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Tinker'n'Fun
03-13-2008, 09:34 PM
**Update** I spoke with the District Manager today and he stated that the store policy is to ask disruptive customer's to leave. If they do not associates are to immediately contact the police. I requested that an incident report be filed and a copy be sent to me. I also requested an apology letter from the Manager who gave me the wrong information. District manager stated that disciplinary actions would be taken.. (Not sure if I believe him as I was a supervisor in CS for many years and this was a standard line for angry customers...) I'll let you know if they follow up. I will feel better knowing if he is to come back and try something that his conduct will be recorded.

This may be a bit OT but I have to do something before I explode.....

Tonight I took my DS12 shopping for sneakers. This is an unusual scene since he never wants to be with me anymore and shopping isn't a boy thing. We went to a "famous" budget priced shoe store in a local strip mall. There were only us, two other shoppers, and two "intelligent" looking employees. They were even friendly and said helllo as we walked through the door....

I have to stop here and say I have never been so upset and shaky in my life, never!! Tonight has changed my views of the world big time..

Back to shopping. DS picked out two pairs of sneakers and I even found one for me and one for DD. We head to the checkout. Now the only employee in view is the young lady ringing us out. WE are approximately 15ft from the front door when all of a sudden this "disturbed" gentleman opens one side of the store doors and blocks off the other door so no one can leave. He starts shouting obscentities and threatening the workers and shoppers. I look to the the cashier (SHE has a headphone on her head) and I assume she is calling the police... Nothing just babble about my sale. I ask her to call the police or have the manager call. She said no! Well I fumble through my cards and make the sale as long as I can so I don't have to go near the door. About 5 minutes later the man leaves. Still no response or help from the employee other that "he has been here before". Now I am shaking and DS who towers over me in height, but still is only 12 is very upset. I can see it in his eyes. So I drive home immediately and fall on the couch crying and telling DH. I calm down enough to call the store and ask the manager for a corporate number because I feel they allowed us to be in danger. The manager said "I couldn't call the police that would break protocol as we take a passive approach to these situations at our store":scared1: :scared1:. I think this is where I lost my mind and almost pee'd my pants:confused3. I told him that I didn't want the employee to upset this man but hey they have a back room and the police are always in the parking area of the stores....

So what would you do and what do you think I should say to the District Manager when he calls me back...

PS.. I want to bring the shoes back but DS absolutely Loves his new sneaks.. so please don't recommend that...

Thanks for listening and reading this long post!

LanaJae
03-13-2008, 09:49 PM
This may be a bit OT but I have to do something before I explode.....

Tonight I took my DS12 shopping for sneakers. This is an unusual scene since he never wants to be with me anymore and shopping isn't a boy thing. We went to a "famous" budget priced shoe store in a local strip mall. There were only us, two other shoppers, and two "intelligent" looking employees. They were even friendly and said helllo as we walked through the door....

I have to stop here and say I have never been so upset and shaky in my life, never!! Tonight has changed my views of the world big time..

Back to shopping. DS picked out two pairs of sneakers and I even found one for me and one for DD. We head to the checkout. Now the only employee in view is the young lady ringing us out. WE are approximately 15ft from the front door when all of a sudden this "disturbed" gentleman opens one side of the store doors and blocks off the other door so no one can leave. He starts shouting obscentities and threatening the workers and shoppers. I look to the the cashier (SHE has a headphone on her head) and I assume she is calling the police... Nothing just babble about my sale. I ask her to call the police or have the manager call. She said no! Well I fumble through my cards and make the sale as long as I can so I don't have to go near the door. About 5 minutes later the man leaves. Still no response or help from the employee other that "he has been here before". Now I am shaking and DS who towers over me in height, but still is only 12 is very upset. I can see it in his eyes. So I drive home immediately and fall on the couch crying and telling DH. I calm down enough to call the store and ask the manager for a corporate number because I feel they allowed us to be in danger. The manager said "I couldn't call the police that would break protocol as we take a passive approach to these situations at our store":scared1: :scared1:. I think this is where I lost my mind and almost pee'd my pants:confused3. I told him that I didn't want the employee to upset this man but hey they have a back room and the police are always in the parking area of the stores....

So what would you do and what do you think I should say to the District Manager when he calls me back...

PS.. I want to bring the shoes back but DS absolutely Loves his new sneaks.. so please don't recommend that...

Thanks for listening and reading this long post!

I would tell the District Manager exactly what you told us.

It won't make you feel any better, but I've been in stores where this has happened before and I worked at a huge facility for mentally ill people for years. It sounds as if this happens fairly often in that store, maybe this man hangs around that area. The police are probably familiar with him too and regard him as harmless in the violent sense. Of course he should not be swearing in a public area, or blocking the doorway and that needs to be addressed with him immediately. He sounds like he has schizophrenia and is not taking medication at the moment.

It doesn't make it right though and I sure understand how scary and upsetting this would be if you've never experienced it before.

bdcp
03-13-2008, 09:54 PM
Um, so explode to those involved. As far as I can tell, he didnt' break any laws and if the employees know him and this is not unsuual, there is nothing you can do other than complain to management. I can understand you being upset at the time, but the employee saying he's done that before tells me they dont' see him as a real problem. I don't see the point in returning the shoes or in you crying when you got home since it was over and nothing really happened. I'm not the crying type, but I might call the manager and tell him I was somewhat concerned and that you will never return to his store again. The most they can really do is tell him to move on. Okay, so what do you mean by "threatening the workers"? What exactly did he say? That's too general of a statement. What the heck do you mean by "intelligent looking employees"? If one incident in one store at night changed your "view of the world" where have you been? The news is worse every day. What did you want the employees to do? Throw him out? Call the cops who would have done nothing more than tell him to move on? You werent' too upset to come on here, on the internet and post. I dont get that. I have friends and family and the last thing I'd do is come on an online board and "vent". That's what I have friends and family for. What did you DH say? My guess is he wasn't as concerned as you.

dvc at last !
03-13-2008, 09:55 PM
This may be a bit OT but I have to do something before I explode.....

Tonight I took my DS12 shopping for sneakers. This is an unusual scene since he never wants to be with me anymore and shopping isn't a boy thing. We went to a "famous" budget priced shoe store in a local strip mall. There were only us, two other shoppers, and two "intelligent" looking employees. They were even friendly and said helllo as we walked through the door....

