View Full Version : Is it really worth the difference? Polynesian vs Windsor Hills
kerry331
03-07-2008, 02:27 PM
Have any of you stayed at both?
please help!!
For 4 nights I would be paying approx 548.00 at Windsor...for a 3 bedroom townhome w/private pool..from the pics on line, the grounds are gorgeous w/beautiful pools and 1 mile from Disney. (gates). I know some of you have stayed there, so you will be helpful I am sure!!!
We are traveling to disney for the first time with our three children, ages 6, 4 and 2. Our first real family vacation!
We have been quoted our trip at the Poly.. airfare....with meal plans, with park tix...the whole 9 for 4 nights. It's expensive. Over 4k for all of us.
If we stay at Windsor hills with a rental car, we will be saving 1651.00. Of course, we'd STILL have to buy our own food still if we stayed at windsor hills. Although we wouldn't have to eat inside disney, as i hear it's really expensive??
Is this difference in price worth the convenience? Staying in disney- is it that magical?? I told my husband we'll still be shelling out good cash for meals at disney even though we have the 'meal plan'...the travel agent even told us that. Also we'd all be in one big room at the Poly, with the little ones. The pluses to the Poly are the view of the castle, the view of the fireworks at night too..of course- the monorail for easy transportation.
Is the Polynesian that wonderful? IS windsor hills better? The travel agent raved about the Poly. Being that this is our first trip to disney as a family, i'd like to do it right. I am just so confused!!! My husband would prefer to stay inside Disney, not mess with the rental car...he thinks it would be better for our first time experience to be right in the mix of things. I just think it's a lot of cash.
What do you think?
Oh, and i have to ask, if you have been- is the Luau dinner at the Poly really good? I am bummed b/c the travel agent told us she couldn't get us to the show during our stay! I really wanted to see this.. Does it make sense to rebook the week we are going to see this show???
Thank you in advance for your responses,
Kerry in NJ
Brian Noble
03-07-2008, 04:14 PM
They are really really different.
Ordinarily, I would not be willing to pay for the price premium of staying at Disney. I am a pretty hard-core off-siter. I generally only stay on Disney property if I can get DVC as a timeshare exchange.
That said, there are a few resorts that are exceptions. I would consider staying at Animal Kingdom Lodge, in a Savannah view room; that's a unique experience. I would consider a stay on the monorail, and of the three monorail resorts, preferably the Poly. I would consider a stay at either Yacht & Beach or Boardwalk to be within walking distance of Epcot. I wouldn't spend a week at any of these places, but absolutely would consider it for a shorter trip.
For a short trip, I would at least consider the Poly. The price difference is less pronounced for a short stay, and the lack of the extra space/amenities in a townhouse less of an issue. Especially if you imagine this is your only trip to Disney for some time, then I would go ahead and spend the extra grand or so that the Poly would cost.
Now, if you were staying for a week, or planned to come back every year, then maybe my answer is different. But, if the Poly is in your budget, I'd say go for it.
1daisy
03-07-2008, 04:34 PM
I definitely recommend the Poly. Although, I have never stayed at Windsor. We stayed at the Poly two years ago and haven't been anywhere else since. We love the convenience of the monorail. You can't beat it when it comes to having little ones. Ten minutes back to the hotel, take a break, hop on it again. Otherwise, you'd be stuck in the park or have to lug everybody back to the car, drive to the hotel. By the time you get there, everybody's probably asleep in the car, and they're ready to go again, no "rest" time at the hotel. Definitely would take 45 minutes to an hour to go back to the hotel, sure beats 5-10 and walk straight up to your room. I'm partial, we love, love the Poly!
mrsklamc
03-07-2008, 05:08 PM
I don't know about the rest but there's no time to fall asleep between the parks and WH. We went in low season, but we could be to the parks in literally 5 minutes.
mrsklamc
03-07-2008, 05:15 PM
I just read my response to DH and he said "Less than five minutes, depending on whether or not you hit the two lights in between.: :rotfl:
FayeW
03-07-2008, 08:41 PM
That $1651 that you are saving would buy you 7 days at WH, your rental car, and all your food for your vacation. If this is your first trip, 4 days is not enough. Try to schedule a longer trip...with the much cheaper cost of WH, it will still be cheaper than 4 nights at the Poly.
