Will DVC build on the West Coast soon?

[jmatias]

I would love to buy into the DVC but we live in Hawaii and the resorts are so far away. Does anyone know if Disney will build in the West Coast anytime soon?

Are there any DVC owners on the board from Hawaii? If so, I would love to hear from you!

Aloha,
Jen

[Dean]

Jen, don't hold your breath. DVC bought property and announced a resort about 45 miles south of Disneyland but the backtracked and sold that property to Marriott who is developing it as Marriott's Newport Coast Villas. They also had some type of agreement for a hotel and apparently planned a DVC in Colorado but something happened to that deal. Rumors also abounded for both a NY and HI location around the same time the above options were being banted about. So I think it's likely we've seen the last of off property DVC resorts and likely getting close to the end of the on property resorts.

We were stationed on Oahu for 3 years in the mid 80's and my daughter was born there. We will be back there this summer but staying a week on Maui and a week on Kauai. No Oahu time this trip which was what the family said they wanted but now they're saying they wished we could do some of the usual things like the PCC, PH Memorial and the like. I guess we'll just have to suffer on the other islands. Aloha.

[Terry S]

A DVC resort in Hawaii, that would definatly be one I would want to stay at! I wouldn't mind one near Disneyland either!

[Werner Weiss]

Originally posted by Dean
Jen, don't hold your breath. DVC bought property and announced a resort about 45 miles south of Disneyland but the backtracked and sold that property to Marriott who is developing it as Marriott's Newport Coast Villas.
I agree with Dean.

Disney Vacation Development had a maginificent resort site just 21.73 (http://www.mapquest.com/directions/main.adp?go=1&do=nw&ct=NA&1ah=&1a=+23000+Newport+Coast+Drive&1p=&1c=newport+coast&1s=CA&1z=92657&1y=US&2ah=&2a=1313+S+Harbor+Blvd&2p=&2c=Anaheim&2s=CA&2z=92803&2y=US&lr=2&x=62&y=8) miles from Disneyland.

For more information, see my article Disney's Newport Coast Villas, the Disney Vacation Club that Never Happened (http://www.yesterland.com/ncv.html).

All indications are that future Disney Vacation Club resorts will be limited to the Walt Disney World property.

[Horace Horsecollar]

A few months ago, there was an announcement of a new Vacation Club at Disneyland Paris. A perfect location for another Disney Vacation Club, right? But, once again, it's a Marriott Vacation Club, not a Disney Vacation Club.

Disney seems to have no interest in developing DVC resorts anywhere other than WDW.

[Dean]

Unfortunately, I agree. I think that would have been the perfect opportunity too. Disneyland Paris would have served many of the same reasons they're selling only at WDW now.

[Richyams]

Its not that Disney has no interest, its because they were burned so badly with the mistakes of building at HH and VB. THe dismal sales at those resorts have forever negated any possibility of there ever being an off WDW DVC resort ever again.

[Granny]

Good points all around.

And honestly, DVD seems to have found their niche in WDW DVC resorts. Look how fast VWL sold out, and BCV business appears to be brisk.

Still on the boards for WDW sites is the new Disney Institute Villas (or whatever they will call them) and the Eagle Pines Villas.

Disney has figured out that on-site at WDW is the only place where they have a competitive advantage with the other time shares. Since DVC is not the least expensive time share out there, they are using the "on-site magic" to sell their time shares at a premium.

To me, it makes a lot of good business sense.

[LDPKELLY]

Why do you thing that HH and VB were such disappointments? We just bought into a OKW resale and are really excited about the resorts that are offsite....it seems to me that the offsite properties make the whole idea of the DVC more appealing....it gives you the opportunity to go other great places while insuring the best accomodations when we visit WDW.....Colorado would be awesome for another resort.....

[jmatias]

Well, if DVC does build on the West Coast, we will be there!