I have to stop here and say I have never been so upset and shaky in my life, never!! Tonight has changed my views of the world big time..

Back to shopping. DS picked out two pairs of sneakers and I even found one for me and one for DD. We head to the checkout. Now the only employee in view is the young lady ringing us out. WE are approximately 15ft from the front door when all of a sudden this "disturbed" gentleman opens one side of the store doors and blocks off the other door so no one can leave. He starts shouting obscentities and threatening the workers and shoppers. I look to the the cashier (SHE has a headphone on her head) and I assume she is calling the police... Nothing just babble about my sale. I ask her to call the police or have the manager call. She said no! Well I fumble through my cards and make the sale as long as I can so I don't have to go near the door. About 5 minutes later the man leaves. Still no response or help from the employee other that "he has been here before". Now I am shaking and DS who towers over me in height, but still is only 12 is very upset. I can see it in his eyes. So I drive home immediately and fall on the couch crying and telling DH. I calm down enough to call the store and ask the manager for a corporate number because I feel they allowed us to be in danger. The manager said "I couldn't call the police that would break protocol as we take a passive approach to these situations at our store":scared1: :scared1:. I think this is where I lost my mind and almost pee'd my pants:confused3. I told him that I didn't want the employee to upset this man but hey they have a back room and the police are always in the parking area of the stores....

So what would you do and what do you think I should say to the District Manager when he calls me back...

PS.. I want to bring the shoes back but DS absolutely Loves his new sneaks.. so please don't recommend that...

Thanks for listening and reading this long post!

Yikes !
Where did this happen ?
I just got home from the Walden Galleria !


:cool1:

Tinker'n'Fun
03-13-2008, 09:58 PM
Yikes !
Where did this happen ?
I just got home from the Walden Galleria !


:cool1:


Sam's Plaza across the street...

northcapemaymom
03-13-2008, 10:10 PM
Um, so explode to those involved. As far as I can tell, he didnt' break any laws and if the employees know him and this is not unsuual, there is nothing you can do other than complain to management. I can understand you being upset at the time, but the employee saying he's done that before tells me they dont' see him as a real problem. I don't see the point in returning the shoes or in you crying when you got home since it was over and nothing really happened. I'm not the crying type, but I might call the manager and tell him I was somewhat concerned and that you will never return to his store again. The most they can really do is tell him to move on. Okay, so what do you mean by "threatening the workers"? What exactly did he say? That's too general of a statement. What the heck do you mean by "intelligent looking employees"? If one incident in one store at night changed your "view of the world" where have you been? The news is worse every day. What did you want the employees to do? Throw him out? Call the cops who would have done nothing more than tell him to move on? You werent' too upset to come on here, on the internet and post. I dont get that. I have friends and family and the last thing I'd do is come on an online board and "vent". That's what I have friends and family for. What did you DH say? My guess is he wasn't as concerned as you.

Ouch. Bdcp, were you at the store?:rolleyes:....could you have been the person standing in the doorway? Hmmm....

Tinker'n'Fun
03-13-2008, 10:12 PM
Ouch. Bdcp, were you at the store?:rolleyes:....could you have been the person standing in the doorway? Hmmm....


My thoughts also... but thought maybe I was being too sensitive tonight due to the circumstances of my evening.

HannaBelle
03-13-2008, 10:14 PM
"disturbed" gentleman opens one side of the store doors and blocks off the other door so no one can leave. He starts shouting obscentities and threatening the workers and shoppers.


That sounds pretty dangerous to me and in lieu of everthing that is happening in the world today it is not at all unreasonable to expect the police to take action in this situation.

I am so sorry this happened to you and I would not let it keep you from shopping. That stores policy is too lax. I am anxious to hear what upper management has to say about the behavior.

Tinker'n'Fun
03-13-2008, 10:18 PM
I guess I was over dramatic about the shopping thing, but I was definetely scared. I just won't go alone at night anymore... And we do have to eat so boycotting grocery shopping probably won't fly around here.. Even though I would like to try.

northcapemaymom
03-13-2008, 10:25 PM
Tinker'n'fun, I would have been upset too if I were in your position - especially since your son was there. How were you supposed to know this nutter-butter was "harmless"? Who says the next time he makes an appearance at that store he could totally go off and hurt someone? If the store cannot take action to keep their customers safe by calling the police, they have no right to stay in business. Who would want to shop there in the future if they allow this person to harass their customers? Definitely talk to the management - and don't hold back either.;)

northcapemaymom
03-13-2008, 10:27 PM
Double ouch.:sad2:

HunnyPots
03-13-2008, 10:27 PM
OK, so he's done this before, they say. Well, there had to have been a first time when they didn't know whether or not he was harmless and still they chose to do nothing. The point is, he made threats and the store did nothing to protect their customers or employees. That is what you tell the district manager. And you also tell him/her that you will be notifying the local police and/or mall security yourself to alert them to the problem. And then you do it.
And if it were me, I would tell everyone I knew about the incident so they can decide for themselves if they feel safe shopping there. I would not be going back. :mad:

Tinker'n'Fun
03-13-2008, 10:27 PM
DH was very concerned and actually placed the call to the corporate store. He spoke with a young lady who then spoke with me. And just to set the record straight, I didn't come to the "budget board" for validation! I came here because I feel more comfortable with my "budget board friends", value "their" opinions and am a frequent poster here...

npmommie
03-13-2008, 10:31 PM
Honestly I don't think you are being fair to the OP. SHE felt scared in that situation..........SHE does not work in that store, she never experienced this before, she may have never experienced a mentally ill person.........Her feelings should not be discredited just because you do not share them. We all respond differently to these situations.
and she felt threatened, she had her child with her,
OP I am sorry that happened to you, I hope you both feel better:flower3:

Tinker'n'Fun
03-13-2008, 10:37 PM
Honestly I don't think you are being fair to the OP. SHE felt scared in that situation..........SHE does not work in that store, she never experienced this before, she may have never experienced a mentally ill person.........Her feelings should not be discredited just because you do not share them. We all respond differently to these situations.
and she felt threatened, she had her child with her,
OP I am sorry that happened to you, I hope you both feel better:flower3:

Thank You, I am calming down a bit now. I have had some experience with mentally ill persons, and have even been in the store when the police are in for shoplifting/disturbances. But tonight I felt trapped. Maybe he was harmless, but how was I to know? The young lady behind the counter just kept her head down...

