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Emma's Dad
04-16-2008, 08:55 AM
I just read the following article and just HAD to post this so all the families could see it:

Baby Formula Bottles Often Toxic (http://medheadlines.com/2008/04/16/baby-formula-bottles-often-toxic/)

The article basically says that if you fed your baby formula, you just basically gave them toxic food! This is the paragraph that really got my attention:

Several months ago, members of EWG contacted officials at every major infant formula manufacturing company and learned that all of them use BPA as a lining for the metal parts of all containers that package liquid and powdered infant formulas.

Then followed by:
The EWG research revealed the likelihood that 1 of every 16 infants is fed enough liquid formula to expose the baby to toxic levels of BPA, levels that exceed those found to be toxic using the most precise laboratory standards

And finally... this is what they say happens if your child ingests BPA:
... exposure to BPA in doses akin to everyday human exposure and serious medical conditions such as early puberty, prostate cancer, and breast cancer.

Unfortunately, the article does not go any further to state what these companies plan to do to prevent future use of BPA lined products. I don't even know what else to say about this issue... but I just felt the need to get the word out, because this is pretty bad news for those who cannot breast feed their babies and rely on formula to feed them.

Bethy Lou
04-16-2008, 08:59 AM
How terrible! I plan to breastfeed but because I will be going back to work as a teacher I was going to supplement with formula. How awful! Thanks for sharing I have some research to do!

Stasieki
04-16-2008, 09:22 AM
There is a new bottle out there called Born Free that is supposed to be free of those toxins. I haven't tried them, but my best friend who just had a baby is using them. They are at Babies R Us.

mickeywho?
04-16-2008, 09:32 AM
This chemical is also used in plastic water bottles (the refillable ones as well) and in the lining of many canned products.
This has been a hot topic here at home for a year now. There is a law being written to address it but who knows how far it will go as far as banning it from products sold in stores etc. I know alot of retailers have been taking products off the shelves lately.
For those of you looking for baby bottles - the Born Free ones are great and are sold everywhere here now. So they are becoming much easier to find.

jakoky
04-16-2008, 10:27 AM
It has just been on the news here that canada is probably going to be the first country to ban this "bad" substance....hoping all other countries arent far behind, from the sounds of it, it is in many, many things we use daily...
sharon

HGD24
04-16-2008, 11:08 AM
As a new mom, I've gone around and around on this very subject. What I've learned is that most every topic of research has two sides. As with any topic, everyone should be sure to research both sides and decide for themselves what they believe to be true. I've also learned that both sides can and will exaggerate their "findings" in order to make their research seem to the most reliable and believable.

Here's a link to an article on CNN.com. You'll see that this particular article states that cans of powdered formula do not contain BPA.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/12/04/bpa.formula/

Here are two direct quotes from that article:

"...they do have choices, including powdered formula or liquid formula not packaged in cans, and BPA-free baby bottles...."

"There's a lot of data out there, a lot of science that is looking at the effect of BPA in animals, but we don't have any data unfortunately in humans, so it makes it a little bit hard to know what's worrisome and what's not, " says Dr. Ari Brown, a member of the Academy of Pediatrics and author of the book "Baby 411."


BTW: There are a small number of bottle manufacturers who make BPA free bottles, but the majority do still use it and as pp's here have said, they are in items that we all use everyday (ie: plastic sports bottles). There have been far too many times when research shows something is bad for us only to turn around a few years later and say it's not bad. I for one believe that more research has to be done to see how BPA actually affects humans.

Emma's Dad
04-16-2008, 11:48 AM
Before today I hadn't heard of BPA... so I am definitely not well informed of both sides of the table. But when I see an article that includes statements like On April 15, the National Toxicology Program (NTP) reversed the opinion reached by an earlier panel that declared BPA a safe element for plastic packaging...
I tend to perk my ears and take notice. The article referenced by HGD24 was written (last modified) on 12/4/07. It appears that there is now new evidence that substantiates EWG's claims all along that this stuff is really harmful to our babies.

Also, just to clarify... the article from CNN did not state that cans of powdered formula do not contain BPA, but rather said:
The formula makers acknowledge the presence of BPA, but say it is not harmful.

I am definitely going to be doing for research and watching the repercussions from this recent release by the NTP. I wonder what the FDA is going to say about this??

mickeywho?
04-16-2008, 11:51 AM
I for one believe that more research has to be done to see how BPA actually affects humans.

Exactly the best reason to stay away from it as much as possible. Until a product is proven safe I'll keep it away from my kids and myself! Until then I'll make other choices.

HGD24
04-16-2008, 12:31 PM
I'm not saying BPA is not harmful, but I'm also not ready to say that it is. I'm just saying that people can look anywhere and find research to back up what they believe in and that people need to realize that this has only begun to be researched so it may be years before we know the truth.

I apologize for mis-speaking when I said, "You'll see that this particular article states that cans of powdered formula do not contain BPA." I meant to say that it states that powdered formula does not have to come in cans containing BPA. I was interrupted while typing and didn't re-read before I posted.

Erin1700
04-16-2008, 12:53 PM
Ok, I am exhausted so maybe I am not following you very well...but what am I supposed to avoid? I have 2 kids one DD7 who had formula in a bottle till she was 2 and is now being treated for early puberty. I also have a son 14 months old who I just gave his bottle of formula like I do every day. So is it the formula? the bottle? We use ready to feed plastic bottles of Isomil and did with both. When DD got older we used powder, but not for too long.

Princess_Michelle
04-16-2008, 12:59 PM
I wonder what the FDA is going to say about this??

They are going to say whatever is beneficial for them, and them only. I do not believe a WORD that comes out of them. These are the same people who do not allow Stevia as a food additive, but allow, chemicals like Aspartame in food, and then have the gall to tell people it is safe. Stevia is a natural herb, Aspartame is a man made chemical, that breaks down into, among other things, formaldehyde.
Stevia has been heavily used for THOUSANDS of years by native people's in South America and for more than 30 years in Japan, with NO recorded side affects. However, there are numerous reports that link other man made sweeteners to different diseases, birth defects and side effects. But the FDA allows the chemicals, and not the natural herb b/c there aren't "enough studies that prove it safe".

What they mean is...."Stevia is so cheap to make that other sweetener's would go out of business, and then who would give us money?"

Never, ever trust the FDA.......

Emma's Dad
04-16-2008, 01:00 PM
It's all good :) I figured you were trying to say that... I just didn't want others to think that canned formula was exempt. Apparently, EVERY can of formula in the US is lined with this stuff.

Here is some really interesting reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A#cite_note-31

I didn't know the 7 different groups of plastic. AND I didn't know that the group in which baby bottles are made, when such plastics are exposed to hot liquids, BPA leaches out 55 times faster than it does under normal conditions. That's just plain scary.

Princess_Michelle
04-16-2008, 01:05 PM
Ok, I am exhausted so maybe I am not following you very well...but what am I supposed to avoid? I have 2 kids one DD7 who had formula in a bottle till she was 2 and is now being treated for early puberty. I also have a son 14 months old who I just gave his bottle of formula like I do every day. So is it the formula? the bottle? We use ready to feed plastic bottles of Isomil and did with both. When DD got older we used powder, but not for too long.

Well, according to this article, they are saying that one of the consequences of the overuse of this Bisphenol A (which is in a LOT of stuff, but especially baby formula and baby bottles) is early puberty. So..... I guess find out what has this stuff in it and stay far far away.

It also lists Insulin Resistance and PCOS as side effects, both of which I have, so I wonder if it's a contributing factor. :confused3

ETA: Here is the site: http://www.ewg.org/reports/bisphenola

Emma's Dad
04-16-2008, 01:33 PM
Ok, I am exhausted so maybe I am not following you very well...but what am I supposed to avoid? I have 2 kids one DD7 who had formula in a bottle till she was 2 and is now being treated for early puberty. I also have a son 14 months old who I just gave his bottle of formula like I do every day. So is it the formula? the bottle? We use ready to feed plastic bottles of Isomil and did with both. When DD got older we used powder, but not for too long.

According to the latest article, both powder and liquid forms of formula which are packaged with any metal parts will have BPA. Since you are using the ready-to-feed bottles, you should be concerned if the bottle has a number "7" within the recycle triangle with the arrows (looks similiar to this - )
http://www.earthodyssey.com/imagesRecycle/plastic7.gif
Other recycle numbers that also may leach BPA are 1,3, and 6.

You may want to consider changing to a BPA free bottle if you find the Isomil bottle to be made with plastic containing BPA.

Schmeck
04-16-2008, 02:50 PM
Exactly the best reason to stay away from it as much as possible. Until a product is proven safe I'll keep it away from my kids and myself! Until then I'll make other choices.

But how in the world are you determining what is safe? Are you having every single product in your home run through a hundred lab tests to make sure it is safe? Do you own any foam rubber, carpeting, leather, wood finish, colored paper?

Avonlady1001
04-16-2008, 02:59 PM
What formula comes in another form other than cans?? I think I've only seen cans.

emh1129
04-16-2008, 03:31 PM
What formula comes in another form other than cans?? I think I've only seen cans.

We breastfeed, so I can't say from experience, but I think I've seen plastic formula containers, too (the ready to feed kind, maybe?)

Princess_Michelle
04-16-2008, 04:21 PM
But how in the world are you determining what is safe? Are you having every single product in your home run through a hundred lab tests to make sure it is safe? Do you own any foam rubber, carpeting, leather, wood finish, colored paper?

