My Rant on tipping

[the_grinch]

Hi all first let me say I have read a lot of the threads about tipping on this board. And I have a couple of rants.

1.why should I tip 15- 20% for bad service (I have no problem tipping that much for good too great service). Please do not say because the server has to pay out so much to busboy and runners and so on. I think they all get minimum wage. I am tipping the server not the rest of the staff they should get fair pair pay from the cost of the meal. and if they are not ,then should we tip each staff member by how well they do there job?

2.We all know Disney prices at the sit down dinners are on the high side .so that make the tips on the high side as well in my mind if you go by the 15-20%. I think 10-15% is more in line in what you should tip.

3.servers think they should get a tip just for doing there job (yes i know they get less base pay). And I think if they are good to great they should get a good tip but the times or servers that do a poor to bad job should get little to no tip. I look at it like a salesperson (they get paid less base pay in hope of commissions),if he dose his job good to great he gets the pay for it, if he is poor to bad he gets his base pay .

4.i read that if the food is bad under cook or over cooked, something is wrong with the order and so on, do not blame the server it is not their fault. Who should I blame and what should I do just tell someone, and hope next time it dose not happen (even if I may not be back for a year or more). No if something goes wrong there goes the tip. If that is the reason a lot of people do not leave a tip the server will do all the telling to the you people to make sure it is rare when it happen if not at all.

Thanks for reading my rant on tipping. my wife and I do not fight on many things. I can count them on 1 hand but this is one, she will not even talk to me about it any more. just had to get that of my chest

[septbaby]

Hi all first let me say I have read a lot of the threads about tipping on this board. And I have a couple of rants.

1.why should I tip 15- 20% for bad service (I have no problem tipping that much for good too great service). Please do not say because the server has to pay out so much to busboy and runners and so on. I think they all get minimum wage. I am tipping the server not the rest of the staff they should get fair pair pay from the cost of the meal. and if they are not ,then should we tip each staff member by how well they do there job?
Mininum wage for a server is way below that of others. Maybe around $3 an hour. The entire team has an impact on your meal experience, not just the person taking your order. The bus person and dishwashers make sure you have a clean table and set up. Someone else might be responsible for refilling water, etc. That is why servers share tips.

2.We all know Disney prices at the sit down dinners are on the high side .so that make the tips on the high side as well in my mind if you go by the 15-20%. I think 10-15% is more in line in what you should tip.
You have the option to tip what you want, unless you're using a DDE or part of a large group. The prices aren't set by the servers. Their wage/benefit rate has an impact on price, but they don't set them.

3.servers think they should get a tip just for doing there job (yes i know they get less base pay). And I think if they are good to great they should get a good tip but the times or servers that do a poor to bad job should get little to no tip. I look at it like a salesperson (they get paid less base pay in hope of commissions),if he dose his job good to great he gets the pay for it, if he is poor to bad he gets his base pay .
Getting tipped is a part of their base pay it isn't a bonus like with some other professions. A high tip may be seen as a bonus, but tip is expected. As noted above servers can easily earn less than half the normal minimum wage rate.

4.i read that if the food is bad under cook or over cooked, something is wrong with the order and so on, do not blame the server it is not their fault. Who should I blame and what should I do just tell someone, and hope next time it dose not happen (even if I may not be back for a year or more). No if something goes wrong there goes the tip. If that is the reason a lot of people do not leave a tip the server will do all the telling to the you people to make sure it is rare when it happen if not at all.Tell the server and give them a chance to fix it. Give them a chance to earn the tip.

Thanks for reading my rant on tipping. my wife and I do not fight on many things. I can count them on 1 hand but this is one, she will not even talk to me about it any more. just had to get that of my chest

Servers at Disney put up with more than the average server. Disney guests are on vacation and some people think they don't have to be polite once they leave home or are somewhere "where no one will know me". Overseas its the ugly American. At Disney it is just plain ugly. Others think I'm paying all this money I deserve...extra, special treatment, not to have to follow the rules...you name it someone will feel entitled. Serving families is hard and there are lots of families, more than the average sit down restaurant at Disney (crying, bratty climbing, messy kids with blase parents refusing to control or reign in there monsters). A server can't just say shut it and the bus staff has to clean up the mess which is generally more mess than they'd make at home for Mom to clean up. But hey, only the server deserves a tip and then only if he/she walks on water.

I wouldn't classify myself as a big tipper, but I usually tip in the standard range unless its a cheap meal then its easier to tip beyond the std % amount. I have tended to point out to the server or servers manager the issue I had rather than just leave no or a really low tip. I do that in hopes that the next guests gets a better experience, the server makes enough money to take care of their family(some kid will likely get less because of low tips) and its better to try to fix an employee than to hire and train a new one. Obviously some may simply not be cut out for the job and management will need to address those issues. Sounds like your wife and I are more in tune on this one. But hey, at least I'll talk to you about it! I think you have some strong opinions and I actually hope I've shown you a couple of points to soften your stance.

[angelmav]

Servers at Disney put up with more than the average server. Disney guests are on vacation and some people think they don't have to be polite once they leave home or are somewhere "where no one will know me". Overseas its the ugly American. At Disney it is just plain ugly. Others think I'm paying all this money I deserve...extra, special treatment, not to have to follow the rules...you name it someone will feel entitled. Serving families is hard and there are lots of families, more than the average sit down restaurant at Disney (crying, bratty climbing, messy kids with blase parents refusing to control or reign in there monsters). A server can't just say shut it and the bus staff has to clean up the mess which is generally more mess than they'd make at home for Mom to clean up. But hey, only the server deserves a tip and then only if he/she walks on water.

I wouldn't classify myself as a big tipper, but I usually tip in the standard range unless its a cheap meal then its easier to tip beyond the std % amount. I have tended to point out to the server or servers manager the issue I had rather than just leave no or a really low tip. I do that in hopes that the next guests gets a better experience, the server makes enough money to take care of their family(some kid will likely get less because of low tips) and its better to try to fix an employee than to hire and train a new one. Obviously some may simply not be cut out for the job and management will need to address those issues. Sounds like your wife and I are more in tune on this one. But hey, at least I'll talk to you about it! I think you have some strong opinions and I actually hope I've shown you a couple of points to soften your stance.

I would disagree with your assertion that Disney servers have to deal with monster customers thus making what they do so much more than a server anywhere else. They are already being paid in kind due to the average costs being so much higher as the OP pointed out.

[septbaby]

They have to deal with a higher % of families than most any restaurant you can think of and families are hard work. Harder than just a couple of work colleagues having lunch. Its just a numbers comment, not a suggestion that families are bad or bad for business. Obviously families are fantastic for Disney business!

Because tipping is over and above the bill amount we think of it as extra. For servers it is part of base pay and its hard for us to reconcile the two.

[kaytieeldr]

3 <snip>I look at it like a salesperson (they get paid less base pay in hope of commissions),if he dose his job good to great he gets the pay for it, if he is poor to bad he gets his base pay .
4 4.i read that if the food is bad under cook or over cooked, something is wrong with the order and so on, do not blame the server it is not their fault. Who should I blame and what should I do just tell someone,
3. Unreasonable comparison. A salesperson's commission is based on sales - no sales, no commission. A server tip is calculated on the menu price of items purchased by the customer. The server HAS sold merchandise - yet under your theory, the items sold would NOT warrant the payment of a 'commission', or tip, The sale has been made, the provider of the items purchased - the restaurant - gets paid, but the server gets no 'commission'? In what world is that reasonable?
4 You blame the PERSON WHO PREPARED THE FOOD, and deal with restaurant management AT THAT TIME.

You don't agree with / believe in tipping? Fine. Please dine at establishments where the employees are paid at least minimum wage (note that in most states, that limits you to fast food venues).

[LSchrow]

They have to deal with a higher % of families than most any restaurant you can think of and families are hard work. Harder than just a couple of work colleagues having lunch. .

i also don't think anyone could possibly compare working at a local restaurant, where there are slow times/days, to a restaurant in WDW where there is no such thing as a slow time! the least busy time at a WDW restaurant is still more incredibly chaotic than the busiest day of the year at the majority of local restaurants:guilty:

[bicker]

I don't think I've seen such an overt trolling in quite a while. I have to believe that the OP knows that practically everything said was contrary to our society's mores. People can choose to behave as they wish, within the confines of the law, but don't expect to come here and receive any ratification of such anti-social conduct.

[Mackey Mouse]

Trolling or not......one post is suspicious, but I will give the benefit of the doubt here and think maybe they have been lurking and have finally decided to post...

This thread will be watched by the moderators of this board as we all know how passionate we can get about tipping....

Also.... "Overseas its the ugly American" really bothered me this morning... we certainly do not have to read how bad the Americans are here on the Dis.. please say it isn't so....In these times, with all that is going on in the world... please think before posting bashing any group.... thanks.

[bluslag]

I think the hardest thing about the tipping is being a table of 6 we will have to pay the same regardless of what service we get. If we get a bad entree we can explain to the waiter and most times they will try to fix it. You can only blame the chef it there is something really wrong with it like spoiled,
not cooked the way you asked or something like that. It can't not be that you did not like it because you may not like but someone else loves it. We all have different tastes. What is expected from the waiter is service. I would not like to be judged for whatever reason DDP, children, or how we look. Once we got a waiter that just wasn't nice because we were DDP, it was at Wolf Gang Puck and they did not like the DDP so he didn't either. The food was very good but all we can remember is the waiter. We did not leave any extra tip because of that experience but I doubt he would have realized that because he still got his tip from Disney. So now when we go this year our tip will be auto because we are a party of 6. Now I have to leave that tip when I know he should not get that much for giving bad service. That is the part I will remember when I leave that restaurant. I don't think we would call the manager to argue (for 1 I don't think it would help) because it is our vacation and I am not going to make a scene and bring myself down more. Move on and hopefully we won't have any of these waiters. I am sure Disney looked at all angles for how they could keep the DDP but I think they dropped the ball on this one because for the most part it has taken some of the convienance out of the DDP.

[eeyoresbestfriend]

I am a waitress allbeit, not at DisneyWorld, and I am sure that there job is harder than mine. I work at a local chilis, and there are definitely times when it is less busy. That being said, I make $2.13 an hour. We tip out 1% of our sales to each the bussers and the Bartender (whether or not we sell alcohol). We also tip 1.5% of our sales to the QA (Qyality Assurance) whose job it is to get the food ready on the line and send it out. Notice I said the percentage of our SALES. NOT of the tips we receive, so whatever my total amount of sales are, I am automatically tipping out 3.5% to others. I am usually losing at least a dollar of every tip I receive. For example, yesterday I worked for 5 hours, I tipped each the busser and Bartender 3.80 and then I tipped on top of that, the QA 5.70. NOw, don't get me wrong, the $52 dollars I brought home is great money for 5 hours, but I could have taken $13 more dollars than that and $65 is better than 52!! There are times (Fridays Saturdays where I have tipped out upwards of $50-$75
I just wanted to give the logisitcs, I am sure that Disney works the exact same way, I am not sure, of course what there percentages are, nor whether they tip hosts or other positions. I like to think that all servers are working hard and trying to give the best service to all customers, but of course you can tell when that is not the case!
ANyway, just a little insight into the life of a server, I am lucky enough to do this job just for something to do when my kids are in school, my husband is the supporter, this job is something for me to do and I like the extra spending money- but every one of the other people I work with rely on this job to pay rent, buy food and everything else that goes ith living in the orld today.
SORRY- not wanting to preach but to give an idea of the tip-out process and all that goes with it!

[Loafmastermom]

I am very suspicious that this is the OPs first post on the DIS. This is a community to share excitement, gather information, and occassionally rant. When you introduce yourself this way, I will not take your post seriously. However, I seriously feel sorry for your wife if she has to listen to this kind of stuff at home. :sad2:

[septbaby]

Sorry to offend there as no mal intent; hope your day gets better. :guilty:

I really don't think most of us are "ugly" overseas or at Disney.

Many people choose not to tip or tip lightly and not just at Disney. Some will continue to do so and hopefully as others realize these servers get $3/hr realize that tips are their real wage and not "extra".

[Allensfan]

YIKES :scared1: is the only way I can describe my feelings when I read that you leave 10% tip. Wow. My only hope is that 99.9% of the others here to not tip that way.

I assume your wife thinks you are being petty and cheap. She may be right.

[mom2my3kids]

Hi all first let me say I have read a lot of the threads about tipping on this board. And I have a couple of rants.

1.why should I tip 15- 20% for bad service (I have no problem tipping that much for good too great service). Please do not say because the server has to pay out so much to busboy and runners and so on. I think they all get minimum wage. I am tipping the server not the rest of the staff they should get fair pair pay from the cost of the meal. and if they are not ,then should we tip each staff member by how well they do there job?

