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mrf777
04-02-2008, 01:00 PM
This airline may be the next to fold.


Skybus Airlines vice president of operations announces resignation
Wednesday, April 2, 2008 11:15 AM
By Marla Matzer Rose

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
Bud Sittig, one of Skybus Airlines’ longest-tenured employees, has resigned as vice president of operations for the airline. The move comes one week after the abrupt departure of Chief Executive Bill Diffenderffer and his replacement by former Skybus chief financial officer Mike Hodge.

Sittig has been with Skybus since late 2004, two and a half years before the airline started flying in May 2007. Before that, he rose through the ranks at Delta Air Lines as a pilot, manager of flight operations and director of flight safety. He was also a longtime reservist with the National Guard.

Skybus spokesman Bob Tenenbaum said a replacement for Sittig has not been named.

In a letter to Skybus employees, Sittig said his resignation “will be effective with the orderly transfer of responsibilities to the new director of operations in the coming days.”

He explained his decision for leaving, saying he felt "out of step" with some of the issues affecting day-to-day operations. He urged employee support for new CEO Hodge.

mrose@dispatch.com

travelin' tigger
04-03-2008, 08:06 AM
This airline may be the next to fold.
I'm not going to avoid them just because of a few resignations. At $32RT to FL, I'm willing to take the chance and still book with them. Speaking of which, I've already had 2 trips to FL (totalling $140) and have 3 more booked for over the summer months (totalling $166). Anyway, life is all about chances!!

But YOU can feel free to avoid them - more cheap fares for me!!! :goodvibes

CarolA
04-03-2008, 08:23 AM
I think the overall feeling is that there may be some finanical difficulties. Book with a credit card for some protection. (That would not include flying you to whereever......but hopefully a refund)

I think thier model has some flaws... we will see what happens.

travelin' tigger
04-03-2008, 08:31 AM
I think the overall feeling is that there may be some finanical difficulties. Book with a credit card for some protection. (That would not include flying you to whereever......but hopefully a refund)

I think thier model has some flaws... we will see what happens.
I agree with you Carol - basically it's a "wait and see" situation. I always book with a major credit card, but as long as the price is right, I'm willing to take a chance.

scottie
04-03-2008, 08:33 AM
I just saw a commerical on tv here last night in regards to a big hiring fair they are having at a local hotel this month. Not sure what to make of that.

mrf777
04-03-2008, 08:36 AM
ATA-American Trans Air just ceased operations.

Lewisc
04-03-2008, 08:50 AM
ATA wound up being the next but it's not good when two top executives jump ship.

Posters considering Skybus should only pay with a credit card. Posters should also decide what their back up plan is. Drive? Cancel the trip? Book with another airline, at whatever the current fare is? Passengers who are planning the third option should look at how much more it would cost to book another airline instead of Skybus. Unless the savings are signifiant it may make sense to skip Skybus.

mrf777
04-03-2008, 09:12 AM
I'm not going to avoid them just because of a few resignations. At $32RT to FL, I'm willing to take the chance and still book with them. Speaking of which, I've already had 2 trips to FL (totalling $140) and have 3 more booked for over the summer months (totalling $166). Anyway, life is all about chances!!

But YOU can feel free to avoid them - more cheap fares for me!!! :goodvibes

Do you really think they can survive charging $32 for a ticket when oil is over $100 per barrel?:rotfl: I wouldnt take the chance of being stranded somewhere.

Jeanne B
04-03-2008, 09:45 AM
Do you really think they can survive charging $32 for a ticket when oil is over $100 per barrel?:rotfl: I wouldnt take the chance of being stranded somewhere.

They only sell the first 10 seats for $10 one-way. I have two weekend trips booked with Skybus this summer but they're both trips that we can easily make other arrangements for or cancel should Skybus cut back or go belly up...I wouldn't book them if I needed to rely on them 100% to get us to our destination (I definitely wouldn't take a chance on them for a cruise).

scottie
04-03-2008, 09:47 AM
Do you really think they can survive charging $32 for a ticket when oil is over $100 per barrel?:rotfl: I wouldnt take the chance of being stranded somewhere.

With only 10 seats being sold at the $10 fare that leaves a large number of seats open to sell at a higher cost. And the 10 seats are being sponsored by various companies so I am guessing they are footing at least some of the cost difference in the 10 cheap tickets.

Lewisc
04-03-2008, 09:57 AM
Excellent point. When an airline shuts down, with no notice, some passengers are stuck at their destination. Pay with a credit card and you'll get your $10 back. That won't get you home.

Even legacy airlines have some of the fuel costs "locked in". Whatever cost savings Skybus has from the way they do business is lost with the fuel costs. I don't think Skybus can stay in business if they have to charge "market fares"



I wouldnt take the chance of being stranded somewhere.

CarolA
04-03-2008, 10:21 AM
With only 10 seats being sold at the $10 fare that leaves a large number of seats open to sell at a higher cost. And the 10 seats are being sponsored by various companies so I am guessing they are footing at least some of the cost difference in the 10 cheap tickets.

That was the PLAN, but I don't think the "sponsorship" is bringing in much money! LOL!


The problem with Skybus is that they have NO appeal to folks like me traveling on business. And that's the "profit" group. Part of it's just that we are spoiled and like the perks (first class upgrades, miles for flights to Europe etc LOL!) Part of it is that there's probably NOT a huge demand for flights between Greensboro and St. Petersburg or their other "small" out of the way airports for us.


I don't have a "dog in this fight" but just looking at the overall model, I never have gotten it.

scottie
04-03-2008, 10:35 AM
I will keep my fingers crossed then they remain around long enough for us to enjoy their service for our June flight we have booked:thumbsup2 !

Lewisc
04-03-2008, 10:41 AM
You don't think Skybus can make money with all the soda, food and other stuff they sell their passengers?:confused3

The $10 fare becomes more like $30 if the passenger checks a bag and buys a soda. You don't an airline like Skybus can be profitable with that model?

Delta still hasn't updated their website with their new baggage rules. Sounds like their model is to spring the new charges when passengers show up to airport. Give passengers notice and many (most?) will just bring one bag.







That was the PLAN, but I don't think the "sponsorship" is bringing in much money! LOL!


The problem with Skybus is that they have NO appeal to folks like me traveling on business. And that's the "profit" group. Part of it's just that we are spoiled and like the perks (first class upgrades, miles for flights to Europe etc LOL!) Part of it is that there's probably NOT a huge demand for flights between Greensboro and St. Petersburg or their other "small" out of the way airports for us.


I don't have a "dog in this fight" but just looking at the overall model, I never have gotten it.

CarolA
04-03-2008, 10:48 AM
You don't think Skybus can make money with all the soda, food and other stuff they sell their passengers?:confused3

The $10 fare becomes more like $30 if the passenger checks a bag and buys a soda. You don't an airline like Skybus can be profitable with that model?

Delta still hasn't updated their website with their new baggage rules. Sounds like their model is to spring the new charges when passengers show up to airport. Give passengers notice and many (most?) will just bring one bag.



:rotfl2:

I think they need to raise the price on those sodas. Say $20 a coke?

uva185
04-04-2008, 01:05 AM
The real problem comes not if they cease operation but during irregular operations (such as weather or mechanical cancellations or delays) They only have 10 planes to operate all of their flights. If one flight has a mechanical problem or gets delayed somewhere due to weather it will cause a huge ripple effect on subsequent flights. It may end up taking days to get to your destination if their planes are full. They are not partnered with any airline (like Southwest) so they cannot send you on another airline if their is a delay.

The real problem I have with this airline is lack of customer service. It sets a terrible precedent as US airlines race toward the bottom. :(

travelin' tigger
04-04-2008, 07:56 AM
I wouldnt take the chance of being stranded somewhere.
That's your opinion. Two of my three trips are to visit family - if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen!! My week at the end of August will be backed up with tix on SW (Ding or otherwise). Those I can cancel and use the ticketless travel funds for a future trip.

I realize it's a crapshoot going into this and I'm willing to take the chance. Who knows, maybe I'll win in the end and have a couple of trips to FL for under $200 - maybe not... :confused3

Lewisc
04-04-2008, 09:03 AM
You're kind of agreeing with the poster you quoted. Are you really "stranded" if you stay with family members for a few extra nights? The problem of being "stranded" if Skybus goes bust during your trip isn't a big problem for you.

The fact that you plan to have backup reservations with Southwest for your vacation means you agree relying on Skybus is a risky choice.

Your situation is a lot different from the posters who are relying on Skybus for their Disney vacation and who don't really have a plan "B" if Skybus stops running.



That's your opinion. Two of my three trips are to visit family - if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen!! My week at the end of August will be backed up with tix on SW (Ding or otherwise). Those I can cancel and use the ticketless travel funds for a future trip.

I realize it's a crapshoot going into this and I'm willing to take the chance. Who knows, maybe I'll win in the end and have a couple of trips to FL for under $200 - maybe not... :confused3

travelin' tigger
04-04-2008, 09:24 AM
You're kind of agreeing with the poster you quoted. Are you really "stranded" if you stay with family members for a few extra nights? The problem of being "stranded" if Skybus goes bust during your trip isn't a big problem for you.
Sorry I guess it was wrong of me to use that quote. All I'm stating is MY OPINION. And Skybus RIGHT NOW works for me!! LewisC, I know you've been giving your opinions all along about how you feel about the risks of using Skybus - thank you, but I'm just trying to support the other side of the coin with my experiences and opinions in order to help other DISers make their vacation decisions!!!
The fact that you plan to have backup reservations with Southwest for your vacation means you agree relying on Skybus is a risky choice.
Yes, I've stated this in my previous posts, so I now have a backup plan.
Your situation is a lot different from the posters who are relying on Skybus for their Disney vacation and who don't really have a plan "B" if Skybus stops running.
Alot of people also had plans with ATA - maybe not to Disney but their Hawaiian vacations. Yes, there's a chance Skybus could pull the plug any day now, but isn't this the way of the airline business these days with the rising costs of jet fuel??????

I appreciate your opinions, just give me equal time to express mine!!! :sad2:

CarolA
04-04-2008, 09:42 AM
I have to be honest, I don't fly any airline where I have to have a "back up plan" LOL!

Now, things happen that I don't expect (ATA shutting down) but I deal with them then. I don't have a "back up plan" when I book the flight.

Lewisc
04-04-2008, 09:47 AM
I do, but your opinion is almost the same as mine. You're relying on Skybus for family visits you can cancel if Skybus goes bust and you have a place to crash if you have to extend your stay.

You're making backup reservations for your vacation.

I'd consider Skybus, if they had an airport near me, under the same circumstances you're using them. I don't think Skybus will be around the end of the year but there isn't any reason you shouldn't try to grab a couple of cheap family visits before they go under.

I wouldn't drive 5 hours to get to a Skybus airport.

My comments are directed to other posters who are relying on Skybus for their family vacation but have no plan "B". The posters who don't understand the real risks of Skybus. The posters who think Skybus can be profitable because they charge for soda and baggage. Posters that may be forgoing discounted fares (with other airlines) that might not be available later.

I don't think any of the ATA passengers had $10 fares. At least some of the passengers may have been able to get a flight for a price somewhat in line with what they were budgeting. A couple of airlines are accomodating ATA passengers for $100 (standby).

