Villa availability on the internet... any chance?

[disney dumbo]

Sure would be nice if I could see villa availablity on the computer! I don't care if it wasn't 100% accurate... ball park would be helpful. I don't care if I can't book online... at least I could think through the process of what I want to book before calling MS.

Every time I check on a reservation... and it's not exactly what I need... I hang up and then think... well what about ___________ is it available? Then another 20 minute hold session. :surfweb: UGH!

Hate it that my brain doesn't come up with all the combinations I need... until I hang up!

Seems like Disney could do that fairly easily on the DVC site... it's member protected and all! :idea:

[Caskbill]

This very topic has been discussed here in the past. The thought is they could download a 'snapshot' of availability every night that members could simply display. It would not be a 'live' display, but just what the reservation status was at the close of business the preceeding day.

This would be much easier than having a full fledged on-line reservations system, and could cut down on the phone calls quite a bit.

As to whether DVC has any such plans or not is anybody's guess.

[crisi]

It may also increase the number of complaints - "what do you mean there isn't availablity, you had six of those rooms available yesterday!" People have expectations of real time data - difficult with reservation systems.

[JimMIA]

I'm with crisi. I don't think online availability checks -- even realtime -- are of any benefit, and would probably cause more problems than the system would be worth.

DVC needs online booking. They need to drag their computer system into the 20th century -- it's not like online booking of anything is really a revolutionary idea!

From the info Doc posted during the association meetings, it seems there is a glitch in DVC's survey. They ask people how they would prefer to book, and it sounds like there can only be one way. In addition, most people equate "online" with the current email booking they have. Not many of us would give up the real, live CMs at MS for email booking, so most people select telephone. From that flawed survey, DVC thought we didn't want online booking -- or so they said (it's kinda hard to believe they're actually that dense, but...).

Hopefully, we will eventually get realtime online booking like Motel 6 has, and keep the ability to talk to a CM when we need to. It would drastically reduce their MS workload and wait times.

[CarolMN]

I'm not advocating for online booking until the complaints about the current system are resolved. And not until the "fixes" run flawlessly for at least a month!

Online booking for points reservations is complicated. Given all the complaints there are about the current website (not available, log in screen flaky, can't bank, etc.) does anyone really think DVC is willing and able to do a decent online reservation system?

I don't think DVC is willing to spend the money it would take to put an online system online and I'm not sure they should (if it's our dues money that will pay for it).

In the meantime, I think a nightly snapshot would be a good thing. It would be easy enough to put a disclaimer on it that says it's just a snapshot and not real time data.

[JimMIA]

Online booking for points reservations is complicated. Given all the complaints there are about the current website (not available, log in screen flaky, can't bank, etc.) does anyone really think DVC is willing and able to do a decent online reservation system?You know, I read those posts just like we all do. But I have NEVER had a problem logging in. I've never had a problem bringing up my account records -- either points or dues. I've never had a problem paying dues online. I've never had a problem banking online.

I don't doubt that some people have difficulties, but I haven't had them.

I also don't see that a booking system for points is any more difficult than a standard hotel booking system for a hotel chain that has multiple properties and several types of rooms at each site. This is not rocket science.

As far as cost, I think it's a "pay me now, pay me later" choice. As membership grows, the staff at MS will have to grow, and the wait times on the phones will probably grow. Online booking is WAY cheaper in the long run -- which is exactly why all of the large hotel chains (with booking options 50 times more complicated than DVC) use online booking.

Even WDW, as technologically backward as their Internet sites are, has online booking.

[snowbunny]

I also don't see that a booking system for points is any more difficult than a standard hotel booking system for a hotel chain that has multiple properties and several types of rooms at each site. This is not rocket science.

Completely agree. Not only motels but airlines have figured out how much cheaper it is to make people book online - I had to pay a $15 fee last month to book through a UA agent (in India) because I needed to speak to a human being for something specific.

I fail to see how hotel reservation booking, even with points, is more complicated that airline booking with its many levels of fares, cancellations (esp. Southwest), credits, and logistical issues.

