Beyond Frustration - What will doc say?

[lilsweetpea]

I have been trying to lose weight for just over 6 months now. The first 10 pounds took 3 months to come off. I have been at a standstill ever since. I am doing Weight Watchers, and I follow the program very well. I don't think I can eat any better than I am right now. I gain .2; I lose .4; I gain .6, I lose .2. Last week, I tried something different and ate fish for 4 meals out of the week. I lost 2.6 pounds! Great right? Well I thought so, but this week I gained 5.2! What!!!! How does this happen? I ate fish 3 times this week and I ate my normal healthy meals all week. I hit all of my guidelines, but I am at a loss for what to do and soooo upset! :sad:

I have schedule a doctor's appointment to see what happens if I get some bloodwork done. Any suggestions on what to test for? What should I ask?

I'm nervous... please help.

[Dizneydawn]

Hi...I know a lot of people who are gaining/not losing on WW because they are active people and actually not eating enough calories because the body is hording the calories it is getting because it is malnourished.

I have no idea what you weigh or what you do throughout the wek but I challenge you to sign on for FitDay (www.fitday.com) it is free and browse around...watch what you are supposed to eat for a week (the amount of calories it suggests) and see if that does not help.
There is the lifestyle calore intake...that is the amount of calories just to exist you should consume at your weight and your level of movement for your job etc...

Then there is the basel caloric intake..which is what you should eat with the amount of excersize you do daily....

You should stay somewhere between the 2 always and then...add more excersize is the way then to lose more weight because you are burning the weight off...not starving your body...

The more you weigh...the more you should be eating...even to lose weight...your body is not 130 pounds so eating enough for a 130 pound woman does not mean anything...it's like driving a big rig and saying...well I wish I had a compact car...and only giving the big rig the amount of fuel that a compact would need.....great in theory but how far would it go down the road before running on empty???

You also should be drinking 1/2 your body weight in ounces...like if I weigh 200 pounds...that is 100 oz of water....64 oz is only going to flush out the weight for a person at 130 pounds..if you weigh more than that...you need more flushing because you have a larger body for the water to get through.

I am no expert but these are and have been helpfull to me.

If ya want a great place of support....give our support group a try.....we are wacky and fun and spread the spectrum in weight board....
The thread has a yield sign and says..
"In Search Of the Body...not the one I ate...":lovestruc

[lilsweetpea]

Hi...I know a lot of people who are gaining/not losing on WW because they are active people and actually not eating enough calories because the body is hording the calories it is getting because it is malnourished.

You also should be drinking 1/2 your body weight in ounces...like if I weigh 200 pounds...that is 100 oz of water....64 oz is only going to flush out the weight for a person at 130 pounds..if you weigh more than that...you need more flushing because you have a larger body for the water to get through.



I am beginning to wonder about the calories. I average about 1300 - 1450 calories per day. Sometimes higher and sometimes lower. This past week I noticed that by eating Salmon, I ate around 1600 calories on those days. That still doesn't account for a 5 pound gain.

I've seen varying ideas on how many calories I should be eating. Some as low as 1200 calories and some as high as 2200 calories. How should I know what is right?

I am 26 years old, 5'7" and I weigh 172 pounds. I feel good overall, and I exercise 3-4 times a week both strenth training and cardio. I drink between 8 and 10 glasses of water each day. I try to get at least 2 cups of milk a day. I eat 5-6 servings of fruits and vegetables.

Sometimes I just want to scream! :mad:

[Dizneydawn]

I am beginning to wonder about the calories. I average about 1300 - 1450 calories per day. Sometimes higher and sometimes lower. This past week I noticed that by eating Salmon, I ate around 1600 calories on those days. That still doesn't account for a 5 pound gain.

I've seen varying ideas on how many calories I should be eating. Some as low as 1200 calories and some as high as 2200 calories. How should I know what is right?

I am 26 years old, 5'7" and I weigh 172 pounds. I feel good overall, and I exercise 3-4 times a week both strenth training and cardio. I drink between 8 and 10 glasses of water each day. I try to get at least 2 cups of milk a day. I eat 5-6 servings of fruits and vegetables.

