HD/Blu Ray Camcorder Questions- HELP!

[everylastbreath]

I am thinking about getting my son a camcorder for christmas, and he is very cutting edge when it comes to electronics, since he is getting married next year and he and his future wife take really great vacations (last one was a cruise to Alaska) thought a great camcorder would be a good idea. Need help please anyone who knows anything about these things, Would like to stay around the $1000 Mark, willing to go a little extra for something great, would also like to get him the CD burner (if it's really needed?) Don't know anything about MP/HD/Blu Ray - Someone who is experienced please help me find a good one, hate to ask the kid at Best Buy:confused3 , who doesn't really know! Tell me is the HD/Blu Ray a good idea? My son is like I said "cutting edge". Thanks!!!

[DizneyNutz]

HD vs. Blu Ray is a battle going on in the industry that will probably still be going on for the next few years. The question is which way is he leaning, because he has to make a preference choice as far as his electronics that will play either format properly. For example HD movies/video does not play on a Blu Ray dvd player and vice versus. So you need to find out if he already has a dvd player geared one way or the other. As far as a cd burner, these are pretty much included in a standard computer nowadays if he has a elatively new computer, but I would reccommend a CD/DVD burner when it comes to dealing with video files. Video takes up substantionally more disk space than photos, so he will probably need to record to DVDs. They are relatively inexpensive for a burner that will burn cds and dvds.:thumbsup2

[bostran1]

yikes. I am usually pretty up to date on these things but I had no idea that they made HD DVD or Bluray camcorders. You could also get him a high-end DV camera. With enough hard drive space and a top-of-the-line computer I am sure tour son will get even better results.

I wish someone would get me present like that for my wedding!

[MarkBarbieri]

I don't think that they make HD-DVD or Blu-Ray camcorders yet. There are high definition (HD) camcorders, but those record in either HDV or AVCHD formats.

I would strongly recommend a High Definition video camera if you can afford it. If your son is into electronics, chances are good that he is used to watching high definition TV and movies. Once you've grown accustomed to the higher resolution, going back to standard definition is painful.

I think the best options for low cost HD camcorders are the Canon HV20 (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-HV20-Camcorder-Review.htm) ($800 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/481076-REG/Canon_2059B001_HV20_2_96MP_CMOS_HDV.html)) and the Sony HDR-HC7 (http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-HDR-HC7-Camcorder-Review.htm) ($1,000 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/475452-REG/Sony_HDRHC7_HDR_HC7_1080i_HDV_Camcorder.html)).

[DizneyNutz]

yikes. I am usually pretty up to date on these things but I had no idea that they made HD DVD or Bluray camcorders. You could also get him a high-end DV camera. With enough hard drive space and a top-of-the-line computer I am sure tour son will get even better results.

I wish someone would get me present like that for my wedding!

HD vs BLU RAY. The industry is competing over which is the best medium. Many of your favorite movie companies have already chosen sides. To see your favorite movies in the best definition, you are forced to choose between the two, if you want a DVD player that will play it in that format. They seem to to be split as of now, but I believe Disney has chosen Blu Ray.:headache: I went HD.:confused3 So who knows what will be the industry leader in the next couple of years.:confused3 I wish as a consumer they would make up their minds, so I could get the equipment necessary for the best viewing pleasure.:thumbsup2

[bostran1]

HD vs BLU RAY. The industry is competing over which is the best medium. Many of your favorite movie companies have already chosen sides. To see your favorite movies in the best definition, you are forced to choose between the two, if you want a DVD player that will play it in that format. They seem to to be split as of now, but I believe Disney has chosen Blu Ray.:headache: I went HD.:confused3 So who knows what will be the industry leader in the next couple of years.:confused3 I wish as a consumer they would make up their minds, so I could get the equipment necessary for the best viewing pleasure.:thumbsup2

Oh, I am fully aware of the HD v. Blu-ray debate. There are actually players that can play both HD DVD and Blu-ray discs ( believe from Samsung and LG at least). I was just confused by the original poster's question of HD DVD and Blu-ray camcorders. I think I misread it.

