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View Full Version : Slowing down FastPass Counterfeiters


rodkenrich
02-22-2008, 07:04 AM
,

boomhauer
02-22-2008, 07:32 AM
Of course, Disney could also pay attention to the emails they get tipping them off of these fastpass scam artists on ebay and get the auctions shut down.

I'll believe any of this when I see that stop.

FTR - I think Disney turning these guests away is the right thing to do. If someone is stupid enough to buy fastpasses on ebay, that's their problem. Common sense tells you, this is not something that is supposed to be done. I've gotten into arguements with sellers on ebay selling fastpasses before. It's always the same answer - "What do you care?" That article sums it up perfectly in one paragraph:

But the downside of allowing this to happen is that these people who actually use counterfeit FastPasses are throwing off Disney's delicately calibrated virtual queuing system. More to the point, these FastPass cheats are making that much more difficult for the folks who are patiently waiting in the Stand By line to finally experience their favorite Disney rides, shows and attractions.

jayandstacey
02-22-2008, 07:33 AM
The barcode is the way to go.

Have a barcode created on the fastpass at the time of issuance. It can have the date/time info as well as security codes that were created that day (or even that minute, like a keyFOB). Then have scanners at the fastpass entrances, and maybe a live person to handle questions.

Barcodes are reliable, efficient and relatively counterfeit proof. And the entrance scanners won't cost too much.

boomhauer
02-22-2008, 07:40 AM
The barcode is the way to go.

Have a barcode created on the fastpass at the time of issuance. It can have the date/time info as well as security codes that were created that day (or even that minute, like a keyFOB). Then have scanners at the fastpass entrances, and maybe a live person to handle questions.

Barcodes are reliable, efficient and relatively counterfeit proof. And the entrance scanners won't cost too much.

Problem is, it would create bottlenecks at fastpass lines and thus create longer wait times for everybody. Personally, I'd take that as a tradeoff to all these people selling them on ebay. The people buying them are just fools. The people selling them are scum.

BabyPiglet
02-22-2008, 07:41 AM
Ahh, Jim Hill. Always reliable. ;)

Anyways, I think they should at least TRY to weed out the people who abuse it. Not like, people trying to use their fastpass after the window. But people who actually print out and sell fake fastpasses, etc.

boomhauer
02-22-2008, 07:43 AM
Anyways, I think they should at least TRY to weed out the people who abuse it. Not like, people trying to use their fastpass after the window. But people who actually print out and sell fake fastpasses, etc.

They don't. Look right now on ebay. There's at least a few auctions selling these. How easy would it be for Disney to stop this? They don't do a thing about it.

BabyPiglet
02-22-2008, 07:44 AM
They don't. Look right now on ebay. There's at least a few auctions selling these. How easy would it be for Disney to stop this? They don't do a thing about it.
I understand that. That's why I said "They should atleast TRY to weed out the people who abuse it."

Robo
02-22-2008, 08:10 AM
The barcode is the way to go.

Have a barcode created on the fastpass at the time of issuance. It can have the date/time info as well as security codes that were created that day (or even that minute, like a keyFOB). Then have scanners at the fastpass entrances, and maybe a live person to handle questions.

Barcodes are reliable, efficient and relatively counterfeit proof. And the entrance scanners won't cost too much.

All the new FP at WDW already have a barcode.

Luv4Disney
02-22-2008, 09:45 AM
Not to say it doesn't happen, but Jim Hill? Again? HAHAHAHAHA! :rotfl:

SGMCO
02-22-2008, 09:48 AM
They don't. Look right now on ebay. There's at least a few auctions selling these. How easy would it be for Disney to stop this? They don't do a thing about it.

This could be brought to the attention of Ebay( Reported)
Ebay will then check it out and are not pleased with
fraudulent practices.

wildeoscar
02-22-2008, 09:51 AM
All the new FP at WDW already have a barcode.

and a scanner at the fast pass return, to zap the passes for validity would not take that long.

KittieKat
02-22-2008, 10:00 AM
this is such a scam!!

look at this ebay buy...
http://cgi.ebay.com/33-Walt-Disney-World-Fast-Pass-Passes-Fastpass-Tickets_W0QQitemZ200201079331QQihZ010QQcategoryZ16 071QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That person wants $150 for a park map (that is absolutely free) and old fastpasses (also free).

The crazy part is that their are 6 bids on this offer. How ridiculous! Do these people think this is a good deal? Or are they just plain stupid?

SnwflkCts
02-22-2008, 10:02 AM
I really didn't know what fast pass was before I went to WDW (well I HAD found the DIS boards so I knew a little) -- just wondering if you think the people buying them on Ebay know that they are getting counterfeit items? I'm pretty gullible -- but cheap so if it involved alot of money I would tend to be skeptical! Just wondering what you think or if you believe innocent people get scammed?

Of course NOW people will try to cut the fake ones with serrated edges! :laughing:

Interesting topic ....