LanaJae
03-13-2008, 11:28 PM
Thank You, I am calming down a bit now. I have had some experience with mentally ill persons, and have even been in the store when the police are in for shoplifting/disturbances. But tonight I felt trapped. Maybe he was harmless, but how was I to know? The young lady behind the counter just kept her head down...

The store was in the wrong, period, even if they know the man and even if he's been doing this for weeks/months/years. If they were experienced with him, someone should have had the sense to go over to him and walk him outside and tell him that he could not shout or block a doorway. If they were at all intimidated, the police should have been called. YOU were the customer tonight, not him. The store needed to do what it could to make you comfortable in a situation that they are aware of.

You did nothing wrong by posting this here, there are kind people to respond, and after all, you were shopping for a bargain!

DOOM1001
03-14-2008, 12:16 AM
This reminds me a bit of my first job at a Champs sports and over by the shoes a guy just fell to the floor and started spinning and shouting bad words and acting nutty,everyone,employees and other shoppers came over to see what was happening,he stayed doing this for over a minute.Well we had a young manager who realized this might be a ploy to distract attention and he was focusing on the entrance of the store and sure enough about 30 seconds into his act another guy who was hanging out by the clothes tried to sneak out with hundred dollar jackets and a few other things the manager saw him and grabbed him,the other guy ran off but I heard security caught him.

FSUDisneyGirl
03-14-2008, 12:39 AM
:hug: I'm sure that was scary...I would be freaked out, too! I think that the store has a responsibility to keep a safe environment for everyone...hope you get it all figured out! :goodvibes

kaytieeldr
03-14-2008, 01:27 AM
OK, so he's done this before, they say. Well, there had to have been a first time when they didn't know whether or not he was harmless and still they chose to do nothing. Um, no - we have NO way of knowing what action was taken the first (or first few, or first dozen, or whatever) time this he did this. Probably the store DID call the police - and it's since been determined that such action is pointless/unnecessary.

If the OP isn't happy with the response from the store, why not contact the mall owners, or the police on her own?

mpls_mm
03-14-2008, 01:41 AM
I think as a society we are far too passive or worried about appearing nice. I don't know if it's a woman thing or what. I was in law enforcement and even after left I have tended bar in some seedy places and been in the middle of many ugly situations. I have seen plenty of "harmless" mentally ill people go off the deep end. That man obviously needed medication or intervention. Everybody turning a blind eye does him no good, the police can do something if someone is a threat to himself or others. If that man walked into traffic or killed someone, everyone who did nothing has a responsibility in it. I personally value my safety and do not wish to be a target. I don't assume somebody else will look out for me or what the past actions have been or what might happen. If there is a fight in a restaurant or bar, I am the first one to get behind the bar or head for the kitchen or call the police. In that situation, I would have told her to call the cops and would have waited at a very safe distance until they got there, not asked, but demanded, then the police would have walked me out to my car. I certainly would not stand near a man making terroristic threats and I certainly would not walk out alone where he could be waiting. I have talked to dozens of women who have been hurt or raped and many say " I had this feeling " or " I should have... "
We should listen to our gut feelings and not worry about being dramatic. Why on earth would anyone compromise their safety or childrens safety to wait and see? I would much rather be saying, "I sure looked silly diving for cover and calling the cops than saying I don't have my child anymore because I didn't do anything.
As for the poster that wanted to see what the husband thought to assess the situation, I don't need my husband or any man to validate my reaction before I can see if it is warranted and asking that question is insulting to women everywhere. That you are a woman makes it even worse. This is not 1950, we get to vote and everything now.

grlpwrd
03-14-2008, 06:03 AM
Unlike you, I didn't get the drama vibe. I got my-personal-safety-is-being-threatened vibe.

I used to work at 7-11 when I first started college right out of high school. Company protocol did not allow us to basically protect ourselves in case of a robbery. I don't know how it is for the company now, but in this day and age with so many cases of workplace violence I wouldn't be so complacent.

It's dangerous to not go with your instincts and be so complacent. There have been too much violence in the world.

OP, maybe you can change how they handle those kinds of situations. Maybe not. Next time call 9 1 1 yourself. I have done this because like I said I am not complacent and I don't put too much credence in others. You just never know these days.

I can recollect many, many incidences of mentally ill people assaulting or even murdering people in Hawaii. One incident was at a Burger King. An innocent customer was bludgeoned to death with a hammer. Just recently a paranoid schizophrenic man killed a taxi driver and a couple taking pictures on top of Tantalus. Yup, you just never know when people will snap.

We should listen to our gut feelings and not worry about being dramatic. Why on earth would anyone compromise their safety or childrens safety to wait and see? I would much rather be saying, "I sure looked silly diving for cover and calling the cops than saying I don't have my child anymore because I didn't do anything.
As for the poster that wanted to see what the husband thought to assess the situation, I don't need my husband or any man to validate my reaction before I can see if it is warranted and asking that question is insulting to women everywhere. That you are a woman makes it even worse. This is not 1950, we get to vote and everything now.

Ditto. Never compromise your safety.

eliza61
03-14-2008, 06:07 AM
Op, next time call the cops. Seriously! You have the absolute right to feel safe in a store and it is the stores responsibilty to provide the safety. I don't give a flying flip who this guy was. Whether or not he's done this before or people " feel you live for drama"or what. That's not the issue, the issue is you felt that you and your child were threatened. that is a problem. I would have started throwing shoes and causing a big enough scene they would have called the cops on me

Miss Jasmine
03-14-2008, 06:08 AM
This would have bothered me as well, especially in light of all the store shootings and such that have been happening. This is also why I am working on obtaining a Concealed Carry Permit. Next time just call law enforcement yourself.

alicenwonder99
03-14-2008, 06:25 AM
That would have upset me alot, too! I don't blame you for coming home and crying. That is definitely not something that is the "norm" at our mall. If the stores are taking a passive approach to this man, then I would never shop there again. PERIOD! I'm sure there are many other malls to shop at. Spend your money where you and your family feel safe.

