GAC Useless in Somecases!!!! [Archive] - The DIS Discussion Forums

wtlivesey

04-06-2008, 11:34 AM

This is my first post, but I felt compelled to express some trouble we had recently with the GAC card on our visit to the World in late Feb, early March of 08. My wife was diagnosed with MS in Sept of 07 and this was our first trip to Disney since her diagnois, we are huge fans and were married there in 99. We are a young couple in our mid-thirties, so to look at my wife she doesn't look sick at all. Her issues with MS are fatigue from stading too long and heat. So I spent the few months before preparing for the trip by reading up and listing to all the podcasts I could find regarding guests with disabilites, the DISunplugged was invaluable for this. So I found out about the GAC card. Since this is all new to my wife she had decided that she wasn't ready to give up and us any type of wheelchair or EVC?, I think that's right. We had made a deal that if the first day she felt she needed it we would but she at least wanted that. My compromise was the GAC, so she agreed.

Our first day was Epcot, we went to the guest relations and explained the situation, was given the GAC with no trouble. My wife had decided that she would only use it if she felt she needed to, she would not abuse it in anyway. So that first day she only used it twice, once at Spaceship Earth and again at Testtrack, both with no trouble. We thought WOW what a great thing, we could have used at a few other spots but my wife didn't want to abuse it. The next time we went to use it was at Hollywood Studios, this is where it became useless, along with the Magic Kingdom, but we'll get to that. We went to use it at the Backlot Tour, we were told there was no seperate answer, and that we would have to stand for the 10 min preshow, well this is too long for my wife to stand, we explined to the castmember at the entrance and was told there was nothing that could be done, I don't understand why we couldn't be ushered past the preshow, we've seen it, and even if we hadn't we were willing to miss it. Told it wasn't possible. So we walked away, my wife in tears, one of her favorites, and it was the first time she was turned away from anything since her diagnoses. We next went to the Lights Action Stunt show, they were very accomdating there, let us sit in the handcapped since my wife would have had trouble with steps. The even tried to dry our seats, it was raining that day. Next we hit The Great Movie Ride, again no trouble, were led right to the handicapped entrance, and seated so she wouldn't have to stand while the rest of the car was loaded.
Now comes the worse and most useless of days. We attened Magic Kingdom, we actually went twice but I will combine the two visits. We attempted to use the GAC at Pirates, twice, the first time we were told to stay to the left, someone would meet us, no one was there. A second time a few days later we returned to Pirates and apporached the two cast members at the entrance, they looked at the cue time above them and told us since the wait time was only 10 min would could just join the rest of the cue, and then they returned to the conversation I guess we interruppted. We again tried to use it at the Haunted Mansion, again we were told that since the que was only 10 min we could use the regular cue, again a roughly 10 min preshow, in which my wife got sick due to the heat, and standing, so the rest of the day she was pretty shot.
After the second problem at Pirates we went to gues relations to see what the GAC was for, when we asked the castmember gave us the canned speech, and we interrupted her and told her no that wasn't what it was for and told her what had happened, after a few mintues she went to her "manager" whom we never saw, and we were told not every attraction is up to ADA (American's with Disablities) or that some it is really quicker to go through the regular que then wait for assistance. At this point I was pretty irate, and beginning to believe that Disney wasn't a good idea to bring my wife. As we told the numerous castmembers we spoke with at guest relations it was almost as if since my wife didn't show a visable disability she they were kind of blowing us off. I mean the whole point of the card was so that my wife wouldn't need a wheelchair, as she told me she wasn't ready to give up at this point, and knew that if she took her time and rested where she could she could get through it, and in most cases she was right, however after this trip she's not sure how she feels about Disney, this is a women that half our home is decorated in Mickey, now whe debated whether or not she wants to go back. Six months of getting use to dealing on a daily basis with MS was destroyed by the way she was treated at the place she thought would be the last place she would be treated differently.

Sorry this was so long, but I just wanted everyone who was thinking of getting a GAC to be prepared for the possiblities. I do want to say that in some cases the castmembers were great with us, one that defintly sticks out is the young man the the Indy Speedway, he took his time and personally escorted us to the entrance and to the shaded overhang.

KPeveler

04-06-2008, 12:09 PM

since i was not there with you, i cant really speak about your experiences, but recently it has been the trend at disney to have people with endurance concerns to use a wheelchair or scooter when standing gets to be too much. that way she can do the preshows and everything.

i know a wheelchair can seem like giving up - but at disney, it is sometimes necessary. i have several invisible illnesses, and i am only 23, so i know also that it is hard to convince people you're really sick... honestly it may be easier in the future for her to rent a scooter, and just use it when she needs it. its not easy, but it seems that the ability to bypass lines (for any reason) using a GAC is not very common now.

on the other hand, you should not have had a problem bypassing the first part of backstage tour, the part with the water tank and the boat - i passed it last time. however, the "preshow" about pearl harbor is not really a preshow, but the line with some TVs... so that she would probly have had to wait in anyway.

i believe, and sue can correct me if i am wrong, that if your needs can be met with a wheelchair or scooter (which your wife's may have been - i cannot really say since i do not know you), then a GAC is not issued or really used... but i may be wrong...

livndisney

04-06-2008, 12:15 PM

I am sorry you wife did not fully enjoy your vacation. I don't know that the issues you had, had anything to do with your wife not have a "visible" need. I am in similar position as your wife physically, at some point I may not have a choice and will need to be an a wheelchair/ECV. That said, I am not sure what you were looking for the GAC to do for you. Disney's answer to mobility needs is to "rent a wheelchair/ECV" so you are sitting VS. standing in lines.

I would think the reason you were not "allowed" to bypass the "preshow" water show area at the Backlot is the fact that they load the trams in a timed system and the line is wheelchair/ECV accesibile (ADA complaint). There is no need for a seperate entrance.

As far as the line at Haunted Mansion, several people have mentioned having trouble. But again had your wife been in a wheelchair, she would not have had to stand. I know the "regular" line at HM is shaded and I think has fans.

I have not used a GAC at Pirates, so I cannot comment on that.

I know that for me, without the GAC the parks would no longer be possible. But I also know they GAC does not mean I get "special" treatment or get to go right to the front of the line. The GAC is meant to provide "equal" access to WDW. Yes, there are problems with it, and they are CM's that need some more training. But I think WDW does an outstanding making it possible for me to spend time in the parks with my DD.

:grouphug: to you wife. And I hope your next trip is better.

KPeveler

04-06-2008, 12:44 PM

Since this is all new to my wife she had decided that she wasn't ready to give up and us any type of wheelchair or EVC?, I think that's right.

I mean the whole point of the card was so that my wife wouldn't need a wheelchair, as she told me she wasn't ready to give up at this point,

on a purely personal note, i want to say i am uncomfortable with the idea that you believe using a wheelchair (in disney only, as this is what we are talking about) is giving up. in that case, i gave up. so did most of us here. using a wheelchair is NOT giving up. it is no different than using medications to deal with pain. it is a tool to allow you to enjoy daily life. i DO see how a wheelchair is a scary thing to require (i fight that battle everyday), but perhaps seeing a wheelchair not as "giving up" but simply living life would make your next disney trip easier.

it is not easy living with an invisible illness, and i know it is hard to accept. if your wife is newly diagnosed, then it is even more scary. however, in my uderstanding, the GAC is not there to help people avoid using wheelchairs. what did the CM at GR say the GAC was for? sometimes they are misinformed. however, it is not designed to allow you to bypass lines, if a wheelchair will help... i think perhaps more information all the way around next time may be helpful... hopefully your next trip will be easier!

MightyMom

04-06-2008, 01:10 PM

I can tell from your tone that you are still very disturbed by your trip. I'm sorry that WDW did not live up to your expectations.... when you live with a disability or love someone with a disability it can be difficult adjusting to the changes you need to make in your life.

I think your wife would have had an amazing time had she "given up" and rented a wheelchair.

I hope I don't overstep my bounds in saying this..... but I think the bigger obstacle is not the GAC being useless.... I think it is your mentality that using a wheelchair is a sign of weakness.

Sometimes in life it is a necessity.... and I think at WDW a wheelchair is very necessary when someone has a stamina issue like your wife does.

Listen... I really feel for you because I have been in your shoes....except it is my 9 year old son who is disabled. When he was first diagnosed I FOUGHT getting a wheelchair..... I put him in a stroller.... I carried him.... I just didn't want to get a wheelchair. I finally ordered one.... and when I put him in it for the first time I realized he was finally independent! He didn't rely on me anymore! So as "confining" as a wheelchair seems.... it can provide mobility, independence and endurance for someone who might not have it otherwise.

Cheshire Figment

04-06-2008, 01:24 PM

I am sorry but the normal recommendation, both officially as well as unofficialy, is that if a person has stamina and/or mobility problems they should rent a wheelchair or ECV. The GAC is not designed to allow a person to skip lines (or a preshow).

Unfortunately you may have paid attention to the podcasts, but did you come here to disABILITIES, and especially did you read the disABILITIES FAQs? Or did you get a book, such as The Open Mouse, which specializes in discussion of touring WDW with disabilities?

Mrsjvb

04-06-2008, 01:45 PM

Re: giving up.

My first day( AK) I thought I could do it all on foot. By noon it was obvious that I was incorrect in my assumption. I too have an invisible disability..an auto immune disease.

Had I not acquiesced to the DH's insisting that we get a wheelchair for me for the remainder of our week long stay, I would have ended up spending the third day on in bed unable to function at all. completely ruining our anniversary and vacation.

It isn't giving up, it's adjusting your needs accordingly.

Piper

04-06-2008, 02:10 PM

I understand exactly where your wife is coming from. My doctor tried to get me to get a wc for about a year before I "gave up" and did.
I see that you researched the GAC and wheelchair. I didn't have that support. My family encouraged me to push myself.
I did not want to "let my family down" by giving in to my illness. Instead, I actually made myself worse. Wow! I regret that year. When I finally got the wc, I was overjoyed at how much it enriched my life.