Anyway, I agree with Mark's post. An HDV recorder is probably the best way to go. But to take full advantage of DV, you need a ton of hard drive space and a strong processor inside your computer.

[dburg30]

I :love: my HV20. Watching the HD version of our beach trip vacation on my big screen HDTV at night so you dont have to see any more of the 'real world' really takes me right back to the beach.. It's VERY sharp, VERY clear, and VERY nice to watch (well, it got better as the week went on and I got less 'jittery' ) :D

[everylastbreath]

OK, now I am more confused, am I understanding this correctly, it is almost like the VHS/Beta debate of years ago? I thought Blu Ray was the new HD? I know he has both a Blu Ray DVD player and an HD LCD TV. And to the person who questions if they even made Blu Ray Camcorders (Hitachi DZBD7HA Blu-Ray Disc Hybrid w/30GB HDD) - What I was concerned about with Blu Ray is can you burn a DVD in Blu Ray without some special attachment or burner? and the same w/HD? Also I see camcorders now come with hard drives, should I be looking for the highest number HD, or do they use memory sticks/mini DVDs? How about MP, I see they are mostly pretty low 2.0? is that the same as a digital camera, should it be high, 7-8.0? Please tell me what features I should be looking for, and if possible recommend a specific camcorder you would recommend as a good one. Thank you so much for helping, I don't want to spend this much on something and have it be a piece of junk.

[dburg30]

Nope there is High Def TV... HDTV, what we're most familiar with. THEN there are 2 'high def video discs' out. HD-DVD and Blu-ray.. Blu-Ray is Sony's baby. It's also what Disney appears to have picked (bummer as I really dont care for some of the stuff Sony's done).

The mini DVD, hard drive, tape, card discussion will get a lot of different answers from folks. drive ones will be quicker to transfer, and they are able to be erased, dunno about the DVD's, mem sticks of course usually you dont get as much storage of course (ie: a 30 gig hard drive, going to be hard to find a 30 gig memory stick :) ) Mini-DV tapes a lot of folks think are the best because they use less compression (I think that's how it goes).

This may be one of those times that you may need to 'spoil' the suprise somewhat, and try to get them what they really want as opposed to trying to figure out what they want :).

[DizneyNutz]

OK, now I am more confused, am I understanding this correctly, it is almost like the VHS/Beta debate of years ago? I thought Blu Ray was the new HD? I know he has both a Blu Ray DVD player and an HD LCD TV. And to the person who questions if they even made Blu Ray Camcorders (Hitachi DZBD7HA Blu-Ray Disc Hybrid w/30GB HDD) - What I was concerned about with Blu Ray is can you burn a DVD in Blu Ray without some special attachment or burner? and the same w/HD? Also I see camcorders now come with hard drives, should I be looking for the highest number HD, or do they use memory sticks/mini DVDs? How about MP, I see they are mostly pretty low 2.0? is that the same as a digital camera, should it be high, 7-8.0? Please tell me what features I should be looking for, and if possible recommend a specific camcorder you would recommend as a good one. Thank you so much for helping, I don't want to spend this much on something and have it be a piece of junk.

Yes it is like the Beta/ VHS debate, but that doesn't matter now , because you have answered the question. If he has Blu Ray Player make sure if you are buying the recorder that it is compatible with that format. Yes he will most likely need a DVD burner if he doesn't already have one and it usually takes some software for editing high def video. I have Pinnacle Studio 10 for working with files from my HD video cam, but not really pleased with it, so I would recommend looking around a bit.:thumbsup2

[dburg30]

Have you checked out version 11 of Studio? I've tried most of the programs, and I seemed to like that one, or at least it's the one I'm using now. Maybe some of the others I'm just not smart enough to figure out :lmao:

[everylastbreath]

Yes he will most likely need a DVD burner if he doesn't already have one and it usually takes some software for editing high def video. I have Pinnacle Studio 10 for working with files from my HD video cam, but not really pleased with it, so I would recommend looking around a bit.:thumbsup2

So he can use an ordinary DVD burner to burn a blu ray or HD disc? I thought it would be a special burner?