For Christmas 2001 we stayed at the Disneyland Hotel and enjoyed the "Disney Magic" even with our little hotel room!

We did visit the Marriott Newport Coast and considered buying it mainly because it was the nicest resort close to Disneyland.

I'm sure if DVC built out West, it would be a hot seller!

Aloha,
Jen

[Werner Weiss]

Originally posted by LDPKELLY
Why do you think that HH and VB were such disappointments?
All indications are that HH and VB are diappointments only from a Disney business perspective. According to the reports on this board, HH and VB are outstanding resorts.

Disney is in a much better position to market to potential DVC buyers at their resorts at WDW than elsewhere. Consider the DVC booths at the WDW theme parks and the DVC desks at the Disney resort hotels. At those locations, DVC is able to reach Disney's core audience. How can Disney reach potential customers at HH and VB? And how much value does the Disney brand have at those locations?

Also, Disney enjoys a substantial cost structure advantage at WDW where Disney still has many thousands of undeveloped acres -- most of which were purchased in the 1960s for around $300 per acre. In comparison, Disney Vacation Development (DVD) had to buy expensive land at HH and VB. One story I've heard about Disney's Newport Coast site is that the land was so expensive that the business economics of the project were questionable. Obviously, Marriott thought otherwise (and Marriott's has had to accelerate construction in an effort to keep up with the demand at Newport Coast Villas).

Sure, as a DVC owner at WDW, it's great to have HH and VB as options, and it would be even better to have more off-site DVC options. But each of those resorts would need to be a profitable business venture for Disney Vacation Development. By ceasing any additional off-site development after HH and VB, Disney made it obvious that off-site timehshare development was not a profitable business for them.

[Dumbo]

Vero Beach and Hilton Head are smaller resorts compared to the WDW resorts. Vero Beach opened on October 1, 1995. Hilton
Head opened on March 1, 1996. Disney has been selling these resorts for over 6 years now and they still are not sold out.

Compare that to the larger Villas at Wilderness Lodge that sold out in approx. 1 year.


Dumbo

[Richyams]

Both HH and VB are beautiful resorts, among the finest in the world.


They were also horrible mistakes.

I am happy to have them as options, but the dismal sales at these resorts eliminated any possibility of ever seeing an off site DVC resort again.

[JonHM]

I've only been a member for less than a year, so I don't know nearly as much about this topic as some of the other posters on this thread. That said, however, I *would* like to put in my .02 about where I think Disney went wrong with HH and VB - a newbie's perspective, if you will. ;)

The point structure is all messed up.

In my view, we (DVC members) are all Disney obsessed to one degree or another (or at least WDW obsessed :) ), so Disney should have recognized that the *really* big draw in DVC was going to be on-site Villas. Now, given that, there would need to be some sort of real incentive for people to buy at the off-site locations.

And by real, I don't mean a slightly bigger 'magical beginnings' rebate. There needs to be some incentive to actually *own* at HH or VB, beyond the 11 month window. And my real problem with VB and HH (in theory, because I've never seen either of them, but have heard that they are both absolutely beautiful) is that the point structure is just TOO darned close to the on-site resorts! From the ethno-centric viewpoint of the WDW obsessed, anywhere else should cost less (a LOT less) than on-site, because not having WDW closeby is a HUGE drawback.

So IMHO, HH and VB should be a lot cheaper, points wise, than they are. Apart from that, there would need to be some real incentive for people to actually *own* there, not just *stay* there. The only thing I could think of would be a points discount at HH or VB if you actually own there - but I am sure that that would create more problems than it would solve - it might break timeshare laws, and if not would create a tremendous ruckus at the onsite properties about getting points discounts at one's home resort.

But as it stands now, not only is there very little incentive to use one's points on HH or VB, because they cost so close to on-site, but there is *extremely* little incentive to actually *buy* there as a home resort.