The issue isn't just Skybus. I think passengers who are relying on airlines like Allegiant and USA3000 may have similar issues. Those airlines are constantely evaluating what routes to cancel. Routes to the Orlando area, which are filled with passengers who book deeply discounted seats, are prime routes to be dropped.



I appreciate your opinions, just give me equal time to express mine!!! :sad2:

Lewisc
04-04-2008, 09:18 PM
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1779278

Look like tonight is the end of Skybus. Customers should contac their credit card company for a refund.

OhioGrumpyGirl
04-04-2008, 09:22 PM
From the Skybus website:

Skybus Airlines will cease all operations effective Saturday, April 5.
Skybus struggled to overcome the combination of rising jet fuel costs and a slowing economic environment. These two issues proved to be insurmountable for a new carrier.

We deeply regret the impact this decision will have on our employees and their families, customers, vendors, suppliers, airport officials and others in the cities in which we have operated. Our financial condition is such that our Board of Directors felt it had no choice but to cease operations.

Passengers holding reservations for Skybus flights scheduled to depart on or after Saturday, April 5, 2008 should contact their credit card companies to arrange to apply for a refund. More information for customers and others will be made available on the Skybus web site (www.skybus.com) as it becomes available.

All flights for Friday, April 4 will be completed. Passengers holding reservations on flights for Friday, April 4 should check in for their flight at a Skybus kiosk at the airport instead of the Skybus website.

dvcnewgirl
04-04-2008, 09:44 PM
I think the overall feeling is that there may be some finanical difficulties. Book with a credit card for some protection. (That would not include flying you to whereever......but hopefully a refund)

I think thier model has some flaws... we will see what happens.

I have 5 flights and they folded tonight, I booked with a bank card with a Visa logo, anyone have ideas of what I should do?

DebbieB
04-04-2008, 09:51 PM
I have 5 flights and they folded tonight, I booked with a bank card with a Visa logo, anyone have ideas of what I should do?

I would call them. I'm not sure if you have the same protections with a bank card since the money is already out of your account.

Lewisc
04-04-2008, 09:52 PM
I have 5 flights and they folded tonight, I booked with a bank card with a Visa logo, anyone have ideas of what I should do?

Contact your bank.

dvcnewgirl
04-04-2008, 09:55 PM
I would call them. I'm not sure if you have the same protections with a bank card since the money is already out of your account.

Contact your bank.


Thanks for the info.. I hope I can get some $$ back.:sad2:

cole6179
04-04-2008, 09:55 PM
I have 5 flights and they folded tonight, I booked with a bank card with a Visa logo, anyone have ideas of what I should do?

Just contact your bank. Since I am assuming you processed it as a Visa transaction...not using your pin number...you should be covered. That's terrible!

dvcnewgirl
04-04-2008, 10:02 PM
Just contact your bank. Since I am assuming you processed it as a Visa transaction...not using your pin number...you should be covered. That's terrible!

Yes I just used it as a Visa. Thanks!

CarolA
04-04-2008, 10:38 PM
Just contact your bank. Since I am assuming you processed it as a Visa transaction...not using your pin number...you should be covered. That's terrible!

Actually the protection may very well be different. (This came up when SouthEAST went down last year)

A lot depends.

Good luck!

design_mom
04-04-2008, 10:51 PM
Excellent point. When an airline shuts down, with no notice, some passengers are stuck at their destination. Pay with a credit card and you'll get your $10 back. That won't get you home.


You can say that again. I just got off the phone with my sister who is in WDW right now. She was planning to fly back home on Wednesday via Skybus out of Ft. Myers (She's heading there this weekend to visit family). I just helped her book new return flights on Southwest out of Tampa.

Anything to come home on Wednesday was $225+. She's extending her trip a few days so she can get 7-day advance purchase discounts on Southwest, so she's coming home Friday for $80 instead.

It's a shame they had to close, but I think it really stinks that they didn't give any notice! They had to know a week ago that things were dire.

dvcnewgirl
04-04-2008, 11:35 PM
Because I used a bank card I am out all of my $$, they said I could file with bankrupcy court.. Yea, like I know how to do that..:headache:

MAH4546
04-05-2008, 12:09 AM
Because I used a bank card I am out all of my $$, they said I could file with bankrupcy court.. Yea, like I know how to do that..:headache:

The Skybus website should have information on how to file with a bankruptcy court next week (then again, they aren't known for being helpful). It isn't that painful of a process.

However, you are still unlikely to get your money back because money is returned to debtors from most owed to least owed. By the time they get to you, there probably won't be any money left. Though, you did say you had five flights booked. How much do they owe you? If it's over $1,000, might as well try. If not, it probably isn't worth it.

pr surfer
04-05-2008, 12:10 AM
Because I used a bank card I am out all of my $$, they said I could file with bankrupcy court.. Yea, like I know how to do that..:headache:
Which bank do you use? When Independence Air went out of business, I had tickets, some of which were purchased with my Wamu debit card. I was able to file a dispute and get my money back.

pr surfer
04-05-2008, 12:11 AM
I'm not going to avoid them just because of a few resignations. At $32RT to FL, I'm willing to take the chance and still book with them. Speaking of which, I've already had 2 trips to FL (totalling $140) and have 3 more booked for over the summer months (totalling $166). Anyway, life is all about chances!!

But YOU can feel free to avoid them - more cheap fares for me!!! :goodvibes
Hopefully you put that $166 on some plastic ;)

CarolA
04-05-2008, 08:58 AM
The Skybus website should have information on how to file with a bankruptcy court next week (then again, they aren't known for being helpful). It isn't that painful of a process.

.

:rotfl2:

"aren't know for being helpful" might be the understatment of the year on here. After all they had NO phone customer service..... Too funny!

dvcnewgirl
04-05-2008, 09:08 AM
Which bank do you use? When Independence Air went out of business, I had tickets, some of which were purchased with my Wamu debit card. I was able to file a dispute and get my money back.


It is Suntrust I will try.. Also it is less than $1000.00 so I think I am pretty much out of luck.:sad1:

niclodn
04-05-2008, 09:10 AM
Hey all! I flew into Indiana on Friday and was supposed to go back to North Carolina on Monday. Got the email last night at 10:45 PM (flew out at 10:45 AM yesterday!) that I was basically stuck. If that's not fraud, I don't know what is -- why were passengers not notified BEFORE getting on the plane that they wouldn't have a return flight?!?! You can't tell me they didn't know 12 hours earlier that they were shutting down.

Needless to say, my $55 flight is now probably going to end up costing me $300! No more "discount" airlines for me!

bicker
04-05-2008, 11:05 AM
If that's not fraud, I don't know what isIt is definitely not fraud. You're understandably upset. It sucks that this happened. However, there is no criminal or civil violation here.

-- why were passengers not notified BEFORE getting on the plane that they wouldn't have a return flight?!?! You can't tell me they didn't know 12 hours earlier that they were shutting down.And so it would have been the folks who flew twelve hours earlier than you who encountered this circumstance instead of you. The same end-result overall. Again, it sucks that this happened, but this is the risk we all take when we engage in an industry that is cut so close to the bone.

Needless to say, my $55 flight is now probably going to end up costing me $300! No more "discount" airlines for me!A wise perspective, IMHO.

Maine-iac
04-05-2008, 04:32 PM
Which bank do you use? When Independence Air went out of business, I had tickets, some of which were purchased with my Wamu debit card. I was able to file a dispute and get my money back.

We were able to re-book with US Air when Independence went out of business. It did not cost us extra but we did lose one day of our vacation.

Jeanne B
04-05-2008, 05:04 PM
I read on slickdeals that JetBlue (and apparently US Air) is offering stranded Skybus passengers $50 flights to get home although I think it's standby only but what a great offer because they're certainly not obligated (although it may gain them some loyal customers:)).

And some people with future flights are having luck getting refunded right away, Chase is one that I've seen mentioned. Both my cc companies said I had to file a dispute and they would be sending out paperwork that I have to sign and return. I don't have much invested and I knew I was taking a chance when I bought the tickets so if I get the money back I'll be happy but otherwise I'm not counting on it.

springandmac
04-05-2008, 05:42 PM
I have 5 flights and they folded tonight, I booked with a bank card with a Visa logo, anyone have ideas of what I should do?

I'm in the same boat as you. I booked 6 r/t tickets for my family vacation in June. 2 of which were for friends of my children.

Because I used a bank card I am out all of my $$, they said I could file with bankrupcy court.. Yea, like I know how to do that..:headache:

Who said that? I used my debit card too.

It is Suntrust I will try.. Also it is less than $1000.00 so I think I am pretty much out of luck.:sad1:

I bank at SunTrust too. I called the security department this afternoon. They took my info and said they would send me a dispute form via email and that I should fill it out and fax it back and then they would work with skybus to get my money refunded.

There was a wait to speak to a rep. She said the reason being is because they were filing so many disputes from people who purchased tickets from skybus.

I'm just sick about this :sick:

scottie
04-05-2008, 06:35 PM
I had my tickets on a BofA credit card. I called today to file for the refund and their automated options had a selection if you were filing for a refund for Aloha Air tickets. I guess they havent got a chance to add prompts for ATA and Skybus yet! The BofA rep said they are very busy with airline refund calls now! :eek:

dvcnewgirl
04-05-2008, 08:48 PM
I'm in the same boat as you. I booked 6 r/t tickets for my family vacation in June. 2 of which were for friends of my children.



Who said that? I used my debit card too.



I bank at SunTrust too. I called the security department this afternoon. They took my info and said they would send me a dispute form via email and that I should fill it out and fax it back and then they would work with skybus to get my money refunded.

There was a wait to speak to a rep. She said the reason being is because they were filing so many disputes from people who purchased tickets from skybus.

I'm just sick about this :sick:

This is good to know, I called the Visa # not Suntrust directly..

jennib5426
04-06-2008, 06:08 AM
I am at the Richmond, Va airport this morning for my flight to MCO on Delta and Skybus has closed up shop here.
I was talking to a United rep and he said all the Skybus employees came into work yesterday and had no idea they were out of business until they got here. There was a lot of angry people here yesterday.

I am on a 3 hour delay with Delta, but at least I still have a flight.
I woun't get to WDW until 1pm now :mad:

Good lock to all you people who have tickets on Skybus.

Jeanne B
04-06-2008, 08:14 AM
I read on slickdeals that JetBlue (and apparently US Air) is offering stranded Skybus passengers $50 flights to get home although I think it's standby only but what a great offer because they're certainly not obligated (although it may gain them some loyal customers:)).

AirTran is now also offering $50 one-way tickets to stranded Skybust passengers so at least some people will be helped by this offer.

design_mom
04-06-2008, 12:29 PM
AirTran is now also offering $50 one-way tickets to stranded Skybust passengers so at least some people will be helped by this offer.

Skybust... LOL!!! A truer name I have never heard!

fla4fun
04-06-2008, 02:01 PM
And so it would have been the folks who flew twelve hours earlier than you who encountered this circumstance instead of you. The same end-result overall. Again, it sucks that this happened, but this is the risk we all take when we engage in an industry that is cut so close to the bone.

I don't think that's the case. The PP was of the opinion that anyone flying on the first half of a return ticket, where the return would be AFTER they ceased operation, should have been notified at check in that there was a good probability that there would not be a return flight, so they could choose not to go. It wouldn't have necessarily rippled the effect backward, because only those people who were flying outbound before and inbound after the cessation would be affected. I wonder how many people on the very last flight were on the outbound flight for their vacation? You know that SOMEONE had to know that was going to be the last flight.

