Losing the Magic? [Archive] - The DIS Discussion Forums

Conure

03-10-2002, 08:28 PM

Recently, the Disney "magic" is dwindling down by the day. More people are opting to go to parks with more thrill rides like Six Flags, Universal, etc. By doing this, they are drawing Disney into the competition, and taking away favorites like Horizons to build bigger, faster, more "exciting" rides. Also, there is more virtual reality than ever. It's easy to tell things are bleak when The Great Movie Ride, Carousel of Progress, Timekeeper, among others are on the chopping block. Is there such a thing as the "magic" anymore? Or is something that was once one man's dream becoming an inviting, large reality, now just a money making scheme? Let's hope not. Someone in the higher bracket of Disney employees needs to remember that Disney was intended to be enjoyed by all ages, not just adult thrillseekers. That is one thing that makes Disney great. There's entertainment and enjoyment for evryone and every age, and that's how Walt himself wanted it.

Eeyore2U

03-10-2002, 10:48 PM

We were there from 2/24-3/3. We felt the magic. We spent one day at US/IOA and I came to the conclusion it's an amusement park. No more, No less. Not anything special. My DS/15 is getting to an age that IOA is more exciting. I respect and understand that but if that's what he want's I'll drive two hours to Six Flags New England.

I love CoP and the GMR. Time keeper was a must do. BUT!!!! I expect Disney to do what's necessary to stay competetive. I expect to see a mix of Disneyesque attractions and things for the 14+ crowd.

Someone in the higher bracket of Disney employees needs to remember that Disney was intended to be enjoyed by all ages, not just adult thrillseekers. That is one thing that makes Disney great. There's entertainment and enjoyment for evryone and every age, and that's how Walt himself wanted it.

What has Disney done to move away from Walt's vision? He was a progressive, adaptive thinker. From what I can see, the fututre plans meet those expectations.

lrodk

03-10-2002, 11:08 PM

We just visited in December, and for us the magic is still alive and kicking, dare I say better than ever. I've been visiting at least twice a year for the past 11 years and I have found that there is plenty there for all ages to enjoy. The so-called thrill rides at WDW are few and far between, with the bulk of attractions/shows still geared toward families. In fact, the last two projects to open(DinoRama, Aladdins Flying Carpet) address this issue directly. In all honesty I think that Disney will never get carried away with coasters and other such rides that turn the stomach. If anything I believe that they are merely trying to expand the diversity of their offerings.

Planogirl

03-10-2002, 11:49 PM

There's still a lot of magic at the Disney parks IMO but it is dwindling year after year. The old rides and the CM's luckily still carry on the traditions but too much of the new stuff is just plain disappointing, again IMO.

That said, we are visiting Universal along with WDW the next time we travel to Orlando. Many, many people have told me that there is a certain magic at Universal too and that these parks can't in any way be compared to Six Flags. We'll see but I do believe that to some extent that magic is in the eye of the beholder. I can't see any magic at Six Flags but I know of some people who are very excited by these parks. Is this magic to them? I don't know but it's hard for me to understand. :)

DisneyFanGuy

03-11-2002, 12:35 AM

There is still magic! I still love the place and manage to drop in for a few days every year.

I just don't like much of the new stuff. The last truly magical attraction that Disney built for me was AK's safari. That is a truly exceptional attraction. The problem is that AK lacks much else that interests me.

Since then.......

JIYI
Magic Carpets
Dinorama
Lots and lots of shops.

Magic Carpets are ok, but the Dinorama thing is a blight. Really really really bad.

Here is the way it works for me...........Build something new and I will spend time at every park. But time is ticking. I still go ever darn year, but I am spending less time each year than the year before. Disney is still the best in the world, but it just seems like they aren't driven to set the standard anymore in their new attractions. The world class stuff has all but disappeared.

All the cutbacks....? I have no idea about how their financial structure works. The parks are still clean, fun, and filled with great employees. I never lack anything to do. If they stop building entirely I would still come. But when they build stuff and it "feels" like a compromise......

I have high hopes for the new Figment, and even higher hopes for SPACE. If SPACE is JUST an ride, however, I am going to be upset. So please fill it with eye candy, Disney. Show us that you still know how to build the best in the world.