So b/c you don't know for sure if everything is safe, you shouldn't bother to stay away from things that you know AREN'T safe??? That doesn't make any sense. :confused3

The more harmful substances you can remove from your body and environment the better. And why would you, or rather, HOW could you continue to use something for your children when you KNOW that there are doubts about its safety and it's probable link to cancer/illness. :confused3

We just found out my SIL has a brain tumor. She is only 27 and pregnant with her second child. We are all stunned, to say the least, b/c she is healthy as a horse! The doctors say it's just "one of those things" and they have no idea what caused it. SO, she'll have to have a C-section and 8-12 weeks later have brain surgery. Can you imagine??? On a side note, she is the oldest of four kids and the ONLY one who was fed formula in bottles, all the others were breastfed. Now, can we say that the BPA in the formula/bottle is the cause? Not for sure, b/c there are tons of kids (mine included) who have been fed with formula/bottles and are fine; (so far anyways, SIL is 27, so there is no telling what is in store for my son and other bottle fed babies his age when they grow up) BUT it is a strange coincidence. I don't buy that tumors just show up for NO reason; SOMETHING caused it, we just don't know enough (aren't being TOLD enough) about all the man-made crap we put into our bodies. I for one, am IRATE, that I trusted these profit seeking companies and the FDA with the health of my child, and I seriously hope he turns out OK. :guilty:

These past few years I have been learning a lot about healthy living and realizing that I used to be part of the masses that just believed everything that was told to me by the government, or actually fell for all the advertising crap on TV. When Atkins came out companies were putting LOW CARB on things like Mayonnaise and bacon, trying to pass it off for healthy b/c it was LOW CARB.... Puh-lease.

So, no, I don't trust formula companies who say their stuff "is just as good" as breastmilk, cause it's not.... and I wish I would have known that a few years ago. :guilty:

laceemouse
04-16-2008, 08:09 PM
So glad I breastfed all of mine! How in the world can some factory make anything as good for babies as what God made my body to make? Plus, it was free and I never once with four kids had to go to the kitchen in the middle of the night and fix them a bottle while they screamed. Mommy is always ready!
I know some moms really cannot breastfeed, and it is not easy (you have to work at it a little and it is harder to leave the baby and get away) but I am always amazed at how many moms don't want to breastfeed. I always looked forward to it, it was a natural part of my mothering instincts!
My dh and I and all of our siblings were bottle fed. When formula was new doctors told moms "Don't bother breastfeeding, just go buy that stuff they make in factories now. You're FREE!" YUK!!
Besides, breast milk is sweet and formula tastes like chalk. Try it.....

momtoBrandon&Jacob
04-16-2008, 08:24 PM
So glad I breastfed all of mine! How in the world can some factory make anything as good for babies as what God made my body to make? Plus, it was free and I never once with four kids had to go to the kitchen in the middle of the night and fix them a bottle while they screamed. Mommy is always ready!
I know some moms really cannot breastfeed, and it is not easy (you have to work at it a little and it is harder to leave the baby and get away) but I am always amazed at how many moms don't want to breastfeed. I always looked forward to it, it was a natural part of my mothering instincts!
My dh and I and all of our siblings were bottle fed. When formula was new doctors told moms "Don't bother breastfeeding, just go buy that stuff they make in factories now. You're FREE!" YUK!!
Besides, breast milk is sweet and formula tastes like chalk. Try it.....

I don't think this thread was started as a debate on breastfeeding vs. bottlefeeding.

Schmeck
04-16-2008, 10:34 PM
So b/c you don't know for sure if everything is safe, you shouldn't bother to stay away from things that you know AREN'T safe??? That doesn't make any sense. :confused3

The more harmful substances you can remove from your body and environment the better. And why would you, or rather, HOW could you continue to use something for your children when you KNOW that there are doubts about its safety and it's probable link to cancer/illness. :confused3

We just found out my SIL has a brain tumor. She is only 27 and pregnant with her second child. We are all stunned, to say the least, b/c she is healthy as a horse! The doctors say it's just "one of those things" and they have no idea what caused it. SO, she'll have to have a C-section and 8-12 weeks later have brain surgery. Can you imagine??? On a side note, she is the oldest of four kids and the ONLY one who was fed formula in bottles, all the others were breastfed. Now, can we say that the BPA in the formula/bottle is the cause? Not for sure, b/c there are tons of kids (mine included) who have been fed with formula/bottles and are fine; (so far anyways, SIL is 27, so there is no telling what is in store for my son and other bottle fed babies his age when they grow up) BUT it is a strange coincidence. I don't buy that tumors just show up for NO reason; SOMETHING caused it, we just don't know enough (aren't being TOLD enough) about all the man-made crap we put into our bodies. I for one, am IRATE, that I trusted these profit seeking companies and the FDA with the health of my child, and I seriously hope he turns out OK. :guilty:

These past few years I have been learning a lot about healthy living and realizing that I used to be part of the masses that just believed everything that was told to me by the government, or actually fell for all the advertising crap on TV. When Atkins came out companies were putting LOW CARB on things like Mayonnaise and bacon, trying to pass it off for healthy b/c it was LOW CARB.... Puh-lease.

So, no, I don't trust formula companies who say their stuff "is just as good" as breastmilk, cause it's not.... and I wish I would have known that a few years ago. :guilty:

But not only are the plastics in the baby bottles unsafe, so are all the things I've mentioned - they've been found to have all kinds of nasties in them. Almost every manmade product out there has some type of negative effect on us. Just the radiation from the sun and manmade radiation from microwaves, cell towers, TV signals, radio signals... So yes, try to limit exposure (don't go drinking tons of organic chemicals like benzene - they are the really toxic ones!) but realize that even the air you and your baby breathe is tainted, and cancer cells are just regular cells that forgot to turn off the multiplier. We have cancer cells developing in us from time to time all through our life (which is too long anyways and that's why we all eventually get cancer of some kind) but most of the time our bodies get rid of them. About the only option we have is to go back to our caves, and die early, before our cells live long enough to mutate and give us cancer!

Princess_Michelle
04-16-2008, 11:43 PM
But not only are the plastics in the baby bottles unsafe, so are all the things I've mentioned - they've been found to have all kinds of nasties in them. Almost every manmade product out there has some type of negative effect on us. Just the radiation from the sun and manmade radiation from microwaves, cell towers, TV signals, radio signals... So yes, try to limit exposure (don't go drinking tons of organic chemicals like benzene - they are the really toxic ones!) but realize that even the air you and your baby breathe is tainted, and cancer cells are just regular cells that forgot to turn off the multiplier. We have cancer cells developing in us from time to time all through our life (which is too long anyways and that's why we all eventually get cancer of some kind) but most of the time our bodies get rid of them. About the only option we have is to go back to our caves, and die early, before our cells live long enough to mutate and give us cancer!

Right, I understand that toxins are everywhere....which is why it makes even MORE sense to stay away from as much as you can. You have to go out into the sun, but you don't have to lather yourself in oil and lay in it for hours at a time. You don't have too much choice about the air you breathe. BUT, I got rid of my microwave as soon as I found out how they basically nullify the nutrients in your food. :confused3

If you know the stuff is in baby bottles, you can quit using them, thereby decreasing your exposure to those toxins. Every bit helps! You shouldn't just use them anyways, b/c "oh well, it's in everything, whatcha gonna do?" You can refuse to buy products that are harmful, and force companies to make better and healthier stuff, that's what you can do.

So, according to your logic...we should all just go jump off a bridge, cause hey, we're gonna die anyways. :confused3

I never understand why people use the "we're all gonna die someday" excuse to be lazy and not care about the products they put into their bodies. That's what it is, laziness. Now that I know these products COULD harm my future children, there is no possible way I could give it to them anyways. :confused3 Just like fast food.... once I realized just how unhealthy, processed, and pure crap the "food" (if you wanna pretend and call it that) was... I could NOT give to my son. To KNOW, that something is harmful, and to have the power to stay away from it, but to consume it anyways, for whatever reason.... is lazy.... among other things. :confused3

mickeywho?
04-17-2008, 09:01 AM
Right, I understand that toxins are everywhere....which is why it makes even MORE sense to stay away from as much as you can. You have to go out into the sun, but you don't have to lather yourself in oil and lay in it for hours at a time. You don't have too much choice about the air you breathe. BUT, I got rid of my microwave as soon as I found out how they basically nullify the nutrients in your food. :confused3

If you know the stuff is in baby bottles, you can quit using them, thereby decreasing your exposure to those toxins. Every bit helps! You shouldn't just use them anyways, b/c "oh well, it's in everything, whatcha gonna do?" You can refuse to buy products that are harmful, and force companies to make better and healthier stuff, that's what you can do.

So, according to your logic...we should all just go jump off a bridge, cause hey, we're gonna die anyways. :confused3

I never understand why people use the "we're all gonna die someday" excuse to be lazy and not care about the products they put into their bodies. That's what it is, laziness. Now that I know these products COULD harm my future children, there is no possible way I could give it to them anyways. :confused3 Just like fast food.... once I realized just how unhealthy, processed, and pure crap the "food" (if you wanna pretend and call it that) was... I could NOT give to my son. To KNOW, that something is harmful, and to have the power to stay away from it, but to consume it anyways, for whatever reason.... is lazy.... among other things. :confused3

You got there before I did. Well said!