Again, this is a newbie's perspective, and one that is colored by the fact that we cannot afford a huge number of points. If we had 500 or 600 points or more, then I would eliminate the 'incentive to stay' argument - but the 'incentive to own' argument would still exist, in my mind.

Thanks for letting me vent. I'll shut up now... :D

[stlrod]

There are plenty of incentives to own at HHI. Any comparable property on HHI (Marriott) is going to cost more. You will also not have unit-size flexibility. I am a long-time Marriott owner who bought DVC on HHI for one reason only: a 5-night stay over the summer cost half as much as a week at Marriott's BB. Also in DVC's favor is the ability to get a 1BR or a Grand Villa as the need arises. The downside of Disney is that it does not from the beach (most people want that.)

[stlrod]

There are plenty of incentives to own at HHI. Any comparable property on HHI (Marriott) is going to cost more. You will also not have unit-size flexibility. I am a long-time Marriott owner who bought DVC on HHI for one reason only: a 5-night stay over the summer cost half as much as a week at Marriott's BB. Also in DVC's favor is the ability to get a 1BR or a Grand Villa as the need arises. The downside of Disney is that it does not from the beach (most people want that.)

[JonHM]

I didn't mean to be attacking HH or VB in any way. As I said, from everything I've heard, they are beautiful resorts. From an objective perspective, or the perspective of a timeshare buyer, I am sure that there are plenty of incentives.

I was speaking exclusively from the perspective of the WDW obsessed. ;)

No insult to VB or HH in the 'real' world...

[Granny]

JonHM....I didn't think you were attacking VB or HH at all. I just thought you were providing an opinion on the DVC value proposition at those locations. I think we were both thinking along the same lines.

That is, at WDW Disney holds a competitive edge and can command more margin on its product than when it has to compete head to head with other time shares....it's just economics.

And I didn't even think about the cheap land they own (as pointed out by Werner Weiss) which makes it even more profitable to build at WDW.

Having said all that, I could see getting an HH resale somewhere down the line to ensure the ressie advantage during the prime golf season! It looks like an awesome resort and Doc's and others eloquent descriptions make me hungry to check it out!

[ZerasPride]

Speaking as a HH owner (and sometimes on this board I feel I need a thick skin as a Hilton Head owner) I wasn't offended by this discussion. It is obvious VB and HH are not the "hot" properties that the on-site resorts have proved to be. Do I regret my HH purchase? Heck no! I am a proud HH owner. I am struggling with which resort to make a modest add-on purchase (my home resort or the new BCV). Unlike for some, stormalong bay does not hold our fascination. We prefer the quiet pools so that is not a factor for us. Also, even though its nice to walk to MGM and Epcot, my family was not fond of walking all the way through the IG to Future World.

My point is, each DVC property has its fans and Disney may never build another off-site resort again but I am happy to own where I do. HH is quiet and relaxing - frankly I can't believe I can have a great vacation and not ride Space Mountain but it is possible for me and quite enjoyable. I did not purchase DVC to stay exclusively at HH. It is where we will stay most of the time but I do plan on sampling each of the DVC resorts over the next 40 years. If I could only stay at one property for 40 years, I would never have made a DVC purchase. I know the 11/7 month windows are important and essential at peak holiday times, but I purchased DVC to be able to cruise, stay at the conceirge collection resorts, my home resort, Disneyland resorts and yes, on property resorts. I just love DVC and am happy to be a member!

Lisa

[ncligs]

ZerasPride ,
We agree with you, we purchased an add -on at VB(110), we may only go there every other yr right now. But we may want to go more often and longer when we are retired, especially in the winter months. We have the majority of our pts at OKW(300), but we wanted to have VB as a home resort also.We plan on using all DVC options in the next 40 yrs.........:D

Werner Weiss said...All indications are that HH and VB are diappointments only from a Disney business perspective. According to the reports on this board, HH and VB are outstanding resorts.