KittieCat was posting at the same time I was ... she kind of asks the same question... sad about the scammers! I looked at that Ebay listing - how sad ... I felt like sending the seller a message but I don't want to get into something bad! Her fastpasses apparently are real ones they couldn't use & she/he sort of says how you might (or might not) be able to use them. Bleh -- people sure can be disappointing at times. :sad:

borgthe
02-22-2008, 10:10 AM
HOLY MOLY! So I went to ebay completed items to see what people are paying for fast passes. 10 fast passes for $125. OMG. This is CRAZY!

CarolA
02-22-2008, 10:39 AM
The next time you use as a FastPass at a Disney theme park, pay close attention to what the cast member does once you walk up to that FastPass Return entrance.

Why? Because Jim Hill says it? That probably means NO basis in fact!:lmao:

What Disney really needs to look for is a way to shut him up! He is the reason I no longer advice buying the "Unofficial Guide" WHy pay extra for "things JIm made up????"

boomhauer
02-22-2008, 10:50 AM
HOLY MOLY! So I went to ebay completed items to see what people are paying for fast passes. 10 fast passes for $125. OMG. This is CRAZY!

No - What's amazing is this has been going on for years and neither Disney nor ebay (both who are WELL aware of it) do nothing to stop it. Ebay, yeah - Doesn't surprise me. I use ebay but when it comes to caveat emptor, that phrase could be given a whole new light in regards to ebay. Disney's neglect of this has always bewildered me. I've always seen it as a slap in the face to those of us who play by the rules. We all get limited vacation time with our families, and because of people like this (seller and buyer), we're spending more time in line instead of enjoying the attractions which we spent so much money to experience.

Should we be mad at Disney for doing nothing? ABSOLUTELY!

bumbershoot
02-22-2008, 11:15 AM
this is such a scam!!

look at this ebay buy...
http://cgi.ebay.com/33-Walt-Disney-World-Fast-Pass-Passes-Fastpass-Tickets_W0QQitemZ200201079331QQihZ010QQcategoryZ16 071QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That person wants $150 for a park map (that is absolutely free) and old fastpasses (also free).

The crazy part is that their are 6 bids on this offer. How ridiculous! Do these people think this is a good deal? Or are they just plain stupid?

FWIW, that's just the buy it now price, and the actual bids are hidden. But there could be a collector's value aspect with the now defunct map, and I do know of many people who collect FPs. (like I do, but I only keep them for rides I've been on and I wouldn't pay...but others do!)

SueM in MN
02-22-2008, 03:18 PM
I really didn't know what fast pass was before I went to WDW (well I HAD found the DIS boards so I knew a little) -- just wondering if you think the people buying them on Ebay know that they are getting counterfeit items? I'm pretty gullible -- but cheap so if it involved alot of money I would tend to be skeptical! Just wondering what you think or if you believe innocent people get scammed?

Of course NOW people will try to cut the fake ones with serrated edges! :laughing:

Interesting topic ....

KittieCat was posting at the same time I was ... she kind of asks the same question... sad about the scammers! I looked at that Ebay listing - how sad ... I felt like sending the seller a message but I don't want to get into something bad! Her fastpasses apparently are real ones they couldn't use & she/he sort of says how you might (or might not) be able to use them. Bleh -- people sure can be disappointing at times. :sad:
I would not try to email the seller - they will have a way to contact you and someone selling fake fastpasses is probably not going to be too happy with you contacting them.

This is the information I got from Disney when I emailed and asked who to report things like this to:
email address (tips@disneyantipiracy.com) or Antipiracy voice mail hotline, 818-560-3300

Antipiracy Group, Corporate Legal
The Walt Disney Company
500 South Buena Vista Street
Burbank, California 91521-0527

I have reported some to ebay in the past and nothing happened. When I reported them to Disney, the auction did end with a message that it was 'ended early'.

wildeoscar
02-22-2008, 03:44 PM
what does Jim Hill have to do with the Unofficial Guide?

mickeyluv'r
02-22-2008, 03:52 PM
Not to say it doesn't happen, but Jim Hill? Again? HAHAHAHAHA! :rotfl:


:) Yeah - because Jim Hill is SO reliable!

Still waiting on that Space Mountain refurb that was certain to happen about five years ago.....pirate:

Jalva22
02-22-2008, 04:02 PM
what does Jim Hill have to do with the Unofficial Guide?

He contributes "behind the scenes" info boxes that appear on various attractions throughout the book. Has done so since at least the 2005 edition.

mom2mykids
02-22-2008, 04:08 PM
I once saw an auction that wasn't an auction....it was the person trying to let people know that something was a rip off. I wonder if making a listing under wdw fast pass then state that FP's are only good for the day they are printed. I noticed in that auction link they don't show the date, slimy booger!

wildeoscar
02-22-2008, 04:09 PM
He contributes "behind the scenes" info boxes that appear on various attractions throughout the book. Has done so since at least the 2005 edition.

I'll dig out my copy here in a while and check it out, I never noticed.

Jalva22
02-22-2008, 04:11 PM
I'm in agreement that something needs to be done about the ebay scammers, but not because of any effect on lines in the park. I think they're taking advantage of people who don't know much about WDW and bilking them out of dollars better spent elsewhere in their vacation.