Of course, it always pays to have some emergency money as a backup in case something goes wrong with your vacation anyway. Although most of my vacations are drive trips, when I fly, I try to have enough money in the bank to cover any contingencies I can think of - whether airline, hotel, or whatever. If someone is flying on a $50 ticket, and doesn't have the funds to cover a walk up ticket should they need one, then maybe they should be postponing their trip for a while. It's not just because of airlines going out of business. What if you are ready to fly home, you're bumped from an oversold flight, and all the flights for the next few days are oversold as well? You might want the flexibility to book with another carrier so you can get home on time, and it very well may cost more than the ticket you're holding.

bicker
04-06-2008, 03:20 PM
I think another thing might be getting lost in the mix, here: I believe it is illegal to warn customers before warning creditors, through the Chapter 11 or Chapter 13 filing.

Generally, businesses aren't "out to get" us. Rather, they're simply doing what they're supposed to do, and that isn't necessarily what is best for us.

westjones
04-06-2008, 03:25 PM
This airline may be the next to fold.




WOW! Good Call on your part! Can you predict what is going to happen to Northwest? I just booked airfare for March 2009. I hope they are still around!

DJ

bicker
04-06-2008, 03:38 PM
If the pilots don't get in the way, Northwest could end up merged with Delta. If that happens, you'll probably see one of Northwest's hubs (most likely Memphis) cut back big-time (in favor of Atlanta).

CarolA
04-06-2008, 06:36 PM
Personally I am AMAZED that any airline is giving you the $50 standby fares. The folks flying Skybus tend to be the "cheapest" at all time flyers. So I don't see the airlines getting any return loyal customers from this. Next time someone shows up with"too good to be true" fares these customers are GONE LOL!

Lewisc
04-06-2008, 06:51 PM
Personally I am AMAZED that any airline is giving you the $50 standby fares. The folks flying Skybus tend to be the "cheapest" at all time flyers. So I don't see the airlines getting any return loyal customers from this. Next time someone shows up with"too good to be true" fares these customers are GONE LOL!

They're also offering $10 standby fares to Skybus employees who are stuck.

I don't think the airlines are going to get loyalty from former Skybus passengers, who might pay a premium are of $1, but rather a source of just "good press" for the airline.

CarolA
04-06-2008, 07:03 PM
They're also offering $10 standby fares to Skybus employees who are stuck.

I don't think the airlines are going to get loyalty from former Skybus passengers, who might pay a premium are of $1, but rather a source of just "good press" for the airline.


Good point, plus I think these are "standby" fares. Most of the flights I am on lately have few if any seats for standbys....

niclodn
04-07-2008, 08:17 AM
I checked with US Air yesterday about re-booking my return with them, but the agent I spoke with told me that "US Air does not have a code share with Skybus." She knew nothing about the $50 stand-by fares. Don't know what the was about...

I did make it back to North Carolina early this morning. I lucked out and knew someone who happen to be driving thru yesterday. Ended up driving 20 hours yesterday (had to take my rental back to Chicago) and got 3 hours of sleep, but I'm home!

Inkmahm
04-07-2008, 08:29 AM
They're also offering $10 standby fares to Skybus employees who are stuck.

I don't think the airlines are going to get loyalty from former Skybus passengers, who might pay a premium are of $1, but rather a source of just "good press" for the airline. That's what I was thinking, the value to the airlines is in the "good press" not in actually helping people and getting repeat customers.

Jeanne B
04-07-2008, 09:52 AM
That's what I was thinking, the value to the airlines is in the "good press" not in actually helping people and getting repeat customers.

Good press may gain new customers, or win back some of those they lost.

Lewisc
04-07-2008, 10:58 AM
What's missed is Skybus also "stranded" employees. Skybus may have had difficulty getting flight attendants to get on the plane if they were told they'd be on their own to get home. Once the announcement was made passengers would be bailing and getting FAs to work might be troublesome. There probably wasn't any way to give passengers a "heads up".

I'll speculate the major creditors knew bankruptcy was coming. The fact that the two leading executives "bailed ship" was a clue.



I think another thing might be getting lost in the mix, here: I believe it is illegal to warn customers before warning creditors, through the Chapter 11 or Chapter 13 filing.

Generally, businesses aren't "out to get" us. Rather, they're simply doing what they're supposed to do, and that isn't necessarily what is best for us.

springandmac
04-07-2008, 11:04 AM
I checked with US Air yesterday about re-booking my return with them, but the agent I spoke with told me that "US Air does not have a code share with Skybus." She knew nothing about the $50 stand-by fares. Don't know what the was about...

I did make it back to North Carolina early this morning. I lucked out and knew someone who happen to be driving thru yesterday. Ended up driving 20 hours yesterday (had to take my rental back to Chicago) and got 3 hours of sleep, but I'm home!

Glad you were able to get back. I feel bad that I probably won't be seeing the $300 I spent in airfare, but I'm glad that this happened two months prior to my trip. There's still time for me to create a new plan.

bicker
04-07-2008, 12:08 PM
That's what I was thinking, the value to the airlines is in the "good press" not in actually helping people and getting repeat customers.Unfortunately, too many customers are driven by low prices, not based on what they have received from the airline in the past.

bicker
04-07-2008, 12:10 PM
I'll speculate the major creditors knew bankruptcy was coming. The fact that the two leading executives "bailed ship" was a clue.Well the OP "knew" the bankruptcy was coming. The trick was knowing when, and avoiding being one of the folks left holding the bag. Some executives got out beforehand, some creditors got paid beforehand, some customers avoided booking beforehand, etc. Others didn't.

Lewisc
04-07-2008, 01:13 PM
My point is it's probably not feasible for an airline like Skybus to make an advance announcement, even ignoring possible legal reasons. Assuming 50% of the passengers are starting their trip load factors might not be high enough to cover the cost of fuel. No-shows by FA, who don't want to be "stranded" may make it impossible to fly some flights. Assume 50% of the FA are heading home, the other half might not be willing to fly unless Skybus gave them a return ticket from another airline.
An airline like Skybus probably has to stop flying as soon it's time to make a public announcement.


Creditors know how far behind the airline is in making payments. Creditors, being asked to extend terms, may have access to interim financial information reports. Creditors have access to more information then the general public.




Well the OP "knew" the bankruptcy was coming. The trick was knowing when, and avoiding being one of the folks left holding the bag. Some executives got out beforehand, some creditors got paid beforehand, some customers avoided booking beforehand, etc. Others didn't.

fla4fun
04-07-2008, 01:17 PM
Well the OP "knew" the bankruptcy was coming. The trick was knowing when, and avoiding being one of the folks left holding the bag. Some executives got out beforehand, some creditors got paid beforehand, some customers avoided booking beforehand, etc. Others didn't.

The OP posted at the beginning of April, I'm sure well after most of the stranded people purchased their tickets. These days, there's a fine line to walk between getting the lowest price by purchasing in advance, yet not purchasing so far in advance that your airline will go under before you get to fly. Of course, there were probably some people who bought tickets five minutes before they went out of business as well.

I'd be curious how many people are changing WHEN they buy their tickets, to try and avoid as much of this as possible.

bicker
04-07-2008, 03:33 PM
There is always Travel Insurance. If you cannot get Travel Insurance for a specific airline, then you probably don't want to buy the airline tickets in the first place. If you can buy Travel Insurance, and don't want to spend the extra money, then recognize that you're self-insuring against the possible loss we see folks experiencing here.

Lewisc
04-07-2008, 03:41 PM
There is always Travel Insurance. If you cannot get Travel Insurance for a specific airline, then you probably don't want to buy the airline tickets in the first place. If you can buy Travel Insurance, and don't want to spend the extra money, then recognize that you're self-insuring against the possible loss we see folks experiencing here.

Several other airlines accommodated Skybus passengers, $50 for standby. I think this is more a discussion of "what's fair". Should Skybus have given notice? I don't think they could have.

Assume your trip isn't for a few months. I know travel insurance will assist you with a refund, although your credit card will do the same thing. Will travel insurance cover the higher cost of purchasing a replacement ticket from another airline? I'm not sure, I never thought it did. I think it will cover the cost of getting you home, and additional hotel if your trip is interrupted

design_mom
04-07-2008, 03:55 PM
There is always Travel Insurance.

I think it will cover the cost of getting you home, and additional hotel if your trip is interrupted

According to the Columbus Dispatch, most travel insurance, including the kind sold by Skybus will *not* pay for hotel, cost of getting you home, etc. if your trip is interrupted because the airline goes out of business. It would if your flight was cancelled due to weather or mechanical troubles, but not because of default.

Here's the article: http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/04/06/skybus_qa.ART_ART_04-06-08_A1_BI9RK7L.html?sid=101 (See second question)

CarolA
04-07-2008, 04:02 PM
Well, the Dispatch article ONLY covers one insurance policy. I just did a quick check on ***************** and you can buy insurance that covers bankruptcy IF the airline is NOT in bankruptcy when you book the trip.

Here's the AIG Travelguard policy I just checked there...
Trip Cancellation and Interruption
The Insurer will reimburse the Insured, as described below, if a Trip is canceled or interrupted for the Insured due to any of the following Unforeseen circumstances: (a) Sickness, Injury, or death of an Insured, Immediate Family Member, Traveling Companion, or Business Partner. Injury or Sickness must be so disabling as to reasonably cause a Trip to be canceled or interrupted; (b) Inclement Weather causing delay or cancellation of travel; (c) Strike resulting in complete cessation of travel services at the point of departure or Destination. A Strike is foreseeable on the date labor union members vote to approve a Strike and is not covered under the policy; (d) the Insured's principal residence or Destination being made Uninhabitable by fire, flood, or similar Natural Disaster, vandalism, or burglary; (e) the Insured or a Traveling Companion being subpoenaed, required to serve on a jury, hijacked, or quarantined; (f) a Terrorist Incident in a City listed on the Insured's itinerary within 30 days of the Insured's scheduled arrival. "City" means an incorporated municipality having defined borders and does not include the high seas, uninhabited areas, or airspace; (g) Financial Default of an airline, cruise line, or tour operator resulting in the complete cessation of services. Financial Default occurring on or before the Insured's coverage effective date or less than fourteen days after the Insured's coverage effective date will not be covered. This coverage applies only if insurance was purchased within fifteen calendar days of Initial Trip payment.

Jeanne B
04-07-2008, 04:28 PM
I buy my trip insurance from TravelGuard and they cover financial default as long as you buy it within 15 days of purchasing your tickets, and the airline isn't on their "alert" list.

Not related to financial default but we had our flights canceled three years ago on our way to a cruise, we ended up having to fly out of a different airport and on a different airline two days later and we were reimbursed for the cost of the new tickets which were significantly higher than our original tickets (this was through the cruiseline insurance at the time).

design_mom
04-07-2008, 09:32 PM
Well, the Dispatch article ONLY covers one insurance policy. I just did a quick check on ***************** and you can buy insurance that covers bankruptcy IF the airline is NOT in bankruptcy when you book the trip.