So I should go for a camcorder with a hard drive (largest is better?) What about the MP? high?

[DizneyNutz]

So he can use an ordinary DVD burner to burn a blu ray or HD disc? I thought it would be a special burner?

So I should go for a camcorder with a hard drive (largest is better?) What about the MP? high?

I am sure you are starting to get frustrated with this and I apologize! The DVD burner does not care what it is burning to the DVD. It burns what it is told to.:thumbsup2 That being said I am not familiar enough with BLU Ray to tell you what software to use to edit or process the video to send to the DVD burner so that it is compatible with a Blu Ray DVD player? I have never dealt with that format. You are are on right track, and keep plugging along and I am sure someone who is familiar with Blu Ray will jump in. The megapixels relate more to a still photo taken with the video camera, which is not it's real intent. I have the Sony HDR HC3 and I am very happy with the video it produces and it has less than 2mp still photo capability.

[bostran1]

So he can use an ordinary DVD burner to burn a blu ray or HD disc? I thought it would be a special burner?

So I should go for a camcorder with a hard drive (largest is better?) What about the MP? high?

Unfortunately, a traditional DVD burner will not be able to burn Blue-ray or HD DVD. There really are three types of DVDs burners for all intents and purposes (normal 4+ gigabyte aka single layer DVd burners, 8+ gigabyte aka dual-layer DVD burners, and High definition burners aka Blu-ray or HD DVD burners). I am not very familiar with the hard drive camcorders but if your son wants something that is top of the line, I would go with any of the HDV camcorders. They are digital, high definition camcorders that record on DV tape.

As for betamax v. vhs and Blu-ray v. HD DVD, you are exactly right. The competing formats are entirely analogous. However, the media is so similar that some players can play both formats. We can talk about the pros and cons about each format until our eyes bleed (like the Nikon v. Canon v. Sony v. Olympus v. Pentax debate) and not reach an answer. However, Blu-ray discs hold more data (more gigs) than HD DVD. If your son has a Blu-ray player (or a Playstation 3), you are better off making sure he has computer software that can process and burn HD video to Blu-ray discs and a Blu-ray DVD burner (not a normal single or dual-layer DVD burner).

Unforunately, I use a Mac so the software I am familiar with (iMovie, Final Cut, iDVD) all support HD video and I can't speak to Windows HD video software.

The big thing to remember is that HD is different from HD DVD.

[DizneyNutz]

I am not sure if the info I gave you on the DVD burner not caring was correct upon seeing the post below. It uses a different medium. Sorry but you are dealing with technology that is on the cutting edge, and I am not familiar with. Trying to help, but I don't honestly know your answer.:confused3
http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_formats

Honestly your son seems to be in touch with the the technology he has chosen, I would involve him in your decision. Even though it won't surprise him, he would probably much rather enjoy a product of this magnitude that he had a say so in!!!

[everylastbreath]

I am starting to get it (a little anyway), someone explain to me the diff. between HD and HD DVD? Also what exactly should I look for with a good one? What is really important? What questions should I ask? Thanks again for all your help.

[bostran1]

I am not sure if the info I gave you on the DVD burner not caring was correct upon seeing the post below. It uses a different medium. Sorry but you are dealing with technology that is on the cutting edge, and I am not familiar with. Trying to help, but I don't honestly know your answer.:confused3
http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_formats

Honestly your son seems to be in touch with the the technology he has chosen, I would involve him in your decision. Even though it won't surprise him, he would probably much rather enjoy a product of this magnitude that he had a say so in!!!

DisneyNutz, you are right. There are the standard, single layer (DVD+R and/or DVD-R) burners, dual-layer DVD burners, and Blu-ray and HD DVD burners. The single layer DVD drives hold the least amount of information, the dual-layer are in the middle (the same size DVDs used in commercial DVD sales as we have known them), the HD DVD holds the next largest amount, and Blu-ray holds the most. I won't argue whether HD DVD or Blu-ray is the highest quality but Blu-ray holds the most data of the two.