2.We all know Disney prices at the sit down dinners are on the high side .so that make the tips on the high side as well in my mind if you go by the 15-20%. I think 10-15% is more in line in what you should tip.

3.servers think they should get a tip just for doing there job (yes i know they get less base pay). And I think if they are good to great they should get a good tip but the times or servers that do a poor to bad job should get little to no tip. I look at it like a salesperson (they get paid less base pay in hope of commissions),if he dose his job good to great he gets the pay for it, if he is poor to bad he gets his base pay .

4.i read that if the food is bad under cook or over cooked, something is wrong with the order and so on, do not blame the server it is not their fault. Who should I blame and what should I do just tell someone, and hope next time it dose not happen (even if I may not be back for a year or more). No if something goes wrong there goes the tip. If that is the reason a lot of people do not leave a tip the server will do all the telling to the you people to make sure it is rare when it happen if not at all.

Thanks for reading my rant on tipping. my wife and I do not fight on many things. I can count them on 1 hand but this is one, she will not even talk to me about it any more. just had to get that of my chest

I won't waste my breath as I see its a troll..

[Allensfan]

What is a troll? Sorry new to posting. :flower3:

[Lewisc]

Very interesting first post, at least under this member name.

1) You shouldn't tip 15-20% for really bad service. Service that bad also deserves mention to management, preferably during the meal so the problem can be corrected. Customers that frequently think service is poor enough to justify a low tip have unrealistic expectations as to service, are trying to justify bad tipping or need to patronize better restaurants.

2) 15-20% is the appropriate tip for good service, you sound like a person who is trying to justify being cheap.

3) The server is paid below minimum wage. Did he take your order and deliver your food? Again a normal tip of 15-20% is for normal (good service). Another argument made by a customer who is looking to justify being cheap.

4) You're partially right. The server should come back after you start dining and ask how everything is. That's your opportunity to complain and ask for a different menu item. Now if you can't even find the server to complain then you have justification for a low tip.






Hi all first let me say I have read a lot of the threads about tipping on this board. And I have a couple of rants.

1.why should I tip 15- 20% for bad service (I have no problem tipping that much for good too great service). Please do not say because the server has to pay out so much to busboy and runners and so on. I think they all get minimum wage. I am tipping the server not the rest of the staff they should get fair pair pay from the cost of the meal. and if they are not ,then should we tip each staff member by how well they do there job?

2.We all know Disney prices at the sit down dinners are on the high side .so that make the tips on the high side as well in my mind if you go by the 15-20%. I think 10-15% is more in line in what you should tip.

3.servers think they should get a tip just for doing there job (yes i know they get less base pay). And I think if they are good to great they should get a good tip but the times or servers that do a poor to bad job should get little to no tip. I look at it like a salesperson (they get paid less base pay in hope of commissions),if he dose his job good to great he gets the pay for it, if he is poor to bad he gets his base pay .

4.i read that if the food is bad under cook or over cooked, something is wrong with the order and so on, do not blame the server it is not their fault. Who should I blame and what should I do just tell someone, and hope next time it dose not happen (even if I may not be back for a year or more). No if something goes wrong there goes the tip. If that is the reason a lot of people do not leave a tip the server will do all the telling to the you people to make sure it is rare when it happen if not at all.

Thanks for reading my rant on tipping. my wife and I do not fight on many things. I can count them on 1 hand but this is one, she will not even talk to me about it any more. just had to get that of my chest

[andrabell]

What is a troll? Sorry new to posting. :flower3:

A forum troll is a person who makes controversial, passive aggressive or downright nasty posts just to see how many angry villagers http://www.bpal.org/style_emoticons/default/villagers.gifhe/she can stir up.

[stitchsgrandpa]

Most of the time I only read and use this board for information and planning. I just added to this post so when I do have a comment I am not consider a troll! Seem you are not trustworthy unless you have at least a 1000 posts. Sorry, I do read posts and makeup my own mind if I should take it seriously. By the way cheap people will always be cheap no matter what is said on this subject!

[Lewisc]

Very interesting first post, at least under this member name.

1) You shouldn't tip 15-20% for really bad service. Service that bad also deserves mention to management, preferably during the meal so the problem can be corrected. Customers that frequently think service is poor enough to justify a low tip have unrealistic expectations as to service, are trying to justify bad tipping or need to patronize better restaurants.

2) 15-20% is the appropriate tip for good service, you sound like a person who is trying to justify being cheap.

3) The server is paid below minimum wage. Did he take your order and deliver your food? Again a normal tip of 15-20% is for normal (good service). Another argument made by a customer who is looking to justify being cheap.

4) You're partially right. The server should come back after you start dining and ask how everything is. That's your opportunity to complain and ask for a different menu item. Now if you can't even find the server to complain then you have justification for a low tip.






Hi all first let me say I have read a lot of the threads about tipping on this board. And I have a couple of rants.

1.why should I tip 15- 20% for bad service (I have no problem tipping that much for good too great service). Please do not say because the server has to pay out so much to busboy and runners and so on. I think they all get minimum wage. I am tipping the server not the rest of the staff they should get fair pair pay from the cost of the meal. and if they are not ,then should we tip each staff member by how well they do there job?

2.We all know Disney prices at the sit down dinners are on the high side .so that make the tips on the high side as well in my mind if you go by the 15-20%. I think 10-15% is more in line in what you should tip.

3.servers think they should get a tip just for doing there job (yes i know they get less base pay). And I think if they are good to great they should get a good tip but the times or servers that do a poor to bad job should get little to no tip. I look at it like a salesperson (they get paid less base pay in hope of commissions),if he dose his job good to great he gets the pay for it, if he is poor to bad he gets his base pay .

4.i read that if the food is bad under cook or over cooked, something is wrong with the order and so on, do not blame the server it is not their fault. Who should I blame and what should I do just tell someone, and hope next time it dose not happen (even if I may not be back for a year or more). No if something goes wrong there goes the tip. If that is the reason a lot of people do not leave a tip the server will do all the telling to the you people to make sure it is rare when it happen if not at all.

Thanks for reading my rant on tipping. my wife and I do not fight on many things. I can count them on 1 hand but this is one, she will not even talk to me about it any more. just had to get that of my chest

[the_grinch]

First let me say I am not trying to just a flame war or anything like that. But lets look at some simple numbers, minimum wage is $7.25, national average wage is lets say $40,000 a year (not bad to a lot of us) so if you are minimum wage you make about $290 a week. Or $15,000 a year, ok so far all looks good?
Ok just to look at lowball numbers I am sure they are a lot higher. Let say an average restaurant can sit 70 people at one time, and the average meal cost $40.00 and the server works 8 hours a day ,and 5 day a week.so 70*40=2800 that is how much money a hour the restaurant brings in an hour so times that by 8 we get 22.400 for 8 hours .so if we take the 22,400 tip it 18% we get $4,032 a day in tips lets say there are 15 servers for the 70 tables each server gets $268.80 in tips a day(if they have to tip out they should talk to managers as you guys have said we are tipping for the service of the server we pay for clean plates and food and so on in the cost of the meal. that is a whole other thread ).now let say they only get 10% on average then they make $149.33 each a day . so if they make $268 they make $1340 a week or $69,680 and if the make $149 a day they make $745 a week and #38,740 a year . this is just in tip I know the base pay is not much but as we can see the make a good wage just on 10% and if they get 18% on average they make a great wage .so please stop try tom tell me if I do not tip 18% or better the server will not feed there kids or will lose there home it is simple not true.

[Loafmastermom]

Grinch, you need friends...or a hobby.

[kaytieeldr]

Or a job as a restaurant server for a while, to experience what it's REALLY like... and worth.

[bicker]

I think the hardest thing about the tipping is being a table of 6 we will have to pay the same regardless of what service we get.Yes, and it is important to remember that such policies aren't capricious -- they're a reflection of the frequency of unscrupulous patrons failing to responsibly apply reasonable discretion. If instances were rare, the risk would be low, and there wouldn't be a need for such policies. Unfortunately, such instances are too common, and therefore such policies are necessary. :(

[TDC Nala]

I believe in tipping, even tipping pretty well, but I gotta admit I don't understand tipping for REALLY BAD service. And I'm not talking about forgetting to fill the water glass or putting plates down in front of the wrong people. I mean BAD.

[McSooner]

LOL. Geez people, lay off. The poster stated an opinion and he's called a troll and insulted. But hey, I've got a low post count so maybe I'm a CIA Operative. If this is the only thing you have to gripe about in life, things are going pretty good.

[RACHELSMOM1]

Trolling or not......one post is suspicious, but I will give the benefit of the doubt here and think maybe they have been lurking and have finally decided to post...

This thread will be watched by the moderators of this board as we all know how passionate we can get about tipping....

Also.... "Overseas its the ugly American" really bothered me this morning... we certainly do not have to read how bad the Americans are here on the Dis.. please say it isn't so....In these times, with all that is going on in the world... please think before posting bashing any group.... thanks.

I did not see the "Overseas its the ugly American" post. What was that about? :confused3 I know this is off topic, but I am a proud American :goodvibes , and I would like to know what was printed about us "ugly Americans". :eek:

[TLSnell1981]

Or a job as a restaurant server for a while, to experience what it's REALLY like... and worth.

We have gone back and forth on this board on the amount of gratuity a Dis server is entitled to. They make a pretty good wage.....and let's don't go there about numbers.....we know what they are. There are many folks out there that work hard......servers are not an exception to the rule. Many don't like the service charge and I am one of them. I don't believe that is the only way a server can make a good wage. A good server doesn't need auto grat....it mostly helps a lousy one. Quite unfair to the ones that take pride in their work and are good at what they do.

[kaytieeldr]

There are many folks out there that work hard......servers are not an exception to the rule. Maybe if I quote the specific post to which I was responding?
Loafmaster: "Grinch, you need friends...or a hobby." followed immediately by my "Or a job as a restaurant server for a while, to experience what it's REALLY like... and worth."

[madge62]

Just an FYI, tipped servers don't make minimum wage, they earn somewhere in the neighbourhood of $3/hour.

[sjaakie]

I did not see the "Overseas its the ugly American" post. What was that about? :confused3 I know this is off topic, but I am a proud American :goodvibes , and I would like to know what was printed about us "ugly Americans". :eek:



Don’t worry nobody thinks about Americans like that “overseas”.:thumbsup2
You are considered as generous tippers .

Reading all of this I still keep thinking the Unions must make an end to all of this and make sure everyone gets a normal income.

[Disney_Angel]

Yes I am new to posting also....what is a troll?:surfweb:

[sjaakie]

Yes I am new to posting also....what is a troll?:surfweb:

Read Harry Potter :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:

[bicker]

Reading all of this I still keep thinking the Unions must make an end to all of this and make sure everyone gets a normal income.The workers don't necessarily see a flat, automatic gratuity as a good thing. They only want it applied for larger groups where the chances of a superior tip aren't high enough to outweigh the higher risk associated with being stiffed.

[sjaakie]

The workers don't necessarily see a flat, automatic gratuity as a good thing. They only want it applied for larger groups where the chances of a superior tip aren't high enough to outweigh the higher risk associated with being stiffed.

I still think that its very bad idea that anybody has to live from tipping.

I know different country ,different rules but I just can't see the sense of underpaying.

Wouldn’t it be a relief just to give a tip from your hart then being forced into a rule that’s senseless and make’s so many people upset?
And yes we always leave a tip so its not I’m not willing to give anything but the thought “ if I don’t give enough his children will starve” makes me feel very oncomfy.


I even think the whole problem will get bigger if this recession grows.
More and more overseas guests will fly over now the dollar is so low. Considering that tipping is a politeness in most countries and nut a must this problem will only get bigger.

I don't know a solution but this situation is like a steamcooker and not only in WDW.

[bicker]

I still think that its very bad idea that anybody has to live from tipping.Yes, that's clear, but everyone should have a right to be able to choose for themselves between a career with a flat per hour wage and a career with compensation based on gratuities. There are literally thousands of jobs at WDW which are offered with a set, per hour wage... for example, housekeepers. So there are choices.

I know different country ,different rules but I just can't see the sense of underpaying.Underpaying is a red herring. We're not talking about underpaying. We're talking about where the cost of service is discretionary, not optional.

Wouldn’t it be a relief just to give a tip from your hart then being forced into a rule that’s senseless and make’s so many people upset?There is nothing "senseless" about compensating servers fairly for the service they provide you, based on the mores of the society. Furthermore, the upset is the problem, not a symptom of a problem: People shouldn't be upset about complying with such reasonable mores. That upset you refer to is either self-imposed, and therefore self-remedial, or a reflection of rampant entitlement mentality, which doesn't deserve any special consideration, any more than you'd offer special consideration to someone speaking with crude language.