Sorry about that. My mistake. I believe there was a companion article in the paper version of the Dispatch that talked about the ins and outs of travel insurance. I believe in that article they said that you should not assume it's included because it often isn't (but I can't find that article online). I usually "take my chances" and have been lucky so far, so I am definitely not an expert on travel insurance.

fla4fun
04-08-2008, 05:14 AM
Yes, you have to compare coverages carefully when buying travel insurance. That's why I like the insuremytrip website - it lets you compare many different policies with many different companies so you can get the one that best fits your needs.

I've used Travel Guard for any overseas trips, as much for the medical coverage as the trip coverage, since my health insurance is only good in the U.S.. I do always check the list of excluded airlines before making any flight plans and always buy the insurance within the 14 day window (again, more for the health portion, as they can exclude anything they consider a pre-existing condition if you don't buy within 14 days) and so far, I haven't seen any of my favorite airlines on the list. But they don't just put them on the list for possible financial default. If an airline is having labor trouble and a strike could be called, that's enough to get them on the "do not insure" list. So I wouldn't assume that any airline on the list is about to go under - it would simply raise a red flag to me that I needed to do a little more research if that airline was my only option.

tammymacb
04-08-2008, 09:18 AM
Personally I am AMAZED that any airline is giving you the $50 standby fares. The folks flying Skybus tend to be the "cheapest" at all time flyers. So I don't see the airlines getting any return loyal customers from this. Next time someone shows up with"too good to be true" fares these customers are GONE LOL!


IMHO, that was a very elitist thing to say. :confused:

I do not hold any Skybus tickets, but I feel sorry for the folks who do. I also don't think that anyone trying to get a deal on a vacation is "cheap" and has no loyalty.

My DH and I travel often. I can say hands down the WORST customer service I've ever had was with Continental Airlines. I was stranded for 3 days. NOT because of weather or mechanical difficulties but because the plane that was supposed to take me home was stuck in air traffic in Newark. You know WHEN I found out my plane was stuck? After my departure time had come and gone. Until then, there was no one at the gate to give updates and the air board showed "On time". Meanwhile, I sat in the airport, fat and happy, reading a book while USair flights to Charlotte took off around me. I could have gotten home from Charlotte, but Continental didn't have the decency to tell me I was stranded. :mad: And when they finally did have share that little tidbit with us, they added that the flight was sold out for the next 3 days. It cost me $700.00 of my money to get home. I called Continental to complain and could not get past the first tier of customer service reps. They absolutly refused to transfer me above that point.

Or how'bout USair. I had two tickets to Bridgetown, Barbados. We were going away for DH's birthday in February. I showed up, checked in and guess where the ticket agent booked me to....?Bemidji, Minnisota..:scared1: The only reason I caught it was the connections ( which I was told had changed :confused: ) looked really wrong. By the time that mess was sorted out, I'd missed the only flight to Barbados for the day.

My point is, to have the attitude that if you book cheap airfare, expect this, is wrong. In my experience, every single airline has as bad customer service as the next. Not one of them cares about customer service and good luck to all of us.

My next flight is Delta out of Atlanta to Bonaire. ( $900.00 tickets folks- which flies once a week :scared1: ). I leave on a Saturday, but am using extra money from my pocket to fly in Friday and spend the night at an airport hotel. Why? Because if my flight from Charleston to Atlanta gets delayed, I'm screwed and I know Delta could care less.

I have no loyalty to the airlines, as they have none to me, a customer. I wish the Skybus folks the best of luck with their refunds and thier standbys. If you were on a tight budget trying to get a summer trip this year, that sucks and I'm sorry.

springandmac
04-08-2008, 10:18 AM
IMHO, that was a very elitist thing to say. :confused:

I do not hold any Skybus tickets, but I feel sorry for the folks who do. I also don't think that anyone trying to get a deal on a vacation is "cheap" and has no loyalty.


I have no loyalty to the airlines, as they have none to me, a customer. I wish the Skybus folks the best of luck with their refunds and thier standbys. If you were on a tight budget trying to get a summer trip this year, that sucks and I'm sorry.


Thank you tammymacb! I've been watching this thread because I DID hold Skybus tickets and I was hoping that someone might post some helpful ideas for those of us tightwads who bought tickets and have now lost our money. But no such luck.

Lewisc
04-08-2008, 10:53 AM
Thank you tammymacb! I've been watching this thread because I DID hold Skybus tickets and I was hoping that someone might post some helpful ideas for those of us tightwads who bought tickets and have now lost our money. But no such luck.

Contact your credit card company. You'll probably get a refund. Did you use a debit card with a V or MC logo? Contact your bank, some banks are giving those people a refund.

Carol's post isn't elitist. Her point is very valid. Most passengers who used Skybus booked based on price ONLY. Not the kind of passengers that are likely show loyalty to any carrier.

I was accused of being anti-Skybus every time I warned posters that the airline wasn't long for the world, and to check all the hidden fees to make sure you're saving real money. More then one poster was very unhappy with the rental car rates.

My favorite posts were the customers who said how good the Skybus service was. I don't think any company that doesn't have a published phone number can provide good service. A company wants to save money and not have a toll free number---no problem.

JodyLynC
04-08-2008, 11:45 AM
Personally I am AMAZED that any airline is giving you the $50 standby fares. The folks flying Skybus tend to be the "cheapest" at all time flyers. So I don't see the airlines getting any return loyal customers from this. Next time someone shows up with"too good to be true" fares these customers are GONE LOL!

Actually, that is not true at all. I know several people who have well-paying jobs and are generous with their funds that flew Skybus several times for various reasons. For example, assisting with local economy. Having an airline based here in Columbus was great for our airport and our city. Some of my friends and collegues flew Skybus when they could to help the business get a foothold and get going. Also, I've heard good reviews about the service at least for the Columbus flyers. Maybe others in other cities have had different experiences. Another bonus was the alternate airports. I have a friend who was able to fly Columbus to St. Augustine non-stop on Skybus.

As others have posted only a few seats were "cheap." I did price Skybus for our May trip to Florida. It would have come out to about $150 per person round trip. Not the $20 that seems to get the big press.

bicker
04-08-2008, 11:59 AM
Actually, that is not true at all. I know several people who have well-paying jobs and are generous with their funds that flew Skybus several times for various reasons.Outliers never drive a market. Indeed, outliers always must accept that the market will often treat them as if they're typical.

As others have posted only a few seats were "cheap." I did price Skybus for our May trip to Florida. It would have come out to about $150 per person round trip. Not the $20 that seems to get the big press.Any time a jet aircraft lifts its wheels off the ground, with you on-board, and you paid less than $275 round-trip, the airfare was "cheap".

JodyLynC
04-08-2008, 12:07 PM
Outliers never drive a market. Indeed, outliers always must accept that the market will often treat them as if they're typical.

Any time a jet aircraft lifts its wheels off the ground, with you on-board, and you paid less than $275 round-trip, the airfare was "cheap".

Actually, it depends on where you are traveling.

tammymacb
04-08-2008, 02:08 PM
Carol's post isn't elitist. Her point is very valid. Most passengers who used Skybus booked based on price ONLY. Not the kind of passengers that are likely show loyalty to any carrier.



Oh, I'm sorry. I must have misunderstood. She ( LOL'd ) about not understanding why any airlines would give a hand to folks who were stuck or about to lose their vacations, especially since they were the cheapest kind of people with no loyalty. If elitist doesn't discribe the statement, maybe I should have used mean spirited?
:rolleyes:

CarolA
04-08-2008, 03:42 PM
Oh, I'm sorry. I must have misunderstood. She ( LOL'd ) about not understanding why any airlines would give a hand to folks who were stuck or about to lose their vacations, especially since they were the cheapest kind of people with no loyalty. If elitist doesn't discribe the statement, maybe I should have used mean spirited?
:rolleyes:

I am sorry, but I fail to see why you expect the other airlines to "bail" you out. The people who flew skybus voted with their pocketbooks. "We want cheap" When Skybus was cheaper the SW, USAir, Delta etc off they went and now they want "rewards"? :rotfl2: You want these airlines to fly you home or to your vacation for less then cost? And will you remember that NEXT time and book with them when it costs $20 more or will you go "Well Bubba airlines is cheaper so let's save that money" Probably the latter.....

Lets examine that model. Skybus flew you there for less then cost. And now... Skybus is "skybust" So... let's get USAir, SW etc to honor those tickets where they have NO hope of getting any cash? Sure what's a few more bankrupt airlines LOL!

And there is NO relationship that I know of between what you MAKE and what you pay to fly. This isn't a "sliding" scale industry. Theres nothing "elite" about it. Rich people can be cheap too LOL! (Probably how they got to be rich) I have never seen any corrrelation between income and airfare. It's not like people making more then others want to spend it on airfare LOL!

Posters on this very board have been pointing out the "skybus" model issues from Day 1. We got flamed because "it has lots of funding" etc. and told we were just mean. Hmm.... I would never have flown them because I didn't think this model was going to work and I would not have wanted to accept what I viewed as a HIGH risk that this very thing would happen. When you booked "too good to be true" then you were accepting that risk.

tammymacb
04-08-2008, 03:52 PM
Again, I don't hold Skybus tickets and I don't expect a "bailout".

However I do believe your post was mean spirited and unnecessary and I hope when you have the unfortunate issue of being *stuck* by your airline ( and most travelers do ) you are treated with more compassion than you show.

BTW, next time you may want to read the posts before you answer them.

dvcnewgirl
04-08-2008, 03:55 PM
I guess I am cheap and do not spend enough time researching airlines before I plan my vacation.. stupid I guess that when they added a route from Richmond I did not figure they were going under.. Oh well I guess I deserve to lose my $$.. Thanks for pointing it out..:headache:

CarolA
04-08-2008, 04:03 PM
Again, I don't hold Skybus tickets and I don't expect a "bailout".

However I do believe your post was mean spirited and unnecessary and I hope when you have the unfortunate issue of being *stuck* by your airline ( and most travelers do ) you are treated with more compassion than you show.

BTW, next time you may want to read the posts before you answer them.
I am stuck right now LOL! I have been stuck more times then most of you have flown. I was on Eastern when they shut down. (We drove home) I had a family member have to buy a walk up fare from Europe when his airline went bust LOL! It happens and you deal with it, but....


(I read you post you called me "Mean spirted" and "elitest". Now what would you like to call me? I don't think that name calling is a good habit to get into, but I guess...... to each thier own! I am also a "realist" Airlines exist to make money. It's not a charity to get you on a cheap vacation. Sorry if that fact is disturbing!)

tammymacb
04-08-2008, 04:10 PM
As a matter of record... I never said you were elitist or mean spirited. I said your posts were...

Lewisc
04-08-2008, 04:21 PM
I guess I am cheap and do not spend enough time researching airlines before I plan my vacation.. stupid I guess that when they added a route from Richmond I did not figure they were going under.. Oh well I guess I deserve to lose my $$.. Thanks for pointing it out..:headache:

Why are you losing your $$$? Credit card companies are processing refunds. Many banks are even refunding purchases made with a debit card.

Always pay for airline tickets with a credit card. You get the best protection. Probably true for any online/credit card purchase.

You don't have to do a lot of research. $10 fares is a clue. The fact that Skybus doesn't have a listed phone number is another clue. I understand not wanting to pay for a toll free number. I understand not wanting to pay reservation agents. I can't understand expecting service from a company that doesn't want any phone calls.