Cindy B
03-14-2008, 06:36 AM
Really nothing to be scared with in this situation. It sounds like the man has done this before and it is really a non issue. He wasn't shooting, just shouting obscenities.

Quite frankly, at 12 years old I'm sure he has heard those words before.

Souds like the guy has problems and that the store is used to it. If you work or live near a larger city, it has its share of crazies all the time. You just roll with it and move on.

branv
03-14-2008, 06:40 AM
OP -- you are NOT being overly dramatic. It would be an upsetting event for most, but especially for a parent whose child is with them at the time. Frankly, the news is full of stories of violent events where people had a number of warning signs that they ignored. Then afterward everyone is shocked and ask, "Why didn't anyone do anything?" This is exactly that kind of event. Maybe nothing will come of it, but there's just as much a possibility that something will. Obviously this guy is off his rocker -- if he can do this sort of thing, there is absolutely nothing that says he won't escalate it one day.

The store has a responsibility to protect their customers and their employees. I don't care if that means they have to call the cops 20,000 times. If the local cops won't do anything, they should be talking to the property owners. Property owners do not want to tick of their tenants, and with enough complaining can at least put added pressure on the local cops or hire their own security (which they really should have anyway).

And lets be honest. Even if this guy never gets violent, what store in their right mind will subject their patrons to obscenities and threats from the same person over and over without doing anything about it? Give me a break -- is that not just about the stupidest position to take from someone who wants customers to keep coming back and spending money in their store?

Don't let it get you down -- your instincts are correct here, and there is nothing wrong with being protective of yourself and your child, as well as being concerned about those who visit the store in the future. If the district manager won't do anything about it, I would also call or email the person above them and approach it not only from a safety standpoint, but a "why would I want to shop here if I'm dealing with that?" standpoint. Money talks.

mickeyfan2
03-14-2008, 06:46 AM
There is a McDonalds near us. One day we go in and see a women dressed for winter and it is 95 degrees outside. She is talking to herself. She seems harmless so we sit down near her and eat. We see her repeatedly over the next few months to maybe a year, then we don't see her again.

I go to get my hair cut at a strip mall about a 1/2 mile from the McDonald's and there she is sitting outside. I ask the person I know and they explained that she is banned from the McDonalds since she did something to another customer. I see her at that strip mall a few more times and then she is gone. She did something to a person there and was banned from the strip mall.

We thought she seemed harmless but apparently she wasn't. She did far less whenever we saw her than that man did. I would tell them your story and they better hope that nothing happens to a customer.

BTW This woman was so skinny and boy could she eat!!!!

Tinker'n'Fun
03-14-2008, 08:16 AM
For everyone who posted, thank you for your understanding and kindness. After a terrible nights sleep, and my son waking in the middle of the night to talk (this is the boy who could sleep 20 hours straight, wake up and say he's tired) I have decided to go to the local police station and file an incident report. I know that it is a day late and a dollar short, but if it makes the police aware of his presence then I feel I did help in some way.

For the poster who said that a 12yo boy has heard all the obscenities... Yep he has and probably says them also, but when then are coupled together in a sentence with words/actions that are directed to you and are meant in a harmful manner, I would consider him a child and a young child at that. Boys are allowed to be scared and I am very proud of him for coming to me and telling me how he felt. We had a good talk and I hope he will bounce back soon. Its a sad society now, kids are not given a chance to let their guard down and have fun like we did when we were younger.

And finally, in case I left this out, I couldn't call 911 because I did not have a cell phone on me. I asked the young lady behind the counter to call but she refused. I didn't go get the manager because I pretty much froze in my spot and was covering up my son behind me. I do not plan on going back to that store and I will make it known to the store and anyone I know locally what their policy is on the safety of their patrons.

I will let you know what District had to say after they have called.

HeyIt'sMe
03-14-2008, 08:33 AM
I would have been scared too. You just hear too much on the news of shootings in public places. You just never know what can happen.

My DH had a similar incident - - not at a store but in the parking garage near his office. He got to work early one day and took a few minutes to clean out his car. He walked over to a trashcan and there was a man standing behind a support beam. The guy says "What are you doing? What are you throwing away?". DH said "What business is it of yours?" and the guy responds "I need to see some ID". DH asks him if he's a cop and the guy doesn't say anything. The guy starts to walk towards DH so DH says "You take one more step towards me and I'll lay you out!". As DH walks away the guy says "I'll be watching you".

So DH goes down to the office in the parking garage to talk to management. They knew who the guy was - some homeless/mentally ill guy that lives in a nearby shelter - that apparently does that time to time. The manager said he hadn't been there in a while. And then he said they were surprised he bothered DH because he usually just harasses the women. Geez. The manager said he'd call the police. DH hasn't seen the guy since.

maggiew
03-14-2008, 08:38 AM
Here in Chicago we recently had a man go into a Lane Bryant store and shoot several people. Several died. Unfortunately in today's society you can't be sure that situations like the OP experienced are no big deal. You have to take every case seriously.

Maggie

pixiewings71
03-14-2008, 08:18 PM
WOW! That would scare me too!! OP I'm sorry you and your son had to go through that. I'm not sure what I would do in that situation but I can say that is part of the reason I carry a cell phone and have the direct numbers for the local police in my phone. From hard experience I know that many times when you call 911 on a cell phone you get highway patrol 911 and not the local pd. Anyway, it doesn't matter if he does it a lot, it doesn't matter if he seems harmful or not, it's still scary! You have every right to complain OP and please do fill out a police report, never be shy about doing that.

problemchild718
03-14-2008, 08:47 PM
Your not from NY are ya? :lmao: Only kidding-stuff like that happens frequently in NY and the ER where I work in NJ.
Sorry you and your son got a taste of it. And sorry that its no big deal for us in this area. What has the world come to?

Tinker'n'Fun
03-14-2008, 09:52 PM
Your not from NY are ya? :lmao: Only kidding-stuff like that happens frequently in NY and the ER where I work in NJ.
Sorry you and your son got a taste of it. And sorry that its no big deal for us in this area. What has the world come to?


