Canadian Health Care System

[christiane]

For those of you who like to wander over to the Community Board, you might have seen a recent thread about universal health care in the US.

The anti-uhc faction on the thread keep pointing to Canada as a reason why the US should stay with the private system. Every so often an anecdote pops up that someone's Canadian friend/coworker/relative said that the Canadian system is awful and how lucky the Americans are.

So, I would love to hear what Canadians have to say about their health care...

[tribus121]

All though our health care system has some faults I would not trade it for the American system for a million Dollars

[brighteyes]

I second that!! :worship: I would not want to live in the US with the health care system the way it is. I work in a clinic and understand that our system is not perfect and the doctors I work for have some very real frustrations with the way things are run by our government here and now I understand why some doctors are frustrated.

That being said, I still think we are very lucky to have the healthcare system that we do. It is not perfect, but IMHO it is better. That is a biased statement however, because I really do not know much about their health system other than people who go to the hospital or doctor have to pay if they do not have benefits. I might have that wrong, but that is my understanding. It is also my understanding that there are many who do not have the luxury of benefits in the US.

Someone please enlighten me further if I am wrong.

Stephanie

[happydvcmember]

I agree i love our health care system and would not trade it for the world, i have been in the states and have talked to people and they all say we are lucky to have the system we do and i tell them its not perfect but its a better system than most. For people who say our system is horrible and would rather the American style well all i can say is ........... na this is a family board.

[drag n' fly]

I did post on that thread. A lot of posts are inaccurate unfortunately due to lack of knowledge on how uhc works.

[DearDaisyinDurham]

Maybe they should watch the new documentary "SickO".
Canadian health care rocks. It's not perfect - what is?
But it's coverage for all, in a land that's still free.

[Charleyann]

I have a child with a chronic condition.(two at that) There is no way we could have kept him alive. Infact, healthcare professional have stated that Canadian children with CF are living longer with CF in Canada then the US and it has to do with their care. They can't afford to get sick or pay for hospitalization and meds. They therefore don't get the treatment they need...

Our system has some faults, but we take care of us all and nobody goes without care!

Charleyann

[SandraC]

WHY I LOVE OUR CANADIAN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM

1. A daughter with THREE heart operations, uncountable procedures, tests, hospitalizations = $millions
2. A son with pneumonia at 2 months old....10 days in hospital.
3. Husband's surgery
4. Having my two babies
5. Father is quadruple bypass and heart value replacement.
6. Sister with heart value disease and replacement in the future.
7. AWESOME Family Doctors who care about my family and visit us in hospital when they don't have to since the Specialist take over while in hospital.

[tgropp]

If the Canadian health care system is so bad, why are Detroit, Port Huron and Buffalo residents abusing it with fraudulant health cards?

[SandraC]

Don't forget how inexpensive our Rx's are compared to the states. S

[SandraC]

People believe what they see/hear in a 17 second sound bite on CNN. You have to live it to appreciate it. Sandra

[dhluvsDisney]

As was said already, "it ain't perfect, but I wouldn't trade it for anything". As we get older too, we will even appreciate it even more. We don't have to worry if we have money to go and see the doc if something is bothering us. We don't have to worry about losing our house, savings, etc. if something happens. I am very grateful to not have to put a price tag on my health.

[Kurby]

i watched a 20/20 program on Happiness - they ranked all the countries based on a questionnaire they send out to hundreds of thousands of people in all kinds of countries.

based on the answers and their research they ranked Denmark as number 1 on the happy scale - and while the people there are cold 6 months out of the year (colder winders then here) and pay 65% of their income in taxes they have full medical coverage from cradle to grave (including meds), free schooling for as long as they want to go (includes night school courses but not sure if it includes special schools like law and medical or just preschool, high school and basic college)

Canada was ranked 7th and the US........23rd.

so do i like our health care - yes - could it be better of course.

personally i'd like to see all retired people have all their meds covered. (hell i'd like retired people not have to pay income tax on the pittance they receive on their pensions but that's another thread)

what i'd change - free basic dental care (it's great that full time workers receive coverage from basic to extensive depending on how big their company is but what about the part time workers who don't qualify or who's companies just don't pay for it) i think like going to the dr, basic dental coverage (check ups, cleanings and fillings) should be covered by our health care - it's all part of staying healthy don't ya think....

and while i am hardly ever sick i can see a day when i may be - when i had Cassandra we didn't have to pay for her birth (had to pay $45 for the ambulance though) while a mother who was american and her dh was canadian though her final immigration hadn't happened had to pay over $15000 out of pocket for the birth of their child

there's a whole bunch more i think should be covered by the government (not all health related) like free day care and maybe one day we will see real changes in the government on what they spend their millions on and not see it being abused by redecorating their offices every other year or taking expensive trips and dinners and claiming them on their expenses when they were vacations and dinner with the family (all of which has been reported in the past few years)

[lgaston]

I would not trade my Canadian Health Care System for the American's for nothing!!! Love what it is and nothing is perfect. But they way our system is everyone can benefit from it from babies to 120 years old (that's the max we're given);)

[jaanders]

It's not perfect. But is still very good. I just watched the Micheal Moore movie on US health care and have vowed to never move there. There is no way in Canada we leave a 30 something year old, at home with cancer, to die. We would try anything. Private insurance companies deciding on whether you get treatment. No thanks. I was very shocked with France/England health care. And could not believe Cuba's health care. All three's were excellant.

[wee-haggis]

Another Canadian Health System booster here :thumbsup2
We have a similar system to what they have in U.K. (in fact our system is styled like Britains National Health which was one of the first of its type).To even compare it to what they have in USA is unimaginable. I just heard on TV that there are 45,000,000 Americans with no Health Insurance.Thats a staggering number !
I feel sorry for the Americans because many are bamboozled into believing the Bush Buddies and the Fox News Friends when they say these "untruths" about Canada. As many have said in this thread.Its far from being perfect,but I'll gladly pay the higher taxes to have it . I am getting a bit concerned with these Public/Private Partnership hospitals that are being looked into.
The Medical communities and Drug companies in the USA have quite a stanglehold down there (I think a few politicians have had their palms crossed with silver;) )

[SandraC]

My uncle moved to Texas in the 70's. About 10 years ago, when he was 57 years old, he got cancer. He couldn't quit his job because he needed the health insurance for his cancer treatments. He died of cancer at 57....working like a dog to die.

Sandra

[iluvwesties]

personally i'd like to see all retired people have all their meds covered. (hell i'd like retired people not have to pay income tax on the pittance they receive on their pensions but that's another thread)

what i'd change - free basic dental care (it's great that full time workers receive coverage from basic to extensive depending on how big their company is but what about the part time workers who don't qualify or who's companies just don't pay for it) i think like going to the dr, basic dental coverage (check ups, cleanings and fillings) should be covered by our health care - it's all part of staying healthy don't ya think....



ITA :thumbsup2

I work in a dental office and I find it very hard telling someone who has no insurance what the cost of treatment will be for them (particularly elderly or poor people)
It's never cheap, as all Ontario Dentists charge the fee's set by the Ontario Dental Association.

Did you all know that a refugee to this country is given a voucher to get free dental treatment? (up to $400)

Yet a Canadian has to pay (unless they are on social assistance)

Dental care should be covered by OHIP - Mouth cancer can be detected by the dentist as well as other health problems.

I'll get off my soap box now.... ;)

iluvwesties (aka Carol) :wave:

[Rayner]

I don't post often but felt this was an important subject that is near and dear to my heart. I was diagnosed in Feb. 2005 with Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia. Within two weeks of my diagnosis I was into the Grand River Cancer Centre in Kitchener to see a Hemotology Oncologist. Since then I have been a frequent visitor to Grand River. I cannot say enough good things about my doctor, the oncology nurses and the wonderful care I have received there. As part of my treatment I receive monthly intervenous immune globulin treatments. It is my understanding that they are quite pricey but they are fully covered by OHIP. I belong to a CLL discussion forum and many of the Americans on the discussion board talk about having to fight with their insurance carriers to receive these same treatments. It makes me feel blessed to live here. There is no doubt out health care system can be improved but I am so glad that we have it.

[christiane]

Thank you so, so much everyone for taking the time to post your replies. Of the 18 replies so far, everyone was in favour.

The American lobbyists against uhc are a powerful group and they seem to have brainwashed many Americans into thinking that Canada is an evil, evil nation. Such socialists!!

I truly wonder why Americans will not accept uhc as the preferred system. They keep saying uhc isn't perfect...but what is in life?? An imperfect system that helps all of its citizens (Canada) is better than an imperfect one that only helps 75% of its citizens (US).

PS: I hope everyone who is suffering/has suffered illness is recovering well.

[ferris198]

I have followed and posted on the thread on the community board.
I take great comfort in knowing that if someone I care about needs serious medical care, it is taken care of and I do not need to worry about it financially.
Reading about families of children living with life threatening illnesses, and having to worry about raising funds for their care is terrible.

[christiane]

I have followed and posted on the thread on the community board.
I take great comfort in knowing that if someone I care about needs serious medical care, it is taken care of and I do not need to worry about it financially.
Reading about families of children living with life threatening illnesses, and having to worry about raising funds for their care is terrible.

You were definitely trying your best over there on the community board, ferris198.

To me, what you say about knowing that everyone is taken care of, is what it is all about. So many Americans on that thread seem to be saying "Well, I'm covered, I don't want to lose what I've got in order to help others."

And that is a real shame.

[brighteyes]

Anyone seen the movie John Q with Denzel Washington? Heartbreaking...:sad2: :sad:

Stephanie

[ferris198]

I tried.
I just got so sick and tired of the comments and remarks from people who have no idea how it works here.
Listening to the "stories" of Bobby's cousin, three times removed, knows someone who knows someone who said, etc, etc. I had had enough.
And yes, John Q was an excellent example of why I am glad to live here.

[minnie56]

I posted on that thread too..was told that because 'others pretty much' pay higher taxes than me (???) I should be appreciative I have health coverage? WTH? Nobody has handed anything to me that I haven't put in for myself!

Pretty typical US thread that pops up from time to time..

I have lived State-side..trust me...we have it WONDERFUL compared to what they have, or do not have?

No complaints here...

[christiane]

Anyone seen the movie John Q with Denzel Washington? Heartbreaking...:sad2: :sad: Stephanie

No. What's it about?

I still haven't been able to bring myself to watch Sicko...but I hope to one day.

[christiane]

I posted on that thread too..was told that because 'others pretty much' pay higher taxes than me (???) I should be appreciative I have health coverage? WTH? Nobody has handed anything to me that I haven't put in for myself!

I saw you there, too minnie56. Your points were good ones and I didn't get what the replying poster meant about you getting a free ride...it didn't make any sense based on what you said in your posts.

But I think many of the posters there aren't really interested in discussion. They are just there to spout off their ideas.

Well, except maybe for ducklite. You've got to love her point by point rebuttals.

[minnie56]

I attribute much of it to ignorance. I admit, I sure do not know all the facts..but it always seems that we and our system get ripped apart when they are complaining about their own? I don't get it?:confused3

It isn't perfect as has been stated MANY times over, but I sure am happy it's there for me and mine are I am sure are you!

[brighteyes]

No. What's it about?

I still haven't been able to bring myself to watch Sicko...but I hope to one day.

Well it's been a while because it is such a tear jerker. A family with very very sick son who needs a heart transplant I believe and his work benefits are not enough to cover him for the hospital bills and the cost of the transplant. Very shocking and a very very sad movie and based on a true story. That's not all but the jist.

Stephanie

[damo]

Every few months, a health care thread pops up on the community board. It inevitably ends up bashing the Canadian system. Some responses get so ridiculous that there is no sense getting riled up about it.

[morgy827]

There are faults to every system but I know that if I were living 2 hrs south (in the US instead of Canada) I would be hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt right now.
My husband owns his own business with no heath insurance. This summer he fell ill requiring a serious thoracic surgery requiring a chest tube, a one week hospital stay, 1 month of at home nursing with IV antibiotics at home and dressing changes. He also required a second surgery in December due to complications of the first surgery. I know that, because of the fact that my husband is diabetic. most American companies would'nt give him health insurance but because he lives in Canada he was automatically eligible for my health insurance when we got married. No questions asked. Also, even before he had health insurance he was still covered under the national plan and received nearly everything for free...just a nominal fee for antibiotics. Maybe we need to wait in waiting rooms a little longer, maybe we need to wait a little longer for tests but everyone has a right to the same health care here. No matter what your job or age. If we lived in the US there is no way we would be able to afford to go on our fabulous Disney honeymoon in April because we would be paying our medical bills. I am very thankful that I am a Canadian right now.

[starrzone]

This is why I love our health care system:

-We take care of our people. There is no "Well, WE have insurance, so who cares about anyone else?", or "Why should I have to pay for someone else's insurance?". Our country cares about its people.

-I will never have to worry about losing my home/car/livelihood because I have been diagnosed with a serious illness. I won't have to go into debt to save my life should I become sick.

-For those of you who have seen "Sicko"; remember the part where the American man who cut off a couple of his fingers in an accident had to chose which one he wanted replaced because his insurance would only pay for one to be reattached? And then they interviewed a Canadian guy who went through the same thing, but even more of his fingers had been cut off? And he got them ALL reattached for FREE?

There is a myriad of arguments against universal health care; the taxpayers are supporting illegals, why should I be forced to pay for those who laze around and do nothing, everyone should take care of themselves...well, I like to think that a country is viewed by the way it treats its people. No system is perfect, but I'll take a FREE imperfect system like ours over a system that throws dying people out on the street and that refuses to treat people unless they can show proof that they can pay.