A few airlines are offering Skybus passengers standby travel, for a very time limited time period, for a limited number airport pairs. The airlines are getting good press. This may prevent the government from requiring far more.

The people who think the airlines may be gaining new (profitable) customers from this action are not being realistic. Carol's point is passengers who booked Skybus are the passengers who are going to troll for the lowest fare, no matter what.

CarolA
04-08-2008, 04:26 PM
It's interesting that no one on this thread has said that "if SW, DL etc. honored my ticket I would probably always book them in the future" If the airlines thought they could get that kind of loyalty in return for being generous then I bet they would do it. But I don't think it would work that way.

Lewisc
04-08-2008, 04:31 PM
It's interesting that no one on this thread has said that "if SW, DL etc. honored my ticket I would probably always book them in the future" If the airlines thought they could get that kind of loyalty in return for being generous then I bet they would do it. But I don't think it would work that way.


They would always book that airline as long as that airline had the best price.

springandmac
04-08-2008, 04:38 PM
It's interesting that no one on this thread has said that "if SW, DL etc. honored my ticket I would probably always book them in the future" If the airlines thought they could get that kind of loyalty in return for being generous then I bet they would do it. But I don't think it would work that way.


Why does anyone have to be loyal to an airline?

MrMarv
04-08-2008, 04:40 PM
The business model for Skybus was flat-out unsustainable, as Carol pointed out, and all of the ominous items Lewis pointed out were also a no-brainer for avoiding Skybus and other similarly-structured airlines.

With the dreadful financial conditions that the 'legacy carriers' find themselves in thanks to the exploding price of jet fuel and other assorted factors, they aren't required to honor those Skybus prices, but they certainly have the option to get you back home at their prevailing price.

springandmac
04-08-2008, 04:45 PM
You don't have to do a lot of research. $10 fares is a clue.

This is called a loss leader

A loss leader is a product sold at a low price (at cost or below cost)to stimulate other, profitable sales. It is a kind of sales promotion, in other words marketing concentrating on a pricing strategy. The price can even be so low that the product is sold at a loss.

I guess I should assume that all companies who run loss leaders are going out of business soon too.

Lewisc
04-08-2008, 04:53 PM
This is called a loss leader

A loss leader is a product sold at a low price (at cost or below cost)to stimulate other, profitable sales. It is a kind of sales promotion, in other words marketing concentrating on a pricing strategy. The price can even be so low that the product is sold at a loss.

I guess I should assume that all companies who run loss leaders are going out of business soon too.

I'm confused. How does a $10 fare lead to other profitable sales? This isn't a loss leader at a supermarket. CC and BB run a loss leader on a TV, they hope they can profitably sell over priced monster cables, service contracts and even installation. The entire purchase may be profitable.

How many sodas would Skybus have to sell each passenger to make money on a $10 flight?

The model was flawed.

goofy4tink
04-08-2008, 05:02 PM
You know people.....this is close to being shut down. There have been some not so nice things tossed around. As we've all said before...no pixie dust on the transportation board. IF that translates into a post being nasty, I'm sorry. But, there is no room for possible misinterpretation here...so, please try to keep your posts as truthful and straightforward as possible.
No one likes a nice discussion more than I, but insults and arguments will not be allowed.

Lewisc
04-08-2008, 05:13 PM
I won't post any more in this thread.

Passengers with future flights are getting credit card refunds. Passengers with an interrupted trip had the option of a $50 standby fare. Maybe they got lucky and maybe they had to hang out in an airport for a day or two. I don't see that many passengers getting treated unfairly.

I don't think Carol's comment was mean spirited or elitist.

Skybus model was seriously flawed. The results speak for itself. A supermarket running a "loss leader" for toilet paper gets in pallets of extra inventory. Probably got some price and/or promotional allowance from the mfg. Skybus has a finite number of seats to sell on each flight. A $10 seat is one less seat to sell at a profitable fare.

Given the price of jet fuel I don't think there is anything Skybus could have done.




You know people.....this is close to being shut down. There have been some not so nice things tossed around. As we've all said before...no pixie dust on the transportation board. IF that translates into a post being nasty, I'm sorry. But, there is no room for possible misinterpretation here...so, please try to keep your posts as truthful and straightforward as possible.
No one likes a nice discussion more than I, but insults and arguments will not be allowed.

springandmac
04-08-2008, 05:34 PM
I won't post any more in this thread.

Passengers with future flights are getting credit card refunds. Passengers with an interrupted trip had the option of a $50 standby fare. Maybe they got lucky and maybe they had to hang out in an airport for a day or two.

I don't think Carol's comment was mean spirited or elitist.

I don't think I'll post of this BOARD anymore. I ran across one of goofy4tinks post the other day and I didn't understand why she had "there's no pixie dust on the transportation board" in her signature......I do now!

Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to figure out what box to check on my dispute form so I can try to get a refund for the 6 skybus tickets I purchased with my debit card. :sad2:

bavaria
04-08-2008, 05:50 PM
Why does anyone have to be loyal to an airline?

Nobody has to be loyal to an airline. But airlines reward those who are.

They don't reward those who are loyal to price, rather than loyal to carrier.

goofy4tink
04-08-2008, 05:59 PM
I don't think I'll post of this BOARD anymore. I ran across one of goofy4tinks post the other day and I didn't understand why she had "there's no pixie dust on the transportation board" in her signature......I do now!

Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to figure out what box to check on my dispute form so I can try to get a refund for the 6 skybus tickets I purchased with my debit card. :sad2:
Let me try to explain that 'quote'....
on many other boards, here on the DIS, there is much magic and pixiedust, much silliness and all out good old fun. I like fun as much as the next person, and I've been told I'm a pixiedust spreader! But...here on the Transportation board, we talk of airline travel, discounts that may be available, the best way to deal with the TSA and security..etc. These types of things are extremely important....if misinformation is given, even in jest, it could ruin someone's trip. So, we try to hand out good info, as best we can while trying to have a bit of fun. A lot of people come here to get insights into how to solve an issue with the airlines. Sometimes that person is looking for the impossible, and they are given the facts that support that. Sometimes though, the poster is looking to be made to feel better or is looking for a completely different answer, even though that answer may not be a good one. We don't do a lot of hugging around here. If we do, we do it via PMs. We all want everyone to have a great travel experience. But sometimes our posts are misinterpreted and perceived to be harsh or unfeeling. Nothing could be further from the truth....we're just trying to be accurate and realistic.
I'm sorry if there are some that disagree with this type philosophy...but it seems to work pretty well here, for the most part.

bavaria
04-08-2008, 06:06 PM
I'm going to go a little off topic and jump in, since I believe that I may have started the 'no pixie dust' thing years ago ;)

Today I was flying (as usual). I was in the 'elite' security line, and the three people in front of me apparently felt that anything goes in air travel. They had things confiscated right and left while I stood watching and waiting.

One of the things which was confiscated was something which two posters and I agreed should not be packed in a carry on on a thread here a few days ago. Yet when we posted that, others came along and said 'oh no, go ahead and take it - here's some pixie dust!' Well, the pixie dust does nothing. TSA doesn't like it, it makes them sneeze. They don't care that BettyLou on the DIS told you that it was ok to pack the item.

Blame BettyLou for giving you bad advice, and don't blame the posters who post facts and straight forward information. It may not be sugar coated, but it is much more realistic and valuable than the simply wrong information I read here every day.

I hope that there isn't a poster named BettyLou on the DISboard - I was just using that name as an example...

pr surfer
04-08-2008, 06:24 PM
There's Disney and there's the cold reality of transportation and non-Disney business.

Transportation is not within Disney's control (yet), and as a result, the common sense (or lack thereof niceness) attributed to the mouse will not be available with most air carriers and most of the government employees (whether necessary or workfare) involved with getting you to Disney.

The only person there with Pixie dust is you. The TSA could care less, the airline employees could likely care less too.

Fin.

dvcnewgirl
04-08-2008, 06:52 PM
I don't think I'll post of this BOARD anymore. I ran across one of goofy4tinks post the other day and I didn't understand why she had "there's no pixie dust on the transportation board" in her signature......I do now!

Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to figure out what box to check on my dispute form so I can try to get a refund for the 6 skybus tickets I purchased with my debit card. :sad2:

I'll join you.. hopefully those of us that believed we could fly skybus can figure out the papers.:rolleyes:

bab31
04-08-2008, 07:06 PM
Why does anyone have to be loyal to an airline?


I am loyal to Midwest. for a number of reasons- I use my midwest master card and gain miles- they have a program called miles and $$$, I dont eat all my miles when I fly- and it wont cost me more than $200 to use the miles and $$$. They give us cookies:goodvibes They have held a flight for me 3 times.:goodvibes They gave us vouchers ( everyone on the flight) when it was waaayyyy delayed for maintenance. I fly Midwest whenever I can. The layover times tend not to be long. I was looking for airfare for my family reunion in Arkansas. I was booking on another credit card that has a concierge travel agency- finally Midwest came up and I booked :thumbsup2 I would rather spend a little more if it means I can fly Midwest. Midwest is competitive with the airlines flying out of my area. - oh yeah as far as I know you can still check two bags:rotfl2: :rotfl2: :worship: but I am sure that will catch up as well as the other airlines jumping on board!

bicker
04-08-2008, 07:07 PM
Any time a jet aircraft lifts its wheels off the ground, with you on-board, and you paid less than $275 round-trip, the airfare was "cheap".Actually, it depends on where you are traveling.No. My point was that it doesn't. There are certain fixed costs associated with just taking you off the ground (including the cost of customer acquisition, equipment maintenance, ticketing, etc.), even if flying from IAH to HOU. If I remember correctly, that's somewhere near $275 round-trip. Every penny you pay less than that consider yourself lucky.

pr surfer
04-08-2008, 07:10 PM
Why does anyone have to be loyal to an airline?
Because loyalty is rewarded. In my case, I'll be going to Fiji, Las Vegas, DLR, and London for free (well, I gotta pay the taxes) because of my loyalty.

To remain loyal, I'm paying out of pocket to go to São Paulo, Boston, Miami (many times), Munich, and commuting across the Caribbean.

bicker
04-08-2008, 07:11 PM
Why does anyone have to be loyal to an airline?Some people think that they are, and think that the airlines should treat them better as a result. The reality is practically no one actually is and therefore the airlines should treat them like everyone else, i.e., based on the assumption that passengers will focus on price over all other factors, including service.

pr surfer
04-08-2008, 07:13 PM
Skybus model was seriously flawed.

extremely flawed. The only concepts they borrowed from Ryanair were sell cheap, use smaller airports, and nickel and dime your pax, nothing else.

They flew city pairs that weren't served (for a reason. RyanAir flies to cities relevant to both leisure and business pax), had new planes and the expense associate as such (Ryanair started small with a single route and turboprop aircraft and worked their way up), and operated from investors money as opposed to their own revenue.

They were dead before they started. Someone just needed to tell them that.

pr surfer
04-08-2008, 07:15 PM
Some people think that they are, and think that the airlines should treat them better as a result. The reality is practically no one actually is and therefore the airlines should treat them like everyone else, i.e., based on the assumption that passengers will focus on price over all other factors, including service.
hmmm... I thought I was (well, as of Nov 07, I thought.. lol. sorry for the old screenshot, but it's easier than taking a new one and blurring out my details)

http://www.mkt3000.com/files/aa-page-clean.jpg

bab31
04-08-2008, 07:28 PM
can I be your best friend!!!:lmao: ;) :thumbsup2 :worship: :worship:

bicker
04-08-2008, 07:43 PM
That's why I said "practically no one", Robert.