He is right, VB and HH are only "dissapointing for Disney's Business side of it. All the people who own at VB and HH, and have been there absolutely love it there. And thats good if others don't want to go there...it will be easier for us VB-HH owners to get the ressies that we need, anytime that we want then...;)

[Dean]

Originally posted by stlrod
There are plenty of incentives to own at HHI. Any comparable property on HHI (Marriott) is going to cost more. You will also not have unit-size flexibility. I am a long-time Marriott owner who bought DVC on HHI for one reason only: a 5-night stay over the summer cost half as much as a week at Marriott's BB. Also in DVC's favor is the ability to get a 1BR or a Grand Villa as the need arises. The downside of Disney is that it does not from the beach (most people want that.) While I understand the thinking, I'm not sure I totally agree with it. To say 5 days at DVC is half of Marriott Barony or Grande Ocean is misleading. For summer, you're talking 165 points for 5 days excluding Fri and Sat at about $12375 (current cost) and yearly fees of around $528 per year while you can buy an Platinum (summer) oceanside unit at GO for around $17000 out the door with yearly fees about $650 and are guaranteed a summer week. Both are flexible in their own way. Remember you're talking 5 vs 7 days in addition to the oceanfront location. With Marriott you have a choice of weeks within a season but only one unit size. With DVC, you have to compete with other owners but have a choice of unit size and exact time of year. They both offer different things but overall, I'd consider Marriott cheaper for someone wanting a 2 BR and with the trading options, more flexible in some ways, less in others. DVC is certianly cheaper for smaller units and Marriott HH doesn't offer 3 BR units.

Location wise DVC is more comparable to Marriott's Harbour Pointe and Sunset Pointe where you can buy a full week, 2 BR for as low as $6500. DVC is a nicer resort than SP or HP but certainly not than Barony or Grande Ocean. So I guess it depends on how you'll use it and what's important to you. I've stayed at DVC and 3 Marriott's on HH and enjoyed them all. I just enjoyed Grande Ocean much better than all of the rest and being directly on the beach and closer to the action is worth any trade off's for us.

[Johnnie Fedora]

We own at VWL, BCV and HHI. Personally, it was the 2 offsite options that helped sell me on the DVC concept. I didn't want to exclusively stay at WDW, as there are so many extra costs associated with vacationing there (especially when there is no "good" DVC pass discount ;) ).

We had a wonderful vacation at HH in January, and spent less than $300.00 out of pocket. That is almost unheard of at WDW. In addition, the HH point structure allows you to stay at holiday times without getting gouged on points like you are at the onsites. HH is the perfect option for vacationing when the kids are out of school, These times are very crowded at WDW; I'd rather vacation in the "off season" at the parks.

[vernon]

I've stayed at ( and LOVED) both Vero and HH BUT from an economic point of view neither were/are a raging success for Disney, they had a lot of capital tied up in both projects for a lot longer than they were anticipating, indeed at Vero they would still be stuck with a large area of undeveloped land had they not sold that tranche off. For that reason I think it very unlikely that Disney will look at another "out of park" site. IF there was the land available I think one could make a decent argument for a DVC in/next to Disneyland in California but I don't believe there is any land available ( at anywhere NEAR a sensible cost) and I also believe the authorities in that area were not helpful when Disney were looking to buy some land that did become available.

On the comments about a DVC at DL Paris, I don't think this will EVER go ahead, because 1) DLP isn't owned by Disney 2) all the problems associated with locations outside of WDW and 3) because DLP is never going to be more than a 3 day location for the vast majority of visitors.
I think a reasonable rate of exchange for the hotels at DLP is more than sufficient to cover any needs that visiting DVC owners are going to have. .

[Richyams]

I think its funny how this question keeps coming up. I do understand it, it would be nice to have more options within DVC, but there is no chance at all we will ever see another off site DVC resort again.

HH and VB were such dismal failures.