Within the context of society's mores, there is no stress associated with providing a gratuity, whether it is a proscribed one for larger parties or a discretionary one for smaller parties.

the thought “ if I don’t give enough his children will starve” makes me feel very oncomfy.That's stress you're imposing on yourself, really -- I don't think you need to think about it in those terms. Rather, it is simply part of the cost of the meal, a part that you have discretion over.

I've used that term several times -- discretion -- tipping is not an "option". Rather, you are obligated to provide a gratuity, either paying the automatic gratuity for larger parties or providing a gratuity yourself for smaller parties. The special aspect in the latter case is that the amount of the gratuity is discretionary, with a base of 15%, made a bit higher or lower based on the quality of service you actually receive.

If the amount of money itself is contributing to your stress then revise your thinking -- we are not talking about a difference of 15% of the cost of your meal -- we are only talking about a 3%-5% range on either side of 15% of the cost of your meal. That 15% you should have already factored into your understanding of the cost of your meal. Some folks may elect to concern themselves with a larger range -- that is their prerogative. However, it is not an obligation to apply discretion along such a larger range. If you don't like doing so, don't. Just concern yourself with the 3%-5% range on either side of the 15%.

I even think the whole problem will get bigger if this recession grows.The gratuity system has been through dozens of recessions over the past 150 years. It hasn't been a problem.

More and more overseas guests will fly over now the dollar is so low.Just like Americans have flown overseas in the past: We learned and complied with your society's mores; I'm sure you'll have no problem complying with ours.

[mom2my3kids]

Yes, that's clear, but everyone should have a right to be able to choose for themselves between a career with a flat per hour wage and a career with compensation based on gratuities. There are literally thousands of jobs at WDW which are offered with a set, per hour wage... for example, housekeepers. So there are choices.

Underpaying is a red herring. We're not talking about underpaying. We're talking about where the cost of service is discretionary, not optional.

There is nothing "senseless" about compensating servers fairly for the service they provide you, based on the mores of the society. Furthermore, the upset is the problem, not a symptom of a problem: People shouldn't be upset about complying with such reasonable mores. That upset you refer to is either self-imposed, and therefore self-remedial, or a reflection of rampant entitlement mentality, which doesn't deserve any special consideration, any more than you'd offer special consideration to someone speaking with crude language.

Within the context of society's mores, there is no stress associated with providing a gratuity, whether it is a proscribed one for larger parties or a discretionary one for smaller parties.

That's stress you're imposing on yourself, really -- I don't think you need to think about it in those terms. Rather, it is simply part of the cost of the meal, a part that you have discretion over.

I've used that term several times -- discretion -- tipping is not an "option". Rather, you are obligated to provide a gratuity, either paying the automatic gratuity for larger parties or providing a gratuity yourself for smaller parties. The special aspect in the latter case is that the amount of the gratuity is discretionary, with a base of 15%, made a bit higher or lower based on the quality of service you actually receive.

If the amount of money itself is contributing to your stress then revise your thinking -- we are not talking about a difference of 15% of the cost of your meal -- we are only talking about a 3%-5% range on either side of 15% of the cost of your meal. That 15% you should have already factored into your understanding of the cost of your meal. Some folks may elect to concern themselves with a larger range -- that is their prerogative. However, it is not an obligation to apply discretion along such a larger range. If you don't like doing so, don't. Just concern yourself with the 3%-5% range on either side of the 15%.

The gratuity system has been through dozens of recessions over the past 150 years. It hasn't been a problem.

Just like Americans have flown overseas in the past: We learned and complied with your society's mores; I'm sure you'll have no problem complying with ours.

Ditto!!!

[Mackey Mouse]

So far so good..... I am glad to say we are discussing this rationally and staying within Dis guidelines.. Thank you!!!!

Just commenting a bit more.. my Mom was a waitress when I was growing up.. She was a good server and took her job seriously. The cute part of this story is that she saved all her silver coin....her Kennedy coins, this is before the coins were mixed and were all silver. I have them to this day safely put away... and knowing I have them makes me think of her and how hard she worked for that coin. I guess what I am saying here is some really take pride in their jobs to serve the public. I know many servers who are like that today.


Those are the ones who deserve the 20% or more, breakfast servers we always tip more as the check is usually lower. It is a reward for service...if the service is not good, then you make that decision to either lower the percentage or not tip at all, but your choice.
I do not like my choice being taken away from me and I see that more often than not, not always on tipping..

And one more thought here, not on tipping, to the previous poster who said that they lurk and do not always post......that is what the Dis is for. If you CHOOSE to post, then fine, but if you CHOOSE to just read, fine as well. I think we should give everyone the benefit of the doubt no matter what their post count is and not label anyone....

[sjaakie]

I do have no problem with a rule in any country but if I read that the minimum wage for a waiter is 3 or 4 dollar then I wonder how they can survive ????.

In my humble opinion just put e few dollar extra on the menu price and stop stiffing waiters.

[sjaakie]

To Bicker.
Just would like you to know I'm not a commie :rotfl2:

Just a believer of enough money for everyone.

[wezee]

Bicker...I totally agree with you...tipping is not optional. Maybe this is why WDW has had to change several of their tipping policies? Maybe too many people thought tipping was optional? I realize that a trip to WDW can be very pricey.....but that does not excuse anyone for not tipping as required.
BTW...on all of our past WDW trips, we have only had one server that did not deserve the average 18% tip!

[PastorsWife]

Bicker...I totally agree with you...tipping is not optional. Maybe this is why WDW has had to change several of their tipping policies? Maybe too many people thought tipping was optional? I realize that a trip to WDW can be very pricey.....but that does not excuse anyone for not tipping as required.
BTW...on all of our past WDW trips, we have only had one server that did not deserve the average 18% tip!

I don't understand why WDW feels that removing a guaranteed gratuity HELPS the servers gain a larger tip, when now everyone is going to tip what they thought the meal/service was worth.

Once I saw a cartoon, people at a restaurant table with a saucer with a note in it that said "Your Tip So Far" and had some change in it. I thought that was absolutely brilliant. When I have a good server, I tip very well. When I have a poor server, the tip goes down rapidly and drastically.

I assume that at a good establishment, the waitstaff will be considerate enough to check the ticket and ensure that there is nothing odd on the bill. I also assume that waitstaff is considerate enough to tell you about hidden costs, whether it be "refills are extra" or "that salad dressing costs more". I assume that if a waitperson asks "do you want more" that it's inclusive.

If I receive the bill and see that an extra charge has been added to the bill, AND the waitperson didn't warn me, I take that extra charge and subtract it from the gratuity.
If I have a cup of coffee and it remains unfilled for an unreasonable amount of time, I subtract the cost of the coffee from the gratuity.
If I need something and see the waitperson gabbing with another staff member, the tip begins to decrease, etc.

Conversely, I tip extra if:
I have a coupon or discount and the waitperson works with me to make sure I get the best deal I can.
We want for nothing.
We see the waitperson more than "can I take your drink order", "here's your drinks, can I take your food order", "can I take your dessert order", and "here's your bill".
The waitperson takes the extra time to establish a relationship
The waitperson goes out of the way to meet a dietary need
Specials, dressings, soups, desserts are explained slowly and clearly and not rattled off faster than someone can hear in a monotone...

And before you call me a scrooge, I usually tip at least 15%. I have never tipped nothing - but I have on several occasions left a penny.

While a gratuity should be expected, so also should good service be expected. This includes promptness, concern, knowledge, and attentiveness.

Here's an interesting thought.

Back in 1990 as a 19 year old, I made about $30,000 in tips a year at a family restaurant with a bar. My boyfriend made closer to $50,000 working at the Frankenmuth Bavarian Inn, which is very similar to DW, overpriced theme tourist food. (I just bought a meal for 5 there and the bill was over $100 with no alcohol, and left a $20 tip for what I considered poor service.)

Conversely, my sister has a master's in biology and makes nearly $40,000 as a teacher. My husband has a Ph.D. and makes the same as a pastor.

What behaviors are we as a society rewarding? What values are we instilling in our youth?

[tnmomof4]

While a gratuity should be expected, so also should good service be expected. This includes promptness, concern, knowledge, and attentiveness.

Here's an interesting thought.

Back in 1990 as a 19 year old, I made about $30,000 in tips a year at a family restaurant with a bar. My boyfriend made closer to $50,000 working at the Frankenmuth Bavarian Inn, which is very similar to DW, overpriced theme tourist food. (I just bought a meal for 5 there and the bill was over $100 with no alcohol, and left a $20 tip for what I considered poor service.)

Conversely, my sister has a master's in biology and makes nearly $40,000 as a teacher. My husband has a Ph.D. and makes the same as a pastor.

What behaviors are we as a society rewarding? What values are we instilling in our youth?


I was a waitress for a few years. I always tried to do my best because I knew the amount of my tip wasn't necessarily based on the cost of the food, but my tip would be also based on if I did a good job. I think tipping is the right think to do. But that good service is to be expected too.

(Pastorswife: I grew up about 5 minutes from Frankenmuth. I was a waitress at Big Boy)

[ninjamama]

Here's an interesting thought.

Back in 1990 as a 19 year old, I made about $30,000 in tips a year at a family restaurant with a bar. My boyfriend made closer to $50,000 working at the Frankenmuth Bavarian Inn, which is very similar to DW, overpriced theme tourist food. (I just bought a meal for 5 there and the bill was over $100 with no alcohol, and left a $20 tip for what I considered poor service.)

Conversely, my sister has a master's in biology and makes nearly $40,000 as a teacher. My husband has a Ph.D. and makes the same as a pastor.

What behaviors are we as a society rewarding? What values are we instilling in our youth?

Wow. I'm a server, and it would seem that I am not contributing enough to society. Though, I thought I was by staying at home with my children and providing a good upbringing. Serving nights and weekends allows me to be the full time parent and the employee (burning the candle at both ends, if you will). My biggest commitment is to raising my family to the best of my ability. A pretty significant contribution to the future if you ask me. I am a GREAT server, and by doing so I earn a decent living to help support my family. Sorry my job description (which one???) isn't up to snuff in YOUR caste system, or seems less deserving.

I did love the post by the mod who remembers how hard his mother worked for him......I hope my boys will feel the same some day.

[mom2my3kids]

Wow. I'm a server, and it would seem that I am not contributing enough to society. Though, I thought I was by staying at home with my children and providing a good upbringing. Serving nights and weekends allows me to be the full time parent and the employee (burning the candle at both ends, if you will). My biggest commitment is to raising my family to the best of my ability. A pretty significant contribution to the future if you ask me. I am a GREAT server, and by doing so I earn a decent living to help support my family. Sorry my job description (which one???) isn't up to snuff in YOUR caste system, or seems less deserving.

I did love the post by the mod who remembers how hard his mother worked for him......I hope my boys will feel the same some day.


:thumbsup2

[michygoomy]

That man's no troll, he's my husband! :lmao:

And he has a post count of two because I wouldn't let him post on this subject under *my* account. I have my reputation to consider, 'ya know. ;)

Oh, and thanks to the disers who are having a reasonable discussion. :flower3: I certainly am sick of talking about it.

(Oh, and for the record, he's not stiffing anyone because I make sure to always take the bill.) :rolleyes1

[TLSnell1981]

I do have no problem with a rule in any country but if I read that the minimum wage for a waiter is 3 or 4 dollar then I wonder how they can survive ????.

In my humble opinion just put e few dollar extra on the menu price and stop stiffing waiters.

I know I have not seen you on the boards for awhile, so you have missed some of our conversations.

There have been servers, that have stated they make from $150 -$250 per shift (night) at Disney in tips. They can survive. I believe most servers are content with their income. It's only a few that complain about how hard it is and how they deserve more. Of course, it's hard work, but not the only hard job. They are fortunate to have an employer like WDW...there are many other servers who would love to have that job.

[kaytieeldr]

Once I saw a cartoon, people at a restaurant table with a saucer with a note in it that said "Your Tip So Far" and had some change in it. I thought that was absolutely brilliant. When I have a good server, I tip very well. When I have a poor server, the tip goes down rapidly and drastically. I respectfully disagree. That's demeaning to the server - to any human being.

If I have a cup of coffee and it remains unfilled for an unreasonable amount of time, I subtract the cost of the coffee from the gratuity. I again respectfully disagree; the diner HAD at least one serving of the beverage of choice - it seems unreasonable to effectively not pay for a given item because more than one of that item was not received. Just for example: appetizer = $6, entree = $18, dessert = $4, coffee = $2. Total check $30. Fifteen percent (standard tip) of that is $4.50; instead, the server is tipped $2.50, or EIGHT-point-three percent? Doesn't make sense.

