and why we MUST tip servers. many other jobs are just as demanding and tiring. :confused:

[kaytieeldr]

Is tipping for servers a customary thing and no ethics are involved. I am just trying to understand the tipping and why we MUST tip servers. many other jobs are just as demanding and tiring. In those many other jobs, the employee is paid a wage satisfactory to both the employer and employee. Waiting tables in a restaurant does not.

If teachers and nurses were paid $3 an hour or less, as regulated by the United States government, then, yeah, people availing themselves of those services would be aware of that and could/would be welcome to reward the employee monetarily, based on perceived value.

As a matter of fact, you CAN tip a teacher or nurse - if not with actual dollar bills, then with gift cards, etc.

Is tipping for servers a customary thing and no ethics are involved. I am just trying to understand the tipping and why we MUST tip servers. many other jobs are just as demanding and tiring. Dining in a restaurant is not a right, it's a privilege/choice. Nobody HAS to tip - being FULLY aware that tipping is PART OF THE COST of dining out, one can simply choose not to spend ANY of one's hard-earned money to sit down in a restaurant and have one or more persons kowtow to you.

[DiszyDean]

I hate paying taxes.

I hate paying my electric bill each month.

I hate having to pay almost $4 per gallon for gas.

All that being said, in order to function in society, I still have to do all of these things. I use electricity, gas and public amenities.

It really doesn't matter how hard I work or what job I have or what teachers and firemen make, I still have to pay those bills for services rendered. I think I pay too much for all of it, but at the end of the day, they still need to be paid and unlike tipping, none of it is really discretionary based on the level of service I think I am receiving.

Tipping servers is part of the cost of eating at a sit down resteraunt. Don't like it? Thats fine...lots of decent counter service meals to be had where you do not need to worry about it. Going to a resteraunt and not tipping for good service is just socially wrong. People can try to sell the excuses all day long and blame the resteraunts for making us subsidize the servers wages, but that is just the way it is and the way it will continue to be. It is not going away any more than paying taxes is going away.

The good news is, to remain an acceptable member of society who will not tip, you do have choices, stay home or eat fast food.

[Belle4mygrl]

Thanks for not throwing tomatoes at me. :goodvibes I really was wanting to understand the reasoning of tipping. If you notice I said "i don't like to tip" not that I don't.

Thanks for those point of views.

[Katiebell]

when we sold our house we had an excellent agent. We tried to tip her but she had to return the $$ because of ethics. she even copied the paper, highlighted the statement, and clipped the cash onto it.

I am a RN. I have never been tipped for standing on my feet all day with no lunch breaks, wiping up your vomit, or running after your cokes or food. I have been to fast food places and they aren't allowed to take tips.

Is tipping for servers a customary thing and no ethics are involved. I am just trying to understand the tipping and why we MUST tip servers. many other jobs are just as demanding and tiring. :confused:

Real estate agents and RNs, like almost every single job in this country, get paid a fair living wage. Restaurant servers do not. Federal law allows them to be paid $2-$3 per hour for one reason only: they make tips. It is the accepted custom of our society that servers are tipped, and the assumption of the Federal government that they will be tipped enough not only to make a living but also pay taxes on those tips.

Other jobs can definitely be as demanding and tiring, but the workers are paid fairly for their work -- at least minimum wage. Tips are part of a servers wages and they are taxed on them. The only thing really messed up about the system is that the wages of a server are not just dependent on how good they are or how hard they work. They also depend on how generous or how decent the people they are serving are. Some folks may not like this, but now that I've really considered it after all of these tipping threads, I think the main thing really wrong with our system is that tipping is not a mandatory base percent. It's part of their wages, it's not guaranteed, it's at the whim or discretion of the customer, but they are taxed on it. So...a mandatory base tip of 12-15% would be virtually the same thing as a service charge, or a 12-15% increase on the menu price, and would cover the server's legal tax liability. Then if a patron wished to tip over and above based on service, they could do so if they wished.

It all boils down to what the servers make. Its all because they only make $2-$3 an hr that we feel that we should tip them.

Because they make $2-$3 an hour, we are expected to tip them. It is part of their pay. If they were not tipped, they would have to make at least minimum wage and menu prices would be considerably higher. So we would be paying for it either way -- but if menu prices went up, it would no longer be the customer's choice. Unless they just stopped going out to eat.


If they made at least minimum wage, we wouldnt be as tempted to tip them.

If they made only minimum wage, they wouldn't take a job as a server. It's too much work for that kind of pay. Fast food workers get minimum wage, and there is a very low level of service expected there. But at least you don't have to tip them.