Yep NYS, but Western New York, Buffalo area...

pjlla
03-15-2008, 06:38 AM
Not much to add here, but I am so SHOCKED that people are giving YOU a hard time about this! That would bother me almost as much as the original incident!! You came here to share a scary incident and get some ideas from your BB "friends" and some of them have the NERVE to tell you that you are overreacting and to suggest that in this day and age that it is something you should "get used to" or "learn to deal with"!!?? I TOTALLY DISAGREE! You have every right to upset and to pursue the issue with WHOMEVER you feel necessary. Sorry that you came here for friends to support you and some of them felt it necessary to condemn you.................P

happygirl
03-15-2008, 07:50 AM
I'm sorry that happend to you I would have been scared to death, but I guess if the store didn't feel the need to call the cops I Guess they know best, maybe they knew calling the cops would have made the issues worse:confused3

jadedbeauty14304
03-15-2008, 08:30 AM
I would have been livid. I am from the Falls, (howdy neighbor) and shop in Cheektovegas a lot, and will be keeping my eyes open for this type of stuff. It would have scared the crap out of me too.

People who have never been in the situation have no idea what kind of fear these things can cause. I used to manage a small 24 hour restaurant in rural North Carolina. It was the only 24 hour place in the area, so it was very popular late at night. I remember working one night when I had some staff call in sick, and at about 2 in the morning, there was a situation where a man tried to rob us by shouting obscenities. Our company policy was to give robbers what they want and call police as soon as it is safe. Well, one member of my staff went against policy and threw a cast iron frying pan at the man, which just caused more havoc. A man ended up getting stabbed, and as the manager I was powerless to do anything. Trying to keep people safe in this situation is hard. The guy never got caught, but the company let me get a panic button installed. I left the industry shortly after that incident.

I am a strong independent woman who can take care of herself, not needing a man for anything. And I went home and cried my eyes out. It is a traumatic experience.

Be strong, and make sure to keep the lines of communication open with your son. No matter how physically big he is, he is 12 years old, and if he has issues with anxiety or sleep for more than a week or two, I would make an appointment with a counselor for a talk.

nikandboys
03-15-2008, 08:53 AM
OP and everyone else...I understand that everyone becomes desensitized to certain things, but please remaine cautious and vigilant. I work in a prison and am an AODA(alcohol and other drug addictions) couselor to convicted male felons. Many mentally ill persons will try to self medicate with illicit substances. As these are not perscribed, they cannot guarentee the amount taken. Please call the police, the one time you call could assist them in getting the help they desperately need and you can prevent someone from becoming the unfortunate victim. hey may not hurt you, but you don't know where they go when they are done at your location. I speak from having 10 years of dealing with these guys when they are finally sober and/or properly medicated. They need to address the harms they have caused. OP, you were very fortunate and I would have been just as scared if I was out with my son in the same situation. Take care! Your son may need to talk to someone, being sworn at and having the doors blocked to prevent you from leaving is very scary (not to mention could be a felony).
Nicole

eliza61
03-15-2008, 09:01 AM
Your not from NY are ya? :lmao: Only kidding-stuff like that happens frequently in NY and the ER where I work in NJ.
Sorry you and your son got a taste of it. And sorry that its no big deal for us in this area. What has the world come to?


Sorry Robin,
Not buying that. I am from NY. Harlem to be percise and no way, no how am I ever "getting over" some one threatening my children and you better believe if I'm in Macys, bloomies or any where else and some nutcase starts to loose it, I will be making a "HUGE DEAL" out of it.

OceanAnnie
03-15-2008, 09:05 AM
Unlike you, I didn't get the drama vibe. I got my-personal-safety-is-being-threatened vibe.

I used to work at 7-11 when I first started college right out of high school. Company protocol did not allow us to basically protect ourselves in case of a robbery. I don't know how it is for the company now, but in this day and age with so many cases of workplace violence I wouldn't be so complacent.

It's dangerous to not go with your instincts and be so complacent. There have been too much violence in the world.

OP, maybe you can change how they handle those kinds of situations. Maybe not. Next time call 9 1 1 yourself. I have done this because like I said I am not complacent and I don't put too much credence in others. You just never know these days.

I can recollect many, many incidences of mentally ill people assaulting or even murdering people in Hawaii. One incident was at a Burger King. An innocent customer was bludgeoned to death with a hammer. Just recently a paranoid schizophrenic man killed a taxi driver and a couple taking pictures on top of Tantalus. Yup, you just never know when people will snap.



Ditto. Never compromise your safety.


ITA! I would've been scared, mad, and frustrated! The, "he's done that before", statement doesn't hold water. What if he was having a bad day? That's all it takes for someone unstable to trip from words to action.

When they call you back, give them heck!

PiratesRock
03-15-2008, 09:18 AM
Just a thought... Could it be these employees didn't call the police only because they've been told not to by their management? due to "policy"? They might be grateful for customers who are proactive as they feel they can't be. Most shoe stores where I live have young, starter-job employees who just have to follow the rules set up by others. Might be the reason for the disappearing salesmen and the "just pretend he's not there" attitude of the sales-girl.
oh, and hope you have your cell phone on you all the time now. Not being able to call for help yourself definately made a bad situation worse. Personally, I have a handbag with little pockets where my cell phone and my taser (shhh, don't tell!) are easily accessible to me.

Your kids will learn a lot from how you handle this situation. More than you could ever teach them. You never know, this could prepare them to deal with a bigger issue in the future. Hope it's a one time thing, but you can use it as a teaching tool.

hinodis
03-15-2008, 09:23 AM
I am sorry you had to go through this:hug: I am a big chicken and I would have freaked out. I live in a very small town and have to travel to a city to shop at Target or Kroger. I stopped going alone at night a long time ago. Its not even a bad part of town, I just do NOT trust anyone. I will go alone in the daytime, who knows if that makes a difference? Probably not.

OceanAnnie
03-15-2008, 09:23 AM
Just a thought... Could it be these employees didn't call the police only because they've been told not to by their management? due to "policy"? They might be grateful for customers who are proactive as they feel they can't be. Most shoe stores where I live have young, starter-job employees who just have to follow the rules set up by others. Might be the reason for the disappearing salesmen and the "just pretend he's not there" attitude of the sales-girl.
oh, and hope you have your cell phone on you all the time now. Not being able to call for help yourself definately made a bad situation worse. Personally, I have a handbag with little pockets where my cell phone and my taser (shhh, don't tell!) are easily accessible to me.