I think not wanting to "let go" of your "normal" life is common. You just have to grieve for what is lost and then pick yourself up from there. You may find that you have gained far more than you've lost.

goofieslonglostsis

04-06-2008, 02:21 PM

First, let me say I'm so sorry both of you had such a hard time this trip!

However, Disney is pretty clear when it comes to these kinds of things. First use the standard available aids/lines etc and not untill after they do not meet a need enough/at all, they will try to accomodate a guests need with a GAC. In her case, the wheelchair would've lifted about 99,9% of the problems she ran into.

On another level; using a wheelchair is not giving up. Giving up is sitting at home, crying and knitting a doormat saying 'welcome Death', waiting until Death comes and gets you. Using a wheelchair when you're about to do something that is to hard on the body to do 'standardly' is not only not giving up, but it is actually taking care of your body and health.

Now, I realize it might sound like 'yeah, that's easy to say, but.........'. Getting a diagnosis is shocking enough and dealing with the (idea of) change of all of your future dreams and hopes is difficult. But really, really! Don't judge it untill you've tried it. It's a different world. It isn't giving up, it isn't pathetic, it isn't abusing an illness or need, it is giving the user Freedom with a very big capital F.

From personal experience? I've been using a manual chair since the age of 19. Never bothered me, as I could see the benefits and decided to treat it like another piece of clothing. Pimping it to my style, that kinda stuff. I did more or less 'everything' with that chair, or as far as my health allowed. Then came the so dreaded day that I realized those around me were right and I was wrong. The time had long came that I needed a powerchair. Oh boy oh boy! I was mad, furious and sad. It felt like the rotten thing ruined everything. How could I travel with it, people would treat me differently, all my dream would go up in smoke.

Well, lets fast forward. While I still hate the ugly look of the darned Elmo (nickname for the powerchair), it has given me freedom. I can now do things again that I couldn't have for too long. I did what was my definition of a 'full' day at the park, 7 days in a row without getting to the point of being in a park and wondering 'how the h*ll am I ever going to get back to the room, I'm so tired and in so much pain'. And to get to WDW? I flew half way round the world, so that shout my fear of not travelling no more. The chair gives me range of motion beyond believe. No longer am I dependant on others for that. The chair reduces pain and let's me conserve energy for nicer stuff than boring pushing my manual chair. Yeah, some people look weird at me, but maybe that's because I tend to be a rolling diva? :thumbsup2 The conclusion is plain and simple; I was cheating myself -and therefor everybody in my surrounding!!- out of getting the best out of my life.

Really, for these very very energy consuming things like a WDW-park I'ld advice her to 'go crazy' and give a wheelchair or ECV an honest chance. It'll make a world of difference. No worry about 'will I be able to rest/sit somewhere'. No worry when something happens when she's in line that makes the line longer than expected. More energy left she can use for getting around the resort, restaurants etc. Give it an honest try before judging it. It isn't just a bad foul thing. It's an option that has many many good sides.

pigletforever

04-06-2008, 02:30 PM

Strange about the Back Lot Tour. Our son has ASD and they let us bypass the preshow. They took us a back way and we saw some amazing things. They they just put us in the front of a tram line. If you have a GAC for a legit reason you are not abusing it.

I was DX'ed with RA and Fibromyalgia. My doc has already told me to get an EVC for our trip in January.

wtlivesey

04-06-2008, 02:37 PM

"Unfortunately you may have paid attention to the podcasts, but did you come here to disABILITIES, and especially did you read the disABILITIES FAQs? Or did you get a book, such as The Open Mouse, which specializes in discussion of touring WDW with disabilities?"

Chesire in response to your above, I did in fact use the Open Mouse book, in fact that is where I got the information on the use of a GAC card, as they stated it was indiviuals like my wife, those that felt they did not, or were uncomfortable using a wheelchair. At least that is the way I read it, guess maybe I misunderstood. The fact that it was in the book was the number reason I inquried about the GAC.

In response to the person inquiring what the Guest Relations person said to us when asking about the GAC, nothing at all was said to us about it's use, my wife advised the castmember the reason she needed and it was handed to use.

It seems I've offended some of you, by using the words "giving up" when talking about the use of wheelchairs/evc and I apoligize for that, that was not my intention, but for someone who has had no serious medical issues for 35 years and was free to do what she pleased without any obsticles is something that person needs time to deal with and maybe WDW was the wrong place for that at this time. Maybe I didn't state previously but my wife was only diagnosed 6 months ago, and she still has trouble accepting both that she has a cronic disease and she needs an injection three times a week to keep the affects at bay, let alone that she can longer move at the same pace she once did without have to rest constatnly. I was or am in no way trying to gain sympathy, however I do appreciate all of your kind words of encouragment. I was only trying to let others know that if they are looking into the GAC they may want to inquire about other options before hand.

P.S.

We did not use the GAC as a way to "bypass the lines" as some of you stated, we only used it towards the end of the day when my wife was at her most fatigued, and when the Fastpass was unavailable, or like the Stunt show in the Studios where there were steps.

P.S.S.

I might not have made it clear earlier, her issue isn't so much that she can't walk, walking is actually still strong for her, we walk 2 1/2 miles about three times a week to keep her moving, and we are currently preparing for the local MS walk to together, so she, along with myself, don't really believe she needs a wheelchair at this point, will she at some point down the road, a real possibilty, but at this junction she is still able to do it, it just that standing for a long period of time is what fatigues her quicker. So please don't "condemn" her or me for feeling the way we do. For others with the same or similar diseases we both realize that those types of things are needed, but it is up to that indiviual to make that decision for themselves, not for it to be made by someone else.

I apoligize if I sound definsive I don't mean to be.

KPeveler

04-06-2008, 02:43 PM

i think when people are suggesting your wife using a wheelchair, they did not mean in daily life, but in disney only. i do not need a chair in daily life, but definitely need one in disney!!

DIS-NH

04-06-2008, 03:01 PM

I've had similar experiences at Pirates and Haunted Mansion. I'm the father of 2 Autistic boys, who's disabilities are not obvious.

At HM..they have always accomodated me when I explain that the pre-show length, darkness and confined feeling will cause my boys problems. They allow us to enter and skip the pre-show.

At Pirates, they are not so accomodating. In one instance, I asked for the Ride manager. When she arrived and I explained my situation, she gladly assisted us, and assured us that she would speak to the attendent as he was not acting as he should.

Speak up...remain calm and collected.

goofieslonglostsis

04-06-2008, 04:00 PM

It seems I've offended some of you, by using the words "giving up" when talking about the use of wheelchairs/evc and I apoligize for that, that was not my intention, but for someone who has had no serious medical issues for 35 years and was free to do what she pleased without any obsticles is something that person needs time to deal with and maybe WDW was the wrong place for that at this time. Maybe I didn't state previously but my wife was only diagnosed 6 months ago, and she still has trouble accepting both that she has a cronic disease and she needs an injection three times a week to keep the affects at bay, let alone that she can longer move at the same pace she once did without have to rest constatnly. I was or am in no way trying to gain sympathy, however I do appreciate all of your kind words of encouragment. I was only trying to let others know that if they are looking into the GAC they may want to inquire about other options before hand.

You know what? It might sound SO stupid what I'm about to say, but this is the exact reason I'ld advce her to use a wheelchair or ECV at WDW. She has enough to deal with allready. That's OK. It's OK to feel sad, angry etc. Why the h*ll would she have to deal with worrying about her stamina, keeping up with you, what if the line takes longer than expected etc.

It is so humiliating to have to worry about those things, it turns you into someone you aren't if you don't watch it. Even worse if the 'worst case scenario' does happen.

You know, the ECV feel less 'failure' (or facing the raw deal, whatever) to many. It's a bit more commen and it's geared (or better said; UNKNOWN PUBLIC WOULD THINK SO) more towards people that are able to walk but have stamina problems. Also, it's way easier to do all of those miles at WDW with something moterized than a manual chair if you aren't used to it. The World isn't on a flat ground, it's uphill on lots of parts, so it drowns energy to move a manual chair if you're not used to it. With the ECV, YOU will have to worry about keeping up. :rotfl: With an ECV, she'll have no worry about whatever line what so ever. If she wants to see a parade? She'll have her seat, no need to stand and wait. (oh, how energy consuming)

Just think about it. Her doing WDW almost like she used to, without all of the worries. How great would that be? That's what an ECV can do. And at the end of the trip? She'll just turn in the rental, go home and done.

Really, there are a lot of people out there that don't need a wheelchair or ECV in every day life. They don't have to walk miles, stay in the heat humid weather of Florida and can avoid uncertain situations like how long a waitingine might take. Untill they are faced with the challenges of doing WDW. You'll probably be tired after a day at WDW. On a normall day you probably wouldn't feel your feet as much. It's the same for her. She is fine at home, but her stamina is in such a way she'ld benefit from using an ECV or wheelchair at WDW. And really; WDW is heaven on earth if you don't have to worry. She's worth that experience, hopefully she can accept that and allow herself to enjoy that freedom asap.

You know, I've got a sort of a motto. (I've got to many to say I've got A motto). I can't change the poor health nature gave me, but I can sure give it a run for its money and challenge it. That darned thing called eds thinks it can stop me? Think again, eds! I'm doing WDW, I'm doing all kinds of things I've dreamt of doing, up yours. You think you controle me, but think again; I'm controling what I do or leave and nobody or nothing else.

LauraVV

04-06-2008, 04:02 PM

bookwormde

04-06-2008, 04:45 PM

Up front I would like to say that Disney does a far an away better job with disabilities than any other theme park.

With that said, there is certainly more they could do and there are things they could do much better.

Accommodations are supposed to allow the disabled person to participate to the greatest extent practical with the minimum of modification to their “normal life”.

It is my opinion that in cases like this Disney falls short of that goal. Just because they have rules and policies does not make them the best ones.

If a wheel chair is not part of your wife’s everyday life and she does not want to use one and there is another practical accommodation it should not be Disney’s place to make that decision for you.