[TLSnell1981]

I respectfully disagree. That's demeaning to the server - to any human being.

If a server is demeaned by this....they are in the wrong buisness. That is the least of their worries. I believe some of my employees would have had a sense of humor with this one. I promise at least a couple would have asked what it would take to fill it to the top....and done it!

I again respectfully disagree; the diner HAD at least one serving of the beverage of choice - it seems unreasonable to effectively not pay for a given item because more than one of that item was not received.

They are already being paid a base ($3.70 per hour).....a tip is based on how well they perform the rest of the job. Waitstaff are in the service industry. Most understand what they have to do to make a good living.

.................

[kaytieeldr]

Putting the money one intends to tip, in a cup or on the table, and informing the server that this is where their tip starts - and maybe I'm reading a different post but I see NOTHING in that one that implies that the diner would ever be ADDING to the saucer (and I've seen this so-called 'advice' before) - is tantamount to one's boss in any job placing the person's wage on a desk, telling them that this is where their pay starts, and then removing money based on percieved performance.

I did go back and read the original post - I thought the poster had indicated that if she didn't (in this case) get a second cup of coffee, she would subtract the menu price of the coffee from the tip left. Nope, that's not even what she said. If her coffee cup remained empty for [what she considers] an 'unreasonable' amount of time, she subtracts the price of the coffee from the tip. She's not even making this decision based on never getting a second cup of coffee, but on it being delayed.

We don't even know what prompted this theoretical lack of an additional cup of coffee. It could be restaurant policy to not pour additional coffee unasked, x number of minutes after the last course is served. The restaurant could be closed/closing for the evening. Would a server saying, "I'm sorry, we're closed, we can't give you any more coffee", or "Restaurant policy is to not serve additional beverages after your dessert arrives", get a BETTER tip? Of course not. The server would likely suffer financially for being honest.

[kaytieeldr]

duplicate

[kaytieeldr]

triplicate

[kaytieeldr]

quadruplicate

[kaytieeldr]

:rolleyes2 Is five of the same post some kind of record? Sorry about that, folks!

[familyS]

:lmao: kaytieeldr, either you feel really strongly about your post, or the boards are messing up again :rotfl:

[sjaakie]

I know I have not seen you on the boards for awhile, so you have missed some of our conversations.


Just have being diagnostic with breast cancer and head to cancel our vacation in WDW.
In my "good” days when the chemo isn't to bad I read the board feeling still a little bit of the magic

I made a promess to give a big tipp to all the waiters as soon as I'm aible to return to WDW.:flower3:

[caroline1851]

I never base my tip on the quality of the food, since that is the kitchen, not the wait staff. I base my tip on service only. Horrible service gets 10%, average service gets 15% and spectactular service gets 20%.

[Sparkie]

My daughter is a server at a local cafe. Her base pay is $2.13 per hour. When she works as hostess her base pay is $5.00 per hour and as hostess she is not only responsible for seating tables but clearing them as well. So for both of those jobs she is paid below minimum wage. The cooks, the manager, and the dishwasher are the only people paid above minimum wage.

So... when she works as a server, she gets her base, plus her tips for the night and she "tips out" a percentage of her nights sales to the host/hostess for the night- If you think about it, the host/hostess and the server are working as a team. The host/hostess helps her turn tables by keeping them clean and refilled so why shouldnt she share a part of her tip with them? Especially since they are both paid below minimum wage.

Now as for how much money a server can make in a night or what their gross income is and are servers making big bucks and no one is starving or unable to make their mortgage- Is is wrong for people to do well? Is it wrong for people to be successful in their job? There are people who are fortunate and make more money than I do but I dont get angry at them for their success or good fortune.

On the whole tipping issue, the way I see it- there are social norms- guidelines- and just like other things we encounter- lets say the speed limit for example- some people chose to stay within the guidelines and some do not- its a personal choice. If you are a party of 6 and feel that you have received service less than the included 18% tip- speak up- discuss with a manager and negotiate- politely of course.

I must confess that I myself used to be a 10% only tipper because I like many of you did not realize how much less "sub-minimum wage" was. But since my daughter has become a server and relies on her tips I have changed my ways. At $2.13/hour she cant even buy gasoline to get to work.

[Tricia1972]

This is an excerpt from the Disney Contract, link to which was provided a few days ago. A server is indeed making well below minimum wage, but considering that many servers in many states are making a base wage of $2.00/hr, their base wages are 'fair' compared to other servers in other states.

I begrudge no one for making a good wage. Servers should, they work very hard. I think much of the hostility on the boards regarding Disney servers is as a result of the FEW Disney Servers who post on these threads how if you tip less than 18% you are stiffing the server and they are starving. Unfortunately those few servers have posted a lot in the past and it gets frustrating to hear them complain how they are starving to death when they are making more money than some of us are.

I tip well, at home and at Disney. I have no problem rewarding good service. However, if another person feels that 15% is a good fair tip for service that they received, then they should feel free to tip that amount. No Disney server should try to dictate to them on the boards that they need to tip more. (this is not including Auto Gratuity parties of 6 or more and who use the DDE card. Disney does dictate that 18% is the minimum tip for these parties)

Tipped Classifications









Tipped employees hired prior to October 30, 1988 and who have remained in a tipped classification





Job Classification
9/30/2007
12/30/2007
12/28/2008
12/27/2009
Banquet Facility H/H (T)
$4.25
$4.40
$4.55
$4.70
Banquet Service H/H (T) 7(i)
$3.65
$3.80
$3.95
$4.10
Banquet Service H/H (T)
$3.65
$3.80
$3.95
$4.10
Beverage Captain (T) 7(i)
$5.45
$5.60
$5.75
$5.90
Beverage Captain (T)
$5.45
$5.60
$5.75
$5.90
Beverage Cart H/H (T) 7(i)
$3.65
$3.80
$3.95
$4.10
Beverage Cart H/H (T)
$3.65
$3.80
$3.95
$4.10
Beverage H/H (T)
$5.90
$5.90
$6.05
$6.20
Beverage H/H Banquets (T) 7(i)
$5.10
$5.25
$5.40
$5.55
Beverage H/H Banquets (T)
$5.10
$5.25
$5.40
$5.55
Food & Bev Assistant (T)
$5.10
$5.25
$5.40
$5.55
Food & Bev Captain (T) 7(i)
$4.55
$4.70
$4.85
$5.00
Food & Bev Captain (T)
$4.55
$4.70
$4.85
$5.00
Food & Bev Dinner Show Server (T)
$3.65
$3.80
$3.95
$4.10
Food & Bev Dinner Show Svr (T) 7(i)
$3.65
$3.80
$3.95
$4.10
Food & Bev Service H/H (T)
$3.65
$3.80
$3.95
$4.10
Hospitality Service H/H (T)
$4.05
$4.20
$4.35
$4.50
Special Service H/H (T)
$4.25
$4.40
$4.55
$4.70





Tipped employees hired on or after 10/30/1988 or employees hired before 10/30/1988 who did not remain in a tipped classification





Job Classification
9/30/2007
12/30/2007
12/28/2008
12/27/2009
Banquet Facility H/H (T)
$3.65
$3.80
$3.95
$4.10
Banquet Service H/H (T) 7(i)
$3.65
$3.80
$3.95
$4.10
Banquet Service H/H (T)
$3.65
$3.80
$3.95
$4.10
Beverage Assistant (T)
$4.40
$4.55
$4.70
$4.85
Beverage Captain (T) 7(i)
$4.75
$4.90
$5.05
$5.20
Beverage Captain (T)
$4.75
$4.90
$5.05
$5.20
Beverage Cart H/H (T) 7(i)
$3.65
$3.80
$3.95
$4.10
Beverage Cart H/H (T)
$3.65
$3.80
$3.95
$4.10
Beverage H/H (T)
$5.20
$5.20
$5.35
$5.50
Beverage H/H Banquets (T) 7(i)
$4.40
$4.55
$4.70
$4.85
Beverage H/H Banquets (T)
$4.40
$4.55
$4.70
$4.85
Food & Bev Assistant (T)
$5.10
$5.25
$5.40
$5.55
Food & Bev Captain (T) 7(i)
$3.65
$3.80
$3.95
$4.10
Food & Bev Captain (T)
$3.65
$3.80
$3.95
$4.10
Food & Bev Dinner Show Server (T)
$3.65
$3.80
$3.95
$4.10
Food & Bev Dinner Show Svr (T) 7(i)
$3.65
$3.80
$3.95
$4.10
Food & Bev Service H/H (T)
$3.65
$3.80
$3.95
$4.10
Hospitality Service H/H (T)
$3.65
$3.80
$3.95
$4.10
Special Service H/H (T)
$3.65
$3.80
$3.95
$4.10

[Superspectral]

Putting the money one intends to tip, in a cup or on the table, and informing the server that this is where their tip starts - and maybe I'm reading a different post but I see NOTHING in that one that implies that the diner would ever be ADDING to the saucer (and I've seen this so-called 'advice' before) - is tantamount to one's boss in any job placing the person's wage on a desk, telling them that this is where their pay starts, and then removing money based on percieved performance.

This is almost exactly what Disney is doing in the way they handle "suggesting" a tip amount. From what has been posted on the boards, the server comes back with a check with a suggested 18% and 20% tip amount pre-calculated on the check. (If paying by room key), the guest then has to write in on the check the amount of tip before the server takes the check and key back to settle the check. This is just like Disney putting the 20% tip in the cup on the table for you (using your money by the way) and then asking you to take it back, in front of the server, if you think a lesser tip is appropriate.

[Sparkie]

Disney isnt the only one putting tip suggestions on the check. We ate at Wings in Bham last weekend and on our check was our total and then under that was Suggested tip 15% and an amount and Suggested tip 20% and an amount. I just thought it was interesting after much discussion on these boards that Disney is printing that information on the check that I would also see it on a check at a local resturant.

[Superspectral]

I don't understand why WDW feels that removing a guaranteed gratuity HELPS the servers gain a larger tip, when now everyone is going to tip what they thought the meal/service was worth.

Elsewhere on the board the union contract was posted and it revealed that the servers are in fact getting a guaranteed service charge of 3% which is paid by Disney in addition to whatever gratuity the guest pays. The guests are heavily pressured, by the way the check is presented with a suggested 18%-20% tip, which if paid by room key, must be settled in front of the server. So before they were guaranteed an 18% service charge, now they are getting a combined 21-23% combined service charge and tip. It is entirely likely that the servers are getting more service charge and tip per customer than they got on the old plan.

[Superspectral]

Disney isnt the only one putting tip suggestions on the check. We ate at Wings in Bham last weekend and on our check was our total and then under that was Suggested tip 15% and an amount and Suggested tip 20% and an amount. I just thought it was interesting after much discussion on these boards that Disney is printing that information on the check that I would also see it on a check at a local resturant.

The key difference is tip is traditionally settled when the guests leave the table (by leaving cash or writing a tip on the credit card receipt). In this case, a suggested tip can be viewed as a light pressure or a calculating convenience if your are charitable. Disney is requiring guests paying gratuities via room key to settle the tip at the same time as the rest of the check, so any tip less than the suggested amount theoretically runs the risk of confronation with the server, which is a _much_ greater amount of pressure.

[wezee]

I'm not treally interested in the servers base wage, and feel it has absolutely no bearing on the appropriate gratuity any server ( not just at WDW) should be paid. Also, I would not feel comfortable with my hourly wage being published on the internet.

[TLSnell1981]

Just have being diagnostic with breast cancer and head to cancel our vacation in WDW.
In my "good” days when the chemo isn't to bad I read the board feeling still a little bit of the magic

I made a promess to give a big tipp to all the waiters as soon as I'm aible to return to WDW.:flower3:

:cutie:

I remember !! I have thought about you and wondered how you were doing. You have been in my thoughts and prayers. Here's wishing and hoping for more good days.pixiedust:

[TLSnell1981]

I'm not treally interested in the servers base wage, and feel it has absolutely no bearing on the appropriate gratuity any server ( not just at WDW) should be paid. Also, I would not feel comfortable with my hourly wage being published on the internet.

The amounts posted were originally posted by Dis servers. Also, the hourly wage is posted all over the internet....not just here.

It doesn't have any bearing to me either.....but I bet it does to the servers when they receive their paycheck!

[Tricia1972]

I'm not treally interested in the servers base wage, and feel it has absolutely no bearing on the appropriate gratuity any server ( not just at WDW) should be paid. Also, I would not feel comfortable with my hourly wage being published on the internet.

