PDA

View Full Version : ODD..anyone familiar with this?


MommyWithDreams
03-15-2008, 12:36 PM
Anyone have a child with Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD)...or know anyone that has a child with it? Can you share your stories if you do?
Thank you.

Lorix2
03-15-2008, 01:14 PM
Hi,

I have a son with ODD, he's 10. For 5 years I knew something was 'off' with him and realized it's beyond anyone's control. We are in the very early stages of having him evaluated for this and ADD, since they say ODD is never a single diagnosis, it usually involves another disorder as well with symptoms of another, comorbidity is the term they use.

I can only tell you and you probably know and have experienced first hand how difficult these kids can be with the defiance, oppositionality and anger, they're always blameless, never their fault, they don't fear authority of any kind, they are disruptive, intentionally annoy other people, don't care about consequences, etc...

Our neurologist finds that individual counseling does not usually help a child with this (I tend to agree) but plenty can help the parents learn to deal with the kids.

I can't give you any advice, I just wanted to let you know you are not alone. It's never easy and I know my son is predictable at times and unpredictable at other times, you never know how your day will go visiting someone or the issues that will arise with them.

Are you having him eval'd by a professional?

MommyWithDreams
03-15-2008, 02:27 PM
Hi,

I have a son with ODD, he's 10. For 5 years I knew something was 'off' with him and realized it's beyond anyone's control. We are in the very early stages of having him evaluated for this and ADD, since they say ODD is never a single diagnosis, it usually involves another disorder as well with symptoms of another, comorbidity is the term they use.

I can only tell you and you probably know and have experienced first hand how difficult these kids can be with the defiance, oppositionality and anger, they're always blameless, never their fault, they don't fear authority of any kind, they are disruptive, intentionally annoy other people, don't care about consequences, etc...

Our neurologist finds that individual counseling does not usually help a child with this (I tend to agree) but plenty can help the parents learn to deal with the kids.

I can't give you any advice, I just wanted to let you know you are not alone. It's never easy and I know my son is predictable at times and unpredictable at other times, you never know how your day will go visiting someone or the issues that will arise with them.

Are you having him eval'd by a professional?

Thank you so much for responding. We've been having serious issues for about a year now. We've had appointments with a pediatric psychologist who chalks it up to "this is normal and kids can be defiant". That I understand......I was a preschool teacher and feel like I have seen it all........but not this. It's hard for me to talk about because, well it just hurts. I find us not going out to restaurants anymore, out shopping and I avoid playdates at all cost simply because of the behavior. His preschool has been WONDERFUL with trying to help us find a solution to the behavior. It wasn't until yesterday when I picked him up that his teacher had asked me if I had heard of ODD. I had never heard of it........I looked it up and it is SO my son. Every single symptom. I'm going to call his pediatrician and hopefully FINALLY after a year of no progress go down another route. I am so sad and just don't know what to do.
We just got back last week from Disneyland and it was a rough trip. Not the trip I thought it would be. Don't get me wrong..there were great moments. But also I was in silent tears for a lot of it. I almost postponed it because I was afraid this would happen.

MinnieVanMom
03-15-2008, 02:35 PM
Might I suggest that you post in the disAbility section for a better response.

mrsbornkuntry
03-15-2008, 03:09 PM
Wow, I hadn't heard of this before, but I am going to research it. This sounds so much like my 3 (4 in a couple weeks) year old. I haven't mentioned any issues to his doctor because I figured they would tell me he was too young to diagnose, but it wouldn't hurt to read up on it. Maybe I can find some better ways to care for and discipline him.

MM27
03-15-2008, 04:24 PM
I had a student in my class a few years ago with ODD. He was a challenge behavior wise but he was one of the brightest kids I have ever had.