Sometimes I just want to scream! :mad:

Hi....pm me your number and I will walk you through Fit Day if you need help or go there and see if you can figure it out....once you put in your weight and excersize info...it will shoot ya out a number...:hug:

[lilsweetpea]

My calories eaten versus calories burned is at a severe deficit.

Calories eaten = 1450 (at the high end) per day
Calories burned = 2300 per day.

Basal = 1625
Lifestyle = 731

What do you make of that?

[Dizneydawn]

My calories eaten versus calories burned is at a severe deficit.

Calories eaten = 1450 (at the high end) per day
Calories burned = 2300 per day.

Basal = 1625
Lifestyle = 731

What do you make of that?

Hi..okay obviously I need terms in front of me..:rotfl:
Basal again is the bare bones of what you need to just survive if you never left the couch...
Lifestyle is what you burn with the amount of daily activity you have for your work and lifestyle...
If you add excersize...it will add more Lifestyle calories...

So you can never go below the Basal of 1625 calories a day....that is bare bones...
Add the 2 Basal and Lifestyle together and you have 2356 total you should never go higher than....Stay between the 2 somewhere and you should see a huge difference...closer to the combo of 2356 ..I would go about 1800-2100 as a starting point...that gives you flexibility in calories plus room for a splurge day and a little lattitude in what you eat.

I really believe that you are starving yourself...hope this helps...keep me updated...

[3DisneyKids]

Welcome to my world! I am one of the ones Dawn mentioned above. I have been doing WW and did not see a loss for FIVE WEEKS...and like you, I am doing absolutely everything right. When it comes to working out, I run 20 miles/week (yes, you read that right...I run 4-5 miles per day 5x/week) plus I strength train.

I completely understand your frustration. I can't tell you how much I want to scream, hit, freak out...everyone I know is sick to death of hearing about my plateau.

Finally, this week I had some success and dropped 2.4 pounds. While I am thrilled, I am scared of exactly what happened to you...will this come back next week?

Here is what I did differently this week....I got rid of the refined sugar in my diet. While I was definitely staying within my points range, I was using points on those 2 and 3 point desserts (which are loaded with sugar). I eliminated those and replaced them with more protein and apples for good carbs.

Have you tried the Wendie plan? It is a way of using your flex points and it is designed to break through a plateau. If you do not have it, just let me know and I will post it here.

Finally, I found--as Dawn said--that I was not eating enough calories for my level of fitness. As soon as I relaxed a bit and started using my Activity Points and Flex Points, I dropped weight. But again, let's see what happens next week.

Keep reading and posting. At your age, I would think any thyroid issues are unlikely, but that is what your doc may check in terms of bloodwork. If your insurance covers it, I would also request a referral to a nutritionist. Good luck!

[lilsweetpea]

DisneyDawn, Thanks for taking a look at everything for me! I was thinking I was really low on calories too, but now I am so afraid to eat more. Is that weird?! Should I expect to gain before I lose since my metabolism seems all freaked out?

3DisneyKids, what is the WENDIE plan? I have been on FLEX but I am trying to stick to CORE foods. I rarely eat bread that isn't whole grain or dessert. Only once in a while, do I have a piece of chocolate. I think my biggest splurge right now is peanut butter with my banana, and I am seriously contemplating cuttting that. :-(

[Tiger Lily 03]

One more thing to add to your mix. Can you break up your meals so you are eating more often, just not more. (I don't mean you should eat less than your basal amount either. It is important to get enoug fuel and not let you body think it is starving.) I understand that this is not always easy, but if you can try that whenever you are able, you may find this will help too.

fitday or sparkpeople .com is a great way to determine if you are getting the nutrients you need as well as the calories. It is all about calories in must be less than calories out in order to lose, but I think we want mostly healthy choices so the good body won't be hoarding things on us.

I'm interested in what it is you find that works. Many of us deal with exactly what you have going on.