Waiting in a separate place as other special needs people do and entering the “line” at the equivalent time frame should be an option.

When you are fighting something and you have to step over a line that you are fighting against there is no going back no matter how you are rationalizing it. This is not like this is a temporary issue. I support your wife whole heartedly in not wanting to set that milestone yet.

If Disney really has a policy that the only accommodation they will offer in these situation is a mobility device then they need to rethink the policy (both from a moral, legal and obviously a financial basis).

And yes I know Theme parks have a big “exemption” from some of ADA laws but that does not remove the other obligations.

Sorry for disagreeing with the moderators (I do not very often) but in this case I think you are flat wrong.

bookwormde

KPeveler

04-06-2008, 05:01 PM

Waiting in a separate place as other special needs people do and entering the “line” at the equivalent time frame should be an option.

i just wanted to say that in the vast majority of cases (to my knowledge) there are no "special waiting areas" at most attractions. there is the line, the exit, and backstage areas (which, obviously, are not for guests)... so if you cannot wait in line for whatever reason (such as the woman here who has neices with a form of albinism, they cannot wait outside for dumbo in any circumstances, and there is no "special area") generally you are not put in a special area... i am not even sure what rides DO have that area...

merryweather20

04-06-2008, 05:21 PM

i just wanted to say that in the vast majority of cases (to my knowledge) there are no "special waiting areas" at most attractions. there is the line, the exit, and backstage areas (which, obviously, are not for guests)... so if you cannot wait in line for whatever reason (such as the woman here who has neices with a form of albinism, they cannot wait outside for dumbo in any circumstances, and there is no "special area") generally you are not put in a special area... i am not even sure what rides DO have that area...

I definitely have to agree with KPeveler here. Disney can only do so much at each ride or attaction, just do to space constraints, and staffing levels. And while something might work for one person with MS or RA, another person would need a different accommodation.

In this situation it sounds like an area with a chair would have been useful, but what if another party was using it, they'd be back to square one. And thats only if there was a good space for one and appropriate staff to oversee the area.

bookwormde

04-06-2008, 06:38 PM

Yes there are some places without accommodations and in many attractions it is not a formal place or line. Maybe it is my perception but in carrying a GAC for my son (but rarely using it) in most places we went which were not “theater” events it was simply a matter of letting the staff be aware that you were going to stay to the side until your time was up (a necessity because my son would never allow us to go ahead of anyone else) and then just coming in through an extra or side gate.

A great deal of planning goes into these attractions, setting up efficient accommodations for those who need a “different place” to wait is neither complicated, nor expensive. It just takes the will. Other types of accommodations are much more involved.

Maybe thats not the “formal” process, but it is what we and others who do not want to take advantage GAC do. Then again I do not go at very crowded times.

bookwormde

Talking Hands

04-06-2008, 08:22 PM

While I do not use a PWC at home except to go out to malls or the zoo for the day I do use it at WDW. I don't view it as giving up but giving me the freedom to enjoy myself at the parks. I also have an GAC because I am also hearing impaired so need to sit close to the speakers if there are no interpreters or captioning available and have panic attacks in lines because I can't hear people come from behind and have been hit and even had my wheelchair tipped over by others guests who want to push past the w/c. Don't really use the GAC much because I mainly do shows and pin trade but it come in handy for the few times I do want to go on a ride. I could never walk Disney. Today I had to rent an ECV At DHS and I was in pain just walking from the bus to Oscar's to get the ECV. Never again will I forget to plug in my chair.

wtlivesey

04-06-2008, 08:59 PM

Bookworkde:

Thank you very much for putting into words what I guess I couldn't. Your comments hit it exactly on the head what I was trying to say. My wife did not get the GAC with the intention of "cutting in lines", it was mearly a way, she thought of making her day easier. Others are right some of the rides don't have secondary entrances, I know for a fact that SpaceShip Earth does have a very small waiting area at the exit of the ride, thats why there are times that the ride stops, it allows those with disablitlies to use this entrance, and as I mentioned previously the Speedway in the Magic Kingdom, but none of that was why I even started this subject, I am was only trying to let others know of possible troubles they may have using the GAC. Again I'm glad someone else here understands where I am coming from in this and seeing the difficulties we've had. Again I have the utmost respect for those that battle their diseases on the a daily basis, as I've told my wife numerous times since she was diagnosed that I don't know if I would have the courage she has had over the past few months to deal with all the unknown she has. So for those of you that understand what I've tried to say with my original post, again for those that I might have offended I am truely sorry.

Cheshire Figment

04-06-2008, 09:01 PM

Accommodations are supposed to allow the disabled person to participate to the greatest extent practical with the minimum of modification to their “normal life”.

It is my opinion that in cases like this Disney falls short of that goal. Just because they have rules and policies does not make them the best ones.

If a wheel chair is not part of your wife’s everyday life and she does not want to use one and there is another practical accommodation it should not be Disney’s place to make that decision for you.

Waiting in a separate place as other special needs people do and entering the “line” at the equivalent time frame should be an option.

If Disney really has a policy that the only accommodation they will offer in these situation is a mobility device then they need to rethink the policy (both from a moral, legal and obviously a financial basis).
However, the situation at WDW is that almost all attraction queues are "mainstreamed". This means that a person with a mobility and/or stamina issue may remain in the queue, just as a person without such issue, all the way to the boarding or seating area. The only requirement is that they have a choice of standing/walking or using an approved medical device (wheelchair or EVC) and sitting. There are actually very few attractions that have an alternate entrance. Those with alternate entrances are primarily in the Magic Kingdom or Epcot.

But, without a wheelchair, for example, a person with a mobility or stamina issue would find it almost impossible to get on Soarin' or the Safari or Space Mountain as the entrance and exit are both very long and there is no other access. (And, as a CM, I know that access to them from backstage is also very difficult.)

The question is, since Disney has made accommodation for people with mobility/stamina issues, if a person does not want to accept the accommodations which were offered must the provider (Disney) spend additional money to accommodate this person?

disneynutz

04-06-2008, 09:14 PM

goofieslonglostsis

04-07-2008, 04:58 AM

The question is, since Disney has made accommodation for people with mobility/stamina issues, if a person does not want to accept the accommodations which were offered must the provider (Disney) spend additional money to accommodate this person?

To be honest? My personal answer to that question would be no. Sometimes there is a place and time to draw the line. If they invest more money in making WDW even more accessible, let them invest it first of all to accomodate needs of those that aren't met at the moment. Stamina and mobilty issues are being met in about 98% at the moment allready. I couldn't 'face' any person knowing that I might have 2 options with my mobility and stamina problems, but that mom with the kids wit albinism has none for the same ride.

Piper

04-07-2008, 05:44 AM

However, the situation at WDW is that almost all attraction queues are "mainstreamed". This means that a person with a mobility and/or stamina issue may remain in the queue, just as a person without such issue, all the way to the boarding or seating area. The only requirement is that they have a choice of standing/walking or using an approved medical device (wheelchair or EVC) and sitting. There are actually very few attractions that have an alternate entrance. Those with alternate entrances are primarily in the Magic Kingdom or Epcot.

But, without a wheelchair, for example, a person with a mobility or stamina issue would find it almost impossible to get on Soarin' or the Safari or Space Mountain as the entrance and exit are both very long and there is no other access. (And, as a CM, I know that access to them from backstage is also very difficult.)

The question is, since Disney has made accommodation for people with mobility/stamina issues, if a person does not want to accept the accommodations which were offered must the provider (Disney) spend additional money to accommodate this person?

No, I don't think so. Even "typical" people without the types of challenges we face have to make adjustments. It's part of life. The adjustments we make are not always the ones we want to make and we make more of them than most. I don't feel that I am entitled to say, "No, I don't want to be accommodated in that particular way." As long as my needs are being met, I'm thrilled----especially since they are not met in so many places.

bookwormde

04-07-2008, 05:56 AM

I do not think I ever said that Disney should create a new “class” of accommodation, just let people such as the OP make the choice of existing accommodations instead of Disney mandating it. I know that many attractions do not have an ideal situation, but I have always been amazed at how in the majority of cases the staff does a great job of accommodating with what they have.

Yes this may make some attractions less available than with a mobility device but in some cases it will make it more available. It should just be the individual’s decision of what existing accommodations are used.

bookwormde

dclfun

04-07-2008, 06:25 AM

Disney follows the ADA when it comes to accommodating special needs. They do NOT however, have to allow each and every person to make their own decision about how their needs should be accommodated. For someone with mobility and stamina issues, then renting a w/c is Disney's solution and I personally agree with that. Most people don't know what they're getting into with stamina issues at a huge theme park. Why should someone get a choice of using a w/c vs bypassing lines and preshows with a GAC, even if they aren't "abusing" a GAC. A GAC isn't meant to give someone a choice of how to experience Disney- it is meant to allow someone whose needs aren't met by renting a w/c to have equal accommodations. Those of us who travel in wheelchairs know that Disney is one of the best places to go where our needs are met. I really do feel for the OP to not have understood and to have read incorrect information that a GAC could be used as a choice vs. a w/c for endurance and stamina issues. For someone who is newly diagnosed it takes awhile to get out of the denial/shock/grieving stage and to have to face your disability head-on during a much-anticipated vacation must have been horrible.---Kathy

Matt'sMom

04-07-2008, 07:03 AM

I mean the whole point of the card was so that my wife wouldn't need a wheelchair

I am sorry that the OP misunderstood what the GAC is intended for, and did not enjoy their WDW vacation as much because of that. But I think that the above statement pretty well sums up the issue here.

The GAC is intended to provide assistance to those guests whose needs can not otherwise be met (such as by the use of a W/C or ECV, fastpass, etc.)--it is not meant to replace the use of a W/C, for mobility & stamina limitations.

Sometimes, if we want to enjoy certain attractions at WDW, we need to accept the accomidations that will allow us to do so. If we refuse to use an available W/C (that would allow one to sit comfortably rather than stand while in the POTC queue, for example), then we have to accept that our choice may mean skipping that attraction entirely. The important point being that most of us do have a reasonable choice/option available at the vast majority of attractions. :thumbsup2

HopperFan

04-07-2008, 07:50 AM

Matt'sMom, I interpreted this the same way. A w/c would have handled the problem, the GAC is not meant to eliminate that need.