TenThousandVolts
03-15-2008, 04:49 PM
I am familiar and my heart goes out to anyone dealing with this in their family. A huge percentage of kids with ODD also have adhd (over 60% I think) I am part of an ADHD support group (I have ADHD and so do my kids) and many of the people I know from the group are dealing with ODD as well as ADHD. I agree- the DISabilities board would be a good place to post this. I would look for a local support group- people can empathize- but only like parents can really understand. Also (if the child hasn't already) I would try to see a good bio-psychologist or neuro-psychologist. My youngest has quite a few co-morbidly existing disorders and I think this is a good kind of doctor to see. They look at the physical/chemical as well as psychological/emotional when evaluating their patients.

I think it is great that you are going after this issue now, while he is in preschool. Two of the moms I know have the kids (both boys) in behavior therapy or behavior modification and both have found it helpful. These kids are older (one in 3rd grade, one in 6th). So I can only beleive that if your son does have this condition and you begin getting him some help now, at his young age, it can only be better starting early, than waiting and seeing.
Chin up- wishing you the best, truly.
Edited: I just looked at your trippie- your son is super cute!

aka-mad4themouse
03-15-2008, 05:23 PM
I've copied this thread to the disABILITIES Community Board. You can find it here:
http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1755638

camdensmom
03-15-2008, 05:53 PM
I have worked with several children who were diagnosed as ODD. Incidentally, each also had an "additional" diagnosis (ADD, ADHD, anxiety disorder). They can be very challenging. I have had such great success with each of them (2nd and 3rd grade level). As a teacher I find it is super important to build a strong relationship with them, pick your battles and celebrate their successes. They need to have boundaries, but lots of choice within those boundaries.

I wish you the best of luck as you begin the process of helping your son. Like others have said, I think it is very important to find support for yourself as a parent. Hugs!

MommyWithDreams
03-15-2008, 06:12 PM
THank you so much for the support and responses. And thank you akamad4mouse for putting my post in the right place. I had never been to the other board but a huge thanks :)

Poohgirl
03-15-2008, 07:04 PM
I can only tell you and you probably know and have experienced first hand how difficult these kids can be with the defiance, oppositionality and anger, they're always blameless, never their fault, they don't fear authority of any kind, they are disruptive, intentionally annoy other people, don't care about consequences, etc...



Wow, just what Lorix2 said...word for word describes my Ds(11) most of the time. Completely draining. :headache:

buzzlady
03-15-2008, 07:06 PM
My son 15 (16 in June) was diagnosed 3 yrs ago. We were in therapy for almost a year. That really didn't seem to help much. What I did learn was to "just walk away" as hard as it is to do sometimes! You need to seperate yourself until the anger subsides.

We are in the process of having DS re-evaluated as he is failing all subjects and just doesn't seem to care. Yeah, he cares when you talk to him about it but it ends there.

I wish you all the best! It is a long hard road.

bumbershoot
03-15-2008, 08:54 PM
:hug: :hug:

I just went looking for a list of symptoms.

Have you ever seen my posts about what happens when my 3 year old has anything related to corn syrup? That list could define what happens with my guy.

Figured it out at an outdoor festival last summer, 20 minutes after he ate a lollipop. After being viciously attacked by him, after carrying him home in the July heat and having him nearly pass out once the adrenaline had been spent (making him even heavier for the walk back), and crying for a few days (and posting elsewhere about it), the light came on. (he is totally fine with proper sugar, it's not a sugar thing, by the way...)

I might sound like a broken record, and some might think it's idiotic, but that is exactly how my son would act when he would eat something like that.

I know you've read my DLR trip reports; did you read about how he reacted to a Dole Whip? Or an Uncrustable? Both Disney favorites, both loaded with corn syrup byproducts. Now that he doesn't eat them anymore, he doesn't act like that anymore.

In fact we just found a candy that has hidden corn syrup in it, and I'm emailing back and forth with the manufacturer about it. I'm guessing they didn't use pure vanilla or a pure other flavoring, b/c so many flavorings like that have high fructose corn syrup in them, and they state there's nothing in the candy with corn syrup in it (I haven't asked THEM about the vanilla yet), but I've watched DS's behaviour go 180 in the wrong direction, back to the list of symptoms I just found, 10 minutes after he eats one of them.

I would *highly* recommend checking out his diet, and if he's eating things with those products in it, watch what is happening when he changes. See what he has just eaten.