Camno's Mama
04-17-2008, 09:11 AM
So glad I breastfed all of mine! How in the world can some factory make anything as good for babies as what God made my body to make? Plus, it was free and I never once with four kids had to go to the kitchen in the middle of the night and fix them a bottle while they screamed. Mommy is always ready!
I know some moms really cannot breastfeed, and it is not easy (you have to work at it a little and it is harder to leave the baby and get away) but I am always amazed at how many moms don't want to breastfeed. I always looked forward to it, it was a natural part of my mothering instincts!
My dh and I and all of our siblings were bottle fed. When formula was new doctors told moms "Don't bother breastfeeding, just go buy that stuff they make in factories now. You're FREE!" YUK!!
Besides, breast milk is sweet and formula tastes like chalk. Try it.....

Uh-oh...:scared1:

Disneychix
04-17-2008, 09:31 AM
I never understand why people use the "we're all gonna die someday" excuse to be lazy and not care about the products they put into their bodies. That's what it is, laziness. Now that I know these products COULD harm my future children, there is no possible way I could give it to them anyways. :confused3 Just like fast food.... once I realized just how unhealthy, processed, and pure crap the "food" (if you wanna pretend and call it that) was... I could NOT give to my son. To KNOW, that something is harmful, and to have the power to stay away from it, but to consume it anyways, for whatever reason.... is lazy.... among other things. :confused3

It seems to be the buzz lately to find harm in things and then get some big business or activist group or gov't official to back it up. Look at butter: good until the 80's, bad in the 90's, now good again? Look at red meat, eggs, chocolate, wine, sugar. I could go on and on. You can live your life the way you want but don't judge others too quickly. In 2 years I'm sure someone will find something wrong with the very items you feel are the best for your family right now.
I am NOT lazy, as you say, becuase sometimes I enjoy a meal out or because I cook in my microwave. I was not lazy when I gave my premature son formula in a bottle (Um, Hello, in the NICU they GIVE PREEMIES FORMULA) because I could no longer express milk. I am not lazy because I want to continue to LIVE my life instead of always thinking of what could kill me.

BTW, you might want to stay away from WDW too. They have a smoking section in every park and resort and I do believe they have microwaves onsite ;)

Princess_Michelle
04-17-2008, 10:18 AM
It seems to be the buzz lately to find harm in things and then get some big business or activist group or gov't official to back it up. Look at butter: good until the 80's, bad in the 90's, now good again? Look at red meat, eggs, chocolate, wine, sugar. I could go on and on. You can live your life the way you want but don't judge others too quickly. In 2 years I'm sure someone will find something wrong with the very items you feel are the best for your family right now.
I am NOT lazy, as you say, becuase sometimes I enjoy a meal out or because I cook in my microwave. I was not lazy when I gave my premature son formula in a bottle (Um, Hello, in the NICU they GIVE PREEMIES FORMULA) because I could no longer express milk. I am not lazy because I want to continue to LIVE my life instead of always thinking of what could kill me.

BTW, you might want to stay away from WDW too. They have a smoking section in every park and resort and I do believe they have microwaves onsite ;)

I only have a minute, so I'll be quick....

Red meat, eggs, chocolate, wine, sugar and butter are all natural things that are not genetically modified (well, if you buy the right brands, anyways) and all the items, or ingredients, and are only harmful to you when not eaten in moderation.

I try to eat/use things that are all natural and free from processing...all I can do is try, it's better than just sitting back and throwing my hands up in the air and digging into a Big Mac everyday b/c "I just can't win, and I'm gonna die anyways". :confused3

I enjoy a meal out too, sometimes, but now that I am knowledgable about what I am eating...I choose different restaurants, don't go out quite as much, and only eat small portions of what I'm given, simply b/c I know how many calories are in chain restaurant food.

I also gave my son formula b/c I had a hard time breastfeeding. I did it b/c I was told that it was perfectly healthy and there was nothing harmful about it. Nobody told me that the cans were lined with this stuff! Noone told me the bottles I was using (and warming in the microwave) were toxic! Now that I have been informed, then yes, it would be lazy for me to just give it to my next kid anyways. At the very least, if I couldn't breastfeed, I should go out and find bottles/formula that do NOT contain the substance.

I don't have to worry about what I encounter when I go on vacation b/c I live so healthy year round, that encountering crap a few days a year, doesn't bother me.

I live my life just fine, and I don't always think of what could kill me, I just think of what is better for me and my family, and shop accordingly. As a matter of fact, I feel great b/c of eating so healthy.... I'm losing weight, my cholesterol and triglycerides are going down and my good cholesterol is going up, and I save money b/c we don't buy tons of junk at the store and don't go out to eat as much. I have way more energy to go out and live my life.... speaking of which... I need to go, we're off to the park!

3"Mouse"keteers
04-17-2008, 10:31 AM
Ok, I am exhausted so maybe I am not following you very well...but what am I supposed to avoid? I have 2 kids one DD7 who had formula in a bottle till she was 2 and is now being treated for early puberty. I also have a son 14 months old who I just gave his bottle of formula like I do every day. So is it the formula? the bottle? We use ready to feed plastic bottles of Isomil and did with both. When DD got older we used powder, but not for too long.
I think the plastic bottles of formula are okay.........the problem is with formula that comes in metal cans. Most bottles out there are also made with the toxin, so you need to be careful what type of bottles you buy.

two-foxes
04-17-2008, 10:42 AM
For those of you looking for baby bottles - the Born Free ones are great and are sold everywhere here now. So they are becoming much easier to find.


Sorry, Born Free Bottles are not great. The nipples collapse, they are NOT good for babies with acid reflux or colic and they are insanely over priced. Just MY experience, however. Of course, I discovered that after spending $100 on them in an effort to ensure my son is not getting BPA from his Avent and Dr Browns bottles. Luckily, Dr. Browns is coming out with a BPA free bottle and they also have glass bottles on the market as well. Although I am not happy with producing the extra waste with Playtex drop ins, they are now my bottle of choice for DS, as they are BPA free and fabulous for acid reflux and colic.

I agree with some issues on both sides here. I will do my best to ensure my little man is safe from chemicals that can be easily avoided by switching to other products. I can't stop giving my little guy formula, which I have ensured is organic (but he is almost 12 months, so cows milk here we come!), but I have stopped purchasing all Gerber baby food in the plastic containers (#7) and switched to glass baby food containers. Also, thankfully, I do LOVE the born free sippies, and although expensive, they are one of the few out there that are BPA free.

Ultimately, make good choice with confirmed information that is out there. We cannot predict the future or know what effects everything in our lives or our childrens lives, but we can act on information that is out there....

Emma's Dad
04-17-2008, 11:11 AM
Sorry, Born Free Bottles are not great. The nipples collapse, they are NOT good for babies with acid reflux or colic and they are insanely over priced. Just MY experience, however. Of course, I discovered that after spending $100 on them in an effort to ensure my son is not getting BPA from his Avent and Dr Browns bottles. Luckily, Dr. Browns is coming out with a BPA free bottle and they also have glass bottles on the market as well. Although I am not happy with producing the extra waste with Playtex drop ins, they are now my bottle of choice for DS, as they are BPA free and fabulous for acid reflux and colic.

I agree with some issues on both sides here. I will do my best to ensure my little man is safe from chemicals that can be easily avoided by switching to other products. I can't stop giving my little guy formula, which I have ensured is organic (but he is almost 12 months, so cows milk here we come!), but I have stopped purchasing all Gerber baby food in the plastic containers (#7) and switched to glass baby food containers. Also, thankfully, I do LOVE the born free sippies, and although expensive, they are one of the few out there that are BPA free.

Ultimately, make good choice with confirmed information that is out there. We cannot predict the future or know what effects everything in our lives or our childrens lives, but we can act on information that is out there....

Thank you very much for this post, two-foxes. I was very curious to see real-world experience on how difficult it is for someone trying to avoid known products that contain BPA.

Camno's Mama
04-17-2008, 11:48 AM
It seems to be the buzz lately to find harm in things and then get some big business or activist group or gov't official to back it up. Look at butter: good until the 80's, bad in the 90's, now good again? Look at red meat, eggs, chocolate, wine, sugar. I could go on and on. You can live your life the way you want but don't judge others too quickly. In 2 years I'm sure someone will find something wrong with the very items you feel are the best for your family right now.
I am NOT lazy, as you say, becuase sometimes I enjoy a meal out or because I cook in my microwave. I was not lazy when I gave my premature son formula in a bottle (Um, Hello, in the NICU they GIVE PREEMIES FORMULA) because I could no longer express milk. I am not lazy because I want to continue to LIVE my life instead of always thinking of what could kill me.

BTW, you might want to stay away from WDW too. They have a smoking section in every park and resort and I do believe they have microwaves onsite ;)

I totally agree with you. I breastfed both my boys for almost two years and I feed them very healthy food at home. But we use a microwave and we love to eat out at the more "healthy" fast food places. You just have to pick your battles.

If that makes me lazy, then so be it. Pretty soon people will be telling me that letting my boys dig in the dirt is dangerous and that I should be facilitating more "safe" play for my kids.

You just have to do your best. I think that this thread started out as something informative. I hope that it doesn't turn into one of those judgmental parenting things.

mickeywho?
04-17-2008, 07:26 PM
Here's a list from Rubbermaid that shows all their products that do/do not contain BPA. http://www.rubbermaid.com/rubbermaid/bpa-info.jhtml
Of course, most of mine seem to fall in the "do" category so I'll be cleaning out my cupboards tonight and switching to the alternative.

ajh88
04-17-2008, 09:40 PM
I don't know the safety of BPA - I haven't done my own research yet. I just want to say that when reading articles of this nature (sort of scare-tactic driven), it is always important to consider the sources. The EWG is a conservation activist group (and thus funded by other like-minded organizations, individuals, and businesses) - they may have ulterior motives for the 'research' they choose to promote. My point is that this story may not be presenting the entire picture, or perhaps even an accurate picture of the side they did choose to present. Again, I don't know - haven't hashed it all out yet - and it's more difficult because they didn't actually cite any published research that has been conducted.

