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View Full Version : 11 Month Window@ Home Resort. Why ?


DVCDAVE
03-26-2002, 10:29 AM
Don't get me wrong I am not complaining ! We just returned Saturday from 10 great days at WLV, and we are already planning for March next year.

Now to my point, what is the logic of having an 11 month booking window for ones home resort ? My understanding is that Disney accepts reservations for their resorts up to 23 months out. Why then, do WE have to wait to 11 months out to book in a resort that WE own, and not them? Am I missing something ? Again, I am not complaining, and maybe there is a logical explaination beyond the offering documents, bylaws and rules.

I fully understand the logic of a 7 month restriction for a non-home resort reservation.

Now your thoughts.......

imgoingtodisney
03-26-2002, 10:42 AM
by having to wait till the 11 month window to book the cruise we lost out on the secret porthole

DVCDAVE
03-26-2002, 11:11 AM
what is a secret porthole ?

I do understand restrictions on non-home resorts, and other Disney Resort exchanges like Cruises as they are perks. But with a DVC Home resort, WE own it not Disney. So why restrict something we all own. Besides what differance would it make to us owners, other than adding to our convienance, booking security, and options ? I just don't get it.

dtheboys
03-26-2002, 11:36 AM
Good Question.....I don't know the answer, but I would like to know!

Maybe, it is to give everyone a fair advantage in booking a room? What I mean is that vacations are hard to plan in advance.....maybe DVC feels 11 months is fair to open up the gates for resv.????

Good Question.....some one from MGMNT. must have an answer or reason?
OK, I bet that it has to do w/ the Florida bi-laws etc. on renting condos? :confused:

PamOKW
03-26-2002, 11:42 AM
I imagine there are several reasons, possibly including some timeshare laws.

But, the major reason I can see is logistical. If they start dealing with reservations further out than one Use Year, you have problems of making sure people are still members, current in their dues, etc., etc. Also, think of the madhouse of folks cancelling and re-booking using banked and borrowed points and projecting out the banking and borrowing over a 6 or 9 year period. I imagine working with one year at a time is the most efficient way to handle things.

Another possibility is that it allows people to get into the system on a fair footing as they purchase. If all the new BCV owners were able to book for the next two or three Christmas seasons, that wouldn't be fair to those who are going to purchase in the next 12 months or so.

Just some thoughts on the question.

Laurabearz
03-26-2002, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by PamOKW

Another possibility is that it allows people to get into the system on a fair footing as they purchase. If all the new BCV owners were able to book for the next two or three Christmas seasons, that wouldn't be fair to those who are going to purchase in the next 12 months or so.

Just some thoughts on the question.

Ahhh now that makes sense.... Dont know if is a real reason but it is a good one! Thanks Pam!:D

dtheboys
03-26-2002, 12:56 PM
I like that answer!!!!

kem330
03-26-2002, 12:57 PM
Disney takes reservations for the small percent of rooms they own at DVC as well as all the other resorts- they don't differentiate the DVC rooms they own from the other hotels as far as CRO is concerned. Also when you book 2-3 years ahead with CRO, you are not guaranteed a price. The Vacation Club operates on a separate level and as Pam says it makes sense to set a date that works with use years etc. I wouldn't want more than 11 months out- it's too hard to plan any farther ahead and you would probably have a lot more cancellations and changes the farther out you book. Airlines operate on a similar schedule- you can only book 330 days in advance (not quite 11 months ahead

DVCDAVE
03-26-2002, 01:38 PM
I agree with Pam about the Christmas Holiday bookings.

However, I disagree with the rest of the year. Let me explain with a hypothetical. Lets assume there are 8,000 members at OKW's 400 units ( I don't know the exact number, but it doesn't matter). Now, we have 8,000 people vieying for 400 rooms over a 330 day year. iF they were allowed to book 2 years out, there would be more days available, spreading out peoples options. True some people would be booking more than one vacation, and some new purchasers would be shut out of certain days. But that would at worst be for their first year ONLY. Besides, seniority should have some privilages. I agree with PAM about the extra burden of cancellations, reschedules, dues problems, contract sales and waitlists. But, I assume it is not THAT big of a deal, as a computer does that pretty much automatically.

kem330
03-26-2002, 01:48 PM
I'm not following your logic- if you open it to two years- you have twice as many points available for use which would negate more dates available- I just don't see the difference- I think it would cause chaos- people grabbing dates they might not even use- and those not sure totally missing out not on 1 year but 2 years of ressies. I have enough trouble planning 11 months out. I think it would be a huge detriment to the membership to have to plan 2 years out. The beauty of DVC is that it is flexible and you can use it when you want , but you might has well have a fixed week if you have to book so far in advance to get your first choice

ncligs
03-26-2002, 07:00 PM
I agree with PamOKW, if it was any earlier, it would be "mass confusion" for MS. I like the way it is now, it gives everybody a"equal chance" in making ressies:D . The airlines do it, the same way, for a reason also.:rolleyes:

dianeschlicht
03-27-2002, 08:19 AM
ncligs,
That airline thing was my thought as well. We know that when we book our 11 month out DVC room, we can also book our airline ressie at the same time. Airlines will not allow more than 11months out. I suspect there is a monitary reason for them, however.

Richyams
03-27-2002, 08:51 AM
I think a major reason is the tenuous nature of reservations made more than 11 months out. I htink that the number of cancels and reschedules would be far higher. I think this is probably true for both DVC and airlines.

I think the eleven month window is perfect. I wouldn't want the hassle of being forced to plan vacations two years out.