As far as the two attractions the OP seemed to have the biggest problem with.....I believe they handled it properly. I don't see that these were problems with the GAC, but maybe the OP was not understanding that these were the quickest and most comfortable routes to take to ride.

As POC, they sent you to the waiting area for those with a GAC. No, there is no one stationed there. The folks with GACs will sit on the walls and wait. At a point when there is a group a CM will come out the gate and get everyone taking them in the back route. I've waited as long as 20-25 minutes here. This is still walking around the back of building, up a ramp area in the door to join in at the end of a line where you still stand. If the CMs told you out front that the que was only 10 minutes, not only would you not have to wait out in the sun for longer but you probably would have walked less distance in a/c than had you used the GAC.

At HM, first you enter the regular line and then at a gate you exit the covering to stand outside at another gate waiting on an available CM. You are out in the sun, there is NO where to sit, as they assume if you can't stand you are in a chair. Again you may wait 15-20 minutes. Then they will move you forward and sometimes you wait again just under the exit covering. The line at HM moves quickly, is covered and would be less idle standing than waiting for handicap access.

I am not surprised the CMs offered you the quickest route to the ride.

KPeveler

04-07-2008, 07:52 AM

livndisney

04-07-2008, 08:02 AM

i did just fine in my wheelchair in disney last time... however, i would much prefer to walk. can i get a GAC because I do not want to use a wheelchair and not stand in lines because i get tired easily?

I think the battle disney faces is that of "want" versus "need." A person "needs" a way of making it to the ride. However, they may not "want" to use a wheelchair... and i think that is the difference between the "need" Disney MUST accomodate, and the "want" they try to, but don't have to.

I think this sums it up nicely. If I choose to not use a wheelchair/ECV, I don't feel it is up to Disney to provide me with a fast track to a ride just so I don't have to stand.

Of course I would not mind if WDW shaded the Dumbo ride so I could ride it again :goodvibes

bookwormde

04-07-2008, 08:19 AM

Not to be argumentative but Disney (like most facilities) is only partially compliant and uses the grandfather clause in the statue to fully implementing the intent. They are in clear violation in other areas.

As to the above opinions that Disney has the right to choose for the individual the exiting accommodations be used I quote the following (pulled out my ADA resource guide from AIA).

From public law 101-336 July 26, 1990

Title III, sec. 320 2 specific prohibitions (A) discriminations (i)

“The imposition of eligibility criteria that screen or tend to screen out an individual with a disability or any class of individuals with disabilities from fully and equally enjoying any goods, service, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations unless such criteria can be shown to be necessary for the provision of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantage or accommodations being offered.”

I have done design build for commercial clients for 25 years so I have a little familiarity.

This is only on of many sections that show this intent. If GAC did not exist for other disabilities then thy might have a leg to stand on but since it does then they do not. Yes I do know that in this case the OP’s wife might not yet meet the standard for a “disabled” individual but others who do would are impacted.

Again Disney is closer to meeting the requirements of ADA than any other park owner but there is still much more that they could and should be doing, much of it just requires the proper mindset not extensive changes and expense (GAC system is a good example of an innovative solution at minimal cost) I have done this for clients for years it is not that hard to do

bookwormde

benjackal

04-07-2008, 09:00 AM

Hello,

So sorry you experienced frustration with your trip.

We returned recently and had a GAC card for our two children that have cerebral palsy - they are able to walk and are not in a wheelchair.
Although, we appreciated the accommodations made by Disney most of the time, we also had trouble at times. It was hard for a CM to really see that our kids had trouble unless they saw them walk up to the ride. Often, we would show our card to the CM at the front, but the person loading the ride often was not aware that we required more time for boarding (especially the "moving" sidewalk boarding rides). Often we were shuffled in, and our kids are small enough (they are 8) that my husband and I were able to scoop them up and put them inside the car. Once they are bigger, this will not work (for me anyway). I was somewhat disappointed that there is no communication between the CMs at the door and the CMs loading.

Overall, things worked well, but Kali River Rapids was a nightmare, there was absolutely no line up, and the very rude CM barked at us to get in the car/boat that she was presently loading. She had no idea we had a GAC (the CM 5 feet from her did) - and we had no idea how to get on this ride. Well, after getting all the kids in and helping them buckle up, she was screaming at me to sit down as the ride was almost leaving. I BARELY got my belt done up before we were plunging down! I was sweating from the stress. She literally gave us less than 60 seconds to load 3 kids (2 with CP), and get them and ourselves buckled in. It was crazy as she could have loaded us in the next car, seeing as there was no one behind us, instead of having us hop in at the last minute. Now that we've been once, we know better which rides require more time loading and will definitely be more vocal!

We also did the alternate entrance for Pirates. We waited longer than the stand by line for a CM to come but we were told it would be a while, and we just appreciated the chance for our kids to sit on a bench to wait.

That's just our experience!

Cheshire Figment

04-07-2008, 09:41 AM

As to the above opinions that Disney has the right to choose for the individual the exiting accommodations be used I quote the following (pulled out my ADA resource guide from AIA).

I have done design build for commercial clients for 25 years so I have a little familiarity.

This is only on of many sections that show this intent. If GAC did not exist for other disabilities then thy might have a leg to stand on but since it does then they do not. Yes I do know that in this case the OP’s wife might not yet meet the standard for a “disabled” individual but others who do would are impacted.
I am sorry. Again, as others have stated, Disney has several ways they accommodate disabilities. The method for people with mobility and/or stamina is making wheelchairs and ECVs available.

I have a question for you. If your office is on the 25th floor of a building, and I have severe claustrophobia and cannot use an elevator, how can I get to your office? (And, BTW, the fire stairs are designed that they can be entered at any floor but the only way to exit them is at ground level to the outside, and there is no way to enter the fire stairs from the outside.)

Mrsjvb

04-07-2008, 10:10 AM

ADA requires accommodations to be made. Disney has chosen to do so. Just because you don't particularly care for the type they chose doesn't make Disney in error or failing in any way.

the OP's problem was standing for long periods of time. Disney's response to that is : get a WC or ECV, simple, straightforward and logical. It is not Disney's(or any body else's ) responsibility if the person chooses not to avail themselves of the offer.

We all must be responsible for our choices. If you choose to not take advantage of the perfectly adequate alternatives that Disney has, then that's entirely on you.

I for one have learned that next time, I will rent from off site in order to be able to take my WC outside the park gates. I decided that the courtesy chairs that were availble to use to get to the TTC or Monorail were not something I wanted to use again. (bad experience with a wheel that fell off as we were making our way to the monorail)

bookwormde

04-07-2008, 12:00 PM

Notatourist

04-07-2008, 12:25 PM

bookwormde

04-07-2008, 12:31 PM

mechurchlady

04-07-2008, 01:42 PM

I been reading lots of posts and opinions. I will be wrong to many but here goes.

The Wild Animal Park does not have to give free admissions to companions. SeaWorld does not have to provide companion bathrooms. Disney restaurants do not have to puree guests' food. These are perks given to disabled people beyond what the law requires.

I know that when I go out to eat that the restaurant does not have to have food that I can eat. It was nice last night having a ramp to get inside the restaurant because i was a bit stiff kneed and it was nice that the restaurant served me a chicken, ribs, taters, corn, and salad dinner that was GF free. It was nice that they opened the leaf on the table so we had more room and the seats were able to hold a 500 pound person.

I know my limitations and plan accordingly. Even in the ADA era there are rides that people cannot go on. I always wanted to go on the stinger type rides at DLR and Knotts but am too fat. My neighbor and a cousin have big chest so they cannot go on the Maliboomer for example. I could no longer hardly make it up Tarzan's Treehouse. I got stuck on a carrousel pony which stopped at the very top.

I know that I must read everything before planning a trip even to a restaurant. I know that I cannot expect everything to be assessible or right for me. I know that if I ride Dinosaur or Indy Jones that I will be in screaming pain possibly. I know that I can run and waddle fast but use an ECV because the lines are murder. I know about them spells I have where next second I am walking into a tree.

I feel Disney has gone out of its way to make the parks assessible. There are things that could be changed and there are problems. The answer is to immediately ask for a lead or manager if the problem is something serious. The answer is writing letters and posting information on boards so that people know ahead of time possible problems.

I believe the person in the original post knew she had major health problem that included the inability to stand for long periods of time. She should have gotten the wheelchair and then if she was in a long line she could set. It is not Disney's fault she chose to stand in the long lines while knowing she could not.

As for Pirates, at Disneyland you often can walk down a bit then up a circular ramp and into the cool building. The disabled entrance requires walking to the rear of the building the through a narrow passageway and then through the exit to the unloading dock. Mind you that you may run into ECVs, Strollers, and Wheelchairs as well as mobs of guests storming off the ride. Try taking a service dog or ECV into the exit and you better be ready for mob mentality, pushing, shoving, and getting your toes crunched.

merryweather20

04-07-2008, 02:18 PM

Notatourist,

It is in black and white in the section I quoted from title III. You may not think it is needed or makes sense but it is part of the regulation.

There are also some attractions which do not have any separate waiting areas (formal or otherwise) Even ones where the "access area" has been modified since 1992 (added extra lines or reconfigured the lines)

Bookwormde

I'm just not seeing how the section you quoted spells out black and white support for your position. In this case there were no eligibility requirements for obtaining the Op's DW's GAC or to use a wheel-chair in the park. The party chose not to use a wheel-chair which was Disney's accommodation for stamina issues when waiting in line. The next party that came in with a wheel-chair would be able to see the attraction.

BeckyScott

04-07-2008, 02:27 PM

CF, I think the answer is that you don't go to his office, he comes down to the main floor and meets you there.