TotoToo
03-08-2008, 08:12 AM
There is no way that theming in the public areas offsets $1600+ and a tiny hotel room vs a home at WH. You can go walk around & sit in the public areas to enjoy those at Poly and save $1600+. The rooms themselves at Poly are nothing special and certainly smaller than WH. It's not even an option in my view - WH all the way.
lexie32
03-08-2008, 08:54 AM
We stayed at WH last year and visited the poly with a view to doing a split stay there this year, it was very well themed but seemed very busy and not relaxing like WH and to be honest we like to get away from all the crouds when we decide to take a break. Well we decided to save our money and stay at WH again this year and use some of the money we have saved on a couple of taxi trips so dh and i can go and have a couple of meals and a bottle of wine without having to drive!!
Alex
Reflection
03-08-2008, 02:43 PM
I definitely recommend the Poly. Although, I have never stayed at Windsor. We stayed at the Poly two years ago and haven't been anywhere else since. We love the convenience of the monorail. You can't beat it when it comes to having little ones. Ten minutes back to the hotel, take a break, hop on it again. Otherwise, you'd be stuck in the park or have to lug everybody back to the car, drive to the hotel. By the time you get there, everybody's probably asleep in the car, and they're ready to go again, no "rest" time at the hotel. Definitely would take 45 minutes to an hour to go back to the hotel, sure beats 5-10 and walk straight up to your room. I'm partial, we love, love the Poly!
Depending on the location of the offsite accomodation, this is certainly not true. There are many offsite locations that are closer in driving time--door to door--than many WDW onsite accomodations. I have not stayed at the Polynesian but have stayed at the Grand Floridian and have waited more than 10 minutes for the monorail or boat.
Brian Noble
03-08-2008, 02:52 PM
That's true. I can leave my hose at Windsor Hills at 8:10, and be in the MK Entry Plaza in time for the opening show at 8:48. So, it's less than 40 minutes.
The Poly is closer, though, even door-to-door time. I'd guess worst-case is about 20 minutes---10 waiting for the monorail, and 10 transit.
Lucky'sMom
03-08-2008, 07:43 PM
If you can afford it, stay at the Poly. I have stayed both on-site and off many times. I am all for the larger accommodations at a lower price off-site. However...this is your first trip. Your children are little. There is a "magical" feeling to staying on-site. We stayed at the Poly when my kids were 1, 3 and 5. It was a special trip. The monorail is just so convenient with the little ones, and makes it so easy to take a stroller straight from your room to the MK. Concerning the luau, most people do not feel it was worth the $, and I don't think your children will enjoy it that much. Your money is better spent at Chef Mickeys a quick monorail ride away...:goodvibes (Please keep in mind that you posted this question on the "off-site" vacationers board. If you posted this same question on the Disney Resorts board, you would get overwhelming responses to stay at the Poly. Some people have very strong opinions to only stay on-site or only stay off-site. We enjoy both for different reasons.)
Kellydelly
03-08-2008, 10:38 PM
I'd stay offsite! With kids those ages, you will SOOOOOOOOOOOO appreciate the space to spread out and not be on top of each other in a hotel room. I have taken my four young children to Orlando 4 times and we rented a private pool home each time. My kids love having their own pool :cool1: !
Brian Noble
03-08-2008, 10:58 PM
My kids have only three requirements of any Disney-area lodging:
1: It must have a pool.
2: The pool must have water.
3: The water must be wet.
Anyplace that meets those three conditions is okay by them. ;)
stepnut
03-09-2008, 10:09 AM
My kids have only three requirements of any Disney-area lodging:
1: It must have a pool.
2: The pool must have water.
3: The water must be wet.
Anyplace that meets those three conditions is okay by them. ;)
I'd add a 4th: The wet pool water must be clean!
:)
snowbunny
03-09-2008, 10:30 AM
I don't know about the rest but there's no time to fall asleep between the parks and WH. We went in low season, but we could be to the parks in literally 5 minutes.
Sorry but that is a wild exaggeration. I've stayed at Windsor Hills and although you may reach Disney property in 5 minutes, there is no way to be "to the parks" in 5 minutes. It takes longer than that just to ride the tram from the parking lot.