GeorgeG

03-11-2002, 03:52 AM

We've been going to WDW almost every year since 1986 and while we still feel the magic, we have seen a few slightly disappointing trends that stray from the traditional charm.

Many of us are happy going back to the same thing year after year, but from a business point of view, they need to keep up with this high-tech world we live in to attract a new generation of "kids." I just hope they maintain some balance so older kids like us can enjoy going as much as our grandchildren.

Don't forget, too, that what was presented as "futuristic" 25 years ago has become yesterdays news. Now, if they could just discover that ever elusive fountain of youth....

DVC-Landbaron

03-11-2002, 11:42 AM

I see that when I first read this, your post total was only seven. Well let me say: Conure, my new found friend!! Welcome!! You need to find the car pool thread (at the top of the page) and sign up for car number 3. It is a lovely ride that affords folks to enjoy the wonderful experience that Disney magic can bring us, but at the same time allows them to see reality as it is. And sometimes that includes criticizing Disney management for boneheaded business decisions, shortsightedness and money over magic thinking. (NOTE: you will have a hard time convincing others that you can enjoy what magic remains while denouncing current policies.)

Anyway, welcome and post often. I like the way you think!!!! ;)

Eeyore2U: What has Disney done to move away from Walt's vision? I don't know how long you've been hanging around this board, but go through some of the past, "classic" threads. Bring up any issue you like. Maybe the gutting of Imagineering. Perhaps the rampant sequels. What about the recent cuts (beginning before 9/11) including hours, rides with no replacements, hotel closures, etc. And those are just a few off the top of my head. There are dozens and dozens more we've talked about recently.

The question really should be, "What has Disney done to keep to Walt's vision?" Any answers? I certainly don't have too many!!!

Mickey76

03-11-2002, 04:01 PM

:)

As long as there are those (boys, girls, adults....everyone!) who still believe that Magic is possible and allow imagination to be more important than consumerism or quick thrills, Disney will remain on top, as Magical as ever. All it takes is, "Faith and trust....oh yeah, and a little Pixie Dust."

Mickey76 :)

Xevious

03-11-2002, 05:26 PM

I'll go on record stating that I love thrill rides. I love roller coasters and being tossed and turned. Thing is, the thrill doesn't last. The feeling is great at that particular moment, but then it's gone. WDW is different.

On my first trip in '89 I was a nineteen and went with friends. The only reason we went was because it was Disney World and everyone has to go at least once in their lifetime. I wasn't into Disney at all at the time and wanted to go to Six Flags in St. Loius. I really didn't know what to expect at WDW. At first I was greatly disappointed at the lack of thrill rides. Boy did that change in a hurry! I can still remember the experience 13 years later. Talk about a life altering trip. It was NOTHING like I expected and I was entranced!

One of my all time favorites is Splash Mountain. Even without the drop it's still on the top of my list. Why? It brings as smile to my face and leaves me with memories. I haven't been able to go to the park since '94. (That's about to change!) I can still vividly remember the sights and sounds of Splash Mountain. Same goes for GMV, CBJ, Peter Pan, or any of the shows such as Beauty and the Beast or Little Mermaid. I could go on and on. They're not rides, they're experiences.

I went to Six Flags last summer. Yeah, I can tell you what I did and what I rode, but that's about it. It's a pure physical experience. That's what seperates WDW from these types of places. It stays with you after you leave. If Disney does go the 'thrill' route that's fine. They need to do what they have to do to keep up with the times. I only hope they have sense enough to know what made the parks so magical to begin with.

From the talk on this board I hope I'm not disappointed with what I find because the day I go and see the magic gone is the day I stop dreaming of going back.

raidermatt

03-11-2002, 05:53 PM

Xevious- Don't let the crumugeons around here scare you.;)

Take Baron, who uses phrases like "what magic remains". He's taking a nearly month long trip to WDW in the near future. As usual, you can tell more about a person through his actions than his words...

Disney has always had its detractors. Some more vocal than others. Some felt they could see through Walt's "facade", and saw him as a pure capitalist who wanted to take over the world.

Its really no different now. Some love Disney, some hate it, some do both. Some resent it, some cherish it. The only real change is how easy it is to communicate these ideas with large numbers of people by typing on a keyboard.