[Disneyonmymind]

So let me get this right, because we WILL be paying cash for all of our tips. When they take your KTTW card to deduct the credits, they ASK for the tip/cash then???? You don't just leave it like you would when you are finished and stand up to leave? Please only respond if you have done this, not only if you are assuming, btw.

I didn't read the rest of the thread so I apologize if this has been covered. We just returned from a trip using the DDP and here's what I did and worked very well. In each case, the bill was brought in a vinyl folder. The bill shows the total amount less the credits used. The balance will equal any extras like alcohol. At the bottom is the suggested tip of 18% and 20%. The server leaves the folder and says she'll come back for it. I gave the folder back to her with my kid's KTTW card (that has no charging privileges to avoid mistakes) and enough cash to cover the extras and the tip. I told her "here's your tip" or "this includes your tip" so everything was very clear.

Since I gave the suggested tip amount, they always seemed pleased and returned with my card and my receipt. I would never leave the cash on the table at WDW. It can be very chaotic and there are too many unscrupulous people in the world (sorry for negativity ).

[carmie3377]

I gave the folder back to her with my kid's KTTW card (that has no charging privileges to avoid mistakes) and enough cash to cover the extras and the tip.

That's a great idea. I've been worried that they might charge the meal to my card instead of using credits and then it would be a real pain to get it straight. But this would definitely keep that from happening. Thanks for passing the tip on!

[Disney8704]

Why wouldnt they? Minimum wage here in delaware is over $7 an hr. Thats pretty good if they work full time. Thats $280 a week for 40 hours. Not including if they worked over time. I used to be a cashier and customer service rep. and I only got paid $6.50 a hr and that was it. Was my job easy? :lmao: I WISH IT WAS EASY. I to had to wait on customers, got yelled at by customers even though it wasnt my fault. The only difference between me at the time and a waitress was I made more and I wasnt serving them food but ringing up their merchandise, doing lawaway (which at times I had to lift 50 or more lbs BY MYSELF), and doing returns. I dont see waitresses lifting 50 lbs or more. But I was on my feet all day just like a waitress. So are you gonna try to tell me that a waitress works even harder then I did? My feet felt like they wanted to fall off everyday. There were days I had to bounce back and forth between cashier and customer service all day AND pulled a 13 hr shift on top of it. I was working the equivelent (sp?) of a manager around that store. But did that make me more money? No it didnt. I did the job though because it did bring home money to pay bills and put food on the table. And then once I met DH and we got engaged, I quit my job because he couldnt bare to see me come home everyday in pain and crying and I was also part of a lawsuit and won a lot of money. So therefor I knew I was covered until I graduated from college and get my wedding planning degree. Point is, is that if a waitress is making a minimum wage and they needed a job bad enough, they will take it. There would still be times they would also get tips and they would also get a yearly raise.

If they made only minimum wage, they wouldn't take a job as a server. It's too much work for that kind of pay. Fast food workers get minimum wage, and there is a very low level of service expected there. But at least you don't have to tip them.

[mom2my3kids]

I don't like tipping unless the service is great but yet I am made to feel bad when I say "I don't like to tip." For instance, I know I will get tomatoes thrown at me. ;) We all have our differences.

when we sold our house we had an excellent agent. We tried to tip her but she had to return the $$ because of ethics. she even copied the paper, highlighted the statement, and clipped the cash onto it.

I am a RN. I have never been tipped for standing on my feet all day with no lunch breaks, wiping up your vomit, or running after your cokes or food. I have been to fast food places and they aren't allowed to take tips.

Is tipping for servers a customary thing and no ethics are involved. I am just trying to understand the tipping and why we MUST tip servers. many other jobs are just as demanding and tiring. :confused:

That is the way the system is set up, we make 2.13 a hour and the rest comes from tipping with good service. I don't know who ever made it up years and years ago but its the way it works. You get good service you tip, you get bad service you don't tip. I guess it insures good service, but some people get good service and don't tip and that is another story..

[mom2my3kids]

I agree that most other jobs are just as if not more damanding and tiring. From I have heard (from my sister's sister-in-law who is also a RN at a hospital) most Drs and nurses work at least 12 hrs a day. Some even pull double's. Do they get tipped for doing surgerys and taking care of their patients - no. Teachers - do they get tipped for teaching your child, no. Me (Im a wedding a planner), do I get tipped for my services and doing a job well done, no. DH he's in the air force, does he get tipped for going over to the desert for 4 months defending our country which is WAY more tiring and stressful then any waiter job, no. Do we all make decent money - yes. It all boils down to what the servers make. Its all because they only make $2-$3 an hr that we feel that we should tip them. If they made at least minimum wage, we wouldnt be as tempted to tip them. Would they still get tips, probably, but not as many. Dont worry you might get flamed by others for not liking to tip, but you wont get any flames from me. I for one HATE tipping. But I still tip. To me I feel that I shouldnt have to give mine and DHs hard earned money to servers. They should be able to make their money from their employer. Not from the customers.