Disney management has been incredibly slow to see the value of a first-class web operation. Not just for DVC but all of WDW. The family of sites is poor.

[disney dumbo]

The thought is they could download a 'snapshot' of availability every night that members could simply display. It would not be a 'live' display, but just what the reservation status was at the close of business the preceeding day.

That would be AWESOME!!! I think it would free up their agents and phone lines so much! I wouldn't want to give up the 800 number and a live agent to talk to... but I'm in a situation with holding account points... and it's driving me crazy to have to call for availablity.

If I had a rough idea... I might could figure out what I could do... and book with 1 phone call... maybe even could do the email. But please don't take the 800 away. Even with all the great info from the wonderful people on this board... DVC life can be complicated!:teacher:

[rsimon]

We were discussing this with DVC people this last week and were told they are working to roll it out this year. So, we'll see.. I'm relatively new to this so I am not sure how much I can trust what they tell me.

[DebbieB]

They have been saying "this year" for the past 3 or 4 years.

I think it is much more complicated than an standard booking system. You have people with multiple contracts, borrowing, banking, etc. Plus many people don't really know the DVC rules - example: they think they have to borrow points to make a reservation now that will actually be current year when the stay takes place. I just think it would be mess considering the current system makes many mistakes with trained MS people doing the reservation.

[disney dumbo]

They have been saying "this year" for the past 3 or 4 years.

I think it is much more complicated than an standard booking system. You have people with multiple contracts, borrowing, banking, etc. Plus many people don't really know the DVC rules - example: they think they have to borrow points to make a reservation now that will actually be current year when the stay takes place. I just think it would be mess considering the current system makes many mistakes with trained MS people doing the reservation.

I agree a booking system would be complicated... but a picture of availablity would be soooooo helpful! (and easy!)

[dianeschlicht]

I'm not advocating for online booking until the complaints about the current system are resolved. And not until the "fixes" run flawlessly for at least a month!

Online booking for points reservations is complicated. Given all the complaints there are about the current website (not available, log in screen flaky, can't bank, etc.) does anyone really think DVC is willing and able to do a decent online reservation system?

I don't think DVC is willing to spend the money it would take to put an online system online and I'm not sure they should (if it's our dues money that will pay for it).

In the meantime, I think a nightly snapshot would be a good thing. It would be easy enough to put a disclaimer on it that says it's just a snapshot and not real time data.

Yep, my thoughts exactly. I do NOT want a half***** system that doesn't work any better than their current one does. I frankly like being able to talk to someone when I book. We have all seen instances where someone starts to rebook a reservation, cancels their existing one, and before the agent gets it completed, the new one is no longer available. Those kinds of issues would be amplified greatly in a totally online system. I'm one of those who always votes "no" on the on-line booking issue when I get that survey after an MS call.

[dvcdisney]

I'm with crisi. I don't think online availability checks -- even realtime -- are of any benefit, and would probably cause more problems than the system would be worth.

DVC needs online booking. They need to drag their computer system into the 20th century -- it's not like online booking of anything is really a revolutionary idea!

From the info Doc posted during the association meetings, it seems there is a glitch in DVC's survey. They ask people how they would prefer to book, and it sounds like there can only be one way. In addition, most people equate "online" with the current email booking they have. Not many of us would give up the real, live CMs at MS for email booking, so most people select telephone. From that flawed survey, DVC thought we didn't want online booking -- or so they said (it's kinda hard to believe they're actually that dense, but...).

Hopefully, we will eventually get realtime online booking like Motel 6 has, and keep the ability to talk to a CM when we need to. It would drastically reduce their MS workload and wait times.


I agree as well. DVC does need online booking. I'm sure they can upgrade their system to be in line with so many other airlines, hotels etc that offer online booking. I think they should have on the members only website an account where your available points can be used. :idea: And when you start choose the date and resort, the total points that you can use can flash in front of you so for those that are not sure, you will be able to know how many points you are eligible to use based on home resort priority, banked, borrowed and available points. Does this seem reasonable?

I do believe this will cut down on the phone call to MS. And it would leave more time for those who choose not to use online or those with special requirements that only MS can handle. Other than that, everyone else should be able to book it online.