[3DisneyKids]

3DisneyKids, what is the WENDIE plan? I have been on FLEX but I am trying to stick to CORE foods. I rarely eat bread that isn't whole grain or dessert. Only once in a while, do I have a piece of chocolate. I think my biggest splurge right now is peanut butter with my banana, and I am seriously contemplating cuttting that. :-(

The Wendie plan is part of WW and it is designed so that you do not eat the same amount every day (and therefore your body adjusts to that amount of food). This is supposed to shake your body up a bit...and in so doing, the weight will begin to drop. Here is the plan:

Day 1: Eat daily target points + 5 weekly points
Day 2: Eat daily target points + 1 weekly point
Day 3: Eat daily target points + 15 weekly points
Day 4: Eat daily target points
Day 5: Eat daily target points + 4 weekly points
Day 6: Eat daily target points + 2 weekly points
Day 7: Eat daily target points

[lilsweetpea]

Tigerlily, I already eat 5 small meals a day. I eat a small breakfast, small snack, small lunch, small snack, and dinner. I go to the gym right after work, so I eat dinner around 7:30. That makes little room for an additional meal. My snacks typically involve raw veggies with stick cheese, a piece of fruit, sugar free pudding, yogurt, etc.

3DisneyKids, Thanks for the Wendie plan. I have also heard you should vary your calorie intake daily to shake up your metabolism. Like eat 1600 on day and 1200 another. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Raenstoirm]

If none of the suggestions work, I would trying seeing a nutritionist. You may have some sort of imbalance or deficiency. I am protein deficient, so if I don't have enough, I feel it physically and the scale shows negatively. Until I started seeing the nutritionist, I never knew.
Besides blood work, they stick this thing in your mouth that tests your breath for issues and gets our "official" resting calorie burn.

[eeyore65]

I had the same problem and went for routine blood work. It turns out I have insulin resistance. They can treat this with meds and I am told I will drop weight like crazy when I start them, next week. Meanwhile she has me on the South Beach diet as my body can not process carbs correctly. Even the "good" ones immediately get turned into fat on me by my pancreas, especially if I eat them at night. One week of this and I lost 6 lbs.

I would encourage anyone that is struggling to go get a basic blood and urine test from your doc. It can also be thyroid.

I will report back when I start the meds.

[pjlla]

I need to chime in on this subject. I am also doing WW (again:rolleyes: ) and I have been RELIGIoUS about my points and exercise since 1/2/08. I'm trying to lose 30 pounds before April 16. I've never tried to lose this much weight this quickly, so I have been eating very low on my points (usually about 20 pts, sometimes 22). My daily Target is about 24 and I have only eaten that amount maybe twice since Jan. 2. I NEVER eat my Flex points or Activity points. The weight came off well at first, but last week and the week before were a big disappointment. I KNEW I probably should be eating more, but I was afraid to.... especially since my first mini-goal date is coming up quickly! But I ate much closer to my daily points this whole week (22-24 pts each day), drank my water faithfully (about 74 oz a day, sometimes more), and exercised at least 30 minutes every day (just cardio for now)... and I finally had a good loss today! I was down 2.1 lbs. I am now less than 5 pounds away from my April 16 goal weight, so I am feeling very encouraged.

Next week I am going to be combining Wendi's plan, along with eating AT LEAST my Target points every day. I tried the Wendi's plan a few weeks ago, but probably ate too little (only 13 points on my low day) and it was not terribly effective.

My advise would be to eat AT LEAST your Points Target every day, drink your water, eliminate as many artificial sweeteners as possible, plenty of whole grains, fruits, and veggies, one serving of EVOO or such every day, and at least 30 minutes of exercise 3 days. Try that (maybe combined with the Wendi's plan) for one week and see how it goes.

Remember to WEIGH your foods, MEASURE your foods, and WRITE your foods. It is so easy to "overestimate" if you are not weighing and/or measuring your portions. I think that you will find that most WW success stories will tell you that they still weigh and measure frequently. Write it as you eat it. It is TOO easy to forget that quick snack you ate two hours ago, if you try to do all of your journaling at the end of the day.


I know I'm not saying anything innovative or new, but hopefully this will help. Good luck and report back later and let us know how it is going. If you need meal ideas or recipes, let me know. I'll share what I can! Oh, and avoid those Easter Peeps and bunnies!.....................P

[Dr Pepsi]

Do you weigh and measure you food (although weighing is more accurate).

I had some trouble in the begining because I'd eat "X" servings of "Y", but my serving sizes were weigh off. For example, I'd think I was eating 1/2 cup of something and when I actually measured (instead of eyeballing it), I'd find that it was closer to a cup.

Having been overweight for several years, my idea of what made up a "serving" or "portion" was skewed.