It's worth a try, anyhow, it really is.

I'm so sorry that your trip wasn't all that it should have been. That's how I felt last September, before I really knew how many Disney products were full of that crud (read the uncrustable ingredients on the December trip).

I've been reading your trip report, and was just thinking the other evening that he has some facial similarities to my guy, maybe not evident in pictures of Eamon, but when I look at Eamon and your A, I see it. Since they are around the same age, and since this behaviour seems so similar to how DS has acted, I feel even more empathy towards you than I would another mom/kiddo. :hug:

irishvixen
03-15-2008, 10:13 PM
My daughter has ODD as well. She is now 17 and has been diagnosed since she was 13. It is very hard and as she gets older even worst. She really believes nothing is her fault. I have the most difficult with ppl that have never heard of this so it is important to get the word out. I have heard that it is typical of teenagers and even her distant father has never heard of it and thought her doctor had no clue on what he was talking about. We have been to many doctors and councelors and she has been evaluated so many times. One doctor even told her this was normal so now she believes her behavior is ok. I'm scared for her because she is almost an adult and it does'nt seem to be getting any better. In fact, they took her off her medicine because she refused to take it and I could'nt handle the fights anymore. Its so sad because we use to be very close and now she tells me so many times she hates me and sometimes worst. I wish I could say it gets better but honestly I'm not sure.

debbi801
03-16-2008, 07:47 AM
:hug: Hi. For a period of time, it was thought that my 6 yr old DS had ODD. However, with further neuro-psych testing, multiple evaluations, etc. it was determined that he has Asperger Syndrome and SID. I would recommend getting your son a full psychological work up. He is on meds (through a psychiatrist) for the ADHD portion of things and will be working with an OT and pediatric psychologist for the other issues.

Good luck with everything. It can be so frustrating for us parents. :grouphug:

corpgirl
03-16-2008, 09:12 AM
I was a special education teacher for students with emotional and behavioral issues. Students with ODD can be very challenging. They will disagree for the sake of disagreeing. Don't get into a power struggle with your child. Keep the rules at home, as well at school, structured. If child does x, consequence will be y. They will push the boundaries to see if you will follow through. Keep your ground as difficult as it will be. If you're having difficulty at home and your child has difficulty at school, check out the special education services available. If you give a written request for evaluation, the school (atleast in MN) needs to evaluate the student. I enjoyed working with the challenging students in high school. I was very proud to see one of my worst case students graduate from boot camp in the National Guard. He later went to Iraq. He still has his rebelious side, but not as strong.

DearDaisyinDurham
03-16-2008, 12:18 PM
I was a special education teacher for students with emotional and behavioral issues. Students with ODD can be very challenging. They will disagree for the sake of disagreeing. Don't get into a power struggle with your child. Keep the rules at home, as well at school, structured. If child does x, consequence will be y. They will push the boundaries to see if you will follow through. Keep your ground as difficult as it will be. If you're having difficulty at home and your child has difficulty at school, check out the special education services available. If you give a written request for evaluation, the school (atleast in MN) needs to evaluate the student. I enjoyed working with the challenging students in high school. I was very proud to see one of my worst case students graduate from boot camp in the National Guard. He later went to Iraq. He still has his rebelious side, but not as strong.

My adopted daughter (now an adult) who was subjected to trauma before leaving her birth family, has ODD, ADD/ADHD, PTSD and is also bi-polar. Also attachment disorder.

A very good book recommended to me years ago by Beverly James is the Attachment disorder handbook. It's a godsend if you have questions about lack of attachment.