Eeyore2U

03-11-2002, 06:06 PM

The question really should be, "What has Disney done to keep to Walt's vision?" Any answers? I certainly don't have too many!!!

Baron,

I've been around long enough to know you all very well. I know we will agree to disagree. But I believe if Walt were here today you would see pretty much the same things being done to keep his business viable. I pretty sure the big picture was more important then the individual thought to Walt. He wanted to build Disneyland so he sold himself and his product to a television network. Life today isn't what it was in Walt's heyday. I can only imagine what he would have done with CoP as a virtual ride.

Xevious

03-11-2002, 08:05 PM

I take all the negatives I read hear with a grain of salt. I'll judge for myself when I go.:D

Uncleromulus

03-12-2002, 07:34 AM

First-I'm a Disney "oldtimer". I like tradition. I like the themed, soft rides. Heck-I'm happy with the trian ride around the MK. The Tomorrowlad Transportation Authority is one of my favorite rides!! Spaceship Earth is bliss!! I liked the World of Motion, Horizons, and trhe Carousel of Progress. But that's me--.
These days, the attractiveness seem to be measured by how high and how fast the roller coaster. It's the difference between a "Theme park" and an "amusement park". I hope Disney can strike a balance between both, but my sense is they are drawing away from the traditional in favor of the "currently popular". I'm sure their research suggests that's what the people want.
My point (if any)-I'll continue to go to Disney parks as long as there are attractions I still like. But if they go too "High tech" I'll stop going. The future should be interesting--.

Peter Pirate

03-12-2002, 08:45 AM

A departure from the restaurant board! I'm happy to see it.

You have a healthy Disney attitude, IMO. I agree that you take what you can, love it if possible & have fun if it's there... but the bottom line is, when it (Disney) no longer can 'bring the mail', I'll no longer 'foot the bill'! Pretty simple philosophy, really...
:cool: :cool: :bounce: :cool: :cool:

King Triton

03-12-2002, 10:30 PM

Why did Disney take away Horizons, World of Motion and the old Figment Imagination ride?:mad: Epcot lost a lot of magic when those rides were taken out. Is there anything we can do to bring them back??:confused:

King Triton

Eeyore2U

03-13-2002, 06:57 AM

I prefer TT to World of Motion and I hope that Mission Space is an upgrade. Why won't people let Disney move forward. After riding some rides a bazillion times don't they get old? Also, it may be easier to blow something up and start new then refurb.

Captain Crook

03-13-2002, 08:13 AM

Eeyore2U, you're right again! In fact, were Walt still around he would have buried these dogs long ago. COP would have been in moth balls 10 years ago, easily. Walt loved change and hated standing pat...But around here if you try to give the current regime any credit you're immediately labeled an apologist!

I agree that TT is a huge improvement & Space will (undoubtedly) be, as well. JIYI was a disaster. How they took a cute (but somewhat lame ride) and made it worse is beyond me, but hey, nobody is perfect.
:smooth: :smooth: :bounce: :smooth: :smooth:

All Aboard

03-13-2002, 09:32 AM

King Triton, with the exception of Spaceship Earth, I believe the plan for Future World has always been to rework the contents of each pavillion every 10 - 20 years (or so). I could be wrong, but I believe it's even written into some of the sponsorship contracts.

Future World was growing significantly stale with me. Having been on all of the attractions dozens of times, I recall a trip in 1992 when I thought to myself "I'm tired of this." It's just one man's opinion of course, but I am glad to see new attractions replacing the originals.

DVC-Landbaron

03-13-2002, 01:22 PM

Future World was growing significantly stale with me. Having been on all of the attractions dozens of times, I recall a trip in 1992 when I thought to myself "I'm tired of this." It's just one man's opinion of course, but I am glad to see new attractions replacing the originals.Hold on to your hats folks!! I agree with Mr. Curling!! The problem I see, however, is they are not replacing (updating) the pavilions in a timely manner. And, even more important, the updates they have made, is obscuring the original focus! Now, maybe that focus needs to be readjusted. Again, that's fine. But instead of a redefinition, they give us 'stuff' hodge-podge fashion. You get the feeling that on someone's desk, under a huge stack of papers (mostly memos from Ei$ner demanding 10% reductions, spreadsheets and consultant's focus group reports), where no one ever looks anymore, lies the mission statement for Future World.

Maybe it's time to dust it off and read it!!!!

DisDuck

03-13-2002, 08:29 PM

Ah, my favorite type of thread. The Duck Returns. The Magic lives. I will be there end of June with my nephew and nieces. The 11 yo niece is SO LOOKING FORWARD. Her face just lights up at the thought and she has never been to WDW. That is what I call MAGIC.

Conure

03-13-2002, 08:44 PM

My opinions haven't changed on this. Disney "Magic" is not only the anticipation, but the expierience. Some things you just shouldn't change! Sure, Walt wanted progress. But this shows in MGM Studios and Animal Kingdom. Can't some things be kept the same? Henry Ford knew Ford Motor Co. would eventually move beyond Model Ts, yet, is there anyone out to destroy all these cars? The answer is no. Obviously, some things need to be done, and I'm not against there being some advancements, but don't remove the favorites! The people who loved the Horizons ride, would, when they came back, go on this ride. It didn't matter if they were 13, 31, or 61! But, can you really say the same about the new stuff? Horizons, Star Tours, Great Movie Ride, and others, make (or made) Disney great. It can do something that little else can, entertain and enlighten peopl of anyone, any age, and I think that if Disney keeps updating with "the times" all that will be lost. This is true because The new stuff dosen't attract everyone, just specific groups. If Disney can only attract a few groups of people, and not people of any age, race, or background, THAT'S where the magic is lost.

Eeyore2U

03-13-2002, 09:11 PM

Henry Ford knew Ford Motor Co. would eventually move beyond Model Ts, yet, is there anyone out to destroy all these cars? The answer is no.

Wait, don't they on occasion discontinue a model? Yes!!! How can you have rides about the future where the future has come and gone? Horizons was horrible after it's last refurb. And I loved the ride.

It can do something that little else can, entertain and enlighten peopl of anyone, any age, and I think that if Disney keeps updating with "the times" all that will be lost. This is true because The new stuff dosen't attract everyone, just specific groups. If Disney can only attract a few groups of people, and not people of any age, race, or background, THAT'S where the magic is lost.

What ride has Disney developed for a specific group at the cost of another so called "classic" ride. I think Test Track appeals to all ages. Give Mission Space a chance.

Conure, do you believe what was top shelf in the 1960s or the 1970s still fits that bill today or are just holding on to what you grew up on?

Bob O

03-13-2002, 10:19 PM

I think disney is still magical but it is losing its magic slowly but surely. I think future world is very dated and Horizons/World of Motion had outlived their usefulness but then a ride that was timeless like JIYI gets changed for the worse just so disney can add more selling space. They havent updated the movies at Epcot either. MGM is also very stale!!!! Star tours was dateed years ago as is Indy as examples. I think this just reflects a corporate philsophy not to update the parks and get by on good will built up over the years. They belive people will always return so why spend money to improve the product when they will happily buy the old product. I really enjoy Universal and how they have used new technologies to add great attractions like MIB/Spiderman and created great coasters like the Hulk/DD. And even improved on 3D rides like T23d by adding a human element. Disney right now is stagnat and i hope it changes. I hope Mission Space is as good as the previews indicate it might be, but again disney was too cheap to pay for it themselves, but will pay for a parade that is used as a prop for globe sales.
I think a park like magic Kingdom should keep its traditional feel and not be updated as often as the others but even their they have mothballed attractions with no replacements. Walt Disney himself pushed the envelope by using new technologies to make even better rides/attractions but apparently its a concept the leaders at disney have now forgotten.

Bob O

03-13-2002, 10:41 PM

A roller coaster can be part of an attraction if done the right way but usually for cost its not done. But considering what disney has added lately i would much perfer a world class coaster than some carny rides or dino-o-rama, even with out any great theming. Disney needs to improve their thrill factor IMHO. Their is little thrill at disney, escpecially compared to most rides/shows which are non-thrill. I enjoy both but their is a major lack of the thrill factor.

OnWithTheShow

03-14-2002, 01:04 AM

the ride vs attraction debate is something i feel very strongly about. See my soon to be posted Disneyland thread. The magic to some degree is being lost by adding rides instead of attractions. however at the same time there are also new attractions being added.

Uncleromulus

03-14-2002, 06:33 AM

Another thought (tho at 6:00 AM it's kinda hard to think much!):
We're mostly talking about changes, upgrades, etc because many of us have been to WDW a lot (me, 26 times). So we can trace the progress (or, regress, as the case may be) in the rides and attractions. But there are large numbers of brand new visitors every year who have never seen World of Motion or Horizons and now never will.
Sniff, sniff--there's a tear coming in my eye as I think about it. Getting sentimental---.

raidermatt

03-14-2002, 02:55 PM

Bob, is it really fair to call MGM stagnant? How old are ToT and RnRC?

Ride vs. Attraction is certainly a big part of the equation, but even if Disney built a Hulk scale coaster indoors, with great themeing, it probably wouldn't be the best use of their capital (unless, perhaps, it were part of a 5th gate directed at thrill-seekers, but that's another story).

Part of what turns me off about going to Universal is that they do not have a lot of family-oriented attractions. Yes, they have thrill rides for big kids and adults. And yes, they have kiddie areas for the little ones. But what they don't have much of are things like PotC, IASW, PPFlight, Railroad, Pooh, CBJ, Maelstrom, American Adventure, Universe of Energy, Kilamanjaro, etc, etc, etc. These are attractions that I can not only ride with my 3-year old son and thrill-ride averse wife, but that we can all ENJOY. Nobody is "putting up with" the kiddie rides, we actually like them. And most of the thrill rides are tame enough that my 3-year old can start to enjoy them. So while I would have a blast riding a monster indoor coaster, it would be one more ride without my wife and son. That's not what I want, and its not what many other families want.

Yes, there are exceptions, but that's what Universal, Six Flags, Paramount and Busch Gardens are for.

kenjean

03-14-2002, 03:20 PM

It was 1995 when my wife talked me into going to Disneyworld for the first time. I was under the opinion that it was just for kids. Much to my surprise, and eventually to my wife's regrets, the magic hit me. I wanted to go back as often as possible, taking every vacation there. Now that we have two daughters, and we live in Florida, we will take them often.

In reading these threads, and thinking back to what captured me that first trip, I feel that the magic has changed. I see that Disney is still spending money (some), or until recently was, on the parks. It is just that the sense of wonder is not as strong as it was. I remember the first attraction I went on, Space Mountain. Having only been to Six Flags before, the que knocked me out. The music and looking through the portals I thought was imaginatively done.

From there to Alien Encounter, elaborately done but not my cup of tea. Then the rest of Tomorrowland, and the rest of the park. It was a great day of discovery, with all the small touches and imagination put into everything.

It is not just the small touches that make Disneyworld for me. It is not the major attractions. It is the combination. From TOT to the TTA, it is the range and breath of attractions that I like. Yes, some are corny and some spectactular, but I like them all. And now that I have small children I appreciate being able to ride anything they can.

My biggest complaint is that Disney is getting careless with new stuff. There doesn't seem to be much planning put in to Alladin or the spin ride in AK, the new JIYI. I use my description of the que on Space Mountain as an example, the effect it had on a first time visitor. There are some bright spots, and I hope Mission Space is one. TT I can't decide on.

The only other thing that bothers me is taking away of extras that to me represented Disney. I really liked EE, the feeling early in the morning when the park was not over-crowded.

OnWithTheShow

03-14-2002, 07:10 PM

I also do not agree that the Studios has been Stagnant. (I am severely biased though) The Studios has added Fantasmic, Rock n Roller Coaster, Playhouse Disney, Millionaire, Al's Toy Barn, new water effects tank, and One Man's Dream all within the last 4 years.

Conure

03-14-2002, 08:32 PM

Eeyore2U,
I think it is kind of odd how you mention me just trying to "hang on" to the rides I grew up on, when in truth, I'm 12 years old! I'm not saying what was popular in the 70's is going to be the same now, but, I can't think how I would have any experience with those, considering my age. Besides, I loved Horizons, but don't think adding new stuff in place of these enjoyable rides is justified. As for you're list, here are just a few examples,

1. Great Movie Ride : Though not gone yet, rumors around Disney say it shouldn't be there long.

2. Star Tours: Soon to be updated and turned into PodRacer Simulation

3. HORIZONS!!!! : Sure, it wasn't "futuristic" any more, but change the narraration and make it say the year 2075, and it would have been fine.