Your kids will learn a lot from how you handle this situation. More than you could ever teach them. You never know, this could prepare them to deal with a bigger issue in the future. Hope it's a one time thing, but you can use it as a teaching tool.

Me too, but I carry mace on my key chain. It's nice to know I have it and can protect the children and myself. I keep my keys in my hand if we are in the park walking trails or in my coat pocket. If they made a taser for key chains, I'd get one of those too. Hmmm. I'll have to look into that!

PiratesRock
03-15-2008, 09:36 AM
Don't know about keychain tasers, but I do have a key ring that's shaped like a cat head. It's plastic and you put your fingers through the "eyes" and point the "ears" outward. Works a little like brass nuckles (sp?) but made completely of plastic. Without it, I couldn't fight a 90 year old and win! With it, I could actually hurt somebody!:cool1: $7.50 on e-bay.

OceanAnnie
03-15-2008, 09:47 AM
Don't know about keychain tasers, but I do have a key ring that's shaped like a cat head. It's plastic and you put your fingers through the "eyes" and point the "ears" outward. Works a little like brass nuckles (sp?) but made completely of plastic. Without it, I couldn't fight a 90 year old and win! With it, I could actually hurt somebody!:cool1: $7.50 on e-bay.

I never heard of that! What's it called?

Deanna64
03-15-2008, 09:58 AM
I am sorry to hear this happened to you, it would have scared the bejeezers out of me also.

I think the cashier ignored him due to the fact that he was probably looking for confrontation. Which would have made the situation worse. I work in a ER and we get these wack jobs all the time. We keep our cool and hope they calm down. Now if he would have came into the store waving a gun, that would have been a different story.

I can understand your stress and thats why you went home and let it all out. Its over and done with, think how you could have handled it differently and what to do in another situation like this. Its always best to be prepared.

I would also definately talk to your child about it, get his reaction and see if hes really ok.

Glad your ok....

Pixie Dust for Me!
03-15-2008, 12:41 PM
To all who say, don't worry...I say you are DEAD wrong! I grew up in a suburb of St. Louis where a mild mannered man who obviously had a few screws loose (and yep, I knew him and never would have thought he could have done this) shot and killed several people at City Hall.

Maybe this time it was just him yelling....after all, the guy I knew brayed at the City Council for more than 3 minutes....but next time, it could get worse.

To address strange behavior with complacency is to deny that "bad things" can happen where you live. Believe me, they can and do happen anywhere.

Glad everyone is OK. OP, stick to your instincts.

fkj2
03-15-2008, 12:45 PM
Tinker'n'fun, I would have been upset too if I were in your position - especially since your son was there. How were you supposed to know this nutter-butter was "harmless"? Who says the next time he makes an appearance at that store he could totally go off and hurt someone? If the store cannot take action to keep their customers safe by calling the police, they have no right to stay in business. Who would want to shop there in the future if they allow this person to harass their customers? Definitely talk to the management - and don't hold back either.;)

Exactly. I'm surprised that a store would assume such a liability. A personal injury attorney would have a field day. It's unfortunate that anyone has mental problems but the store personnel are hardly qualified to evaluate potential risk. Mental health care in the US is pathetic. We've certainly had enough examples nationally to illustrate that.

That any store would rather dismiss a disturbed individual's behavior rather than request public authorities to manage the situation, what IS that about? If police had been called, maybe that poor soul could have been held for treatment. But why would any retailer risk 1) potenially injuring customers or 2) looking disturbed themselves for failing to address the situation.

By doing nothing, they really spoke volumes about how they feel about not only themselves, but their customers and those in society who need help and medical attention.

Jennifer823
03-15-2008, 01:29 PM
The employees must have known this guy and of his "issues," but that doesn't excuse them from allowing him to scare you like that. If they knew him as being harmless and he did this before, they should have sent someone to the door as soon as he showed up to escort him out.

I would tell the district manager or whoever you speak to with the company that there is a security issue at this store. You were made to feel uncomfortable by a person who the employees knew was a problem and yet they did nothing. I would tell them that unless they hired a security guard or took other measures to make sure this guy wasn't threatening you would not be shopping there again. Regardless of whether anything actually "happened," they have a responsibility to create a safe environment for their customers, and apparently they didn't care about that at all! Give them a piece of your mind :)

happygirl
03-15-2008, 03:41 PM
To all who say, don't worry...I say you are DEAD wrong! I grew up in a suburb of St. Louis where a mild mannered man who obviously had a few screws loose (and yep, I knew him and never would have thought he could have done this) shot and killed several people at City Hall.

Maybe this time it was just him yelling....after all, the guy I knew brayed at the City Council for more than 3 minutes....but next time, it could get worse.

To address strange behavior with complacency is to deny that "bad things" can happen where you live. Believe me, they can and do happen anywhere.

Glad everyone is OK. OP, stick to your instincts.

Did this just happend maybe a month ago?? didn't this man have a beef over the council over some tickets where he sued the council and lost

Pixie Dust for Me!
03-15-2008, 04:00 PM
Yes, it happened about a month ago. My point is not what this man's "beef" was about...it was the fact that when someone behaves strangely and it makes you uncomfortable, don't just "brush" it off as a "harmless" nut-case. Things have a way of escalating and the problem for us all is we never know when things will reach a flash point.

Good luck dealing with the store.

FoundMyPrince
03-15-2008, 04:10 PM
Regardless of whether the employees see this person as a threat or not, you saw him as a threat and the store is obligated to take care of you while there. In a day when people are being shot at in Wendy's and Lane Bryant, I'm not sure we can be so passive in these situations.

Daydreamer64
03-15-2008, 06:08 PM
I have decided to go to the local police station and file an incident report.

:thumbsup2

I would consider him a child and a young child at that. Boys are allowed to be scared and I am very proud of him for coming to me and telling me how he felt.

12yo boys are not little adults- he and his mother were frightened and I am sure that my sons would react the same way.

I asked the young lady behind the counter to call but she refused. I didn't go get the manager because I pretty much froze in my spot and was covering up my son behind me.

I wonder if you could bring some kind of charges against her or the store for NOT allowing you to access the police or taking measures to call for protection. You were held against your wishes, in their store, by a stranger ( apparently an unstable one at that ) and the non-calling staff and no one did anything.