Number one recommendation for you as a parent would be - join (or START) a support group so you do not feel alone.:grouphug:

Hugs xoxoxoxoxoxoxo

JoiseyMom
03-16-2008, 12:40 PM
Here's a review I read on a book about dealing with ODD children.

http://www.daddyshome.com/article.asp?AID=5

loco4dis
03-16-2008, 01:04 PM
I have a daughter who was very defiant. We joked about it until it became unmanageable. I dreaded taking her anywhere, because I knew how it would end. If I had looked then at the descriptions of ODD I found on the web, they would have fit her perfectly. But we didn't look at any such descriptions. We decided to handle her with an ultra-firm, non-compromising, behavior-equals-consequences approach. It was exhausting, because she would throw these unbelievable fits if things didn't go her way. We didn't yell or scream or hit. Before we'd leave the house to go anywhere, I'd sit her down and tell her exactly what would happen/what would be taken away/etc. if she acted up. And they were severe consequences (from her perspective) such as missed birthday parties, prized toys taken away, sleepovers canceled, etc. And when she invariably acted up, those things happened. We didn't let her step one little toe out of line without a consequence occurring. We were beyond strict. We also did a lot of talking to her about the fact that the world expected her to behave. That as an adult, if we weren't "mean" now like we were being, she would be unhappy and lonely. I also told her that she should be grateful Daddy and I are being the grownups here, because being a grownup is hard work and our job is to let her be a carefree little girl. Little by little, she improved. And as I said, it was exhausting. It's sooo much easier to let such children have their way. She's 13 now, and she is a delightful, passionate, loving child. Oh, she can still pitch a fit when things don't go her way, and she still pays a price for it when she does, but those fits are few and far between, and she's always genuinely sorry afterwards.

Now, maybe I just had a spoiled daughter, though her older sister wasn't that way at all. I'm just suggesting that when it comes to defiant children, we could probably all see one of our children or another in those website descriptions. Definitely see your pediatrician, but I would never let a website or a teacher for that matter tell me my child has some "disorder." Every child takes a different approach, and sometimes we have to be the meanest mommies ever to help our children grow into beautiful human beings.

KAPTink
03-16-2008, 01:19 PM
Hugs to the OP!! This is a hard road, no matter what the label is. It's just sad when your children become something you never dreamed of, and have characteristics that make you feel helpless to manage. My son has had many labels, ADHD, ODD, bi-polar, high anxiety, attachment disorder, you name it. Sometimes the label itself doesn't really matter. It's just good to find others who are living what you are living. At the time it feels so very isolating, and truly no one, except someone who lives it can relate completely. We have a psychologist and a developmental behavioral pediatrician, and right now they both agree that they wouldn't know how to begin if they had children such as mine. Support groups do help! Find what works for you and your child and don't give up!! Every now and then I see little moments where we're making progress, and in the end, that is what counts. Hang in there!!

BrerMom
03-16-2008, 01:52 PM
I remember when our friend's son was diagnosed with ODD in middle school. He had been diagnosed with ADHD several years earlier. Her gut reaction to me was, "ODD? I've never heard of it. (She's a nurse.) It seems to mean that he wants the opposite of whatever we want just because it's fun to disagree. That doesn't help me at all! We knew that!" It was not easy for them at all, but he's in college now and well on his way to being one of the many success stories.

I agree with the other advice given: have clear boundaries, clear expectations, consequences that are natural as much as possible, and pick your battles carefully for there will be many that you have to fight. FWIW, this kid was also brilliant; he tested out of advanced classes.

:hug:

sl_underwood
03-16-2008, 02:04 PM
I agree with PP who said to get a full workup with a good psychologist. My oldest was diagnosed OCD, ODD, PTSD, and RAD when we got her. She was and still is obsessed with order and as long as we maintain order she is fine. She thrives on schedules and has to know the rules. She needs strict guidlines with no wiggle room and above all, we must create a united front and always follow through. My youngest child has PTSD, RAD, ADHD, SID and ASD. He often times appears to be ODD but its really ASD. He needs lots of positive reinforcement, the consequences must fit the crime or he doesnt seem to connect the bad behavior with the discipline. Contact a good child psychologist and have him tested. An accurate diagnosis will take time, dont rush, while you are waiting, read and educate yourself, if you arent already, work on setting proper boundaries, creating a united front so your child cant use the divide and conquer method (dd was especially good at this one) find a support group for parents of children with behavioral issues. And remember, there are lots of us out there. We are here to offer experience and support. :grouphug:

rie'smom
03-16-2008, 06:36 PM
Our 24 year old son was diagnosed ODD when he was 12. His teen years were inmitigated hell for us. I'm happy to say that he went to therapy a few years ago and he's been a dream ever since.
The BIG thing with ODD kids is they HAVE to be open to therapy. When he was first diagnosed, we brought him to therapy and for 6 monthe all he did was sit in the therapists office. He never said a word, so we stopped bringing him. He finally asked us to set up an appointment when he was 19.
There is light at the end of the tunnel. Unfortunately, that tunnel can be mighty darn long.