I would understand that there may be concerns about hours of MS. To be fair, I think that online booking should only be available during the MS hours.

As for checking availability online. I don't think it would be that helpful because unless you book it, it may not be there the next second. For me, I wouldn't get my hopes up if I look at the availability and it's there. Nothing is guaranteed until it's booked.

As for the survey, I chose online booking because I thought they were truly looking into this and thought that if more people would prefer online booking, they will introduce it. But I see what you mean about many people thinking it meant email booking. And yes, in that case I would have chosen telephone.

[Tinker74]

I agree with Carol....:thumbsup2

[crisi]

I agree a booking system would be complicated... but a picture of availablity would be soooooo helpful! (and easy!)

I accidently clicked over on rent trade - and something occurred to me, and I think rentals alone are the reason Disney will never put in a simple "check for availability" system. They really don't seem to like rentals (and from their point of view, that makes sense) and they really don't want to give us additional functionality that makes renting points easier. Being able to check availability over the internet - even if its "as of last night" will make life a lot easier for people who rent.

[tjkraz]

Taking Member Services hours to 7 full working days per week doesn't strike me as a move they'd be making if plans were in the works to provide alternative booking methods.

[abner1776]

I originally thought that a "picture" of availability would be great and I was thinking back to last night when I saw great airfares of $184 RT from Beantown for selected dates and so wanted to know right then and there if the was availability at any of the DVC resorts so I could go ahead and book it...a need a midwinter "sun" fix....

A "picture" of the villa availabilty last night would only tell me if villas were not available, but really would not tell me if villas were available cause I would have to call MS this morning and who knows what may have changed in the meantime. I could have jumped and booked the airfare only to call MS and find out.."no room at the Inn"....ugh...

As far as helping out the renters, the overall issue of renters needs to be addressed once and for all regardless of whether or not this would help or hurt them....but that of course...is a whole nother issue...

[tfc3rid]

Wow... If only Disney would have strong ties with a very innovative computing giant...

Maybe then something could happen....

[crisi]

I originally thought that a "picture" of availability would be great and I was thinking back to last night when I saw great airfares of $184 RT from Beantown for selected dates and so wanted to know right then and there if the was availability at any of the DVC resorts so I could go ahead and book it...a need a midwinter "sun" fix....

A "picture" of the villa availabilty last night would only tell me if villas were not available, but really would not tell me if villas were available cause I would have to call MS this morning and who knows what may have changed in the meantime. I could have jumped and booked the airfare only to call MS and find out.."no room at the Inn"....ugh...

As far as helping out the renters, the overall issue of renters needs to be addressed once and for all regardless of whether or not this would help or hurt them....but that of course...is a whole nother issue...

And thats where the complaints would start - with people being very disappointed that the non-real time web site SAID there was availability and they booked their tickets based off that!

It has to be real time. It has to allow booking. And it has to give you some period of time to back out of the transaction completely - just in case your Ding fare disappeared while you were getting your DVC room.

[ACDSNY]

I agree we need real-time on-line booking system. As a west coaster by the time I get to call MS is closed. The new days/hours will help, but I prefer on-line.

[dianeschlicht]

I agree we need real-time on-line booking system. As a west coaster by the time I get to call MS is closed. The new days/hours will help, but I prefer on-line.

Well, just imagine what this week would have been like with on-line booking! With thousands of people trying to book Holiday reservations day-by-day, the band width would quickly be exceeded and NOBODY would get in to the website any easier than they do on the phone. I think there would many more problems during these high volumn times than we experience right now. Just look at how slow the boards can be sometimes, and multiply that 100fold, and you can see how on-line booking might be a LOT more difficult than phone booking.

[snowbunny]

I still don't see how it is any more complicated or difficult then the mad rush that happens when JetBlue or Southwest opens up new dates. If a worldwide airline such as NWA, which flies to just about every country on the planet, can do it all online, including an easy online process to change flights if you need to (which I have done), then hotel timeshares can book online as well.

I mean yes, it can't be done well with the slow clunky type of web experience for which Disney is known. But it can be done, IF the commitment is there.