Lets see Dr's get paid DARN GOOD MONEY, teachers made GOOD MONEY.. My doctor makes millions of dollars a year not 2.13 a hour. Please find something else to compare to then a server. Rn's around here in my home town make at least 18-30 dollars a hour not to shabby compared to my 8-10 dollar a hour average I make and I live in a small town. Do I complain they make to much money for what they do, NO to me it does not matter what people make as long as they are doing their job well. You can not like tipping all you want, but its the way our society works. And the money I make is hard earned money, maybe you should take on a server job and maybe you would know what its like to be server and people trashing you saying you don't do a thing..:mad: Also I don't understand why people need a wedding planner, just do it yourself and save money. Heck I am sure you don't make a fraction of what wedding planners make in New York and California where they can make hundreds of thousands of dollars off one wedding, but does that make you any less of a wedding planner. Think about it!!!

[nicolemomof4cuties]

Apparently two concessions were made by Disney when they removed the tip from the plan: DDE members and parties of 6 or more (used to be 8) got an automatic 18%.

I hate to say this but we are a family of 6 and if we got bad service ( like we did at Mrakesh on the DDP 1 1/2 yrs ago) I would talk to a manager and get out of the automatic gratuity. I refuse to pay for bad service..... free or not. We love Marakesh but this guy was a real ...... turd. BTY, we are usually 20% tippers.

[nicolemomof4cuties]

Lets see Dr's get paid DARN GOOD MONEY, teachers made GOOD MONEY.. My doctor makes millions of dollars a year not 2.13 a hour. Please find something else to compare to then a server. Rn's around here in my home town make at least 18-30 dollars a hour not to shabby compared to my 8-10 dollar a hour average I make and I live in a small town. Do I complain they make to much money for what they do, NO to me it does not matter what people make as long as they are doing their job well. You can not like tipping all you want, but its the way our society works. And the money I make is hard earned money, maybe you should take on a server job and maybe you would know what its like to be server and people trashing you saying you don't do a thing..:mad: Also I don't understand why people need a wedding planner, just do it yourself and save money. Heck I am sure you don't make a fraction of what wedding planners make in New York and California where they can make hundreds of thousands of dollars off one wedding, but does that make you any less of a wedding planner. Think about it!!!

:woohoo: Thank you!! My DH waits tables as his 2nd job and it is alot harder than people think. He works 8 hour days at a desk job and then goes straight to TGI's at 6 pm and works until 12 am or 1:30 am Mon- Fri. He also works Saturdays 4 pm- 12am/1:30 am. It is very hard to find a good paying job in our area even though he has a degree :sad2: :guilty: . So he is working his hiney off. People write in or call in commendations about how nice and attentive he is at least once a week though-:thumbsup2 :love: . You know what he has noticed though? The people that don't think that they should tip are almost always the people that run the servers ragged and have crazy orders. He is always super nice to them anyway but the other servers basically have the scarlet letter painted on certain customers.....

[nicolemomof4cuties]

I am a RN. I have never been tipped for standing on my feet all day with no lunch breaks, wiping up your vomit, or running after your cokes or food. I have been to fast food places and they aren't allowed to take tips.

:

We have always left thank you cards for our fave RN's and small Thank you gift bags..... especially in OB. I had the same nurse with all 4 kids because she INSISTED , :) :hug: She is great... She even remembered all of my children's names when they visited their new siblings...:flower3:

[nicolemomof4cuties]

ok,just my 2 cents.
Do I feel bad, absolutely not, A job well done deserves extra, a job done poorly, deserves the $3.00 an hour they are making.

:worship: :worship:
My DH and I agree with this TOTALLY and we both have waited tables in the past and right now he does because of finances for awhile...

[mom2my3kids]

We have always left thank you cards for our fave RN's and small Thank you gift bags..... especially in OB. I had the same nurse with all 4 kids because she INSISTED , :) :hug: She is great... She even remembered all of my children's names when they visited their new siblings...:flower3:
I also gave a gift card to my OB Nurse to show my appreciation..