To the OP: Windsor Hills is a very nice offsite development and we had a nice time there. The resort pool is beautiful - but in high season (when we stayed at WH), it's packed. There is no lifeguard at the resort pool. It is also a long walk (or short drive) from many of the units to the clubhouse. Windsor Hills is a big community and IMO does not have the same magic as being onsite. Others may disagree but that's why there is a variety of choices.
kathie859
03-09-2008, 11:03 AM
1) space to spread out (thinking of the kids for some "downtime"--touring WDW is exhausting especially with short legs) WH wins
2) ability to eat a breakfast before attacking the parks--saves time AND money--again WH wins
3) I can't imagine anything more tiresome than WDW transportation with 3 children--easier to tote a double stroller in a car, arrive early, park close and walk to entrance (this works well everywhere BUT MK)
4) How many "sit down" meals can your tribe stand per day? AND how much time are you willing to spend eating (including waiting/actual eating). How long CAN your kids sit quietly?
One other thought--I actually like the condos (cheaper than a house) and use the resort zero entry pool for the little ones.
Only you know your family's tolerances--I'm sure you'll make the best decision for them. Have a great vacation:wizard:
By the way, I'd go for the cheaper condo--go for more days (4 really isn't nearly enough), plan a few meals in the condo to help pay for the additional days admission and have a bang-up trip!:flower3:
lindsmom
03-09-2008, 11:15 AM
We're staying off property when we go next month. I would LOVE to stay at Poly or AKL but I think maybe just DH and I will go back for an anniversary.
We chose off property (cypress harbour) because:
1. two bedroom unit, our daughter (6) can go to bed while we stay up and not have to tiptoe around in the same room.
2. Kitchenette so we have the option of preparing meals.
3. Cost! I just couldn't justify doubling the cost (give or take) to stay on property - the savings could go toward extra days (as others have mentioned) or a rental car - based on what I'm reading, it's easier to have the car if you're going to be visiting many parks and / or hopping, especially with 3 kids loading and unloading buses etc.
Lastly, we doubt our daughter will remember that she stayed at Cypress Harbour rather than, say, Poly, when she's grown up. She'll remember breakfast @ Cinderella's castle (hopefully!) and going on lots of rides. And we'll show her the pictures to remind her. Heck, she can't even remember what she did in school the same day! :confused3
If your kids were teenagers, I'd say go for the deluxe and stay @ Poly. Then again, only you know what would work best for your family.
Oh, and it's just ME but I would be obsessing about the extra grand on the room and having less fun because of it. :eek: I KNOW, you're not supposed to. But that's the way I am.
Good Luck and remember to have FUN regardless of where you sleep! :hippie:
Brian Noble
03-09-2008, 12:20 PM
I'd add a 4th: The wet pool water must be clean!
That might be my requirement, but the kids do not care.
kerry331
03-09-2008, 07:05 PM
Well my husband is hell bent on staying inside the park, it's his first time too. We are going to do 5 nights....everyone and their brother is telling me to stay inside the park for that 'magical' first time feeling, for my kids....you can see cinderella's castle from the resort, also the fireworks. I think because my kids are so little it would make sense to stay at the poly , the transportation from here to there , very fast and very convenient.
I think when we go back for our second trip, (in a few years) we'll more than likely spend more time in FL. We'll go for the condo, because I am 10 weeks pregnant right now with baby #4, so - we will kinda have to stay at a condo or suite.
I do think WH looks beautiful, but , again, after long discussions with my hubby - he really rather stay inside the park. I am sure I am missing out on a great resort...I am just guessing with a short trip we won't be in the room much anyway, except to shower and sleep!!!
Thanks-
Kerry
littlestar
03-09-2008, 07:16 PM
We're staying off property when we go next month. I would LOVE to stay at Poly or AKL but I think maybe just DH and I will go back for an anniversary.
We chose off property (cypress harbour) because:
1. two bedroom unit, our daughter (6) can go to bed while we stay up and not have to tiptoe around in the same room.
2. Kitchenette so we have the option of preparing meals.
3. Cost! I just couldn't justify doubling the cost (give or take) to stay on property - the savings could go toward extra days (as others have mentioned) or a rental car - based on what I'm reading, it's easier to have the car if you're going to be visiting many parks and / or hopping, especially with 3 kids loading and unloading buses etc.