[bostran1]

I am starting to get it (a little anyway), someone explain to me the diff. between HD and HD DVD? Also what exactly should I look for with a good one? What is really important? What questions should I ask? Thanks again for all your help.

I do not know how to find a good HD DVD or Blu-ray burner. Sorry.

I can give a shot at explain the difference between HD and HD DVD though.

HD is high definition. That is what you are getting you buy a widescreen LCD, plasma, or DLP TV (there are other options for HD TV though). Anyway, HD just means high-def, the new standard in programming.

HD DVD and Blu-ray are high-def DVD formats. That means the picture quality in HD DVD and Blu-ray DVDs is better than the standard DVD that we are all used to. However, HD DVD and Blu-ray each require special DVD players (the DVD you have now will not be able to play either new high-def format).

So, HD is the standard term for high-definition programming, whether that be TV or DVD (HD DVD or Blu-ray only). HD DVD is a type of high-def DVD.

I hope that helps!!

[Groucho]

There are BluRay and HD-DVD burners for the PCs. But they're fairly expensive, several hundred dollars.

You most certainly can burn HD content to a DVD. Just not very much of it.

As Mark says, BluRay/HD-DVD doesn't matter when choosing a high-def camcorder. I am not familiar with the current crop of them, but from what I know about high-def in general, I would not buy something that wasn't either 1280x720 or 1920x1080 - anything else is not "correct" HD. (Just like I wouldn't buy one of those 1366x768 TVs, which will have to resize all HD that you show on them.)

As for BluRay vs HD-DVD, I'm happy to report that BluRay is outselling HD-DVD by about 2:1 as of October, and it was just announced that in Europe that it's winning by 3:1. Why am I happy? First off, two standards is a mess (duh). Second, BluRay gives you more space - 25 gigs for a single layer vs 20 on the HD-DVD. That's enough to fit an entire single-layer DVD extra and still have room to spare on the disc. Currently, I think nearly all (if not all) movies released in both formats are bit-for-bit identical, so generally both will give you identical quality at this point. The sooner HD-DVD dies off and we get to a single format, the better it'll be for consumers and content producers, IMHO. (Apologies to those who own HD-DVD players.)

[everylastbreath]

OK, I got the format thing down, now- questions- What is the benefit of buying an HD/blu ray camcorder- if he cannot burn the cd to watch his video without investing several hundred to get the correct burner? Could he plug the video camera directly into the blu ray player and play it that way? (same for HD) Also how much filming can the HD hold? let's say 60G (which seems to be the ones I am looking at) Do they also hold memory sticks in case you run out of room (I would hate for him to be on vacation and the camera be useless because there is no more space to record). Does anyone have one they can recommend (around $1000 mark), I would be willing to go $500 for a burner, but I hestiate because if you guys don't know of one, they might not even exisit yet, which means the electronic industry is once again selling something that does not have the technical support as of yet, am I getting too far ahead of myself? Just want to get them something that will be the best.

[DizneyNutz]

See link below. I just can't make you a recommendation because I am not familiar with any of them.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?DEPA=0&type=&Description=Blu-Ray+burner&Submit=ENE&N=0&Ntk=all&CMP=KNC-GoogleAdwords&ATT=OpticalDrives

Also unless I am sorely mistaken, the camera you mentioned (Hitachi) burns straight to a Blu ray disk itself, so your son would just pop it out of camera and into his Blu Ray player but this doesn't allow for editing. See link below.

http://av.hitachi.com/camcorder/blu-ray/index.html

[webshark3]

There is a blu-ray camcoder, and it is best to stay away right now:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Hitachi-DZ-BD7HA-Camcorder-Review-33581.htm

And before commiting to HD-DVD or blu-ray, Blockbuster should give you a hint as to the future: they see video downloads as their future, with a reduced/no need for stores. They even bought a movie download serivce. Americans already prefer their DVRs to anything else. If all this continues, then HD discs may have a small future (they'll be around, just won't dominate).