Maybe? :confused3

My only frame of reference is a previous situation at my workplace, which is a college. The solution was to meet with the student elsewhere, until such time as the offices were eventually moved to an ADA-accessible location. It wasn't claustrophobia though, it was a very large power wheelchair. But that's what they did for a work-around.

While the ADA laws are in place for a reason, I think also you gotta remember a little common sense. For example, let's say Space Mountain. We're not going on it, because of the seating, I would not be able to keep a hand on DS. Rides where we can sit 2-across, no biggie. But I wouldn't put him on something where he's "by himself" because I don't trust him. This is the same kid who bails out when the merry-go-round at the park is still going-round. :eek: I suppose I could put this as a symptom of autism (because many kids with autism don't have a good sense of danger) and get cranky because he won't be able to ride SM and throw a fit over the seating. But I'm sure he & I will have a lovely time on the TTA while my DH and other DS ride. He doesn't like loud noises, but I can't require Disney to turn down the volume. Apparantly I can't even require Disney to give us some ear plugs. Best-case scenario is Disney can't stop me from bringing ear plugs into the park.

There are rides with strobe lights, yes?, if not at Disney then certainly at other theme parks. And the ride isn't going to change for your arrival. And if you have a problem with strobe lights, you oughta find out which rides have them, and you probably shouldn't go on them.

Unfortunately, there are such a wide array of disabilities, which require such a wide array of accomodations, that to successfully accomodate each and every one of them, in a theme park situation, gosh it seems like that would be near impossible to do!

bookwormde

04-07-2008, 02:46 PM

As stated earlier, my comments were not based on this case since it is not really an ADA situation, just the policy in general.

My thoughts were of technical compliance.

I too, for the most part give Disney a pass even if their technical compliance is lacking. On the whole they do a good job

Bookwormde

Hook's Girl

04-07-2008, 03:22 PM

Yes I agree Disney has decided to discriminate between classes of disabilities an as such has not made certain accommodation available to certain groups.

Huh? PLEASE explain this to me. I have a hard time with the idea that someone sat down and made a conscious decision to discriminate.

Talking Hands

04-07-2008, 03:40 PM

Yes I agree Disney has decided to discriminate between classes of disabilities an as such has not made certain accommodation available to certain groups. It’s there I black an white in the statute let alone the administrative rulings. That is a clear violation of ADA

As to the specific scenario, claustrophobia is would not qualify under ADA. If it is an employee (title I) who is disabled then the employer must make reasonable accommodations (making the work are readily accessible or restructuring the job or work environment etc). There are exemptions for “undue hardships” in accommodating an individual.

I will not type it out here but title III section 303 is very clear in what the commercial venture must do.

bookwormde
But Disney really doesn't discriminate, it is just that the accommodation may not be the one you would want.
An example: we have 2 teachers that happen to be deaf. The school provides a tty in one area of the school but not in each classroom. If the teachers want one in their classroom they must provide themselves. They prefer not to, but instead use text messaging and AIM to contact the office. Did the school provide with cell phones for that. Of course not. The tty is available for them and the deaf students to make calls so they are accommodated but they do have to go to the tty. BTW I also tty or videophone at home myself and prefer to use my cell for texting rather than walk over to the classroom area that houses the tty. It is available for me to use though.
The accommodation was available and your wife choose not to use it.

bookwormde

04-07-2008, 03:58 PM

Last try.

The issue is that Disney discriminates between different classes of disabilities when assigning people to only one possible accommodation when there are 2 accommodations that already exist and would work for some people in the disability class

No sense in beating a dead horse further, you either get it or you don’t

bookworm

merryweather20

04-07-2008, 04:33 PM

No one is beating any horse's. I think I'm in the same boat as everyone else. No one "assigned" the OP an accommodation, they simply decided against using the accommodation available that was available. Talking hands example is a good one. It is simply not feasible to offer an infinite variety of accommodation.

Belle1962

04-07-2008, 05:35 PM

wtlivesey

04-07-2008, 06:28 PM

I'm going to try to make this my final post about this. I didn't realize when I started this it would cause such an upheavil. I was only trying to help others that had posted questions about use of the GAC, and I felt my story would be too long to add as a reply. Again I am going to state that we were not using the GAC as a way to get ahead of a line, or specialized treatment. It was mentioned in different things I read both online and in the Open Mouse book that was mentioned in a previous response. I thought I was doing the best I could for my wife on her first trip away since being diagnosied. Would I have knew you would have all used this as a soapbox for your feelings on Disney's treatment of those with disabilities I would have never even of posted our story. My wife has done the best she could since being diagnosed and adjusting to her new way of life, and I thought the GAC would be the easiest, instead of using a wheelchair/ecv away from home. I felt that would be something she would be more comfortable with being at home the first time. However for the most part, some of you have used this board as a way to question her nonuse of those things. I am sure for most of you it was a hard decision to come to the first time you used one of those devices. My wife wasn't comfortable with her first time with one of those devices being at a crowded park. I gave her some much credit for handling herslef the way she did, and I have told her numerous times since how proud of her I was. Again please do not take any of this as an insult to those of you that have chosen to use those devices, and maybe someday my wife will feel the need, but why must she be forced into something that she feels she is not ready for.

I would have been more satisfied if the GAC wasn't available, then we would not have to worry. By offering the GAC Disney is saying, at least to me, that a wheelchair/ecv is not neccessarly needed, in fact a cast member at guest relations told my wife that with the GAC she didn't need the use of the one of the devices. So by one of the Disney's own employee own admission the GAC is for those guests that don't want to use one of the devices. So guess we shouldn't have listened to that castmember?

Again if I have offended anyone I apoligize, I only was thinking of those that were under the impression that the GAC doesn't have it's problems it does, but like anything there are problems with just about everything. Just want to add one other thing, on a number of occassions my wife and I noticed quite a few in wheelchairs in the regular que for a few different rides, why is that?

For the few of you with kind words I want to thank you very much, my wife and I appreciate it.

BeckyScott

04-07-2008, 07:06 PM

I would have been more satisfied if the GAC wasn't available, then we would not have to worry. By offering the GAC Disney is saying, at least to me, that a wheelchair/ecv is not neccessarly needed, in fact a cast member at guest relations told my wife that with the GAC she didn't need the use of the one of the devices. So by one of the Disney's own employee own admission the GAC is for those guests that don't want to use one of the devices. So guess we shouldn't have listened to that castmember?

Again if I have offended anyone I apoligize, I only was thinking of those that were under the impression that the GAC doesn't have it's problems it does, but like anything there are problems with just about everything. Just want to add one other thing, on a number of occassions my wife and I noticed quite a few in wheelchairs in the regular que for a few different rides, why is that?

Yeah, sounds like you had a confused CM. Like they thought it's sort of a "one or the other" kind of thing. If you have an ecv you don't need a GAC. But I don't think it would necessary be that having a GAC you wouldn't need an ecv. But I could see how a CM who is maybe new or just not really up on things would think that it went both ways.

The other thing is, of course, that the CM who told you that didn't know what your plans were for the day, your route or what attractions you were going on, and what other CM's would be working at each of them. Apparantly it isn't that unusual for CM's to have different interpretations of the GAC, and that's CM's all working the same ride-- much less one at the front of the park vs manning a random ride elsewhere.

Your other question- some of the rides (esp. at Epcot and AK) there isn't a "wheelchair line", since the parks are newer, the regular lines are accessible. No different than a wheelchair being able to use any one of the check-out lanes at Wal-Mart, if that makes any sense. Wheelchair users are just like regular guests. Which is sort of the point, isn't it? ;)

KPeveler

04-07-2008, 07:07 PM

Just want to add one other thing, on a number of occassions my wife and I noticed quite a few in wheelchairs in the regular que for a few different rides, why is that?

That is because those lines are mainstreamed, and a person in a wheelchair can wait in the lines with everyone else. if, for example, your wife had chosen to use a wheelchair (just as an example, not making judgements!) you would have waiting in the regular line with the rest of the guests. having a wheelchair does not always mean a special entrance. in fact, in most places, it means you wait in the normal line

ETA: i just realized why you may have been caught off guard by some people's reactions to a GAC vs wheelchair... if you did not realize why a wheelchair was in the mainstream queue, you may not have realized why some of us object to the GAC being used to bypass lines (even sometimes) when a wheelchair can be used... if you thought wheelchairs did not use the normal lines either, i can see where your confusion came in!

dclfun

04-08-2008, 06:12 AM

I've never felt that I was a victim of discrimination at WDW until the time I was told that I could no longer have a certain GAC because I wasn't a child and wasn't on a Wish trip, then finding out that this GAC is given to children, at times, who are not on Wish trips but need the same accommodation that I do. I'm sorry...yes, Disney brings to mind families and children but adults also are there to have their wishes come true and often HAVE children with them who then will have their trip shortened, ruined, etc. because their parent cannot do what other's do due to their disability or equipment needs. For me, we live locally and it's not a big deal to only be able to spend a few hours a day in a park, but for other adults it may be their wish too or even their last wish, to spend time with their children while battling a terminal illness or being so medically fragile that they can't experience the parks without that same consideration that's given to a child with the same needs. I was belittled, berated, and chastised for having the old GAC and asking to have it renewed-a GAC which I hadn't asked for to start with but was given to me once someone realized my situation and limitations. Since most attractions aren't accessible to me to start with ( can't transfer, have SD ) and since the GAC is limited to be used by the holder only ( I could not to go through queue lines using my GAC with my family if wasn't riding )then it was rarely used to start with. It was just the idea that as an adult, I wasn't treated with the same courtesy, care, and consideration as a child and it still hurts today to have been "stung" by such a cruel CM.---Kathy

dclfun

04-08-2008, 06:17 AM

I also wanted to mention as we've all been discussing using a w/c for stamina...the OP already said that he and his wife didn't really understand what a GAC is for and had different expectations that weren't met. Yes, his wife should have used a w/c for stamina issues but due to what they had read, they thought differently. Having to face the reality of your newly diagnosed disability while on vacation with your husband would be a really harsh experience. Then to feel as though no one cared was another slap in the face. Instead of thinking what they "should have done", we should all be in their shoes and realize the disappointment they felt.---Kathy

goofieslonglostsis

04-08-2008, 08:52 AM

Wow Kathy, you don't say? Really, just because you were an adult? Ouch, that was a big mishap. :( Did you follow up on it with a manager or something?