[Disney8704]

Obviously you didnt read the post I was replying to. The poster I was replying to is a RN and she was asking why should she have to tip when she worked just as hard as a server (IMHO she works even harder then a server). I never said servers dont do a thing. But they dont so much that their job is harder then a professional job. You dont understand why people need a wedding planner? I'll tell you why people need a wedding planner. Couple reasons, 1 - because they dont no the 1st thing about planning a wedding, 2 - because they dont have the TIME to plan a wedding and 3 - even though they might have the time and may know how, they want someone to take care of any problems that may rise up before and during the wedding. No bride wants to be stressed during her wedding reception taking care of problems when she can be off having a good time. You wouldnt believe what kind of issues I have had to deal with. And every single time something happens, no one knows except for me and for the people Im working with. Sorta like a behind the scenes issue. Just because I dont live in NY doesnt mean I dont make good money. In my 1st year of doing weddings which was 2 yrs ago, I made $50,000. And it was a combination of military weddings and civilan weddings. Now that word has gotten around about my services, just last year I made $70,000 which is the national average how much wedding planners do make. You dont know how much wedding planners do make. Your not a wedding planner. No wedding planner makes hundreds of thousands of dollars off 1 wedding. At most a wedding planner might make $10,000 off 1 wedding, regardless where they live. And then it also all depends how many weddings they do. A lot of wedding planners do 1 wedding a time. Once they are done with 1 wedding, then they move onto the next. So at most they could have just a couple weddings a yr. However, with me, Im constantly doing weddings. I dont focus just on 1 wedding at a time. Infact currently right now Im doing 5 weddings and Im sure I will get more as the yr rolls on.

Lets see Dr's get paid DARN GOOD MONEY, teachers made GOOD MONEY.. My doctor makes millions of dollars a year not 2.13 a hour. Please find something else to compare to then a server. Rn's around here in my home town make at least 18-30 dollars a hour not to shabby compared to my 8-10 dollar a hour average I make and I live in a small town. Do I complain they make to much money for what they do, NO to me it does not matter what people make as long as they are doing their job well. You can not like tipping all you want, but its the way our society works. And the money I make is hard earned money, maybe you should take on a server job and maybe you would know what its like to be server and people trashing you saying you don't do a thing..:mad: Also I don't understand why people need a wedding planner, just do it yourself and save money. Heck I am sure you don't make a fraction of what wedding planners make in New York and California where they can make hundreds of thousands of dollars off one wedding, but does that make you any less of a wedding planner. Think about it!!!

[Belle4mygrl]

We have always left thank you cards for our fave RN's and small Thank you gift bags..... especially in OB. I had the same nurse with all 4 kids because she INSISTED , :) :hug: She is great... She even remembered all of my children's names when they visited their new siblings...:flower3:

You are a one in a million , I believe. :hug:

I just have a hard time of wondering why servers MUST be tipped and why it is expected. I guess I am mad at the restaurants for not paying their workers and the servers are expected to get their income from the patrons.

Like I said, I don't like to tip but I do. I tip very generously when I have great service and that I don't mind. It is the mentality that "they work hard, they stand on their feet all day, they clean up after you". Is that their job just like anyone else's? Just saying.

[carmie3377]

Lets see Dr's get paid DARN GOOD MONEY, teachers made GOOD MONEY.. My doctor makes millions of dollars a year not 2.13 a hour.

No Doctors DO NOT make millions of dollars a year. Yes, a few of the cosmetic doctors do, but most doctors get paid MUCH less than 1M a year. Some of them don't even pull in six digits. Yes, it is still good money, but it's not what a lot people think. Figure in the six figure debt they incur, the amount of time of lost income (in med school it's very hard to work), the countless sleepless nights, the lives that they save, they lives that they improve. You CAN NOT compare a doctor to a waitress in terms of income. Yes, doctors make much better money, but think of the education and responsibility involved.

As far as teachers, again, they shouldn't be compared. If you ask me, teachers don't make enough money. Maybe if they did, that would encourage people to pursue a career in education that otherwise wouldn't due to the money.

EDUCATION and RESPONSIBILITY! Those play a big factor in pay. I know many servers are educated because they can make more money waiting tables than what their degree is in. I'm not saying that servers aren't smart or responsible. What I am saying is "Are servers required to have 8 years of education and AT LEAST 4 additional years of training?" NO. "Do servers have someone's life in their hand?" NO. "Do servers have to have 4 years of education like teachers?" NO. Do servers have the future of our children in their hands?" NO.

We do tip. I feel the servers deserve it - at least most of them. Personally I would rather tip than to have a 15-18% automatic "surcharge" added to my bill or have higher menu items. That encourages a server to do their job well. I just don't understand why people must bring in unrelated careers such as doctors and teachers.