From reading several past threads on people using fastpasses after their return window expired (though same day), I have seen many credible arguments, with numbers to back them up, that show the number used late doesn't have a significant impact on standby wait times. I can't believe there's very many people running around the parks on any given day with ebay'd fastpasses. Certainly there are nowhere near as many holding ebay'd passes as there are those holding 'expired' same-day passes. If the late same-day users have little impact on wait times, the ebay buyers can't possibly have any effect at all. JMHO

Jalva22
02-22-2008, 04:16 PM
I would not try to email the seller - they will have a way to contact you and someone selling fake fastpasses is probably not going to be too happy with you contacting them.

This is the information I got from Disney when I emailed and asked who to report things like this to:
email address (tips@disneyantipiracy.com) or Antipiracy voice mail hotline, 818-560-3300

Antipiracy Group, Corporate Legal
The Walt Disney Company
500 South Buena Vista Street
Burbank, California 91521-0527

I have reported some to ebay in the past and nothing happened. When I reported them to Disney, the auction did end with a message that it was 'ended early'.

Thanks for this post! Good to know there's a way to put a stop to this practice!

Just reported my first one via the email address you listed!

boomhauer
02-22-2008, 05:05 PM
Thanks for this post! Good to know there's a way to put a stop to this practice!

Just reported my first one via the email address you listed!

I applaud you for doing so, but rest assured, nothing will happen. Don't get me wrong - I think everyone should notify Disney and inspire them to get off their lazy collective butts and do something. It just won't happen.

ang
02-22-2008, 05:30 PM
I had to go look on ebay! Can't believe people fall for that. It's just unbelievable...

Disney1976
02-22-2008, 05:50 PM
Of course, the sellers are "smart" (or dirty) enough to keep the potential buyer id's private-so that someone who comes along to try and warn these bidders that it's a scam can't.

jak07
02-22-2008, 07:07 PM
Ok...are you saying that you CAN'T or you are not supposed to use your fastpass after your window, but on the same day? Like if your time was between 4:15-5:00 and you come back at 5:30? Are you saying you cannot do that? I have had numerous CM tell me we could "come late, but not early".

Everytime we get a FP and the CM is standing there, we ask and they always have said we could come back after the time if we needed.:confused3

Jalva22
02-22-2008, 08:11 PM
Ok...are you saying that you CAN'T or you are not supposed to use your fastpass after your window, but on the same day? Like if your time was between 4:15-5:00 and you come back at 5:30? Are you saying you cannot do that? I have had numerous CM tell me we could "come late, but not early".

Everytime we get a FP and the CM is standing there, we ask and they always have said we could come back after the time if we needed.:confused3

I don't believe that's what the gist of this thread has been about. From numerous sources posting on this board in the past, however, my take is that it's Disney's training policy for CM's to allow late same-day returns. In general, Disney doesn't seem to mind. However, they do leave it up to the CM's discretion. So, if you're turned away while trying to use a late same-day fastpass, the guest has no grounds whatsoever to hassle the CM about it. 95% of the time, though, they'll let you use it. The main exception I hear about is on Soarin, but even there you'll be allowed to use it late much more often than not.

mariacj
02-22-2008, 09:19 PM
:rotfl: I just had myself a good laugh....

One bid was for 500 but it was for a white envelope... not the tickets... the fastpasses and "VIP pass" were extra bonuses.

Another thing made me laugh... you could use the VIP Pass at attractions with no fast pass lane and go through a special VIP entrance! I am sorry but this is not Universal Studios (Although I kinda like that perk there... the one in Hollywood sometimes needs it).

The comment about using a Fast pass from December 2007 still being used! Okay let me wip out my August 2006 ones.

I am sorry but Ebay has changed so much. Although lots of good has come of it. My mom has actually bought tons of Horse Gear and I movies that are hard to come buy at good prices. I am also looking tp start pin trading but am wary of buying through Ebay because of fakes. I am just going to convince DF to let me spend the money at the world!

vegas_mickey
02-22-2008, 09:33 PM
I am not to sure about the accuracy of Jim Hill's post because he said that CM's are feeling the top for the perferations that shoud supposedly be there. I have a few fast passes left over from our most recent trip and they are crisp and clean on all four edges. The machines spit them out, you don't tear them off like prize tickets at a skee ball game. It makes me wonder if the poster who said Jim makes things up is right.:confused3

CarolA
02-22-2008, 09:40 PM
He contributes "behind the scenes" info boxes that appear on various attractions throughout the book. Has done so since at least the 2005 edition.


and the boxes are full of bad data


From the last version I bought

1. Voyage of the Little Mermaid would close because Disney won't have a Broadway Show and a Theme Park show based on the same movie (Also the reason he gave for Tarzan closing) SHH..... Don't tell the executives about Lion King or Beauty and the Beast. They haven't noticed (And the Headline on this GEM.. "HAVE I EVER BEEN WRONG, AT LEAST WHEN IT COUNTED" :rotfl2: :rotfl2:

2. COP is closing (an annual event for Jim) In that version we were going to get an Incredibles Themed roller coaster. (No telling what this year's version is?)