And how many passengers are like you, Robert? Not bloody many.

springandmac
04-08-2008, 07:54 PM
Let me try to explain that 'quote'....
on many other boards, here on the DIS, there is much magic and pixiedust, much silliness and all out good old fun. I like fun as much as the next person, and I've been told I'm a pixiedust spreader! But...here on the Transportation board, we talk of airline travel, discounts that may be available, the best way to deal with the TSA and security..etc. These types of things are extremely important....if misinformation is given, even in jest, it could ruin someone's trip. So, we try to hand out good info, as best we can while trying to have a bit of fun. A lot of people come here to get insights into how to solve an issue with the airlines. Sometimes that person is looking for the impossible, and they are given the facts that support that. Sometimes though, the poster is looking to be made to feel better or is looking for a completely different answer, even though that answer may not be a good one. We don't do a lot of hugging around here. If we do, we do it via PMs. We all want everyone to have a great travel experience. But sometimes our posts are misinterpreted and perceived to be harsh or unfeeling. Nothing could be further from the truth....we're just trying to be accurate and realistic.
I'm sorry if there are some that disagree with this type philosophy...but it seems to work pretty well here, for the most part.

Well from now on I think I'll go get my hugs from my other cheap peeps on the budget board.

bavaria
04-08-2008, 08:02 PM
And how many passengers are like you, Robert? Not bloody many.
over on flyertalk.com he is pretty much the norm, actually.... I flew over 200,000 miles last year

bavaria
04-08-2008, 08:03 PM
Well from now on I think I'll go get my hugs from my other cheap peeps on the budget board.

Sorry to see you go. Hopefully you will receive accurate advice as well as those hugs. Not many of the travel experts post over there.

Best of luck :)

crashbb
04-08-2008, 08:53 PM
over on flyertalk.com he is pretty much the norm, actually.... I flew over 200,000 miles last year

I'm another who is loyal to an airline (or at least alliance). I'll fly with them even if they are more expensive and/or chose a fare that gives me points rather than a cheaper fare that doesn't (within reason, of course). The 'perks' that I get are worth it.

bavaria
04-08-2008, 08:59 PM
Exactly! I am extremely loyal to Star Alliance. My trip today once again proved how certain airlines treat their loyal customers :)

I will pay more for the benefits and the service I receive. It is worth it to me.

CarolA
04-08-2008, 09:22 PM
Why does anyone have to be loyal to an airline?

Why should the airline now fly you home or on vacation for free or cheap simply because Skybus shut down?


And Bicker, I am another one of those with LOTS of miles. There are more of us "road warriors" then you realize! LOL!

But wait... you may not be getting those refunds. Maybe you will get those flights. (Personally I think this is a crazy idea, but it was in the USAToday)

Skybus founder 'working on a plan' to revive carrier
Skybus founder John Weikle is "working on a plan" to get the ultra-low-cost carrier back in the air again, according to the News & Record of Greensboro, N.C. Weikle's comments on reviving Skybus came just days after the carrier halted flights, stranded passengers and declared bankruptcy. "John Weikle said Monday night from Dayton, Ohio, that he had been working all weekend to build a team that could reorganize the airline and restore service," the News & Record writes. "I wrote a letter to the board today and said we've got to find a way to save this — save these 450 jobs," Weikle tells the paper.

How does he plan to do it? Weikle says the carrier still has about $10 million in cash to work with, which he believes will be enough seed money to lure new investors. The News & Record writes "Weikle is working with Mark Sparling, his vice president for finance during the founding of Skybus. Sparling and Weikle left Skybus not long before it began operations because they disagreed with the board’s direction and its choice for chief executive officer, Bill Diffenderffer." Stay tuned ...

BigTigger
04-08-2008, 09:26 PM
Maybe because I live near Boston and have seen many airlines enter and leave our "end point" market, I can't get too worked up over Skybus becoming Skybust. We've had Allegiant try and fail in Worcester, Pan AM fail twice at Pease, Eastern go poof, USAir cut most of the former Piedmont flights after acquisition, Delta forget that it's legacy here (Northeast Airlines merger) is as a Florida carrier, etc.

It's great while it lasts and I took advantage of Skybus to fly a daughter who goes to college near Greensboro back and forth for $50 to $60 each way on average.

I'm a loyal flyer like some of you who posted on this thread (2 million miler on Delta, 1 million miler on United), but also realize you don't get the perks you used to on the legacy carriers. Regional jets have greatly reduced the upgrade chances on the shorter flights and the fees on the supposedly "free" travel perks have been creeping in.

As CarolA said and I paraphrase - rich and poor people can be cheap when it comes to flying. I'm definitely cheap, but also realize you can't get something for nothing for long without changes happening that you may not like :cloud9:

NeedaVacation03
04-08-2008, 09:39 PM
But wait... you may not be getting those refunds. Maybe you will get those flights. (Personally I think this is a crazy idea, but it was in the USAToday)

Skybus founder 'working on a plan' to revive carrier
Skybus founder John Weikle is "working on a plan" to get the ultra-low-cost carrier back in the air again, according to the News & Record of Greensboro, N.C. Weikle's comments on reviving Skybus came just days after the carrier halted flights, stranded passengers and declared bankruptcy. "John Weikle said Monday night from Dayton, Ohio, that he had been working all weekend to build a team that could reorganize the airline and restore service," the News & Record writes. "I wrote a letter to the board today and said we've got to find a way to save this — save these 450 jobs," Weikle tells the paper.

How does he plan to do it? Weikle says the carrier still has about $10 million in cash to work with, which he believes will be enough seed money to lure new investors. The News & Record writes "Weikle is working with Mark Sparling, his vice president for finance during the founding of Skybus. Sparling and Weikle left Skybus not long before it began operations because they disagreed with the board’s direction and its choice for chief executive officer, Bill Diffenderffer." Stay tuned ...

That was the rumor going around a group I was speaking with on Sunday (I live in Columbus). The other thing that was discussed was the fact that Skybus was very against the Pilots wanting a Union and would not allow that to happen. I dont know how true any of that is, but I think people would be nuts to try it again. I agree with everyone who stated that the model was flawed from the beginning. I am as "cheap" as the next person, but a bad plan is still a bad plan. I told DH that he and I could fly them, but I would not take the kids(we have 4). The reason for no kids, was I could afford 2 tickets if something went wrong, but not 6.
I am sorry for anyone who got stuck. It is a terrible thing for the local economy. But I can not see welcoming them back with open arms.

springandmac
04-08-2008, 09:55 PM
Why should the airline now fly you home or on vacation for free or cheap simply because Skybus shut down?

:confused3

I hope the Mods shut this thread down.

bavaria
04-08-2008, 09:58 PM
Why? It is an interesting conversation, and if you don't like it, others may actually find something of value here.

When Canada 3000 shut down, they stranded their passengers all over the world, not just North America. It was a difficult time for those people, who did not have the ability to find an international carrier willing to take them home. Nor did they receive refunds for their expenses.

The Skybus tale is a lesson learned for many travellers, just like the Canada 3000 story and many like it before.

bavaria
04-08-2008, 10:04 PM
Skybus was a relatively small airline; Canada 3000 was the 2nd largest airline in Canada with more than 40 aircraft, and routes all over the world. Their passengers didn't receive much assistance, and for those at Canada 3000 international destinations they were definitely out of luck:

Air Canada said it would let stranded Canada 3000 passengers buy one-way tickets to return home at 50 per cent off Air Canada's normal rates. For those Canada 3000 travellers who haven't started their travel, Air Canada said it would allow them to buy tickets without the normal advance booking restrictions that usually apply to discounted tickets.

WestJet said it would not directly honour Canada 3000 tickets, but would "assist those Canada 3000 passengers who have been stranded." WestJet said it has seats available for travel this weekend.

Air Transat said it would offer Canada 3000 customers "preferential rates" and would add flights and capacity in Toronto and Montreal.

Tour operator Signature Vacations said it would fly home its stranded passengers at its expense.

Via Rail will not honour Canada 3000 tickets, but will add extra cars on some routes

The Skybus passengers who do manage to get the $50 fares from other airlines are actually extremely fortunate, as there is no requirement for US carriers to do this for those travellers. Hopefully some of them will in fact become loyal to the carrier who helps them while they are stranded.

springandmac
04-08-2008, 10:11 PM
Why?

Because certain posters seem to be fanning the flames with their comments and the whole "I told you so" attitude of the thread isn't helping anyone.

bavaria
04-08-2008, 10:16 PM
I really did try and be pleasant and I don't understand the hoopla on this thread. I actually went back and read it twice to try and understand

However if you don't like what someone has to say, you have a few choices

don't read the thread
put the person on ignore
report the post to a moderator


I consider this board to be one of the most fairly moderated, and enjoy the discussion about travel topics. Many others do as well

I'm sorry that you haven't enjoyed your time here, but it has been an interesting discussion about a very relavent topic. (Personally, I believe that we will see at least one more US carrier fold in the coming months, and many readers are trying to determine how it may impact them)

Hopefully you will find other threads here that you do enjoy :)

DebbieB
04-08-2008, 10:28 PM
USAirways is only helping passengers to/from Columbus or Greensboro and selected cities only (Sanford and Orlando are not on the list). Only until April 11. And only a standby basis (so the seats would be empty otherwise). Probably a relatively small number of people (compared to their total passengers carried this week).

http://www.usairways.com/common/resources/_downloads/aboutus/pressroom/04_05_08_FINAL_Skybus_web.pdf

MrMarv
04-08-2008, 10:47 PM
I'm also inclined to think that one of the six 'legacy carriers' will be gone by year's end; the current price of jet fuel is not making things any easier for them, and neither is our sinking economy.

pr surfer
04-08-2008, 11:50 PM
That's why I said "practically no one", Robert.

And how many passengers are like you, Robert? Not bloody many.
In my immediate family, Both of my parents, 2 of my siblings, and myself.

And I've had status since I was 10 :)

pr surfer
04-08-2008, 11:54 PM
can I be your best friend!!!:lmao: ;) :thumbsup2 :worship: :worship:
I did a Disneyland trip for a group of 3 last year, paid for exclusively with miles.

I picked up airfare for 3 (we flew exit row on new AA 737's MCO-DFW-SNA), 6 nights at the Grand Californian, they paid all taxes and fees involved. They paid for the rental car, since what we wanted wasn't available for free, my dinner at Club 33, and my souvenirs at WDI in Glendale.

That was a good use of 250k-ish miles if I ever could think of one.

pr surfer
04-08-2008, 11:57 PM
Why should the airline now fly you home or on vacation for free or cheap simply because Skybus shut down?


And Bicker, I am another one of those with LOTS of miles. There are more of us "road warriors" then you realize! LOL!