[mom2my3kids]

Obviously you didnt read the post I was replying to. The poster I was replying to is a RN and she was asking why should she have to tip when she worked just as hard as a server (IMHO she works even harder then a server). I never said servers dont do a thing. But they dont so much that their job is harder then a professional job. You dont understand why people need a wedding planner? I'll tell you why people need a wedding planner. Couple reasons, 1 - because they dont no the 1st thing about planning a wedding, 2 - because they dont have the TIME to plan a wedding and 3 - even though they might have the time and may know how, they want someone to take care of any problems that may rise up before and during the wedding. No bride wants to be stressed during her wedding reception taking care of problems when she can be off having a good time. You wouldnt believe what kind of issues I have had to deal with. And every single time something happens, no one knows except for me and for the people Im working with. Sorta like a behind the scenes issue. Just because I dont live in NY doesnt mean I dont make good money. In my 1st year of doing weddings which was 2 yrs ago, I made $50,000. And it was a combination of military weddings and civilan weddings. Now that word has gotten around about my services, just last year I made $70,000 which is the national average how much wedding planners do make. You dont know how much wedding planners do make. Your not a wedding planner. No wedding planner makes hundreds of thousands of dollars off 1 wedding. At most a wedding planner might make $10,000 off 1 wedding, regardless where they live. And then it also all depends how many weddings they do. A lot of wedding planners do 1 wedding a time. Once they are done with 1 wedding, then they move onto the next. So at most they could have just a couple weddings a yr. However, with me, Im constantly doing weddings. I dont focus just on 1 wedding at a time. Infact currently right now Im doing 5 weddings and Im sure I will get more as the yr rolls on.

Actually some very high priced wedding planners make VERY GOOD MONEY! Just ask the planners who do weddings for movie stars and millionaires. 70,000 a year planning weddings, maybe I should get into that field heck I planned my own wedding 15 years ago and didn't do to shabby..It does not feel good having someone dog on your job does it?? I won't argue that nurses work hard, its just different jobs I won't compare.

[Disney8704]

And not to mention the LONGGGGGGGGG hours they have to pull sometimes. Sometimes they pull a 24 hr, 48 hr maybe even more then that shifts. That poster you are replying to is over exagerating everything. Drs do NOT make millions of dollars, wedding planners dont make hundreds of thousands of dollars and teachers do NOT make good money. My sister is a teacher and shes lucky if she brings in anything close to $30,000 a yr. Teachers and military are the 2 most underpaid profesional jobs out there. DH only makes $29,000 a yr after taxes and he's a staff sergent.

No Doctors DO NOT make millions of dollars a year. Yes, a few of the cosmetic doctors do, but most doctors get paid MUCH less than 1M a year. Some of them don't even pull in six digits. Yes, it is still good money, but it's not what a lot people think. Figure in the six figure debt they incur, the amount of time of lost income (in med school it's very hard to work), the countless sleepless nights, the lives that they save, they lives that they improve. You CAN NOT compare a doctor to a waitress in terms of income. Yes, doctors make much better money, but think of the education and responsibility involved.

[Disney8704]

Yes read what you wrote - MOVIE STARS AND MILLIONAIRES. How many wedding planners do weddings for movie stars and millionaires? Not a whole lot.

Actually some very high priced wedding planners make VERY GOOD MONEY! Just ask the planners who do weddings for movie stars and millionaires. 70,000 a year planning weddings, maybe I should get into that field heck I planned my own wedding 15 years ago and didn't do to shabby..It does not feel good having someone dog on your job does it?? I won't argue that nurses work hard, its just different jobs I won't compare.

[mom2my3kids]

No Doctors DO NOT make millions of dollars a year. Yes, a few of the cosmetic doctors do, but most doctors get paid MUCH less than 1M a year. Some of them don't even pull in six digits. Yes, it is still good money, but it's not what a lot people think. Figure in the six figure debt they incur, the amount of time of lost income (in med school it's very hard to work), the countless sleepless nights, the lives that they save, they lives that they improve. You CAN NOT compare a doctor to a waitress in terms of income. Yes, doctors make much better money, but think of the education and responsibility involved.

As far as teachers, again, they shouldn't be compared. If you ask me, teachers don't make enough money. Maybe if they did, that would encourage people to pursue a career in education that otherwise wouldn't due to the money.

EDUCATION and RESPONSIBILITY! Those play a big factor in pay. I know many servers are educated because they can make more money waiting tables than what their degree is in. I'm not saying that servers aren't smart or responsible. What I am saying is "Are servers required to have 8 years of education and AT LEAST 4 additional years of training?" NO. "Do servers have someone's life in their hand?" NO. "Do servers have to have 4 years of education like teachers?" NO. Do servers have the future of our children in their hands?" NO.