I personally still prefer HDV (tape). It's at least archivable, and can be transferrred to any dominant format in the future.

[dburg30]

OK, I got the format thing down, now- questions- What is the benefit of buying an HD/blu ray camcorder- if he cannot burn the cd to watch his video without investing several hundred to get the correct burner?

Well, the simple answer to this was brought up in your first post. Something about liking to have cutting edge technology :).

Also, lots of people can now hook up their computers to their HDTV's OR you can watch the raw HD footage right out of the camera. I'm also not sure that you cant edit stuff then 'reload' it to a tape or harddrive camera and play it that way. Now that last part I do NOT know if that's possible or not. But I do know the other 2 (hooking computer up or playing straight from camera) are for sure both possible.

LOL, now that brings up one more thing, that's assuming your computer is set up with the proper video card and stuff to output the HD signal :)

See, so much fun on this newer stuff :). I personally still feel like I did in my first post (think it was my first one). That is to get him involved in the purchase somehow. I'm a geek. Just built my new computer, has a top of the line video card, TV tuner, etc, have it hooked up to my HDTV for just this reason (Canon HV20 HD vid camera). Using Vista and the media center built into it, it's just slick to be able to watch all my edited HD video right off the computer on my 52" HD TV :goodvibes :love:

[dburg30]

There is a blu-ray camcoder, and it is best to stay away right now:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Hitachi-DZ-BD7HA-Camcorder-Review-33581.htm

And before commiting to HD-DVD or blu-ray, Blockbuster should give you a hint as to the future: they see video downloads as their future, with a reduced/no need for stores. They even bought a movie download serivce. Americans already prefer their DVRs to anything else. If all this continues, then HD discs may have a small future (they'll be around, just won't dominate).

I personally still prefer HDV (tape). It's at least archivable, and can be transferrred to any dominant format in the future.

Wow, yea, run from that one, although I guess someone needed to start something. Not a very good review at all. When your shiny new $1600 camera gets compared to $300 cameras, that's a bad thing.

And this statement amazed me, I had no idea companies still did this..

Hitachi supplies the shooter with a thin battery-shaped DC adapter that fits in — you guessed it — the battery chamber. You cannot charge the battery while the camcorder is plugged into the external power source

[MarkBarbieri]

I would not buy something that wasn't either 1280x720 or 1920x1080

I think it would be a mistake to ignore the large number of very good HD camcorders, which shoot in 1440x01080. That's pretty much the standard for HDV shooting. It scales nicely to 1920x1080 with the replication of every 3rd horizontal pixel or to 1280x720 by dropping every 9th horizontal pixel. In quality tests I've seen, there is a much larger difference in image quality between 1440x1080 vs 1920x1080 camcorders associated with sensors (3x vs 1x), lenses, codecs and bitrates. I certainly can't see any advantage of 1280x720 over 1440x1080, except maybe smaller file sizes.

In general, I think the 1440x1080 vs 1920x1080 debate is about as meaningful as the 6mp vs 8mp debate was. There is a theoretical difference, but it's not something that you'll notice in real world usage.


As for HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray debate, I would ignore it for camcorders. There aren't any camcorders that capture directly to either format that you actually want. Besides, just about anyone serious enough to drop $1,000 on an HD camcorder is likely to also be serious enough to at least minimally edit their footage. If that's the cast, then the capture and playback formats need not be the same.

At the moment HDV and AVCHD are the two dominant HD video formats. AVCHD has some theoretical advantages but so far the HDV camcorders seem to have better real world performance. Honestly, neither are perfect but both are serviceable. AVCHD will put higher demands on a typical computer today.