Lastly, we doubt our daughter will remember that she stayed at Cypress Harbour rather than, say, Poly, when she's grown up. She'll remember breakfast @ Cinderella's castle (hopefully!) and going on lots of rides. And we'll show her the pictures to remind her. Heck, she can't even remember what she did in school the same day! :confused3
You'll love Marriott Vacation Club's Cypress Harbour. We just got back and it's fantastic - reminds me of the Sheraton on Kauai. Beautiful grounds, activities - Polynesian show, etc., and wonderful units (we could see Seaworld fireworks from our balcony).
To the original poster - I'd go for more space over the Poly (especially for that price). Nothing like being able to put the kids down for bed and have some privacy for the adults. You can't do that in a cramped hotel room.
TotoToo
03-09-2008, 07:46 PM
Well my husband is hell bent on staying inside the park, it's his first time too. We are going to do 5 nights....everyone and their brother is telling me to stay inside the park for that 'magical' first time feeling, for my kids....you can see cinderella's castle from the resort, also the fireworks. I think because my kids are so little it would make sense to stay at the poly , the transportation from here to there , very fast and very convenient.
I think when we go back for our second trip, (in a few years) we'll more than likely spend more time in FL. We'll go for the condo, because I am 10 weeks pregnant right now with baby #4, so - we will kinda have to stay at a condo or suite.
I do think WH looks beautiful, but , again, after long discussions with my hubby - he really rather stay inside the park. I am sure I am missing out on a great resort...I am just guessing with a short trip we won't be in the room much anyway, except to shower and sleep!!!
Thanks-
Kerry
Well, it's worth doing once as an expensive lesson. Next time be sure to do offsite and most likely you'll never want to do on site again. But that way you can say you tried both and XXXXX is the best for you. No questions after that.
murcor
03-09-2008, 08:08 PM
1)
3) I can't imagine anything more tiresome than WDW transportation with 3 children--easier to tote a double stroller in a car, arrive early, park close and walk to entrance (this works well everywhere BUT MK)
Personally, I love the WDW transportation. I cant ever imagine renting a car, leaving the airport and finding my resort, finding the parks, restaurants......
I love to step out of my room jump on the monorail or bus and go directly to my destination :)
MiaSRN62
03-09-2008, 08:21 PM
No doubt you'll get much larger accomodations for a much less price at WH. I've never stayed there, but they do look nice. No debating that.
But that said, considering the ages of your children, and guessing they'll want to spend most of their time in the MK, I don't think you can beat the Poly for convenience and themeing. This is your first trip and it's only 4 nights....you'll want to maximize your park and fun time. The kids can have fun on the beach at the Poly (can't swim in the lake though)....while you sit out in a hammock. The pool there is themed like a volcano---you climb up and slide down through the volcano. At night, you don't even have to be in the MK to enjoy the fireworks. You'll see & hear them right there on the beach. Also, every night around 9:00--9:15 pm, the Electric Water Pagent water parade goes around the lake, right past the Contemporary, Poly, WL, FT WIlderness and GF : http://allearsnet.com/tp/ewp.htm (it's a small parade, but your kids will love it).
Taking the monorail from the Poly directly into the MK beats having to drive there, park in the Ticket and Transportation Center parking lot, wait for a tram, then take the monorail or Ferry over to the park any day. This is coming from someone who stays both on and offsite. It can take 30-45 min from the second you pass through the MK parking lot entrance until you actually get into the MK park when you stay offsite. If you stay until the park closes, it can take 45 min to an HOUR to get out (been there done that). Guest staying at the MK resorts, jump right on the short line for the monorail back to their resort, while the offsite guests are herded like cattle sometimes, back to the MK parking lot. IF you do decide to go with WH (and nothing wrong with that), just make sure you leave the MK at least one hour before the firework show or it will take you a good amount of time to get out through the crowds.
The Poly rooms are larger than other "deluxe" category rooms such as the Beach Club, Yacht CLub etc. They are about 409 sq feet (I know...no comparison to WH size), but you have to factor in the onsite perks/ambience etc. You factor in being able to enter the parks 1 hour before offsite guests, and that's a couple extra spins on Dumbo, Peter Pan and Pooh before the crowds start coming in. The evening EMH's tend to be more crowded, but the morning ones can be life savers to saving time in line with little ones.
MY tip : IF you stay at the Poly, request a room with a balcony. Not every room at the Poly has one, though most do. But I would make this my #1 request.