But wait... you may not be getting those refunds. Maybe you will get those flights. (Personally I think this is a crazy idea, but it was in the USAToday)

Skybus founder 'working on a plan' to revive carrier
Skybus founder John Weikle is "working on a plan" to get the ultra-low-cost carrier back in the air again, according to the News & Record of Greensboro, N.C. Weikle's comments on reviving Skybus came just days after the carrier halted flights, stranded passengers and declared bankruptcy. "John Weikle said Monday night from Dayton, Ohio, that he had been working all weekend to build a team that could reorganize the airline and restore service," the News & Record writes. "I wrote a letter to the board today and said we've got to find a way to save this — save these 450 jobs," Weikle tells the paper.

How does he plan to do it? Weikle says the carrier still has about $10 million in cash to work with, which he believes will be enough seed money to lure new investors. The News & Record writes "Weikle is working with Mark Sparling, his vice president for finance during the founding of Skybus. Sparling and Weikle left Skybus not long before it began operations because they disagreed with the board’s direction and its choice for chief executive officer, Bill Diffenderffer." Stay tuned ...
How does he plan to do it?

If I were him, I'd 1- Ditch columbus for a base city people want to go to, rather than return to; 2- Ditch these out of the way secondary airports for more central secondary airports (St. Augustine?!!? get real. Sanford or Lakeland please... in fact, LAL is closer to WDW than SFB); 3- SELL YOUR FREAKING PLANES! Lease, LEASE, LEEEEEEEASE! You need that money!

pr surfer
04-09-2008, 12:00 AM
Exactly! I am extremely loyal to Star Alliance. My trip today once again proved how certain airlines treat their loyal customers :)

I will pay more for the benefits and the service I receive. It is worth it to me.
With the exception of US/UA, I've only had good experiences on Star Alliance. I finagled status with UA last year and took advantage when I went to DLRP on a cheap last minute Air Canada ticket (unique in its rarity... a cheap last minute ticket!). MCO-YUL-CDG/CDG-YUL-MCO, drink Fin du Monde in the Maple Leaf Lounge in Montreal, and remember the French I once knew all the way to Paris.

MAH4546
04-09-2008, 04:32 AM
I'm also inclined to think that one of the six 'legacy carriers' will be gone by year's end; the current price of jet fuel is not making things any easier for them, and neither is our sinking economy.

Not happening. The legacy airlines each have billions in cash reserves.

bicker
04-09-2008, 06:11 AM
over on flyertalk.com he is pretty much the norm, actually.... Just like we're the norm here in DISboards, yet most folks visiting WDW are NOT like us.

bicker
04-09-2008, 06:13 AM
And Bicker, I am another one of those with LOTS of miles. There are more of us "road warriors" then you realize! LOL!Nope. I used to be one. There are a lot more leisure travelers than you realize! LOL!

How many of each is not the point, though. Unless you have have up-to-date elite ff status with the airline you're flying, then you're not "loyal", and shouldn't expect any special consideration.

goofy4tink
04-09-2008, 06:13 AM
Well from now on I think I'll go get my hugs from my other cheap peeps on the budget board.
Now my feelings have been hurt :thumbsup2 I really hope you don't leave us and head to the Budget board. Not saying they're not great people too, but we do have a ton of good info to share here.

:confused3

I hope the Mods shut this thread down.
This is actually now a nice, pleasant thread. I'm sorry if there are those who don't particularly love the things that people are saying, but facts are facts.

Because certain posters seem to be fanning the flames with their comments and the whole "I told you so" attitude of the thread isn't helping anyone.
Again, I'm really sorry you feel this way. I have seen posters stating facts, in a calm, conversational way. I think that issue is that there are some posters who are used to the 'tone' of other boards. This board is very matter of fact. And believe me, I have seen them 'fanning the flames' here....there is no flame fanning going on on this thread! This board is just not a huggy, lovey dovey board. So...as long as everyone remains as they are now, we're good to go.

bicker
04-09-2008, 06:15 AM
Because certain posters seem to be fanning the flames with their comments and the whole "I told you so" attitude of the thread isn't helping anyone.I disagree. I think threads which project the "everything will be alright" attitude, or the "they should take care of you" attitude, are doing a gross disservice to readers, fostering unreasonable and therefore unreliable expectations.

bicker
04-09-2008, 06:16 AM
In my immediate family, Both of my parents, 2 of my siblings, and myself.Okay, so that's five out of 360 million. Keep counting.

kaytieeldr
04-09-2008, 06:23 AM
Um, I'm loyal to JetBlue... never mind that I only travel two, maybe three times a year; never get enough TrueBlue points for a free flight; and won't have their AmEx card... :)

dvcnewgirl
04-09-2008, 06:52 AM
Now my feelings have been hurt :thumbsup2 I really hope you don't leave us and head to the Budget board. Not saying they're not great people too, but we do have a ton of good info to share here.


This is actually now a nice, pleasant thread. I'm sorry if there are those who don't particularly love the things that people are saying, but facts are facts.


Again, I'm really sorry you feel this way. I have seen posters stating facts, in a calm, conversational way. I think that issue is that there are some posters who are used to the 'tone' of other boards. This board is very matter of fact. And believe me, I have seen them 'fanning the flames' here....there is no flame fanning going on on this thread! This board is just not a huggy, lovey dovey board. So...as long as everyone remains as they are now, we're good to go.


Nice pleasant thread I think not.. I think as a mod you should support all people in your forum.. I sent you a PM

bicker
04-09-2008, 07:01 AM
Um, I'm loyal to JetBlue... never mind that I only travel two, maybe three times a year; never get enough TrueBlue points for a free flight; and won't have their AmEx card... :)And, with respect, I don't believe it. If another airline came to town, undercutting JetBlue's prices, and providing the same level of service, I think it as likely as not that most of JetBlue's professed "loyal" customers would jump ship.

You've been here long enough to know my background. I spent 8 years as at the Bell Laboratories Quality Assurance and Customer Loyalty Center. I watched the concept of consumer loyalty go straight into the toilet, as consumers become maniacally price-driven. It has only gotten worse since I changed careers (in disgust over what I saw happening in the quality and customer loyalty realm). And although some people will remain "loyal", outliers don't drive the market, and those outliers have to accept the fact that because they're the minority, they're going to get treated just like everyone else.

tammymacb
04-09-2008, 07:20 AM
Now my feelings have been hurt :thumbsup2 I really hope you don't leave us and head to the Budget board. Not saying they're not great people too, but we do have a ton of good info to share here.


This is actually now a nice, pleasant thread. I'm sorry if there are those who don't particularly love the things that people are saying, but facts are facts.


Again, I'm really sorry you feel this way. I have seen posters stating facts, in a calm, conversational way. I think that issue is that there are some posters who are used to the 'tone' of other boards. This board is very matter of fact. And believe me, I have seen them 'fanning the flames' here....there is no flame fanning going on on this thread! This board is just not a huggy, lovey dovey board. So...as long as everyone remains as they are now, we're good to go.

OK, I'm sorry. Must have understood again. :confused3

Please explain to me ( as I ask in my most calm and conversational way :rolleyes: ) how stating other posters on this board are cheap and unloyal, how showing off ones frequent flyer miles, and how patting each other on the back with " I told you so's" is in anyway matter of fact. The tone of the "regulars" on this thread is obviously tolerated by the mods and the folks who call them out and quote them are the problem?

I can see why this would not be a popular board.

Michael623
04-09-2008, 07:50 AM
If you think this board is a little tough I would suggest never stumbling over to the rumor board. I personally booked a flight on Skybus in August just to see what this crazy sounding airline was all about. Plus to be able to say I flew for $10. I thought it was funny that they went out of business more than I was angry. I called my CC company for my refund and they said I would be credited in 2 business days. Oh well, life goes on. What the heck was I going to do in Greensboro anyway? ;)

goofy4tink
04-09-2008, 07:57 AM
Nice pleasant thread I think not.. I think as a mod you should support all people in your forum.. I sent you a PM
I support all the posters in this forum...as long as they adhere to DIS guidelines. I got the PM...and responded.

[/B]

OK, I'm sorry. Must have understood again. :confused3

Please explain to me ( as I ask in my most calm and conversational way :rolleyes: ) how stating other posters on this board are cheap and unloyal, how showing off ones frequent flyer miles, and how patting each other on the back with " I told you so's" is in anyway matter of fact. The tone of the "regulars" on this thread is obviously tolerated by the mods and the folks who call them out and quote them are the problem?

I can see why this would not be a popular board.
I've read this thread over and over.....I haven't seen anyone called either cheap or unloyal. I have seen frequent travelers sharing their experiences with those who travel less often. I have read that airlines reward those who are loyal to their airlines with certain perks, but it is the frequent traveler again, who would be considered to be loyal. Not someone like me who flys 2-3 times a year albeit on the same airline. No one was called cheap...yes, there was talk of 'cheap fares' but not cheap people. That is not the same thing.

People...if someone has a particular post that they feel is insulting or demeaning, please let me know. You can either PM me with the link to the post or just report it to the board mods in general.
I, as well as the other mods here, want this board to be a welcoming one, that treats all posters as valued members of the DIS community. No one, not one single poster here, gets preferrential treatment. Not ever!

design_mom
04-09-2008, 08:04 AM
I'll come right out and say it. I am not loyal to any airline. But, having said that, price is not the *only* consideration.

I only fly a couple times per year, usually for leisure. (I've taken 3 business trips in the last 10 years.) Even if I took all my flights on one airline, I wouldn't have nearly enough miles to qualify for any sort of perks. Frequent flyer miles mean nothing to me.

Price is important to me, but it's not the *only* consideration. I'd pay more for a direct flight (although they often end up cheaper anyway.) I'd pay more for a decent flight time that didn't interrupt bedtime or naptime -- or, if traveling alone, gets me home in time to tuck the kids in at night. And I do remember who was nice to me and who was not. (Although Southwest doesn't have all the perks that some other airlines do, they've always treated me respectfully. I can't say that about US Air. I will probably never fly them again.)

I never tried Skybus (I heard a couple of things that made me leery), but they did offer direct flights to locations that I wanted to visit. Their Punta Gorda, FL airport was closer to my parents' place than the Tampa airport, where we usually fly into. They offered a direct Columbus-Milwaukee flight. We have friends in Milwaukee.

Although it seems like there are a lot of "road warriors" out there, Bicker is right. There are a lot more of us who fly for our WDW vacations and that's about it.

dvcnewgirl
04-09-2008, 08:05 AM
I support all the posters in this forum...as long as they adhere to DIS guidelines. I got the PM...and responded.



Thanks for responding, I am unsubscribing to this thread because it the OP was trying to share knowledge and help people, the need for this thread has come to and end for me. I have gotten a lot and info and tips on the transportation board so I am thankful for that. I just think that people can share facts with a nicer tone and they are still facts. :grouphug: Yes I am one that believes in pixiedust: . So this is not the place for me.:upsidedow

travelin' tigger
04-09-2008, 08:10 AM
Maybe because I live near Boston and have seen many airlines enter and leave our "end point" market, I can't get too worked up over Skybus becoming Skybust. We've had Allegiant try and fail in Worcester, Pan AM fail twice at Pease, Eastern go poof, USAir cut most of the former Piedmont flights after acquisition, Delta forget that it's legacy here (Northeast Airlines merger) is as a Florida carrier, etc.

It's great while it lasts and I took advantage of Skybus to fly a daughter who goes to college near Greensboro back and forth for $50 to $60 each way on average.

I'm a loyal flyer like some of you who posted on this thread (2 million miler on Delta, 1 million miler on United), but also realize you don't get the perks you used to on the legacy carriers. Regional jets have greatly reduced the upgrade chances on the shorter flights and the fees on the supposedly "free" travel perks have been creeping in.