As a word of caution, I use a beefy computer (quad core, 4 gig of RAM, RAID 0 drives) and I am amazed at how long encoding HD takes on it. With some basic processing, you can easily be looking at 6 to 1 or longer for encoding time vs playback time. I do my shooting in HD and do most of my rendering to SD DVD for now. I'll still have the HD footage when I want to go back and play with it later. For now, I'm usually more interested in the shorter rendering time and in the ease of universal DVD distribution.

[webshark3]

I just bought a Aiptek A-HD for $120. for the price, pretty nice 720P. :)

I wouldn't even rule out 720P camcorders. MPEG compression annoys me more than resolution.

[garate55]

First of all I have a Sony HDR-HC3 and I love it. It is a mini-dv hd camera. I wouldn't recommend Sony if your son is a huge techie, unless he wants to buy just Sony products. Sony has a bad habit of making all of their equipment proprietery, which means buy Sony use Sony(to a certain point).

I recently purchased an adapter for my Sony that allows me to attach an external microphone of my choice that uses an 1/8" plug.

I do love my camera and there are several cameras to choose from:

Sony HDR-HC3
Sony HDR-HC5
Sony HDR-HC5E
Sony HDR-HC7E
Canon HV10
Canon HV20

I have recommended mini-dv cameras because I don't like the HDD cameras because of space limitations(especially if on vacation) and I don't like the direct to DVD cameras because most you can't edit any of the video.

As for video editing software I would recommend Cyberlink Power Director 6, tons of features but easy to use. Or Pinnacle Studio Ultimate 11 both are equally as good, so your choice(Pinnacle is just a tad more expensive).

And last but not least, the Blu-ray burner they range in price but start around $500 so if he doesn't care if the videos are high quality then skip the burner for now. If you do go with a tape based camera, if or when he gets a Blu-ray burner he can then burn the tapes onto disk in hi-def.

[Groucho]

I think it would be a mistake to ignore the large number of very good HD camcorders, which shoot in 1440x01080. That's pretty much the standard for HDV shooting. It scales nicely to 1920x1080 with the replication of every 3rd horizontal pixel or to 1280x720 by dropping every 9th horizontal pixel. In quality tests I've seen, there is a much larger difference in image quality between 1440x1080 vs 1920x1080 camcorders associated with sensors (3x vs 1x), lenses, codecs and bitrates. I certainly can't see any advantage of 1280x720 over 1440x1080, except maybe smaller file sizes.

In general, I think the 1440x1080 vs 1920x1080 debate is about as meaningful as the 6mp vs 8mp debate was. There is a theoretical difference, but it's not something that you'll notice in real world usage.
I agree mostly - but the fact remains, only 1280x720 and 1920x1080 are "correct" high-definition resolutions. (Unlike digital cameras, where there is no standard size.) I personally would rather wait until 1920x1080 ones become more or less standard (in the same way that 1080P televisions are finally becoming pretty common) rather than getting an in-between solution. Similarly, a lot of nice TVs have 1366x768 resolution - but I wouldn't buy one.

1280x720p would be superior to 1440x1080i I would suspect, 1440x1080p would be better but again you're getting a stretched image. Imagine if a DSLR was released with an oddball resolution like that. :)

As for HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray debate, I would ignore it for camcorders. There aren't any camcorders that capture directly to either format that you actually want. Besides, just about anyone serious enough to drop $1,000 on an HD camcorder is likely to also be serious enough to at least minimally edit their footage. If that's the cast, then the capture and playback formats need not be the same.
I agree 100%. Forget that terminology completely when shopping for a high-def camcorder.

And as I mentioned earlier, you most certainly can put high-def content on a regular DVD, just less of it. I haven't been following it very closely, but my understanding is that BluRay players are pretty good at playing back AVCHD or transport stream high-def from homemade DVDs, and I think Nero can burn an HD-DVD format onto a standard DVD (definitely not sure about this one, but I believe that's the case.) There's nothing magical about BluRay/HD-DVD discs themselves, they just hold more data.