Good luck with your decision....it's a tough one....these are two very different options and vacation experiences.
Reflection
03-09-2008, 08:25 PM
Well my husband is hell bent on staying inside the park, it's his first time too. We are going to do 5 nights....everyone and their brother is telling me to stay inside the park for that 'magical' first time feeling, for my kids....you can see cinderella's castle from the resort, also the fireworks. I think because my kids are so little it would make sense to stay at the poly , the transportation from here to there , very fast and very convenient.
I think when we go back for our second trip, (in a few years) we'll more than likely spend more time in FL. We'll go for the condo, because I am 10 weeks pregnant right now with baby #4, so - we will kinda have to stay at a condo or suite.
I do think WH looks beautiful, but , again, after long discussions with my hubby - he really rather stay inside the park. I am sure I am missing out on a great resort...I am just guessing with a short trip we won't be in the room much anyway, except to shower and sleep!!!
Thanks-
Kerry
OP, have a wonderful time on your vacation. Regardless of where folks fall on the onsite/offsite discussion, I think we can all agree, this visit will probably not be your last.:thumbsup2
MiaSRN62
03-09-2008, 08:25 PM
TotoToo says : Next time be sure to do offsite and most likely you'll never want to do on site again.
Respectfully, we have done both for many years and continue to prefer onsite for the ambience, perks (transportation/ME, package delivery, EMH) etc. It's a very subjective/personal decision as to what someone prefers in a vacation experience. Everyone is looking for something different and only they can figure out what is right for them.
kerry331
03-09-2008, 08:41 PM
Honestly, either way we are going to have a great time. My kids will not want to hang out at the Poly too much, i can assure you !! They will want to be in the parks the whole time!! And again, for a shorter stay, it probably makes sense to stay on site. If my kids were older, maybe they would have more patience for the transportation situation, but for now, I would like to do what is easiest, most convenient for them...it's their first real vacation. I honestly do not know what to expect!!
We are going over mother's day weekend and very excited!!!
I would definitely be interested in staying at WH in the future, when the kids are a bit older!
Thank you for the electric water pagent info!!!
kerry34
03-10-2008, 08:06 AM
OP, you will definately have a great time. We have stayed at both the Poly and at Windsor Hills, and have enjoyed them both respectively for what they have to offer. Two distinct experiences, same outcome in the end. Now that you have decided to stay at the Poly take a walk around the grounds at night, it is very peaceful. Also watching the MK fireworks from the pool is something that my kids thought was just great. The beds at the Poly are to die for also. The only downside to that is everybody in my group at a very tough time getting up in the morning. We plan on staying again someday, but we have a large family (5 kids) which required two rooms and a very large sum of money. We kinda went all out though as it was a christmas trip and stayed 8 nights with the dining plan, so it was costly needless to say, but it was a trip that my family still talks about and very magical. You will not be let down I am sure. Maybe if you decide to go again you can stay offsite and then decide what you like better, at least you will have an excuse to go back again!!
katie111
03-10-2008, 11:18 AM
We've done both offsite (once) & onsite (twice) with our 3 little ones & both definitely have their pros & cons. One thing that I will add though is that you may spend more time at your hotel than you think. My kids absolutely loved spending time in the pools. It was their downtime & honestly it was when they were happiest. The parks can be a little overwhelming for young kids and just being able to splash around in the pools was great for them. We actually skipped our last day at the parks on our last trip even though we had a length of stay pass because the kids begged us to just stay at the hotel for the day. They did a craft with the staff ( I think they do this at all the deluxe resorts) and spent the rest of the day at the pool. It was a great end to the trip. Have a great trip and just don't try to do it all! The Poly is actually next on our list to stay at.
snowbunny
03-11-2008, 04:59 AM
OP, I think you made a great decision for your first trip. Taking the monorail to the parks is much easier and more fun than driving, parking, and tramming. The landscaping and overall presentation at the deluxe resorts is just not the same offsite (my opinion). You will be right in the middle of the magic. :thumbsup2
WDW4mom
03-11-2008, 02:46 PM
I have not stayed at the Poly, although I have been there for dinner and it is very nice. I have stayed at the All Star Resorts (all three), when I have gone with the family. When I went with a friend we stayed at the Boardwork, Animal Kingdom and Coronado Springs. I stayed off site at the beginning of my first trip there and it was a hassle just to get to WDW for our stay there. I think that there is nothing like the convenience of being on-site, especially if you have young ones. When I went with my daughter we would do the park in the morning, go back to the resort to swim or let the youngest one take a nap and then we would go back to the park with the extra magic hours late afternoon or early evening. WDW transportation to and from the resorts is well worth paying extra to stay there. The kids loved the All Star Resorts and that is definitely the most economical for a family.