[KirstenB]

Rich, HH and VB may have not produced the revenue that DVC had planned on, but as an OKW owner, boy am I glad we have these options. Have you visited either resort? I know you live in Fla, so it costs you less to get to WDW than most of us.

MY dh and I are thinking about having another child. I tell ya, HH will be getting my vacation vote for several years if we do.

The thought of a 14 hour drive (or 4 plane tix), plus park hoppers, etc vs. a 7 hour drive, with no crowds, no pressures; its just a no-brainer.

Finally, I have to tell ya, the negative labels you put on any resort other than OKW---it's just getting old. The fact of the matter is, it's wonderful to have choices.

[stlrod]

Dean, I'm not meaning to knock Marriott (I am an owner also.) However, I assume you are using resale prices for Marriott since GO is sold-out. If so, it's only fair to use resale prices for Disney which would generally be about $65 per point rather than $75. Half is probably a bit of an overstatement (using that comparison the DVC cost would be about 63% of the GO cost.) If you compare direct-from-developer prices for the summer season for 165 points at DVC and the lowest priced unit at BB for that season (which is a fairly decent walk to the beach with no view) it comes a little closer to half. Either way, it is a substantial difference.

[ncligs]

KirstenB said....Rich, HH and VB may have not produced the revenue that DVC had planned on, but as an OKW owner, boy am I glad we have these options. Have you visited either resort? I know you live in Fla, so it costs you less to get to WDW than most of us.
-------------------------------------------------

Very good points you made to Rich. I am sure that living in Florida makes it a lot easier for Rich to be "pro-WDW" on site.:D

[JonHM]

Am I the only one who thinks that a night at HH or VB during most times of the year should be significantly cheaper, points wise, than the on-site resorts? I know for the most part, in most seasons, they *are* cheaper, but often not by much at all.

[KirstenB]

Jon, I haven't much time to think this through right now, but if you had significantly lower point values, wouldn't those resorts be "full" all the time? I mean you could have one owner booking there for weeks or even months at a time, and if you had quite a few people doing that, the rest of us would never be able to book.

I see what you're saying in theory, that staying onsite at WDW commands a serious premium, but I'm not sure how it would actually work out.

Please, somebody who is much smarter with numbers than me---would Jon's idea work?

[Dean]

Originally posted by stlrod
Dean, I'm not meaning to knock Marriott (I am an owner also.) However, I assume you are using resale prices for Marriott since GO is sold-out. If so, it's only fair to use resale prices for Disney which would generally be about $65 per point rather than $75. Half is probably a bit of an overstatement (using that comparison the DVC cost would be about 63% of the GO cost.) If you compare direct-from-developer prices for the summer season for 165 points at DVC and the lowest priced unit at BB for that season (which is a fairly decent walk to the beach with no view) it comes a little closer to half. Either way, it is a substantial difference. No insult taken, just want those that don't know what we're talking about to get an idea of the pluses and minuses. It all depends on how you look at it. GO can be had for around $17K platinum and as little as $4000-6000 off season, resale. Enough points for DVC for a 2 BR for 7 days in summer is certainly more than that, closer to $20000. Of course if one goes for 5 days (which you can't do with Marriott), the cost is less but only about $6000 less (roughly 2/3). It's always been funny to me how everyone talks location at WDW and ignores that portion at HH. There are a lot of benefits to DVC and to Marriott so what's best for one is not the same as another and therefore the costs are relative to the desires and situation, trading, planned usage and any other factor that is important for any given family. Both DVC and the top Marriott's are to be envied and treasured.

[stlrod]

As usual Dean, we probably agree more than we disagree. You are correct: there are pluses and minuses. Since I already have a tradeable Marriott, I bought DVC HH with the intention of using it there every other year with some ocassional use at WDW. If I were buying with a desire to trade, DVC wouldn't even make the short list. As for location, GO is clearlythe most desirable due to the large number of units with an ocean-view. I myself, however, prefer the low-country views at DVC. BB is not, in my view, in a desirable location. Very few units are oceanview and for those you have to pay the big bucks (30K).