If one digs down the memory hole, there were plenty of people who said Amazon.com would never work. Priceline would never work. And so on.

[CarolMN]

I still don't see how it is any more complicated or difficult then the mad rush that happens when JetBlue or Southwest opens up new dates. If a worldwide airline such as NWA, which flies to just about every country on the planet, can do it all online, including an easy online process to change flights if you need to (which I have done), then hotel timeshares can book online as well. The load is certainly a concern, but the complication is mostly because members are paying with points - and a point is not a point is not a point!

There are current use year points, banked points, borrowed points, holding account points, reservations points and transferred points. There are home resort points and non home resort points. Many members own multiple contracts with different use years and different home resorts.

There are different restrictions and rules for using those various types of points. There are many, many more possibilities for combining the various types of points than if you were just using a credit card. Unless you are a true DVC expert, it would be easy to get frustrated trying to do your own booking. It's not like booking a hotel room for cash.

I'm not saying it can't be done - of course it can!

If you think people would complain about a snapshot not being "real time", think how many people would be complaining that they didn't know how to " " or that the system wouldn't let them " " and so they missed getting the reservation they wanted. I do not think an online booking system is as easy as some here seem to think.

It's also very unlikely that the online booking would be 24 by 7 either. At least to start with, I would expect it to be available the same hours as MS. (I also think there are routine maintenance things that have to happen that would prevent 24 hour availability, but I could be wrong about that). The 11 month and 7 month windows would almost certainly open at the same time MS opens the phones for the day, so those of us who aren't in the Eastern time zone will still have to deal with that.

[rsimon]

The server load for the web site and issues with what points are and what they can be used for is not complicated.

There are web sites in use that handle MUCH higher volume than anything DVC could produce and they do it quite well. The rules for the points is just a matter of programming.

This is not a difficult issue, it is just a matter of their priorities not being in this place. Until DVC feels like they need to do this, they won't. It has to be cost effective and allow them to cut costs with Member Services by either laying off people or not hiring new replacements.

Can it be done? Sure it can.. easily. My company develops sites much more complicated all the time. Will it be done? Someday I hope.. :thumbsup2

[tjkraz]

The server load for the web site...is not complicated.

From a technical standpoint, no. But DVC would need to be prepared to incur year-round expense to deal with the highest possible server loads. Obviously some times of the year are more popular than others. And given that members have experienced long excessive wait times and a lot of busy signals over the last month, clearly DVC's call center is not equipped to handle member demand after 16+ years. Even the current website has experienced frequent outages this month.

Bigger companies' websites have been brought to their knees by unforseen demand. Frankly I'd be quite surprised if a DVC on-line booking system wasn't impacted by peak demand issues. I can't see them using additional resources to accommodate traffic levels 100% of the time when they could skirt by on 98-99%.

Can it be done? Sure it can.. easily. My company develops sites much more complicated all the time.

I agree that it CAN be done. But for a self-professed expert, saying that it can be done "easily" seems a little bold. Given the uniqueness of each job, unknown nature of systems currently in place and other systems with which it would have to integrate, I would think a more thorough analysis necessary before branding it an easy job.

Perhaps Disney's IT systems are in the sad shape they are today because people keep trying to convince them how "easily" things can be done. :rolleyes1

[sjdisneywedding]

Perhaps Disney's IT systems are in the sad shape they are today because people keep trying to convince them how "easily" things can be done. :rolleyes1

in todays day and age it would be classified as easy. probably even very easy.

cheap? probably not, but definately easy, a college aged student could do an internship and probably for the most part get it up and running efficiently

[CarolMN]

The server load for the web site and issues with what points are and what they can be used for is not complicated.

There are web sites in use that handle MUCH higher volume than anything DVC could produce and they do it quite well. The rules for the points is just a matter of programming.

This is not a difficult issue, it is just a matter of their priorities not being in this place. Until DVC feels like they need to do this, they won't. It has to be cost effective and allow them to cut costs with Member Services by either laying off people or not hiring new replacements.