About your second post. You've got a point. It's terrible that OP and his wife were misinformed and I really wished for them to have found the DIS before the trip. However, once being misinformed it's a hard blow to find out the way they did their info about the GAC wasn't a 100% correct. Especially they way they found out.

dclfun

04-09-2008, 06:12 AM

Nope- I didn't say anything to a manager. I was too busy crying over how hurt and humiliated I was with this CM and was too embarrassed to pursue anything. I did ask her to check with a manager, who never came out, but she returned and told me that as an adult, I should NOT have that GAC, could NEVER have that GAC again, how DARE I have had that GAC, and that whoever gave it to me could be fired. Of course I had no idea who gave it to me and I'd never asked for it in the first place, nor was it abused. I have compassion for anyone who has a less than stellar experience regarding their disability and accommodations made, esp. at WDW. It's hard enough in daily life to deal with those issues but to come to the "happiest place on earth" and be so sorely disappointed is just a crushing blow. I can imagine how the OP and his wife felt and I also can imagine how this hurt will stay with them for a long time. I've never forgotten the above incident I described and it stays on my memory as an indelible hurt. No matter what happens to the OP and his wife in the future if they do come back to WDW, this is what they'll remember for the rest of their lives. Disney is about making memories and they shouldn't be hurtful ones. A little kindness goes a long way.---Kathy

goofieslonglostsis

04-09-2008, 06:24 AM

Kathy, I'm really speachless. How harsh that was, and the way she kept repeating it in those words. I guess that's the biggest problem with these things. The way they communicate it. In your case and when TO and his wife found out, that was uncalled for. Mistakes can happen even at Disney (just like we can make mistakes, we're all just human), but these types of behaviour is never needed.

If you happen to have a name, maybe think about letting management know now? Even without a name, really. It's still something they can learn from and re-educate the CM's. It's not like it's something that probably would never happen to others again. A CM working at GS, dealing with GAC's and not knowing adults sometimes need them to, gosh.....

mgilmer

04-09-2008, 12:19 PM

Kathy,

Was the GAC you had a front of the line GAC? If so, the CM was correct that these are reserved for Make A Wish kids only and you had received it by mistake. That being said, there was certainly no excuse for treating you badly. If a mistake was made in giving you the wrong type of GAC, it was theirs, not yours.

wendylovesdisney

04-09-2008, 07:28 PM

[QUOTE=wtlivesey;24283023I apoligize if I sound definsive I don't mean to be.[/QUOTE]

I support you.

I understand what you are trying to say. Sometimes people are quick to judge.
I know you came here for support and instead it seems like you are getting an earful.

wtlivesey

04-09-2008, 11:24 PM

Wendy thank you for the kind words, along with what you've said I also didn't want anyont else to have to go through what we did, and in thinking that the GAC was the solutions to one's problems with they're disablities.

I also want to add, that it was funny reading Kathy's post about the manager never coming out to speak to her and the CM relayed the message. When we went to Guest Relations we too were told that the CM had to speak to her manager, we too never saw this "manager", kind of funny huh?

I also wanted to take a mintue to add that with all the problems we had with using the GAC, one of the greatest experinces we had was in using it. When we used it Indy Speedway, the CM out front went out of his way to make my wife feel normal, I know after all the complaining I did previously that sounds kind of strange. He walked us personally through the alternate entrance, and passed us off to the second CM with the utmost respect, and treated us as I felt the CAC was suppose to be used. So for that, that CM needs to be commended. This CM was the definition of what a true CM is!!!

Eeyore's Tiara

04-09-2008, 11:40 PM

OP: To your wife from me :hug: .

The first time I had to use a wheelchair at Disney I literally BAWLED as my husband put me into one. I was afraid people would stare at this seemingly "healthy" person and think "scammer". Didn't bother to think that the way I was crying they were all looking anyway :) The second day was easier. When I got the ECV I was JOYOUS!!!!!!! The ecv gave me such freedom. I didn't have to worry about being in a store at Downtown Disney doing mega shopping or standing in line and suddenly needing support to walk to a sit. I could do things on my own!!! My son made a comment to me, on my second trip using an ecv--"Mom--this trip is great--our best trip yet!! I don't have to see you in pain and I can see you enjoying yourself". My FAMILY felt better with me in an ecv, everyone enjoyed the trip more and it only takes one or two days in the ecv to get used to it and realize what a blessing it is. Next time: have your wife get an ecv (I prefer the offsite ones as the Disney ones are 4 wheelers and harder to manage). She will NEVER regret it!!!!!

THis is exactly what I was going to say! I tried to walk Disney but my body wouldn't let me and if I tried to push it then I'd have to stay at the hotel and recuperate for a day or two. My family would miss out on so much because of me. I tried a wheelchair, but with the wheelchair, I had to wait for my family to push me around because my arms are too weak. I was miserable. Then I decided to try an ecv and I at least had freedom to move around and follow my children which gave me back a sense of being able to watch over them.

And I did cry like a baby the first time I had to use an ecv and get on a ride. They stopped the ride for me and I was mortified. I too have an "invisible" disease that will keep progressing. I am glad that I made the decision to go ahead and use the help a wheelchair/ecv provided. I am able to be there with my family and I now have the stamina to last for the whole trip like I used to.

Please give your wife a hug from me :hug: and tell her that I can appreciate how hard it is to be active one day and then have your abilities snatched from you. I walked for as long as I could but I ended up making it difficult for my family who had to witness the pain I was in. Not to mention the time in the parks they missed because of me when I was worn out. Once I got over the feeling like I was giving up a part of me and started to use the ecv, I was able to enjoy everything again. Now I like going to Disney with my kids and I am making tons of memories to cherish. God bless you both!

dclfun

04-10-2008, 07:47 AM

While I don't want to hijack this thread with my own issue ( which I was trying to share with the OP and others as an example of a problem with the GAC and being emotionally hurt at Disney)...the GAC I had with me was the same one that had been renewed three/four times in the past with no problem. It is the same type that has continued to be given to children, albeit in rare instances, who are not on a wish trip but who have needs similar to mine or other particular needs that can't be met with another type of GAC in accordance with the ADA. The fact that it is ONLY given to children outside of MAW children and never, ever given to adults, to me, is discriminatory. There are several adults I know who also visited WDW, were medically frail with delicate life-support equipment who could have used this type of GAC but merely because they are adults they couldn't have one. Parents who have stood up for their children's needs have gotten one. No one should ever say to a guest that they aren't entitled to the "magic" of an accommodation at the parks just because they are not a child. Magic is supposed to be for everyone, regardless of age. The ADA is for everyone, regardless of age. Kindness and consideration should be also given to everyone- regardless of age. I still love Disney and would recommend a Disney vacation to anyone, esp those who are disabled as I feel they do have the best accessibility of any theme park, including the wonderful resorts. It's just that this policy excluding adults, IMO, isn't right and the way my own incident was handled wasn't the best. The OP's situation wasn't handled well either and set up false expectations. I'm glad one CM made a difference to them which just goes to show you, as I mentioned before, a little kindness goes a long way.---Kathy

BroganMc

04-10-2008, 07:56 AM

OP, in truth your story just makes me very frustrated. I brought my mom to Disney several times when she was battling terminal cancer. We never thought to use a ECV, even after years of knowing I needed a wheelchair to get around. (I can't manage more than 20 feet distance due to RA.)

Her last trip to Disney was probably the most disheartening. Her cancer was very bad and she had a simple desire: breakfast with the grandkids at Grand Floridian and then a few rides at Magic Kingdom. We'd take the monorail to the park, then the train to Frontierland and she'd walk from there to FantasyLand for IASW. Then we'd amble over to Tomorrowland and catch Buzz before the 3pm parade on Main Street and she'd go home to rest.By the time she got to IASW she's was exhausted. We got her back to the resort but she never set foot in the parks again that trip. She passed away 4 months later.

To this day I regret that I hadn't known enough and let her pride issues keep me from getting her that ECV. I practically arm-twisted my dad into renting one the following year, ostensibly to keep up with my powerchair that can go 4x the normal old fellow's walking speed. He was unsure at first, but he as soon as he realized he didn't have to hunt for a seat everywhere or drag himself to bed every night with aching legs he was convinced. Since then he has had triple bypass surgery, prostate cancer and still can do Magic Kingdom until 4am, crisscrossing the park and doing things on a whim.

Again I am going to state that we were not using the GAC as a way to get ahead of a line, or specialized treatment.

I confess I'm confused what you thought the GAC would do then. It is merely meant to identify needs and instruct ride CMs where to usher people. It used to be merely having a wheelchair became your identifying card. Now it's a mishmashed system with many assuming a flash of a "red card" acts as a VIP backstage pass. There are actually only a few places where you go backstage (really the exit area) and even then you'll end up standing around and waiting.

My wife has done the best she could since being diagnosed and adjusting to her new way of life, and I thought the GAC would be the easiest, instead of using a wheelchair/ecv away from home. I felt that would be something she would be more comfortable with being at home the first time. However for the most part, some of you have used this board as a way to question her nonuse of those things. I am sure for most of you it was a hard decision to come to the first time you used one of those devices. My wife wasn't comfortable with her first time with one of those devices being at a crowded park.

Society pities those in wheelchairs. It is very difficult for people to distance themselves from that bigotry and understand a wheelchair is merely another tool in the human repertoire. People can mow grass with a handmower, (the powerless push kind), yet we have a whole host of gas-powered lawn mowers, even ones you ride.

Growing up with JRA (that's juvenile rheumatoid arthritis) I was constantly under pressure from my doctors and parents not to "give up" and "keep moving". I was even told my use of a manual wheelchair to keep up with the kids at camp was "abusing a crutch" and "made me a failure". You try wrapping your mind around that when you're an impressionable 10 yo.