3. There were going to be Halloween Horror Nights at MGM. (This was two years ago. I guess only Jim got invited)

4. Journey Into Imagination would close in 2007 and re-open in 2008 with all new stuff (Did I miss something?)


5. Illuminations was getting a new ending for the 25th Anniversary of Epcot. (They did a one time event, but Jim wasn't talking about that)

4. Buzz Lightyear was being upgraded to have the interactive features that the CA version has

His other tidbits are useless info. The UG is HUGE, costs a lot and should be ashamed of including "Facts" like this in what is SUPPOSE to be guidebook, not a novel!

Flametamr
02-22-2008, 09:41 PM
Its sad that theres always some guy trying to make a quick living off of others. And its even sadder that there are so called honest people buying these fakes knowing they are cheating the system. Im sure they feel its a harmless thing until they meet someone who lost thier money being ripped off by these crooks.

StephSalyer
02-22-2008, 10:14 PM
What is going on at WDW? First a thread on people scamming EMH wristbands and now fake FP? I must be extremely dense or something, I would never even think of such a thing............. What are these people teaching thier children? Scary.......even WDW isn't immune to the scammers of our society. What a shame!!!! "Get what you can out of it kids, it doesn't matter if you lie, cheat, steal, step on those going to wake Tink, stand in front of people that have waited 30 minutes in a spot for a parade, push those in front of you out of thet way when you want to see a character, steal whatever you want out of the stores because they won't confront you, use a mug from 7-11 at the beverage stations at the resorts. After all we PAID big money to be here today". Ugh! No wonder the news is so depressing every night.

OK, off my soapbox now. I love WDW, I just don't like some of the people visiting there. :upsidedow

Cannot_Wait_4Disney
02-22-2008, 10:47 PM
His other tidbits are useless info. The UG is HUGE, costs a lot and should be ashamed of including "Facts" like this in what is SUPPOSE to be guidebook, not a novel!


Um. The UG is a guide book. The 2008 version is listed at $18.99 USD though the price varies by retailer. That's not a lot of money, particularly compared to the average cost of a Disney Trip. It's not a lot of money compared to other resources of its type and is one of the best sources of info, if not the best out there. It is huge but it is organized by topic so if you don't need hotel info and the like, you can skip that entire section. Or, you can thumb right to the resort you're interested in and it will give you what rooms have particular views.
As far as the tidbits themselves are concerned, in the version I have, the tidbits are boxed, labeled as to Jim Hill being the source, and are thus easily skipped. They also make up maybe 1% of the thing at most.

Cannot_Wait_4Disney
02-22-2008, 11:14 PM
What is going on at WDW? First a thread on people scamming EMH wristbands and now fake FP? I must be extremely dense or something, I would never even think of such a thing............. What are these people teaching thier children? Scary.......even WDW isn't immune to the scammers of our society. What a shame!!!! "Get what you can out of it kids, it doesn't matter if you lie, cheat, steal, step on those going to wake Tink, stand in front of people that have waited 30 minutes in a spot for a parade, push those in front of you out of thet way when you want to see a character, steal whatever you want out of the stores because they won't confront you, use a mug from 7-11 at the beverage stations at the resorts. After all we PAID big money to be here today". Ugh! No wonder the news is so depressing every night.

OK, off my soapbox now. I love WDW, I just don't like some of the people visiting there. :upsidedow

Pretty bad behavior on the part of people these days. Sad that these days, you can't trust anyone because so many are out to put one over on someone else.

sajetto
02-23-2008, 12:02 AM
I am not to sure about the accuracy of Jim Hill's post because he said that CM's are feeling the top for the perferations that shoud supposedly be there. I have a few fast passes left over from our most recent trip and they are crisp and clean on all four edges. The machines spit them out, you don't tear them off like prize tickets at a skee ball game. It makes me wonder if the poster who said Jim makes things up is right.:confused3

I just checked some that I had thrown in an old fanny pack and they are smooth as well. :confused3

wlwilliams9
02-23-2008, 12:18 AM
:rotfl: I just had myself a good laugh....

One bid was for 500 but it was for a white envelope... not the tickets... the fastpasses and "VIP pass" were extra bonuses.

Another thing made me laugh... you could use the VIP Pass at attractions with no fast pass lane and go through a special VIP entrance! I am sorry but this is not Universal Studios (Although I kinda like that perk there... the one in Hollywood sometimes needs it).

The comment about using a Fast pass from December 2007 still being used! Okay let me wip out my August 2006 ones.

I am sorry but Ebay has changed so much. Although lots of good has come of it. My mom has actually bought tons of Horse Gear and I movies that are hard to come buy at good prices. I am also looking tp start pin trading but am wary of buying through Ebay because of fakes. I am just going to convince DF to let me spend the money at the world!

Unfortunatly, This auction is legit in ebay's eyes because it clearly states that up for auction is a white envelope. Having the fast passes as a free bonus allows this auction to remain. The seller also clearly states that these fast passes probably won't work.
I know that ebay is pretty strict about there sellers. My ex-sister-in-law was banned from ebay for selling fake North Face jackets. (she believed they were real even though she was getting them from Hong Kong for less than $20 bucks each)
Anyway, it is crazy that this happens, it's even crazier that there are bids on these auctions.

missesdisney
02-23-2008, 12:57 AM
What is going on at WDW? First a thread on people scamming EMH wristbands and now fake FP?