And that's what I think!;)

[ferris198]

I have been following the life of a little boy named Julian Avery. I found out about hin through a blog that I sometimes read. He story is/was so sad as that at the age of 3 he was diagnosed with a brain tumour. He has 3 other brothers, who loved him dearly. He lived in Texas, and the point of this is, that when his treatment ended, and he was sent home to die with his family, he was given hospice for a few days, but then it was taken away, leaving his parents to be the primary care givers and nurses for a child who is dying as well as explaining to the rest of the family what is going on.
In the end hospice was reinstated for the family, but a mother should not have to be counting her child's breath before that happens.

[calliemom]

O.K. so I couldn't just read the posting here, I had to put a couple of my most recent personal experiences on this threat just to prove that our system is great.
January 1st, 2006 10:30am,broke 3 bones in my ankle....by noon I was in emergency,by 3:30p.m. same day I am in surgery to have ankle put back together by a Ortho Surgeon...New Years Day no less.
January 1st,2007 I request to have the metal hardware removed, Febuary 2007 I have the surgery to remove hardware.
If this is not incredibly fast treatment, I certainly do not know what is.

January 17th 2008 Had yearly physical with my family doctor of 15years. She spends 45 minutes with me and is very patient with my list of questions. I ask to have a ultra sound as I believe I may have fibroids....Book appt. for ultrasound for Monday January 21st at 11:30, by today January 22nd I have a call from my family doctors office to advise on the results.

I think as with anything you need to be educated and smart about the time you spend with medical personnel. They are busy people but if you have your questions ready they will help. No our medical system is not perfect! But tell me what system is and I will sign up for it. We as Canadian have the right to medical care paid for by our tax dollars.

My own personal experience over the last couple of years has been incredible, and I feel very blessed to live in a country that enables all its citizens to have "free" health care regardless of your economic status.

[drag n' fly]

Every few months, a health care thread pops up on the community board. It inevitably ends up bashing the Canadian system. Some responses get so ridiculous that there is no sense getting riled up about it.



I agree very uninformed resposes. Notice no one south of the border gave reference to Sicko? Honestly I know most Americans are great but some of those responses are what gives Americans a bad name eg: arrogant, self absorbed and would literally walk over their dead Mother to save themselves. A little harsh I know but giving uninformed opinions is ignorant and so annoying!

[Kurby]

I truly wonder why Americans will not accept uhc as the preferred system. They keep saying uhc isn't perfect...but what is in life?? An imperfect system that helps all of its citizens (Canada) is better than an imperfect one that only helps 75% of its citizens (US).

it's called having the big business and half the media in your back pocket.

when your best friend is the president you can pretty much ask and get anything.

Hurricane hit your state - not friends with the prez too bad so sad
hurricane hits your state and your best friend is the prez you get aid the next day.

tell me again what's happening in New Orleans vs Texas? who's living where?

i'm not 100% but i've got a pretty good guess that the lobbyists for the medical ins companies have bush on their speed dial. can you say "lunch"

i listen to Fox and Friends in the morning and Sheppard Something in the afternoon on my cell phone (it's either that or treehouse - not much to choose from yet) and although they claim they are "fair and balanced" they are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO republican it's not even funny.

the continually bash the democratic and put bush high on a pedestal if he fell he'd prob die from the height.

it's pretty bad at times when they talk about being fair and balanced but hardly let the democratic supporter talk without being called stupid or having no sense.

bush can do no wrong and if he says private health care then they go on the "news" saying it's the best thing since sliced bread.

and we all thought Tom Cruise was in a cult...... media has a lot of americans brainwashed. i know i know i'm going to get slammed for this but oh well - i'm not saying ALL americans. there are very educated ones who know when they are being given a snow job. they know the world doesn't revolve around them, they know that it doesn't snow in canada 365 days a year.... but i'm sure they also have health care.

the ones who don't have it aren't in positions where they are making 100k a year, they are living pay cheque to pay cheque. they don't vacation in europe or the islands, they don't ski at vale or the Rockies, the don't drive Bentley's and they certainly can't afford to get sick for too long.

[Yzma and Kronk]

I'm not here to debate because this is a very hot issue, but I will give my opinion. (I have not read the thread on the debate board)

There are many positive experiences posted here with the Canadian system, but I bet we could come up with many negative experiences too. And I've heard many from family and friends coming from a small town complete with Doctor shortages, closing of hospitals and clinics and limited access to care. There are many positives in the US, but positive experiences aren't as news worthy.

I am Canadian and lived in the US for four years. If I had to chose, I would take the US system in a minute.

From what I've experienced (and I've had some great medical experiences in Canada) the US seems to be practicing preventative medicine while we can only keep up with reactive medicine. It's ridiculous that we have to wait in clinics, emergency rooms, for elective surgery, get procedures like MRI's, to see a specialist, etc. when we have a UHC system. Not everyone waits, but a great majority do. And we pay a lot for this poor service. There are people who don't have access in the US, but there are people here who don't have access either.

Please understand that for the US it's a very complex issue. Not only is UHC about providing health care, but it's about government intervention, trusting something as important as your own health to someone other than you, having accessibility to affordable Health Insurance, and who is going to pay for it. This is how American's think. They have an inherent distrust for big government. Hence all the Republican vs. Democrat debate. Don't think for a minute that the Democrat’s aren't using this issue just to get votes. And the Republicans too.

We had many positive experiences with day to day health care in the U.S. We did crunch the numbers and the amount of money DH was paying up front and through his work in the US was in fact less that the taxed amount that we pay here in Canada. Always remember, the Canadian system is not "free". And the big difference is the "service" was much much better in the U.S. I knew I could get looked at immediately by our Doctor's in the US. Here, I'm not so sure. An X-ray was taken and read within 5 minutes. Can that be done here?? Never experienced it!

Another problem with UHC in the US is population base. We have 35 million people. The other small countries promoted as "ideal" UHC systems are small countries. The US has over 300 million people, providing UHC for that many would severely deteriorate their current system and would therefore create massive wait times, inefficiences and impersonal service. Sound familiar?

Remember, out of the 45M in the US that supposedly don't have Health care or insurance, many chose not to (that can afford to) That is their choice in a system that doesn't provide UHC. They don't budget the cost into their daily living expenses for various reasons.

Our system is far from perfect and I'm sure we all agree on that. But, our negatives are what the US media reports. It is not appropriate to bash another system, but fear creates fear.

I don't think the US fix is UHC. Their problem is with access to affordable health insurance, and plans that suit their particular situations, especially for people who normally could not afford it.

The reason why a lot of people didn't give any reference to "Sicko" is because there are also two sides to Michael Moore. I'll leave it at that.

Get ready for a very interesting political season in the US with health care being very much the hot topic!!!

[morgy827]

No the heath care system is not "free" in Canada and maybe we do pay for it in the long run. But, as a nurse, I can say that I have seen the benefits of the Canadian style of health care in both my professional and personal life. I would like to hear if nurses in the US would sing the praises of their health care system like Canadian nurses do.

It's also interesting that every time a Sicko is brought up an American has to point out that Michael Moore has "two sides." There is a general fear of flaws and failure in the US and the fact that someone is out there trying to fix the most flawed parts of the American system should spark commendations for what he is doing NOT condemnation.

[christiane]

There are many positive experiences posted here with the Canadian system, but I bet we could come up with many negative experiences too. And I've heard many from family and friends coming from a small town complete with Doctor shortages, closing of hospitals and clinics and limited access to care. There are many positives in the US, but positive experiences aren't as news worthy.

I am Canadian and lived in the US for four years. If I had to chose, I would take the US system in a minute.

From what I've experienced (and I've had some great medical experiences in Canada) the US seems to be practicing preventative medicine while we can only keep up with reactive medicine. It's ridiculous that we have to wait in clinics, emergency rooms, for elective surgery, get procedures like MRI's, to see a specialist, etc. when we have a UHC system. Not everyone waits, but a great majority do. And we pay a lot for this poor service. There are people who don't have access in the US, but there are people here who don't have access either.


I too, have lived in both countries. And I feel just the opposite.

I just want to make 2 points:

1) I'm not sure why you think Americans focus on preventive care and Canadians don't. Sorry to offend, but this is a ridiculous statement. If preventive medicine is so wonderful in the US, there wouldn't be an epidemic beyond proportion of preventive diseases. Look around at your fellow Americans next time you are visiting there. Or just watch a little Tv. Adult onset diabetes, orthopedic diseases, heart disease, cancer ---all could be considered to have preventive components. Yet, the lifestyle choices made by many Americans lead to their development. Prenatal care is another preventive issue. The US has one of the lowest rates of prenatal care among developed nations. And this is reflected in higher morbidity & mortality neonatal rates than is expected of such a "rich" nation.
These are just 2 examples. If you want more, just let me know.

2) An important point many Americans is missing is this: Canadians seem truly happy to provide health care to everyone. Not just those who are fortunate to have employee sponsored plans. Saying there are Canadians who do not have access to healthcare is absolutely untrue. Even new residents to Canada qualify after 3 months of residency.

When I lived in the US, the corporation I worked for had excellent health care coverage for the professional staff which was provided as part of our overall compensation. We did not have further deductions on our gross income. However, the non-professional staff had to pay out of pocket for the same coverage, at a cost of several hundred dollars a month. The staff were earning $8-10/hr while I was compensated extremely well and could have afforded my own premiums if necessary. This situation made me feel terribly uncomfortable because I knew most of the staff were going without health care coverage because they couldn't afford it.

Canadians know no one will go without health care based on their ability to pay. And that is priceless.

[wee-haggis]

I too, have lived in both countries. And I feel just the opposite.

I just want to make 2 points:

1) I'm not sure why you think Americans focus on preventive care and Canadians don't. Sorry to offend, but this is a ridiculous statement. If preventive medicine is so wonderful in the US, there wouldn't be an epidemic beyond proportion of preventive diseases. Look around at your fellow Americans next time you are visiting there. Or just watch a little Tv. Adult onset diabetes, orthopedic diseases, heart disease, cancer ---all could be considered to have preventive components. Yet, the lifestyle choices made by many Americans lead to their development. Prenatal care is another preventive issue. The US has one of the lowest rates of prenatal care among developed nations. And this is reflected in higher morbidity & mortality neonatal rates than is expected of such a "rich" nation.
These are just 2 examples. If you want more, just let me know.

2) An important point many Americans is missing is this: Canadians seem truly happy to provide health care to everyone. Not just those who are fortunate to have employee sponsored plans. Saying there are Canadians who do not have access to healthcare is absolutely untrue. Even new residents to Canada qualify after 3 months of residency.

When I lived in the US, the corporation I worked for had excellent health care coverage for the professional staff which was provided as part of our overall compensation. We did not have further deductions on our gross income. However, the non-professional staff had to pay out of pocket for the same coverage, at a cost of several hundred dollars a month. The staff were earning $8-10/hr while I was compensated extremely well and could have afforded my own premiums if necessary. This situation made me feel terribly uncomfortable because I knew most of the staff were going without health care coverage because they couldn't afford it.

Canadians know no one will go without health care based on their ability to pay. And that is priceless.

Well said !:thumbsup2

I'm afraid the "I'm All Right Jack" attitude is way too prevalent in the U.S.
There has to be more compassion when it comes to health care for the less fortunate.
I think many Americans have their noses slightly out of joint (over this debate)because in a rich,successful country like theirs, to have a Health care sytem that is so uncaring towards the less fortunate is an embarssment and they therefore automatically go on the defence (thus the embelished..and perhaps non existant stories of their friends,friend or second cousin in Canada that has this "awful" health care system).
The USA is a teriffic country and I love it in so many different ways......but the Health Care system just isn't good enough.

[minnie56]

Agreed. Well said.
It's a sin to see the Billions spent in other areas, ie: WARS! When their very own are in need..look at New Orleans alone. Disgusting all this time after..for shame. Need to put their $$ where their mouths are!

[drag n' fly]

Agreed. Well said.
It's a sin to see the Billions spent in other areas, ie: WARS! When their very own are in need..look at New Orleans alone. Disgusting all this time after..for shame. Need to put their $$ where their mouths are!



:thumbsup2 Finally a thread with some substance to it!

[christiane]

Just wait until ducklite finds this thread!! The post numbers will double!!:rotfl:

[drag n' fly]

I too, have lived in both countries. And I feel just the opposite.

I just want to make 2 points:

1) I'm not sure why you think Americans focus on preventive care and Canadians don't. Sorry to offend, but this is a ridiculous statement. If preventive medicine is so wonderful in the US, there wouldn't be an epidemic beyond proportion of preventive diseases. Look around at your fellow Americans next time you are visiting there. Or just watch a little Tv. Adult onset diabetes, orthopedic diseases, heart disease, cancer ---all could be considered to have preventive components. Yet, the lifestyle choices made by many Americans lead to their development. Prenatal care is another preventive issue. The US has one of the lowest rates of prenatal care among developed nations. And this is reflected in higher morbidity & mortality neonatal rates than is expected of such a "rich" nation.
These are just 2 examples. If you want more, just let me know.

2) An important point many Americans is missing is this: Canadians seem truly happy to provide health care to everyone. Not just those who are fortunate to have employee sponsored plans. Saying there are Canadians who do not have access to healthcare is absolutely untrue. Even new residents to Canada qualify after 3 months of residency.