As a result I endured decades of pain and suffering, pushing myself to my stamina limits. I only went to college 3 days a week because I was bedridden the next day due to the pain. I never learned to drive because I doubted I could walk from the parking lot to the store. (Someone always went on a car run to pick me up at the curb.) And the whole time I was pushing myself I thought I was proving how successful I was at "beating my disease".

To put it simply, I was a stubborn idiot grossly mislead by society's misconceptions. The day I got my powerchair (5 years ago), I felt reborn. Miraculously I could go through a mall and actually pay attention to the sights around me rather than trip hazards and seats to rest. I had feared people would look down on me for having my powerchair (as I did to others), but instead I found I didn't care. I talked to people. I smiled at them, engaged them, said hello first. I became a much different person, one with far less pain and the freedom I had been searching for since childhood.

This sentiment is why you have probably been getting a lot of negativity toward your wife refusing the wheelchair or scooter. I realize it is all knew to you and for that I am truly heartbroken for you. I was lucky in that my disability appeared when I was 2, so it has just become part of my normal reality. For adults like you, it is an abrupt end to one life and beginning to another. There will be a painful adjustment period. The folks here are just trying to let you know that a life with medical needs is still a good life.

And I can tell you, having lived with disability for 30 years life is a lot better today than it was just a few decades ago. Advancements in technology, architecture, policy and science have ended the virtual slavery many of us lived under. Today I drive, have my own business, and travel extensively.

So by one of the Disney's own employee own admission the GAC is for those guests that don't want to use one of the devices. So guess we shouldn't have listened to that castmember?

My guess is that what the CM meant is that the GAC acts as a visual marker to ride CMs akin to a wheelchair. When I approach a ride just my chair visible, I'm asked the usual "can you transfer" question which is meant to decide which line to put me in. If my dad parks his scooter and walks up, he's never asked that question. If one of us shows my GAC, the CM looks at it and directs us accordingly.

I wish your wife well on her new journey with MS. And I do hope her disappointment doesn't sour her from Disney. I know for me the feeling of magic and inspiration to dream I get when I'm here is like a shot of the best medicine ever. And I get that more from the parades and fireworks than any ride. It's why I keep coming back. I need my Disney dose of optimism to help propel me through the sometimes dreary everyday life at home.

Mrsjvb

04-10-2008, 09:11 AM

Growing up with JRA (that's juvenile rheumatoid arthritis) I was constantly under pressure from my doctors and parents not to "give up" and "keep moving". I was even told my use of a manual wheelchair to keep up with the kids at camp was "abusing a crutch" and "made me a failure". You try wrapping your mind around that when you're an impressionable 10 yo.

I think we had the same doctors..were you diagnosed in Upstate NY in the 70's?! heheheh

I was diagnosed at 5. 35 years later..I have learned that I just can't do it all anymore and while it bugs the bejeezus outta me that I can no longer walk the Mall or visit my beloved pandas at the National Zoo I still won't admit that I need a wheelchair even sporadically. right now it's just way too much of a hassle in the intervening areas..loading a car or having to negotiate the Metro. Sure if I had one in the middle of DC I could certainly last longer and see more stuff, but right now the inconvenience to get there is not worth it to me.

I have a new doctor who is younger than I am (the whippersnapper) who is slowly beating into my brain that asking for the Blue Placard isn't a sign of weakness but rather a sign of admitting one's limits and being able to lead a more fulfilling life.

Right now I am dealing with a HUGE flare up in my hip..walking around the house(let alone the stairs) is a major endeavor. I had to forgo a trip to the basin to see the Cherry Blossoms in full bloom last week because the week before I was stubborn and over did it while visiting the memorials on the Mall. I REALLY want to get to the Zoo sometime soon, but until I admit that I need a chair to do it, it won't happen.

It is more about not being a burden to my husband then anything else. he was the one who forced me to get one at WDW last year. and at the end of the trip he admitted it was purely selfish..he was not wanting to have to deal with a cranky miserable wife who couldn't walk and wasn't enjoying herself.

mamaloya

04-10-2008, 01:11 PM

BroganMC, you made me cry. You put into words exactly my feelings. I have had RA since I was a teenager. At 19, I was told I had Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. I was then told at 24 that he thought I had RA but I was so young and it wasn't affecting my life to bad, so to leave it alone. I really did not struggle but very rare flare ups until after I was bit by a tick in VA on a camping trip. I then wound up in the ER with a 105 fever. I had that fever for 4 days, was lethargic and dehydrated. I was diagnosed with Lyme Disease and, after 2 rounds of Doxycylcine, test clear for it. I have not recovered though and that was a year ago. It kicked my RA into high gear.

I now suffer extreme pain daily. If I go to the grocery, I cannot function the next day. I am torn between pushing myself to do what I need to do and taking it easy. I don't want to "give up" and get assistance. I sometimes wonder though if I am causing damage pushing myself. I have yet to talk to my rheumy about these feelings because I don't want him to pity me. Right now we are adjusting my meds and trying to get the right mix and dose. I feel that if I admit just how bad the pain is to him that it makes it real.

I did have a w/c in Feb and it was great. I did feel awkward at times. It was a rental paid for by my insurance. I would very much like to ask for one to keep, even better a powerchair as sometimes pushing hurts. I do use my feet to push a lot though. I just can't bring myself to ask for a power chair or scooter.

How do you get past these feelings? When does accepting a chair no longer feel like a failure? Will using a chair keep my RA from progressing? I know this is slightly OT, but the OPs wife sounds like she is going through, or will be anyway, the same thing I am.

BillSears

04-10-2008, 02:01 PM

RNMOM

04-10-2008, 03:21 PM

poohnpigletCA

04-10-2008, 03:21 PM

mamaloya

04-10-2008, 09:13 PM

I've been lurking on this thread. It sure is interesting and while I'm opinionated on most of the talk here I just want to address one part. The part about giving in to a wheelchair or being afraid of using a chair, etc...

Using a wheelchair/ECV is the cure for being disabled. Using a wheelchair is not giving in anymore then taking cough syrup is giving in to your cold. Using a wheelchair is what lets you ignore the disability and get on with your life. It's a way of overcoming your problems and not giving in to them.

To me my wheelchair is freedom and a blessing. It may not be the cure we are all looking for but it's the best cure/solution to many problems.

Thank you for your input Bill. This group is really helping me accept this change in my life. I have spent so many days cooped up in my house because it is too painful to go anywhere or do anything. It is my pride that stands in my way I guess.

I have to say that I did feel wonderful in my chair at WDW, the ENTIRE 10 days!!!! I normally can't handle a couple of hours at the mall. I felt so much energy while there. More than I have felt in a long time. I need to remember that.

Thank you for the perspective. You definitely said this very well.

Cheshire Figment

04-10-2008, 09:45 PM

Everyone who wears glasses or contact lenses please raise their hand and be counted.

What is the difference between a person wearing glasses/contacts and a person using a wheelchair/ECV?

They are both disabled and using something mechanical to alleviate the disability.

I guess the question is why do people not consider glasses/contacts a stigma while they do consider a wheelchair/ECV to be stigmatizing?

mechurchlady

04-10-2008, 10:02 PM

I've been lurking on this thread. It sure is interesting and while I'm opinionated on most of the talk here I just want to address one part. The part about giving in to a wheelchair or being afraid of using a chair, etc...

Using a wheelchair/ECV is the cure for being disabled. Using a wheelchair is not giving in anymore then taking cough syrup is giving in to your cold. Using a wheelchair is what lets you ignore the disability and get on with your life. It's a way of overcoming your problems and not giving in to them.

To me my wheelchair is freedom and a blessing. It may not be the cure we are all looking for but it's the best cure/solution to many problems.

Well said and thanks for saying what i feel.

I now use the spare wheelchair while cooking dinner. I am no longer crying exhausted and in pain. I can now enjoy my dinner instead of trying to get to bed fast. I use the chair and the pain is gone. To me glasses and a wheelchair are tools to make my life easier.

Chshire makes a good point also.

goofieslonglostsis

04-11-2008, 06:56 AM

Thank you for your input Bill. This group is really helping me accept this change in my life. I have spent so many days cooped up in my house because it is too painful to go anywhere or do anything. It is my pride that stands in my way I guess.

I have to say that I did feel wonderful in my chair at WDW, the ENTIRE 10 days!!!! I normally can't handle a couple of hours at the mall. I felt so much energy while there. More than I have felt in a long time. I need to remember that.

Thank you for the perspective. You definitely said this very well.

Hun, what are you doing to yourself? :grouphug: Your pride is silly. Use that pride to ride with pride! Really, it's just a set of wheels, nothing more or less. It doesn't turn you into an alien and you can just stand up and walk away (well, limited ;) ) if you decide you don't like it. Why NOT try it?

Really, pride is great but let it work for you. I decided to become a chair-diva. I'm proud, very proud. I'm proud of my unbelievably great looking manual chair (powerchair needs a pimping for that, and it'll get it!). I've got the 'look at me, nice chair, it deserves all of the "wow" you've got' additude. Take pride in yourself. Take pride in deciding to honor your body, health, spirit and kids. They all benefit so much if you do use the chair. Take pride in allowing yourself to make sure you take care of yourself!

Really, all these struggles of people, fears, and hurt makes me keep thinking it's about time there was something like a WDW-on-wheels-meet or something. To be able to see IRL how great WDW on wheels can be. How great life WITH a chair can be. To 'blend in' for those who are worried about being stared at. (lol, a bigger group on wheels and not using wheels? You'll stick out like noting else ;) )

What do you reckon people? Would Disney give a theraputical discount for such an event? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Schmeck

04-11-2008, 10:04 AM

I am not going to read all these responses because from the first page I can see you have gotten a lot of comments and advice.

I have autoimmune issues too and have used a scooter the past 3 trips. It has made my life so much more fun to not be exhausted and actually feel well.