Doctor P
03-27-2002, 09:14 AM
I think that the borrowing/banking limits to one year back and one year forward may also be a factor in the 11 month window. With an 11 month window, you can never be more than one use year ahead on points (i.e., the points can be encumbered for any reservation at the 11 month window, and therefore MS never has to reprogram the computers to encumber points from a use year that the person would not be able to access at the time they make their reservation--even if you are not borrowing, the next year's points would be "in the system" if you know what I mean ;) )

Granny
03-27-2002, 11:09 AM
PamOKW....I agree with your reasons.

And the one I think makes the most sense has been glossed over:

"If they start dealing with reservations further out than one Use Year, you have problems of making sure people are still members, current in their dues, etc., etc."

I think a longer term window would cause a lot of additional administration and logistical issues for DVD.

Interesting question DVCDAVE. Have you tried to get DVD's official position?

crisi
03-27-2002, 05:27 PM
DVCDave,

As an IS person, I have to point out that the computer does NOTHING automatically - we IS people have to work our back ends off to make it look effortless - and even then it often isn't nearly as easy for the operator as it should be.

And, why should seniority have privledges? Are your points somehow "better" than mine? Your dues paid with crisper bills? Your benefit of being an early member is that you have gotten to be a member for all those years. That should be enough.

And, last I checked, they do "own" the resort - they lease it to us. True, its a deeded lease, but Disney hasn't given up ownership of a darn thing.

But I think that Pam is right, it has to with both logistics and fairness. The further out a trip is booked, the more likely changes are going to be made - including cancellation. Every time we call member services to make changes to a reservation, it increases costs.

DVCDAVE
03-27-2002, 07:52 PM
CRISI;

First, I notice you are a "Welcomed Guest" of these boards. Welcome, but I sense a bit of hostility in your posted reply.

Second; the computer does NOTHING automatically

I recently bought Airline tickets to go to WDW online, and talked to NO person, bought tickets over the PHONE (punching the keys at every prompt) thru Ticketmaster for Disney's Wide World of Sports exhibition game on Wednesday March 20th between the Atlanta Braves and Cleveland Indians and talked to NO person. I even booked my National Rental Car Reservation online and talked to NO person. If this is an example on computers doing nothing automaticaly, I LOVE it, and want more of this lack of automation. Maybe DVC Member Services could be so UNautomated.

Third; why should seniority have privledges?

If you go back and read my post again, you will see that your response quotes me out of context. I responed in that quote to the possibility of current members somehow having an unfair advantage of making bookings further out, and new members having difficulty making bookings. It is obvious that current members already have that advantage, and any change would only affect new members for at worst their first year (which is already an exisiting issue), but certainly not their second year or beyond. It is clear whereever we go in life, those in line first always have an advantage over the others that arrive later, in this DVC's situation is no different, and I was not asking for anything more than that which already exists.

Third; last I checked, they do "own" the resort - they lease it to us. True, its a deeded lease, but Disney hasn't given up ownership of a darn thing.

Absolutly true. This has been discussed in many threads on these boards over the 3 years I have been here. However, that is not the topic. Leased or owned, the contract does entitle us members to enjoy the use of the property over the life of the lease. Just as one would enjoy the use and control of a car over the life of its lease.

Fourth; The further out a trip is booked, the more likely changes are going to be made - including cancellation.

True, we agree.

Fifth; Every time we call member services to make changes to a reservation, it increases costs.

How much ? Do you know what the incramental costs increase would be ? Disney's current starting rate is $6.10 per hour. (I got it off their website) How many additional hours per person or people ? I have no idea, and it would be interesting to find out. Then again, why does it have to be done by people ? Why can't it be done online by those UNautomated computers like we can do for the other Disney resorts, AND DVC units in Disney's inventory ? Why I just came back from Disney's own wesite, and not only can I make a reservation for a resort online. but I can also check it, change it, CANCEL it, buy park ticket and packages. Isn't this what we are talking about ? So, WHAT added costs, if it is DONE efficiently ?! Further more, I find it interesting that if you were to call Disney CRO, you have to pay for the phone call, as no 1-800 number is offerred excpet for Disney Club members, but online it costs nothing to get the same job done.

raidermatt
03-27-2002, 10:31 PM
For most of the reasons posted already, I prefer the 11 month window. It it were 2 years, we'd have to plan much further ahead to get peak times like Christmas or 4th of July. More likely, we'd have evem more members reserving times "just in case" they want to use it. Many wouldn't cancel until they had to.

11 months works.

crisi
03-28-2002, 06:38 PM
Sorry if I sounded hostile....

My point about the computers is that behind your web enabled idea (which is a nice idea and something I would love to have) needs to be programmed. Web enabling a reservations systems as complex as Disney's would cost hundreds of millions of dollars (trust me on this - this one I'm pretty intimately familiar with - but can't say why or with whom - just that I've done my share of IT consulting for big companies) - its going to take a lot of $6.10 an hour layoffs to get any sort of return on investment.

Even just the simple sounding change you started talking about making to the DVC system - allowing people to book more than 11 months out and leaving the phone reservation system in place - is probably not nearly as simple as it sounds. Similar projects I've been involved in have ended up costing millions of dollars - as we discover the database was never designed to support the change and we have to start from scratch. Of course, I don't know the database architecture behind the MS system - it could be a simple tweak, but experience (and understanding the complexities of use year, bank/borrow, dues in good standing, etc) is ringing my alarms.

Even once you have a system developed, that system requires people to run it. Database Administrators, Systems Operators, Systems Administrators - and hardware to run it on. Adding one year to the amount of time we can book out doubles the size of the database - requiring more hardware, more maintenance - i.e. more cost.

And that's what I mean by "computers don't do anything automatically."

DVCDAVE
03-28-2002, 07:03 PM
Fair enough answer !, and welcome to the boards.