Anyway, I believe we should do everything possible to protect our children and families and by all means if people are worried about BPA then avoid it as much as possible.

tjlovespooh
04-17-2008, 10:16 PM
Thank you very much for this post, two-foxes. I was very curious to see real-world experience on how difficult it is for someone trying to avoid known products that contain BPA.

There are actually quite a few BPA-free baby bottles available on the market. I've been doing research recently as we're expecting DC#2. Here's a list I've compiled:

Born Free - available in both Glass and BPA-free plastic http://www.newbornfree.com/pics/bornfree/index.htm

SILISKIN - glass baby bottles http://silikids.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=S&Product_Code=Siliskin_8oz&Category_Code=Baby_Products

Green to Grow - BPA-free plastic http://www.greentogrow.com/

ThinkBaby - BPA-free plastic http://www.thinkbabybottles.com/

Wee Go - Glass bottles http://www.thingamababy.com/baby/2007/09/glassbaby.html

Dr. Brown's Glass Bottles http://www.handi-craft.com/bottles/News.asp

Also, since so many plastic bottles are made with BPA I started using Sigg http://www.mysigg.com/ bottles for DS2 instead of a sippy cup. I also bought one for myself to replace my old Naglene-BPA waterbottle. I recently heard Naglene was coming out with a BPA-free version though.

HTH someone :)

saucymb
04-19-2008, 07:03 PM
www.safemama.com has a very comprehensive list of bottles, sippy cups, pacifiers, and teethers that are BPA free. And lots of other good stuff.

chipscinderelly
04-19-2008, 08:05 PM
Here is another site recommended by baby bargains that has been following the BPA free situation for quite some time http://zrecs.blogspot.com/

It is interesting how this has been around now in the baby world for a while but because of the study it's getting mass media coverage. I think most retailers will stop using it - Walmart is pulling any bottles off their shelves by 2009 that contain BPA.

Personally this will make things easier for us going forward as we are working to eliminate it from our home as best we can.

Kid in Me
04-19-2008, 08:39 PM
Is this BPA found in the newer water bottles? Such a Nalgene? Just curious because I will start cleaning out the cupboards.

chipscinderelly
04-19-2008, 08:45 PM
Is this BPA found in the newer water bottles? Such a Nalgene? Just curious because I will start cleaning out the cupboards.

Nalgene received a lot of press this week - check the bottom of your bottles for the # and then do some web research. Many of the nalgene's are 7's which per the study are bad.

Jen_in_NH
04-19-2008, 08:57 PM
I've heard on the news that most of the plastic Nalgene bottles have it. But I also heard that the BPA leeches out when there is hot liquids in the bottle. So if my son only drinks room temp or cold formula, then he shouldn't be exposed as much?

tjlovespooh
04-19-2008, 09:05 PM
I've heard on the news that most of the plastic Nalgene bottles have it. But I also heard that the BPA leeches out when there is hot liquids in the bottle. So if my son only drinks room temp or cold formula, then he shouldn't be exposed as much?

My understanding of BPA leaching is that it can occur with either hot liquids in the bottle or when the plastic is heated (as in the dishwasher or microwave). So, even if you only use cold liquids the BPA can leach if you wash the bottles in the dishwasher.

Schmeck
04-19-2008, 09:05 PM
Did you all know that the foam in carseats has formaldehyde in it, etc, etc, and that we are still safe using car seats? That's because the amounts are so low tthat it does no more harm than everything else around us...

So, if you want to throw out bottles, go ahead, but throw out your carpet, your couches, the vinyl siding on your houses, the oil-based paints, all your generic medication (because if it's generic it could be from China, which has no controls over what's in the stuff, you know!), don't ride on the highway behind a diesel bus or truck, don't take junior to the playground, and the plastic chairs in schools are toxic too...

USE YOUR COMMON SENSE!

Has BPA been tested and shown to cause harm to humans, or are they just basing this on the 'poison-a-rat-with-it-until-it-dies' type of study?

bunnyscootles
04-19-2008, 09:58 PM
I think this is more about becoming an educated consumer than using your common sense.

Years ago scientist were saying that heating up plastic was a bad idea, especially when it was related to food. I feel like someone finally listened, or a lab rat finally bit the dust or something. Sure there are LOTS of other toxic things in our environment - but (let's say I used bottles) if I KNOW I could switch to something safer then why wouldn't I?

I switched to safer cleaning products when I had a kid, I switched to some organic foods, I made sure our car seat wasn't top 10 for highest toxicity, little things that I'm sure other people think are really worthless, but I feel like make a difference in our lives.

I saw on 20/20 or Dateline (can't remember) they are doing a comparison of two families who live different lifestyles when it comes to this kind of stuff. I'm very interested to see what if any differences there are.

chipscinderelly
04-20-2008, 10:08 AM
The wonderful part of it all is that for those of us who want to not use BPA items we have a choice (as we have had for a while now - this is not new, it's just in the media more) and those who don't care also have a choice.

As a parents I am glad my husband and I have the ability to make these decisions for what we feel is best for our baby. As for common sense - well we're selecting zero VOC paint for the babies room :) .

two-foxes
04-20-2008, 10:09 AM
Here is another site recommended by baby bargains that has been following the BPA free situation for quite some time http://zrecs.blogspot.com/

This is the website I used for most of my research. There are quite a few BPA free products, and I am glad I found one that worked for us.

two-foxes
04-20-2008, 10:20 AM
USE YOUR COMMON SENSE!

Has BPA been tested and shown to cause harm to humans, or are they just basing this on the 'poison-a-rat-with-it-until-it-dies' type of study?

I agree one should use their common sense, however it is a relatively easy switch to BPA free bottles, as there are quite alot to choose from in the market, and more coming out each day. If there is a possiblity of risk to your infant, does it matter if it is a 'poison-a-rat-with-it-until-it-dies' if the ability to switch is easy, and inexpensive (with some research)? I would HATE to find out 20 years from now that BPA is confirmed to adversely affect humans and know that I had a simple option to make a switch with bottles 20 years earlier.....to me that is using common sense.

Oh, and Wal-Mart, who I don't consider to be the most up to date retailer, is banning BPA baby bottles by next year....apparently, there is enough doubt in the safety of BPA for that retailer (of all of them out there) to stop selling the product. Doesn't that make you go, hmmmm. Maybe it would be common sense to stop using BPA?

chicagodisneyfan
04-20-2008, 10:56 AM
Did you all know that the foam in carseats has formaldehyde in it, etc, etc, and that we are still safe using car seats? That's because the amounts are so low tthat it does no more harm than everything else around us...

So, if you want to throw out bottles, go ahead, but throw out your carpet, your couches, the vinyl siding on your houses, the oil-based paints, don't ride on the highway behind a diesel bus or truck, don't take junior to the playground, and the plastic chairs in schools are toxic too...


Anything that can be done to eliminate toxins should be applauded! I have non toxic carpets, floors, and paint. I do not want a child crawling around on a carpet and ingesting chemicals.

two-foxes
04-20-2008, 11:09 AM
Anything that can be done to eliminate toxins should be applauded! I have non toxic carpets, floors, and paint. I do not want a child crawling around on a carpet and ingesting chemicals.
It is great you have been able to do that. Not everyone can afford to make the changes you have, but the point, as I see it, is to make those changes that are feasible in your life that could potentially ensure the continued health of you and your family.

Oh, and had to notice your tag....I figure that is why you have it there for folks to notice. I know, sorry it is a bit off topic.
100% of the time, PROUD to be an American! Don't always love the people in it or their actions, but I am still proud.

mickeywho?
04-20-2008, 11:25 AM
Okay this is long -
Here's my take on this subject. I know many of you may disagree because you think we are "freaking out" over yet another study that tells us the sky is falling. But really we are only trying to educate ourselves to make the healthiest choices for our families. With this much debate there is something to be learned. Over the past few months I've grown a bit alarmed about Bisphenol-A or BPA.

BPA is a chemical compound. It's most often found in Polycarbonate Plastics. Polycarbonate Plastics are those clear plastics you see everywhere. For example, all those Nalgene colored and clear water bottles are made from Polycarbonates. Another common item is over 90% of baby bottles.

So who cares, lots of things are made of plastic. Well, there is a fairly raging debate that BPAs can leach from plastic when heated, and that BPAs can cause all sorts of ails like cancer. Now I don't consider myself an environmentalist, and I certainly realize that in the modern industrial world we live in we are constantly exposed to things that are bad for us; the air we breath, the weather, the hole in the ozone layer, pesticides, global warming and so on. However, this discussion about BPAs has been enough to pique my interest and concern me.

My basic philosophy on these sorts of things is this. If all the "industry funded plastics research" says one thing, and much of the "independent" research says another thing, then something is fishy. For all we know, this is just the very beginning in our understanding of the long term affects of BPA and 20 years from now we'll look back at this and wish we knew more... OR it's perfectly safe and there is nothing to worry about. But when presented with a choice in the matter, I would rather avoid this sort of thing, especially when it concerns my kids health. What I do find scary is the number of pro BPA websites that the plastics industry has already set up to remind us how "safe" it is because the FDA has yet to prove otherwise...

Before I go on I should explain that not all plastics contain BPA, and that you should mainly be concerned with plastics that come in contact with food as the heat is what can accelerate BPA leaching. There are a few kinds of plastics and they can be identified by those little triangled number symbols.