[lilsweetpea]

Thanks for all the responses. You are all making me feel better; at least I know I'm not alone!

I do measure my food, however I think I am going to start weighing to get a closer eye on some of the items.

I am anxious to get my bloodwork done to see if that shows anything. I am also contemplating getting a referral for a nutritionist. I want to see if my insurance covers it.

[MelanieC]

Hang in there - definately not eating enough can all but STOP your losing.

And if you add exercise in - you really need to add to keep losing.

When I'm doing WW, I really try to eat all my flex points each week and definately mixing up the number of points you eat each day helps. I try to have some low days - where I eat my target only and then days where I add my flex. I try to have a larger day each week. It really keeps your body guessing.

[ecr110]

I can definitely relate to this. I was on WW for two years (up until January of this year). Lost the first 30 pounds easily and had about 5-10 pounds to go when I started regaining the weight back. I couldn't figure it out as I was following the flex plan and the 8 healthy guidelines and training for the Disney marathon. I was also constantly tired, and headachey, nauseous- all that stuff. While on WW, I asked my leader constantly what was wrong and she couldn't pinpoint anything- I tried every variation of the plan and the Core plan but nothing was working. At one point, I was running 30-40 miles a week and following the plan religiously.
Went to my doctor who did a complete blood work up, with a glucose fasting test. Turns out that I am hypoglycemic and that my long training runs were making me sick. I went to a nutrionist to figure out what was going on.

Long story short, we factored in the amount of exercise I do with the amount of calories allotted on WW and I was averaging 1100-1300 calories a day- which is not enough for someone of my activity level. On the days I felt like I was eating everything in sight, I was averaged 1500 calories (I have about 6 months of journals for my nutrionist to look at). Plus I wasn't consuming enough protein so my body was actually cannabalizing my muscle to help fuel my runs, which was then causing me to regain weight as fat, not muscle. If you're a heavy exerciser, WW is not going to work. Since I've been working with her, I've lost 5% of body fat and 10 pounds, which is more than I lost with WW in a year.

[polyforme]

Just wanted to give some words of encouragement and advice since I have been in the same situation and here is what worked for me. A year ago I was at an all time high in my weight. My husband runs fitness camps so it was embarrasing for me to be so heavy not to mention I felt lousy. My husband got me started on the zone diet and a very simple but effective exercise routine that takes me about a 1/2 hour that I can do in our playroom while my 3 kids either play or workout with me. In
1 and1/2 months I had lost 33 pounds- and for the past year I have easily maintained my weight within a 2-3 pounds. A couple of weeks ago I decided it was time to go down a little bit more and I went back to strictly zone and have lost an additional 7 pounds and am almost at my target weight of 132. You can go online to find out more about the zone but it is really just eating the best foods for you unlike weight watchers were you can eat a brownie but then have to suffer because you went over on points so you either skip a meal or don't eat much the next meal. Once you know how to eat the right proportions of fat, carbs and protien with every meal then ( and I do weigh some of my foods) then it becomes easy. In response to the bloodwork- I have Grave's Disease which is a malfunction of the thyroid and when I am on the hypo end of it I know one symptom is trouble loosing weight so maybe you can ask to be tested for thyroid problems.
By the way the workouts I do are the crossfit modo found at crossfit.com
All based on functional movement. Sorry to go on and on but I am very passionate about it since it has changed my life for the better in so many ways. Hope this helps.
Kathy

[MainStMandy]

Based on your height and weight I would suggest you only be on 1200 calories...anything too much higher will just make you maintain your current weight or if you go too high then you will gain. Just my .02 :)

[JudyS]

I find it very hard to lose weight. I lost 12 pounds on Flex, then followed Flex for 5 more weeks and lost nothing. I weigh my food, so that isn't the problem. (I have a great dietary scale that will even calculate calories and such.) I actually gained weight on Core.

I have since managed to find a plan that is working for me. I have a long thread a number of pages back about the various things I did to lose weight, but the executive summary is: 1) I went on Byetta (this is a drug for diabetics only, so it probably doesn't apply in your case); 2) I started taking 25 mg ephedrine a day, plus green tea; 3) I switched to a low-carb diet; 4) I started exercising an hour a day, using a heart rate monitor to make sure my exercise was intense enough (I go for a heart rate of 106 or above, and try to hit a heart rate of 150 several times a week.) I also take garcinia, calcium citrate, and arginine. Doing all this has allowed me to drop almost 40 pounds.