I'm not sure how good Mission Space will be, but is impossible to convince me that there was nowhere else they could have put it. Just, before jumping to conclusions, Eeyore2U, please listen to reason. I'm twelve years old and appreciate those rides. I might love whatever they put in their place, if they're gonna get rid of something, make it something they just added, like Alien Encounters. I like a good roller coaster as much as the next guy, but Disney needs to keep 'em in there place.

Eeyore2U

03-14-2002, 09:07 PM

Just, before jumping to conclusions, Eeyore2U, please listen to reason. I'm twelve years old and appreciate those rides.

And my DW is the woman who's hand I'm kissing! :D

HorizonsFan

03-15-2002, 03:15 AM

What has been and what will always be the problem with this particular debate is that we all define "magic" in a very personal way.
It is entirely possible that one can feel the magic is strong and another can feel it fading. It's a very personal thing.
I'm still in car 2, however I have great hope for the future. Hotels can re-open, Imagineers can be re-hired, hours can be reinstated and mistakes can be corrected. In fact, I believe that some of the cutbacks (hotel closures and postponed openings for example) will strengthen the company in the long run. None of the cutbacks as described on these boards has diminished my excitement about going in May. We plan to do Universal and IOA this trip so maybe I'll have something to measure my version of WDW "magic" against. Six Flags certainly doesn't measure up...
My next trip is only 71 days, 12 hours and 57 minutes away. (but who's counting?)
I can already feel the "magic".

GeorgeG

03-15-2002, 05:01 AM

I can accept change. It's a fact of life. However, I see there'a a lot of sentiment among us for some of our old favorites. Horizons and World of Motion were two of my favorites as well and it may have been nice if they had been left as is with the new stuff added on somewhere. There's no denying that what was once the future is now history, but there's nothing wrong with history, either.

A glimpse into the past isn't all bad. Instead of saying "outdated," perhaps we could say "predated?"

The older I get, the more compassion I have for old things...

Eeyore2U

03-15-2002, 06:57 AM

Originally posted by GeorgeG
A glimpse into the past isn't all bad. Instead of saying "outdated," perhaps we could say "predated?"

The older I get, the more compassion I have for old things...

George,

Thanks for using the right words.

brad

03-15-2002, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by Uncleromulus
there are large numbers of brand new visitors every year who have never seen World of Motion or Horizons and now never will.

Yes.

Like me.

Thanks for NOTHING Ei$ner.

Captain Crook

03-15-2002, 07:41 AM

Are we just forgetting that the Horizons building was a mess? That it had to come down? How smart would it have been to rebuild an old, outdated ride in a brand new building? Think of the criticisim that would have happend then! Come on guys. sometimes things just have to go & I'd be willing to bet that Eisner wasn't the driving force behind these changes...
:smooth: :smooth: :bounce: :smooth: :smooth:

HorizonsFan

03-15-2002, 09:05 AM

I remember Cap'n. I would rather remember Horizons in it's glory than see it in the condition it was in.
And as you can see, I'm a Horizons fan...

Bob O

03-15-2002, 02:20 PM

Raidermatt-RnRC is new and TOT will probably never get old!!! But Star Tours is old/dated and no replacement is forthcoming as disney is too cheap to do it correctly as far as Lucas is concerned. Indy Jones is old/dated. I do have high hopes for Mission Space. (the last thing they need is a 5th gate when they have 4 incomplete parks now!)
OnWithTheShow i do like RNRC and havent seen the new hat/One Mans dream but the rest mentioned arent my cup of tea at all. And as much as i like Muppets/LM/ beauty and the Beast etc when you seen them numerous times they do get old.
And im not optmisitic they will add new shows/attractions unless they get somebody else to pay for it .