Where is that thread? I just read the article off the dis homepage about guests having to show resort ids for emh evening for a few days this month - I bet that is why.

About a year ago, we had our resort id's scanned to get our wristbands at ak emh - said it was research of course!

Quicklabs
02-23-2008, 06:15 AM
Wow! I had no idea that this even happened. So then, these people go to Disney and scoop up all the fast passes they can during the day only to sell "white envelopes" later? Why would anyone even buy these when you can get them for free at Disney?

Robo
02-23-2008, 06:32 AM
Why would anyone even buy these when you can get them for free at Disney?

1) FP can "run out" early in the day on certain popular attractions.

2) Guests must go to a given attraction to obtain a FP in the park.

3) Guests must then wait for 45-180 minutes (sometimes more on popular attractions) for their FP "window" to open.

4) Some guests have little knowledge of how the FP system works.

5) Some guests have more money than sense.

wildeoscar
02-23-2008, 06:35 AM
6) a fool and his money are all over eBay

StephSalyer
02-23-2008, 06:42 AM
Where is that thread? I just read the article off the dis homepage about guests having to show resort ids for emh evening for a few days this month - I bet that is why.

About a year ago, we had our resort id's scanned to get our wristbands at ak emh - said it was research of course!

Here is the thread - http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1730755 I am still disgusted by the whole thing. Some people are ruining my happiest place on earth.

Belladonna
02-23-2008, 06:53 AM
woa! I just looked on ebay, and its true! You can buy them!

I can't believe that A) Ebay doesn't ban the auctions abd B) people actually PAY money for these things. hahahaha!


I thought I remembered the tickets having dates on them.. right?

MisunderstoodLilo
02-23-2008, 07:02 AM
They don't. Look right now on ebay. There's at least a few auctions selling these. How easy would it be for Disney to stop this? They don't do a thing about it.

Once they stop the FastPass scandal...maybe they can stop Jim Hill? :rotfl: ;) :hippie: :rolleyes1

WEDway2002
02-23-2008, 07:13 AM
Problem is, it would create bottlenecks at fastpass lines and thus create longer wait times for everybody. Personally, I'd take that as a tradeoff to all these people selling them on ebay. The people buying them are just fools. The people selling them are scum.

Hear Hear!!!

People are amazing! :furious: I remember all too well how difficult it used to be to get ressies for CRT ...

"I hate people ... I abhor them ... " Ebenezer Scrooge

Well .... not all people, all the time ...
Just most of them, most of the time ... ;)

Dave

Robo
02-23-2008, 07:14 AM
I thought I remembered the tickets having dates on them.. right?

Some older ones I scanned, and some scans of newer FP I found here on the DIS.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c265/RoboWDW/Silly%20Stuff/FP-EE-150.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c265/RoboWDW/Silly%20Stuff/FPx3_Dec07.jpg

bleeps
02-23-2008, 07:40 AM
I think Disney could do a couple of simple things to (1) help first-time guests learn the ropes and (2) end (or at least slow) the scamming.

Right on the WDW site itself, they could clearly explain the Fast pass system and put in bold that only fast passes obtained in the park, on the day are valid, and that guests attempting to use fast passes purchased or obtained elsewhere will be ejected from the park. I did a search on "fast pass" at the WDW site and got NO relevant link returned; I also looked through their FAQs and found nothing. It should be there -- a description of the program to help explain the system. They should also include in their planning DVDs, where they DO demonstrate FPs, that "only fast passes obtained in the park, on the day are valid, and that guests attempting to use fast passes purchased or obtained elsewhere will be ejected from the park."

Next, when they send you your tickets or better yet, your confirmation letter (or both), they should include info about FPs and -- again -- "only fast passes obtained in the park, on the day are valid, and that guests attempting to use fast passes purchased or obtained elsewhere will be ejected from the park."

You see where I'm going with this! The info should be everywhere they can put it, even squeeze it on the back of the tickets themselves. Then they should enforce it by ejecting guests for the day, and that should get picked up by Orlando media and commented on obsessively here :rolleyes1 so that it's clear what the program is, how it works, and what the consequences are for attempting to use counterfeited FPs.

I don't think Disney does nearly enough to inform the first-time (or really even the returning) guests at all the opportunities they have at their disposal to do so. I won't go OT and delve into the many areas I think they could improve the guest (and management!) experience by better communication -- but what do you all think of this in terms of this FP problem?

StephSalyer
02-23-2008, 08:57 AM
Call me cynical, but I have a feeling that this is all leading up to only those staying in Disney Resorts will have Fast Pass privleges. A scanner could easily be installed at the front of each FP line that would "open" when you scan your KTTW card. How odd is it that the FP rumor and the EMH announcement are coming around at the same time. Just like everywhere in life, if people would just do what is right, there would be no problem. A few bad apples ...........well, you get the drift.