We do tip. I feel the servers deserve it - at least most of them. Personally I would rather tip than to have a 15-18% automatic "surcharge" added to my bill or have higher menu items. That encourages a server to do their job well. I just don't understand why people must bring in unrelated careers such as doctors and teachers.


I totally agree with you, you can't compare either of these jobs to another. You can't say well you should tip your doctor or teacher because they are doing a service. Its not the way its set up, I was referring to above posted who was comparing the jobs you can't compare. I do extra things for my doctors and my kids teachers, I gave my OB doctor a strawberry shortcake from the strawberry fest trying to get him to deliver me sooner :rolleyes1 . I think if I was to hand them a cash tip they would think I am crazy:lovestruc

[mom2my3kids]

Yes read what you wrote - MOVIE STARS AND MILLIONAIRES. How many wedding planners do weddings for movie stars and millionaires? Not a whole lot.

There are more then you think, just like how many servers who make 76,000 a year serving tables they are out there but not many..

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_money_does_a_wedding_planner_earn

[Disney8704]

:lmao: You honestly do NOT know what you are talking about! Please just stop while your ahead and say something again that isnt true.

Wedding planners who do normal weddings outweigh the ones who do weddings for millionaires and celeberties. Wherever you are getting your facts, you need to recheck them again. You havent been through college for wedding planning. I HAVE. I know what im talking about.

There are more then you think, just like how many servers who make 76,000 a year serving tables they are out there but not many..

[mom2my3kids]

:lmao: You honestly do NOT know what you are talking about! Please just stop while your ahead and say something again that isn't true.

Wedding planners who do normal weddings outweigh the ones who do weddings for millionaires and celebrities. Wherever you are getting your facts, you need to recheck them again. You haven't been through college for wedding planning. I HAVE. I know what I'm talking about.
Please refer to the link I posted!!:lmao: :lmao: Same could be said for servers, there are more Denny, Ihops, small home restaurants then high priced Disney server jobs..

[englishrose47]

How did this trhread get so off track with arguing about Wedding Planners!! I did read that the average Disney server makes around $70,000 a year which is pretty good but that is mostly tips not wages. Would I prefer no tipping of course I would, but would I want to pay the extra bucks for my food so the servers could make minimum! No tips where's the incentive to do a great job!! When I went solo I tipped very well as I felt they had only 1 person to run back and forth for. So I tipped well over 18% sometimes 30% . I never had charging privelidges put on my KTTK and tipped in cash . Had no problems what so ever. When I go with the fami;ly next year hopefully we will be 5 so not subject to the automatic 18%. I realyy don't like that . I like to be in control of how much I tip!!

[kimgof]

How did this trhread get so off track with arguing about Wedding Planners!! I did read that the average Disney server makes around $70,000 a year which is pretty good but that is mostly tips not wages. Would I prefer no tipping of course I would, but would I want to pay the extra bucks for my food so the servers could make minimum! No tips where's the incentive to do a great job!! When I went solo I tipped very well as I felt they had only 1 person to run back and forth for. So I tipped well over 18% sometimes 30% . I never had charging privelidges put on my KTTK and tipped in cash . Had no problems what so ever. When I go with the fami;ly next year hopefully we will be 5 so not subject to the automatic 18%. I realyy don't like that . I like to be in control of how much I tip!!

Seriously? 70,000/yr.? Wow! I used to waitress.....guess I should've moved to Florida instead spending all those years at Friendly's.:lmao:
Anyway, I have a question. Not sure if its been answered, so sorry if it has. Everyone has spoken of either paying tip in cash or charging with the room key which is linked to your credit card. Can you not just use your actual credit card? :confused: I don't like linking it to the key and carrying cash can be a pain.

[Disney8704]

I didnt see that link before. I guess Im blind today! But anyways, yes what you read on that website is accurate. However, with that said, most wedding planners make more then what its stated on that website. From what I learned in my schooling, most wedding planners these days make on average $70,000 a yr. It all depends on how much you charge per wedding and how many you do. As for the servers jobs, I really dont see how someone can make $70,000 a yr waiting tables. Thats more then what DH makes! If that was true, I would suggest DH quit the military and go be a waiter. Perferably at a Disney restraunt. Cuz I wanna live by Disney.

Please refer to the link I posted!!:lmao: :lmao: Same could be said for servers, there are more Denny, Ihops, small home restaurants then high priced Disney server jobs..

[Disney8704]

I dont see why you couldnt. That would be something you might have to ask you waiter though. It wouldnt be any different if you were paying for the meal with a credit card. You would still be paying the tip with the credit card. You dont see people pay their meal with a credit card and then leave cash for a tip. Its usually all cash or all credit card. In Disney's case with the DDP, I've always have heard you pay cash for the tip or with the room key, which eventually gets charged to your card. So I dont see why you couldnt use a credit card just for tips. It all still gets charged on the card eventually.