1-PETE Polyethylene Terephthalate No BPA
2-HDPE High-Density Polyethylene (Milk, detergent & oil bottles. Toys and plastic bags.) No BPA
3-PVC Vinyl/Polyvinyl Chloride (Food wrap, vegetable oil bottles, blister packages.) Has BPA
4-LDPE Low-Density Polyethylene (Many plastic bags. Shrink wrap, garment bags.) No BPA
5-PP Polypropylene No BPA
6-PS PS (Throwaway utensils, meat packing, protective packing.) Has BPA
7-Other - Usually layered or mixed plastic. Has BPA

So the past I decided to get rid of my beloved Polycarbonate Nalgene bottles, plastic coffee mugs, or any other form of plastic that we might heat up. We are replacing our tupperware with Pyrex glass storage containers. We replaced all our Nalgene Lexan bottles with the excellent swiss SIGG bottles. You can also opt to use the white Nalgene bottles as they are made from High Density Polyethylene (BPA free).

However, when it came to finding Baby Bottles that weren't made of Polycarbonate things to a bit tougher. Basically you have a few choices:

1. Good old Glass bottles. Evenflo makes them into two sizes (4oz and 8oz)
2. Playtex Original Nurser Polycarbonate bottles with Polypropylene Drop-ins Inserts (the formula goes in the Polypropylene which does not contain BPAs).
3. Born Free (I was actually wondering when a Baby Bottle company would get wise and take advantage of the uncertainty around BPA safety and market this fact). I have yet to try see these for myself, and the web site is not clear about what kind of BPA free plastic they use. update: Whole Foods and Amazon (5oz and 9oz) now carry Born Free Bottles. They are made from a material called Polyamide which appears to be a bio-plastic.
4. Snappies - Polypropylene breast milk storage bottles.
5. Medela breast pump storage containers and baby bottles are all made of Polypropylene

What's also very interesting is that San Francisco just became the first place in the world to ban the use of baby products with BPA effective December 1st 2006.

" Under the proposed ordinance, no product that is intended for use by a child under 3 years of age could be manufactured, sold or distributed in San Francisco if it contains bisphenol A, or BPA, an ingredient in hard, clear polycarbonate plastic. Some forms of phthalate, a chemical that softens plastic, including polyvinyl chloride, or PVC, would also be banned."

" But evidence is mounting that even in low exposure levels, BPA can be dangerous, especially for infants and developing fetuses. BPA is eerily similar to estrogen, the naturally occurring hormone that regulates sexual development, and since the 1990s, early exposure has been linked to a variety of problems, ranging from early puberty and undescended testicles to birth defects like hypospadia. Recently, scientists at the University of Cincinnati and the University of Illinois at Chicago found that exposing newborn rats to low levels of BPA permanently damaged their genes in ways that caused them to develop prostate cancer. Given that BPA tends to concentrate in the placenta and amniotic fluid of pregnant women in five to 10 times the levels found in the average adult, the research raises troubling questions about the potential for prenatal exposure to BPA to cause prostate cancer decades down the line."

As with all animal studies, it remains to be seen how well the findings will apply to humans. But as scientific evidence of the risks accumulates, and as rates of reproductive-system diseases continue to rise, it’s time to take some common-sense measures to limit exposure. For consumers, this means avoiding using cookware or food storage items containing BPA and being especially careful about microwaving plastics, which can cause them to leach BPA at higher levels. For your state legislators, it means following San Francisco’s lead and banning BPA from child-care products.

Our very own (usually slow-moving) canadian government is also working on a law to ban all BPA products from our store shelves nation wide. This is being written to protect children under the age of 3 and pregnant women but hopefully will mean that the plastic industry will sit up and listen.

"The Canadian government has released its Draft Screening Assessment for bisphenol A, which proposed classifying the chemical as "'toxic' to human health and the environment. This action follows Canadian regulators decision in 2006 to select bisphenol A as one of 200 substances deserving of thorough safety assessments after preliminary studies had found it to be 'inherently toxic'; the chemical had not previously been studied by them in depth, having been accepted under grandfather clauses when stricter regulations were passed in the 1980s"

So what can we do? Plastic is impossible to avoid. For starters:
1. Don't microwave in plastics. Use heat-resistant glass containers, Corning Ware or ceramics to microwave all your products, even if it is "microwave safe."
2. Cover food with a paper towel rather than plastic wrap in the microwave. Never microwave baggies.
3. Even organic microwavable foods have plastic coverings. Take two minutes to remove the product from its plastic wrapping and put it in a glass or ceramic bowl before cooking.
4. Don’t drink hot liquids through a straw. Not only will you burn your tongue and throat, but the heat will pull the chemicals from the straw into your coffee.
5. Drink water out of glasses or glass bottles

So it's really very simple. You can do nothing and that's your prerogative. But I think folks should at least know that this debate is brewing, and that you can avoid a potentially harmful chemical if you chose... Why take the risk if you can find a cost effective suitable alternative for you and your child?

Anyway, I hope this information serves useful to someone. I seriously think plastic is an amazing invention, but I also wonder if the plastics industry is in for a lot of scrutiny in the next few decades as people begin to better understand the effects of plastic in our lives.

Schmeck
04-20-2008, 05:55 PM
Could you please identify where you got your quotes from? That would be good "netiquette".

BTW, not only is BPA a chemical compound, almost every part of your body is one too! Water's a chemical compound as well...

What I've been trying to say is that the hysteria over BPA is pathetic - yes, don't use it if you don't want to, but realize that there are many, many, many other chemicals out there that are doing bad things to your body, just getting a tan is bad for you, right? Bug repellant is bad, sunscreen is bad, aluminum cans are bad (especially if an acidic soda has been sitting in it), just about everything out there is bad for you. Make wise choices.

mamaLori05
04-20-2008, 10:24 PM
Hmmmm..... I just have to say that I am a 28 year old mother of two healthy children, and I was fed formula from a heated bottle from the day I was born until about 1 yr old. Guess what.....I'm incredibly healthy and so are my children. No early puberty here. Oh, and my husband was also fed formula from a heated bottle from the day he was born and is also healthy!!

Oh, and back when I was little I remember bouncing around in the back seat of the car with no seat belt, riding my bike without a helmet, roller skating without elbow pads and knee pads, and many other things considered dangerous now. :scared1: Somehow I lived!! Now, my children do sit in car seats and do wear helmets when they ride their bikes, but I refuse to worry about everything I eat. I remember when people thought milk and eggs were bad. Scientists are constantly changing their minds about stuff like this, and I refuse to worry about it. I'll live my life and be happy and what happens happens.

Juliet25
04-20-2008, 10:32 PM
Thanks for the info, MickeyWho. I think this is going to prove to be a big deal. I'm definetely making changes.

RACHELSMOM1
04-20-2008, 10:56 PM
Once again, we are being scared as consumers. The findings in these sort of studies usually turn out to be overstated. The results of any study can be skewed one way or another, depending on the desired results of the testers. My 32 and 27 year old sons were both raised with plastic bottles, and they exhibit no symptoms. My daughters, ages 8, 7 and 4 show no signs of problems from use of plastic bottles - just a few thoughts....

two-foxes
04-20-2008, 10:57 PM
Hmmmm..... I just have to say that I am a 28 year old mother of two healthy children, and I was fed formula from a heated bottle from the day I was born until about 1 yr old. Guess what.....I'm incredibly healthy and so are my children. No early puberty here. Oh, and my husband was also fed formula from a heated bottle from the day he was born and is also healthy!!

Oh, and back when I was little I remember bouncing around in the back seat of the car with no seat belt, riding my bike without a helmet, roller skating without elbow pads and knee pads, and many other things considered dangerous now. :scared1: Somehow I lived!! Now, my children do sit in car seats and do wear helmets when they ride their bikes, but I refuse to worry about everything I eat. I remember when people thought milk and eggs were bad. Scientists are constantly changing their minds about stuff like this, and I refuse to worry about it. I'll live my life and be happy and what happens happens.

Sorry, but that argument, the same one my MIL uses:rolleyes: is just, well, nonsense. You may have been fed from a glass bottle, as I was. I too was formula fed, as the time when you and I were born was an all time low for breast feeding. DS is formula fed now.....not my first choice, but alas, it is where we are at. I don't have a choice at this point. We were all just lucky not to be human torpedos if we had ever been in an accident while bouncing around in that back seat. I know in talking with my mom, she wishes she had the information we are fortunate to have today in regards to what choices she made for me back then.

The point is that research is now pointing a finger at something that millions of parents use daily maybe just could be hazardous to your infant. You have a choice to make a simple change with using a product with an ingredient you don't have to have....it's not like they are saying you must replace your carpet, the car you drive and never eat milk again. They are recommending you simply switch what your kid drinks out of. Please, do not think that those of us choosing to simply switch what containers we feed our children or what we drink from are unhappy, if you were eluding to that. I too, live my life and be happy and switched from Dr Browns to Playtex drop-ins and dumped my Nalgene for a Sigg. Seems kinda simple, huh?

RACHELSMOM1
04-20-2008, 10:58 PM
Hmmmm..... I just have to say that I am a 28 year old mother of two healthy children, and I was fed formula from a heated bottle from the day I was born until about 1 yr old. Guess what.....I'm incredibly healthy and so are my children. No early puberty here. Oh, and my husband was also fed formula from a heated bottle from the day he was born and is also healthy!!