Steph

wildeoscar
02-23-2008, 09:21 AM
well not to beat the Jim Hill gong... but the EMH situation, the fast pass situation, the nintendo DS testing, the concept of Disney's night kingdom... there are all the kind of things i figured would be on the horizon when they announced they are building a Four Seasons... a Four Seasons customer expects a very high level of service, Four Seasons would not have agreed to build onsite if they could not offer their customers an exclusive experience. When you drop $1000 a night for a room, you are going to expect more.

jeast
02-23-2008, 09:35 AM
Just curious, other than the UG thing, who is Jim Hill?

Laurabearz
02-23-2008, 09:36 AM
I didnt see any fast passes for sale on Ebay... Everyone was selling LOVELY WHITE ENVELOPES

Up for Auction is a White Envelope.

If you win this auction for the white envelope, I will also include FREE of charge these VIP passes that I have left over from my vacation.

This ad wanted $500 for that enevelope :lmao:

Oh and he wants $25 in SHIPPING for it...

omg this is just too too funny

boomhauer
02-23-2008, 10:15 AM
I didnt see any fast passes for sale on Ebay... Everyone was selling LOVELY WHITE ENVELOPES



This ad wanted $500 for that enevelope :lmao:

Oh and he wants $25 in SHIPPING for it...

omg this is just too too funny

Sadly, it's not funny anymore. I disagree with alot of the posters on here. I don't feel bad for ANYONE who purchases these things. They know darn well it's against Disney policy. They know darn well they're cheating.

What's really sad is, if you've ever tried contacting one of these sellers and ask them how they can go about doing something so immoral and wrong. They all seem to lack any morals whatsoever. The excuse is always the same - "What do you care?" It's scary to think that some of these people have children. What kind of message are you sending? It's OK to cheat the system, as long as you don't get caught.

wildeoscar
02-23-2008, 10:16 AM
Just curious, other than the UG thing, who is Jim Hill?

google jim hill and you will find his blog, it is about 25% interesting, and 4% accurate.

boomhauer
02-23-2008, 10:17 AM
Call me cynical, but I have a feeling that this is all leading up to only those staying in Disney Resorts will have Fast Pass privleges. A scanner could easily be installed at the front of each FP line that would "open" when you scan your KTTW card. How odd is it that the FP rumor and the EMH announcement are coming around at the same time. Just like everywhere in life, if people would just do what is right, there would be no problem. A few bad apples ...........well, you get the drift.

Steph

I personally would love that (sorry to any who don't stay on property). That's what Universal does, and I think it's pretty darn cool. However, I don't see Disney doing this anytime soon. There are far too many locals who go to the parks who wouldn't stand for this.

boomhauer
02-23-2008, 10:18 AM
google jim hill and you will find his blog, it is about 25% interesting, and 4% accurate.

As I've said about Jim Hill before - He's like a meterologist tracking the weather 7 days out. Eventually, he's gonna be right.

boomhauer
02-23-2008, 10:20 AM
Unfortunatly, This auction is legit in ebay's eyes because it clearly states that up for auction is a white envelope. Having the fast passes as a free bonus allows this auction to remain. The seller also clearly states that these fast passes probably won't work.
I know that ebay is pretty strict about there sellers. My ex-sister-in-law was banned from ebay for selling fake North Face jackets. (she believed they were real even though she was getting them from Hong Kong for less than $20 bucks each)
Anyway, it is crazy that this happens, it's even crazier that there are bids on these auctions.

I've used this example before:

Would ebay allow an auction to take place where someone was selling a plain white envelope and included as a free gift inside, was a bag of marajuana?

Don't waste your time worrying about ebay. They have no morals. None.

wildeoscar
02-23-2008, 10:23 AM
what i see a lot of on eBay is re entry tix more so than fast pass tix... do they still give out that style of re entry tix?

boomhauer
02-23-2008, 10:38 AM
what i see a lot of on eBay is re entry tix more so than fast pass tix... do they still give out that style of re entry tix?

Those are "given out" in 2 instances:

1.Ride/attraction breaks down.
2.Rider swap.

So, either someone had REALLY bad luck and most of the rides they were in line for broke down. Or, they used a kid to get a rider swap pass with no intention of using it, but rather selling it.

Personally, I think it's a Disney employee stealing them and selling them, or stealing them, having someone else sell them, and they're making off with a part of the profits.

I had an idea some time ago that they should color-code fastpasses for the given day. It's Monday - Must be green. Tuesday - Must be yellow. That'd send up the 1st red flag (so to speak). Another, more expensive possibility, is the scanners at fastpass entrances which was already brought up. Scanner scans the barcode. It'd be VERY hard to cheat that system. It would create bottlenecks, but I think it'd be a fair tradeoff.

TheZenMaster
02-23-2008, 11:09 AM
I've only read the first two pages of this thread so forgive me if this has been mentioned.

But I love this butthead on ebay that is selling fastpasses.

Here is the main listing that comes up on searches: "DISNEYWORLD ANIMAL KINGDOM FAST PASS PASSES FASTPASS."

Here are the first lines of the actual listing: "YOU ARE BIDDING ON A PLAIN WHITE ENVELOPE

ALSO, WITH THE PURCHASE OF THIS ENVELOPE , I'M THROWING IN, FREE OF CHARGE 6 AUTHENTIC FAST PASSES TO THE BEST ATTRACTION AT DISNEY ANIMAL KINGDOM .