I live near Atlanta and have seen plenty of things happen. We were playing in the park and a friend's little son was shot when learning to ride his bike - he died a few hours later. I still wish that I had called the police when I noticed the group of "kids" that gave off a bad vibe- always listen to your heart.

Don't worry that people minimize this situation- it's easy to comment if you haven't been in the same kind of situation. I was robbed at gun point 4 times over the years that I worked for our local grocery store and believe me- we didn't wait when the town loons came in to entertain us- you never know if "this" time will might be the one that they kill someone.

Esmerelda
03-15-2008, 07:26 PM
Ok...always remember there are two ways to view every story.

From the OP point of view; she was out shoe shopping with her son and suddenly this man appears in the door acting eratically. She said he was shouting and blocking the door. Did he have any sort of weapon? Did he purposely not let anyone leave or was he just in the door? This could have looked very intimidating had the OP not had a clue as to whom this person was. As a previous poster stated, if you feel threatened, then you should call the police.

From the employees perspective; oh yea, there's crazy Harry again. He is always roaming around the plaza somewhere and yelling. He is really not supposed to be here. We aren't sure if he is mentally not right or what exactly the deal is but he does this all the time, we are so used to it. There is no need for alarm as he is harmless (other than loud and pottymouthed)

Of course my story is totally fiction but I'm trying to show that the same situation can be viewed totally different by people involved. The OP felt threatened and the workers see this person weekly.

I work in an emergency room and we have regular (as in mental patients) that the police bring a couple of times a month that to some visitors would seem quite threatening but they are harmless and we know that. We just do our job and they calm down.

To the OP, anytime you feel threatened by all means call for help. These employees may have been instructed by their superiors or the police not to call on this guy again...its hard to speculate. They could have perhaps explained to you better why they reacted as they did.

I hope this helps the OP. I understand you were scared I guess I'm just to used to this type of people. We have even had patients walk into the ER before with a loaded gun on their side (and this was not discovered until they were in the back). I'm just glad that there was no one hurt. I hope the manager of the store would call you and discuss the situation with you as there may be more to the story.

Tinker'n'Fun
03-15-2008, 08:34 PM
Just an update, I did not receive a call on Friday or today, on Monday I will call back and make sure that I speak with the District Manager and upward if I have to. The police dept took the incident report and were NOT aware of a problem at that store or with this person... It must be an internal thing at the store.. DH took me to another of these "shoe stores" in another part of town and I returned the one pair of shoes that needed to be exchanged.

To all the posters who have been so nice even if you didn't agree with my opinion, thank you very much. It was a shock for me to be "ouched" by some of the poster right after the situation but the nice poster outweigh any comments that hurt.. If I had to post again, I wouldn't change a thing. Thanks again for all the support.

ado121
03-15-2008, 08:35 PM
i am so sorry that this happened to you and i am disappointed in the reactions of people on this board.

my thoughts are with you and your son. how awful it must have been for him to endure this and for you have him suffer like that.

i too, would have been stunned. you did the right thing by asking the store clerk to call the police. the store clerk should have said more to you than 'no'.

please let us know what the district manager says when he/she calls.

you have my total support!

Vivianne
03-15-2008, 09:26 PM
I lived in NYC most of my life and despite being from a city, I would report this incident too.

At my place of work, we're expected to report these types of incidents for the record.

No one can predict what an erratic person is going to do. As we have witnessed in the news lately. It might take one little thing to trigger a person that has mental problems or even just plain anger issues.

This store has to rethink how they handle this situation and try to avoid potential problems in the future.

Kickapoo Joie Juice
03-16-2008, 10:11 AM
I guess I was over dramatic about the shopping thing, but I was definetely scared. I just won't go alone at night anymore... And we do have to eat so boycotting grocery shopping probably won't fly around here.. Even though I would like to try.


When you let situations like this circumscribe your life you give these people power.

Don't make your world smaller because of fear.

And I speak from experience here; I've been in some VERY scary situations in my life. You can't close yourself off from the world...

lila
03-16-2008, 11:05 AM
I completely, completely understand how the OP is feeling.

I live in a very nice area of NYC. Last year I ducked around the corner to a popular, trendy clothing and accessories store to pick something up, and didn't take my cell. While I was in the store a huge, violent fight broke out outside the store. The employees locked the glass doors (it was all glass) and the fight took place outside the store, up against all the glass windows. I have never, NEVER felt so trapped. The store personnel would not call 911, I didn't have my cell, and I actually took the store phone from the employees, but couldn't get an outside line. I finally convinced an employee to use their cell to dial 911. All the other people in the store gathered around the windows to watch, but I went to the back of the store (there was no other exit I could find). It was very scary, and I have never felt like that before. I cannot imagine how frightened I would have been if a threat had occurred IN the store itself.

Cindy B
03-16-2008, 11:31 AM
When you let situations like this circumscribe your life you give these people power.

Don't make your world smaller because of fear.

And I speak from experience here; I've been in some VERY scary situations in my life. You can't close yourself off from the world...

MTE!

If you wind up fearful, you are stuck in your house, within a very smaller world.

The world is good, bad and ugly. To close off frm the "bad and scary" parts does not do much to expand your horizons or experiences.

I refuse to let circumstances dictate my choices. I've been in stores where people have yelled, cursed and such. I've been in a store where one customer had sawed off handcuffs! (ALDI).. did I let it bother me? NO.
Do I just move on with my life? YES.

Jennifer823
03-16-2008, 11:59 AM
If I had to post again, I wouldn't change a thing. Thanks again for all the support.
:hug: I think a lot of the people who were nasty about this would have reacted in the same way as you did! Maybe the police will be able to take care of the situation yet - hopefully they will look into it since you filed that report.

leight
03-16-2008, 01:24 PM
OP- you were right to be scared and I am sorry that the store employees didn't respond/react in a more assuring or suitable manner.

I worked with metally ill adults in a community residence for over 7 yrs and am quite used to odd and off behavior. I still feel uncomfortable with a stranger when they act in a manner that is odd or threatening.

I had a client who made me completely uncomfortable and I reported him numerous times without avail. A few months after I resigned he was kicked out for making a threat to a supervisor and was shortly thereafter arrested for murdering a stranger at the social security administration. Always go with your gut when it comes to your safety and that of your child!