Can it be done? Sure it can.. easily. My company develops sites much more complicated all the time. Will it be done? Someday I hope.. :thumbsup2It's not just a development issue - it's also a "human factors" issue. It's about educating all of the members on all the nuances of booking or making it so simple that anyone can do it. I think you are underestimating the value MS adds to the process.

We'll just have to agree that we have different opinions on the matter. :)

And I do hope it will happen one day, too. But I don't think it will happen soon.

[tjkraz]

in todays day and age it would be classified as easy. probably even very easy.

You have no first-hand knowledge of the systems currently in place so that is nothing more than your (uninformed) opinion.

[rsimon]

in todays day and age it would be classified as easy. probably even very easy.

cheap? probably not, but definately easy, a college aged student could do an internship and probably for the most part get it up and running efficiently

Exactly.. I didn't say cheap.. In fact I pointed out they would have to see a financial long term benefit in order to do it. But technically, this type of site (and the interaction with other systems) is not that difficult. I put together systems all the time that deal with many corporate systems at various levels. Been doing much more complicated systems for years so it is not a technical issue.

[snowbunny]

think how many people would be complaining that they didn't know how to " " or that the system wouldn't let them " " and so they missed getting the reservation they wanted. I do not think an online booking system is as easy as some here seem to think.

I certainly agree with that but the fact is - in the end it's less expensive for those who pay for it, in this case the members - otherwise the airlines wouldn't be running their reservation systems online. As I mentioned upthread, because I needed to make a complicated reservation with UA last month, I had to pay $15 to have it handled by a live human halfway across the world. Perhaps a model for those members who can't/won't learn to book online...LOL

[tjkraz]

I certainly agree with that but the fact is - in the end it's less expensive for those who pay for it, in this case the members - otherwise the airlines wouldn't be running their reservation systems online.

I see two important distinctions:

1. Airlines must offer on-line reservations for competitive reasons. Every other airline has on-line capabilities thus the one that did not simply would not survive. The same cannot be said for DVC.

2. The volume of transactions is vastly different. Airlines handle hundreds-of-thousands (if not millions) of transactions daily for hundreds of destinations. DVC handles several hundred transactions over 8 destinations.

The main problem I have with this debate is that if the job were as simple as many would lead us to believe, it would be done already. Period. If there's one thing Jim Lewis has proven in the 4 years or so he has been head of DVC, it's that he is no fool. If all it took was a college studend paid a couple hundred thousand dollars and a case of Mountain Dew, the job would already be done. End of story.

As for us paying for the job, I disagree with that, too. DVC is funded by a fixed 12% of our dues, regardless of their actual operating expenses. If there is any money to be saved in a project like this, the money is DVC's. It would also be their money spent to make on-line bookings a reality, which I suspect is a big reason it has not happened yet.

I believe DVC has been waiting for membership to reach some critical mass where the volume of calls actually justifies the investment in on-line bookings. Perhaps that threshold has already been passed and the project is underway. :)

[snowbunny]

I see two important distinctions:

1. Airlines must offer on-line reservations for competitive reasons. Every other airline has on-line capabilities thus the one that did not simply would not survive.

I have no data in hand, but I don't think the airlines are doing it for competitive reasons. If that were the case some would not also be charging to talk to a human. It's simply cheaper for them.

Another example: first time I got a SW Ding and wanted to cancel and rebook at the lower fare, I called SW unsure what to do. The very nice agent would not even do it for me - she walked me through how to do it myself online.

[crisi]

I have no data in hand, but I don't think the airlines are doing it for competitive reasons. If that were the case some would not also be charging to talk to a human. It's simply cheaper for them.

I have a friend who project managed the NWA move to online reservations - 10 years ago now? It was a fiasco. For the first few years it cost more to use the web site. The ROI turned out to be much longer than the three years promised. They had a ton of complaints. It was more expensive than they thought.

Now, ten years later, the software has all been depreciated, the bugs worked out, and now its more cost effective for them to have you use the web. But for the first few years it wasn't. And for the next few it was break even.