Funny how this envelope wasn't even in the main description, don't you think? What a scumbag.

missesdisney
02-23-2008, 11:25 AM
Those are "given out" in 2 instances:

1.Ride/attraction breaks down.
2.Rider swap.

So, either someone had REALLY bad luck and most of the rides they were in line for broke down. Or, they used a kid to get a rider swap pass with no intention of using it, but rather selling it.


We tried to use a legitimate day old rider swap pass last year on everest (we ran out of time and left the day before without using it) and were turned away because it was the wrong color.

Thats_for_Shore
02-23-2008, 11:37 AM
No - What's amazing is this has been going on for years and neither Disney nor ebay (both who are WELL aware of it) do nothing to stop it. Ebay, yeah - Doesn't surprise me. I use ebay but when it comes to caveat emptor, that phrase could be given a whole new light in regards to ebay. Disney's neglect of this has always bewildered me. I've always seen it as a slap in the face to those of us who play by the rules. We all get limited vacation time with our families, and because of people like this (seller and buyer), we're spending more time in line instead of enjoying the attractions which we spent so much money to experience.

Should we be mad at Disney for doing nothing? ABSOLUTELY!


Actually, if you look at the auctions, you'll see that the seller is selling a WHITE ENVELOPE. So, you're bidding on a white envelope, and if you win, the seller will throw in the fastpasses "for free".

I imagine that this is the reason neither Disney nor Ebay do anything about it. By selling a white envelope, the seller isn't violating Disney.

We all know that it's a scam, and they're selling the envelopes as a way to get around the rules. I just hope that people realize they are dealing with a scam artist. If they'll scam Disney, they might just scam you, too!

CarolA
02-23-2008, 11:59 AM
Um. The UG is a guide book. The 2008 version is listed at $18.99 USD though the price varies by retailer. That's not a lot of money, particularly compared to the average cost of a Disney Trip. It's not a lot of money compared to other resources of its type and is one of the best sources of info, if not the best out there. It is huge but it is organized by topic so if you don't need hotel info and the like, you can skip that entire section. Or, you can thumb right to the resort you're interested in and it will give you what rooms have particular views.
As far as the tidbits themselves are concerned, in the version I have, the tidbits are boxed, labeled as to Jim Hill being the source, and are thus easily skipped. They also make up maybe 1% of the thing at most.



Yes, but why should I pay for "things Jim made up" ??? I assume they are paying him and IMHO if he gets one penny for his stuff he's over paid!

Sorry, but as long as he is there I won't buy or recommend.

Fiction should be sold in the FICTION area of the bookstore no the Travel section!

There are lots os other sources for data. I can't say that my trips have suffered at all from my decision!

CarolA
02-23-2008, 12:02 PM
well not to beat the Jim Hill gong... but the EMH situation, the fast pass situation, the nintendo DS testing, the concept of Disney's night kingdom... there are all the kind of things i figured would be on the horizon when they announced they are building a Four Seasons... a Four Seasons customer expects a very high level of service, Four Seasons would not have agreed to build onsite if they could not offer their customers an exclusive experience. When you drop $1000 a night for a room, you are going to expect more.


REALLY? Disney right now has lodging that comes close to your $1,000 a night and with that they provide a comparable service to the All Stars!~:rotfl:

Four Seasons may understand that, but Disney doesn't and why should they? People spend TONS of money on so so hotels and service right now....

CanadianGuy
02-23-2008, 01:19 PM
I've moved this discussion over to the Theme Parks Community Board.

Thanks,

Knox

boomhauer
02-23-2008, 02:21 PM
Actually, if you look at the auctions, you'll see that the seller is selling a WHITE ENVELOPE. So, you're bidding on a white envelope, and if you win, the seller will throw in the fastpasses "for free".

I imagine that this is the reason neither Disney nor Ebay do anything about it. By selling a white envelope, the seller isn't violating Disney.

We all know that it's a scam, and they're selling the envelopes as a way to get around the rules. I just hope that people realize they are dealing with a scam artist. If they'll scam Disney, they might just scam you, too!

Bad analogy, but let's say you were caught selling envelopes on ebay and included a couple packs of pot in them. Then as your defense you tried to say it was a free gift. Granted, fastpasses aren't illegal in that sense, but I assure you, if Disney ever took someone to court over this (which they reserve the right to do), the seller would lose. Courts don't have a alot of patience for people who break the law, and even less for people who try to break it on a technicality.

kaytieeldr
02-24-2008, 01:01 AM
I've used this example before:

Would ebay allow an auction to take place where someone was selling a plain white envelope and included as a free gift inside, was a bag of marajuana?

Don't waste your time worrying about ebay. They have no morals. None.
That sounds kinda risky... on the other hand, is there any Ebay seller here who would be willing to auction a plain white envelope containing... another plain white envelope?

Timon_n_Pumba
03-04-2008, 06:33 AM
I once saw an auction that wasn't an auction....it was the person trying to let people know that something was a rip off.


Why who would do something like that? :rolleyes1

As I recall, that auction got pulled because one of the scammers reported it to Ebay; in addition, the person who posted that auction got some very nasty emails...er, might have gotten some nasty emails. I mean, how would I know?