IF the employees knew him and felt safe they would have told him to leave. THey did not take precautions for your safety. Take it up the corporate ladder.

Tinker'n'Fun
03-18-2008, 09:34 PM
Thank you to everyone for their concerns and kind words. I updated my first post.

Ilike2Lurk
03-18-2008, 10:11 PM
Unlike you, I didn't get the drama vibe. I got my-personal-safety-is-being-threatened vibe.

I used to work at 7-11 when I first started college right out of high school. Company protocol did not allow us to basically protect ourselves in case of a robbery. I don't know how it is for the company now, but in this day and age with so many cases of workplace violence I wouldn't be so complacent.

It's dangerous to not go with your instincts and be so complacent. There have been too much violence in the world.

OP, maybe you can change how they handle those kinds of situations. Maybe not. Next time call 9 1 1 yourself. I have done this because like I said I am not complacent and I don't put too much credence in others. You just never know these days.

I can recollect many, many incidences of mentally ill people assaulting or even murdering people in Hawaii. One incident was at a Burger King. An innocent customer was bludgeoned to death with a hammer. Just recently a paranoid schizophrenic man killed a taxi driver and a couple taking pictures on top of Tantalus. Yup, you just never know when people will snap.



Ditto. Never compromise your safety.

Yes. I agree. Two words: Lane Bryant:angel:

OP, your story gave me chills:grouphug:

Ilike2Lurk
03-18-2008, 10:16 PM
I've been in a store where one customer had sawed off handcuffs! (ALDI).. did I let it bother me? NO.
Do I just move on with my life? YES.


Wow. It would be hard to "move on" after seeing a customer with sawed off handcuffs:scared:

Actually, fear is good. It is our body warning us that something is wrong.

Cindy B
03-19-2008, 05:45 AM
Wow. It would be hard to "move on" after seeing a customer with sawed off handcuffs:scared:

Actually, fear is good. It is our body warning us that something is wrong.


I was in line at Aldi. If you know anything about Aldi, because it takes forever to load, ring, unload, bag.. you just don't leave. We just avoided the guy (no direct conversation) and moved on with our day.

What good would it have done to do anything? Nothing. I avoided contact and moved on with my life.

I never returned to that Aldi.

I don't know. I lived in the city for my years and volunteered in deep urban areas for about 8 years. These deep urban areas were well, not very safe for anyone, let alone a person who would be a minority in those areas. I've definetely seen my share of ill/unbalanced people.

I work with special needs students and some are definetely unbalanced.

It really takes a lot for me to be scared. I'm going to find out my student teaching rotation soon. One of the possible placements is a jail. At first, I thought I wouldn't like the jail. Then I got to thinking, I will have two guards in the room at all times with me. I would work in a small group who is determined "safe" enough to be in the annexed school. I'd be fine with it.

A friend of mine did the jail rotation already. She said she felt safer than any other placement that she has been in.

Vivianne
03-19-2008, 03:21 PM
I lived in NYC in different neighborhoods that some people wouldn't like to live in.

My sister was mugged in the apartment bldg we lived in. My mother was mugged by a man on the street when I walked with her and we chased him down the block. Actually, I was running after my mother trying to stop her. Police blocking the street we were crossing and pulling their guns to stop a car with some criminal. I've seen assaults, unstable people on the subway. Our apartments have been robbed numerous times. I lived there when "Son of Sam" was killing people at random. When someone was pushing people in the subway tracks and the train severed a young violinist fingers that had to be re-attached.

Yes, we were scared. I lived in this type of environment for 20 years and can say that to calmly accept it is not the norm in those areas. When people see unstable people in a subway car, they take notice and get the heck out of there. It's better to avoid confrontation, because you can wind up a statistic. If you're trapped that's a whole other ball of wax. What you do learn is how to be cautious in those circumstances. Do you what you need to make yourself safe. The police will not be there for you at a moments notice. That's how we survived.

fey_spirit
03-19-2008, 04:42 PM
The problem is just because he's always been harmless, doesn't mean he'll always be harmless.
All it takes is that one time he finally goes over the edge for one or more people to end up dead.

When dealing with someone who might very well be seriously mentally disturbed, caution is always the better part of valor.


Really nothing to be scared with in this situation. It sounds like the man has done this before and it is really a non issue. He wasn't shooting, just shouting obscenities.

Quite frankly, at 12 years old I'm sure he has heard those words before.

Souds like the guy has problems and that the store is used to it. If you work or live near a larger city, it has its share of crazies all the time. You just roll with it and move on.

fey_spirit
03-19-2008, 05:09 PM
Uh Huh - my question is best for who?

I'm sorry that happend to you I would have been scared to death, but I guess if the store didn't feel the need to call the cops I Guess they know best, maybe they knew calling the cops would have made the issues worse:confused3

Kickapoo Joie Juice
03-20-2008, 07:34 AM
Uh Huh - my question is best for who?

Yeah, I agree. Never trust what other people's instincts are telling them. Trust your own first. Remember the lemmings...

MickeyP
03-20-2008, 08:18 AM
I've had a lot of experience with mentally ill, and while I would've brushed this off I think you were more affected than most. (Maybe not most)
I'm glad your husband took action. Have you considered counseling for you and your son? Threatening lives is no joke.
I'm also sorry that you feel more comfortable with your budget board friends than your actual friends. Give them a chance. They might surprise you.

HALEYSMOMMOM
03-20-2008, 08:25 AM
Wow! Looks like I'm kind of late to the game here, but after reading some of this, I can tell you I would be just as scared as you! And if I had my child with me, that would have made it even worse for me! Yes, I would have went home and cried, and yes I would have called the store and complained, and no I would never go back!
I feel sorry for those of you who feel like you are "used to this" kind of thing going on around you. I definitley am not, and don't ever want to be!

mom2rose&john
03-20-2008, 09:04 AM
To the OP - I am shaking just reading this post. I also live in your area and frequently shop at the stores in that plaza. I am stunned by all the responses that you should of treated the situation as a normal day out:confused: . For five minutes this man is at the door, this is not normal behavior IMO. You have a right to be fearful. I hope you are emotionally okay and please be proactive to get closure on this situation. Maybe a call to the Cheektowaga police to alert them of the situation will put you more at ease?