Oh, and back when I was little I remember bouncing around in the back seat of the car with no seat belt, riding my bike without a helmet, roller skating without elbow pads and knee pads, and many other things considered dangerous now. :scared1: Somehow I lived!! Now, my children do sit in car seats and do wear helmets when they ride their bikes, but I refuse to worry about everything I eat. I remember when people thought milk and eggs were bad. Scientists are constantly changing their minds about stuff like this, and I refuse to worry about it. I'll live my life and be happy and what happens happens.

:thumbsup2 I am with you!!! We also drank out of the waterhose outside !!!

PebblesMom
04-21-2008, 04:06 AM
Our lactation consultant told us that if we feed our baby expressed breast milk, do not do it out of a glass bottle. It changes the enzymes in the milk.

Avonlady1001
04-21-2008, 07:49 AM
Hmmmm..... I just have to say that I am a 28 year old mother of two healthy children, and I was fed formula from a heated bottle from the day I was born until about 1 yr old. Guess what.....I'm incredibly healthy and so are my children. No early puberty here. Oh, and my husband was also fed formula from a heated bottle from the day he was born and is also healthy!!

Oh, and back when I was little I remember bouncing around in the back seat of the car with no seat belt, riding my bike without a helmet, roller skating without elbow pads and knee pads, and many other things considered dangerous now. :scared1: Somehow I lived!! Now, my children do sit in car seats and do wear helmets when they ride their bikes, but I refuse to worry about everything I eat. I remember when people thought milk and eggs were bad. Scientists are constantly changing their minds about stuff like this, and I refuse to worry about it. I'll live my life and be happy and what happens happens.

My mother also smoked while pregnant w/ me b/c it was "safe" (and yes, I turned out better than fine)....I have pregnancy books that she saved from the 70s that says drinking alcohol is ok as well.....but does that mean that smoking in many cases does NOT cause low birth weight babies, or that drinking in many cases does NOT cause fetal alcohol syndrome? (Not trying to start a smoking while pregnant debate, please....the warnings on the cig box say enough.)

Those of us reading this and making these decisions now all lived through whatever our parents did and they lived through whatever their parents did...advances in science make new information available all the time, even i it is ever changing. We do the best we can with the information we have. What if they are right about BPA? And if a few simple changes could have prevented what our grown up children may be forced to deal with? The majority of our children will come through just fine. But what if I don't make the changes and my child is one of the ones who is not fine? I'm not willing to take that chance.

How many children were killed in car accidents before they invented car seats? Just because you weren't doesn't mean it is safe without one. How many kids wound up in hospitals brain dead before they made helmets the law? I guess my question is, how many kids will it take with early puberty or breast or prostate cancer as adults before we admit that maybe there is a problem w/ BPA? (if in fact, there is one.)

When our children have children, I can't imagine the things they will have found out. When I babysit my grandchild, what is my daughter going to tell me not to do? Not to use? And I will probably say, "I did it with you and you turned out just fine." LOL

tjlovespooh
04-21-2008, 07:59 AM
:thumbsup2 I am with you!!! We also drank out of the waterhose outside !!!

Well, my mother smoked cigarettes throughout all her pregnancies but I'm certain that she wouldn't do it today if she had known the possible effects it could have on her unborn child.
Basically, when we know better - we can do better. I personally used BPA baby bottles with my first born because there wasn't any buzz about possible side-effects. Now that I have more information available to me I definitely plan on going BPA-free with baby#2. I just don't see any reason not to switch to BPA-free - is it going to have any sort of drastic impact on my lifestyle? Nope, I'll be using bottles - just a different type.
To each his own - everyone makes the best decisions they see fit for their family. :)

Colleen27
04-21-2008, 09:47 AM
Sorry, Born Free Bottles are not great. The nipples collapse, they are NOT good for babies with acid reflux or colic and they are insanely over priced. Just MY experience, however. Of course, I discovered that after spending $100 on them in an effort to ensure my son is not getting BPA from his Avent and Dr Browns bottles. Luckily, Dr. Browns is coming out with a BPA free bottle and they also have glass bottles on the market as well. Although I am not happy with producing the extra waste with Playtex drop ins, they are now my bottle of choice for DS, as they are BPA free and fabulous for acid reflux and colic.

Born Free bottles are also expensive compared to the alternatives. More and more companies are coming out with BPA free bottles, but our solution is an old-fashioned one. Evenflo brought glass bottles back to the market, and that's what we're buying for the new baby. They aren't significantly more expensive than regular (BPA-containing) plastic bottles, and we know they aren't going to start leaching chemicals into her milk.

A good guide to BPA-free products: http://zrecs.blogspot.com/2008/02/z-report-on-bpa-in-infant-care-products.html

There is also an easy shortcut - recycling numbers. Numbers 3, 6 and especially 7 are likely to contain BPA. Numbers 1, 2, 4 & 5 do not. BPA-free bottles are getting easier to find, but we've found that a lot of food storage containers are also made from plastics containing BPA. And in that case, switching actually saved us money - GladWare and other cheap reusables are #5 and BPA-free, while a lot of our much more expensive Tupperware and Rubbermade containers are made with BPA.

grlpwrd
04-21-2008, 10:04 AM
Anything that can be done to eliminate toxins should be applauded! I have non toxic carpets, floors, and paint. I do not want a child crawling around on a carpet and ingesting chemicals.

Like you and many others, this is not news to me. Absolutely - anything that can be done to eliminate toxins should be applauded. :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2 I am very glad that the OP started this thread. People need to be kept informed.

I "live green" and I frequent many sites (like mothering.com :hippie: ) and read a lot on this subject. I have also been studying signal transduction. Anything chemical or basically unnatural to the body can affect our physiology. Of course, this is not news to people who live "green."

I can't recall if Schmeck is a chemist or not, but the threat is real. How anyone can even question our reasons and act like we're in a mass hysteria is beyond me. :confused3 We are free to choose what is best for our families and our earth with what we know now. I don't understand what business is that of your's if you don't pay our bills or have to deal with any adverse consequences. :confused:

Peace out... :)

Princess_Michelle
04-21-2008, 10:24 AM
My 32 and 27 year old sons were both raised with plastic bottles, and they exhibit no symptoms. My daughters, ages 8, 7 and 4 show no signs of problems from use of plastic bottles - just a few thoughts....

Well, my 27 year old SIL was the only one, out of 4, fed with formula heated up in a bottle, and she has a brain tumor. There is NO family history, and she is otherwise healthy.... just a thought.....

Belle72
04-21-2008, 11:02 AM
I don't believe that this is mass hysteria. I think people are looking to be informed. My dd was on the Avent bottles which had BPA in them. I was always a little skeptical about plastics, but, unfortunately didn't know about BPA's. I am troubled now with the latest news- not hysterical, but troubled. I know have enough information to conclude that I do not want to use BPA products with my son and will try to limit exposure to all plastics- choosing safer alternatives when possible. My pediatric dentist is has stopped doing sealants on teeth. This is not hysteria- it is being cautious and trying to do the best thing for our children. I agree that there are many other potential harmfuls out there- carpets, cookware etc... but the OP was posting about baby bottles and BPA.

The medical community has seen allergies, asthma and other autoimmune diseases rise unexplicably. Seems probable that it is our environment. It just seems smart to me to make changes where you can.

kidshop
04-21-2008, 01:03 PM
In case it hasn't been mentioned, breastfeeding is also an option to reduce our infants exposure to BPA. I would hope this is also considered as an alternative rather than just non-BPA bottles. I encourage everyone to look into that option when considering infant feeding. Breastfeeding has many, many pluses.

Princess_Michelle
04-21-2008, 01:23 PM
Once again, we are being scared as consumers. The findings in these sort of studies usually turn out to be overstated. The results of any study can be skewed one way or another, depending on the desired results of the testers. My 32 and 27 year old sons were both raised with plastic bottles, and they exhibit no symptoms. My daughters, ages 8, 7 and 4 show no signs of problems from use of plastic bottles - just a few thoughts....

I have a certain family member who drives while drinking (or under the influence) quite frequently, but has never got into an accident. I am always nagging this person about how incredibly dangerous this is, but hey, now that I know studies might be skewed, and b/c nothing has happened YET.... maybe there's no danger in it after all!! Whew, thanks for making me feel better!! :rolleyes:

mickeywho?
04-21-2008, 02:00 PM
The first time I heard about this danger was from my mother telling me not to store our cases of water bottles in the garage in the summer as harmful chemicals would leach and cause cancer. Well - I rolled my eyes and told her to spend less of her retirement reading scarey news reports and more time actually enjoying herself. I thought nothing else of it until I began noticing similar reports about baby bottles - well my youngest is 7 so that doesn't affect me, right? If something is dangerous wouldn't our governments protect us - at least tell us about these toxins? Aren't things tested to prove they're safe? I thought so until I packed off a shopping bag full of Thomas trains that were covered in lead paint. These were bought over 10 years ago and well played with. Should I keep them in my home now even if my kids seem fine and must not be affected? Was removing them a "pathetic" over-reaction?
I'll repeat that the canadian government have recently completed a 2-year testing of BPA - they did not do so in the interests of the plastics industry or the environmental groups.
From the Health Canada website:
"The Honourable Tony Clement, Minister of Health, and the Honourable John Baird, Minister of the Environment, today announced that the Government is taking action to protect the health of Canadians and the environment from another chemical of concern.
Canada is the first country in the world to complete a risk assessment of bisphenol A in consultation with industry and other stakeholders, and to initiate a 60 day public comment period on whether to ban the importation, sale and advertising of polycarbonate baby bottles which contain bisphenol A"
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/nr-cp/2008/2008_59_e.html

BPA is toxic. Ignore our advice if you want. But please do not call our concerns pathetic and we will not call your lack of reaction and concern ignorant.
As parents we all make mistakes - none of us are perfect. But when we know better we should do better - we should err on the side of caution - what's the harm in that? Especially since it means such a small change can make such a big impact.
We may not know the harm this may have caused until our children or our grandchildren begin having health issues. Is it really worth ignoring this because it's not affecting you today?

celticlad
04-21-2008, 02:31 PM
I only have a minute, so I'll be quick....