[CaptainMidnight]

My opinion is that Vero Beach and Hilton Head options have helped boost WDW DVC sales. Many people are not interested in WDW "only" options, having offsite resorts as part of the package helps sell the WDW resorts. People are purchasing a package of resorts, not just a single resort.

As a Vero Beach and Beach Club owner, I greatly enjoy the peacefulness of the Vero resort and I'm glad it was an option, it was my preference. We don't intend to go to WDW every vacation, every year.

Sometimes this line of discussion get into Vero beach ownership "bashing," the repitition of which gets old and bothersome for those of us who are very happy with our Vero purchase. I'm not convinced that slower sales is that horrible, if there have been enough cash accomodations to balance out and keep the resort finances in shape. I'm also glad they will not be building additional villas on the non-ocean side of the resort, I woudn't want to stay across the road. Vero seems to be selling out consistent with the projections I was told 3 years ago.

I like Vero, and I'm looking forward to my next trip home there. It will certainly cost me less than my next trip to the Beach Club Villas. That's why we have our home resort purchases set up the way we do, relaxing beach vacations, and Beach Club center of the WDW action vacations. I'm also looking forward to a stay at my other preferred resort in my DVC package of resorts, WLV.

[Dean]

Originally posted by CaptainMidnight
My opinion is that Vero Beach and Hilton Head options have helped boost WDW DVC sales. Many people are not interested in WDW "only" options, having offsite resorts as part of the package helps sell the WDW resorts. People are purchasing a package of resorts, not just a single resort. I think you're right however most people who speak of HH and VB do so in the tone of I also like to occassionally go to VB/HH. It's an add on but not a main part of their desire. Obviously that's not true for everyone but I'm sure it is for many. That's part of the reason it's taken so long to sell out what are relatively small resorts in addition to the seasonal nature of the resorts. A points system starts to break down somewhat when there is such a wide range of desireability such as at HH. That's what Rich means when he says they are "failures" and in many ways, he is correct. That doesn't make them bad resorts, they are far from it.

stlrod, I was sure we were pretty close. I tend to point out just the points I feel are different than many are thinking and assume the rest. HH DVC is a great resort and the points system very flexible in many ways. But with 2 GO platinum weeks I am virtually assured of 4th of July with 2 units every year and I am guaranteed that one of them is Ocean Front and one isn't. I can also book them 13 months out, 1 month earlier than single week owners. That makes them easy to trade with II, trade privately, use or rent out. We will likely use them every other year and rent or trade them privately otherwise. I also own at Harbour Pointe which I use strictly for trading and it's been wonderful for that purpose. It's also a nice resort with similar but slighlty bestter views than DVC though DVC is a nicer resort overall.

[Johnnie Fedora]

I hope to never have to do this, but if we ever had to sell some of our points, HH would be the last to go, due to the overall affordability of a vacation there. The off-sites offer our family a great vacation at minimal additional expense. Besides, except for maybe holiday time, they could always be exchanged for OKW at the 7 month window.;) :D

[sumessefui]

I love having VB & HH as alternatives. Staying at VB for 2-3 days before going to WDW is great. Not being a beach person,I would not want to own at VB. HH was great and we did do a subatantial addon there and part of the lure was it not being on the beach. I love looking out over the marsh early in the morning.
It would be nice to have other DVC offsite options, but I don't think the DVD wanted to go through the hassle of trying to compete with the timeshare giants, when it's so easy to sell at WDW. It is just a shame that they could not have formed some sort of parternership with one of them.

[Califgirl]

I haven't been on the boards since this topic was introduced, so forgive me for getting to the original topic of a Calif. DVC resort. Indeed, Disney did have land and plans to build a DVC resort and then sold the land off. My understanding was that due to Calif. real estate laws they could not build a RTU (right to use with an ending date) resort.