Conure

03-15-2002, 02:40 PM

Bob O,
As far as the rides you've mentioned, I think Indiana Jones is good for what it's worth and enjoy it as a break from ToT. Also, Star Tours is, in my opinion, fun and a great outlet for Star Wars fans in Disney World to stock up on merchandise. There are enough Star Wars fans who come to Disney that losing that group could almost certainly result in lost revenue. Besides, if they are going to take out a simulation, keep Star Tours, but get rid of Body Wars! I've never gone on it without feeling very sick afterwards. It seems you won't be impressed by much except cutting edge technology. But, that's what sets Disney apart in my mind.

Bob O

03-15-2002, 02:44 PM

Star Tours is old and for me its boring!!!!! I guess ive been on it too many times and with all the rumors of it being replaced i got my hopes up, only to be dashed by the apparent cheapness of wdw!! I look at Back to the Future as a model ride for disney to beat in simulator type rides.

raidermatt

03-15-2002, 03:01 PM

BobO- I agree that Disney maybe dropping the ball somewhat on the new rides, but I just don't feel it to the extent you do. Space needs to be a good one for me to keep that opinion.

As I've said before, I don't care who pays for the attraction. If Disney can get a sponser to pay for an attraction, they'd be insane to refuse and insist on paying themselves. But they do need to be ready to pony up if sponsers decide against spending that kind of money. I know that Disney is having a bit of a problem with this right now, but these sponsorships are really advertising costs for the sponsers, and we know that ad-spending has been down for awhile now. I don't mind if Disney waits 6 months to a year for that to turn around. No sense throwing money out the window that you can get somebody else to provide next year.

I would also disagree to the greatest extent that they have 4 incomplete parks at WDW. MK could use a tweak, but is hardly incomplete. Same with Epcot. MGM needs a little more, but again, incomplete is an unfair description. There is enough to get one's "money's worth."

AK is a somewhat different story, but I suspect that unless the feel of this park is completey scrapped, there will always be those who consider it incomplete.

Bob O

03-15-2002, 11:59 PM

I also dont care who pays for it but disneys actions the past few years shows that if a sponsor wont pay for a big attraction it just wont get done. The first 3 parks all have rides/attractions that are dated/not been replaced and i would have perferred those parks would have been given the money to update rides/add attractions than build a new park that is still incomplete and they are trying to fill the gaps with carny type attractions and not even building the section that was supposed to be a cornerstone of the park when initially announced- BK! How many decades are gonna go by till a country is added to Epcot??? Or at least replace the films in the countries???

Conure

03-16-2002, 12:23 PM

Well, I can see both sides of the issue, (which I have a habit of doing), but, in all honesty, I think Disney World and Universal and IOA are different. Disney is not a "cutting edge" park, or at least shouldn't be dominated by it. All these "model" rides in Universal are for that park. They help that park's attendence. How many families will fly down to Orlando to see a top-rate simulation at Disney World. Disney has a different focus, in my opinion, and what the best solution for Universal may not be for Disney World.

Bob O

03-16-2002, 03:49 PM

I do agree that both parks are different but thats part of what makes each park great!! Disney used to under Walt use the latest in technology to create rides/shows, they would push the envelope, maybe not in a thrill aspect but to create unique experiences, but now it seems they are more conccerned about money. People may not realize that disney was the first park with arrow from what im told to use steel in the construction of tublar roller coaster track, so Walt wasnt afraid to use new ideas/technology to creat things for his guests. If disney hyped a new simluation ride say, a new Stars Tours pod race that would be used as part of a major pr push to get people to come, they did it when Star Tours fist opened. And aslo used TOT as part of a big pr focus to increase attendance.

mmouse52

03-16-2002, 05:35 PM

I"ve been going to WDW since I was 20 in 1972 at least twice a year each year. I started losing the magic when I became a cast member one year ago. I believe like the author of this thread that some of the magic left. MGM and Animal Kingdom were not part of Uncle Walts thoughts. Arcades in each of the hotels don"t belong there. Penny Presses have become a big money making thing. The days of simplicity are gone. The days of the swan boats around the castle are gone. Make a ton of hotels and bring in a ton of people. I don"t think this was Walts dream. I can remember a magnificent candle light procession at Christmas time with a guest of honor reading the nativity at the magic kingdom for the same price as my daily ticket. Now the new money making scheme is to charge to go back for hot chocolate and artificial snow. Again the simplicity of sitting on a bench and enjoying the tree and lights around you are not enough. Charge more for a lot less...