princessmom29
03-16-2008, 08:44 PM
As I high school teacher I deal with ODD, ADHD, ADD, and ashberger's regularly. Please know that it is more common than you think and you are not alone. I agree with earlier posters about getting a full workup on your child, but physical and psychological, but i just don't know about the corn syrup connection. I was a biochemist before I began teaching and from a biochemical prospective it just does not make sense. High fructose corn surup is just what it says, concentrated sugar made from corn. If you child has no problem consuming other sugars and is not allergic to corn in any way this should effect his/her disorder. Some children do have increased hyperactivity symptoms after consuming sugar, but that should be true of all sugars not just corn surup. Your body metabolizes all sugars using the same biochemical processes, so the source of the sugar should not matter unless you are allergic to something else in the plant it is coming from. If this is the case then all products from this plant should cause some kind of adverse effect.

grlpwrd
03-17-2008, 05:53 AM
For a time I thought my 9yo had ODD. I was referred to this website: www.conductdisorders.com Then I had her evaluated.

With her it was diet and sleep. I needed to refine her diet more and she needed more rest.

GL!

Lorix2
03-17-2008, 07:48 AM
Thank you so much for responding. We've been having serious issues for about a year now. We've had appointments with a pediatric psychologist who chalks it up to "this is normal and kids can be defiant". That I understand......I was a preschool teacher and feel like I have seen it all........but not this. It's hard for me to talk about because, well it just hurts. I find us not going out to restaurants anymore, out shopping and I avoid playdates at all cost simply because of the behavior. His preschool has been WONDERFUL with trying to help us find a solution to the behavior. It wasn't until yesterday when I picked him up that his teacher had asked me if I had heard of ODD. I had never heard of it........I looked it up and it is SO my son. Every single symptom. I'm going to call his pediatrician and hopefully FINALLY after a year of no progress go down another route. I am so sad and just don't know what to do.
We just got back last week from Disneyland and it was a rough trip. Not the trip I thought it would be. Don't get me wrong..there were great moments. But also I was in silent tears for a lot of it. I almost postponed it because I was afraid this would happen.

You're welcome. I am very sorry to hear your trip was not as exciting as you hoped it would be. I am no stranger to silent tears and my throat hurting so bad from trying to stuff it down and not coming out as a loud whail.

I've had to lock my bedroom doors and take deep breaths to not pass out from the intense anger, when my chest would just sink in upon every breathe I drew because I was seething. I've had to leave work to come home to stop him from antagonizing my 16 y/o until my husband came home. They're alone for alone an hour a day. I had to come home early from a weekend away with my husband to relieve the family member he wasn't behaving for. I've had to endure looks of disgust while dealing with him, I've had a stranger tell me to get my hands off my kid, because what they didn't know is that my son jumped out of my car while we were battling at a stop light and when I got him I wasn't letting him go, nor was I being *gentle* about it getting him back in the car while people were gawking and beeping for me to move my car. I've had to apologize for him pushing his way past someone, letting the door go in their face, etc...but at the movie theater, he's great :confused:

He takes any small appliance, remote control, nail clippers, massagers, alarm clocks, radio control cars, or batter charged anything - apart. Most get put back together, most have to be thrown away in pieces. We've resorted to hiding things from him, but he always finds them. If he's interested, he'll be the greatest kid and he's extremely bright and will amaze us with his problem solving and great ideas - but if he doesn't want to do something, we brace ourselves for the fall out and my 16 y/o is really affected by this lately. It's never an easy day around here, I have learned to pick some battles and ignore others, but he is very challenging and trying for the sake of doing so - because he wants to. I won't even bother mentioning how it's affected our relationship with my SIL because of him.