Seriously? 70,000/yr.? Wow! I used to waitress.....guess I should've moved to Florida instead spending all those years at Friendly's.:lmao:
Anyway, I have a question. Not sure if its been answered, so sorry if it has. Everyone has spoken of either paying tip in cash or charging with the room key which is linked to your credit card. Can you not just use your actual credit card? :confused: I don't like linking it to the key and carrying cash can be a pain.

[Disney8704]

Here some pretty interesting info:
http://people.howstuffworks.com/tipping1.htm

The Psychology of Tipping

The most prominent reason for tipping appears to be more of a guilt issue than a gratitude issue. We know that tipping, at least in the United States, is expected, and if we don't tip, we stand the chance of angering the server, and then who knows what our next visit to that restaurant, airport or salon will be like?

Also, our assumption that tipping is designed to encourage good service for our next visit may or may not be accurate. What if we are at a restaurant that we know we won't be back to? What then is our motivation to tip? Some argue that it is a way of making ourselves feel better about being served because we know the waiter works hard and isn't paid well.

Can the Weather Determine Tip Amounts? *
Temple University psychologist Bruce Rind found that weather can be influence tip amounts. Rind conducted a study in a room with no visual clues to the weather. "When the server told guests that it was raining, tips averaged 19 percent of the bill. But describing sunny skies sent the gratuity rate soaring to 24 percent" [Source: Pyschology Today].

Believe it or not, a lot of research has gone into why we tip and what makes us tip more or less for similar service. Research has shown that the quality of the service we receive isn't always reflected in the tip we leave. Many who have studied the practice have discovered that excellent service only draws a marginally higher tip than average service. Other things the server might do, however, do make more of a difference -- probably without our even realizing it.

Cornell University's Center for Hospitality Research conducted several studies revealing some other interesting facts about server habits that can boost tip percentages. Here are a few of them:

Briefly touching patrons' shoulders may increase tip amounts.
Touching - Waiters experienced a tip increase from 11.8 percent to 14.8 percent of the check total when they briefly touched the shoulder of the customer. Both men and women left higher tips when touched, and although younger customers increased their tip amount more, all ages increased the tip by some amount [Source: Center for Hospitality Research at Cornell].


*Squatting - Two studies showed that waiters who squatted next to the table when taking orders and talking with customers increased their tips from 14.9 percent of the bill to 17.5 percent of the bill in one study, and from 12 percent to 15 percent in another study. Apparently, the eye contact and closer interaction creates a more intimate connection and makes us want to give the server more money [Source: Center for Hospitality Research at Cornell].

Including candy with the check may increase tip amount.
Giving candy - A study that involved giving customers a piece of candy with their bill showed an increase in tip percentage from 15.1 percent to 17.8 percent. Another study in which servers gave each customer two pieces of candy with the bill increased the tip from 19 percent to 21.6 percent of the bill. Still another study showed that the way the server gave the customer the candy had the largest impact on the increase of the tip: This study had the server initially give each member of the customer's party one piece of candy and then "spontaneously" offer a second piece of candy. This method increased the tip to 23 percent of the bill [Source: Center for Hospitality Research at Cornell].

[KorieDWnut]

Your system isn't better. Your wait staff are paid a pittance, far less than minimum wage. They rely on the largess of strangers to survive. I worked in the restaurant industry for more than 10 years as a university student/young adult. At least my hourly wage could pay my rent.

I waitress 4 days a week at a very small (13 table) family restaurant. What I make a month in this teeny tiny place pays my house MORTGAGE and bills.
I actually bring home more than my husband does. His work provides all the perks like insurance, vacations, sick pay, even Maternity/Paternity Leave.
What I make covers all the bills and then some.

Trust me, depending on where you work as a server, you could make a VERY good living. I for one LOVE the current system. There are some days where I have a table leave me very little or nothing at all. No big deal because it always works out at the end of the day. I don't look at what I make by each table, I just think about the end of the shift. The larger picture.

If restaurants went to paying servers an hourly wage then I would want to get paid at LEAST 20-25 dollars an hour to do it. Otherwise, all restaurants are going to be staffed by high school and college kids who are happy to make 10 dollars or under. No thanks.

That all being said, I don't plan on doing it forever. I am in school now and should be graduating in Dec 2009 with a major in English/Secondary Education. Yes, I am going to be a teacher probably making less (cash wise) than I am now but I am ok with that because it means more to *me to be a teacher long term. Although where I live now, Teachers don't have it all that bad. Starting salary here is 40,000-43,000. Still low, but better than some teachers in other areas have it.