Companies generally make decisions based on either a 3 or a 5 year ROI - and they usually expect a fairly high return when doing time value of money calculations on that ROI (my company its 3 years and 17%! Its almost impossible to get an IT project to have a 3year 17% ROI - our IT gets funded off other justifications). The big scandal in the web enabled world was that few of these project had a 3 or 5 year ROI.

DVC has a system more complicated than most with banking and borrowing/points windows/ points in holding. Cash systems nowadays are easy - you can just plug in someone else's payment system into your web project - or its been developed so many times that you can easily leverage previous work. So immediately, you are faced with non-traditional development challenges that are going to increase cost. Then you have a fairly small user base to spread the cost over. DVC is getting bigger, but as TJ points out, they may just be waiting for a critical user mass - web reservations is something that takes advantage of scale - on a very small scale its easy and worth it, or a very large scale its difficult and worth it. And somewhere in between it is neither easy nor worth it. My own guess is that Disney has been sitting in that place, and is probably close to exiting it in terms of size.

As to my own credentials for these guesses, I'm a trained accountant (though I've never practiced as an accountant), a twenty year IT project manager, and my husband runs a top ten eCommerce web site that has its own issues with real time inventory - despite throwing hundreds of millions of dollars at it.

[disney dumbo]

I originally thought that a "picture" of availability would be great and I was thinking back to last night when I saw great airfares of $184 RT from Beantown for selected dates and so wanted to know right then and there if the was availability at any of the DVC resorts so I could go ahead and book it...a need a midwinter "sun" fix....

A "picture" of the villa availabilty last night would only tell me if villas were not available, but really would not tell me if villas were available cause I would have to call MS this morning and who knows what may have changed in the meantime. I could have jumped and booked the airfare only to call MS and find out.."no room at the Inn"....ugh...

I still think a picture would be useful. What if on Sunday night while you are looking at airfares... you saw where one set of dates MAY NOT be available... you think about other dates that MAY BE available. Then when you call MS you have some choices Monday morning.

As it is you are completely in the dark. Without it... you might come up with "X" number of choices prior to your calling MS. Those "X" number may not work. If you had a picture... you'd have time to figure out 2-3 additional options where it looks like an OPPORTUNITY to book. You may decide you'd take 2 studios instead of the 2BR... just to stay where you want. Or instead of March, maybe May would work, etc. You'd have enough info to evaluate endless combinations. As it is... every thought... another phone call.

If I was just getting a picture... I would still not purchase any airfare until MS booked. I would know it was subject to change or be inaccurate. But it would be helpful to me.

And it would open up the phone lines for booking and other important situations.

[kapeman]

I think some form of on-line availability would be a huge improvement.

I know that it can be done, but I don't see the will from DVD to do it, yet.


I would say that I don't see how it would help the potential renters since they wouldn't have the credentials to log into the site to see the information.

With respect to the peak traffic, you can just about guarantee that there will always be a significant portion of users that will use the phone system.

Also, not all transactions are super-complicated and many can be quick hits that can easily be done electronically. For the really complicated transactions, even I would prefer to call MS.

One thing I truly cannot understand is the attitude about this topic that some people have, the "I don't want it, so it shouldn't be."
If you don't want to use it, that's great, don't use it.

I don't think that anyone has ever advocated replacing the phone system for an electronic one.

Having said all that, I do agree that if any electronic system is implemented it had better be a good one.

[BWV Dreamin]

I would say that I don't see how it would help the potential renters since they wouldn't have the credentials to log into the site to see the information.

It won't help the potential renters, but will help the "rentees", or those DVC members who are renting their points.

[snowbunny]

Companies generally make decisions based on either a 3 or a 5 year ROI

Agreed, I'm a 20-year veteran of the corporate world with p&l responsibility. It's a very interesting discussion...with MS going 7 days, even with relatively low-wage CMs, I'm sure these numbers have been crunched, it would be fascinating to see what they look like.

[disney dumbo]

I think some form of on-line availability would be a huge improvement.
.................
One thing I truly cannot understand is the attitude about this topic that some people have, the "I don't want it, so it shouldn't be."
If you don't want to use it, that's great don't use it.

Strongly agree! ;)

IMHO picture of availablity would be easy first step.