In December, while I was staying at the Grand Californian Hotel, I heard a RUMOR (from a very good source - the source did not consider it a rumor) that DVC was going to add a resort adjacent to the Grand Californian. So, either Calif. has changed the real estate laws, or perhaps DVC will be changing from a RTU to permanent deeded property? In any case, something seems to have changed. I will welcome a DVC property at Disneyland, and if it comes to pass, you can bet I'll be adding on a contract there!

[TIdoublegaER]

I must pipe in and "defend" my home.

It is my understanding from talking to CMs that VB and HH are not "dissapointments." They, in fact, are on track with their projected sales. From their inception DVD didn't expect them to sell as quickly as WDW resorts. Therefore, the fact that they didn't sell-out in one year (VWL) was not the measurement of "failure."

I own at HH (first purchace) and OKW. There are certainly attractive features of owning "off-site." We bought because of the beauty of the island, accesability of the beach, and of course because of the "disney magic." It is the location coupled with the attraction of disney that sells (would sell) off-site resorts.

I'm not totally naive. I see DVD's redirection towards WDW sites. I really do believe, however, if the correct loction is chosen ... DVC could be wonderfully successful at another location.

[jmatias]

Hi Califgirl,

I heard the same rumor while at Disneyland during Xmas 2001.

Interesting how my original question about any potential West Coast DVC took a turn to a discussion of the East Coast DVCs.

All I know is from my Marriott timeshare perspective: Southern California properties are extremely popular trades and that there are not enough "quality" resorts in SoCal.

I do have a list given to us by a Marriott sales rep in Hawaii that lists potential Marriott resorts and one location states Anaheim. So maybe once again, Disney is letting Marriott do the building.

When I read the posts, I noticed that majority of DVC owners on the board are Rockies to East Coast.

IMHO, DVC has a huge market in the WEST just dying for a resort...and one of those potential customers is me!

Aloha,
Jen

[stlrod]

Sorry for my hand in moving the conversation towards the East. As for the West, it was fairly easy to get in to Newport Coast this summer by trading my Orlando Marriott unit this year. As sales increase though, that will probably not be the case. The Marriott does have a great deal for anyone wanting to take a tour. For $298, they'll give you 3 nights at the Ritz-Carlton Laguna Niguel and a $50 gift certificate if you stay midweek. If you want more information, e-mail me. As for DVC at Grand Californian, I have one question: How much smaller can DVC make its units? There just isn't room (unless they tear out Calkifornia Adventure which many would probably like to see--not me though--I like it--I do not feel the same way about the GC._

[Richyams]

It is my understanding from talking to CMs that VB and HH are not "dissapointments." They, in fact, are on track with their projected sales.

LOL

Come on, these are not only salesman, they are timeshare salesman, what do you expect them to say??

If they are on track, why did DVD go through the awful experience of lowering the subsidy and dramatically increase the dues? This was not a lightly taken move, this had serious effects.

If they are on track, why is "The other side of the road", nothing but a distant memory?

If they are on track, why is this side of the road only a shadow of its original design?

If they are on track, why did DVD sell all that land???

No, sales were a big dissapointment at VB. HH is not far behind.

If sales were so on track, why has Disney announced at least two other DVC resorts only to cancel plans?

Sorry, but VB and HH were not anywhere near "On track", not even close.

They are both beautiful resorts, truly among the finest on the planet and I am VERY happy to have them as options.....I am also dissapointed that sales were so awful. If sales had been better, we may have had several other off site choices.

[Richyams]

Sorry, one more....

Why has the projected sell out at HH been "next spring" for the last three years?

[CaptainMidnight]

Regardless of the tiresome little baiting game...

Personally, I'd like to see another offsite DVC resort. The West Coast wouldn't be an area I would visit often, but it probably makes sense if another off site DVC location is pursued.