Red meat, eggs, chocolate, wine, sugar and butter are all natural things that are not genetically modified (well, if you buy the right brands, anyways) and all the items, or ingredients, and are only harmful to you when not eaten in moderation.

I try to eat/use things that are all natural and free from processing...all I can do is try, it's better than just sitting back and throwing my hands up in the air and digging into a Big Mac everyday b/c "I just can't win, and I'm gonna die anyways". :confused3

I enjoy a meal out too, sometimes, but now that I am knowledgable about what I am eating...I choose different restaurants, don't go out quite as much, and only eat small portions of what I'm given, simply b/c I know how many calories are in chain restaurant food.

I also gave my son formula b/c I had a hard time breastfeeding. I did it b/c I was told that it was perfectly healthy and there was nothing harmful about it. Nobody told me that the cans were lined with this stuff! Noone told me the bottles I was using (and warming in the microwave) were toxic! Now that I have been informed, then yes, it would be lazy for me to just give it to my next kid anyways. At the very least, if I couldn't breastfeed, I should go out and find bottles/formula that do NOT contain the substance.

I don't have to worry about what I encounter when I go on vacation b/c I live so healthy year round, that encountering crap a few days a year, doesn't bother me.

I live my life just fine, and I don't always think of what could kill me, I just think of what is better for me and my family, and shop accordingly. As a matter of fact, I feel great b/c of eating so healthy.... I'm losing weight, my cholesterol and triglycerides are going down and my good cholesterol is going up, and I save money b/c we don't buy tons of junk at the store and don't go out to eat as much. I have way more energy to go out and live my life.... speaking of which... I need to go, we're off to the park!

american farmers pump their cows full of steroids.eggs are hoaching with bacteria etc...

everything contains chemicals, you are a big bag of 'em.

explain to me the phrase "man made" - impossible we don't create at the atomic level, every chemical we use can be found in nature.

every single one.

celticlad
04-21-2008, 02:37 PM
Anything that can be done to eliminate toxins should be applauded! I have non toxic carpets, floors, and paint. I do not want a child crawling around on a carpet and ingesting chemicals.

what? even O2??

chipscinderelly
04-21-2008, 03:08 PM
american farmers pump their cows full of steroids.eggs are hoaching with bacteria etc...

everything contains chemicals, you are a big bag of 'em.

explain to me the phrase "man made" - impossible we don't create at the atomic level, every chemical we use can be found in nature.

every single one.

Some of us buy organic :)

Seriously for those families that are not worried about this it's ok to not post here in the thread. We won't fault you for making your own choice. That's all we are asking - to make our own choices!

RACHELSMOM1
04-21-2008, 03:44 PM
I have a certain family member who drives while drinking (or under the influence) quite frequently, but has never got into an accident. I am always nagging this person about how incredibly dangerous this is, but hey, now that I know studies might be skewed, and b/c nothing has happened YET.... maybe there's no danger in it after all!! Whew, thanks for making me feel better!! :rolleyes:

Not a very good analogy. You can't compare my children with drunk drivers just because they drank from plastic baby bottles!!! :rotfl2: And, I just was expessing an opinion, not trying to make YOU feel better or worse. I am 53 years old, and I have heard it all in my lifetime, and skepticism is the first reaction when I hear anything like this. Yes, my children are all normal, and I heated their formulas (yes, the dreaded formulas) in plastic bottles (oldest is 32, then there is the 27 yr old, then 8, 7, and 4 yrs old) - no adverse side effects from baby bottles!! :rolleyes1 back to you...

Colleen27
04-21-2008, 04:08 PM
In case it hasn't been mentioned, breastfeeding is also an option to reduce our infants exposure to BPA. I would hope this is also considered as an alternative rather than just non-BPA bottles. I encourage everyone to look into that option when considering infant feeding. Breastfeeding has many, many pluses.

I don't think that's likely to get much mention simply because even breastfeeding mommas usually have some need for bottles, whether because they work or to give dad/older siblings/other family a chance to help with feeding or just so Mom can get a break now and then. I breastfed both my kids and will breastfeed this one too, but I'm still buying BPA-free bottles (and a BPA-free breast pump) because I know that there will be times when the baby will have expressed milk for one reason or another.

Colleen27
04-21-2008, 04:15 PM
Not a very good analogy. You can't compare my children with drunk drivers just because they drank from plastic baby bottles!!! :rotfl2: And, I just was expessing an opinion, not trying to make YOU feel better or worse. I am 53 years old, and I have heard it all in my lifetime, and skepticism is the first reaction when I hear anything like this. Yes, my children are all normal, and I heated their formulas (yes, the dreaded formulas) in plastic bottles (oldest is 32, then there is the 27 yr old, then 8, 7, and 4 yrs old) - no adverse side effects from baby bottles!! :rolleyes1 back to you...

And that's great that you haven't personally experienced any negative effects, but that doesn't negate the increased risks. There are plenty of smokers who will never experience emphysema or lung cancer, plenty of alcoholics who will never develop liver problems, plenty of kids who grew up in homes with lead paint who didn't suffer neurological effects, plenty of people who have unprotected sex and never catch a disease. That doesn't make those things safe. It just makes those people lucky.

With the exploding rates of severe allergies, autism, learning disabilities, ADHD, childhood onset mental illness, etc. that we're seeing in the younger generations, I personally can't see dismissing research on environmental toxins as unworthy of action, especially when the action is something as simple as buying a different brand of baby bottle.

mamaLori05
04-21-2008, 04:39 PM
:thumbsup2 I am with you!!! We also drank out of the waterhose outside !!!

HAHA! We still do!

Princess_Michelle
04-21-2008, 06:47 PM
And that's great that you haven't personally experienced any negative effects, but that doesn't negate the increased risks. There are plenty of smokers who will never experience emphysema or lung cancer, plenty of alcoholics who will never develop liver problems, plenty of kids who grew up in homes with lead paint who didn't suffer neurological effects, plenty of people who have unprotected sex and never catch a disease. That doesn't make those things safe. It just makes those people lucky.

With the exploding rates of severe allergies, autism, learning disabilities, ADHD, childhood onset mental illness, etc. that we're seeing in the younger generations, I personally can't see dismissing research on environmental toxins as unworthy of action, especially when the action is something as simple as buying a different brand of baby bottle.

A-freaking-MEN!!!!!!!!

And to a PP, yes, I know what some farmer's do to their cattle... that's why I buy Organic meats from my local butcher, and the rest of my food from Whole Foods or Trader Joes, again, it's all about INFORMED consumerism....

Schmeck
04-21-2008, 07:34 PM
Mickeywho?, thank you for posting a link with your info!

To the poster who asked, yes, I have a college degree in biology, minor+ in chemistry (one credit short of a bachelor's degree) and a minor in mathematics and physics as well.

My last input - don't buy the bottles if it bothers you. But just realize that you are surrounded by 'bad stuff', and this one relevation really doesn't make too big of a dent in the scheme of things.

sorul82?
04-21-2008, 09:12 PM
Of course since reading about all this, I have been going around looking at the bottom of everything plastic. I thought I read that #1's did contain BPA? What about items that don't have a # or the number is without the triangle? Does this pertain to just hard clear plastics or soft bottles like Deer Park or Dasani as well?

mickeywho?
04-21-2008, 09:52 PM
Of course since reading about all this, I have been going around looking at the bottom of everything plastic. I thought I read that #1's did contain BPA? What about items that don't have a # or the number is without the triangle? Does this pertain to just hard clear plastics or soft bottles like Deer Park or Dasani as well?

Here's a list I found that may help

http://www.checnet.org/healtheHouse/pdf/plasticchart.pdf

Most pop and disposable water bottles are #1. My Tropicana Orange Juice jugs (white plastic) are #7 so I'll switch back to cartons. My ketchup bottle was #1 but the relish bottle was #7. So within the same manufacturer they don't even stay consistant! I'm thinking maybe the manufacturers need to list what the packaging is made of along with their ingredients charts. Uh! So much to look for when grocery shopping now...

PebblesMom
04-21-2008, 11:59 PM
Thanks mickeywho? I went through all of my bottles today! I did find a lot that had nothing on them (mostly baby bottles). That link answered a lot of my questions! I just bought new ones a few days ago and they have the triangle, but no number inside and they were not on the list, so not sure about those! It is times like this that I wish I was able to breastfeed! :headache:

mickeywho?
04-22-2008, 02:43 PM
You're welcome! It's wasn't a complete list but had quite a few common items. If you are not sure about a product in your home try contacting the manufacturer (many have 1-800 customer service #s) and hopefully you'll find some answers.
I'm completely frustrated by the amount of snack cups (like the dole jello cups) that have the #7 on the bottoms - those foods are meant for children and should be considered banned as well as the baby bottles. I having a tough time finding similar foods for my kids school lunches that don't have BPA.

Grendalynn
04-27-2008, 01:07 PM
:confused3 ....My last input - don't buy the bottles if it bothers you. But just realize that you are surrounded by 'bad stuff', and this one relevation really doesn't make too big of a dent in the scheme of things.