You mention that she has trouble standing, as do I. Have you considered one of those cane type folding stools you can easily carry along, using it as a cane and opening it when she has to stand for any period of time? My sisters both have one and I just saw a lady at a bus stop sitting on one today! I know there are many different places to buy them and they aren't terribly expensive. If she doesn't want to use it as a cane when walking, perhaps you could carry it for her?

Another possiblilty is a small foldup camp stool that might fit in a backpack. I know it seems there should be a better solution but I think Disney does do it's best to accommodate but when we stop and think of all the different things each of us might need I believe it would be impossible to make all of us happy 100% of the time.

I do hope you will consider these and other ways to help her that might not involve a wheelchair if she is so against one.

Sorry, but folding chairs are not allowed into the parks, as per WDW official FAQ site:

Q. Are there any personal items I should not bring with me into the Theme Parks?

A. Items that you may not bring into the Theme Parks include, but are not limited to:

Items with wheels, such as wagons, skateboards, scooters, inline skates, shoes with built-in wheels, two-wheeled or three-wheeled conveyances, strollers larger than 36" x 52", suitcases, coolers, or backpacks with or without wheels larger than 24" long x 15" wide x 18" high (coolers required for medication may be stored in a locker or at Guest Relations), and any trailer-like object that is pushed or towed by an ECV wheelchair or stroller
Alcoholic beverages
Weapons of any kind
Folding chairs
Glass containers (excluding baby food jars and perfume bottles)
Pets (unless they are service animals)
In Disney's Animal Kingdom® Theme Park (for the safety of the wildlife), balloons, straws and drink lids are not permitted.

mgilmer

04-11-2008, 03:34 PM

folding chairs are not allowed into the parks

Yes and no. While it is true that traditional folding chairs are not allowed in the parks, assistive devices with seats such as these are allowed:

http://hocks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=4971578&gdftrk=viHSLsl6E37tLP/85HJLpuLqWxAQ8zuaDxp5kGsxcNY4OYh3V3/KZKFigp2CRRyK~pBDjMbCPTZ3BkQDyxbt~Ihoz5rS3wDkn~kGY 01wNw5GX8f~fQA1bTD~eMGohOL4bO9wVIgdrvfslKicGs2RQA_ _

http://www.bethmansales.com/products/MDS86810.html

luvyawdw

04-11-2008, 06:59 PM

First I want to say that the support you show your wife is wonderful, I also think it is something to be admired in a couple to be so close.
You did all the right things to prepare for your trip, reading related information and advice. I don't think your expectations were beyond what they should have been at all. I see your point in every aspect of your post.
I hesitated to post on this topic because I have in the past and have gotten similar responses to the ones you recieved. After reading your post a couple of times and then the responses you recieved, I felt I should comment, this time, Im going to be very frank.
You stated many times that you both did not want to abuse the GAC nor did you expect it to get you to the front of the line, yet, the majority of replies inferred that front of the line is what you were after.:confused3 I felt the tone of your original post was very genuine, you were not after front of the line acess There are many families like you and your wife, we are one of them. It seems Disney has taken a very cynical approach to guests with disabilites that do not have very outward signs of a condition. And I do realize there will always be people that take advantage, but I do not feel that to be a ligitament reason to take this approach, therefore making guests visits difficult and unmemorable.
I believe the GAC should have been of more benifit to your wife, no doubt.
Why should your wife feel pressured into using a wheel chair in order to have her disability accomodated? You explained how her condition affects her to guest services, which is what you are instructed to do. If there are alternative ways for your wife to acess the attractions, and these alternatives would prevent her from becoming fatigued and overheated,why would they not be made available to her??? They are available to many guests with various conditions. I do not see how the treatment she recieved could be viewed as "equal acess"? We have family friends whos son has autism, he can not wait in long lines, and crowed areas also bother him which makes visiting Disney very difficult on him and his faimily. He and his family are accomodated by having him bypass lines, crowded areas and pre-shows if possible. How is this considered equal acess for him but not for your wife? Why is your wife given the advice to go in a wheelchair and how does that provide her with equal acess? I understand our friends sons condition well and their need for the accomdations, Im not complaining about that. Why are some guests treated differently than others? If the access is available and is relevant to the disablilty, why should a guest such as your wife be denied the availability?
As I mentioned above, I have posted about this very topic. Our 13 yr old daughter Bethany has physical impairments that affect her mobility also, and recently suffered a complication during spine surgery which has left her with 20/200 vision. We also have had some very unpleasant experiences at Disney and did go back each time with the hope that it was just a fluke and next time would be better. Sadly, I think after hearing this, things have gotten worse.
I wrote a letter in 07 to exc. offices at Disney and surprisingly they responded. Not just with a letter. They called me! I really do not think they realize how this affects some of their guests. They seem to me to be very intrested in our experience and commented on some of our ideas to turn this problem around. I believe our society in general is about the "ME". What I mean by that is if it does not affect you or someone you love than who cares about spending time or effort on it. Disney should be one place that does not portray that attitude. They have an oppurtunity to in some ways set an example, with so many guests who visit, they could reach alot of people.
I hope that you and your wife visit Disney again and again. I also hope it will be very different for you.
My daughter also does not want to be in a wheel chair, she has fought it. She has had to use one recently because of her spine surgery, and her underlying condition which is similar to polio. Our daughter is very stong willed, ambitious and loves life. We respect her wishes to not go in her chair when she can, even if it is not convienant or takes more time and effort. It is her disabilty and her life that is most affected. I realize everyone feels different about this, but really, I think it should be up to the person who is living with the condition.
I think you did all the right things.
By the way, our daughters rehab physician is in Dupont Deleware, at the childrens hospital. He is wonderful.
I wish you and your wife all the best.
Lisa:)

Charleyann

04-11-2008, 07:47 PM

I think we had the same doctors..were you diagnosed in Upstate NY in the 70's?! heheheh

I was diagnosed at 5. 35 years later..I have learned that I just can't do it all anymore and while it bugs the bejeezus outta me that I can no longer walk the Mall or visit my beloved pandas at the National Zoo I still won't admit that I need a wheelchair even sporadically. right now it's just way too much of a hassle in the intervening areas..loading a car or having to negotiate the Metro. Sure if I had one in the middle of DC I could certainly last longer and see more stuff, but right now the inconvenience to get there is not worth it to me.

I have a new doctor who is younger than I am (the whippersnapper) who is slowly beating into my brain that asking for the Blue Placard isn't a sign of weakness but rather a sign of admitting one's limits and being able to lead a more fulfilling life.

Right now I am dealing with a HUGE flare up in my hip..walking around the house(let alone the stairs) is a major endeavor. I had to forgo a trip to the basin to see the Cherry Blossoms in full bloom last week because the week before I was stubborn and over did it while visiting the memorials on the Mall. I REALLY want to get to the Zoo sometime soon, but until I admit that I need a chair to do it, it won't happen.

It is more about not being a burden to my husband then anything else. he was the one who forced me to get one at WDW last year. and at the end of the trip he admitted it was purely selfish..he was not wanting to have to deal with a cranky miserable wife who couldn't walk and wasn't enjoying herself.

Gosh they are still preaching to ditch the wheelchair and get moving. My son age 11 has JRA and he could never ever walk Disney. His arthritis deeply affected his ankles and knees. He suffers a great deal as it stands without going with the aid of his wheelchair!

Charleyann

Talking Hands

04-11-2008, 08:15 PM

Sometimes it is all in the way you present the needs to the Castmember in Guest Services. I really can't tell you how to word the request because each person is individual but I do know that they have a standard answer for stamina and mobility issues. If it is really important to your wife, the 2 of you will find a way to word the request to get the desired accomodation. It may take several times. My new one the CM left off one of my needs stating another would cover it. But it really did not cover it because some of the areas to wait are in direct sunlight.

Cheshire Figment

04-11-2008, 09:03 PM

Minor summary

Fact 1. The normal Guest Relations response for a person with mobility and/or stamina problems is use of a wheelchair or ECV.

Fact 2. The GAC is not intended to allow a person to avoid the time spent in line.

Fact 3. There are some attractions where alternate entrances are available, but some, such as Soarin', Safari, and Space Mountain have very long queues with no alternate entrance even for the FastPass lines.

If you have a mobility or stamina problem only, and do not want to use a wheelchair or ECV, what accommodation do you want that does not include bypassing the line?

A person such as luvyawdw's daughter, who has a vision problem as well as a mobility problem would use a wheelchair for the stamina/mobility situation and have a GAC indicating, for example, that at shows she would need to sit in the front due to vision problems as normally the wheelchair seating is toward the back of a theater.

So my question to some of the people who feel that they do not want to use a wheelchair is what accommodation do you think you should be given that will not involve bypassing line wait times? Remember there are some, such as Soarin', Space Mountain, and Safari, where even though there are FastPass lines the distances are very long.

wtlivesey

04-11-2008, 10:16 PM

luvyawdw: Thank you so much for you kind words. Finally someone understands where I'm coming from in my comments. It seems everyone here things I was trying to blast/badmouth Disney, and I guess in a way I was, but in general I do feel Disney does a great job in dealing with visitor's disablites, to a degree. I was just trying to let others know that Disney could do a lot better with those that don't show visable disablities, it seems that is where the problems lie. I have the utmost for respect for those with disablites that don't let their disablties limit them, however what is right for one person is not right for the next. My wife, like your daughter, doesn't feel she is ready for a wheelchair, because she can still walk pretty good for the most part. It seems every things that a wheelchair/evc is the solution and as I'm sure you daughter woud agree it's not, no matter how much it might help others in simuilar situation. Well I dont' want to get started again, just to THANK YOU again for you words. I'm so sorry to hear aboout your daughter's recent set back, but I'm sure with her family and friends around she will recuperate, you and your family are in our thoughts and prayers.

P.S. As a child I too spent some time at the Dupont Hosp for Children, then I didn't see it, but looking back now, I realize that it was the best thing for me, I fortuantly was there for a orthopedic problem with my elbow, but I was lucky to have some of the best doctors in that field, whic I am sure you daughter also has there. Good Luck with everything.