As for downloading movies off the internet - I don't think it'll ever catch on. First off, the big killer is that would put an enormous strain on the internet itself, and the backbone carriers likely won't be happy about that. Second, you need a fast connection to even get DVD-quality video in realtime - on your end, and the host needs to have a pretty enormous pipe to handle many connections grabbing movies. Third, to get high-def content into a format that has a prayer of getting across the internet in realtime, it will need to be heavily compressed. Hardly comparable to a good BluRay with huge bitrate and a big fat DTS 7.1 soundtrack. Fourth, downloads like that are sure to be heavily DRMed and therefore ephemeral - and people like to OWN movies. Even if you could keep them, a good 1080P high-def movie can easily be 15-20 gigs. That's a ton of space even with today's large hard drives. Fifth, consumers have gotten used to nice extras, which would be a tough sell with a streamed movie.

[bostran1]

I'm also not sure that you cant edit stuff then 'reload' it to a tape or harddrive camera and play it that way. Now that last part I do NOT know if that's possible or not. But I do know the other 2 (hooking computer up or playing straight from camera) are for sure both possible.


I archive all my DV movies that way. I download the footage to my computer, edit the video however I see fit. Then I burn it to DVD with menus, etc. Then I upload the video back to a DV tape for archiving.

[pjacobi]

What is the benefit of buying an HD/blu ray camcorder- if he cannot burn the cd to watch his video without investing several hundred to get the correct burner?

Although it is possible to capture, edit and master a disc in high definition, the whole process is still expensive.

I believe most people with a HD camcorder capture and edit in HD, then master to a standard definition DVD.

In 6-12 months HD-DVD/Blu-ray mess will get straighten out and burners will drop from the current $500.00 to something more reasonable. Then all your old movies can be re-master to HD. Shoot HD now, worry about the mastering mess later.

The cheaper alternative is to simply shoot SD and will until the whole HD ecosystem is complete and affordable.


-Paul

[garate55]

I am shooting all my videos in HD right now and I don't even have an HDTV, I will get one soon. But If I will keep all of my tapes for future recordings onto HD disk if or when I get a Blu-ray or HDDVD burner.

But for everylastbreath I wouldn't worry about anything but the camcorder for now.

[MarkBarbieri]

I agree mostly - but the fact remains, only 1280x720 and 1920x1080 are "correct" high-definition resolutions. (Unlike digital cameras, where there is no standard size.) I personally would rather wait until 1920x1080 ones become more or less standard (in the same way that 1080P televisions are finally becoming pretty common) rather than getting an in-between solution. Similarly, a lot of nice TVs have 1366x768 resolution - but I wouldn't buy one.


To be clear, there is an issue with resampling, but not with stretching. Stretching implies a change in picture aspect ratio, like stretching a 4:3 image onto a 16:9 display. 1440x1080 is 16:9. It does this by using 1.33:1 aspect ratio pixels. There is no requirement that pixels need to be square rather than rectangles. So if your concern is a loss of resolution (compared with 1920x1080), I can understand. If it is a concern over resampling artifacts, I can understand that as well. If it is a concern over aspect ratio stretching, that's not an issue. It's not like the "why is everyone so fat now that I'm watching SD on a widescreen TV" syndrome.



1280x720p would be superior to 1440x1080i I would suspect, 1440x1080p would be better but again you're getting a stretched image. Imagine if a DSLR was released with an oddball resolution like that. :)


whether 1280x720p would be superior to 1440x1080i would depend on what you were shooting. If you had very little motion and a need for more detail, the extra resolution, 1.555 mp vs 0.922 mp, would favor the 1440x1080i. If you had a lot of motion and less need for detail, the progressive scanning would be superior. Many HDV camcorders support 24 and 30 fps progressive scanning modes, so you can have 1440x1080p.

Again, you're not getting a stretched image. You're getting an image with rectangular pixels instead of square pixels. You've probably been watching non-square pixels for quite a while. A lot of HD broadcast is captured in 1440x1080. You also look at non-square pixels whenever you watch an anamorphically captured DVD.