Heh.

Bottom line, didn't work.

Scott in MO

Timon_n_Pumba
03-04-2008, 06:51 AM
I am not to sure about the accuracy of Jim Hill's post because he said that CM's are feeling the top for the perferations that shoud supposedly be there. I have a few fast passes left over from our most recent trip and they are crisp and clean on all four edges. The machines spit them out, you don't tear them off like prize tickets

I just checked some that I had thrown in an old fanny pack and they are smooth as well. :confused3


The Jim Hill blurb apparently came from an article in the LA Times about the mouse trying to stop the use of re-entry passes...not Fastpasses per se.

The re-entry passes and rider switch passes (both are similar, printed on the same format) DO indeed have perforations at both the top and the bottom.

IF they have no expiration date on them (which about half of the ones for the Magic Kingdom that I've seen either in person or on Ebay do not---unlike the same type passes at, say, Epcot, which ALWAYS have an expiration date but even it is a month or so in advance), then printing and selling them becomes a relatively easy thing to do. And, even though it's also an easy matter to use a paper cutter with a perforation thingy on it, apparently Disney doesn't think the sellers have thought of that. Yet.

The re-entry passes are printed en masse legitimately by TPTB and handed out in huge stacks at City Hall as compensation for real or imagined damage to a guest's vacation somewhere on Disney property. Last June, we were getting anniversary buttons and next to us a guy came in with a code number they'd given him at EPCOT for something that had happened to him at Electric Umbrella or another CS, and they gave him a HUGE stack of re-entry passes.

Until they stop practices like the above, then anyone could go through the motions to get these and sell them on Ebay, just like you can get a child swap (rider switch) pass with no intention of using it and sell those, too. I do think, however, many of these auctions are run by current or past CMs; too many originate in Florida. But, there are many sellers of HUGE amounts of these located in the midwest, New York, etc. They have to be getting them somewhere...or making their own.

My question is, there are SO many of these totally legitimate passes in circulation that have no expiration (issued as I described above by Guest Relations), that I don't see HOW Disney can deny their use and not make a lot of legitimate users of these very unhappy. It all boils down to trying to find some middle ground where they don't upset any guests---and that's totally impossible, so ?????

Just an FYI (and my two cents regarding the matter).

Scott in MO

FantasyCM
04-01-2008, 01:34 PM
[QUOTE=boomhauer;23392441]Bad analogy...QUOTE]

You should have just stopped right there while you were ahead. Pot = Illegal substance. Fastpasses are not illegal in any way, shape, or form. You comparison is weak and unsubstantiated. Sounds like you're just jealous of the folks who have what you don't...to be honest, you come across as a bit of a whiner. Are you a lawyer? Are you lawsuit happy? Seems you think you know alot about the subject.

Here's a tip...Disney doesn't care! Unless someone walked up and beat up a cast member for them, they don't care! Why? Because Disney wants people who have the money to buy these to come to the park and have more money to spend on material items rather than waiting in line.

Why on earth would you care who Disney has an interest in and why? Seems to me you have entirely TOO much time on your hands. The folks that end up selling the passes don't bother me at all...that just means they didn't take their turn to ride and instead are jumping on the huge consumer value of these passes and I give them credit for that. It's just a fastpass man, not a sack of dope! There are far greater things to worry about in life. :cool2:

Jalva22
04-01-2008, 01:59 PM
[QUOTE=boomhauer;23392441]Bad analogy...QUOTE]

You should have just stopped right there while you were ahead. Pot = Illegal substance. Fastpasses are not illegal in any way, shape, or form. You comparison is weak and unsubstantiated. Sounds like you're just jealous of the folks who have what you don't...to be honest, you come across as a bit of a whiner. Are you a lawyer? Are you lawsuit happy? Seems you think you know alot about the subject.

Here's a tip...Disney doesn't care! Unless someone walked up and beat up a cast member for them, they don't care! Why? Because Disney wants people who have the money to buy these to come to the park and have more money to spend on material items rather than waiting in line.

Why on earth would you care who Disney has an interest in and why? Seems to me you have entirely TOO much time on your hands. The folks that end up selling the passes don't bother me at all...that just means they didn't take their turn to ride and instead are jumping on the huge consumer value of these passes and I give them credit for that. It's just a fastpass man, not a sack of dope! There are far greater things to worry about in life. :cool2:

Man, using your first ever post on these boards to dredge up a thread that has been dormant for more than a month and lodge a scathing post.

FantasyCM
04-01-2008, 02:31 PM
[QUOTE=FantasyCM;24168406]

Man, using your first ever post on these boards to dredge up a thread that has been dormant for more than a month and lodge a scathing post.


Nah, not my first ever. I figured the discussion comes to light every other week anyway, so why not? I actually just found this post after reading another more recent thread on the same exact topic, and started searching for others. Apologies for not posting there, but this thread was the last I visited...and it wasn't vaulted into the archives yet, so why shouldn't it still be open for discussion? I'm just giving a different perspective on things, that's all. I suppose I could have started a new thread, but why? I'm sure there are some who didn't see this thread the first time around, like me, and wouldn't mind checking it out.