[kaytieeldr]

To me I feel that I shouldnt have to give mine and DHs hard earned money to servers. Fine. You don't have to tip. You can eat in a wide variety of counter service locations. When you CHOOSE to dine in a restaurant where someone comes to your table and takes your order - likely multiple times while you're there - and deliver your food and check on your satisfaction and cater/kowtow to you in a variety of ways, you tip.The poster I was replying to is a RN and she was asking why should she have to tip when she worked just as hard as a server (IMHO she works even harder then a server) Nurses are well-compensated for the work they do, ESPECIALLY in comparison to restaurant servers.

[bavaria]

I agree that most other jobs are just as if not more damanding and tiring. From I have heard (from my sister's sister-in-law who is also a RN at a hospital) most Drs and nurses work at least 12 hrs a day. Some even pull double's. Do they get tipped for doing surgerys and taking care of their patients - no. Teachers - do they get tipped for teaching your child, no. Me (Im a wedding a planner), do I get tipped for my services and doing a job well done, no. DH he's in the air force, does he get tipped for going over to the desert for 4 months defending our country which is WAY more tiring and stressful then any waiter job, no. Do we all make decent money - yes.


To me I feel that I shouldnt have to give mine and DHs hard earned money to servers

However, the careers you listed are not tipped positions in America. In America, servers are in a tipped position. The custom in American restaurants is to tip, just as in many other countries the custom is not to tip, as service is included in the bill and wages differ.

If you do not wish to tip you have in my opinion a few choices
- dine only at 'counter service' or takeaway places (although I do tip when picking up a takeway order at a full service restaurant in America)
- only dine out in those countries where tipping is not the norm (although one usually does still leave a few Euros etc)

I travel all over the world, and take the time to learn the customs of each country I am visiting. I do not attempt to impose my preferences or the cultures of my country onto anyone else.

The same applies here. Tipping is the norm and is expected in America. If someone does not like this, they can lobby the government to change minimum wage.

But not tipping your server in America because you happen not to agree with the concept of tipping is simply penalizing an innocent party.

[Disney8704]

I dont know why people are getting all sour with me. I have never stated that I dont tip. I stated I DONT LIKE TO TIP. Theres a difference there. And if your gonna get sour with anyone, get sour with the person who posted that they dont like to tip and dont see why people do tip. I was simplying replying to her post. Not create an useless and senseless argument.

You know DH made a very good point one time. He said, dont the people on the DISboards have anything better to do then spend their time on here arguing on how people tip. He also said that its non of other peoples business on how others tips and its stupid to argue over it. And I couldnt agree more.

However, the careers you listed are not tipped positions in America. In America, servers are in a tipped position. The custom in American restaurants is to tip, just as in many other countries the custom is not to tip, as service is included in the bill and wages differ.

If you do not wish to tip you have in my opinion a few choices
- dine only at 'counter service' or takeaway places (although I do tip when picking up a takeway order at a full service restaurant in America)
- only dine out in those countries where tipping is not the norm (although one usually does still leave a few Euros etc)

I travel all over the world, and take the time to learn the customs of each country I am visiting. I do not attempt to impose my preferences or the cultures of my country onto anyone else.

The same applies here. Tipping is the norm and is expected in America. If someone does not like this, they can lobby the government to change minimum wage.

But not tipping your server in America because you happen not to agree with the concept of tipping is simply penalizing an innocent party.

[bavaria]

I don't tend to read all posts in a very long thread, just the first page and the last few. It would appear that the last three pages or so are very argumentative between a few posters.

You know DH made a very good point one time. He said, dont the people on the DISboards have anything better to do then spend their time on here arguing on how people tip. He also said that its non of other peoples business on how others tips and its stupid to argue over it. And I couldnt agree more.

I made one post on this thread - I certainly would not consider my one post or the contents thereof argumentative.

[goofy4tink]

As has been just stated, tipping is the custom in this country. So...it should be considered part of 'doing business' with a particular restaurant. If you don't agree with the practice, then don't eat out. That would be the same as telling your doctor that you think his/her service is only worth $50, not $75 (well, not the same but you get the idea).
Every occupation has it's higher paid people and lower paid people. It depends on where you live, what type business it is. My brother worked in very upscale restaurants in Boston and he made a very good living! But, if you work at Friendly's, you won't make the same amount...two different types of restaurants.

[TDC Nala]

The original poster's question was about whether you needed to tip on the dining plan and how to pay the tip.

This thread has gone far afield of that and the OP's question was answered quite awhile ago.

I'm going to close this one now.