He's been eval'd by the Special Ed teacher who finds him very capable. We're not done other testing yet, but I know we're headed for the ADD diagnosis once this is all done, I'm sure of it.

These kids are not easy to be around at times, but they are ours and because we love them, we perservere. The best thing we can do for them is get them the necessary help - though it took me too many years of thinking of many excuses as to why these behaviors were arising - these boards helped me realize that I am not a bad parent, I just have a child who needs professional help and that's ok. Many of us are have been there and we are here for you and everyone else when you need us. :grouphug:

mannasn
03-17-2008, 07:44 PM
A friend of mine who is also a coworker has a child with ODD. My heart goes out to anyone who is dealing with a child suffering from this disorder, it really is heartbreaking to me to hear the stories she tells and the things she goes through.

She says she's known since he was 2-3 years old that something was just "wrong" with him. He had behavioral problems going back to very early elementary school.

dsnymomadopt2china
03-17-2008, 08:16 PM
My now 13yr old was 2 1/2 when adopted and we were his 7th home. He has always been a angry young man. He was in therapy for a couple years, he was on a collection of meds, but they really didn't make much difference for him. So, we really worked on behavior modification and I had to be a "totally in your face" mother which is sooo not my personality. He totally respects my husband and his issues are primarily "mother" and female authority figure difficulties. The parenting with love and logic works pretty good on him..."feel free to...but, this will happen...." It is always someone else's fault, my husband is good at getting him to admit it is his fault. One thing that really helped him when he was 6 and at his worse, was getting a new little sister, he loved her so and she was really his saviour. That was the most pleasant surprise of my life!::MinnieMo :smickey: pirate: pirate: princess: princess:

just2girls1
03-17-2008, 08:40 PM
Hang in there...I have a daughter 16 that has put me through things I would prefer to forget. Short story...many Dr's, diagnosises and meds later we seem to be on an even keal at the moment. I am however always on gaurd for the 'hammer' to drop.
One other thought...I also have a 10 yr old, there is a friend of hers that is a delight,now. However in Pre-K, kidnegarten this child was a different story. After testing, and different diagnosis and exhausting the parents, this child was diagnosed with a rare genetic disorder that is a VERY serious issue. The school made arrangements for his learning issues and with a lot of fighting on his behalf by his parents with the school, this child is a very bright happy young man.
My point is as I said before HANG IN THERE. It is heart wrenching at times and we will be the mean Mom but we have to do it for our children. :grouphug:

irishvixen
03-17-2008, 09:49 PM
Some how this thread makes me feel like I'm not going crazy. Seriously though, I have to lock my bedroom door whenever we leave. I don't feel safe around her at all. My 8 year old is scared as well and my husband leaves for a month at a time to work in Alaska. The worst thing of all is some of my not so great relatives that live over 9 hours away and only see my kids once a year or so don't see her the way we do, or the way our other family here does. I mean she has done some really bad things to our family and then lies so bad to the other family and pretends that it is all our fault and we are unfair and we are everything you can think of. Because she does'nt do drugs or is not pregnant or having se- my other family thinks she is not a bad kid but what they don't understand is that she has jumped out of the moving van because of something as simply as a song I would'nt turn that very moment, they don't understand or seem to care to hear the truth and that is the worst of all of this. They feel sorry for her because she lies so bad but my family including all three grama's on both sides and my father and everyone who live near know the truth. Its hard to get her help because when we had to go to court for her getting violent with me and my husband (she actually cut herself and said my husband did it and then told the police she did so they put her into a juvenile for a little time), the judge said that ODD was not a life threat so we should be able to control her, yet she can legally move out at 17 which she is but we are still responsible until she is 18. Now I do not want her to move out ever, well until she graduates, I know she could not handle that. She is and always will be my daughter but I have to stick up for my other daughter too. I hope you guys don't mind my spelling errors, I know I have many. It just feels really good to let this out and I'm so happy the OP mentioned this.