I agree! No matter what we do and how hard we try there is "bad stuff" everywhere! Unfortunatly, ts a fact of life these days. Did anyone catch the segment on toxins and all of this on Dateline or whatever the nightly nws show was last week? they interviewed 3 families - Organic/naturalists, regular every day folks who were aware of all this bad stuff, and a familywho could "careless".... they ALL had toxin in heir blood. All different types but they all had it. It just goes to show that no matter how hard we try and how aare of all the we are -its life. Unless we live in the middle of the dessert, totally self contained, self sufficient we are subjected in on way, shape or another. :surfweb:

Of course since reading about all this, I have been going around looking at the bottom of everything plastic. I thought I read that #1's did contain BPA? What about items that don't have a # or the number is without the triangle? Does this pertain to just hard clear plastics or soft bottles like Deer Park or Dasani as well?

Me too!! I even posted my own thread regarding BPA levels having not seen this one... Thanks Mickeywho? Here is what I posted:


I have read a lot and heard a lot in the news about the BPA numbers on plastic bottles and cups. I am not quite sure what to think of it all. It can't be good if its all over the news and the Canadian Governmnet is taking stronger actions.

With that being said, I started looking at all our plastics in our cupboards yesterday and was sad to see that some of our Disney cup had bad numbers... From our most recent trip to WDW in April our refillable YOMD mugs have a PP 5 on them, and the Peter Pan/Pirate Punch cups, a mickey sippy with sparkley water are a BPAs of 7.... and a playtex Little Einsteins insulated sippy has a 5...

Most all of our baby bottles and sippy cups should be thrown out as well, as well as all my Nalgene bottles. I am not one to recycle water bottles or things like that, maybe once in the freezer from Spring Sports then pitch it. And i rarely, ok never, put anything plastic in the microwave - glass or ceramic only. Is anyone esle taking procaution and pictching all of this??? I try not to jump to conclusions, but this seems serious??? Anyone have any insight on all of this?


http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1806362

I have read allof the posts on the thread and have gained a lot of useful info. It just makes me wondrer why these big companies are still making items with these toxns and what the companys are going to do for consumers who have faithfully bought ther goods.... Its a never ending story with no good answers I am afraid. But I am def. very aware of the whole Triangle delima now!

lilybrooke14
04-27-2008, 01:36 PM
Okay, I haven't read the whole thread, but I did read the first few pages. Sorry if any of the information I've got is a repeat though.

I do know for certain that Babies R Us, and all of the major bottle companies are phasing out all bottles containing BPA, and it should be completed by the end of 2008. It's voluntary, not mandatory. BBRU carries Born Free, Adiri, all drop in bottles, the new Dr. Browns (you can tell because they are cloudy, as opposed to the old clear ones), and all glass bottles, none of which have BPA. Colored bottles are also supposed to be free of the chemical (because it's the chemical that's supposed to make the plastic clear.)

Keep an eye out though, because there are some bottle warmers, bottle brushes, and various other baby accessories that contain BPA as well. If you're shopping at BBRU, they have lists of all of the infant care products that CONTAIN the chemical, and all of the bottles that DON'T CONTAIN the chemical. I cannot speak for formula, but I do know about the bottles etc.

Hope that helps a little.:flower3:

princessmom29
04-27-2008, 10:55 PM
So glad I breastfed all of mine! How in the world can some factory make anything as good for babies as what God made my body to make? Plus, it was free and I never once with four kids had to go to the kitchen in the middle of the night and fix them a bottle while they screamed. Mommy is always ready!
I know some moms really cannot breastfeed, and it is not easy (you have to work at it a little and it is harder to leave the baby and get away) but I am always amazed at how many moms don't want to breastfeed. I always looked forward to it, it was a natural part of my mothering instincts!
My dh and I and all of our siblings were bottle fed. When formula was new doctors told moms "Don't bother breastfeeding, just go buy that stuff they make in factories now. You're FREE!" YUK!!
Besides, breast milk is sweet and formula tastes like chalk. Try it.....

It is statments like this that make mothers like me who are medically unable to breastfeed (I don't produce breastmilk) feel like we are letting our children down somehow and are horrible parents!!!!!

Some of us buy organic :)

Seriously for those families that are not worried about this it's ok to not post here in the thread. We won't fault you for making your own choice. That's all we are asking - to make our own choices!

I hate to tell you this but totally "organic" food is impossible. Everything you consume has come into contact in some way with something you object to. Farmers cannot certify that the water that they give their animals is totally free of pesticide or drug residues unless they are buying it bottled. They cannot cretify that some smog did not drift into the air that those cows breathed. As a chemist I can tell you that the residue levels in organic vs not organic food is negligable. AWith the exception of surface residues that can be removed by washing all of the studies I have seen say that there is little difference with the exception of a few antibiotics that are being phased out anyway. Organic food is just the latest "let's make a bigger profit" scheme from the food industry and the pubilc is buying in hook line and sinker. We gladly shell out twice as much for tomatoes of beef b/c it makes us feel better about ourselves We can say "look what I am doing for my family" and look down on everyone who doesn't by organic simply because they can't afford to. I for one will no longer by into this for of elitism. I did the research.

Karlzmom
04-27-2008, 10:58 PM
I just read the following article and just HAD to post this so all the families could see it:

Baby Formula Bottles Often Toxic (http://medheadlines.com/2008/04/16/baby-formula-bottles-often-toxic/)

The article basically says that if you fed your baby formula, you just basically gave them toxic food! This is the paragraph that really got my attention:



Then followed by:


And finally... this is what they say happens if your child ingests BPA:


Unfortunately, the article does not go any further to state what these companies plan to do to prevent future use of BPA lined products. I don't even know what else to say about this issue... but I just felt the need to get the word out, because this is pretty bad news for those who cannot breast feed their babies and rely on formula to feed them.

..makes me all the more grateful for our 16month exclusive nursing diet! BTW, this is slightly on-topic with Disney, the nursing rooms in the child care centers rock!!

chipscinderelly
04-28-2008, 06:44 PM
It is statments like this that make mothers like me who are medically unable to breastfeed (I don't produce breastmilk) feel like we are letting our children down somehow and are horrible parents!!!!!



I hate to tell you this but totally "organic" food is impossible. Everything you consume has come into contact in some way with something you object to. Farmers cannot certify that the water that they give their animals is totally free of pesticide or drug residues unless they are buying it bottled. They cannot cretify that some smog did not drift into the air that those cows breathed. As a chemist I can tell you that the residue levels in organic vs not organic food is negligable. AWith the exception of surface residues that can be removed by washing all of the studies I have seen say that there is little difference with the exception of a few antibiotics that are being phased out anyway. Organic food is just the latest "let's make a bigger profit" scheme from the food industry and the pubilc is buying in hook line and sinker. We gladly shell out twice as much for tomatoes of beef b/c it makes us feel better about ourselves We can say "look what I am doing for my family" and look down on everyone who doesn't by organic simply because they can't afford to. I for one will no longer by into this for of elitism. I did the research.

I hope I misunderstood your post as I was not being "elitist" or even trying to say that. ALL I was doing was providing another solution. Sure, everything has chemicals, but if we want to feed our family hormone free milk and beef then that's a great option for us. I really do hope I misunderstood your post as I don't want to be attacked for presenting another option. Just providing another alternative and your post did upset me - please no attacks on anyone in this thread! (Sprouts grocery is the same price in our area for produce that is organic vs Tom Thumb which is not).

princessmom29
04-28-2008, 10:10 PM
I hope I misunderstood your post as I was not being "elitist" or even trying to say that. ALL I was doing was providing another solution. Sure, everything has chemicals, but if we want to feed our family hormone free milk and beef then that's a great option for us. I really do hope I misunderstood your post as I don't want to be attacked for presenting another option. Just providing another alternative and your post did upset me - please no attacks on anyone in this thread! (Sprouts grocery is the same price in our area for produce that is organic vs Tom Thumb which is not).


I think that you partially did misunderstand what I said. Note I said WE in my post. I am including myself here. At one point I did buy organic, but after doing my research and really considering my motives I came to the conclusion that I was buying into something just because it was trendy, not because it was any better for us. Your post was in response to someone who like me chooses not to buy organic, and it came off to me as if you were looking down on them for doing so. I was simply pointing out that I at one point bought into the attitude that buying organic made me a better mom and I was somehow more educated and informed than those who didn't. I am sorry if that was not your intention, but that is how ther post read for me.

Avonlady1001
04-29-2008, 08:13 AM
Getting back on the subject of BPA in Bottles:

As a demonstration of our commitment to you, we are offering free samples of the Playtex®
Drop-Ins® Original Nurser System, which are BPA-free.

Please fill out the form below to receive your free Playtex® Drop-Ins® Original Nurser System.

http://www.playtexbaby.com/bpafree/info.html

chipscinderelly
04-29-2008, 10:00 AM
I think that you partially did misunderstand what I said. Note I said WE in my post. I am including myself here. At one point I did buy organic, but after doing my research and really considering my motives I came to the conclusion that I was buying into something just because it was trendy, not because it was any better for us. Your post was in response to someone who like me chooses not to buy organic, and it came off to me as if you were looking down on them for doing so. I was simply pointing out that I at one point bought into the attitude that buying organic made me a better mom and I was somehow more educated and informed than those who didn't. I am sorry if that was not your intention, but that is how ther post read for me.

Actually my response was to another poster who has regularly taken this thread away from BPA and other concerns by attempting to say that those of us who choose to make this decision were making a wrong choice. I answered part of their post with my comment - not yours or anyone else's. All those of us who are concerned about BPA were asking was to have somewhere to go speak about the concerns and information. Organic may be great for some and not so great for others. It's each of our individual choices.