As CarolA said and I paraphrase - rich and poor people can be cheap when it comes to flying. I'm definitely cheap, but also realize you can't get something for nothing for long without changes happening that you may not like :cloud9:
I'd always fly SW out of PVD until Skybus came into the picture. Sure, I was motivated by the "cheap" fares and was willing to take a gamble with them. Well, it got me 2 cheap flights to FL - the 3 booked for the summer were worth the chance and I lost as far as the trips go, but got a refund from my cc company. Now I'm back flying SW - a little more money, but I'll still get to FL!!

After listening to WBZ Newsradio on Sat., the spokesperson for Pease said they were trying to get another carrier to fly in and out of Portsmouth - I hope they can!!!

travelin' tigger
04-09-2008, 08:14 AM
No one, not one single poster here, gets preferrential treatment. Not ever!
Diane - that statement doesn't include me, right??? :lmao:

goofy4tink
04-09-2008, 08:19 AM
Diane - that statement doesn't include me, right??? :lmao:

Wellll, actually, I had you in mind specifically when I posted that :rotfl2: Nope, no one is exempt from my 'wrath'. Well, maybe TLinden, but that's about it.;)

tammymacb
04-09-2008, 08:55 AM
I support all the posters in this forum...as long as they adhere to DIS guidelines. I got the PM...and responded.


I've read this thread over and over.....I haven't seen anyone called either cheap or unloyal. I have seen frequent travelers sharing their experiences with those who travel less often. I have read that airlines reward those who are loyal to their airlines with certain perks, but it is the frequent traveler again, who would be considered to be loyal. Not someone like me who flys 2-3 times a year albeit on the same airline. No one was called cheap...yes, there was talk of 'cheap fares' but not cheap people. That is not the same thing.





Personally I am AMAZED that any airline is giving you the $50 standby fares. The folks flying Skybus tend to be the "cheapest" at all time flyers. So I don't see the airlines getting any return loyal customers from this. Next time someone shows up with"too good to be true" fares these customers are GONE LOL!


That's all I have to say about that.

BTW- if this thread was soley for "facts" it was posted to warn future travelers to avoid Skybus as they appeared to be about to fold. Well they folded. Seems like this factual thread is now unnecessary. ( Again IMHO )

goofy4tink
04-09-2008, 09:11 AM
That's all I have to say about that.

BTW- if this thread was soley for "facts" it was posted to warn future travelers to avoid Skybus as they appeared to be about to fold. Well they folded. Seems like this factual thread is now unnecessary. ( Again IMHO )

Well then, I stand corrected. Sorry about that. Perhaps 'most frugal' would have been a better choice of words.

bavaria
04-09-2008, 10:27 AM
BTW- if this thread was soley for "facts" it was posted to warn future travelers to avoid Skybus as they appeared to be about to fold. Well they folded. Seems like this factual thread is now unnecessary. ( Again IMHO )

Again, this thread may serve to help those who are concerned about another US based carrier going out of business in the next months. FOUR went out of business in one week alone, and it will happen to another. Readers want and need to know what will happen if that occurs.

Yet again I went back and read the thread, and the only unpleasantness I saw was apparently deleted by a moderator (or so it would seem from the edit fields)

As bicker and a few others of us said, it would be doing a disservice to readers to only say that 'things will be ok'. They WON'T be ok for many readers, and for many travellers holding tickets on other airlines in danger of going out of business.

Personally, I think that both our esteemed moderator and at least one of the frequent travellers here deserves an apology on this thread, but I know that it just me looking for pixie dust now.

Goofy4tink, thank you to you and the other Transportation Board moderators for acting in a consistent and fair manner over the years.

CarolA
04-09-2008, 10:49 AM
What has me sitting here laughing...

The posters who keep saying that the budget board is "nicer"

OH MY! Right now there is a woman on there very upset that posters on the budget board though that taking Greyhound was too cheap.

And if you want to get flamed... go to the budget board and post "I have an ARM" or "I have credit card debt" Folks come out of the woodwork to trash those poor posters. Plus there is always at least one thread going where someone is trashing someone they saw on TV, a family member, a friend etc for thier "poor money management" And that's nice and loving? WOW!

goofy4tink
04-09-2008, 10:55 AM
bavaria...you, and the rest of our posters, are most welcome. We mods try our best...sometimes we can't please everyone. Carry on!

debster812
04-09-2008, 12:12 PM
I'm going to weigh in here, and Diane can tell me hush if she wants.

I would classify myself as a fairly savvy, leisuretraveller. I probably only fly 3 or 4 times a year. Not enough to gain any real 'perks', but I'm slowly, slowly building up those miles.

I think we are very very very lucky to have some very experienced, high milage travellers here, who share their advice and experience. I have learned a TON from the likes of bavaria, CarolA, and others. I've passed that knowledge on to my 10 year old son, and he is at the point now, where he is able to get himself through airport security, on his own pretty much, better than some adults I've seen. Of course part of that is due to all the 'extra security' he's had, courtesy of the TSA, but that's another story, for another time. ;)

I'm sorry that some posters had their feelings hurt, I really am, and I really don't mean this as an 'I told you so', even though it will probably be interpreted as such. For months and months, when people asked about Skybus, there would be the fans, saying, 'great, go for it, it will be fine', and then there would be posters, like myself, basically saying 'caveat emptor'. If ANY delays or cancellations occurred due to weather, mechanical, or bankruptcy, you'd be pretty much hosed. In the past two years, flying on Delta, I was delayed about 4 days total, on 2 separate trips due to snow in the Northeast. This was on a legacy carrier, with presumably, the resources to deal with this stuff.

I hope no one really does leave and stay away, because there is a TON of good, real world, information here, that is very helpful to all of us.

bicker
04-09-2008, 12:17 PM
If you think this board is a little tough I would suggest never stumbling over to the rumor board.Agreed!

bicker
04-09-2008, 12:25 PM
What has me sitting here laughing... The posters who keep saying that the budget board is "nicer" Without getting into an "us versus them" thing, I have found that the Budget forum typically has a rosier "the consumer is always right" attitude, perhaps to the detriment of some of its readers, than the Transportation forum has, perhaps to the benefit of some of its readers. To be fair, some people will equate unfounded consumer advocacy with being "nice" and will equate a more realistic perspective with being not a "nice".

And if you want to get flamed... go to the budget board and post "I have an ARM" or "I have credit card debt" Folks come out of the woodwork to trash those poor posters. Gosh, I must have missed those threads. Those are rather distinctly realistic views, the kind I wouldn't expect to see on the Budget forum. I clearly haven't read enough messages on that forum.

CarolA
04-09-2008, 01:39 PM
I think one thing that I always try to remember when on a message board is that PERCEPTION is the key issue and that's driven a LOT by your attidude. That's the only thing you can control.

I don't really get upset at things said about me or to me on these boards. I have occasionally gotten upset and I realize that the only thing that accomplished was getting me upset.... SO... it's probably not worth it IMHO!

I think that even a simple sentence can be misread. You are using only one of the communication skills on here and it's very easy to misinterpret or to "shoot the messenger" I remember being told that I am a "Disney Problem Guest" and why? I posted on the DIS that I thought getting a room at CSR without power was not acceptable. (Truly the manager asked me if I could live with the room for one night. Now it's July in Florida and my room has no lights or A/C. What would you say? When I posted that I said NO, I was flamed by some posters on the DIS for being too demanding of the management! LOL!!!) That really bought it home for me.

As I look back at my original post, I am standing by it. I am amazed that the airlines are making the goodwill offer they are. None of them are actually making much money right now so to give away flights for free or $50 is very generous of them. This is NOT an industry that's known for that. (They have taken away a lot of the generous things they used to do like breavement fares etc. They have cut back on the perks they are giving Frequent Flyers and they keep nickle and diming us. Giving something away is the "anti-trend" right now in the industry) Lewis and others have pointed out the "PR" aspect which I did not consider when I first saw the offer which probably explains it.

I fail to see why being amazed was seen as such a BAD emotion. But.... as I said it's all in your perception.

MrMarv
04-09-2008, 05:02 PM
CarolA---Anyone who flamed you for requesting another room because your room had no A/C or lighting is out of their minds; weather in Florida in July is downright brutal, and I'd hope that you'd never stay in such an ineptly managed and maintained hostelry ever again.

If a hotel can't take care of such fundamentals, they ought to close their doors for keeps.

I also have to acknowledge the superb contributions to this board of CarolA, bicker & bavaria; they all spend a heck of a lot more time on the road than I do, and their wisdom should be unabashedly cherished & appreciated by everyone who browses this message board.

Finally, to ''goofy4tink' (aka 'Diane The Magnificent')---thanks for your vigilance!!!

kaytieeldr
04-09-2008, 08:04 PM
And, with respect, I don't believe it. If another airline came to town, undercutting JetBlue's prices, and providing the same level of service, I think it as likely as not that most of JetBlue's professed "loyal" customers would jump ship. I don't doubt that. In fact, I'm still wavering between "my" JetBlue and Delta for my return trip... ONLY because Delta leaves forty-five minutes later, giving me more tim... wait. It IS only 45 minutes! I don't know why I thought an hour and a half! Okay, yep, I'm 100% loyal to JetBlue - to the point that, for the foreseeable future, I don't intend to travel anywhere they don't fly from Boston.

uva185
04-10-2008, 01:58 AM
That's why I said "practically no one", Robert.

And how many passengers are like you, Robert? Not bloody many.

Actually there are a lot more than you would think. Especially if you include anyone with any elite status. Maybe not many people fly 200k miles per year but A LOT of people fly only 1 carrier per year (if not one carrier at least one alliance). Just watch how many people preboard on Monday or Friday flights. I have seen 80% of the plane have status.

Free trips aside loyalty gets me lots of free upgrades (95% of all my flights), bonus miles, shorter lines, free same day changes, extra baggage allowance, and special unwritten perks such as getting the airline to reopen up the plane when I was late.

My miles are getting me a free trip around the world for two visiting Japan, Singapore, South Arfrica, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Egypt, Switzerland, and Germany including travel on the new Singapore Airlines Airbus 380 in this seat (http://yesterdayssalad.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/071025-a380-suites-02.jpg). Anymore questions on loyalty??

bicker
04-10-2008, 04:09 AM
Actually there are a lot more than you would think. Especially if you include anyone with any elite status.Which, going back to what I've been saying all along, is not many people at all.

Exercise for the reader:
How many people were left stranded by Skybus?
How many of them flew more than 50,000 miles in the last year on Skybus?

uva185
04-10-2008, 04:46 AM
Which, going back to what I've been saying all along, is not many people at all.

Exercise for the reader:
How many people were left stranded by Skybus?
How many of them flew more than 50,000 miles in the last year on Skybus?

I must have missed an earlier post somewhere. I agree, I seriously doubt there were any flyers truly loyal to Skybus(t), only their prices.

All I was saying is there are more people than you think that are loyal to airlines in general. I was not referencing Skybus(t) flyers.

bicker
04-10-2008, 04:55 AM
I think you did miss some earlier messages. I believe I mentioned earlier that I was elite on a few airlines at a time back in the late 1990s. I know all about elite frequent fliers. My point was that there aren't many of them.