MikeKV
03-11-2008, 07:30 PM
1) space to spread out (thinking of the kids for some "downtime"--touring WDW is exhausting especially with short legs) WH wins
2) ability to eat a breakfast before attacking the parks--saves time AND money--again WH wins
3) I can't imagine anything more tiresome than WDW transportation with 3 children--easier to tote a double stroller in a car, arrive early, park close and walk to entrance (this works well everywhere BUT MK)
4) How many "sit down" meals can your tribe stand per day? AND how much time are you willing to spend eating (including waiting/actual eating). How long CAN your kids sit quietly?
One other thought--I actually like the condos (cheaper than a house) and use the resort zero entry pool for the little ones.
Only you know your family's tolerances--I'm sure you'll make the best decision for them. Have a great vacation:wizard:
By the way, I'd go for the cheaper condo--go for more days (4 really isn't nearly enough), plan a few meals in the condo to help pay for the additional days admission and have a bang-up trip!:flower3:
I have to disagree with you as far as a condo being cheaper. My family of DW, DD5 and I are renting a townhome at WH from 4/25 - 5/3 (9 days) for $800. Can you find a condo, for 9 days, its own pool, and equal space for $800?
mikymouse
03-12-2008, 09:03 AM
Oh, and i have to ask, if you have been- is the Luau dinner at the Poly really good? I am bummed b/c the travel agent told us she couldn't get us to the show during our stay! I really wanted to see this.. Does it make sense to rebook the week we are going to see this show???
Thank you in advance for your responses,
Kerry in NJ
Hi Kerry, We just got back from our vacation and we stayed at a wonderful Windsor Hills Townhome. We did the luau dinner at the Poly for my daughter's birthday and it was a lot of fun and I thought it was the 2nd best meal of the trip and we all enjoyed the show. I would recommend the luau and especially if you are staying at the Poly it would just add to the experience. Honestly for our family, the money we saved by staying off site paid for some experiences that I thought were totally worth it... the luau, BBB for my daughter birthday, Breakfast at CRT... all these things would not have been in the budget if we stayed on-site. We ended up staying on-site for our last two days due to our flights being cancelled and there is NO WAY I would sign up for a small hotel room with 3 kids... they were driving me crazy in that small space... it forces you out to spend money in the arcades or parks or whereever.
3kidsfordis
03-13-2008, 09:45 PM
I've stayed off-site once and on-site twice. My 1st trip with DH and 1 kid was at All-Stars. Next trip DH, 3 kids and my mother. We stayed at the Poly with lagoon view and concierge. It was very nice and very convenient with a double stroller and an elderly person. Watching the fireworks from the balcony and the water pageant was great!
However, now our group would need more than one room at the Poly, so last year we stayed at Marriot's Horizons. We liked the space, the room and the pool better than the Poly. Didn't miss the Disney feel and in fact enjoyed exploring more of Orlando and eating off-site. We are returning this year to Horizons. Didn't even consider staying on-site.
With that being said, I think that if your husband wants to stay on-site, the Poly is the way to go. You can take a small boat over to the MK or ride the monorail. My DH is a boat fanatic so this made the whole trip enjoyable for him. Once your group is too large for a single hotel room, try off-site. Maybe do a split stay some time and try Sea World etc. You'll be the only one to decide if on on-site or off-site works for you. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. While off-site works for us now on-site might be better on a future vacation.
PrincessBelle39
03-14-2008, 09:22 PM
I haven't stayed onsite at WDW but after staying at Windsor Hills I would never go back to a hotel room with children, particularly small children. The space and separate bedrooms were the best things about the trip. Not having to sit in the bathroom while the kids slept, not tripping over kids and suitcases, being able to have some downtime with the private pool. We didn't miss any of the magic. And apart from the Magic Kingdom, it didn't take long to get to the parks at all. Even Magic Kingdom was only 40minutes from villa to gate for us.
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