I see that some people here are saying that you must be eating too little, while others are saying that you must be eating too much. I ran into that a lot, too. I firmly believe that many people have metabolic problems that are keeping them fat; it isn't all just about diet and exercise. So, don't assume that you are doing something "wrong."

As for what your doctor will say -- he (or she) should be able to offer you an explanation for why the weight won't come off, but probably won't be able to!

I hope you find a plan that works for you!

:wish35

[lilsweetpea]

I find it very hard to lose weight. I lost 12 pounds on Flex, then followed Flex for 5 more weeks and lost nothing. I weigh my food, so that isn't the problem. (I have a great dietary scale that will even calculate calories and such.) I actually gained weight on Core.

I have since managed to find a plan that is working for me. I have a long thread a number of pages back about the various things I did to lose weight, but the executive summary is: 1) I went on Byetta (this is a drug for diabetics only, so it probably doesn't apply in your case); 2) I started taking 25 mg ephedrine a day, plus green tea; 3) I switched to a low-carb diet; 4) I started exercising an hour a day, using a heart rate monitor to make sure my exercise was intense enough (I go for a heart rate of 106 or above, and try to hit a heart rate of 150 several times a week.) I also take garcinia, calcium citrate, and arginine. Doing all this has allowed me to drop almost 40 pounds.

I see that some people here are saying that you must be eating too little, while others are saying that you must be eating too much. I ran into that a lot, too. I firmly believe that many people have metabolic problems that are keeping them fat; it isn't all just about diet and exercise. So, don't assume that you are doing something "wrong."

As for what your doctor will say -- he (or she) should be able to offer you an explanation for why the weight won't come off, but probably won't be able to!

I hope you find a plan that works for you!

:wish35


Did a doctor suggest the various supplements you are taking?


I went to the doctor today. For now my physical was good. I got a bunch of bloodwork including CBC w/DIFF, TSH, and Lipids. I think that is it. She said we would be able to tell a lot from the bloodwork. So within 2 weeks, I hope to know the results as well as have a plan for my weight loss. Until then, I am going to continue to eat well and exercise.

[JudyS]

Did a doctor suggest the various supplements you are taking?....The calcium is the only supplement that was suggested by a doctor. I have told my primary care physician about the other supplements, and she was worried that the ephedrine might not be safe, but she said she "understood why I would want to take it." The Byetta is prescription only, but it is something I had to ask my endocrinologist for; he didn't think it would really help me. (As it turns out, it has helped tremendously with keeping my blood sugar stable.)

Unfortunately, I have not found doctors to be helpful at all with my weight problem. All they do is say that I must be eating too much. (They can't really say I'm exercising too little, since I do an hour a day.) When I say that I can't bear how cold and hungry I get when I eat less without taking the ephedrine & other supplements, they have no suggestions for me. I would really prefer to have a doctor who is knowledgeable about the ephedrine and other supplements and willing to advise me on them, but I haven't found one.

:wish35

[lilsweetpea]

Has anyone met with a nutritionist/dietician?

[goofyisinphilly]

Make sure they check thyroid levels in blood work and that they are read by the new guidelines. I had a hypothyroidism for 2 years before I was actually put on meds. My drs weren't up on the new lower guidelines. It made me mad to know that I felt horrible and gained weight for 2 years b/c they weren't up on the current research.

If you are doing WW, make sure you eat enough. It is too easy to feel good about being below your points when all you are really doing to starving your body.

[JudyS]

Make sure they check thyroid levels in blood work and that they are read by the new guidelines. I had a hypothyroidism for 2 years before I was actually put on meds. My drs weren't up on the new lower guidelines. It made me mad to know that I felt horrible and gained weight for 2 years b/c they weren't up on the current research. ...Good point! In terms of what the doctors should look for in your blood work, Lilsweetpea, thyroid stimulating hormone (or a full thyorid panel if you can afford it) is often the first thing doctors check if you can't lose weight. Low thyroid levels can be treated by taking thyroid pills. In some cases, high thyroid leevls can also cause weight gain.