It would also be nice if HH wasn't so difficult to get reservations in during the summer. VB is also experiencing high occupancy levels and reservations can be difficult to get. That in itself says something important.

Each DVC family picks thier home resorts for thier own reasons, the options are wonderful. I personally bought in as a package, not just a single resort, and plan to spend the majority of my Vero Beach ownership at Vero Beach, but look forward to visiting other resorts as well.

I would favor another DVC offsite resort that is within driving range. We don't tend to fly. The Gulf coast of Texas also seemed like an option in another part of the country. In think that warmer areas extend the season of the resort longer. That is probably an issue with HH and it's availability, since it seems many owners prefer the summer months there.

[lrodk]

Yes indeed. The Grand Californian has an undeveloped parcel that has long been ear-marked for a future DVC developement. When they do I'll be one of the first ones there.

[Richyams]

It would be real nice to have a California DVC. Land at DL may even make it a possibility. If HH and VB hadn't have been such awful, brutal failures, we would have see them already.

It would be real nice to have more options. I think that they were burned so badly with HH and VB that is is VERY unlikely we will see any off WDW resorts open, and we will never see a DVC off WDW and off DL.

[CaptainMidnight]

It makes lots of sense to have a DVC resort near the California location. Hope to see it.

I'd like to see future offsite locations within driving distance, instead of requiring air travel, the Texas coast might also be a great location.

We certainly enjoy our Vero Beach ownership, and the peacefulness of the resort as an alternative to the activity of WDW. A vacation that is part WDW and part beach works out very nicely for us. A location along the California coast in reasonable proximity to Disneyland could be wonderful for West Coast folks.

[mittelst]

I may be in the minority, but I too would like to see one or two more non-WDW resorts. DVC has _many_ positive features as timeshares go, but I would like an easier way to visit non-WDW resorts. I am not (yet) an owner, and this is one of the things holding me back. The Concierge Collection seems point-pricey, and I haven't read about many experiences trading via II for Member Getaway resorts. I'm lead to believe not many people do this. If I were to see positive experiences with II trades, I would be much more encouraged.

Thanks for listening!

(Still hoping to get an OKW resale someday!)

[druzicka]

My cousin is a CM at Disneyland/California Adventure. He says Disney just bought an old strawberry farm right on Harbor Blvd
(kinda adjacent to Dolphin's Cove Resort). It's rumored they will be building a water park there. There seems to be enough room there for another DVC resort, and seems like it would be a good move since there is a shortage of timeshare destinations around DL. HOPING...
Druz


:D

[jcodespoti]

I agree with rich that VB and HH are a disapointment from the money side of things, although VB is a top notch resort (never been to HHI). I look forward to going there again. I have very little interest in a west coast DVC. For me its just to far to go on a regular basis. I also don't think that a DVC resort would work in the Northeast. They seem to work best at WDW (probably would work at DL too but I am not sure).

Joe in CT

[CaptainMidnight]

mittelst,
Glad to have you posting here, thanks for sharing your views, I agree with many of them. We are Vero beach owners, along with BCV, we like offsite vacations in addition to onsite.

You'll find some offsite resort bashing by a small minority of posters, but if you aren't familiar with some of thier past negative posting history, you may give that small minority's views more credibility or attention than they really deserve. Your point about trading and the high point cost for Concierge Collection are good ones, and help make a case for more offsite locations and DVC alternatives other than those directly in WDW. I agree with you and hope to see more offsite successes like the successes I see in Hilton Head and Vero Beach resorts where it is becoming increasingly hard to get reservations without the 11 month window, and both resorts almost sold out, if not already. The resonable point value for DVC resorts certainly makes them more desirable than trading out. We don't happen to, but you may be surprised at how many DVC owners also own another type of timeshare for thier offsite vacations. I'd prefer additional DVC locations myself.

Hope to see you continuing to post here in the future. This is a great place to get good information about DVC.