I appreciate you feeling like that about the wages being made public. However, the entire Disney Contract is on the internet - this is just copied and pasted from information that is already out there from another source. Were it a private thing I wouldn't have shared. That'd be a big breach in trust.

I agree that it (the servers base wage) shouldn't affect your tipping, however I felt it important to address that their base wage is not the $2.00/hr that was being cited by some in this thread. Falsely believing that a server at Disney makes $2.00/hr may affect some people's positions on tipping. For those that it does affect, I believe that they should have the correct (public) information.

[disneyfav4ever]

I agree with #1 and #3, if the service is bad, don't tip highly. I am very easy to please, and have only left less then 15% once at Disney.

#2 I can't agree with. You know Disney's prices are high, the tips are just a part of the cost while dining out, and you shouldn't tip less just because the food cost is higher then normal.

#4 I would say it depends. If the food tastes bad, or is something you just don't care for, then it is not the server's fault. If it is something the server messed up, then depending on how it is handled, it should or should not affect the tip.

[disneyfav4ever]

minimum wage is $7.25Not for servers!

[disneyfav4ever]

Or a job as a restaurant server for a while, to experience what it's REALLY like... and worth.I agree.

[disneyfav4ever]

I again respectfully disagree; the diner HAD at least one serving of the beverage of choice - it seems unreasonable to effectively not pay for a given item because more than one of that item was not received. Just for example: appetizer = $6, entree = $18, dessert = $4, coffee = $2. Total check $30. Fifteen percent (standard tip) of that is $4.50; instead, the server is tipped $2.50, or EIGHT-point-three percent? Doesn't make sense.It doesn't make sense to me either. :confused3

[TLSnell1981]

It doesn't make sense to me either. :confused3

In the real world....people tip according to the service they receive. They don't think they are there to supplement an employee's wages.....nor do the tip item by item. I really think this gets way over analyzed sometimes.

[WildernessBride]

I really think this gets way over analyzed sometimes.

Amen to that!:hippie:

[libinatorsmom]

I believe in tipping on service - I use 20% as a baseline... but totally due it on service.. good service is about 20% GREAT SERVICE is more... we have been known to give a 50% to 75% tip for GREAT service and bad serivice - well depends how bad...

[kaytieeldr]

:lmao: kaytieeldr, either you feel really strongly about your post, or the boards are messing up again :rotfl:
Little of both? :teeth:

Right after this posts, I'm going to try to do something about those echoes... echoes... echoes... echoes...

[kaytieeldr]

This is almost exactly what Disney is doing in the way they handle "suggesting" a tip amount. From what has been posted on the boards, the server comes back with a check with a suggested 18% and 20% tip amount pre-calculated on the check. (If paying by room key), the guest then has to write in on the check the amount of tip before the server takes the check and key back to settle the check. This is just like Disney putting the 20% tip in the cup on the table for you (using your money by the way) and then asking you to take it back, in front of the server, if you think a lesser tip is appropriate.
Y'know, I can really see your point - but I don't see it that way.
That 'money in the saucer and telling the server "This is your starting tip"' is just an updated version of the old 'placing a stack of ones on the table' and saying the same thing. In both cases, and despite TLSnell's statement that her servers would be doing everything they can to get the saucer filled to the top, that's NOT how it works (among the few diners who actually do this). Nobody adds to the tip; it's more like Pastorswife said, about removing money when this isn't done, or when you're not told that, or your beverage needs to be refilled longer than you want - the diners remove money, they don't add to it.

[TLSnell1981]

Y'know, I can really see your point - but I don't see it that way.
That 'money in the saucer and telling the server "This is your starting tip"' is just an updated version of the old 'placing a stack of ones on the table' and saying the same thing. In both cases, and despite TLSnell's statement that her servers would be doing everything they can to get the saucer filled to the top, that's NOT how it works (among the few diners who actually do this). Nobody adds to the tip; it's more like Pastorswife said, about removing money when this isn't done, or when you're not told that, or your beverage needs to be refilled longer than you want - the diners remove money, they don't add to it.

I have personally never seen this done. I have had customers tip on the front end and tell their servers they expected spectacular service.....of course they received it and sometimes received a larger gratuity in the end.

[caroline1851]

I would imagine servers make a lot of money. If they wait on what....5 tables per hour? Would that be a good average and if the bill is $100, they're making typically $10-25 per bill which would be $50-125/hr. in that hour of 5 tables? How much do they get to keep and how much do they have to share with other staff?
It would seem as though they are making a decent living with a job that does not require any education (but obvioulsy it takes a lot of skill and patience)
It seems that so many people feel bad for the wait staff. that's the job they've chosen and again, it seems like they must make a decent living. What's there to feel bad about?

[tloft]

just wanted to throw my two cents in:

Tipping has been around in Western Civilization for over 400 years. Most Western European countries have moved away from tipping towards the "service charge". I'm not sure why the semantics of a "service charge" versus an "automatic gratuity" are so upsetting. As with most things, Europe is ahead of the cultural curve and we are seeing this trend slowly coming to America. Per Se, a very high end New York restaurant, was lauded in the New York Times for abolishing the tip in lieu of the service charge. This is a $250/head restaurant with a 2 month waiting list. The service charge, included in that price, is a 20% gratuity to the service. An while percentages vary, the service charge is how servers in countries that don't have "gratuity" are paid. Perhaps it is a purely psychological discomfort with the notion of being in charge of someones compensation - the gratuity - that causes people to believe that a "service charge" that nets the exact same results is somehow different. Also, guess what happened after implementing the service charge included set price menu. You guessed it - customers continued to tip extra. Also, the menu price has increased 69% in 2.5 years. Here are some links:

http://www.chowhound.com/topics/361713
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/10/opinion/10shaw.html?ex=1281326400&en=fce94190f5ff2faa&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

The 18% mandatory tip on parties of 6 or more also seems to cause a lot of consternation. This has not just come into play in Disney World, but is common all over the place at all classes of restaurants. Why? Well, numerous studies have demonstrated that the more people the smaller the bill adjusted tip is. And not by a small amount either. With an average tip for a single diner of 17.5% every additional diner at the table decreases the average tip by .7%. 6 people at a table average a 13.3% tip. 8 people at a table average a 11.9%. Obviously no one here would ever tip that way, unless the service was terrible, but on average everyone else does. Unhappy waiters/waitresses who work large parties and get stiffed spread their misery to other tables. These customers complain to managers. These servers complain to managers. Overtime it obviously became apparent the it was worth a small amount of griping about an auto-grat at the beginning of a meal than dealing with the ramnifications of p.o.'ed servers and miserable customers. Here some research on the subject:

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~dicook/stat503/05/cs-tips2.pdf

Finally, for all the insistence here that everyone wants to be free to tip based exclusively on the quality of service, the facts don't show that to be true in the real world. In a rather large survey tip percentage showed little correlation to the rating service was given. However, there were dramatic differences in how men tip women, women tip men, how different ethnic groups tip each other, whether the server mentioned their name, bent down to talk, etc. More fun stuff, this from the world's foremost authority on the subject of tipping:

http://people.cornell.edu/pages/wml3/pdf/Beyond_Gratitude_and_Gratuity.pdf

Nothing anyone says here is actually going to change anyone elses opinion on this topic. Automatic gratuties will continue to become the norm until we switch the term to service charges. Then we can argue whether the people that don't tip above the service charge are cheapskates or whether the people that do are show off so an sos. However, I will point out that I love going to Disney World and have never had a "bad" experience although I have had some thoroughly average service. But I would never want to go into a restaurant betting against the service as badly as some people here seem to want to. Stop fretting about "what if" your service is so bad you would want to leave less than 18%. On a $100 meal if you felt your service would have gotten 15% you are talking about a difference of $3. Is this really worth getting you blood pressure up about? If something about the experience was so bad that you think you need to stiff the server (10% or less - in my opinion) then something probably happened that needs to be brought to someones attention - so take the moment to speak to a manager and save someone else from going through the same thing. If it doesn't rise to speaking to a manager it probably doesn't deserve less than 15%.

About the 3% gratuity - no one here really knows anything about what that means at all. I will guess though, that 3% is the amount that Disney servers tip out nightly to the rest of the house. The rate would be in line with nicer restaurants so certainly makes a plausible solution. Again, I don't know why everyone wants so badly to find reason to give as little as possible to the people that choose to come at work at what is supposedly our favorite place.

And before the haters start in, I didn't say one word about how hard anyone works, how buffets in the world compare outside of it, or how much/little anyone actually makes.

[TLSnell1981]

The restaurants I have dined at in Europe have the service included. It is not, per se, a separate service charge. The price you see on the menu includes everything. Servers in other countries make nowhere near what is possible here in the states. They also receive training in their trade. So you are really not making a fair comparison to restaurants that automatically add a percentage....whether it is included in the menu price or on your check.

I do think the European system works much better. I also like the fact that all their prices already have the tax included.

[tloft]

The restaurants I have dined at in Europe have the service included. It is not, per se, a separate service charge. The price you see on the menu includes everything. Servers in other countries make nowhere near what is possible here in the states. They also receive training in their trade. So you are really not making a fair comparison to restaurants that automatically add a percentage....whether it is included in the menu price or on your check.

I do think the European system works much better. I also like the fact that all their prices already have the tax included.


I will provide the first link I found but I think Fodors is a fairly reputable source.

http://www.fodors.com/news/story_1892.html

According to them of the 18 countries discussed you can typically expect a service charge included in your final price in 10 of them. Of those it is encouraged that you tip extra in 7. In only Spain and Portugal earn the distinction that service is included in price but does not contain a service charge - and tipping is encouraged. Belgium earns the distinction as the only country where there is neither a service charge nor is tipping encouraged.

I think that in many of these countries the you are given one price, but it is inclusive of tax and service charge.

I am mainly trying to point out that US restaurants are behind the curve on hiding the cost of servers in the meal. The most exclusive restaurant in Manhattan can get away with it. Your neighborhood family restaurant can't because the competition will eat them alive. Suddenly their $6 sandwich is $7.20 service included, but everyone decides to go to their competitor where a sandwich is $6 and they can decide how much to leave. European restaurants aren't running at lower profits because they are more charitable to their employees and customers. They have just managed to switch the paradigm of how people perceive what they are paying.

At a Chili's (the US based chain) in London, today it would cost 9.45 Euro for a Cajun Chicken Sandwich. Here today in my town this same sandwich costs $7.29. After converting currency the same sandwich, from the same chain restaurant would cost me $13.85. I would hope the 90% increase in cost would help cover a wage similar to tip earnings in the US.

[tloft]

They also receive training in their trade.

Is this to imply that somehow US servers aren't trained and are inferior to European servers?

[TLSnell1981]

Is this to imply that somehow US servers aren't trained and are inferior to European servers?

Not at all. In the european equivalent of high school, kids actually choose to go on to college or to learn a trade. They do not generally wait until they are out of high school to start studying or training for their profession. Most U.S. servers receive on the job training, more or less. There was no insult intended. Some people are more suited to college than others. I think your education should include what you expect to do (job wise) when it is completed.

[tloft]

Not at all. In the european equivalent of high school, kids actually choose to go on to college or to learn a trade. They do not generally wait until they are out of high school to start studying or training for their profession. Most U.S. servers receive on the job training, more or less. There was no insult intended. Some people are more suited to college than others. I think your education should include what you expect to do (job wise) when it is completed.


That why I asked before jumping on that. I agree with that for the most part but could still construe the "some people are more suited to college than others" to imply that the employees you encounter at restaurants aren't college material or just fell into their career. Sorry if I'm misreading it. At my restaurant 7 of 8 employees have college degrees 4 of them in a culinary or hospitality field. The youngest is 28 years old and I would consider all of them professionals in this industry, and this is their career. I would expect them to be treated with the same dignity and respect as any other professional in any other field.

[tndisneyfan]

Putting the money one intends to tip, in a cup or on the table, and informing the server that this is where their tip starts - and maybe I'm reading a different post but I see NOTHING in that one that implies that the diner would ever be ADDING to the saucer (and I've seen this so-called 'advice' before) - is tantamount to one's boss in any job placing the person's wage on a desk, telling them that this is where their pay starts, and then removing money based on percieved performance.



Trying to lighten the mood here a little. This post reminds me of that TV show Third Rock From the Sun. John Lithgow didn't understand about tipping so he put money on the table and told the waitress this was her highest potential tip. He took money away when the server mixed up his and Jane Curtain's drinks, then Jane Curtain wanted to know why her drink tasted funny. Really funny episode.

BAck on subject, I would hate for someone to do that to me. I wouldn't want money dangled in from of my face like that.

[sjaakie]

The restaurants I have dined at in Europe have the service included. It is not, per se, a separate service charge. The price you see on the menu includes everything. Servers in other countries make nowhere near what is possible here in the states. They also receive training in their trade. So you are really not making a fair comparison to restaurants that automatically add a percentage....whether it is included in the menu price or on your check.

I do think the European system works much better. I also like the fact that all their prices already have the tax included.

We dined in the Netherlands, France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Luxemburg and Belgium and there’s no tipping.
If you like the server personal you MAY give him a tip but its not a common use.

Strangely in Austria you have to rent the plates and silver.

There’s a special amount on the bill for using it but you can read that also on the menu.


In my country its even a law that all prices in shops ore restaurants ore where ever MUST include taxes.

If I'm not mistaking its an EU law also.

[sjaakie]

Not at all. In the european equivalent of high school, kids actually choose to go on to college or to learn a trade. They do not generally wait until they are out of high school to start studying or training for their profession.

That’s thru.

They work mostly in the profession they choose in the weekend ore in case of a waiter in the evening.
My son's friend is in training for chef kook but he also has to wait on people to learn all the inns and outs of the profession.
So the chef knows how difficult a customer could be.

Last week he served our food :lmao: and I tipped him very well :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2

[tloft]

We dined in the Netherlands, France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Luxemburg and Belgium and there’s no tipping.
If you like the server personal you MAY give him a tip but its not a common use.


The Netherlands
Tip customs lean on the generous side in the Netherlands' larger cities; the Dutch tip smaller amounts in smaller cities and towns. In Amsterdam and other major cities, restaurants normally include a service charge of 5%. Tip 10% extra if you've really enjoyed the meal and you got good service, and leave the tip as change rather than putting it on your credit card. If you're not satisfied, don't leave anything.

France
Bills in bars and restaurants include 15% service, but it is customary to round out your bill with some small change unless you're dissatisfied. The amount of this varies: anywhere from €.10 if you've merely bought a beer, to €2 after a meal.

Germany
Service is included in the price of your bill, but it is customary to leave a 10% tip. Pay the waiter directly rather than leave any money or a tip on the table. If service is poor, round the bill up to the next euro and leave it at that.

Austria
Although virtually all restaurants include a 10% service charge, tipping 5%-7% is customary. You can tip a little more if you've received exceptional service.

Switzerland
Despite all protests to the contrary and menus marked service compris, the Swiss do tip at restaurants, giving quantities anywhere from the change from the nearest franc to 10 SF or more for a world-class meal that has been exquisitely served. If, in a café, the server settles the bill at the table, calculate the total, including tip, and tell her the total sum you'd like to pay. If you need more time to calculate, you may leave the tip on the table, though this isn't common practice in outdoor cafés. If you're paying for a meal with a credit card, try to tip in cash.

Belgium
A tip may be included; if it is, you'll see a clear indication on the bill. If service is not included, people often round up a bit when paying, but it isn't offensive to pay the exact amount.

I've never been to any of these countries but I will consider Fodors a reputable source on international travel. If anything I think it highlights that gratuity is just as convoluted elsewhere. According to Fodors it is customary to leave some sort of tip in all of these cities but Belgium. My only point is that a lot of people believe switching to a European method would make things better here. There doesn't appear to be any uniformity to it and appears just as complicated, misunderstood, and controversial. Someone from Holland that has traveled extensively insists there is no tipping in these countries. Professional travels writers contend that there is.

[sjaakie]

The Netherlands
Tip customs lean on the generous side in the Netherlands' larger cities; the Dutch tip smaller amounts in smaller cities and towns. In Amsterdam and other major cities, restaurants normally include a service charge of 5%. Tip 10% extra if you've really enjoyed the meal and you got good service, and leave the tip as change rather than putting it on your credit card. If you're not satisfied, don't leave anything.

France
Bills in bars and restaurants include 15% service, but it is customary to round out your bill with some small change unless you're dissatisfied. The amount of this varies: anywhere from €.10 if you've merely bought a beer, to €2 after a meal.

Germany
Service is included in the price of your bill, but it is customary to leave a 10% tip. Pay the waiter directly rather than leave any money or a tip on the table. If service is poor, round the bill up to the next euro and leave it at that.

Austria
Although virtually all restaurants include a 10% service charge, tipping 5%-7% is customary. You can tip a little more if you've received exceptional service.

Switzerland
Despite all protests to the contrary and menus marked service compris, the Swiss do tip at restaurants, giving quantities anywhere from the change from the nearest franc to 10 SF or more for a world-class meal that has been exquisitely served. If, in a café, the server settles the bill at the table, calculate the total, including tip, and tell her the total sum you'd like to pay. If you need more time to calculate, you may leave the tip on the table, though this isn't common practice in outdoor cafés. If you're paying for a meal with a credit card, try to tip in cash.

Belgium
A tip may be included; if it is, you'll see a clear indication on the bill. If service is not included, people often round up a bit when paying, but it isn't offensive to pay the exact amount.

I've never been to any of these countries but I will consider Fodors a reputable source on international travel. If anything I think it highlights that gratuity is just as convoluted elsewhere. According to Fodors it is customary to leave some sort of tip in all of these cities but Belgium. My only point is that a lot of people believe switching to a European method would make things better here. There doesn't appear to be any uniformity to it and appears just as complicated, misunderstood, and controversial. Someone from Holland that has traveled extensively insists there is no tipping in these countries. Professional travels writers contend that there is.


That's a book a no reality.
Why do you think that American tourist are so welkom?
They read that book.

You MAY give a tipp but its something extra and not something a waiter ore his family has to live from.

[tloft]

That's a book a no reality.
Why do you think that American tourist are so welkom?
They read that book.

You MAY give a tipp but its something extra and not something a waiter ore his family has to live from.

well another quick check shows the Frommers - not only the original American authority on European travel, but the authority on budget travel also acknowledges that additional gratuity is common if not required in the same countries.

All I know is that there are people here that believe a nice compliment is sufficient so obviously in areas where the tip is lower it is bound to be even more confused. Regardless, the cost of dining in any of these countries is considerably more expensive than here in the U.S.

[tloft]

Gratuity advice from people in each respective country:

http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/tips/eurotips.htm

[sjaakie]

Gratuity advice from people in each respective country:

http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/tips/eurotips.htm

I rest my case and you winn :rotfl2: :rotfl2:
Go ahead and tipp.


O yes and I bought these books also about America and found a whole other reality that they wrote. As a matter of fact your far more lovely than in these books.:thumbsup2 :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2

[tloft]

I rest my case and you winn :rotfl2: :rotfl2:
Go ahead and tipp.

I'm not coming to Europe anytime soon so it doesn't concern me. It is just disingenuous of people to act like it is so simple everywhere else but here.

[bicker]

Thanks tloft for the excellent information and insightful comments.

[sjaakie]

Thanks tloft for the excellent information and insightful comments.


Just anther tip. My mother visited Russia last year and the people are very gratefull for paintablets,pantys and candy.

[TLSnell1981]

That's a book a no reality.
Why do you think that American tourist are so welkom?
They read that book.

You MAY give a tipp but its something extra and not something a waiter ore his family has to live from.

Your statement is very correct. I do tip even when I go across the pond, but not as much as I do here. It is a true gratuity.

[sjaakie]

Your statement is very correct. I do tip even when I go across the pond, but not as much as I do here. It is a true gratuity.

One of my friends works in the Disney Hotel in Paris. She always says that the American and Arabic quests tipp so generous she feels its sometimes a bitt overdone.

So your just very good tippers :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2

Its just a diffrence between two continents.

[TLSnell1981]

One of my friends works in the Disney Hotel in Paris. She always says that the American and Arabic quests tipp so generous she feels its sometimes a bitt overdone.

So your just very good tippers :thumbsup2 :thumbsup2

Its just a diffrence between two continents.

The first time I went over, I was told I was too generous. My step-father has many friends and colleagues in France and Germany. They were constantly reminding me that I was giving too much.....and went on to explain the difference in pay for servers and local customs.

[TheDizDad]

:rolleyes2 Is five of the same post some kind of record? Sorry about that, folks!

No...it's called "post whoring."
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=post+whoring In case someone needs a reference.

[kaytieeldr]

Ouch! It really WAS due to the boards acting up! Honestly! I mean, I really don't need to boost my post count!

[TheDizDad]

As far as the whole tipping thing, I think the tip should reflect the type of service the customer received. I know the restaurants can be a busy place at a Disney resort. I understand the whole crying kids thing. It is the parents responsibility to keep their kids in line. I understand the large party thing. If a server can't handle it...don't take it. I always would set some ground rules with large parties. Tell them that I do have other tables and that when I come to theirs that they be ready to tell me everything they need at one time...not each time I came back with something. If the server has a difficult table...don't take it out on the other tables. I waited tables for 7 years. I know what a server is going through. I am more lenient when we eat out. But if I am paying $100 for a meal...the service has to be better than what I get at "Denny's." I have a list of things that bring a tip down in my mind.
1) Forgetting to bring something.
2) Screwing up an order. (especially from a server that doesn't write the orders down and tries to remember them)
3) Not watching drink levels.
4) Rude waiter/waitress.
5) Disappearing waiter/waitress.
6) No check backs.
7) Bad or undercooked food. Only if a replacement takes too long to get back out or not offered.
8) Too many excuses.
9) Can't understand them. (needs no explanation)
10) Appearance.
11) Smells like a cigarette.
12) No menu knowledge.
This is my opinion. I am positive that someone will disagree. :hug: TheDizMom and I usually tip between 15 and 20%. We have gone lower. Sometimes we disagree on the level of service when it comes to tip amount. She is more liberal. But she is a democrat and I am a republican. There are some things I am forgetting...but I am done typing for a while. Don't want to get carpal tunnel.:surfweb:

[TheDizDad]

Ouch! It really WAS due to the boards acting up! Honestly! I mean, I really don't need to boost my post count!

:hug:

[disneyfav4ever]

The only thing that really gets me, and affects the tip, is when a server is rude. I've had servers that I've had trouble understanding, but that has mainly been at the World Showcase restaurants with accents, and I never let that affect the tip. I also don't let small mistakes affect it either.

[Annabelleasb]

Just commenting a bit more.. my Mom was a waitress when I was growing up.. She was a good server and took her job seriously. The cute part of this story is that she saved all her silver coin....her Kennedy coins, this is before the coins were mixed and were all silver. I have them to this day safely put away... and knowing I have them makes me think of her and how hard she worked for that coin. I guess what I am saying here is some really take pride in their jobs to serve the public. I know many servers who are like that today.



Your mother is the reason I tip "good"!!! My Aunt was the same way, she could run a restaurant by herself, hands down!!---She loved her job!

[IWISHFORDISNEY]

That man's no troll, he's my husband! :lmao:

And he has a post count of two because I wouldn't let him post on this subject under *my* account. I have my reputation to consider, 'ya know. ;)

Oh, and thanks to the disers who are having a reasonable discussion. :flower3: I certainly am sick of talking about it.

(Oh, and for the record, he's not stiffing anyone because I make sure to always take the bill.) :rolleyes1

Michy I found this. LOL. We must always make up for our hubbys. If I didint take over they might set our room afire. JK. Troll I think not.

Just for the record I dont ever not tip but I do tip less for bad service and that is just what we should do. If I do a bad job I would just get fired or sued which is much worse than a bad tip.;)

[PrinceAndPrincessQ]

That man's no troll, he's my husband! :lmao:

And he has a post count of two because I wouldn't let him post on this subject under *my* account. I have my reputation to consider, 'ya know. ;)

Oh, and thanks to the disers who are having a reasonable discussion. :flower3: I certainly am sick of talking about it.

(Oh, and for the record, he's not stiffing anyone because I make sure to always take the bill.) :rolleyes1

heheheheeeeeee dont you love 'standing by your man' lol. :goodvibes

Proud of you!!! :hug: People are indeed allowed to have and share their own opinion.

I loved the fact that the ddp automatically gave the servers the 18%. In most every single case that I can think of, when we were there in Oct 2006, the servers earned that. They will earn less now, imo. I hope not, but they probably will.

Tipping is what the servers are living off of.......I think you should tip the 15 to 20%, but dont think if my service was rude and or otherwise poor that I will leave one penny more than I have to. I think tipping is suppose to be a way to show the server that you appreciate their attentiveness and that they made the meal as comfortable as possible. And most servers do a fine job of this.

I am not sure if I will carry cash to tip or use room key. I always hate seeing more on my key lolol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :guilty:

[jonkatony]

At a Chili's (the US based chain) in London, today it would cost 9.45 Euro

Now you have gone and done it, we are not Euro's the currency here are pounds.

[tloft]

At a Chili's (the US based chain) in London, today it would cost 9.45 Euro

Now you have gone and done it, we are not Euro's the currency here are pounds.

Good catch and an honest mistake that actually only proves my point more. One pound equals 1.98 dollars so that sandwich would cost $18.71, an increase of 156% over our price here. I would be more than happy to charge $18 for a chicken sandwich and include tax and gratuity. Be careful what you wish for.

[rubberband1293]

:mad: Well, tear into me now - here's my two cents worth. I just returned from a convention at Coronado Springs. As a party of one, I was unable to get priority seating or reservations anywhere. Logically, they prefer parties of mulitples so I was left to eat at Pepper's Market each night. If you've never been, you go from station to station selecting and collecting your own meal. The server brings your drink. If you want an extra roll, you go to the bakery station yourself. If you want a refill of Coke, you go to the refill station yourself. The first night there, the server told me that I had to get my own food, but she would get my first drink. Why should I tip 15% or more when I had to get my own food and condiments? Thankfully I had a choice and let what I felt was fair for getting me a Coke. While I'm on the subject, I really disagree with the custom of tipping for bad or mediocre service, and I don't - and I usually don't tip people for doing just their job. I rarely tip housekeeping - their job is to collect and replace towels, change bedlinens, take the trash and vacuum. The only time I have ever tipped housekeeping is when they have left towel animals and arranged the kids toys as a surprise. There are just too many hands stretched out sometimes. This is just how I feel - be gentle when you flame me.

[kaytieeldr]

The first night there, the server told me that I had to get my own food, but she would get my first drink. Why should I tip 15% or more when I had to get my own food and condiments? Thankfully I had a choice and let what I felt was fair for getting me a Coke. Okay, now THAT'S interesting - because Pepper Market has always added an automatic 10% service charge to any dine-in Guests, since the resort opened. Are you saying that now the/any tip is entirely up to the Guest? And no, this is NOT a flame - it's a genuine question.

[rubberband1293]

Well I'll be darned! I read your response and then pulled out a couple of receipts and yes I was charged 10% and did not even realize it. So, I kind of went against my own principles because I tipped about 10% everytime (which brings the total to 20%!!!). That's what I love about these boards - you can always learn something new!

[tloft]

Well I'll be darned! I read your response and then pulled out a couple of receipts and yes I was charged 10% and did not even realize it. So, I kind of went against my own principles because I tipped about 10% everytime (which brings the total to 20%!!!). That's what I love about these boards - you can always learn something new!

I've never been to Pepper Market but I certainly agree that you wouldn't need to tip 15% or more. For that kind of service 10% sounds high. It doesn't sound like they do anything more than the folks at Wolfgang Pucks Express do and I don't think tipping is expected there. I always leave like $5 on the table there, but only because the servers I've had were fairly pleasant and may have grabbed a drink refill for us.

I just noticed this weekend that Sonic now has "we can add a tip to your credit card" signs at their drive-up stations. Does anyone tip here? I consider myself a pretty good tipper but have never thought to tip there. Admittedly, I don't go very often and probably have used the drive thru more.

When I advocate for good tipping at sit down restaurants it is predicated on receiving at the least decent service. Even included service in the price doesn't preclude the restaurant and the servers from having a responsibility. If I order a $25 steak and is poorly prepared, not the cut I order (and I have seen NY Strip substituted for ribeye on more than one occassion), gotten cold, whatever...it is within my rights to refuse it. But I don't go out to eat all the time dreading that my food won't meet my expectations. I think the same applies to service. If the restaurant, any restaurant, chooses to use an auto-gratuity that doesn't absolve anyone of responsibility. At those restaurants, if the service is poor I would seek a reduction in my bill, just as I would expect to not pay for a steak I return. I think anyone would be crazy to tip 15% or more if the service made them genuinely unhappy, I just don't understand all the fretting and worrying about it.

[tloft]

duplicate post - sorry

[septbaby]

I just noticed this weekend that Sonic now has "we can add a tip to your credit card" signs at their drive-up stations. Does anyone tip here? I consider myself a pretty good tipper but have never thought to tip there. Admittedly, I don't go very often and probably have used the drive thru more.

Wow, that's kind of bold on their part. I'll have to keep my eyes open to see if more places do this. I wonder if it's a Sonic thing or just something an individual owner/operator is doing.

[TLSnell1981]

At a Chili's (the US based chain) in London, today it would cost 9.45 Euro for a Cajun Chicken Sandwich. Here today in my town this same sandwich costs $7.29. After converting currency the same sandwich, from the same chain restaurant would cost me $13.85. I would hope the 90% increase in cost would help cover a wage similar to tip earnings in the US.

The server is being paid in in sterling pounds so your math isn't accurate. You are paying more because our dollar is so devalued.

[TLSnell1981]

I just noticed this weekend that Sonic now has "we can add a tip to your credit card" signs at their drive-up stations. Does anyone tip here? I consider myself a pretty good tipper but have never thought to tip there.

Yes, I tip at Sonic. Until today, it was the only fast food restaurant within 5 or 6 miles from where I live.....McDonalds opened today. I tip 20% or a minimum or $1 per person order for....which is sometimes more that 20%

[PaulaSB12]

:mad: Well, tear into me now - here's my two cents worth. I just returned from a convention at Coronado Springs. As a party of one, I was unable to get priority seating or reservations anywhere. Logically, they prefer parties of mulitples so I was left to eat at Pepper's Market each night. If you've never been, you go from station to station selecting and collecting your own meal. The server brings your drink. If you want an extra roll, you go to the bakery station yourself. If you want a refill of Coke, you go to the refill station yourself. The first night there, the server told me that I had to get my own food, but she would get my first drink. Why should I tip 15% or more when I had to get my own food and condiments? Thankfully I had a choice and let what I felt was fair for getting me a Coke. While I'm on the subject, I really disagree with the custom of tipping for bad or mediocre service, and I don't - and I usually don't tip people for doing just their job. I rarely tip housekeeping - their job is to collect and replace towels, change bedlinens, take the trash and vacuum. The only time I have ever tipped housekeeping is when they have left towel animals and arranged the kids toys as a surprise. There are just too many hands stretched out sometimes. This is just how I feel - be gentle when you flame me.


Thats strange I went solo for 3 weeks last september, got adrs for 1 at all the resteraunts, even changed a few on the day as I had changed my mind. Did they explain why you couldn't get any

[tloft]

The server is being paid in in sterling pounds so your math isn't accurate. You are paying more because our dollar is so devalued.

The math is accurate, it just isn't apples to apples. I certainly understand that there are different overheads in each situation but the general point is that it is far more expensive to eat over there than over here.

Of course the currency exchange inflates the cost but should food diminish price dramatically in cost in places with a favorable exchange rate? In Leon, Mexico, a place I have actually been, the same chain charges 179 Mexican Pesos for a rib platter. That converts to $16.11. The same thing here is $14.99. So, I still stand by the point that comparably speaking it is inexpensive to dine here and the gratuity system suits me fine.

[tloft]

Wow, that's kind of bold on their part. I'll have to keep my eyes open to see if more places do this. I wonder if it's a Sonic thing or just something an individual owner/operator is doing.

It was printed on hard plastic not just run off on a office printer and lamintated so I would imagine it was done at a corporate level - but anything is possible.

[TLSnell1981]

The math is accurate, it just isn't apples to apples. I certainly understand that there are different overheads in each situation but the general point is that it is far more expensive to eat over there than over here.

Of course the currency exchange inflates the cost but should food diminish price dramatically in cost in places with a favorable exchange rate? In Leon, Mexico, a place I have actually been, the same chain charges 179 Mexican Pesos for a rib platter. That converts to $16.11. The same thing here is $14.99. So, I still stand by the point that comparably speaking it is inexpensive to dine here and the gratuity system suits me fine.
It is only more expensive to eat over there for us...because of the exchange rate. I have been over many times and I know this to be true. You cannot have a true analogy if your numbers are skewed. You would have to assume the dollar and euro where equal before you could argue the price difference.

[sjaakie]

It is only more expensive to eat over there for us...because of the exchange rate. I have been over many times and I know this to be true. You cannot have a true analogy if your numbers are skewed. You would have to assume the dollar and euro where equal before you could argue the price difference.


Why do you think the DDP is so loved by us :rotfl2: :rotfl2:
For what the DDLXP costs you can't have one decent diner in Holland let alone have breakfast and a counterservice to.:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[tloft]

It is only more expensive to eat over there for us...because of the exchange rate. I have been over many times and I know this to be true. You cannot have a true analogy if your numbers are skewed. You would have to assume the dollar and euro where equal before you could argue the price difference.

"According to the new Zagat guide, the average price of a nice dinner out in London will run you far more than one in any other large city around the world. The average three course meal and a glass of wine costs £39.09, or about USD$79.38. Comparatively, it's $71.82 in Paris, $71.28 in Tokyo, $39.19 in New York City, and $31.74 in Los Angeles.

Not surprisingly, Londoners eat out less than those in other more sensibly priced cities. Londoners eat out just 2.5 times per week, compared to 2.9 in Paris, 3.6 in New York, and every other day in Tokyo."

[TLSnell1981]

"According to the new Zagat guide, the average price of a nice dinner out in London will run you far more than one in any other large city around the world. The average three course meal and a glass of wine costs £39.09, or about USD$79.38. Comparatively, it's $71.82 in Paris, $71.28 in Tokyo, $39.19 in New York City, and $31.74 in Los Angeles.

Not surprisingly, Londoners eat out less than those in other more sensibly priced cities. Londoners eat out just 2.5 times per week, compared to 2.9 in Paris, 3.6 in New York, and every other day in Tokyo."

As a PP stated, you are quoting books and not reality.

[sjaakie]

As a PP stated, you are quoting books and not reality.

Reality is always diffrent than bookwisdom.

[tloft]

I would argue that just because it is what you two believe or even have experienced that it doesn't make it "reality" for everyone else.

With the example of the Chili's restaurant, not adjusting for the currency exchange, the price was still 30% higher. But you have to adjust the currency and after making such adjustment it is even much more expensive over there. No matter what the whys and hows, in US dollars in is more expensive over there than here. By your real work logic food in Mexico should cost 90% less than here since that is the exchange rate. Doesn't work that way.

I'm sorry that you believe using objective data is somehow less reliable than what strangers on a message board claim to be the truth. It is also a way to escape the he said / she said factor that makes most of these discussions so pointless.

[anabelle]

The math is accurate, it just isn't apples to apples. I certainly understand that there are different overheads in each situation but the general point is that it is far more expensive to eat over there than over here.

Of course the currency exchange inflates the cost but should food diminish price dramatically in cost in places with a favorable exchange rate? In Leon, Mexico, a place I have actually been, the same chain charges 179 Mexican Pesos for a rib platter. That converts to $16.11. The same thing here is $14.99. So, I still stand by the point that comparably speaking it is inexpensive to dine here and the gratuity system suits me fine.

BTW my parents live in Leon....
Anyway, my dad still tips in Leon. He is an American Expatriate, so he earns dollars. People who live in Leon don't make the kind of money we do. They might make $25K dollars if you are an engineer or lawyer.

[tloft]

Okay - you are obviously going to make me work very hard at this. I used currency rates from http://www.x-rates.com/calculator.html.
Under their historical rates they have 19 years of info. The 19 year average exchange rate for the dollar to the british pund is 1 dollar to .59 pound. The conversion currently sits at 1 dollar to .50 pound. So when you argue that the cause of the price difference is solely the currency conversion due to the weak dollar then it is only fair to look at the difference between today's historically weak dollar - because the markets haven't had time to flush things out. Either inflation will rise in the US or the dollar will rise - there isn't much middle ground. So, using the 19 year average rate of 1 to .59 pound, which is admittedly a fairer comparison, my $7.29 chicken sandwich which costs 9.45 pound would have a cost to me of $16.02 a more modest cost increase to me of 119%. Or if you still don't like the comparison lets use the 19 year high of 1 dollar to .69 pound in 2002. This would yield a real cost to me of $13.69 and a increase to me of 88%. In any of those scenarios I wold just assume keep things the way they are.

One last point about currency exchanges. An Apple 80 GB iPod video classic at Amazon.uk is 148.90 pound. The same iPod at Amazon.com (US) is $249.00. This exchanges to $285.43 in the UK and $249 in the US. This is a cost increase of $36.43 or a percentage difference of 18% the US price. Well, the US dollar is exactly 18% off of its average against the pound of the last 19 years. Weakness in the dollar does not fully explain the dramatic cost difference in dining out.