My point is that you won't see "stretching" on 1440x1080. You will see a resolution between that of 1920x1080 and 1280x720. I'd strongly recommend any of the three over a standard def camcorder. If you've grown accustomed to HD (or even well mastered DVDs for that matter), the video that you see off of even a good SD camcorder will start to look rather poor. That's especially true as TV size increases.

[dburg30]

I archive all my DV movies that way. I download the footage to my computer, edit the video however I see fit. Then I burn it to DVD with menus, etc. Then I upload the video back to a DV tape for archiving.

Cool that's good to know, I 'thought' that worked at least for the tapes, but I hadnt done it myself and didnt want to mislead anyone.

[Groucho]

My point is that you won't see "stretching" on 1440x1080. You will see a resolution between that of 1920x1080 and 1280x720. I'd strongly recommend any of the three over a standard def camcorder. If you've grown accustomed to HD (or even well mastered DVDs for that matter), the video that you see off of even a good SD camcorder will start to look rather poor. That's especially true as TV size increases.
I guess I didn't choose my words correctly, wouldn't be the first time. :) I understand that the aspect ratio is changed, it's the pixels that are stretched. Well, not even that - what happens is that because 1440 is 75% of 1920, when you view it on a standard 1920x1080 display device, you will get two distinct pixels then the third one is doubled. So a 1920x1080 image will give you pixels like this:
12345678
And the 1440 will give you:
12334566

This would show in diagonals that are slightly jagged. Granted, you're unlikely to notice this when we're talking about resolutions this high at 30 fps, no argument. But regardless, 1440x1080 is a temporary - well, I hate to say kludge or hack, but perhaps stopgap is a good word - 1440x1080 is a temporary stopgap until 1920x1080 camcorders become more standardized and/or more advanced chips and sensors become available for the manufacturers to use. (I kind of hope that 1080i itself will be that way, I detest interlacing with every worthless fiber of my being and the sooner everything is standardized on progressive displays, the happier I'll be!)

That being said, I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from such a choice. Sometimes you need a piece of technology before it's completely matured. My first DVD player couldn't play burnt DVDs, for example, and my home theater projector is 720P (1080P projectors were about $30k at the time, if they even existed!) Since I'm in no rush for a high-def camcorder, I can afford to wait.

[webshark3]

If everyone wants to pixel peep,them perhaps consumer grade camcorders are not the best choice. For $12,000 to $250,000 we can get the OP set up with a system which will meet our highest Image Quality requirements. :)

I'd be more concernd aout the entire package; sound, handling, battery life, media... pixel peeping at these levels is just usually way too insignificant.

[everylastbreath]

Thank you everyone, because of your comments (and a review on Blu-Ray Camera) I went High Def. Got the Sony HDR SR5, seems to have good reviews and hopefully I did the right thing. Now I would like to get him some good High Def. Edit Software for his computer. Can anyone recommend something?? :confused:

[garate55]

Sony Vegas studio for HD is my next purchase $129.

[dburg30]

Sony Vegas studio for HD is my next purchase $129.

If you run Media Center on vista and get a tv card with 2 tuners, I had to uninstall vegas for it to work, not sure what caused it, but just one of those FYI things.

I use Pinnacle Studio version 11 and like it a lot..

[everylastbreath]

I bought Pinnacle Studio version 11 last night, a member of the "geek" recommended it, said it was the best and easiest to use. Fingers crossed I got everything right and my son likes everything! He's such a great kid and always puts so much thought into his gifts, I hope I did right with everything. Thanks so much for everyone on this board's help, couldn't have done it without you guys. Merry Christmas ALL!

[garate55]

I would think that would work good, I have v10 right now but I want more control over the sound and video so I think I will give the Sony product a whirl.
You made a wise decision grasshopper, Merry Christmas.

[everylastbreath]

As I previously posted I purchased the Sony HDR SR5, but I'm thinking about taking it back and getting the Sony HDR-SR7, because I found the higher model for about $50 more than the model I already have. Can someone who knows camcorders look at the specs on both and tell me if I should go for the upgrade and what the differences are?? Thanks!