Abnormally high cortisol levels (which are often tested by a 24-hour urine catch, rather than blood work) are another thing that should be checked, although probably only if the thyroid levels are normal -- cortisol abnormalities are much rarer than thyroid abnormalities. The treatment for high cortisol levels depends on the cause.

Also, another thing the doctors should probably check for is insulin resistance, which causes blood sugar & insulin levels to be high. Pretty much all overweight people should have a fasting blood sugar test done for diabetes / pre-diabetes. If that is normal, a basal insulin test might also be a good idea, especially if you are carrying a lot of weight in your abdomen or if you have darkened or thickened/velvety skin at the back of your neck or in areas where you skin makes folds (such in your underarms or behind the knees.) These symptoms indicate high insulin levels and insulin resistance.

Insulin resistance is often accompanied by high androgen (male hormone) levels. In women, this constellation indicates PCOS (polycystic ovary syndrome.) Women with PCOS typically have irregular periods; they often also have acne and/or excess hair. If you have any of these symptoms, you should have your androgen levels checked.

A lot of people with insulin resistance find that they need low carb diets, so that is something to consider if you turn out to have insulin resistance. (Both WW Flex and WW Core tend to be quite high in carbs; I go to WW meetings, but neither of their diets works for me.) Other treatments for insulin resistance include Metformin, Byetta, and lots of exercise.

If you are on any medications, you should discuss them with your doctor. Many medications cause weight gain.

I've spoken to either five or six dieticians (I can't recall which), and have never found them to be of any help. Every dietician I have spoken too really pushed a low-fat/high-carb diet, even though the endocrinologists I've seen in the past five years all have told me to limit my carbs because of my diabetes. But, I've already tried all sorts of diets in the past 25 years, from very low fat to low carb, and I am very careful about weighing/measuring food and looking up nutrition content, so maybe I'm not typical and other people get more out of seeing dieticians.

[lilsweetpea]

Good point! In terms of what the doctors should look for in your blood work, Lilsweetpea, thyroid stimulating hormone (or a full thyorid panel if you can afford it) is often the first thing doctors check if you can't lose weight. Low thyroid levels can be treated by taking thyroid pills. In some cases, high thyroid leevls can also cause weight gain.

Abnormally high cortisol levels (which are often tested by a 24-hour urine catch, rather than blood work) are another thing that should be checked, although probably only if the thyroid levels are normal -- cortisol abnormalities are much rarer than thyroid abnormalities. The treatment for high cortisol levels depends on the cause.

Also, another thing the doctors should probably check for is insulin resistance, which causes blood sugar & insulin levels to be high. Pretty much all overweight people should have a fasting blood sugar test done for diabetes / pre-diabetes. If that is normal, a basal insulin test might also be a good idea, especially if you are carrying a lot of weight in your abdomen or if you have darkened or thickened/velvety skin at the back of your neck or in areas where you skin makes folds (such in your underarms or behind the knees.) These symptoms indicate high insulin levels and insulin resistance.

Insulin resistance is often accompanied by high androgen (male hormone) levels. In women, this constellation indicates PCOS (polycystic ovary syndrome.) Women with PCOS typically have irregular periods; they often also have acne and/or excess hair. If you have any of these symptoms, you should have your androgen levels checked.

A lot of people with insulin resistance find that they need low carb diets, so that is something to consider if you turn out to have insulin resistance. (Both WW Flex and WW Core tend to be quite high in carbs; I go to WW meetings, but neither of their diets works for me.) Other treatments for insulin resistance include Metformin, Byetta, and lots of exercise.

If you are on any medications, you should discuss them with your doctor. Many medications cause weight gain.

I've spoken to either five or six dieticians (I can't recall which), and have never found them to be of any help. Every dietician I have spoken too really pushed a low-fat/high-carb diet, even though the endocrinologists I've seen in the past five years all have told me to limit my carbs because of my diabetes. But, I've already tried all sorts of diets in the past 25 years, from very low fat to low carb, and I am very careful about weighing/measuring food and looking up nutrition content, so maybe I'm not typical and other people get more out of seeing dieticians.


I think I got a full blood workup. How can I be sure the doc knows the new thyroid guidelines? Does anyone know what they are? I am going to research on the internet too.

I was worried that a dietician may not help, so I think I am going to wait for the bloodwork and then make up my own diet. :rotfl: