Copyright infrigement...Now what do I do? Little bit of an update.

[Tuffcookie]

Remember when I told ya'll that AT & T wanted to use my photos of our city's Mum Festival for the Yellow Pages cover? Well, I gave permission on the condition that I got an acknowledgement of said pictures.
Today, I got a copy of the new phone book and not a mention anywhere. I have sent an e-mail to the AT & T person responsible for the publishing of the phone book so I am now waiting to hear back from her.
What would you do under these circumstances? I never asked for any monetary reimbursement, only recognition.:confused:


TC:cool1:

[JR6ooo4]

Did you specify where or how that reccognition(sp) was to be awarded?

If not then all they had to say is "tuffcookie" took this picture to anyone in the office.

Mikeeee

[Tuffcookie]

mikeeee,
This is all new to me. Shouldn't they have had me sign a release?

TC:cool1:

[rtphokie]

Remember when I told ya'll that AT & T wanted to use my photos of our city's Mum Festival for the Yellow Pages cover? Well, I gave permission on the condition that I got an acknowledgment of said pictures.
Today, I got a copy of the new phone book and not a mention anywhere. I have sent an e-mail to the AT & T person responsible for the publishing of the phone book so I am now waiting to hear back from her.
What would you do under these circumstances? I never asked for any monetary reimbursement, only recognition.:confused:


TC:cool1:

Wait to hear back from them for a few days. They might just surprise you. But if you dont hear anything...

Then send them a certified letter. Remind them of your original agreement. Include copies of any emails or paperwork you have from them requesting permission to use your photographs and your responses. It doesn't matter that you did not originally ask to be paid, you had an agreement and they broke it, it's time for a new agreement. If your documentation of your original agreement is solid, most big companies would rather pay a couple hundred bucks to make their screw up go away

http://www.editorialphoto.com can give you some ideas on what to charge.

I'd consider asking for $500 under the circumstances.

[JR6ooo4]

mikeeee,
This is all new to me. Shouldn't they have had me sign a release?

TC:cool1:

I have never sold a pic, but I do write contracts for my work. I agree, I would have expected further communication before they used your pic.

Hey maybe you can get a free phone book out of the deal??? heheheheee


Mikeeee

[crazydadguy]

Wait to hear back from them for a few days. They might just surprise you. But if you dont hear anything...

Then send them a certified letter. Remind them of your original agreement. Include copies of any emails or paperwork you have from them requesting permission to use your photographs and your responses. It doesn't matter that you did not originally ask to be paid, you had an agreement and they broke it, it's time for a new agreement. If your documentation of your original agreement is solid, most big companies would rather pay a couple hundred bucks to make their screw up go away

http://www.editorialphoto.com can give you some ideas on what to charge.

I'd consider asking for $500 under the circumstances.

Dude that is an awesome website!! Im reading through the information there now, really good stuff!

[seashoreCM]

OT: Phone book screwups are not unheard of.

There have been recorded instances of phone book publishing companies putting some direct competitor's phone number in the big yellow page ad or spread you bought!

The only thing the phone company had offered was a refund of the cost of the ad.

Disney hints: http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

[crazydadguy]

Tuffcookie, have you heard anything from the Phonebook company yet?

[bostran1]

If I were in this situation I would send them a letter, certified mail, return receipt. I would send this letter to the top-tier people in the phone book company (if you can find them). I'm talking presidents, vice-presidents, heads of marketing, etc. In the letter, explain the situation, the agreement you had with the company and provide copies of any communications evidencing this agreement. Then be specific with what you want. It looks like the time for any acknowledgment in the book itself is past so you may want to seek monetary resolution. The important thing is to not use to many legal terms. If they completely ignore talk with a lawyer (ideally a friend who can just send out a letter on letterhead). Often with something that small, that is all it takes.

Good luck!

PS I would not be surprised if an email went ignored. Often, sending the certified letters, return receipt (so you know who got it) will get the problem noticed by someone in a position to do something about the problem.

[Tuffcookie]

I haven't heard anything from my e-mail yet, but I sent it from the office just before leaving yesterday.
I will give the lady I sent it to, a couple of days to respond. I will let you know the outcome of what transpires.
Thanks for all your help!:)

TC:cool1:

[SharonLowe]

Remember when I told ya'll that AT & T wanted to use my photos of our city's Mum Festival for the Yellow Pages cover? Well, I gave permission on the condition that I got an acknowledgement of said pictures.
Today, I got a copy of the new phone book and not a mention anywhere. I have sent an e-mail to the AT & T person responsible for the publishing of the phone book so I am now waiting to hear back from her.
What would you do under these circumstances? I never asked for any monetary reimbursement, only recognition.:confused:


TC:cool1:

In reality, you would be better protected if you had made them pay for it. Why should a big company like AT&T get to use your photos for free?? They have plenty of money to pay for them. Since they didn't even give you credit, I would now be demanding payment from them. A front cover image would cost them probably $1000 depending on how many they printed.

While it is flattering to be asked to do these things, I wish people would stop giving their photos away. At this point, I highly doubt you will get very far because they also have plenty of money to pay their lawyers. I wish you luck but in the future, insist on payment and research the issue before you quote a price - just go to a stock agency web site and you can plug in information to give you an estimate of the price.

[Tuffcookie]

This morning I had a reply from the lady from AT & T. Her title, by the way, is Regional Marketing Manager.

Here is her e-mail:
I apologize for the omission. I do not recall being given your name by ***** to add as a photo credit. Unfortunately at this point, the books are printed and a correction cannot be made.
If you would choose to submit photos for the next issue (January 09), I would be happy to put a photo credit on the cover photo itself as we did on the Akron directory. We will begin work on the 09 cover around September and I will probably be back in touch with ******.
Again, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Sincerely,
******

Upon reading that I answering the following:

******, Thanks for your response. However, I must state again, my conditions for use of the photos was acknowledgement of the photos. Since those conditions were not and cannot be met, I feel it is fair and reasonable to expect monetary reimbursement. A total of 5 pictures were used. Therefore, I am requesting $500 for the use of my photos.

Well, the ball is in her court now...;)

TC:cool1:

[safetymom]

Why would they think they could have the photo for free with no acknowledgement of the photographer? I think her answer is pretty lame.

[DVC Jen]

Did you sign anything giving them permission to use your photos? That could have considerable influence over the outcome.

Good-luck. I really hope they do right by you.

[Tuffcookie]

Did you sign anything giving them permission to use your photos? That could have considerable influence over the outcome.

Nothing! I can't believe someone with the title of Regional Marketing Manager would not have secured some sort of release and the last time I checked AT & T was in the business of making money so I am going to remain firm that I am reimbursed!:)

TC:cool1:

[SharonLowe]

Did you sign anything giving them permission to use your photos? That could have considerable influence over the outcome.

Nothing! I can't believe someone with the title of Regional Marketing Manager would not have secured some sort of release and the last time I checked AT & T was in the business of making money so I am going to remain firm that I am reimbursed!:)

TC:cool1:

How did they get your photos? If you just handed them over or sent a CD, you gave them all the permission they needed to use them. You should have insisted on something in writing. I think you will be hard-pressed to get them to pay but it might work.

To anyone who reads this thread, don't let this happen to you. Get agreements in writing and make them pay for your photos!

[MICKEY88]

How did they get your photos? If you just handed them over or sent a CD, you gave them all the permission they needed to use them. You should have insisted on something in writing. I think you will be hard-pressed to get them to pay but it might work.

To anyone who reads this thread, don't let this happen to you. Get agreements in writing and make them pay for your photos!

I respectfully disagree with this, you can hand cds of pics to anyone you want, that doesn't grant them the rights to print/publish, or profit from those photos..


photographers often give discs{digital proofs} to people so they can choose the shots they want to buy, or get the rights to..

[Tuffcookie]

Sharon,

At work we have a "shared file" on our computer server, so others can view reports, documents, photos, etc. These photos were taken with my own equipment, on my own time and I posted them there for other city employees to enjoy. Could AT & T argue that, because they were posted publicly, they were availlable for their own personal use? I don't know what they will try to say.:confused3

TC:cool1:

[MICKEY88]

Sharon,

At work we have a "shared file" on our computer server, so others can view reports, documents, photos, etc. These photos were taken with my own equipment, on my own time and I posted them there for other city employees to enjoy. Could AT & T argue that, because they were posted publicly, they were availlable for their own personal use? I don't know what they will try to say.:confused3

TC:cool1:

do you have a written computer policy, some companies have one stating that anything on their computers is their property..

[Tuffcookie]

I am not aware of any computer policy our city has. We really are not that big!;)

In the past, I have been commissioned to reproduce some of my photos and matte and frame them as retirement gifts for employees. I have given my photos on a cd for them to select the photos they wanted, so I agree with Mickey88 that that is not consent for them to do with the photos what they please.

TC:cool1:

[jann1033]

so even if you gave them a cd and had the conversation about the credit,you would still assume that wasn't giving permission to print them? not saying it is but it would seem to me that would have been the implication.....it seems odd to me that they wouldn't have had you sign something about what you would receive but i'll tell you what an attorney told us..."a contract is only as good as the 2 parties it's between",,,if someone doesn't want to pay up with a contract you can't really force them( small claims only says they have to pay and unless it's a big enough amount you pay more in fees to pursue it, been there, not doing that again;) ) so i think you'd be up a creek without a contract. meanwhile, i might head to the library and see if they have a barberton phone book:)

[SharonLowe]

I respectfully disagree with this, you can hand cds of pics to anyone you want, that doesn't grant them the rights to print/publish, or profit from those photos..


photographers often give discs{digital proofs} to people so they can choose the shots they want to buy, or get the rights to..

Any disc I hand out comes with my copyright notice and very detailed information stating they are not allowed to print, etc. I also use computer printable CDs/DVDs so my copyright is on the disc itself in case someone tries to take it to Walmart. Also, the proofs are low enough resolution that they would not make good prints. Finally, all my clients sign a contract so we both know what we can and cannot do with the photos.

On the other hand, she was asked to provide her photos for publishing and she did, in whatever form. That to me counts as giving permission.

[SharonLowe]

Sharon,

At work we have a "shared file" on our computer server, so others can view reports, documents, photos, etc. These photos were taken with my own equipment, on my own time and I posted them there for other city employees to enjoy. Could AT & T argue that, because they were posted publicly, they were availlable for their own personal use? I don't know what they will try to say.:confused3

TC:cool1:

No, but you gave them the photos to use and you spoke to them. That is where they can say you authorized them to use them. And unfortunately, you did not get anything in writing so it is your word against theirs. A judge might rule on your side because he/she could feel AT&T took advantage of you, but without a contract, the opinion could go the other way.

[MICKEY88]

Any disc I hand out comes with my copyright notice and very detailed information stating they are not allowed to print, etc. I also use computer printable CDs/DVDs so my copyright is on the disc itself in case someone tries to take it to Walmart. Also, the proofs are low enough resolution that they would not make good prints. Finally, all my clients sign a contract so we both know what we can and cannot do with the photos.

On the other hand, she was asked to provide her photos for publishing and she did, in whatever form. That to me counts as giving permission.

all good measures, however anyone with half a clue would upload to walmart rather than taking the disk into the store...


after rereading the reply from ATT, I think the OP has a good case, they acknowledge giving photo credits in other cases, that shows that they are clearly aware of what should have been done, and rather than asking for the info, they went ahead with publishing, any judge worth his or her gavel would rule against the corporate monster..
they admit making a mistake, therefore they should pay for it..

[SharonLowe]

all good measures, however anyone with half a clue would upload to walmart rather than taking the disk into the store...




I forgot to add, all my proofs are watermarked too so no luck in uploading either.

[MICKEY88]

I forgot to add, all my proofs are watermarked too so no luck in uploading either.
:thumbsup2 :thumbsup2

[Tuffcookie]

Sharon, Thanks for all your input. I really do appreciate it. Sometimes I will post things here and then others will share their experiences/knowledge...things a layperson, such as myself, would not even think about.
I will give A T & T a week to respond to my last e-mail. I know a lawyer that will send a "friendly" letter to them asking for payment.
Now, all I have to do is get actual names and addresses of who to send my letter(s) to. Being it's the phone company and it's so easy to talk to a real person there:sad2: , that should be a trip!

TC:cool1:

[MICKEY88]

Sharon, Thanks for all your input. I really do appreciate it. Sometimes I will post things here and then others will share their experiences/knowledge...things a layperson, such as myself, would not even think about.
I will give A T & T a week to respond to my last e-mail. I know a lawyer that will send a "friendly" letter to them asking for payment.
Now, all I have to do is get actual names and addresses of who to send my letter(s) to. Being it's the phone company and it's so easy to talk to a real person there:sad2: , that should be a trip!

TC:cool1:

one question who is ***** that the ATT person references, if she gave them the disk for you and told them they could use them, pushing the issue could jeopardize her job if she is the one that messed up

[jann1033]

i looked at my lake/geauga at&t book and no place is there any acknowledgment as to who took the cover photo and i do not think it's a stock photo as it is a local park and doesn't look like it's a pro photo, same with another local shot, local book,...so not sure that is "routinely" done by at&t or some other places...windstream on the other hand has a local photo with acknowledgment in side the front cover

[MICKEY88]

i looked at my lake/geauga at&t book and no place is there any acknowledgment as to who took the cover photo and i do not think it's a stock photo as it is a local park and doesn't look like it's a pro photo, same with another local shot, local book,...so not sure that is "routinely" done by at&t or some other places...windstream on the other hand has a local photo with acknowledgment in side the front cover

it may be a regional thing. or in some cases they may just get pics from employees that are happy to have their pics published and don't request recognition,

however...

in this case the ATT person mentioned giving photo credit in another case, so they were aware of such a thing..


If you would choose to submit photos for the next issue (January 09), I would be happy to put a photo credit on the cover photo itself as we did on the Akron directory.

[MICKEY88]

Sharon, Thanks for all your input. I really do appreciate it. Sometimes I will post things here and then others will share their experiences/knowledge...things a layperson, such as myself, would not even think about.
I will give A T & T a week to respond to my last e-mail. I know a lawyer that will send a "friendly" letter to them asking for payment.
Now, all I have to do is get actual names and addresses of who to send my letter(s) to. Being it's the phone company and it's so easy to talk to a real person there:sad2: , that should be a trip!

TC:cool1:

in addition to all the great advice from Sharon, I would ad another thought, in the future in addition to getting a contract, be specific with a contract, such as granting one time usage rights... as opposed to just giving them the right to use the pics.... that way they can only use them for one year, if they want to use them in another year they would have to pay again...

I would watermark my pics with the credit I want and tell them the pics must be published with that on them..

[Tuffcookie]

I checked with our law dept and human resource dept today and there is no policy on shared files thru the cities' computer server.

The lady at our city building that told AT & T they could use them, told me, in her e-mail, that she told AT & T I wanted an acknowledged for the pictures. I believe her and she is such a valuable and well-liked employee she would not lose her job over this. However, the Regional Marketing Manager, IMHO, should have gotten written permission.

TC:cool1:

[steery1]

Tuffcookie, hope you get sorted out with your payment for your work. :thumbsup2
Any chance of a link to where I can view these pics? :)

[Tuffcookie]

steery1, I bumped my original thread to the first page of photography board for you.

TC:cool1:

[steery1]

Thanks Tuffcookie. :thumbsup2

I see why they wanted them and well worth at least the $500. :)

[Tuffcookie]

Thanks!:goodvibes

[jann1033]

it may be a regional thing....

that was the point i was trying to make:rotfl: barberton isn't that far away from me so it could be the acknowledgment isn't common with them here, and why no one would have caught nothing was signed etc...weird way to do business but....

[MICKEY88]

that was the point i was trying to make:rotfl: barberton isn't that far away from me so it could be the acknowledgment isn't common with them here, and why no one would have caught nothing was signed etc...weird way to do business but....


you missed the other part of my post, the ATT person said they gave credit for another directory, so they are obviously familiar with the concept, why would they not ask rather than assuming no credit was due..:confused3 :confused3

[Tuffcookie]

No word from the AT & T lady.

For what it's worth, I have put together a very nice letter, stating the facts as they happened. I attached a copy of all the e-mails that transpired between myself, the City computer person, and the AT & T Regional Marketing Manager. I enclosed a copy of the new 2008 phone directory with my pictures on the cover and politely requested payment for the photos that were used. I will send these items out certified mail to AT & T's Executive Office in Indianapolis, IN (I did finally find an address) tomorrow and see what happens!

If I do not hear anything, I will take 10 deep cleansing breaths and let it go.
(After that I will cancel my AT & T phone service and sign up with Time/Warner cable!;) )

TC:cool1:

[Tuffcookie]

bumping.

[Mckymousefn]

Did you hear anything back after sending in all that info to AT &T?

[Tuffcookie]

Mckymousefn,

Yes! I posted the follow-up in another thread.

I was contacted by the Assistant to the President of AT & T!:)

We hammered out an agreement for payment for the use of my photos on the phone book cover. I got $250 for the use of my photos PLUS, she made a note that I get the cover of next year's phone book with an acknowledgement!

I'm sure the regional manager is going to be thrilled to work with me in the Fall on the new cover!:rotfl:

Thanks for asking!

TC:cool1:

[Olaf]

Good for you and congratulations. :thumbsup2

[Mckymousefn]

At least you got something out of it. Shouldn't have had to go through with all that if they would have stuck to the agreement... but at least you are getting some $ and the credit you deserve.

Congrats!