DDP changes for 2009? [Archive] - The DIS Discussion Forums

ChelleinNC

01-27-2008, 10:50 AM

Include the tip again or drop the price by 18-20% (instead of a dollar :headache: )

and if I could put a 2nd request, allow a choice of appy or dessert

and one more, 10 year olds are not adults, allow a choice of adult plan or childs plan for 10-12 year olds. If you purchase the adult plan for your 10-12, they order off the adult menu, if you purchase the kids, then only kid menu choices. Some 10 year olds can/will eat the adult food, some (like mine) only want the items on the kids menu. I put this choice last because I know it will never happen.

IWISHFORDISNEY

01-27-2008, 12:08 PM

ONLY one thing. Put it back to the way it was and charge more money to cover the costs. It was way better the other way despite what it would cost to preserve the old plan.

Eoywin

01-27-2008, 12:50 PM

The only thing would be having the tip back... I'm curious to see if there will be any changes for 2009...

bicker

01-27-2008, 03:12 PM

For any big changes, we should know by August, perhaps earlier.

ransom

01-27-2008, 03:20 PM

ONLY one thing. Put it back to the way it was and charge more money to cover the costs. It was way better the other way despite what it would cost to preserve the old plan.

:thumbsup2

I liked not having to worry about paying for anything beyond the occasional adult beverage or an extra tip for exceptional service. That, plus being able to get a soup or salad before the entree under the plan, make a huge difference for us.

Mrs Grumpy

01-28-2008, 10:35 AM

I agree with above. I would like to see it go back to the way it was.

Disneylvr

01-28-2008, 11:20 AM

Allow a special kid's rate to allow the kiddos to get food off of the adult menu.

AMEN! I would also like to see the choice offered of a dessert OR an appetizer.

all4fun

01-28-2008, 11:42 AM

Bring back the all-inclusive benefit of the plan.

Increase the price to cover the tip and offset the increased cost of allowing the choice of dessert or appetizer.

I don't mind paying the appropriate amount for a workable plan. Whatever next year's design is, I hope it doesn't continue the current awkward situation Disney has created between guests and servers.

When paying OOP, the tip is not part of the discussion. You leave your cash, or add it to the final credit slip, and you're on your merry way. Putting the server in the position on inquiring about how they are getting paid is very bad show on Disney's part.

I don't know what rocket scientist dreamed up today's scheme, but this current iteration is just too weird for words... :sad2:

bicker

01-28-2008, 11:57 AM

Bring back the all-inclusive benefit of the plan. Increase the price to cover the tip and offset the increased cost of allowing the choice of dessert or appetizer. I don't mind paying the appropriate amount for a workable plan. Whatever next year's design is, I hope it doesn't continue the current awkward situation Disney has created between guests and servers.I suspect with the recession looming, that is increasingly unlikely. Guests are just too likely to punish Disney for raising the price that high. Rather, expect Disney to do as many cruise lines now do, impose a mandatory gratuity, to address the problem. Even though guests still end up paying the same amount, a smaller base price (plus gratuity in the fine print) doesn't have the same kind of negative impact as a higher base price has.

carmiedog

01-30-2008, 01:19 PM

as most, I'd like to see included gratuity in exchange for a higher priced plan (I'm all about convenience!). however, i agree with pp and think we're more likely to see a mandatory oop gratuity instead.

I'd also like a return of appetizers, but not like the previous plan. Looking over the menus, I realized the only real appetizers I was interested in were mainly breads - the rest I could do without. Perhaps to provide an appetizer but still cut down on service time as compared to each individual ordering, a standard table appetizer could be provided - bread with butter or dip, salad bowl, chips/salsa...brought to the table with a stack of plates/bowls. Keep it simple.

ssawka

01-30-2008, 01:34 PM

Treat the desert entitlement like a snack. (i.e. Allow a side item at CS meals instead of only allowing desert.)

ransom

01-30-2008, 01:36 PM

Treat the desert entitlement like a snack. (i.e. Allow a side item at CS meals instead of only allowing desert.)

Good idea!

jm-mom

01-30-2008, 01:36 PM

I think they should overhaul the whole dining plan thing and make it more of a prepaid meal plan. The buyer could buy any number of counter service or table service credits they choose at a set price comparable to what the overall cost is now. If you are more of a counter service family or prefer your resort's food court for many meals you would buy more counter service credits and less table service credits. If you like to take the time to sit down and relax then opt for more table service credits. I guess it should just be more of an a la carte type of arrangement but at a comparable cost to what it is now.

My other thought, overhaul the kids menu. My kids are 5 and 7 and the food was plenty for them but often not enough alternatives. In many cases, the restaurant should just offer a kid size portion of what an adult can order. They could keep the same sides as the plan currently has. Personally I don't like that my kids have so few choices and that Disney is deciding what is best for my child to eat.

Finally, I think when you are checking in and the cast member knows you are on the dining plan, they should give you a list of restaurants in your folder as well as a list of approved foods, snacks and otherwise, from the food court. We found several things at the Pop Century food court that qualified as snacks but were not labeled as such. FYI, a plate of cheese nachos is a snack credit even though it's served from a hot counter rather than a cooler. Just one example.

Just my thoughts. Disney will run the dining plan in a way that maximizes their profit the most ultimately. If it's convenient to the guests then great, if it's profitable to the servers then fine, but if it makes the company money, that's the main goal.

Garland

YesMickey

01-30-2008, 03:29 PM

My $0.02 says change the dessert to an appetizer, add $5 to cover the gratuity and work out something for 10-13 yr olds. There is no way a 10 yr old is worth paying $40 for on this or any of the meal plans. Maybe lower the price for this age group to $25/day. I mean there is a big jump from $9 to $39 from kids to adults.

Lewisc

01-30-2008, 04:28 PM

In a perfect world I'd be happy if Disney went back to the 2006 DDP.

Realistically Disney isn't likely to reduce their profit from the plan and I agree with previous posters who think $50 is a magic price point. That said I don't see the gratuity being included.

I could accept the deletion of the dessert from the CS meal. I'd like some type of appetizer. I'd accept something like a choice of soup/salad or even a house appetizer for the table. Those kinds of choices won't cost Disney much money and shouldn't increase the time most guests spend dining.

Ducking for cover,

It make sense to charge adult prices for children 10 + since guests that age pay adult prices for buffets, price fixed meals and technically don't qualify to order off the kids menu. Disney made the change so they would have the age rules for tickets and for meals. I don't see Disney reducing profitability by discounting that age group.

TLSnell1981

01-31-2008, 12:24 AM

I'm just now adjusting to the '08 plan....'09? I'm also afraid the 18% service charge will be included across the board.....for everybody If Disney keeps hiking prices, while the quality of dining continues to decrease....my meals in the parks will be few and far between. Overpriced food leads to overly large tips for mediocre dining at best.

kid-at-heart

01-31-2008, 06:30 AM

bicker

01-31-2008, 06:39 AM

Too bad the only vote we get is with our dollars. :)

I'm curious to hear from BuffaloGal with regard to how well the optional gratuity for parties of five or less is working out. Her perspective, as a server, is probably going to be very enlightening with regard to whether or not WDW is going to make any changes there. I haven't read anything indicating that the exclusion of the appetizer is having much negative impact. People "wish" that the appetizer was included, or "wish" that it was an option instead of the dessert (like I "wish" the cable company didn't charge $18 extra per month for premium movie channels :)), but I just don't believe a substantial number of people want to pay $50 per person per day to have both appetizer and dessert included in the standard Dining Plan. So it seems to me that the most likely change we'll see will be focused on the gratuity, if at all.

ontario2orlando

01-31-2008, 08:34 AM

We've not experienced dining at Disney yet. We'll be on the basic DDP this summer for 7 days. The idea of buying credits would be better. Then families could choose how many sit down dinners they want to have. As it stands we are pawing over places to eat because we're paying for the table service so we better well use it.

By having a prepaid food plan they can offer many marketing schemes and incentives and discounts. There is an infinite number of promos they could run with a system like that.

As a culinary artist by trade, I've never appreciated or respected servers. They work hard, but only deliver the product. Your gratuity is optional, should never be mandatory. You are paying for their performance, and I do mean their acting! As part of my culinary training in San Francisco we took the Marriot hospitality training. There were many exercises in acting and attentiveness. It's a show.

If tips were mandatory for TS at WDW in the future, our family would only consider the CS. Then, we'd leave property for special meals while on vacation. Not all people could do that and many folks would just pay the tips. When you already include the tip though, don't expect a flighty server to perform to top bill. They already know what they are getting. This will ring true even if it is not included and the server doesn't think the client will tip much. There are certain clients you know will tip big and others so so and others that are likely to not tip at all. Experienced servers catch on to customer stereotypes.

BTW, I know my comments are a bit stiff on servers. I did do my stint as a server and front of the house positions. Trust me, you don't want to know what they are saying about you at the server station, or at the expeditor's station.

mom2my3kids

01-31-2008, 08:45 AM

This is my view on what should be on the 09 dining plan..

Raise the price to 40.99

One snack per day of either popcorn, ice cream, drink etc..
Counter Service meal is a meal plus drink no more desert item.
Dinner give the choice of app or desert.. gratuity added back in..
They would save on the snack, plus save on the no desert on the counter service.
Make a different price for 10-13 year old, paying adult price is ridiculous.
That would make up for the added gratuity my two thoughts..

Tricia1972

01-31-2008, 08:46 AM

Lewisc

01-31-2008, 08:51 AM

Sound logic. Disney is going to look at 2008 DDP bookings, compared to projections. Too many guests skip the dining plan and Disney will improve it. Buffets and all you care to eat restaurants still include appetizers. This just makes the dining plan less valuable in the a la carte restaurants. The same restaurants where guests were able to order food that was worth twice the value of the plan.

Disney came up with the deluxe dining plan to accommodate guests who want to pay more and get more.

I'll be skipping the dining plan next trip. The previous plans allowed guests to save money even if we skipped elements of the plan, as you documented. My savings will be minimal if I skip desserts, pay for appetizers and get snacks that I don't really want.

Too bad the only vote we get is with our dollars. :)

I'm curious to hear from BuffaloGal with regard to how well the optional gratuity for parties of five or less is working out. Her perspective, as a server, is probably going to be very enlightening with regard to whether or not WDW is going to make any changes there. I haven't read anything indicating that the exclusion of the appetizer is having much negative impact. People "wish" that the appetizer was included, or "wish" that it was an option instead of the dessert (like I "wish" the cable company didn't charge $18 extra per month for premium movie channels :)), but I just don't believe a substantial number of people want to pay $50 per person per day to have both appetizer and dessert included in the standard Dining Plan. So it seems to me that the most likely change we'll see will be focused on the gratuity, if at all.

Tricia1972

01-31-2008, 08:54 AM

Ducking for cover,

It make sense to charge adult prices for children 10 + since guests that age pay adult prices for buffets, price fixed meals and technically don't qualify to order off the kids menu. Disney made the change so they would have the age rules for tickets and for meals. I don't see Disney reducing profitability by discounting that age group.

I agree with this statement. Disney will price/judge adults across the board.

I feel that the DDP, Ticket Prices and even the exclusion of children 9 and under at Victoria & Albert's proves this. It shows a uniformity across the board on their determination of adult.

If they add a menu for the 10-13 crowd, then they would be prodded also adjust ticket prices to include a junior rate. Otherwise they'll get guests complaining "But my child is a JUNIOR for dining, why are they paying an ADULT ticket price?"

Yes there are many valid reasons why that'd be the case (child's height for riding rides, etc), but Disney has enough complaints to deal with already. I doubt that they'd leave themselves open for a backlash like that.

Also junior menus would mean that Disney would have to create an entire third dining menu. This menu would have decreased prices and decreased portion sizes. Adults would see this Junior menu and want to order off of it. Many adults feel that portion sizes (and costs) are too high, this Junior Menu would be just the fit for them.

YesMickey

01-31-2008, 10:39 AM

I agree with this statement. Disney will price/judge adults across the board.

I feel that the DDP, Ticket Prices and even the exclusion of children 9 and under at Victoria & Albert's proves this. It shows a uniformity across the board on their determination of adult.

If they add a menu for the 10-13 crowd, then they would be prodded also adjust ticket prices to include a junior rate. Otherwise they'll get guests complaining "But my child is a JUNIOR for dining, why are they paying an ADULT ticket price?"

Yes there are many valid reasons why that'd be the case (child's height for riding rides, etc), but Disney has enough complaints to deal with already. I doubt that they'd leave themselves open for a backlash like that.

Also junior menus would mean that Disney would have to create an entire third dining menu. This menu would have decreased prices and decreased portion sizes. Adults would see this Junior menu and want to order off of it. Many adults feel that portion sizes (and costs) are too high, this Junior Menu would be just the fit for them.

What does the price of food in relation to the consumption of food have to do with ticket prices. I haven't read anywhere where people were commenting on park tickets being too high. In my opinion WDW was constructed for this age group (10-13). The meal plan and the park tickets are two complete seperate things. IE. has anyone ever gotten free park tickets when they purchase the dining plan? I don't think so. If they can give free dining away, then what is the big deal with adjusting the prices a little bit to make it more appealling/affordable to the people that keep the machine running? Which is the family from mid-american with 2-3 kids.

Tricia1972

01-31-2008, 10:48 AM

What does the price of food in relation to the consumption of food have to do with ticket prices. I haven't read anywhere where people were commenting on park tickets being too high. In my opinion WDW was constructed for this age group (10-13). The meal plan and the park tickets are two complete seperate things. IE. has anyone ever gotten free park tickets when they purchase the dining plan? I don't think so. If they can give free dining away, then what is the big deal with adjusting the prices a little bit to make it more appealling/affordable to the people that keep the machine running? Which is the family from mid-american with 2-3 kids.

It has to do with conformity across the board. They say that 10 year olds are adults and they are making it consistent across the board. Park Tickets, Dining, Victoria & Albert's.

To create a subcategory for Junior Dining is to say that a 10-12 year old isn't an adult. It may not happen right away, but I would bet you a paycheck that some (perhaps many) people would complain that they're paying adult ticket prices for their junior. Disney would have to answer why sometimes a 10 year old is an adult and why sometimes they aren't. It may be clear to you that it's based on food consumption, but it won't be clear to everyone.

I have seen complaints on these boards about paying adult park ticket prices for their 10 year old kids.

My consumption reference was a reference to the dangers to Disney of having a Junior menu. I know of many adults who feel that portions are too large. To them saving a bit and getting just the right size entree for dinner would look very attractive. This would cut into Disney's profits.

Lewisc

01-31-2008, 10:51 AM

Disney sell packages. Disney decided it was easier to explain/administer if the age for adult tickets was the same as the age for adults for the meal plan. Disney has an adult rate and a child rate. Infants don't pay for tickets and don't pay for the meal plan. Once the meal plan charged 10 year old the adult rate it was easy for Disney to justify reducing the age for adult meals to 10.

The actual cost to Disney for food consumed (ingredients) has very little to do with the price Disney charges for meals.

What does the price of food in relation to the consumption of food have to do with ticket prices. I haven't read anywhere where people were commenting on park tickets being too high. In my opinion WDW was constructed for this age group (10-13). The meal plan and the park tickets are two complete seperate things. IE. has anyone ever gotten free park tickets when they purchase the dining plan? I don't think so. If they can give free dining away, then what is the big deal with adjusting the prices a little bit to make it more appealling/affordable to the people that keep the machine running? Which is the family from mid-american with 2-3 kids.

YesMickey

01-31-2008, 11:02 AM

It has to do with conformity across the board. They say that 10 year olds are adults and they are making it consistent across the board. Park Tickets, Dining, Victoria & Albert's.

To create a subcategory for Junior Dining is to say that a 10-12 year old isn't an adult. It may not happen right away, but I would bet you a paycheck that some (perhaps many) people would complain that they're paying adult ticket prices for their junior. Disney would have to answer why sometimes a 10 year old is an adult and why sometimes they aren't. It may be clear to you that it's based on food consumption, but it won't be clear to everyone.

I have seen complaints on these boards about paying adult park ticket prices for their 10 year old kids.

My consumption reference was a reference to the dangers to Disney of having a Junior menu. I know of many adults who feel that portions are too large. To them saving a bit and getting just the right size entree for dinner would look very attractive. This would cut into Disney's profits.

But my argument is that they give the dining plan away during certain times of the year (mostly Hurricane Season), and for a family of four 10and up for a 6 night stay that could be around $800-$900 they are "giving away" for a trip that may cost the family around $1600 for room and tickets. I read where everybody states the reasoning is profit for Disney, but they are willing to give up $900 to net $700. HMMMM. If they are willing to do that, then why not do an adjustment for the 10-13yr olds to keep the numbers up that are using the ddp. Because come '09 the number of guest will dwindle who are on the plan. This may occurr later this year anyway. But then again this may be there plan, to kill the dining plan.

bicker

01-31-2008, 11:14 AM

I'm not sure the plan is to "kill" the plan, but rather to change it from being a discount plan to being a pre-payment plan. Regardless, the value of giving it away free as an incentive is related to projected load levels if the incentive wasn't offered, and would be considered in the context of the cost of, value of, and projected effectiveness of other incentives they may consider.

Tricia1972

01-31-2008, 11:20 AM

But my argument is that they give the dining plan away during certain times of the year (mostly Hurricane Season), and for a family of four 10and up for a 6 night stIay that could be around $800-$900 they are "giving away" for a trip that may cost the family around $1600 for room and tickets. I read where everybody states the reasoning is profit for Disney, but they are willing to give up $900 to net $700. HMMMM. If they are willing to do that, then why not do an adjustment for the 10-13yr olds to keep the numbers up that are using the ddp. Because come '09 the number of guest will dwindle who are on the plan. This may occurr later this year anyway. But then again this may be there plan, to kill the dining plan.

Are you saying that they create a special junior menu just for the kids of parents using the DDP?

Lewisc

01-31-2008, 11:37 AM

I'll speculate some of the changes were made so Disney could (profitably) continue to offer free dining. Increasing the price, and keeping the benefits the same, would make it harder for Disney to justify offering free dining.

Offering a deluxe plan allows Disney to accommodate guests who want to pay more and get more.

Assuming Disney wants to continue offer free dining I'd expect more cutback in the basic plan with adjustments made in the deluxe plan.

I'm not sure the plan is to "kill" the plan, but rather to change it from being a discount plan to being a pre-payment plan. Regardless, the value of giving it away free as an incentive is related to projected load levels if the incentive wasn't offered, and would be considered in the context of the cost of, value of, and projected effectiveness of other incentives they may consider.

PrincessAurora

01-31-2008, 11:44 AM

As a culinary artist by trade, I've never appreciated or respected servers. They work hard, but only deliver the product. Your gratuity is optional, should never be mandatory. You are paying for their performance, and I do mean their acting! As part of my culinary training in San Francisco we took the Marriot hospitality training. There were many exercises in acting and attentiveness. It's a show.

OK Dude you just poked the bear. Part of this is forgivable since you are not from this Country. I have no idea how they do things in Canada but in the United States servers are TAXED on 8% of the total check. So if I don't make more than 8% tip on checks I am losing money. Most servers are only paid minimum wage and make their living on tips. Chefs on the other hand are very well paid.

Also what if your food is bad? What if your flavor profiles have fallen flat or it is cooked wrong or seasoned poorly? You do not get your pay docked but that can effect the servers tip.

You should honor the customs of the country you are traveling in. If I am in Europe and they do not tip, then I don't tip. If I am in a country where they do, then I do. It's no different than conforming to customs of manner and dress when you are in someone else's Country (house). It is just manners.

BTW - while I have waited tables in the past, I am now a Chef and find your comments pretentious and insulting to the people who work for you. If they just carry your product, then it is only fair that if your product is substandard, that you suffer the financial consequences as well.

PrincessAurora

01-31-2008, 11:48 AM

As far as the topic goes, I would like the tip reinstated (if the service is bad, a manager can rectify that). Also having a choice of appetizer and dessert would be good as well.

I understand that desserts give Disney a larger profit margin than an appetizer. It would be nice to have that option but it would be nice to have World Peace as well. Ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

While I have no problem with the age limit for kids I DO think there should either be more choices OR a smaller adult portion for the kids that want that item.

Tricia1972

01-31-2008, 11:57 AM

bicker

01-31-2008, 12:15 PM

Are you saying that they create a special junior menu just for the kids of parents using the DDP?This is kind-of an aside, but I think the whole "junior menu" is a big red herring. How often do juniors visit WDW without their parents? Not often. So if there is a value difference between meals eaten by juniors and meals eaten by adults, then that value difference is averaged out -- the lower value juniors derive from meals already exerts its downward pressure on menu prices. So the net-result of junior pricing would be lower prices for juniors and higher prices for their parents. (I know, and respect, that a lot of folks would like to believe that that would not be the case; unfortunately, it is. Reducing the amount of food on a plate has very very minimal impact on the cost of serving that patron in a restaurant. There will be a cost to be paid for junior pricing and that cost will be higher menu prices overall.)

Tricia1972

01-31-2008, 12:27 PM

This is kind-of an aside, but I think the whole "junior menu" is a big red herring. How often do juniors visit WDW without their parents? Not often. So if there is a value difference between meals eaten by juniors and meals eaten by adults, then that value difference is averaged out -- the lower value juniors derive from meals already exerts its downward pressure on menu prices. So the net-result of junior pricing would be lower prices for juniors and higher prices for their parents. (I know, and respect, that a lot of folks would like to believe that that would not be the case; unfortunately, it is. Reducing the amount of food on a plate has very very minimal impact on the cost of serving that patron in a restaurant. There will be a cost to be paid for junior pricing and that cost will be higher menu prices overall.)

I agree with you 100%! That's an excellent point, and an angel I hadn't considered.

I think my previous posts also indicate a few other reasons I don't feel that a Junior Menu would work out. Just don't want my question to make it seem like I am supporting the idea.

byoung

01-31-2008, 07:03 PM

I agree with above. I would like to see it go back to the way it was.

I'm along here.

betty123

02-04-2008, 09:19 AM

Disney will never get the tip included option back. It was done away with in large part due to the poor service of the servers. Since the servers knew they were getting a set percentage of the bill they did not work hard to make the experience pleasurable.

clowe247

02-04-2008, 09:40 AM

Dec. 06 we had great service on the dining plan. Returned this jan poor service . Like at Ohanas Our server asked to see our card. After see it he asked how we were going to pay. We told him we were on the dining plan and not going to order anything extra. He rolled his eyes and let a huff and said Well for my services of course."
the last time I checked a tip was EARNED, ot just a given. Bring back the old dining plan and let us choose Appy of Dessert.