When I lived in the US, the corporation I worked for had excellent health care coverage for the professional staff which was provided as part of our overall compensation. We did not have further deductions on our gross income. However, the non-professional staff had to pay out of pocket for the same coverage, at a cost of several hundred dollars a month. The staff were earning $8-10/hr while I was compensated extremely well and could have afforded my own premiums if necessary. This situation made me feel terribly uncomfortable because I knew most of the staff were going without health care coverage because they couldn't afford it.

Canadians know no one will go without health care based on their ability to pay. And that is priceless.



Exactly! Uhc has provided Canadians the opportunity to have the best health possible. People do not have to wait to go to the doctor until they can afford it they go sooner therefore costing the system less money in the end. It appears we are only hearing from Americans who can afford the health insurance. Of course it works perfectly for them...they can afford it...no worries! What about the poor? They have public health but it is so poorly run in the US it truly is a waste of taxpayers money. Let's hear from a family in the US with no insurance because they cannot afford it. I am sure you will hear a much different but commonly heard story about US health.

[christiane]

While I would love to see uhc in the US, I secretly wonder how on earth they would implement it.

Even if they held a vote tomorrow & every single person voted to accept it, the insurance companies are so powerful & entrenched in American government, the legal battles would go on for years.

The other thing is the sheer number of people in the US, 10x Canada's. To make it manageable, I suppose it would be state run. Like in Canada it is provincial with federal transfer payments. In that case, though, you have one state, California whose population is equal to the whole of Canada.

Can anyone tell me what happened in Canada when uhc was finalized. 1966, I think someone said. What were Canadians doing for health care coverage before then? And how did the government actually bring it about?

[minnie56]

[QUOTE=christiane;22737192]Just wait until ducklite finds this thread!! The post numbers will double!!:rotfl:[/QUOTE

I know:ssst:
I am waiting...

I thought as I went out..to take my DD21 to the Dr's of all places...

You know, we for the most part seem pretty happy with what we have. And we all have the same. No one is treated any differently.

She seems happy with what she has, but she does not have the same as all Americans have? She is fortunate..most are not. She talks a good talk, but there are way too many stories that do not!

[bababear_50]

Canadian Health Care System -PRICELESS --wouldn't trade it for millions .
Thank my good fortune that I live in this Country all the time.

I just can't imagine trying to decide if my child was sick enough to warrant going to the doctors or having to have the money to pay for it,,,UHC is one of the greatest services we have as Canadians.
I won't bash the US health care system but do feel sorry for all of them that do not have Health Care avaliable to them.

Hugs Mel

[ferris198]

I would like to think that ducklite is too busy working paying off her insurance premiums to post here, although she does seem to be pretty busy on the other board.
I wonder, of her employer, who is paying the premium is aware of the time she spends on-line ?

[Kurby]

who is this duck person you guys are talking about. i'd love to read some of her posts

[christiane]

I would like to think that ducklite is too busy working paying off her insurance premiums to post here, although she does seem to be pretty busy on the other board.
I wonder, of her employer, who is paying the premium is aware of the time she spends on-line ?

Ok...ferris198...I wonder if there is a way you could ask that on the other thread without it being considered a personal attack??

Self-righteousness is not a trait I personally admire and it is on full display in that thread. :upsidedow

Kurby...ducklite is a frequent poster on the regular community boards. Just wander over there and it won't take long to find her.

[minnie56]

She is posting over on the Community Board on a Thread about this same topic. I am throwing away my Encyclopedia's because SHE knows everything!:lmao:

Anyone watching 'Deal or No Deal' ? The Contestant is playing to try to make enough money to buy her children Medical Insurance! I rest my case...

[ferris198]

I couldn't resist and counted her posts for today, she is up to 32 or so.
I will ask.
Hang on tight, I am sure there will be some backlash !

[PhotobearSam]

Sure our system has flaws. If you need knee surgery, you wait. You need treatment for a heart attack, you don't wait.

In the last year, My Mom had colon cancer diagnosed, had her surgery, and is now cancer free (knock on wood), Dad had a triple Bypass, DH had a knee replaced and stomach surgery, and I had my gallbladder removed.

At no time during all of this, did I have to stay up nights wondering if we could afford the hospital bills, nor did I fight insurance companies to allow these procedures and I met plenty of poor people in the hospital that were there right next to my very well off parents.

How is this a bad thing?

They say we pay more in taxes? Do we? I met so many people in the US when I was there for a month who said how they had to have a part time job as well as a full time one just to pay there insurance. I don't know a lot of people here with more than one job unless they are super hyper and really want to make a lot of cash. (I know that some people here still have to have 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet. I was just saying it was a lot more down in Florida)

If they all paid that money they give to insurance companies into taxes instead, would it not be more equitable? Do poor people ever get knee replacements if they don't have insurance?

Here, if you are sick, you go to the hospital or doctor, there, they seem to try to decide if it's worth it before they go. They put off going because it will cost too much, is an HMO doctor available? Will they need to co-pay?



Now, DH needs a new knee again (the first surgery had complications and they were not his or the surgeons fault) but his surgeon is now in the US making more money...So off to find a new surgeon, we just saw one this week. Total wait, 1 1/2 months. Not bad.

We met a couple at WDW who asked DH how much his knee surgery cost. They would not believe us when we said We don't know. They kept at us. We had to explain that we never see a bill, we don't have to fill out insurance forms and we leave the hospital only worrying about when we can go back to work...He was floored. They asked us questions on our health care for 30 minutes.

If we just paid our doctors more, we maybe could keep them but that is another story.

I had a plan to stop that for a while. Each person in medical school should be eligible for a grant each year that they don't have to pay back but in exchange for that grant, they have to pledge to stay in Canada for one year...The longer they pledge, the more $ they could get...maybe I am naive...but that was just a thought.

Now, I am not saying that our health care is perfect, I am not saying we don't pay a lot in taxes for it...but to me, it's all worth it.

I would do anything to keep our health care...I hope it is here forever and just improves. We as Canadians believe that EVERYONE deserve health care, and I am proud of that.

I hope this does not start a huge debate but I needed to say these things.

Also, I want to thank publicly all the Doctors, nurses, anaesthesiologists, x-ray techs, food service and cleaning crews that make it all possible at all our hospitals. I am grateful that you are there, working so hard. I have both my parents now because of you all...I owe my parents lives to the doctors who saved them and I thank them for their hard work.

God Bless the Healers in our midst...

[minnie56]

I couldn't resist and counted her posts for today, she is up to 32 or so.
I will ask.
Hang on tight, I am sure there will be some backlash !

Good Job she's got there with that fabulous Insurance plan that allows her to post here all day!

[PhotobearSam]

Another thing...A lot of People in the US think they have great health insurance until they need it. Then they sometimes have to fight for care and are told no, you are not covered.

I much prefer that my doctor decides what treatments I need instead of a pencil pusher behind a desk at an insurance company when his/her job is to find ways to deny coverage to save the company $$$.

I know, if my doc wants me to have a certain test or procedure, I WILL GET IT and i won't have to wonder IF my insurance will cover it or not.

I sleep well at night knowing this.:thumbsup2


PS...Ever wonder why shows like General Hospital have several story lines about people with no med coverage??? It's because people can relate to it. How about the movie Last Holiday? Queen Latifah's character Georgia is told that "THAT" surgery is not covered by her insurance and it would cost 100,000 if she paid by herself...I see it a lot on American TV but you hardly see "We waited forever" on a Canadian show...Wonder why??? Cause it's better here...It just is.

[taylor1293]

Hope you all don't mind if I join this thread as I am posting in the other thread.

I’m the one who pays almost $900 a month for insurance, but can’t afford to use it because it is so crappy, lol!

I've been on these boards for years and Ducklite has always been, and will always be self-righteous in her posts. Many view her in that light. It’s sad, as she seems like an intelligent and otherwise decent person. But she views herself as always right and all those who oppose her are always wrong. And she can never just state her opinions, she has to belittle those who disagree with her.






Ok...ferris198...I wonder if there is a way you could ask that on the other thread without it being considered a personal attack??

Self-righteousness is not a trait I personally admire and it is on full display in that thread. :upsidedow

Kurby...ducklite is a frequent poster on the regular community boards. Just wander over there and it won't take long to find her.

[christiane]

In the last year, My Mom had colon cancer diagnosed, had her surgery, and is now cancer free (knock on wood), Dad had a triple Bypass, DH had a knee replaced and stomach surgery, and I had my gallbladder removed.

PhotobearSam...I hope that everyone will stay well. That is a lot for one family to cope with. :grouphug: to you and your family.

Canadians are very fortunate people to just be able to focus on getting well and not worry about going bankrupt or losing their house when they are the least able to cope.

[christiane]

Hope you all don't mind if I join this thread as I am posting in the other thread.

Teresa, welcome to the thread!!:)

I’m the one who pays almost $900 a month for insurance, but can’t afford to use it because it is so crappy, lol!

I have a few questions for you if you don't mind. I have lived in the US a few times with employer-provided health coverage & have fortunately not needed to use it. I was wondering, exactly what you get for your $900. I was told I had excellent coverage, when I lived down there, but what does that mean nowadays? And what makes yours crappy? Do youget unlimited care for any illness or accident? How much input does your insurer have in your care?


I've been on these boards for years and Ducklite has always been, and will always be self-righteous in her posts. Many view her in that light. It’s sad, as she seems like an intelligent and otherwise decent person. But she views herself as always right and all those who oppose her are always wrong. And she can never just state her opinions, she has to belittle those who disagree with her.

I find this to be a true statement. I would add this --definitely case of I've got mine...to heck with you. But she is really the only one on the thread against UHC who at the same time acknowledges that she would like to see all Americans have some kind of coverage --she just doesn't want to help pay for it.

[christiane]

Anyone watching 'Deal or No Deal' ? The Contestant is playing to try to make enough money to buy her children Medical Insurance! I rest my case...

That is incredibly sad that she would have to do this. Game shows should be for winning a trip to Disney World, not for buying health insurance for children. :eek:

Did she say why she didn't have insurance? Did she win some money?

[DearDaisyinDurham]

I've lived in both countries and even been in the US military, and ask me which country's health care is preferred

Canada all the way, where everyone is covered. I won't say anything negative or nasty but I've fought for freedom and CANADA is a land of true free speech and health coverage for all.

[taylor1293]

Teresa, welcome to the thread!!:)

Thanks :)


I have a few questions for you if you don't mind. I have lived in the US a few times with employer-provided health coverage & have fortunately not needed to use it. I was wondering, exactly what you get for your $900. I was told I had excellent coverage, when I lived down there, but what does that mean nowadays? And what makes yours crappy? Do youget unlimited care for any illness or accident? How much input does your insurer have in your care?

I don't mind at all :). I would have to look at my policy, but from memory, this is what my family of 4 gets.

$25 doctor visit copay

$75 urgent care (after hours care)

$200 ER visit. This is base cost. If admitted from the ER, I believe then it pays 80% and I pay 20%. Until I reach my $1,500 deductible. Then I think it may pay 100% after. Maybe?

Each of us have a $1,500 deductible (although, there is a total family maximum deductible, I'm pretty sure it's around $4,500).

After the deductible is met, then I believe they pay 80% and we pay 20% until the out of pocket maximum is met. Then they pay 100%.

There is both an individual maxiumum out of pocket and family maximum out of pocket. I'd have to look to see what those are.

I think the lifetime maxium of the policy is either 1 or 2 million, that is pretty standard for most insurance policies here.


On a more personal note, I need to get a CT scan, no co-pay applies towards this type of service. I would have to pay for 100% of it. I have not used my insurance this year, therefore, have not applied anything towards the deductible. The only benefit of my insurance, in this case, is that medical facilities and insurance companies work out "deals" that the medical facility will only charge X amount of dollars for something. So, if I were uninsured, and walked in off the street, I would have to pay the (throwing out numbers here) $1,200 fee, but having insurance means they are only allowed to charge me $600. How lucky am I :headache:, lol




I find this to be a true statement. I would add this --definitely case of I've got mine...to heck with you. But she is really the only one on the thread against UHC who at the same time acknowledges that she would like to see all Americans have some kind of coverage --she just doesn't want to help pay for it.


Doesn't make a whole lot of sense does it?

[Yzma and Kronk]

So as not to stir up the pot even more....

I was giving a different perspective because I have experienced both.

I guess what I was trying to say is I liked both systems and I disliked both systems for totally different reasons. Based on my experience, I preferred what we had in the U.S.

To clarify what I meant by "preventative" vs. "reactive", I was speaking from my limited experience, not necessarily the big picture which encompasses obesity, smoking, etc. What I found in Canada were my doctors were reacting to current medical situations and didn't necessarily have the time or resources to access me for future concerns. In the US we received much more preventative screening such as earlier testing, wellness appointments, etc. along with the current issue. Plus, I will admit I was always treated much better. But in the US, the medical system is a money making business and I was a customer. In Canada we are consumers, which is different. Not bad, just different.

Even though this has become a spirited discussion, IMO the two systems just can't be compared.

As someone pointed out....we are happy with what we have, and she is happy with what she has. I agree, and to add to it - most Americans are probably happy with what they have.

However, I do not agree with this statement:

She is fortunate..most are not.

Yes, she is fortunate.....SOME are not.

[Csaks]

Just came back from the community board and am not too bad for wear. Some of those folks are nasty. Ducklite is something else 35,000, post and still writing now. She had not replied to me yet??
The numbers rolling around there are amazing 1000 to 3000 a MONTH for some people to get care WOW. I'd be screwed. The kind of house you could buy with that cash, just imagine.

[Yzma and Kronk]

To add (as I just saw Taylor's post...)

The fix in the US is access to affordable insurance. People need to be able to choose the plan that is affordable and will suit their situation.

This is where (dare I say it....) the US government should intervene and impose regulations on Insurance companies.

Much like our government does with Pharmaceutical companies, hence cheaper drugs here.

However, I'm not going to post that over on the CB

Why?

I cannot imagine the uproar that would cause!

;)

popcorn::

[Csaks]

She replied, wow no changing her mind. What she needs is to lose her job and the hubby lose his and I bet she would be the first one screaming for help with her medical care.

[ducklite]

I would like to think that ducklite is too busy working paying off her insurance premiums to post here, although she does seem to be pretty busy on the other board.
I wonder, of her employer, who is paying the premium is aware of the time she spends on-line ?

My employer doesn't pay my premium, I don't have my coverage through the company I work for. If you've got something to say, have the courage to say it to my face.

[ducklite]

She replied, wow no changing her mind. What she needs is to lose her job and the hubby lose his and I bet she would be the first one screaming for help with her medical care.

You are wrong. I'd use my savings to buy a private plan.

[angwill]

Hi all I am the second American to find this thread. It is really nice to hear from Canadians how they feel about their UHC.

Are there malpractic lawsuits in Canada that can be filed against hospitals and their workers?

One thing in the USA is that lawyers, insurance companies, and doctors are big financial supporters of politicians. I did read an article recently that the biggest organization that protested UHC back when the Clintons were in office and trying to reform our health care have now changed their tunes because the uninsured our draining our economy more than they realized back then.

I have been researching UHC because I like to make sure I am informed and not just believe rumors or opinions. It is the people that live it that can give the best info so thanks for this thread. There has been talk by the political candidates here in the US about UHC as a platform to run on for the presidency so there have been rumor emails going around. If you go to snopes dot com and put in Canadian health care you will see one of them. The website is a site that researches email rumors and tells truths about them. It is and interesting read.

Some Americans are very touchy about certain things like UHC and believe what they hear or worry about how it will effect them personally vs everyone as a whole in our country. Sadly, the people who do not have health care are already taxing our system here when they can not pay their bills and have to file bancrupcy or go on assistance so the hospital gets something for their care. Honestly, some of our people with higher incomes in the states pay very near if not the same as some of the Canadian providences (SP) but don't have UHC and that is explained on snopes. IMHO, no matter what the issue or where you live it is lack of understanding of the issue that causes the strongest opinions one way or the other.

Now for my situation: DH and I own our own company and sadly only my DH qualifies for private health care. I have been denied because of tests I had years ago that detected anti nuclear anti bodies in my blood and it doesn't matter that I have no negative health problems due to it. The private insurance companys want to make money and are not willing to chance that someday I might get ill from it and they might lose money even though rates go up each year depending on how much your health care costs them. I will also note that when I worked for a big company with wonderful health insurance back when they were talking about health care reform in the US I was all for it because IMO nobody should have to worry about their health or the health of their loved ones. Yes, there were times I had to fight the insurance company, who took the money from my paycheck, to cover things they should have covered. Then there was the fight when the doctor put the wrong procedure code on the bill. That was just a good reason for the insurance company not to have to pay. Too bad the majority of companies in my area can not afford health care for their employees any longer either.

I am sure you are aware of the obesity rate in the US? Well one of our biggest private health care companies in the US Blue Cross/Blue shield will not give insurance to overweight people and they give you that information along with all the other health issues they will not insure in the packet they send you when you ask for an application. So essentially anyone who is overweight can not get private health insurance here. The sad thing is that if I get seriously ill and were to die my DH would be stuck with my bills and would lose everything as well as me as his wife. Even sadder is that if I got ill I could divorce him to get medical assistance and tax our country instead of him. That's just warped in my opinion.

Anyway, thanks for the 1st hand experiences and for reading my rambling opinions.

[DearDaisyinDurham]

And this is where I want US healthcare to head? I don't think so.

Who asked the US to HEAD the same way?


These posts are about our own personal opinions or experiences, right, and they all differ. I am a dual citizen and a veteran of the US military and served in different countries including being stationed overseas. To experience those situations changes your perspective on CHOICE and freedom too.

We could find disgusting horror stories of poor health care, any city, any country.

I joined these boards (esp the Canadian boards) to have fun, not fight.
I would NOT go (for example) to the UK board and tell them that something in their country sucks. That's not fun to me.

Have a good evening everyone.

[minnie56]

And this is where I want US healthcare to head? I don't think so.

Who asked the US to HEAD the same way?


These posts are about our own personal opinions or experiences, right, and they all differ. I am a dual citizen and a veteran of the US military and served in different countries including being stationed overseas. To experience those situations changes your perspective on CHOICE and freedom too.

We could find disgusting horror stories of poor health care, any city, any country.

I joined these boards (esp the Canadian boards) to have fun, not fight.
I would NOT go (for example) to the UK board and tell them that something in their country sucks. That's not fun to me.

Have a good evening everyone.


Well, I am British Born! C'mon Daisy, lets go over there and add our 2 cents (or is it 1 after the 50% tax??) and tell them what we think about their system! Oops, it's the same as ours! No fun to be had there...party:

And to all-- a good night.

[PhotobearSam]

Ironically a friend of mine who lives outside of Toronto called me today. She suffers from a dibilitating condition, and has had at least five surgeries in the five years I've known her. She has often waited in pain for weeks for surgery because she has to get on a list. Currently she's waiting for her specialist to call her back due to serious post-op complications--she's got puss leaking from fissures forming in her abdomen--she called two weeks ago, and not only has she not gotten a call back, she can't even get an appointment for over a month. She was in so much pain the other day that she went to the ER. They gave her pain pills and sent her home, telling her to call her doctor in the morning.

She's actually considering selling her house to get the money to come to the US for treatment, because she can't get it there.

And this is where I want US healthcare to head? I don't think so.



I must know thousands of people (we own several businesses in our family and we are involved in politics) and I have known several people who have suffered horrible diseases and I have never heard of such a HORROR story. I think her friend was embellishing a bit if this is true.

If her friend really had these symptoms after surgery, she would have gone to the hospital ER and would have been dealt with right away...Puss leaking from fissures forming in her abdomen...

This is awful. This sounds like a horrible infection and I cannot imagine her not getting treatment. If she really needed treatment, her MP would have stepped in by then...Sounds too over the top for me so I think Ducklite's friend may have over exaggerated a bit (a big bit).

I have know a lot of people who have been really sick and I have yet to hear of a situation like this.

Has anyone else? (First hand accounts only)



I think the fundamental difference between us and the Americans is that we don't seek to PUNISH people who are sick and blame them, we take pity on EVERYONE who is sick and treat them with compassion even if they brought it upon themselves. We should all be judged on how we treat our most vulnerable members of society. It would make the world a better place and us better for being kind.

Just because someone is stupid, weak, uneducated or just plain unlucky, we should still help them.

[Csaks]

You are wrong. I'd use my savings to buy a private plan.

So there you go again. First you'd move for health care, then you'd live apart from your spouse for health care and now you'd eat up your savings just for health care. It seems health care is running you and you are happy about it.

Your friend from Toronto needs to stop BSing you or find a new Doctor. If she was that screwed up she should have gone to ER.

[ducklite]

I must know thousands of people (we own several businesses in our family and we are involved in politics) and I have known several people who have suffered horrible diseases and I have never heard of such a HORROR story. I think her friend was embellishing a bit if this is true.

If her friend really had these symptoms after surgery, she would have gone to the hospital ER and would have been dealt with right away...Puss leaking from fissures forming in her abdomen...

She did go to the ER right away. They gave her pain pills and told her to call her doctor. The one she had already been waiting two weeks for a call back from. There is no embellishment.

This is awful. This sounds like a horrible infection and I cannot imagine her not getting treatment. If she really needed treatment, her MP would have stepped in by then...Sounds too over the top for me so I think Ducklite's friend may have over exaggerated a bit (a big bit).

No, she's not exaggerating. SHe's got a chronic disease and has had multiple surgeries for it. She's had longer and longer healing times after each. THe last time it took her over six months for her surgical would to fully heal--and that was only after the application of a special vaccum device that she waited for over a month to ahve available to her.

I have know a lot of people who have been really sick and I have yet to hear of a situation like this.

I'm glad your friends are so fortunate.

I think the fundamental difference between us and the Americans is that we don't seek to PUNISH people who are sick and blame them, we take pity on EVERYONE who is sick and treat them with compassion even if they brought it upon themselves. We should all be judged on how we treat our most vulnerable members of society. It would make the world a better place and us better for being kind.

Just because someone is stupid, weak, uneducated or just plain unlucky, we should still help them.

I agree to an extent--but at what cost to the rest of society. For the majority of our most vulnerable they are already getting care through the Medi's. There are a lot of people who could find jobs with benefits, but choose not to because they :like what they do" (take the guy with the broken hand in one of my first posts on that thread as a prime example.) At what point should we make people become responsible for themselves?

[ducklite]

So there you go again. First you'd move for health care, then you'd live apart from your spouse for health care and now you'd eat up your savings just for health care. It seems health care is running you and you are happy about it.

Your friend from Toronto needs to stop BSing you or find a new Doctor. If she was that screwed up she should have gone to ER.

Maybe you need to go back and read the original post--she did go to ER. She has a chronic disease that there aren't all that many specialists who treat patients for it. Sometimes finding a new doctor isn't as easy as it sounds.

And really our situation is no different than that of someone where one spouse travels extensively for work. Or does that never happen in Canada? It's called earning a living.

[ducklite]

I joined these boards (esp the Canadian boards) to have fun, not fight.
I would NOT go (for example) to the UK board and tell them that something in their country sucks. That's not fun to me.

It's too bad that more of your countrymen haven't figured that out. I came over here only after I was attacked. I'd be happy to leave if you'd stop quoting me. But until then, I'll defend myself.

But the Americans have been called all sorts of nasty things by the Canadians because we don't feel that your model would work in our country. We're not over here criticizing your model, I"m not sure why you are over on the other thread taking pot shots at us.

If you are happy with your insurance, I'm really glad for you. But not everyone in the US is dying in the street or unhappy with thier situation like Michael Moore would lead you to believe. If he's so appalled by it, why didn't he donate all his profits from "Sicko" to fund a clinic? Hmmmm...

[ferris198]

Ducklite, I find the story of your friend to be rather disturbing, and/or a little embellished.
In Ontario prior to a person being discharged from hospital, they can discuss with the nursing staff, and social worker on home care upon discharge.
The hospital social worker will discuss with the patient what kind of support system is in place at home, and will often arrange for home health care, if required through Community Care Access Centres. The care will depend on the situation of course, but it can include nursing care to change bandages, check on stitches, help with bathing, basically whatever is required.
The amount of time depends on each individuals situation, it can be daily, it can be once or twice a week. Each situation is different, and treated as such.
And, it is covered under our health care.

[PhotobearSam]

Obviously, we are not going to change her mind. The only thing I can say is please don't judge our system for what your friend says she went through.

We are proud of our system and know it works here...We don't say you in the US should have to use our model, but develop your own.

It just seems to us, that if all the taxes you pay for medicare for the poor, all your premiums that you pay insurance companies, and all the PROFITS that clinics and hospitals make could be better used to make a system that is there for all your citizens. Maybe we are oversimplifying the situation but that is how it works here.

I would imagine that if all the $$$ insurance companies make off the American people was instead used for the care f these people, you would all be better off...


I am still waiting to see if anyone here knows ANYONE who has had as bad a time with our system as Ducklite's friend...If not, I suggest that is an extreme aberration and should be seen as such.


Ducklite, you say that not all Americans are dying in the streets because of lack of care...Well, we are not taxed to death here. We have a standard of living that, from what I have seen, rivals the level most people have in the US. We have nice houses, cars, trips, furniture, and we save for retirement like anyone else but we have the security to know that if we get sick tomorrow, nobody can take we will get the care we need and not be denied by a company that we paid thousands to and can now just leave us hanging. I know we won't change your mind but we are sure of our care, in the US, you can only be sure once the Insurance company says yes and by then it might be too late.

[CanadianGuy]

I took am a Canadian who lived for 8 years in the U.S.

For the first year of my contract employment, I had no health care coverage provided by my employer. I paid out of pocket for coverage and paid VERY dearly for it.

I had close friends without coverage who literally wouldn't or couldn't go to a doctor or hospital because they knew to do so.. would probably mean financial ruin for them.

Example:

In Los Angeles I woke up one morning in the most excruciating pain of my life. I was vomiting so hard that it eventually started to contain blood. I was convinced my appendix was about to burst.. finally got to the hospital.

Explained my situation, doctor examined me and sent me for a CT scan of my abdomen... I waited 2 hours for the scan.. 25 minutes for the scan itself and then back to the ER.

Eventually, after 2 hours more, the doctor decided I had been bitten by a black widow spider and gave me a prescription for pain and sent me home with the advice that "this will pass by tomorrow" and it did.

They gave me two shots of morphine for the pain and I sat on a gurney in a hallway for the better part of six hours, with the exception of the 25 minutes I went for the CT-Scan. I had a doctors attention for approximately 15 minutes total and I had nurse attention for the two morphine shots, approximately 10 minutes total. Otherwise, I was alone on the gurney till friends came to watch over me.

There was some confusion with the billing and I was actually sent a bill for this because for whatever reason my insurance didn't pay on first billing.

Total cost for this: $7660!!!

Imagine.. if you didn't have insurance... ??

This is a perfect example where the pain was so bad .. so unbelievable.. I seriously thought I was going to die. Anyone in their right mind would go to a hospital.

But in the end, if I were an uninsured, I would have paid almost eight thousand dollars to be told -- this too shall pass.

Ouch.

Knox

[ducklite]

Obviously, we are not going to change her mind. The only thing I can say is please don't judge our system for what your friend says she went through.

We are proud of our system and know it works here...We don't say you in the US should have to use our model, but develop your own.

If you go read that thread you'll see that I've put concrete, workable ideas on the table to assist all to get health care without raising taxes or forcing people happy with their current coverage into a national plan. One of the reasons your system works is because you weren't already paying a huge amount of taxes when it was begun, and you have only 10% of the population, so there isn't as much beauracracy.

It just seems to us, that if all the taxes you pay for medicare for the poor, all your premiums that you pay insurance companies, and all the PROFITS that clinics and hospitals make could be better used to make a system that is there for all your citizens. Maybe we are oversimplifying the situation but that is how it works here.

This is where I think many of you are misinformed. Over 70% of the hospitals in this country are government owned or owned by non-profits and run as a not-for-profit. The people covered by the Medi's are a wash, so you can't count any of that money. And most of the insurance companies are operating at less than 3% annual profit.

I would imagine that if all the $$$ insurance companies make off the American people was instead used for the care f these people, you would all be better off...

Like I said, the average is less than a 3% annual profit--that's not going to solve the problem.


I am still waiting to see if anyone here knows ANYONE who has had as bad a time with our system as Ducklite's friend...If not, I suggest that is an extreme aberration and should be seen as such.

Same as many of the cases being thrown around on these threads--the people in "Sicko" for example.


Ducklite, you say that not all Americans are dying in the streets because of lack of care...Well, we are not taxed to death here. We have a standard of living that, from what I have seen, rivals the level most people have in the US. We have nice houses, cars, trips, furniture, and we save for retirement like anyone else but we have the security to know that if we get sick tomorrow, nobody can take we will get the care we need and not be denied by a company that we paid thousands to and can now just leave us hanging. I know we won't change your mind but we are sure of our care, in the US, you can only be sure once the Insurance company says yes and by then it might be too late.

So in Canada any and every proceedure is automatically allowed? Many of the things an insurance company says no to are experimental--but no one ever mentions that when complaining that they were denied coverage. You (collectively) keep making assumptions that people are denied coverage all over the place left and right in the US, and that's simply not happening. Maybe the solution is to better regulate the insurance companies.

[Yzma and Kronk]

One last post on this issue from me.

I agree with Daisy in Durham's post.

In as much as Canadian's think our society mirrors that of the US - in a lot of ways that is not correct. Canada is a socialist society, and as such we love our UHC. It's what we know, it's what we like and we TRUST the government to run it for us. In the US this is just not the case.

Something to think about - many posts talk about the high cost of care in the US - $7660 for CAD Guys experience. I think if our system allowed us to see the cost of the procedures we proceive as "free" our health care would be viewed differently. The money to pay has to come from somewhere. And for most in the general public "out of sight - out of mind" applies. I don't even have a clue as to the cost when I had my babies. We trust our government to distribute health care tax dollars appropriately. Which creates problems in our system. But, nothing is perfect!

Ducklite had some valid points and she did come over here to defend herself. She was almost dared to do so. She had an example and we have no right to dispute her story. I have heard and read about similar stories in Canada.

Ducklite - no not every procedure is covered in Canada. There is a menu of items posted in most doctor's offices that are not covered. These are somewhat "inexpensive" items at this point, but I'll bet as our system continues to not be as efficient as it once was, more and more items will be added to this list.

Photobear, I will respectfully disagree with you on this point:

Well, we are not taxed to death here.

We are. And that is just the way it is to pay for our social services. However, you are comfortable with your level of taxation in return for the services it provides. And that's good. That's the way it's supposed to be.

[ducklite]

Ducklite, I find the story of your friend to be rather disturbing, and/or a little embellished.

In Ontario prior to a person being discharged from hospital, they can discuss with the nursing staff, and social worker on home care upon discharge.
The hospital social worker will discuss with the patient what kind of support system is in place at home, and will often arrange for home health care, if required through Community Care Access Centres. The care will depend on the situation of course, but it can include nursing care to change bandages, check on stitches, help with bathing, basically whatever is required.
The amount of time depends on each individuals situation, it can be daily, it can be once or twice a week. Each situation is different, and treated as such.
And, it is covered under our health care.

It's very disturbing, it's not embellished. She does have a home nurse coming in two times a week, the fissures began the day after the nurse was there, and she went to the ER. They sent her home with pain pills and told her to call her doctor--the one she had called two weeks earlier and was still waiting on a call back from because the home nurse felt that her surgical wound wasn't healing well.

And this would be covered under the health care that the majority of Americans have as well.

[ducklite]

And BTW--I have a Canadian Social Insurance card. I was required to get one and pay taxes into your system in 1990 because I spent more then "X" number days working in Canada that year.

The ironic thing is that when I had a dental emergency in Thunder Bay, I was unable to use it and ended up paying cash for the services. Had I been in the US where I had my private health insurance, it would have been covered. Interesting to say the least.

(At least teh dentist was hot. ;) )

[Kurby]

But the Americans have been called all sorts of nasty things by the Canadians because we don't feel that your model would work in our country. We're not over here criticizing your model, I"m not sure why you are over on the other thread taking pot shots at us.

and that's just it. As Canadians we like our system - we are a country of about 40 million people and what works for us may or may not work for a country of 240 million.

There is no one answer and no one size fits all system. Canadians be thankful we live in a country where we don't have to sell our house, move to another province, get a divorce just to get decent health care and Americans if you don't like your system by all means, voice your opinion to those people falling over themselves to get your vote over the past month. You've got a huge election coming up and use your vote to tell them you're either happy or not.

As for anyone waiting months to get treatment for puss filled infections, while that is tragic it certainly is few and far between.

is our system perfect - no - does everyone wait - no.

do we wait - yes but not for emergencies. we wait to have our child's speech checked (i waited about 6 weeks for an appointment for our daughter and turns out she was just slower in speaking actual words because we taught her sign language first), we wait to get appointments for eye exams (however we do have to pay for those now) we even wait to find a family dr but chalk that up to the lack of dr's in some cities because a lot of dr's are either moving to larger cities or to the States where they can make 3 and 4 times what they make here because of private insurance allows them to charge more then what our government says they can. (however the still make a hell of a lot more here then the average working person)

everyone has their own idea of what is right, what should work etc but that doesn't always mean that what's right for you is right for me.

Like i said - if you don't like your health care let your polititians know - they want your vote make it count.

[Kurby]

And BTW--I have a Canadian Social Insurance card. I was required to get one and pay taxes into your system in 1990 because I spent more then "X" number days working in Canada that year.

The ironic thing is that when I had a dental emergency in Thunder Bay, I was unable to use it and ended up paying cash for the services. Had I been in the US where I had my private health insurance, it would have been covered. Interesting to say the least.

(At least teh dentist was hot. ;) )

the SIN number you received only allows you to work in Canada - not receive any benefits from it - the SIN number is what i can gather, your social security number and only for work. If you qualified for it you would have applied for and received an OHIP card (at that time - it's now a Health Card) and you would have received the benefits we all receive and dental is not one of them unless you are on social assistance.

I stated in my first post that i think basic dental care should be included in our Health Care coverage but to date it is not and even if it was, an emergence dental visit prob wouldn't be covered under basic coverage unless your emergence was that your filling fell out or you broke a tooth that could be fixed with that filling compound - other wise it isn't/wasn't basic. (and by that i mean, cleaning, fillings, xrays)

[ducklite]

the SIN number you received only allows you to work in Canada - not receive any benefits from it - the SIN number is what i can gather, your social security number and only for work. If you qualified for it you would have applied for and received an OHIP card (at that time - it's now a Health Card) and you would have received the benefits we all receive and dental is not one of them unless you are on social assistance.

I stated in my first post that i think basic dental care should be included in our Health Care coverage but to date it is not and even if it was, an emergence dental visit prob wouldn't be covered under basic coverage unless your emergence was that your filling fell out or you broke a tooth that could be fixed with that filling compound - other wise it isn't/wasn't basic. (and by that i mean, cleaning, fillings, xrays)

I should have been clearer--I had an Ontario Provincial health card as well at the time. I do not know if it's still valid, I would think probably not.

[Kurby]

oh ok - but dental still wouldn't have been covered. and i doubt it would still be good - if it's the health card and not the ohip card it has an expiry date on it which has prob passed.

which really should be.

[calgarygary]

I've been on these boards for years and Ducklite has always been, and will always be self-righteous in her posts. Many view her in that light. It’s sad, as she seems like an intelligent and otherwise decent person. But she views herself as always right and all those who oppose her are always wrong. And she can never just state her opinions, she has to belittle those who disagree with her.

Frankly, speaking from experience, I have come to the conclusion that whenever I see someone's (especially as in the above mentioned) posts it is best to just skip over them. However, there is a story that I won't go into about a time when I couldn't skip over them and now the above mentioned poster and myself can no longer post on the Disney Restaurants board. Do yourselves a favour and resist the urge...... after all, you are not going to sway the thought process that exists within.

[digskat]

Another post on behalf of our system.
A friend of mine was experiencing discomfort, and went in to see his doctor. He was diagnosed with testicular cancer within 24 hours, and was into see a specialist within a week. He had the testicle removed, and started radiarion therapy. Because of the fast actio, he was spared chemotherapy. He has been 6 years cancer free.

A couple of years ago, I was on a shoppping trip south of the border, and ended up doubled over in a parking lot. We returned home, I was seen in the emergency department, and was immediately taken for an ultrasound. An issue was noted in my gall bladder, and I had an appointment for further testing within 48 hours. Fortunately for me, it was not cancerous, but the treatment was extremely fast.

As per the comment someone made that it wasn't many/most without, it was merely some. More than one in six Americans do not have health insurance (1 in 3 under 65), and the number has been increasing by a million per year since 2000. The number of people below the poverty line has increased at the same rate. With the economy in a tailspin, these rates are increasing. While we have the same issues with unemployment and poverty, at least these people have health protection. For the comments that those without benefits should get a job with benefits.......According to the Council on International and Public Affairs (CIPA), the U.S. rate of unemployment, is 11.4 per cent, and the number of businesses that have dropped their coverage for employees has dropped 15%. The only area that has seen a rise in employment is the service industry, most of which doesn't provide these benfits. It isn't always easy to improve one's lot.

[Charleyann]

My son has had 200 plus admission to hospital since birth. Cold hard reality is if it was the States we would be ruined or he dead as it would have cribbled us/ anybody with this much problem.

I thank God for Canadian Health Care. I don't have to get up in the morning and worry whether there is enough money to get him help.

Charleyann

[PhotobearSam]

My son has had 200 plus admission to hospital since birth. Cold hard reality is if it was the States we would be ruined or he dead as it would have cribbled us/ anybody with this much problem.

I thank God for Canadian Health Care. I don't have to get up in the morning and worry whether there is enough money to get him help.

Charleyann


Oh, your poor boy...Awful but it's nice to know that you can get him help.

Where is Beaver Dam?...I'm in Shediac (Well Grand-Barachois if we get technical but our business is in Shediac)

[surfer_ed]

I now live in Ontario and have to say that it seems better than when I lived on the east coast in the late 90's...could not get a family doctor there at all and waited 18 months to see a specalist in Moncton.

That being said...I have now been waiting 7 months to see a specialist in Markham for an irregular heart beat issue. Keep getting bumped down the list because by traditional measures I am not that sick.:eek: Tell that to my kids when I am too tired to chase them around. My Cardio says if I had $10,000+ US he could get me into Rochster NY next week.

Also my GP is on mat leave and have been waiting 5 weeks to get his 1 year check-up.

Sorry to vent.:mad:

[Charleyann]

Oh, your poor boy...Awful but it's nice to know that you can get him help.

Where is Beaver Dam?...I'm in Shediac (Well Grand-Barachois if we get technical but our business is in Shediac)

Beaver Dam is between Fredericton and Fredericton Junction. New Maryland area. Also near Oromocto.

Shediac, we have been. We like to Camp in Shediac!


My son is very resilant. Bounces back very quickly. This is the only life he has known, so it doesn't bother him!


Charleyann

[ferris198]

Dear CharleyAnn,
Just prior to reading you post I was thinking of a friend of mine and her son.
He is about the same age as your son, and his own health issues.
He was born 2 months early, and after that was diagnosed with Sickle Anemia. If he was born in the States he would probably be dead s she is a single parent.
He has been hospitalized so many times,I have lost count.
I hope everything goes well for for ypur boy and will keep him in my prayers.

[chobie]

So there you go again. First you'd move for health care, then you'd live apart from your spouse for health care and now you'd eat up your savings just for health care. It seems health care is running you and you are happy about it.

Your friend from Toronto needs to stop BSing you or find a new Doctor. If she was that screwed up she should have gone to ER.

Come on ...it's the American Dream. You work three jobs to to afford health care. You uproot your kids and move them away from extended family and friends at the drop of hat to live some place cheaper so you can buy even more insurance in case the health insurance you are already paying through the nose for it is not enough. Isn't that the life you want to live?:confused3

[Csaks]

I'm done with this.

I grew up with heath care always being there when I needed it and never gave it a second thought. My Mom and I talked about it once and told me dad had a great job offer down in the States when I was about 10. He had to turn it down because getting insurance would be next to impossible because of heart problems and if something happened it would break them.

So that is were I get my opinion on this topic. My parents were held back due to the American system at one point in there lives. I can't understand how the richest country on this planet could not have something for those that cannot afford care. Some of the premiums quoted by our American friends are down right scary, I can't imagine paying that every month (but I guess I do anyway if you consider taxes:rotfl: ) for heath care. But if you read some of the taxes someone like Ducklite pays it makes you wonder who's better off.

If my parents had to make this decision due to heath care, others must have as well and in my opinion that sucks.

I also need to remember this is the system I count on and has served me and my family well. My dad died of terminal cancer at the ripe old age of 56 five years ago Feb. 14. He was cared for by alot of people who helped him and us through a very trying time. To me the system was fine, he was treated and offered different treatments, but no matter what or how much money we had there would not have been any other outcome, here or in the States.


Chris.

P.S. Ducklite I apologize to you for jumping all over your comments. It was uncalled for and very Un-Canadian of me.

[brighteyes]

Ducklite, I find the story of your friend to be rather disturbing, and/or a little embellished.
In Ontario prior to a person being discharged from hospital, they can discuss with the nursing staff, and social worker on home care upon discharge.
The hospital social worker will discuss with the patient what kind of support system is in place at home, and will often arrange for home health care, if required through Community Care Access Centres. The care will depend on the situation of course, but it can include nursing care to change bandages, check on stitches, help with bathing, basically whatever is required.
The amount of time depends on each individuals situation, it can be daily, it can be once or twice a week. Each situation is different, and treated as such.
And, it is covered under our health care.

ITA. When I had my DS in 1995 I needed an emergency C-section. Next day woke up with horrible pain and burning in my incision. Felt like my skin was burning :eek: On the antibiotics I go and in the hospital for no less than 11 days!!! I was begging the hospital staff to let me go home. After bandage change after bandage change and nurses and 3 showers a day to keep my wound clean I was exhausted and no time with DS. On the 12th day they agreed to let me go home ONLY if I agreed to have a nurse come from CCAC. She did 3 times and day, the 2 times a day for the next month. They would not let me go home alone (I was not with DH anymore) until I agreed to have a nurse come. Gladly I agreed. :yay: Although I was in considerable pain from a severly infected incision I was so glad to get out of there. :dance3: Finally had some bonding time with DS in between all the medicine I had to take :rotfl:


Stephanie

[Feralpeg]

I hope you all don't mind my asking a question about your health care system.

One of the reasons health care in the US is so expensive is because every doctors office, hospital, lab, etc. have their own staff to cover all the paper work for things like medicare, medicaid and billing. It costs them a fortune. I just keep thinking that we need a national system where all a persons medical information would reside. Each doctor would submit their bill for a person to this system which would take care of all the paperwork and patient billing. It would be a great place to keep all a persons medical records so that every doctor would have access to all the patients information. Of course, this will probably never happen here. :confused3

Anyway, do your healthcare providers do all of their own billing or do you have some sort of national database? I hope this makes sense.

Personally, I would love to see a system such as yours put in place in the US.

[pta-mom]

I believe Feralpeg that each of the Doc's office staff bill OHIP, following OHIP's rules & the hospitals have their own staff as well. Of course, if someone else knows this to be untrue, please jump in.

I was wondering about something else though. I wonder if part of the problem with the US system being so high to afford is not partly because of the proclivity of the US people towards suing their doctors & health care professionals so frequently. Again, this is only an observation of mine but it does seem that though we do read of an odd Canadian taking their doctor to court, it does not seem to be very frequent. But in the states, it appears to happen A LOT! I doubt it's because Canada has ALL the best doctors!!

If Doctors need TONS of insurance to protect themselves would it not stand to reason that they than have to charge more for their procedures, passing the cost on to their client's insurance, thereby making that insurance prohibitive for the common US citizen? Just a thought.

[digskat]

Malpractice Insurance, doctor/nurse recruitment, insurance company involvement...... all would be involved in driving up costs. However the biggest reason wold be the purpose of the Board of Directors, in Canada their biggest concern is the patient care delivery and fiscal responsibility, while in the USA it is purely fiscal profit.
As far as the 3% profit margin for the insurance company. I find it hard to believe, since they are also a big money business. Unless American Insurance companies are more client oriented, their business is based on being in a position of advantage. A friend of mine is an adjustor, and he has admitted that they are told to deny the majority of their claims, that most people will swallow what they are told. At the end of the year, they feel they only pay out about 30-40% of entitlements, add to that only about 35% of their clients make claims in a given year, and their profit margins are large. If insurance companies are so wonderful, the number of ambulance chasers would be nil, and they sure wouldn't be able to afford to advertise on national television.

[chobie]

Malpractice Insurance, doctor/nurse recruitment, insurance company involvement...... all would be involved in driving up costs. However the biggest reason wold be the purpose of the Board of Directors, in Canada their biggest concern is the patient care delivery and fiscal responsibility, while in the USA it is purely fiscal profit.
As far as the 3% profit margin for the insurance company. I find it hard to believe, since they are also a big money business. Unless American Insurance companies are more client oriented, their business is based on being in a position of advantage. A friend of mine is an adjustor, and he has admitted that they are told to deny the majority of their claims, that most people will swallow what they are told. At the end of the year, they feel they only pay out about 30-40% of entitlements, add to that only about 35% of their clients make claims in a given year, and their profit margins are large. If insurance companies are so wonderful, the number of ambulance chasers would be nil, and they sure wouldn't be able to afford to advertise on national television.


Exactly. The whole point of insurance companies is to make a profit. They can only make a profit if you do not use the benefits you are paying for in advance. The incentive is to deny them and make people fight for them. How anyone can think this is a good idea is beyond me. Call me a socialist, but I don't think everything should be about profit. When it comes to education of children and the health of my fellow citizens, profit should not be involved. Part of living in a society is taking care of one another.

Thanks for letting this American post on your thread. I stayed away from the other thread because I don't want to debate it. I am pleased that the health care issue is now on the list of priorities for American voters. Most people agree that something has to be done. We might not be ready for UHC, but we are moving closer.

[wee-haggis]

Profit Motive: What’s Wrong with American Health Care?
by Kathleen Bushman

Edwards has the smile and the hair of a Kennedy, but will his health care policy alleviate the strangling cost, anxiety, and stress the working class is enduring as a consequence of our present system? Does Edwards, or any of the Democratic candidates, offer a health care plan that will relieve middle class suffering as the cost of health care has become the leading cause life disruption, behind home foreclosures and bankruptcies?

We Americans, by almost any standard, do not have the best health care system in the world, but we do hold bragging rights to the most expensive. Americans spend 50% more for their health care than the next most expensive country, and nearly twice the per person cost of the Canadian system.

Although Americans have by far the highest priced health care system in the world, no Americans should suffer under the delusion they enjoy the best health care system in the world. Citizens in 34 countries live longer than Americans. There are other methods of ranking a country's health care system, but to me the average life span of a country's citizens seems one of the very best methods. That fact alone should be a cause for a national sense of shame in the most powerful and fifth richest country in the world, but if that fact isn't bad enough here's another: "In mid-February (of 2004), the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta also revealed that the U.S. infant mortality rate now stands at 7 as of 2002, backsliding from 6.8 in 2001." Out of 195 countries ranked by the United Nations, the United States is ranked below Canada, Cuba, Ireland, Italy, Brunei, and 32 other countries which have a lower infant mortality rate. Literally every country in Western Europe has a lower infant mortality rate and a longer life expectancy than the United States. So, even as the costs of America's health care system continue to soar, the quality continues to deteriorate.

I can cite the commonly known fact that nearly 46 million Americans have no health coverage at all and over 40 million more have only minimal coverage, but I seldom see media coverage about the millions with "deluded coverage". Many Americans only discover the gaps, co-pays, and exclusions of their health care plans when they experience a medical crisis. The LA Times recently reported that "One of the (California) state's largest health insurers set goals and paid bonuses based in part on how many individual policyholders were dropped and how much money was saved." If a family is at risk of losing a loved one, the family should not have to wonder whether their doctor's choice of treatment options will be restricted by which option the insurance company considers the most cost effective treatment.

A for-profit system whose first goal is profit does not put patient welfare before cost considerations. Thus, even those Americans who can afford the world's most expensive health care system are not guaranteed the best available health care. If a treatment plan is expensive but the best possible care for the patient, it will often be rejected to cut costs. A less effective but cheaper treatment plan will be chosen instead.

As this Alternet article states, "There are two criteria used to judge a country's health care system: the overall success of creating and sustaining health in the population, and the ability to control costs while doing so. A recent study published in the Canadian Medical Association Journal compares mortality rates in private for-profit and non-profit hospitals in the United States. Research on 38 million adult patients in 26,000 U.S. hospitals revealed that death rates in for-profit hospitals are significantly higher than in non-profit hospitals: for-profit patients have a 2 percent higher chance of dying in the hospital or within 30 days of discharge. The increased death rates were clearly linked to "the corners that for-profit hospitals must cut in order to achieve a profit margin for investors, as well as to pay high salaries for administrators." "To ease cost pressures, administrators tend to hire less highly skilled personnel, including doctors, nurses, and pharmacists" wrote P. J. Devereaux, a cardiologist at McMaster University, the lead researcher. "The U.S. statistics clearly show that when the need for profits drives hospital decision making, more patients die."

"Conservatives love to trot out the theory that the soaring cost of America's health care is due to malpractice suits, when in fact only 0.46% of our total health care spending is spent upon awards, legal or underwriting costs - about the same as Canada's… The administration of the health care system today consumes approximately 31% of the money spent for health care. The potential savings, as much as $350 billion per year, are enough to provide comprehensive coverage to every American without paying any more than we already do." ( A Healthy Nation – Myths)

It seems evident to me that a country which spends billions on corporate welfare can well afford to consider some programs to benefit its citizens. If America is not a corporatocracy run solely for the benefit of companies such as Enron, Worldcom, Halliburton, Blackwater, and the media mega corporations, then it is time for the application of some good old American common sense. It is time for more regulation, and it is certainly time to at least see that our next Henry Ford lives past childhood.

Dennis Kucinich is the only Democratic candidate who offers a single payer not for profit health care system to cover all Americans. Since no other Democratic candidate's plan would stop the soaring cost of the for-profit system, there is only one plan America can afford: the Kucinich plan.

[PhotobearSam]

I believe Feralpeg that each of the Doc's office staff bill OHIP, following OHIP's rules & the hospitals have their own staff as well. Of course, if someone else knows this to be untrue, please jump in.



Each Doctor or Office either employ a person to bill their Provincial Health Care (Ohip in Ontario, it's a different agency for each province because each province gets an amount of funding from the Federal Government based on population.

Each visit and procedure has a code and they bill the government with those codes. The government then pays them with the set amount they have decided each code deserves.

Now, we do have to pay for small things sometimes. (I paid $10 for the flu shot this year but DH did not because of his other conditions and I had to pay once for a note for my employer because I needed it to claim benefits)

If you go to a different province than the one you live in, there are some things that are not covered but I am unsure of what they are. (I assume they are not huge things but I don't have an example of what they could be...I assume it's for visit to a clinic and not a hospital for emergencies)

[Feralpeg]

I was wondering about something else though. I wonder if part of the problem with the US system being so high to afford is not partly because of the proclivity of the US people towards suing their doctors & health care professionals so frequently. Again, this is only an observation of mine but it does seem that though we do read of an odd Canadian taking their doctor to court, it does not seem to be very frequent. But in the states, it appears to happen A LOT! I doubt it's because Canada has ALL the best doctors!!

If Doctors need TONS of insurance to protect themselves would it not stand to reason that they than have to charge more for their procedures, passing the cost on to their client's insurance, thereby making that insurance prohibitive for the common US citizen? Just a thought.

Sadly, this is true. In fact, many doctors have chosen to leave their practices in Florida due to the very high number of malpractice lawsuits. I was seeing a very good OB/GYN doctor, but she could no longer afford the insurance necessary to stay in practice.

Also, I noticed people on the CB thread saying that they don't have to wait to see doctors in the US. Well, they are doing better than I am. To get into my GP, it takes at least two weeks. I've called trying to get in when I've been sick, but they have had no openings. My GP is an excellent doctor. This has made him very popular and his practice is swamped. Most of the time, when I am actually feeling ill, I end up in a walk-in clinic. I'd rather see my regular GP, but I just can't wait to get in. For things like my yearly mammogram, I have to make an appointment a year in advance. In fact, I tried to get my appointment moved last year because I was having surgery and knew I would be too sore after to have the test. They told me they couldn't move me up (this was a month in advance). The only thing they could do would be to book me another year out. Crazy!

[pta-mom]

Each Doctor or Office either employ a person to bill their Provincial Health Care (Ohip in Ontario, it's a different agency for each province because each province gets an amount of funding from the Federal Government based on population.

Each visit and procedure has a code and they bill the government with those codes. The government then pays them with the set amount they have decided each code deserves.

Now, we do have to pay for small things sometimes. (I paid $10 for the flu shot this year but DH did not because of his other conditions and I had to pay once for a note for my employer because I needed it to claim benefits)

If you go to a different province than the one you live in, there are some things that are not covered but I am unsure of what they are. (I assume they are not huge things but I don't have an example of what they could be...I assume it's for visit to a clinic and not a hospital for emergencies)

Right!! Sorry about that...when I was writting my original post, I was actually thinking about Ontario & hence, OHIP, but you are 100% correct PhotobearSam about each province having different names for their insurance & slightly different coverage.

[chobie]

Sadly, this is true. In fact, many doctors have chosen to leave their practices in Florida due to the very high number of malpractice lawsuits. I was seeing a very good OB/GYN doctor, but she could no longer afford the insurance necessary to stay in practice.

Also, I noticed people on the CB thread saying that they don't have to wait to see doctors in the US. Well, they are doing better than I am. To get into my GP, it takes at least two weeks. I've called trying to get in when I've been sick, but they have had no openings. My GP is an excellent doctor. This has made him very popular and his practice is swamped. Most of the time, when I am actually feeling ill, I end up in a walk-in clinic. I'd rather see my regular GP, but I just can't wait to get in. For things like my yearly mammogram, I have to make an appointment a year in advance. In fact, I tried to get my appointment moved last year because I was having surgery and knew I would be too sore after to have the test. They told me they couldn't move me up (this was a month in advance). The only thing they could do would be to book me another year out. Crazy!


I'm in Florida too and have the same problem. I do not have a primary care doctor because I don't have the time to schedule an appointment several weeks out for a routine check up before I can get a primary care doctor. And even if I did it is likely they would not be able to see when I was sick. So I go to the drop in clinics and pay $50 co-pay rather than then $20 co-pay. I generally have to wait about 2 hours to be seen by a PA at one of those clinics.

[ducklite]

Come on ...it's the American Dream. You work three jobs to to afford health care. You uproot your kids and move them away from extended family and friends at the drop of hat to live some place cheaper so you can buy even more insurance in case the health insurance you are already paying through the nose for it is not enough. Isn't that the life you want to live?:confused3

If that was intended towards me, we uprooted and moved some place three times as expensive, that had opportunities for REAL jobs instead of hourly crap. We all make choices in our lives, our choice was to better ourselves in many ways--not just by getting good health insurance.

[ducklite]

I'm in Florida too and have the same problem. I do not have a primary care doctor because I don't have the time to schedule an appointment several weeks out for a routine check up before I can get a primary care doctor. And even if I did it is likely they would not be able to see when I was sick. So I go to the drop in clinics and pay $50 co-pay rather than then $20 co-pay. I generally have to wait about 2 hours to be seen by a PA at one of those clinics.

I can get an appointment with my GP for routine care with under a two weeks wait, and a same day appointment if I'm sick.

My son got a same day appointment with a specialist this past week--and he was a new patient.

[chobie]

If that was intended towards me, we uprooted and moved some place three times as expensive, that had opportunities for REAL jobs instead of hourly crap. We all make choices in our lives, our choice was to better ourselves in many ways--not just by getting good health insurance.


Your posts on the other thread seem to imply that people should be willing to let health insurance dictate their lives: where they live, what career they choose etc.


I simply believe that health care should be a right in civilized societies. I know you disagree, but I do not wish to debate this.

[minnie56]

We cruised this past Spring with a Dr from the Boston area..he was an OB-GYN as well. He was telling us that he has now dropped the Obstetrics as his Malpractice Insurance has become outrageous and he simply can no longer afford it, which I am sure is unfortunate as he was an awesome guy and LOVED bringing babies into this world!!!!!

You know, a few years back, we had a mass exodus of our great Physicians leaving Canada destined for the U.S. Why? Because they could make the REALLY big bucks there whilst being Income capped here. I questioned the motive, being money and not 'love of their job' and now I question where or from whom these monies were being generated? Many are back now...guess they didn't like the system enough to offset the $$$$:confused3

[damo]

I'm in Florida too and have the same problem. I do not have a primary care doctor because I don't have the time to schedule an appointment several weeks out for a routine check up before I can get a primary care doctor. And even if I did it is likely they would not be able to see when I was sick. So I go to the drop in clinics and pay $50 co-pay rather than then $20 co-pay. I generally have to wait about 2 hours to be seen by a PA at one of those clinics.

Chobie, does co-pay mean that you have to pay this much at each appointment? Is that the case with everyone with all differenty health insurances in the US?

[ducklite]

Your posts on the other thread seem to imply that people should be willing to let health insurance dictate their lives: where they live, what career they choose etc.


I simply believe that health care should be a right in civilized societies. I know you disagree, but I do not wish to debate this.

Actually I don't disagree. I disagree that UHC is the only right way, and I don't beleive that people who are happy with their current plan should be forced to give it up for socialized medicine. We've got to find a way to provide basic care with money already available, and not raise taxes to do so. I've said all of that many times over, but no one seems to want to read it, and would rather just call me a liar or say that UHC is the only answer. :sad2:

[chobie]

Chobie, does co-pay mean that you have to pay this much at each appointment? Is that the case with everyone with all differenty health insurances in the US?

Yes, almost every insurance has all sort of co-pays for every situation: doctor's visits, prescriptions, hospitalizations, emergency room visits, ambulance rides etc. Many of the co-pays must be paid upfront before being seen. So, basically most of us with health insurance are not only paying huge monthly premiums, we are shelling out money every time we use the benefits we are already paying for.


Wait it gets better - some insurances pay a set amount, say 80%, depending on which providers you go to. So, if you go to a "preferred" provider they will pay more of the bill. However, that 80% is based on what the insurance company thinks is a reasonable amount and not what the fee actually is. When I had this type of insurance the 80% for preferred providers usually turned out to be 60%We switiched to HMOs because it was more reasonable for our families and we always knew uprfront what the copays would be.

[ducklite]

Chobie, does co-pay mean that you have to pay this much at each appointment? Is that the case with everyone with all differenty health insurances in the US?

It depends on your insurance. Some people have no co-pay while others might have a $40 co-pay. It also depends on if you are seeing an in-network or out of network provider.

[chobie]

Actually I don't disagree. I disagree that UHC is the only right way, and I don't beleive that people who are happy with their current plan should be forced to give it up for socialized medicine. We've got to find a way to provide basic care with money already available, and not raise taxes to do so. I've said all of that many times over, but no one seems to want to read it, and would rather just call me a liar or say that UHC is the only answer. :sad2:

I apologize. I did not see that statement and I agree that there should be way to for people to continue with paid insurance should they wish. I am willing to pay more in taxes, however, because I think it would even out over time. Every year our insurance premiums go up and the COLAs have not offset the increase. My husband is a teacher, has taught in two states, and in both state every increase in pay (which would be highly trumpeted in the news) would be offset by a decrease in what the state pays for health benefits (which would not be reported in the news:rolleyes: )

[nelljay1973]

My first disclaimer...I haven't read every single post, I'd go cross eyed!

I come from the perspective of having used 2 UHC systems different from each other, and I am the first one to say that every system has it's fault, be it private or universal.

In Australia they have a "two tiered" system and the system has changed alot since I've moved to Canada. They have a base UHC system which covers everyone which comes with it's own frustrations. You do not get to choose your Dr who treats you (outside of your family Dr) and yes you have to wait for ELECTIVE surgery, meaning if you are not going to die, you wait while those less fortunate are treated.

If you would like to see a particular specialist, as in you would like to choose specialist A over specialist B then you will have to pay. The government has a set of accepted charges that a Dr can charge..and they refer this as the "bulk bill charge"..ie the government says a visit to a GP that the government will pay is $25, a Dr can charge more than this, say, for example $30 and you are left to pay $5. This does not happen very much on the GP level, but on the specialist level the "gap" could be great.

So enter the second tier in the system...private insurance. These premiums are paid by individuals and the government actually gives you incentives through the taxation system to join them, or rather if you do not join and you earn X you will have to pay an extra levy on you tax. The private insurance covers you for the "gap" in Dr's visits and is very similar to private insurance in Canada, covers Dental, Ambulance etc.

When I started my first full time job back in 1995, the Australian goverment had recently passed a law that took away employer health plans, because they deemed that an employer should not be in the business of providing heatlh care to its employees for they may choose not to provide a comprehensive coverage.

Another aspect of the Australian system, is the pharmaceutical benefits system. The goverment subsidizes certain drugs to make them more economical for people and I LOVE this system. From my memory the most an individual will ever pay for drugs from this list in $750 per year and after you have reached that limit all you have to pay is the dispensing fee...when I left it was $2.50 per prescription. My mother who is diabetic well and truly reaches the limit ever year and thanks to this system is well protected and will not go brankrupt from medical expenses.

So basically the system works like...you have access to health care BUT if you can afford it then use the private system in conjunction with the public system.

[Tantor]

Sorry just saw this thread.
Another Canuck here who is happy with our system. It's not perfect but I am glad we have it.

[digskat]

We had a government promote 2 tier healthcare a few years ago, and recently went through a provincial election, where this was briefly discussed. Both times I was adamantly opposed to it (as it was promoted), because it would destroy our Government run system. How many doctors would stay in the public system, with a capped income and partial control, when they could open their own for- profit clinic, and demand their own fees. Our current hospitals would be robbed of staff, as they were recruited to private hospitals. The only people that would benefit would be the upper class, who cold afford the bill or the exhorbitant insurance fees. The lower middle class, and poor would be stuck using a heavily depleted public system.

[wee-haggis]

I disagree that UHC is the only right way, and I don't beleive that people who are happy with their current plan should be forced to give it up for socialized medicine.

Agreed...although,whenever I hear the term "socialized medicine" ,I get visions of a run down,dilapidated Soviet era hospital system :goodvibes.
What we have in Canada is far from that.

We've got to find a way to provide basic care with money already available, and not raise taxes to do so.

'The money available" is dwindling and the astronomical,mind boggling $ being spent at this time cannot go on indefinitely.
The problem is,whenever you have "for profit" Hosptals and Medical Insurance companies, the satisfying of the shareholders is always going to be #1.
Thats just the way things work with corporations ,conglomerates and multi nationals.

I've said all of that many times over, but no one seems to want to read it, and would rather just call me a liar or say that UHC is the only answer. :sad2:

I've read them and your opinion is your opinion. Its obvious that no matter what others participating on this thread say,they'll never convince you that a UHC system is better for you. But, as has been mentioned time and time again in previous posts, there are more folk to consider than just ourselves. That would be selfish. The "I'm All Right Jack" attitude is just not acceptable in countries such as ours.

Please read my previous post and I think you'll agree that the writer makes some valid points (based on unbiased studies and reports I would say).
Let me ask you a question.
If they were to implement a Universal Health Care system in your state and you got the same care with perhaps a little bit more waiting time for elective surgery (and if you chose to pay a bit more money you could go to a private facility). If the increase in your taxes were to balance out (or perhaps be less money) than what you pay for insurance coverage,would you not consider it as a viable option ?

[ducklite]

Agreed...although,whenever I hear the term "socialized medicine" ,I get visions of a run down,dilapidated Soviet era hospital system :goodvibes.
What we have in Canada is far from that.

I never said is was. I do contend however that socialized is the correct definition. You can wrap it up in pretty paper and call it what you want, but bottom line, it's socialized.

'The money available" is dwindling and the astronomical,mind boggling $ being spent at this time cannot go on indefinitely.

I absolutely agree and ahve said so exhaustively.

The problem is,whenever you have "for profit" Hosptals and Medical Insurance companies, the satisfying of the shareholders is always going to be #1.
Thats just the way things work with corporations ,conglomerates and multi nationals.

But the for profit health insurers should be the problem of those who choose to use those insurers. I am happy with my healthcare, even if it means they make a little money off my premiums. I understand that not everyone feels that way, and I think the best way to make our system better would be to make it easier for people to buy into private plans--and make those plans more competitive. As far as hospitals, the vast majority are either public or non-profit. The last time I was hopitalized it was in a non-profit. My entire bill was paid by my insurance except a co-pay for medication. I didn't wait for weeks or months to get the surgery, even though it wasn't a life threatening situation.

I've read them and your opinion is your opinion. Its obvious that no matter what others participating on this thread say,they'll never convince you that a UHC system is better for you. But, as has been mentioned time and time again in previous posts, there are more folk to consider than just ourselves. That would be selfish. The "I'm All Right Jack" attitude is just not acceptable in countries such as ours.

And like I said, I agree that something needs to be done. But there are huge amounts of tax dollars being wasted in this country that could be used towards health care spending--like this ridiculous tax rebate. Perhaps they should use that to buy into the medi's for the uninsured working poor? Instead they are giving it to people who will use it to go to Disney World.

Please read my previous post and I think you'll agree that the writer makes some valid points (based on unbiased studies and reports I would say).
Let me ask you a question.
If they were to implement a Universal Health Care system in your state and you got the same care with perhaps a little bit more waiting time for elective surgery (and if you chose to pay a bit more money you could go to a private facility). If the increase in your taxes were to balance out (or perhaps be less money) than what you pay for insurance coverage,would you not consider it as a viable option ?

I'm always willing to look at a new plan, but I don't want to be forced into giving up the coverage I currently have if it turns out that it's better. And every plan that's been put on the table so far would have been worse, and would have cost me thousands in additional taxes over and above what I'm already paying for insurance. I want to choose my doctors and I want to choose my hospital (there are some around ehre that I wouldn't take my dog to).

The best way to make providers do a better job is to increase competition and allow them to earn what the market will bear. If patients are automatically sent to "X" hospital because their last name starts with "V" or they live on "X street" then the hospitals have no incentive to do a better job. If a doctors income is capped, what incentive do they have to provide the best in care? The best way to have health insurers offer the best rates and most services per dollar is to make them compete for the business with each other--something that's not being done very well in the US.

We have our insurance through DH's job. They have 13,000 employees and 7-8 plans to choose from. That's a lot of leverage with the various insurers to put their very best plan on the table at teh best possible price. If each county/parish became a buying consortium that allowed the currently un and under-insured residents to choose from 2-3 plans (more in very dense population areas) don't you think the insurers would put thier best foot forward to try to get and retain that business?

[DearDaisyinDurham]

If there were as many letters/emails written to local and federal representatives re: this, as posts written to the DIS, perhaps your politicians would listen??? You have so much info, let it be heard other than at the DIS? On the Canadian board, where we can't really help you to change your country's health plans or lack of same? You have amazing enthusiasms and insights ducklite.

[wee-haggis]

I get tired reading all this stuff .
I'm just going to gracefully slide away.....the arguments are pointless and futile.
I want to think about happy, non-confrontational Disney stuff !:dance3: :banana: :worship: :yay:

[DearDaisyinDurham]

I get tired reading all this stuff .
I'm just going to gracefully slide away.....the arguments are pointless and futile.
I want to think about happy, non-confrontational Disney stuff !:dance3: :banana: :worship: :yay:

Can I hear an Amen!! I joined these boards (esp the Canadian boards) to have fun, not fight. Not to debate but to have fun.

[PhotobearSam]

I'm out...

We are not trying to change your mind, Ducklite. We are just as adamant in our view of our own health care here. We stand up for it as you stand up for yours.

I would not switch to your type of health care even if it meant that I would have a bigger house, more $$$ in the bank and shorter waits...I just would not, because I don't want to worry about the What IF's...

I have always appreciated how much Americans are proud of their Country, display the Flag and respect the Presidency even though they may not respect the actual President...BUT, We are so proud of our health care, it's a part of us.

Imagine that to us, Our health care is as important as your constitution, your free speech and your right to bear arms is to most Americans. You would all fight to keep those things and we would fight tooth and nail to keep our health coverage. It's just who we are as a people.

I have found health care to be the one unifying truth between all Canadian. It's not perfect but it's ours. We might disagree on Politics, religion and which hockey team is the best but we all stand by the rights of all Canadians to have health care...It's who we are. It's a CANADIAN IDENTITY...

We can't make anyone change their mind and unless you lived here, you can't really get it. It's a Canadian thing.

[damo]

Yes, almost every insurance has all sort of co-pays for every situation: doctor's visits, prescriptions, hospitalizations, emergency room visits, ambulance rides etc. Many of the co-pays must be paid upfront before being seen. So, basically most of us with health insurance are not only paying huge monthly premiums, we are shelling out money every time we use the benefits we are already paying for.


Wait it gets better - some insurances pay a set amount, say 80%, depending on which providers you go to. So, if you go to a "preferred" provider they will pay more of the bill. However, that 80% is based on what the insurance company thinks is a reasonable amount and not what the fee actually is. When I had this type of insurance the 80% for preferred providers usually turned out to be 60%We switiched to HMOs because it was more reasonable for our families and we always knew uprfront what the copays would be.

Thanks for the clarification.

I'm really glad that we've just always had it here since before I was born and I don't need to give it a second thought or factor it into any other life style decisions. I can see where so many things would be impacted by your health insurance or lack thereof.

[DearDaisyinDurham]

Thanks for the clarification.

I'm really glad that we've just always had it here since before I was born and I don't need to give it a second thought or factor it into any other life style decisions. I can see where so many things would be impacted by your health insurance or lack thereof.

Damo, love your dog pictures. Can I ask, what is Harry Potter at Islands of Adventure? Is it a ride, or a new section of the park? Sounds cool.

[minnie56]

I'm out...

We are not trying to change your mind, Ducklite. We are just as adamant in our view of our own health care here. We stand up for it as you stand up for yours.

I would not switch to your type of health care even if it meant that I would have a bigger house, more $$$ in the bank and shorter waits...I just would not, because I don't want to worry about the What IF's...

I have always appreciated how much Americans are proud of their Country, display the Flag and respect the Presidency even though they may not respect the actual President...BUT, We are so proud of our health care, it's a part of us.

Imagine that to us, Our health care is as important as your constitution, your free speech and your right to bear arms is to most Americans. You would all fight to keep those things and we would fight tooth and nail to keep our health coverage. It's just who we are as a people.

I have found health care to be the one unifying truth between all Canadian. It's not perfect but it's ours. We might disagree on Politics, religion and which hockey team is the best but we all stand by the rights of all Canadians to have health care...It's who we are. It's a CANADIAN IDENTITY...

We can't make anyone change their mind and unless you lived here, you can't really get it. It's a Canadian thing.


Well said!
For me, I will 'agree to disagree' with Ducklite and her stance.
I too 'AM OUT'!:thumbsup2

[chobie]

I'm out...

We are not trying to change your mind, Ducklite. We are just as adamant in our view of our own health care here. We stand up for it as you stand up for yours.

I would not switch to your type of health care even if it meant that I would have a bigger house, more $$$ in the bank and shorter waits...I just would not, because I don't want to worry about the What IF's...

I have always appreciated how much Americans are proud of their Country, display the Flag and respect the Presidency even though they may not respect the actual President...BUT, We are so proud of our health care, it's a part of us.

Imagine that to us, Our health care is as important as your constitution, your free speech and your right to bear arms is to most Americans. You would all fight to keep those things and we would fight tooth and nail to keep our health coverage. It's just who we are as a people.

I have found health care to be the one unifying truth between all Canadian. It's not perfect but it's ours. We might disagree on Politics, religion and which hockey team is the best but we all stand by the rights of all Canadians to have health care...It's who we are. It's a CANADIAN IDENTITY...

We can't make anyone change their mind and unless you lived here, you can't really get it. It's a Canadian thing.

I hope it becomes an American thing some day...

[damo]

Damo, love your dog pictures. Can I ask, what is Harry Potter at Islands of Adventure? Is it a ride, or a new section of the park? Sounds cool.

It is a whole new section of the park but it isn't opening until the end of 2009 beginning of 2010. Here is a link to some concept art if you are interested.

http://media.universalorlando.com/harrypotter/

[Feralpeg]

Thank you all for taking the time to explain your health care system to those of us unfamiliar with the process. I think it sounds very interesting and I really hope the US moves more in that direction in the future.

Sorry to have hijacked your thread. Canadians have a lot to be proud of.

[DearDaisyinDurham]

It is a whole new section of the park but it isn't opening until the end of 2009 beginning of 2010. Here is a link to some concept art if you are interested.

http://media.universalorlando.com/harrypotter/

Wow! Very cool, thank you. Love HP.

[digskat]

We have our insurance through DH's job. They have 13,000 employees and 7-8 plans to choose from. That's a lot of leverage with the various insurers to put their very best plan on the table at teh best possible price. If each county/parish became a buying consortium that allowed the currently un and under-insured residents to choose from 2-3 plans (more in very dense population areas) don't you think the insurers would put thier best foot forward to try to get and retain that business?

For 8 years, I toiled as a 'part-timer' at my job (worked 40+ hours per week, just no benefits or vacation), before I was promoted to full-time. During this period, I helped co-workers look into a self-funded benefits package, and was shocked to see the monthly costs. Even after pooling similar employees province wide, they costs were astronomical for the service provided. To get 80% coverage for meds, a bump from ward to semi-private, and a decent vision package, it was $200+ per month, and more if you had a family. I have been full-time for 7 years now, and get these benefits included in my package. I have had $700 billed to my holder, during this time, so I would have paid out an extra $20300 over the same period had I not received benefits from my employer, and bought myself.

There are roughly 60 000 people in my immediate area, and roughly 25 insurance companies. Auto insurance is mandatory, and each company provides a half dozen different options. We have a small fraction of the accidents in our area of Ontario, yet we pay similar rates to higher metropolitan areas. I have paid $36 000 in auto insurance over the past 20 years, without a claim, and most of my friends can say the same. These insurance companies haven't refunded us, or cut our rates drastically, because they are in the business to make money. Insurance companies aren't in the business because they want to help, but because they survive on people's fears. How will I get get by if I lose my car? What if my house burned down? They usually offer a fraction of your entitlement, with the hope you will agree to it, and then only offer up more if you are willing to fight them. Law firms across the USA and Canada make millions in cases against insurance companies, because they refuse to pay, or under value your claim.
As far as the 3% profit your holder claims to......the top ranked HMO provider in the USA is Harvard Pilgrim Health Care, a 'non-profit' corporation, that made a profit of $50M last year, after $40M/yr since 2001. Its CEO pulls in a dandy 6 figure salary each year, because he took a company that lost $200M in 1999, and in 2 years, turned them into a 'non-profit' money making machine. How did he turn them around? Increasing premiums by 12% per year over 5 years, and cutting payouts. The first person an insurance company hires when they want to increase profits.. a lawyer, the second... a banker. HPHC's CEO was a state money man.

[calgarygary]

I haven't read the entire thread so do not know if this has already been pointed out to our American friends weighing in on the topic. In 2004 the CBC ran a series in determining who was the Greatest Canadian. There were many people who received consideration such as Terry Fox, Alexander Graham Bell (we share him with the U.S. and Scotland), Sir John A. Macdonald but the clear winner is someone who most Americans would not recognize - Tommy Douglas. The man responsible for bringing universal health care to Canada was voted the Greatest Canadian. It is clear that Canadians cherish the premise that all people are deserving of health care and that the decisions regarding their health are made by themselves and doctors not accountants.

[CanadianGuy]

Thank you all for taking the time to explain your health care system to those of us unfamiliar with the process. I think it sounds very interesting and I really hope the US moves more in that direction in the future.

Sorry to have hijacked your thread. Canadians have a lot to be proud of.

Thanks Peg.

I have had the pleasure of experiencing both health care systems and see the pluses and minuses of both.

Currently - I'm back in Canada and while (thank the heavens) my health is good, it is something that I don't even worry about about up here in Canada. I know if I were take a turn for the worse, I'd be well cared for... and that's invaluable to me.

Knox

[digskat]

for the person who stated that Canadians were over-taxed (or taxed to death) partially due to UHC. For a middle class income (say $70000) we pay 22% federally, and 9% provincially (here anyway), for 31%. The USA rate for this group is 25% (28% if married and filing separate), and depending on which state there is also state income tax (Michigan is 2.6%). A Canadian from Ontario would pay $21700, while their counterpart in Michigan would pay $19320 ($21420 if filing individually). Hardly a drastic difference, and as the income increases, the separation decreases. We are relatively low, compared to many European Countries, where income tax rates can reach 60%.

[CanadianGuy]

Dig:

That's an interesting comparison but it doesn't tell the whole picture.

Our sales tax rates on everything from cars to twinkies are also much higher (pretty much double), as are the taxes on liquor and cigarettes (the sin-taxes)... also .. pretty much double.

Plus Americans can claim mortgage interest paid as a tax deduction, in fact, Americans have a LOT of tax deductions that do not apply here in Canada. Amercicans can reduce their overall tax liability thru a plethora of legal tax deductions that would really be nice to have up here.

Gotta factor all that in.

Knox

[toocherie]

If this question has been asked before I apologize--for someone who is Canadian, if they come to the United States is there health coverage while in the States if they get sick? A friend has elderly parents who live in Toronto, and he is thinking of bringing them down for the winter to stay here--but is concerned that if they get sick that they won't have coverage. Does anyone know? Is there a time limit you can stay in the States before the coverage (if it exists) would expire?

Thanks!

[PhotobearSam]

We all have to buy travel health insurance when travelling to the US.

I won't set one toe in the US without it.

We are covered by DH's plan at work (He has a plan that covers eye exam, glasses, prescriptions, physio, insert for his shoes, etc and it covers us for travel but my Gold credit card does too.

My parents are older and have had some health issues and they stay in the US for 6 months a year and it costs them about $1800 for the two of them for this insurance.

[digskat]

yes, we have the provincial sales tax and goods and service tax, but Michigan sports there own 6% sales tax, and a use tax as well. In many areas of the USA (say Florida) there is a state sales tax, as well as select county taxes (the 12% accomodation taxes for certain WDW resorts), and road tolls. We too have several rebates like the child recreation tax credit that they don't get. We get hit hard on alcohol and tobacco, but the prices of many other things are creeping closer together.
Add to this, our median household income is $53,528, compared to $48,000 in the USA (as per Wikipedia). I'm just saying, we aren't that much different in an economic comparison, and our tax dollar includes a UHC, road maintenance, etc. This is a common misconception about our country, that is protrayed every time the Raptors/Jays attempt to sign a free agent. "Don't go there you'll be taxed to death", yet our top bracket is lower than many American states. Having a UHC alone gives us a better bang for the buck, at least in my eyes.

[PhotobearSam]

Here is another thread on the community board that makes the case for a UHC...


http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1712637


Yes, I've thought about that too. We have Blue Cross/Blue Shield. I'm just so tired of them raising our rates every year, plus now raising them just because we're in a new "age bracket." I'm sure they will raise it again in August when it's our policy anniversary. We were paying approximately $1578every quarter (for the two of us) and this time they want $1970. What are they going to want in August? I know ours is cheaper than some, but more expensive than others. Just makes me mad they can charge so


That is OVER $6000 a year...Insane. I pay taxes but I don't pay this amount just for health care unless the get a lot of it from taxes on merchandise...

This is the MAIN reason I love our health care. When someone gets older and they raise the rates, some must drop their insurance...We tend to care more for the elderly around here.