[tloft]

BTW my parents live in Leon....
Anyway, my dad still tips in Leon. He is an American Expatriate, so he earns dollars. People who live in Leon don't make the kind of money we do. They might make $25K dollars if you are an engineer or lawyer.

I attended a wedding there last year - it was a beautiful place and we had a blast.

[bicker]

tloft does a have a point. Very often what people claim or even believe is true, based even on their own personal experience, turns out out to not be an accurate depiction of reality.

[sjaakie]

tloft does a have a point. Very often what people claim or even believe is true, based even on their own personal experience, turns out out to not be an accurate depiction of reality.

This is what I read over Florida
Is it thru? Ofcourse not, its book and newspaperwisdom and far from reality.

But as you say it could be the thruth because it is written so it must be thru.


It's open season on tourists in Florida.

Until just recently, Florida was called the Sunshine State and was on its way to being the vacation capital of the world. Now it's called the murder capital of America, a place where even visitors from Bosnia should fear to tread.

"Gunned Down Like Animals!" ran one British tabloid headline. "Shot Like a Dog," "Come to Sunny Florida and be Murdered for Absolutely Nothing," "Slaughter in the Sunshine" and "Plan Your Trip Like a Commando Raid" screamed others. Similarly, a Philadelphia Daily News headline blared: "Another foreign tourist is slain. And the Sunshine State becomes a STATE OF TERROR."

[KevGuy]

Wow, bicker over 27k post lol!! Hey I work in Burlington at Lahey.:thumbsup2

As for tipping, I usually give 15% as a rule, then if the service is great 20%. If it is totally horrible and a series of problems then I have been known to leave 1 red cent, which to my knowledge is basically an insult. I think I have done that twice in my life. On our last trip to Disney we had excellent or better service on probably half our ADR's and we used the DDP which had the 18% built in last year. On those I usually left an extra $5-10. One in particular was astounding service at the AK at Donalds Breakfastosaurus place, the old one in dino land. We had a server there named Neil from NY who was amazing, had us all in hysterics included me and the wife as well as kids in kidding around and made sure to "make" me and the wife get up and have our own pictures he took for us with the characters with our camera. Probably the best service I have ever had. I slipped him a $10 as we left while we were giving each other a ribbing over baseball. (A NY/Boston thing lol) As we entered the park the wife says to me I hope you gave him at least $10 I said yes, she says good so did I lol. I can't remember having that much fun at a meal out. It was well worth the $20 + 18%, because of the memory of that morning and my kids still talk about it a year later as we prepare to head back in a couple of months. And yes, we will be doing that ADR again per my kids. So that just goes to show you that if you provide excellent service it will go rewarded if you run into us. But if need be I will put down
$.01 if warrented as well and service is an abomination. You get what you deserve is how I see it.:cool2:

Despite the lack of convience I see the paying of tips separately as a good thing with the DDP. I did feel we were treated differently at least once last year because we were on the DDP because the server dissapeared and never once asked how we were doing or refilled drinks etc. That person still got their 18%, and I was not happy about that. I would have lowered to perhaps 10% given the way the plan is this year.:wizard:

[JimMIA]

This is what I read over Florida
Is it thru? Ofcourse not, its book and newspaperwisdom and far from reality.

But as you say it could be the thruth because it is written so it must be thru.


It's open season on tourists in Florida.

Until just recently, Florida was called the Sunshine State and was on its way to being the vacation capital of the world. Now it's called the murder capital of America, a place where even visitors from Bosnia should fear to tread.

"Gunned Down Like Animals!" ran one British tabloid headline. "Shot Like a Dog," "Come to Sunny Florida and be Murdered for Absolutely Nothing," "Slaughter in the Sunshine" and "Plan Your Trip Like a Commando Raid" screamed others. Similarly, a Philadelphia Daily News headline blared: "Another foreign tourist is slain. And the Sunshine State becomes a STATE OF TERROR."
You must be reading some 20 year old newspapers. Miami Vice was a long time ago. And it was fiction.

[RllngRckBrw]

I am a big tipper when you do a good job. I once left a $50 tip on top of the DDP tip 2 years ago because the waiter at the Coral Reef was charasmatic, and extremely plesent and helpful. I know that at times (especailly when being dehydrated in the park all day) I can be a pain asking for refills on my water, but this man went above and beoynd he always made sure it was filled and even brought 2 at a time for most of the meal. He did a great job of making us feel comfortable and did everything in his power to satisy what we needed.

On the flip side of this I have left resturants where the wait staff got nothing because of their attitude or terrible service. This may make me sound crazy but I once opened up the door to the kitchen to interupt their "break" because I had waited for 20 min and not seen a waiter even though I could hear them taking in the kitchen about nothing.

Anyway the point I am trying to get to is this. To me a tip is a matter of showing your appreciation/lack there of to the waiter/waitress. It should be a reflection of his/her performance, and so you can not hold the food quality against them (unless it is something extremely noticable visually). I agree that you should say something but that does not need to be reflected in the ammount of your tip.

[bicker]

Wow, bicker over 27k post lol!!Some of us have been here since the beginning. :) Hey I work in Burlington at Lahey.:thumbsup2 Neat.

[tloft]

This is what I read over Florida
Is it thru? Ofcourse not, its book and newspaperwisdom and far from reality.

But as you say it could be the thruth because it is written so it must be thru.


It's open season on tourists in Florida.

Until just recently, Florida was called the Sunshine State and was on its way to being the vacation capital of the world. Now it's called the murder capital of America, a place where even visitors from Bosnia should fear to tread.

"Gunned Down Like Animals!" ran one British tabloid headline. "Shot Like a Dog," "Come to Sunny Florida and be Murdered for Absolutely Nothing," "Slaughter in the Sunshine" and "Plan Your Trip Like a Commando Raid" screamed others. Similarly, a Philadelphia Daily News headline blared: "Another foreign tourist is slain. And the Sunshine State becomes a STATE OF TERROR."

If they are talking about Miami I have no trouble believing those are current headlines.

However, I have gone to great length to provide citations for all my quotes. You didn't provide any. How is what you say on a website supposed to be more credible than what anyone else says - even quotes from books (which apparently you have some distinct distrust of). Maybe the cultural gap is part of the problem but Frommers, Fodors, and Zagats are highly respectable authorities in their field. Just about anything you read or hear anywhere should be taken with a grain of salt. You can only begin to discern a "truth" if you are open to receiving input from all angles and placing them in their proper context over time. We all know Fox News has one bias and that CNN has another bias, but that doesn't not mean nothing they say is true. Anyway, I think the cummulative knowledge of those three publications has to hold some validity.

As to tipping where you are from you obviously hold so dilligently to your position because of your experience. But what is your experience exactly. From what I can tell you don't believe you need to tip anybody anywhere in Europe; therefore you don't tip anyone. Simply because you are able to do so (not tip) apparently reinforces your opinion that it is in fact appropriate not to tip. However, that doesn't mean you haven't left plenty of angry servers in your wake. It just means you have left no tip with a clear conscience.

I could do the same thing here in the U.S. I could decide tomorrow that I will no longer tip anyone. And if I am the average consumer eating out only a couple times a week at a variety of places I will get away with it. I will probably rarely if ever run into the same server twice and no one will ever inform me that I not doing something I should. Managers don't chase people into the parking lot often over not leaving a tip (although I have seen it done). Eventually I start going on websites saying that people who tip are ignorant because I never tip and it never causes a problem and that since that is my experience it is more valid than what all these "books" and websites say on the matter.

[TLSnell1981]

Of course, tour books are biased. Many places comp the writers and some actually pay to be in the books. You obviously want to discount life experience, but there are many nice places with excellent fare that are not expensive.

I also thought the original point you were trying to make was how well the service staff should be paid because of the HUGE pricing difference between the states and across the pond. You were also making the point of the IPOD being 36 GBP. Unless it has changed...the tax is included in their prices....kind of like how the grat used to be included in the DDP.

[tloft]

Of course, tour books are biased. Many places comp the writers and some actually pay to be in the books. You obviously want to discount life experience, but there are many nice places with excellent fare that are not expensive.

I also thought the original point you were trying to make was how well the service staff should be paid because of the HUGE pricing difference between the states and across the pond. You were also making the point of the IPOD being 36 GBP. Unless it has changed...the tax is included in their prices....kind of like how the grat used to be included in the DDP.

I never disputed that they can be biased but taken as whole you can begin to gain useful information. If all three recommend a restaurant it is very unlikely to be disappointing - but even a five star restaurant can have a bad night. Fromers focuses on budget travel and is a great resource with fact based recommendations about price and very matter of fact reviews about the nature of accomodations. Even when not being directly influenced by free meals every writer has their own personal bias as to what they like or don't like. Read enough, however, and you can begin to discern whoevers opinions mirror your own. And, as to why I brought them up in the first place, they all acknowlege some form of tipping throughout Western Europe. Unlike a free meal biasing a reviewer they have no reason to say this unless it is true in their experiences (unless there is a european waiters union lobbying U.S. publications to trick ignorant American who continue to waste their time reading). Since nothing we are talking about is actually law it is still just opinions but I prefer the cummulative advice of hundreds of travel writers over two people on a disney forum.

I am not discounting life experience and yes I have no doubt that, just as in the U.S., there are hidden gems the world over that are affordable - I have no idea what that comment had to do with any of the previous discussion.

It was asked in this thread why we don't use a European, all inclusive style of pricing in our restaurants. This same sentiment has been echoed in several other threads. People in this and other threads have also been concerned that 18% is too high an auto gratuity and that auto gratuity/fixed pay reduces service quality. The only point I have tried to make is that the European system doesn't alleviate any of the latter problem because throughout most of Europe waiters do make a living wage, whether through service charges distributed much like gratuities here or in regular salaries and that as evidenced by actual prices the cost of dining out in these countries, ON AVERAGE, is substantially (way more the 15-20% we're asked to tip here) costlier than it is here. So, in this system, you are paying through the price of the meal for the service, but cannot diminish your tip when service suffers. AND, for those who seem to get so worked up about what percentages are really appropriate - even in supposedly service compris places - these same debates rage on as people continue to give (albeit smaller than 18%) extra gratuity.

I don't really know what your last point about the ipod is supposed to mean. It is a mail order site and I don't ever pay tax on my purchases in the states either, so it is apples to apples. Even if I did that doesn't do much to make up the difference. You quickly dismissed a price increase in excess of 100%as being mearly a matter of currency exchange. If this was the case it should carry over to other products as well. You also chose to ignore that your notion doesn't work in reverse - as in the example from Mexico.

Basically every example I give you essentially say "doesn't count" but then don't give any examples to actually refute them.

[TLSnell1981]

One last point about currency exchanges. An Apple 80 GB iPod video classic at Amazon.uk is 148.90 pound. The same iPod at Amazon.com (US) is $249.00. This exchanges to $285.43 in the UK and $249 in the US. This is a cost increase of $36.43 or a percentage difference of 18% the US price. Well, the US dollar is exactly 18% off of its average against the pound of the last 19 years. Weakness in the dollar does not fully explain the dramatic cost difference in dining out.

I was referring to the price difference of $36.43 is likely the VAT.....value added tax ....that is included in prices in the UK and Europe.

[tloft]

I was referring to the price difference of $36.43 is likely the VAT.....value added tax ....that is included in prices in the UK and Europe.

Well its tax included in both for this example. My point with this was that if currency exchange was the primary reason for restaurant dining being in excess of 100% more expensive than in the US then it should carry over to other goods - but it doesn't.

[TLSnell1981]

Why do you think the DDP is so loved by us :rotfl2: :rotfl2:
For what the DDLXP costs you can't have one decent diner in Holland let alone have breakfast and a counterservice to.:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I remember the days things were reversed.....oh those were the days! My daughter wants to be married in Italy, but with the exchange rate...don't think that's going to happen. Can't we compromise on this rate thing? Let the euro and the dollar be a "little" more equal? I haven't been over since the euro was $1.30.....I want to go back! Sorry I'm OT.

[sjaakie]

I remember the days things were reversed.....oh those were the days! My daughter wants to be married in Italy, but with the exchange rate...don't think that's going to happen. Can't we compromise on this rate thing? Let the euro and the dollar be a "little" more equal? I haven't been over since the euro was $1.30.....I want to go back! Sorry I'm OT.

You don't have to read books to know that the Dollar/ Euro difference is very bad for both our continents.
O sure in the short time view of tourist its great but this will be a huge problem in the future if it lasts.

Hope your daughter will have a wonderful wedding in Venice I suppose?

But now BOT and back to them poor waiters.
:offtopic: