OT Rant - Air Canada Aeroplan Miles Suck

[AndyMcV]

Ok.... in my opinion this program sucks.

I joined up with Aeroplan a few years back. I've had a couple trips to Europe and a trip to the US and have been using Esso gas to accumulate points. I'm sitting at 18,000 points.

First off their support for their program is awful. On every flight I've had I've had to go back and fight with them to enstate the points that I should have earned. In fact the last flight I had to Colorado Springs they would not enstate my points at all.

I use Esso gas to help accumulate points as well. For me to reach 25,000 aeroplan miles for a flight to Florida I'd have to spend $75,000.00 in gas. Hmm... maybe by the time I'm 230 years old! Am I the only one that thinks this is insane?

When you go to redeem your points for a flight you end up paying $100-200 for the ticket anyway because of taxes etc. Considering I can go to Buffalo and actually get my flight (yes round trip) for $100 - 200, I think Air Canada has a LOT to learn. It's too bad they have such a monopoly on Canadian air travel.

Just wondering if anyone else feels my pain. :lmao:

[Allegro]

Well they don't make it easy to earn points that's true. Unless you travel a lot and great distances it will take you a while to chalk up points. It's also hard to get flights when you want to travel -- certainly don't plan any last minute excursions. I use a Gold Visa to earn my points and they add up quite quickly. I save those points for really special faraway vacation that I've been planning for a while. We had no expectation that they would be any good for our trip to Disney.

[drag n' fly]

A lot (including us) Aeroplan users just cash their points for gift cards as it is too much hassle. Lots of people in this forum use credit card point programs much easier to redeem for flights. We feel your pain and annoyance. Air Miles is just as bad.

[xipetotec]

I have to say i DO feel your pain.

GRANTED, we've travelled on my father's points ( he and my mother take me, the wife and kids ) to Orlando a couple of times now. BUT it's because he's travelled *A LOT*.

Aside from that, we've had to book our travel a full 356 days in advance to ensure we get the seats/flights we want for our group. It sucks that it's only for "select" seats on the plane. The way *I* see it is if you want to reward your customers for travelling with you, your points should be like cash. Meaning if there are seats on the plane, you can use your points for it. PERIOD. Alas, Aeroplan doesn't see it that way, and even with them taking away many blackout dates last year, it's still a major hassle to deal with them.

[amw]

Ok.... in my opinion this program sucks.

I joined up with Aeroplan a few years back. I've had a couple trips to Europe and a trip to the US and have been using Esso gas to accumulate points. I'm sitting at 18,000 points.

First off their support for their program is awful. On every flight I've had I've had to go back and fight with them to enstate the points that I should have earned. In fact the last flight I had to Colorado Springs they would not enstate my points at all.

I use Esso gas to help accumulate points as well. For me to reach 25,000 aeroplan miles for a flight I'd have to spend $75,000.00 in gas. Hmm... maybe by the time I'm 230 years old! Am I the only one that thinks this is insane?

I just heard that 25,000 points now only gets you a one way flight. Ummm.. was it not supposed to be for a round trip? Wow 50,000 points for a flight to the US, I might as well cut up my card now. There's no way I'll ever get there.

When you go to redeem your points for a flight you end up paying $100-200 for the ticket anyway because of taxes etc. Considering I can go to Buffalo and actually get my flight (yes round trip) for $100 - 200, I think Air Canada has a LOT to learn. It's too bad they have such a monopoly on Canadian air travel.

Just wondering if anyone else feels my pain. :lmao:

Well I happen to love aeroplan :thumbsup2 but it is a frequent-flyer plan. They're not going to give you free trips for one or two flights a year.

My husband flies to the US for work weekly. Because he flies so regularly, we do fly as a family for free annually. Also, because he's super elite, we don't have to book far in advance and we only have to pay the 25,000 points per person. (I don't know where you got the redemption information, but it's wrong. A round-trip to FLorida is 25,000. We also have booked roundtrip to New York for 15,000.) Even before he was super elite, I was always able to get my seats because I'm an anal pre-planner :rolleyes1 (Put THAT on my tag, tag fairy!)

In the old system, there were complaints because if you didn't use/earn points regularly, you would lose them. I think the Esso program was meant to help that... you may not fly that year, but you're keeping your account active by earning a few points. There's no way it's meant for earning rewards because I agree, they don't give you enough per tank.

As for the taxes/airport fees... that's a complaint about our Cdn airports. It has nothing to do with aeroplan. You have to pay those taxes and fees no matter who you fly with out of Canada. So, yes, a "free" ticket costs $150 per person, but I'd have to pay that amount no matter what, unless you do go through American airports.

So, like any reward program, it's really only valuable if you actually use it a lot. The casual traveller is not going to benefit... but considering my kids are without a Dad on a weekly basis, I truly appreciate the free trips we can take annually. If it was twenty years ago, we would have the same work situation with no perks at all.

[MinnieMommy]

We love aeroplan. It's Air Canada we're not thrilled with! :rotfl:

I agree, it's only benficial if you "plan ahead". Miles also accumulate faster if you collect using an "aeroplan" credit card. It is frustrating that "free" tickets still require you to pay all of the lovely taxes. :headache: , but you'd be paying for those same taxes on a purchased ticket as well.

As a previous poster mentioned, we also save our points for destinations further away than WDW. You are also able to tweak it a bit to work for your plans. For instance, aeroplan allows you to include a stopover for your flight. So, you could arrange two mini vacations in one, if you'd like. Fly from POINT A to POINT B and stay for a few days, then fly from POINT B to POINT C for a longer vacation, then fly from POINT C home to POINT A. :cool1: We've done this and LOVE it!

For us, it's a better option than airmiles. ;)

[damo]

We have no problem with Aeroplan. We've used it multiple times and have had great luck with it. As long as you plan in advance, you should be able to get short haul flights for 15,000 return and longer haul for 25,000. Credit card balances accumulate points quite quickly.

If I depended on Airmiles, I would wait an entire lifetime for any trip.

[MikeyNS]

We find Aeroplan to be fairly decent, especially when you don't want to fly fairly short notice to fairly popular destinations. Because we're DVC members we usually plan 11 months in advance and have always been able to grab flights from YHZ-MCO with no issues. Yes the taxes suck, but it's not an Aeroplan issue. We have to pay taxes and such on our Avion flights as well. 25,000pts is for round trip, and Aeroplan just had a "sale" where you could get round trip flights for 20,000pts. Great deal!

[nelljay1973]

I can't say that I love Air Canada, but I can say that we love Star Alliance and Aeroplan...in fact we rarely fly Air Canada. We fly Star Alliance, ie United, Air New Zealand.

We haven't changed our habits at all, we are by no means frequent flyers, just that when we do fly, it is to the other side of the world! I've now made 3 trips home to Australia and after our trip to Florida in Feb (on Avion points), my DH and I should have enough..ie 75,000 to fly via star alliance back to Australia.

A good thing to note is that Air Canada has introduced the 7 year rule. Your miles now expire 7 years from when you accumulate them.

[Calgary DISHeads]

I hate Air Canada, Aeroplan - all of it but because I am a frequent flyer, almost super elite I use it because it's free. I'm not going into a rant over customer service.... :group hug: but what I did not know is that you could use aeroplan miles on star alliance partners - does it cost more miles? If I had known I would have flown United to Orlando at Christmas instead of my flight through Toronto which has an 80 minute connection time, and I didn't know I had to clear customs in Toronto (have always flown through the States to Orlando) - lady at aeroplan actually told me I'd never make it! But was unable to provide a solution. Sorry, I promised not to complain about service.... A quick way to get 15,000 points is to sign up for a CIBC Aeroplan card - costs I think $120 a year, but worth it for 15K points for us.

[SaskDisNut]

but what I did not know is that you could use aeroplan miles on star alliance partners - does it cost more miles?

I used Aeroplan for our flights in May. We flew AC Jazz to Winnipeg and then United to Orlando through Chicago O'Hare. Coming home we flew United to Denver and Calgary and then home on AC Jazz. It cost 25,000 points for each flight so no it didn't cost anymore to fly on a Star Alliance partner. I did all my booking online as it gave me all the flights that were available with including the Star Alliance flights. Once I booked, I then called an Aeroplan 800# and was connected within minutes to an agent so that I could pay the airport fees and taxes.

Would I use Aeroplan again? Probably, but it took me years to save up 100K points to get 4 flights. So realistically I'll probably look at other airlines next time.

[nelljay1973]

but what I did not know is that you could use aeroplan miles on star alliance partners - does it cost more miles?


Oh yes, Star Alliance is the way to go...being that you are a frequent flyer you should know that you accumulate via star alliance, hence you can redeem that way. We always use the star alliance method, for example, my DH flew out to Australia using aeroplan for 75,000 miles redeemed via Star Alliance...the exact same flight via Air Canada would have cost us 75,000 at minimum with the most common being 110,000 under the Classic plus system. To get the 75,000 option for classic flights you would have to book the 360 days in advance, because I swear they have maybe 2 seats on the plane at that rate. To fly with Star Alliance costs 75,000 whether I booked 1 week out or 7 months out - if the seats are available...75,000 it is!

[Calgary DISHeads]

Oh yes, Star Alliance is the way to go...being that you are a frequent flyer you should know that you accumulate via star alliance, hence you can redeem that way. We always use the star alliance method, for example, my DH flew out to Australia using aeroplan for 75,000 miles redeemed via Star Alliance...the exact same flight via Air Canada would have cost us 75,000 at minimum with the most common being 110,000 under the Classic plus system. To get the 75,000 option for classic flights you would have to book the 360 days in advance, because I swear they have maybe 2 seats on the plane at that rate. To fly with Star Alliance costs 75,000 whether I booked 1 week out or 7 months out - if the seats are available...75,000 it is!

I'm new to this frequent flyer stuff - just started circumnavigating the globe this year actually... I did know I accumulated points via star alliance but it never clicked in that I could book flights, never even noticed it on the aeroplan site. Now I'm super grumpy as I could have probably used a lot less miles than I did for our Christmas trip, (40K each) and had more dates to choose from (it was a rush planning job - booked a month ago). Plus could have flown through the states and avoided the customs in Toronto issue.

Oh well, live and learn I guess. One more great thing I have learned from these boards. Thanks everyone!

[calgarygary]

The OP has posted misinformation about Aeroplan and has been corrected by other posters. I just wanted to add that if you want to educate yourself about frequent flyer programs, one of the best places on the web is flyertalk.com/ (http://flyertalk.com/)

[sean-1966]

I've redeemed miles for a flight once. Worked out OK. The points I have now will go to WDW tickets when I get enough for 2.

[Subrbnmommy]

We've given up using them for travel but, we've been buying our WDW passes as well as Seaworld passes.

Makes it worthwhile for us!

[bavaria]

Well I happen to love aeroplan :thumbsup2 but it is a frequent-flyer plan. They're not going to give you free trips for one or two flights a year.

And this is the winning response. Aeroplan is a FREQUENT FLYER program, not a rewards program (although Aeroplan has been misguidedly marketing it as such in recent years)

For frequent flyers, it works very well, as some other posters have already shown. I have had well over 1 million miles deposited into my Aeroplan account over the years, going back to the days of Canadian Plus.

I currently use United Mileage Plus as my primary FF plan, and fund my Lufthansa and Aeroplan accounts as required. For instance, I transfer all of my Amex rewards to Aeroplan. (Although I fly over 150,000 miles/year, I have only flown AC once in the past two years for either business or leisure, and that was a 1 hour flight) This gives me great flexibility within the Star Alliance network to purchase rewards tickets with the best routing and lowest taxes.

As with any transaction, those who are educated about the program will find the most benefit. Gary made an excellent suggestion to visit www.flyertalk.com. There is a lot of misinformation about frequent flyer programs, as already witnessed on this thread, and learning about how to best use your miles can only benefit you.

I cringe whenever I see the 'consumer reports' type clips in the media bashing Aeroplan or other frequent flyer programs, as they usually feature the infrequent leisure traveller who is trying to use gasoline purchases to fund their trips.

[bavaria]

I'm also going to dispute the comment that one has to book 51 weeks out in order to get a rewards ticket. I only plan my vacations 0-14 days in advance, and am always able to get flights that work for me, usually on my first choice of carrier and first choice of routing.

Granted, it is easier to find one or two tickets rather than four or five, but many airlines return inventory short term - again, if you educate yourself, you may be pleasantly surprised.

In my case, I know that Lufthansa returns space, so I can easily book myself a last minute vacation. During World Cup last summer my friends and I all booked Lufthansa tickets to MUC with 3-5 days notice. This was definitely a peak 'special event' period yet we all managed to book our vacation.

I also know that United now has a 'short in' booking fee for last minute bookings, so if I am going to consider a trip using Mileage Plus I either plan on the fee, or use my AC or LH miles.

And for those of you earning AC miles but flying UA often you may want to consider a status match and a switch to Mileage Plus. UA gives double miles to certain tiers of elite members, making miles add up all that more quickly. (Not to mention the huge benefit of Economy Plus seating)

[AndyMcV]

....as they usually feature the infrequent leisure traveller who is trying to use gasoline purchases to fund their trips.

Yep, that's me. I guess I got caught in the marketing hype from Air Canada promoting Aeroplan. I was misguided in thinking that this would be a nice benefit for ANYONE choosing to fly with Air Canada. Hmm.. what a thought. I didn't realize it was only for people who fly with Air Canada every other week. ;)

[bavaria]

Yep, that's me. I guess I got caught in the marketing hype from Air Canada promoting Aeroplan. I was misguided in thinking that this would be a nice benefit for ANYONE choosing to fly with Air Canada. Hmm.. what a thought. I didn't realize it was only for people who fly with Air Canada every other week. ;)


It is a loyalty program, for people who use their product, or their partner products.

I don't stay at Fairmont hotels, so why should I expect them to reward me with free nights? I don't rent with Avis, so I don't expect free rental days from them.

There has been a lot of good advice in this thread, which will hopefully clear up some items for the infrequent traveller. You can choose to take the advice, or not. But if you do take the advice, you may find yourself flying on a reward ticket more frequently than in past.

[AndyMcV]

I agree 100% that there is some great advice in this thread no question.

... I'm going to jump on my soapbox here... :rotfl:

Perhaps someday I'll gain enough points to get a "free" flight with AC. However I'm not holding my breath. I guess I'm speaking for the infrequent flyer and honestly there is absolutely no reason for me to fly with AC. There is no incentive there especially when their "loyalty program" makes it very difficult to actually get flight points. Other than signing up with a CIBC Visa at $120/year or flying a lot more there is no other way to realistically gain points.

I guess I just can't get it out my head that I can drive to Buffalo for 3 hours get on a plane for a destination in the US at literally 1 quarter the cost. Yes $2400 vs $600 for a family of 4. Talk about loyalty... how can you with this difference in cost. There's no question that I'd fly with AC if the prices were more realistic and I truely felt that they care that I'm a customer and show it with at loyalty/rewards program that works for all.

Just my $0.02.

[calgarygary]

Ok.... in my opinion this program sucks.

I joined up with Aeroplan a few years back. I've had a couple trips to Europe and a trip to the US and have been using Esso gas to accumulate points. I'm sitting at 18,000 points.

First off their support for their program is awful. On every flight I've had I've had to go back and fight with them to enstate the points that I should have earned. In fact the last flight I had to Colorado Springs they would not enstate my points at all.

I use Esso gas to help accumulate points as well. For me to reach 25,000 aeroplan miles for a flight I'd have to spend $75,000.00 in gas. Hmm... maybe by the time I'm 230 years old! Am I the only one that thinks this is insane?

I just heard that 25,000 points now only gets you a one way flight. Ummm.. was it not supposed to be for a round trip? Wow 50,000 points for a flight to the US, I might as well cut up my card now. There's no way I'll ever get there.

When you go to redeem your points for a flight you end up paying $100-200 for the ticket anyway because of taxes etc. Considering I can go to Buffalo and actually get my flight (yes round trip) for $100 - 200, I think Air Canada has a LOT to learn. It's too bad they have such a monopoly on Canadian air travel.

Just wondering if anyone else feels my pain. :lmao:

I might suggest that you correct your post so that others are not misled by your rant. Everyone has a right to express the view on a topic - so go ahead and rant about aeroplan but please include factual information. As you well know, short haul return flights begin at 15000 miles and last I checked, there is competition for Air Canada. Westjet has been very effective (much more so than in the days of CP air) of forcing AC into competitive pricing. As far as saving money in Buffalo, be thankful that you have that alternative.

[bavaria]

Perhaps someday I'll gain enough points to get a "free" flight with AC. However I'm not holding my breath. I guess I'm speaking for the infrequent flyer and honestly there is absolutely no reason for me to fly with AC. There is no incentive there especially when their "loyalty program" makes it very difficult to actually get flight points. Other than signing up with a CIBC Visa at $120/year or flying a lot more there is no other way to realistically gain points.

You are definitely entitled to your opinion, as is anyone else here.

But you have said it yourself - you are not a loyal AC customer. Just as you have no incentive to fly with them, they have no incentive to seek you out as a customer, nor do they have any incentive to reward you.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that - we all make choices. A loyalty program is exactly that - it rewards loyalty.

On a side note, I have never 'paid' more than 25,000 miles for a round trip ticket in North America, or 80,000 miles for a business class round trip international ticket.

[drag n' fly]

Another thing that bugs me that came to mind is flights. When you finally manage to get a flight they book you on the crappiest flight they can find.
Eg: We wanted to fly from Calgary to Huatulco. We redeemed our aeroplan miles(last time) and our flight left Calgary at 1am.:scared: We had to fly all the way to Toronto and then have a 5 hour layover before we got on the plane and flew all the way back west to Mexico City to transfer....which AC missed but that's another story. No they could not put us on a flight direct to Mexico City that's for paying cutomers. WE never redeemed miles for tickets again and only redeem for gift cards now.

[RoyalCanadian]

We've given up using them for travel but, we've been buying our WDW passes as well as Seaworld passes.

Makes it worthwhile for us!

Different strokes for different folks, I guess -- but using Aeroplan for anything but redeeming for flights seems like a waste of resources. Redeeming Aeroplan points for WDW passes is a phenomenal waste.

That 7 day adult MYW park hopper costs 39,000 Aeroplan points. Total value at the WDW gate is $281.16

For 40,000 Aeroplan points I have flown from Toronto to Los Angeles; returning from San Francisco to Toronto with a routing through Calgary (because I took the bump in SFO) in Business Class with access to the Maple Leaf Lounges in Toronto and Calgary and access to a Star Alliance partners 1st class lounge in San Francisco. Total value was $3000+. I booked that flight less than 60 days prior to the date of departure due to a variety of circumstances. I paid less than $80 in tax and departure fees on that Aeroplan redemption.

I am, by no means, a "frequent" frequent flyer. I have, however, received tons of valuable information from Flyertalk.com that has allowed me to receive tremendous value through Aeroplan. I make about 1 "revenue points" flight each year on Air Canada -- some years more, some years less. The rest of the points come from credit card, buying gas at Esso, making phone calls and having Internet through Bell Canada, shopping at Home Hardware, renting the occasional car.

I am willing to pay $120/year for that CIBC Visa to make extra Aeroplan points. The $120/year was more than made up for when CIBC Visa paid out a rental automobile accident claim this summer. I never purchase additional automobile insurance when renting a car -- it's covered by CIBC Visa. That is an outstanding value.

I've been a member of Aeroplan since July 14, 1993. Since then I have redeemed 40,000 points for that very enjoyable trip in business class and 75,000 points for 3 economy class tickets for a family vacation this past summer that flew my family and I to Regina and then home again from Seattle. The total tax paid on those 3 tickets was less than $300, and that's not Air Canada's fault. I have another 40,000+ points building in my account. There were also 25,000 points from Canadian Plus that flew my lovely wife to Florida in 1997 while I used Air Miles for the same flight.

No problem getting points here -- and no problems getting the flights I want, either.

[nelljay1973]

It was I that mentioned the 51 weeks in advance. Drawing from my own personal experience using specifically Air Canada flying to Australia. We love aeroplan and more importantly Star Alliance. When trying to redeem 75,000 aeroplan miles using Air Canada for October 2006 flight was told, sorry no 75,000 "classic" miles available at that time, when we were booking 6 months in advance ( I had enquired say 10 months out and there was). I then asked the agent to check via the star alliance network and low and behold there were 75,000 mile seats available incorporating an Air Canada flight segment, ie flew out United, came back Air Canada.

So based solely on my own personal experience, if you are to redeem solely via the Air Canada system, then you need to book well and truly in advance for less flown routes. Air Canada flies only one plane daily to Australia via Hawaii thus limiting your options.

[nelljay1973]

Also for those CNBC watchers out there keep an eye out for one of there specials that is called A week in the life of American Airlines. Explains about how they price their tickets and how their reward system works. I found it very informative.

[bavaria]

It was I that mentioned the 51 weeks in advance. Drawing from my own personal experience using specifically Air Canada flying to Australia. We love aeroplan and more importantly Star Alliance. When trying to redeem 75,000 aeroplan miles using Air Canada for October 2006 flight was told, sorry no 75,000 "classic" miles available at that time, when we were booking 6 months in advance ( I had enquired say 10 months out and there was). I then asked the agent to check via the star alliance network and low and behold there were 75,000 mile seats available incorporating an Air Canada flight segment, ie flew out United, came back Air Canada.

So based solely on my own personal experience, if you are to redeem solely via the Air Canada system, then you need to book well and truly in advance for less flown routes. Air Canada flies only one plane daily to Australia via Hawaii thus limiting your options.

If you go over to www.flyertalk.com, they will tell you how to search for Star Alliance availability using the ANA frequent flyer program. It may take a few minutes, but to me it is worth it.

Do any of you check availability on line? I have actually NEVER booked my award travel over the phone. And don't most airlines charge fees to book via an agent, even for award travel?

[AndyMcV]

I might suggest that you correct your post so that others are not misled by your rant. Everyone has a right to express the view on a topic - so go ahead and rant about aeroplan but please include factual information. As you well know, short haul return flights begin at 15000 miles and last I checked, there is competition for Air Canada. Westjet has been very effective (much more so than in the days of CP air) of forcing AC into competitive pricing. As far as saving money in Buffalo, be thankful that you have that alternative.

Duly noted and I've made my correction. I was speaking specificallly 25,000 points for a round trip to Florida aka WDW. My mistake and thank you for pointing it out. I did not want to mislead our thread readers. :thumbsup2

Yet, I'm still amazed at how crummy Aeroplan is for it's members. For people that fly a lot, yes a LOT it sounds like a help. For the rest of us we might as well look to another company to fly to WDW with.

Someone on this thread mentioned that AC has competition. Are you serious? If you are, where do I actually see realistic priced flights due to this competition? We are planning a trip to WDW next May/June. I checked the prices last night comparing AC to Southwest. Hmmm... for the 4 of us it's $2600 with AC and a whopping $830 with Southest. Competition.... um, you got a long way to go AC. A long way to go.

Maybe I'm missed something and hopefully I have. Please let me know that I have. I'd love to see some great flight prices with AC and I'd be the first to book with them for our trips. I'd also love to see another way to accumulate points faster with Aeroplan. I guess I haven't seen either of these.

[bavaria]

Maybe I'm missed something and hopefully I have. Please let me know that I have. I'd love to see some great flight prices with AC and I'd be the first to book with them for our trips. I'd also love to see another way to accumulate points faster with Aeroplan. I guess I haven't seen either of these.

Yes, you have. The AC flight departs from Canada, where taxes and fees are significantly higher than at US airports. There is also far less competition in the Canadian airline market than in the US market. And AC is a legacy carrier, while SW is a low cost carrier.

When things go wrong, AC has the ability to interline with other airlines. SW does not. AC offers advance seat selection, SW does not.

While many here enjoy the SW experience, the low cost carrier and legacy carrier experience is very different.

[bavaria]

I'd also love to see another way to accumulate points faster with Aeroplan. I guess I haven't seen either of these.

Honestly, I really am confused, and I am trying to be helpful about this. You started this thread because you were frustrated with the earning side of Aeroplan, not the redemption side, correct? ie you were frustrated that you flew a few times over a span of a few years, and feel that you are not earning enough miles quickly enough.

Frankly, the simple solution is the obvious one - fly more frequently. I am not trying to be facetious. Aeroplan is a frequent flyer program for those who fly the Star Alliance network.

The other 'quick' way to earn miles, as several have suggested, is to use a credit card affiliated with Aeroplan. I know many people who don't fly very often, but make all of their purchases on an airline affiliated credit card, pay off the balance every month, and earn enough miles for free flights every year.

As I mentioned above, you can transfer Amex points into your account. Depending on your yearly spend, that can again add up quickly.

Other than that, rental cars bookings and hotel stays can add miles into your account, albeit not as quickly.

Ultimately, if you are an infrequent flyer, earning points in a frequent flyer program will be very difficult.

You may want to post your question on the Transportation Board. Many of us fly frequently and do try and help those who do not. You may also (as suggested several times) want to visit the Aeroplan forum at www.flyertalk.com to see how people fund their accounts.

Best of luck.

[bavaria]

I am, by no means, a "frequent" frequent flyer. I have, however, received tons of valuable information from Flyertalk.com that has allowed me to receive tremendous value through Aeroplan. I make about 1 "revenue points" flight each year on Air Canada -- some years more, some years less. The rest of the points come from credit card, buying gas at Esso, making phone calls and having Internet through Bell Canada, shopping at Home Hardware, renting the occasional car.

I am willing to pay $120/year for that CIBC Visa to make extra Aeroplan points. The $120/year was more than made up for when CIBC Visa paid out a rental automobile accident claim this summer. I never purchase additional automobile insurance when renting a car -- it's covered by CIBC Visa. That is an outstanding value.

I am quoting this OP in case you don't care to listen to my posts - listen to someone who has posted some great information.

And one last comment re Aeroplan - you wrote Yet, I'm still amazed at how crummy Aeroplan is for it's members. Aeroplan actually has some of the lowest elite qualification requirements in the industry, and is fact the reason why many travellers who are not based in Canada, or never fly AC, are members. The 35,000 Elite threshold and accompanying Star Alliance Gold benefits are attractive to those who are unable to reach the 50,000 threshold on most other carriers. I realize that it doesn't impact your situation, but Aeroplan actually has a lot going for it.

[AndyMcV]

Hi bavaria

It's me the OP. I truely appreciate your willingness to try and help me out and understand this. Thank you for your information about Aeroplan. It's obvious that you are really happy with Air Canada, Aeroplan and it's benefits. I'm glad that you can benefiit from it.

For me (and I would think a lot of other families) for one, I find that the Aeroplan program is of little value given how hard it is to accumulate points. To your point, yes, this is my original rant. Secondly, which ties in with my first point by way of trying to accumulate points by flying more, I find Air Canada very expensive and hard to justify given true compeditive pricing (ie. comparing to Southwest $2600 vs $830 for a family of 4).

So... I totally agree with your advice in that if you fly more or fly a lot with Air Canada you can benefit. For me, who would like to fly more with Air Canada, it offers little or no benefit.

Again, thanks for your input on the post.

[bavaria]

Thanks for not taking it the wrong way. One last example before I bow out of this thread... ;)

Last year I flew Delta once, for a 40 minute flight. I have about 15,000 Delta Skymiles sitting in my account, from about 5 different flights over the past several years. I doubt that I will use them anytime soon, nor do I see adding many miles into my account over the next few years.

So while I am a frequent flyer, I am not a frequent DELTA flyer. Like you, I may need to use those miles one day for something other than a flight. It's just reality, whether I like it or not...

Happy flying!

[drag n' fly]

Hi bavaria

It's me the OP. I truely appreciate your willingness to try and help me out and understand this. Thank you for your information about Aeroplan. It's obvious that you are really happy with Air Canada, Aeroplan and it's benefits. I'm glad that you can benefiit from it.

For me (and I would think a lot of other families) for one, I find that the Aeroplan program is of little value given how hard it is to accumulate points. To your point, yes, this is my original rant. Secondly, which ties in with my first point by way of trying to accumulate points by flying more, I find Air Canada very expensive and hard to justify given true compeditive pricing (ie. comparing to Southwest $2600 vs $830 for a family of 4).

So... I totally agree with your advice in that if you fly more or fly a lot with Air Canada you can benefit. For me, who would like to fly more with Air Canada, it offers little or no benefit.

Again, thanks for your input on the post.


Just remember flying SW is not an option for most of us. It would be helpful to have a subforum about finding flights out of Canada.

[bavaria]

It's obvious that you are really happy with Air Canada, Aeroplan and it's benefits.

I missed this - last comment, I promise! :rotfl2:

Believe it or not, I CAN'T STAND to fly AC. As I said previously, I have had one flight of one hour duration on them in the past year. I also can't stand YYZ so will do anything in my power to fly other carriers and connect in YUL or YOW :)

I like the program because I use it for seats in business class in Lufthansa - but don't like the AC product or the service!

[RoyalCanadian]

For me (and I would think a lot of other families) for one, I find that the Aeroplan program is of little value given how hard it is to accumulate points.

I fail to see how anyone could consider it difficult to accumulate points with Aeroplan. I have found it very easy to accumulate thousands of points with Aeroplan and I'm hardly trying.

Since January of this year I have managed to accumulate 17286 Aeroplan points through regular purchases of gasoline, using an Aeroplan branded CIBC Visa card, drinking Tropicana orange juice and eating Quaker Oats products, shopping at Home Hardware, using Bell Canada for home telephone and Internet, renting cars on vacation and staying in hotels on vacation.

There were two flights on Air Canada Jazz that put 814 points into my account.

All of this said -- I do not fill up exclusively at Esso, nor do I shop for hardware products exclusively at Home Hardware. Tropicana orange juice is an occasional luxury I give myself and my family doesn't use Bell Canada for long distance telephone. I don't rent cars a lot and I don't stay exclusively at hotels that give points transferrable to the Aeroplan programme and I certainly don't put all my purchases on the Visa card. There are many other Aeroplan partners giving out points, but I don't have any reason to shop with them at this time.

I will gladly cross the border to find a cheaper flight to Florida or any other destination in the United States (or abroad for that matter, if the opportunity arose). I will gladly fly WestJet on flights within Canada if the schedule or price beats what Air Canada can offer me.

I wouldn't consider myself loyal to Air Canada. I'm a former shareholder who saw my tiny investment wiped out in the bankruptcy proceedings a few years ago while company executives made out quite nicely in the restructuring. However, I'll gladly take whatever points Aeroplan is willing to give me and use them to my advantage -- and I have found it very easy to collect these points and redeem these points.

[calliemom]

I'm another lover of Aeroplan!!!! We have traveled 3 years in a row free (other than taxes) to Orlando and already have our next trip booked for June 08 (Tampa). We do accumulate through our American Express and Visa Gold and other than having to book 12 months in advance to get those direct flights we want, we have had no problems.

[AndyMcV]

...I have found it very easy to accumulate thousands of points with Aeroplan and I'm hardly trying....

Since January of this year I have managed to accumulate 17286 Aeroplan points through regular purchases of gasoline, using an Aeroplan branded CIBC Visa card, drinking Tropicana orange juice and eating Quaker Oats products, shopping at Home Hardware, using Bell Canada for home telephone and Internet, renting cars on vacation and staying in hotels on vacation.


Hmmm... I bet most of your points are accumulated with your CIBC Visa card which has an annual fee of $120+. Just as an example it will take me $75,000in Esso gas purchases to get 25,000 points. Umm... ok, you must spend a LOT of money on gasoline. Honestly other than the CIBC Visa or fights, there seems to be no other realistic way to accumulate points.

[calgarygary]

Hmmm... I bet most of your points are accumulated with your CIBC Visa card which has an annual fee of $120+. Just as an example it will take me $75,000in Esso gas purchases to get 25,000 points. Umm... ok, you must spend a LOT of money on gasoline. Honestly other than the CIBC Visa or fights, there seems to be no other realistic way to accumulate points.

I must be missing something - what other way of collecting points in an airline's loyalty program are you looking for? You collect points through flights with ac and it's partners, with car rentals, hotel stays, credit cards, gas purchases, at various times they have partnered with retailers such as future shop, just what are you looking for AndyMcV. Tell us what manner you expect to collect points in an airline's loyalty program that is currently not available.

[bavaria]

It seems that every week I receive at least one email from Aeroplan with earning opportunites. Today I see that Costco is offering up to 3,750 miles with select purchases and 1,000 miles for membership.

I don't shop at Costco so I have no idea what the 'select purchases' are, but this is another example of how one can earn miles.

Last night I transferred another 2,000 Amex miles into my Aeroplan account. I have a no fee Amex and there is no charge to transfer the points

[AndyMcV]

I must be missing something - what other way of collecting points in an airline's loyalty program are you looking for? You collect points through flights with ac and it's partners, with car rentals, hotel stays, credit cards, gas purchases, at various times they have partnered with retailers such as future shop, just what are you looking for AndyMcV. Tell us what manner you expect to collect points in an airline's loyalty program that is currently not available.

So... with the 3 partnerships you sited, tell me how much money do you actually have to spend at Esso, Home Hardware and what the heck FutureShop to actually accumulate 25,000 points for a trip to Florida. I can tell you with Esso it's $75,000. Yes that's 75 thousand dollars. How long will it take you to spend $75,000 on gas? For me it's probably about 15 years at $100 a week. Oh.. I forgot aeroplan points expire after 7 years now.

I'm not arguing at all that if I fly more I'd accumulate a lot more points. I get that. I'm talking about the average family who flies once in a while and how hard it is to accumulate points OTHER than a CIBC Visa.

... you do realize I'm just doing this for fun right? :goodvibes

[RoyalCanadian]

Hmmm... I bet most of your points are accumulated with your CIBC Visa card which has an annual fee of $120+. Umm... ok, you must spend a LOT of money on gasoline. Honestly other than the CIBC Visa or fights, there seems to be no other realistic way to accumulate points.

You are wrong on both accounts. There is nothing like speculation and conjecture to end up being completely wrong.

I drive a Toyota Yaris hatchback and put in about $40 worth of gasoline every 8 days on average. You are correct that the regular promotion with Esso has been 1 point for every $3 in gasoline, but lately it has been 2 points for every $3. Nice bonus.

I'm a Lutheran minister. I don't have a lot of money to pay large credit card bills, so I don't accumulate large credit card bills to pay off. Just regular spending on a few different credit cards.

I posted how I have accumulated my points this year in a previous post. Lots of points with Tropicana and Quaker Oats and 2000 bonus car rental points.

As I have already pointed out, the $120 CIBC Aerogold card annual fee is quite worth it when the rental car insurance perk is figured in. I was charged nearly $300 for a stone chip in the windshield of a rental car from my summer vacation. That charge automatically went on my CIBC Aerogold Visa. (points accumulated!!) I filled out the necessary paperwork and received a cheque in the mail about 2 weeks later for the full amount. The $120 annual fee was more than paid back with car rental insurance premiums I have not had to pay over the years in both Canada and the United States.

There really seems to be no satisfying the OP. Nobody is going to force the OP to collect Aeroplan points -- but more than a few of us have pointed out very realistic ways in which we have earned points with Aeroplan. Of the over 17,000 points I earned this year, only 800 or so points were earned due to flying with Air Canada.

[FayeW]

I am forced to collect aeroplan miles through a loyalty program with one of our suppliers at work. When I send business to them, they reward me with 1000 aeroplan miles. In the last year and a half I have collected 50,000. I am not happy about this reward program as they replaced an awesome program with this crap and I was really, really unhappy about it. Sent complaints to the Powers That Be and all. I am, however, stuck with it so I will make the best of it. My husband had also collected them as he was a frequent flyer for work and I think he has 40,000 or so.

I will not use them for passes or gift cards as I don't think that reflects value for my points. I will also not use them for US travel as, like the OP, I can't understand why anyone living as close to the border as those of us in Ottawa (or Toronto) do would use points AND cash to pay for a flight that we could get out of NY for just the cost of the cash itself.

I will use the points for flights within Canada, or perhaps treat myself to a flight to England to see my friend.

[bavaria]

... you do realize I'm just doing this for fun right? :goodvibes

Andy (may I call you Andy? :) ), I enjoy a good debate. But this thread doesn't really interest me any more, and let me gently tell you why.

You had a concern, which you expressed, and which you are definitely entitled to share with the community.

Several of us made suggestions and gave real life examples.

Yet every time, you have disputed the facts that we give. The only thing that we haven't yet done is cut and paste the entire list of Aeroplan partners into this thread for you to show you all the earning opportunities.

I would like to continue to participate, but frankly this thread reads to me like 'yes, it is' - 'no, it isn't' - 'yes, it is'. I have more productive ways to spend my time than to go back and forth debating something which is simply fact. (the 'fact' is that Aeroplan provides the average consumer with a variety of ways to earn miles)

I hope that in the end you find a solution which works for you - whether that is a way to accumulate Aeorplan miles more quickly, or to choose to fly a different carrier.

Best of luck.

[RoyalCanadian]

I will also not use them for US travel as, like the OP, I can't understand why anyone living as close to the border as those of us in Ottawa (or Toronto) do would use points AND cash to pay for a flight that we could get out of NY for just the cost of the cash itself.

Are you able to get a flight that costs $3000 in Canada for $75 from an airport in upstate New York?

I did just that using 40,000 Aeroplan points and found myself enjoying Executive First class on an Air Canada flight to Los Angeles and returned to Toronto from San Francisco. The $75 was the tax and departure fees I paid on that flight.

[AndyMcV]

Andy (may I call you Andy? :) ), I enjoy a good debate. But this thread doesn't really interest me any more... I would like to continue to participate, but frankly this thread reads to me like 'yes, it is' - 'no, it isn't' - 'yes, it is'....=

Hi bavaria, RoyalCanadian and CalgaryGary

Yes you can call me Andy. :)

I agree with you. Ok, ok... and perhaps I'm starting to bend after all the brow beating ;) I'll admit after your very well stated points I'll stop being lazy and check out the Aeroplan website for the list of partners. Perhaps I could find myself accumulating points a lot faster that I have been. Yes I did say that.

With that I thank you for your very informed and passionate input.

Cheers,
Andy

[RoyalCanadian]

So... with the 3 partnerships you sited, tell me how much money do you actually have to spend at Esso, Home Hardware and what the heck FutureShop to actually accumulate 25,000 points for a trip to Florida. I can tell you with Esso it's $75,000. Yes that's 75 thousand dollars. How long will it take you to spend $75,000 on gas? For me it's probably about 15 years at $100 a week. Oh.. I forgot aeroplan points expire after 7 years now.

I'm not arguing at all that if I fly more I'd accumulate a lot more points. I get that. I'm talking about the average family who flies once in a while and how hard it is to accumulate points OTHER than a CIBC Visa.

... you do realize I'm just doing this for fun right? :goodvibes

Yes -- you would have to spend $75,000 on gasoline at Esso to get those 25,000 Aeroplan Miles.

I won't. I would only have to spend $13637 to get the same 25,000 points. I get 1 Aeroplan Miles for each $3 I spend on gasoline @ Esso.

That's 4545 Aeroplan Miles for spending $13636 at Esso.

Then I get 1.5 Aeroplan Miles for each $1 I spend on gasoline on my CIBC Aerogold Visa card -- that's 20455 Aeroplan Miles for spending $13637 on gasoline.

Of course, I'm not just buying gasoline @ Esso. I'm talking on the telephone through Bell Canada; enjoying freshly squeezed Tropicana orange juice; eating Cap'n Crunch breakfast cereal; staying @ Best Western, Choice Hotels, and Holiday Inn; renting cars through Avis and Hertz; and buying home renovation products at Home Hardware.

So, while bavaria, CalgaryGary and I are enjoying complimentary beverages in the Maple Leaf Lounge because we've managed to accumulate enough Aeroplan Miles to fly in business class, we'll toast you :drinking1 , AndyMcV and have a good laugh because you're not going anywhere anytime soon. We have shown you real-life examples of easy ways to accumulate Aeroplan Miles and yet you ask us to tell you real-life examples of easy ways to accumulate Aeroplan Miles.

You have become a troll AndyMcV -- hardly worth the bandwidth to continue the discussion any further.

[AndyMcV]

So, while bavaria, CalgaryGary and I are enjoying complimentary beverages in the Maple Leaf Lounge because we've managed to accumulate enough Aeroplan Miles to fly in business class, we'll toast you :drinking1 , AndyMcV and have a good laugh because you're not going anywhere anytime soon. We have shown you real-life examples of easy ways to accumulate Aeroplan Miles and yet you ask us to tell you real-life examples of easy ways to accumulate Aeroplan Miles.

You have become a troll AndyMcV -- hardly worth the bandwidth to continue the discussion any further.

You just missed my last post Neil. I was only having a little fun and did not mean any bad feelings at all. Sorry you took it that way. :goodvibes

[minnie56]

I have more than 200,000 Aeroplan miles. Most (90%) of them earned with Aerogold and American Express Platinum where I get 1.5 miles for every dollar I spend. I am just dilligent in being an avid collector! I use my card (s) for fuel, groceries, all shopping and travel expenditures and on and on. I collect almost 450 a month just with Bell, ING and fuel apart from anything else. I work with Cruise Ship Centers so of course all of my vacations are booked though there (!!) and I get more there as we are in partnership w/Aeroplan. Is it always easy to redeem the miles, nope..but when it works, it works!

BTW--You can also go into the Maple Leaf Lounge now by adding it on to Aerogold and it comes with the Platinum Amex. I note that you can also purchase with most flts now for $25..no big whoop. Of course, I think the MLL is unimpressive anyways!:confused3

[calgarygary]

You just missed my last post Neil. I was only having a little fun and did not mean any bad feelings at all. Sorry you took it that way. :goodvibes

Andy, I appreciate that you were just having a little fun but many people visit the Dis, and other similar sites to educate themselves. That is certainly what first brought me here - learning how to get the most out of my WDW vacations. As education is one of the primary motives behind this site, many of us are diligent about correcting misinformation. My days of being an Aeroplan collector are long behind me so it is not out of loyalty to Aeroplan or AC that caused me to jump into the fray. Certainly there is nothing wrong with having fun on the Dis - we should all enjoy our time here. I only suggest that in having fun, we don't mislead those that came to learn.

[AndyMcV]

Andy, I appreciate that you were just having a little fun but many people visit the Dis, and other similar sites to educate themselves. That is certainly what first brought me here - learning how to get the most out of my WDW vacations. As education is one of the primary motives behind this site, many of us are diligent about correcting misinformation. My days of being an Aeroplan collector are long behind me so it is not out of loyalty to Aeroplan or AC that caused me to jump into the fray. Certainly there is nothing wrong with having fun on the Dis - we should all enjoy our time here. I only suggest that in having fun, we don't mislead those that came to learn.

Hi CalgaryGary

Well said and thank you for your input on the previous posts. I wasn't trying to mislead anyone as I was looking for infomation too. Infact you did correct some of my misinformation in which I changed my post and I'm thankful for that.

Andy

[FayeW]

Are you able to get a flight that costs $3000 in Canada for $75 from an airport in upstate New York?

I did just that using 40,000 Aeroplan points and found myself enjoying Executive First class on an Air Canada flight to Los Angeles and returned to Toronto from San Francisco. The $75 was the tax and departure fees I paid on that flight.

I know that I can fly my family of 4 roundtrip from Syracuse to Orlando for about $760 if I wait for a seatsale on Jetblue.

I just priced out return flights from Ottawa to Orlando and found a seat sale next week for $99. each way. I also found flights from Syracuse on Jetblue for $99 each way. To fly from Canada would cost $272.84 more, all tax and service fees. Now, if I was actually planning a trip for next week, I would jump at those prices from Air Canada, as it would save my 3.5 hours driving each way, a tank of gas, and at least one night in hotel so I would pretty much break even. HOWEVER, my experience has been, when I have been planning trips, that I never get those kind of prices for flights originating in Canada. The price I typically see is $2000+ (figures, they have great prices when I am NOT travelling :mad: ). I am going to add another $150 to the difference of $272.84 for the tax on that extra $1000, so now I am at $422.84 in taxes, that I assume I would have to pay anyway if I booked with aeroplan for the actual seats themselves. I might as well pay the extra $350 and save my 100,000 miles (I think that is what I would need for 4 round trip tickets to Orlando) and use them for a trip within Canada that I don't have an option to use a US origination.

The way I see it is that my 100000 miles would only have a value of the $350 + travel costs to Syracuse (lets say $200. in case we stop for a meal). $550. for 100000 doesn't seem like very good value, when I could use those same points to travel from Ottawa to St John's in stead, a trip that would cost us $1765.84 with $509.84 in taxes. Again, assuming I would have to pay the full cost of all of the taxes my 100,000 miles have more than doubled in "value" to save me $1256.

I have never used my aeroplan miles and may have this all wrong. I might be making assumptions about paying taxes, etc that are totally false. Please correct me if I am wrong. I would love to know how to make the best use out of them, since it appears I am stuck with them.

[amw]

I have never used my aeroplan miles and may have this all wrong. I might be making assumptions about paying taxes, etc that are totally false. Please correct me if I am wrong. I would love to know how to make the best use out of them, since it appears I am stuck with them.

Just for the sake of educating .... I booked 4 tickets to Orlando with aeroplan. Cost - 100, 000 aeroplan points. The flight is out of Pearson, so additional "airport taxes, charges and fees" for 4 tickets is $495.28 Cdn.

There's no way it would be worth my while to drive 3 hours to Buffalo, pay for a hotel overnight, and purchase 4 tickets on a basic carrier -- that certainly would total over $500, nevermind the time and hassle.

I agree that if you fly within Canada, it would be better to use the points then as those flights tend to be more costly.

I just wanted to reiterate that anyone flying out of Pearson are subject to those airport fees & charges regardless of whether the tickets are "free" or not and that has nothing to do with aeroplan.

[FayeW]

I just wanted to reiterate that anyone flying out of Pearson are subject to those airport fees & charges regardless of whether the tickets are "free" or not and that has nothing to do with aeroplan.

That's what I thought. It sounds like you pay whatever the taxes/a'irport service charges are for the tickets, even though the tickets themselves are free.

You and I obviously look at things differently as I believe you could absolutely get some sweet deals out of Buffalo in that $500 range (particularily with a DING on SouthWest). At that point the 100,000 miles you would spend to fly out of Pearson become worth whatever the additional cost over and above the $500 (you would pay in taxes to fly from Canada). So, if you were going to spend $500 in taxes and to fly from Buffalo would cost you $1000 (including gas, hotel, parking,etc; but this is a very high estimate!) your aeroplan points' value is now $500.

Spending an extra $500 and saving 100,000 for future travel (upgrading to first class, travelling to Europe or elsewhere in the world, etc) seems to be a much better use of travel miles, to me.

[bavaria]

I routinely use my Aeroplan miles for a business class long haul ticket on Lufthansa which would cost about $5,000-7000. The 'cost' to me is 80,000 miles and about $75 in taxes and fees.

Well worth it to fly 15 hours or more in business class with a lie flat bed and start my vacation refreshed

[drag n' fly]

I think this calls for a popcorn:: :lmao:

[RoyalCanadian]

Well worth it to fly 15 hours or more in business class with a lie flat bed and start my vacation refreshed

Are they giving out anything for free in 1st class on Lufthansa?

I had a good friend who was among the elite of the elite with Northwest Airlines (he was affectionately known as Air God to the Northwest frequent flyer telephone operators.) He used his NW super elite status for the upgrades to 1st class on KLM and filled curio cabinets with the Delft houses they gave away. He had entire sets of glasses from airlines. Several years ago I was at a party at his condo and noticed that all liquor was served in glasses from a variety of now defunct airlines.

Towels in the guest washroom at his condominium were imprinted with a variety of airline logos. Chairs were accented by the head rest covers from more airlines and the "Around the World" certificate he earned from Pan American Airlines held a place of honour on the wall of the condo.

All of this airline imprinted ephemera was given to him by the cabin crew of the airlines with which he flew -- none of it ever stolen.

That 1st class cabin sounds very comfortable on Lufthansa. Only 38,000 more Aeroplan Miles to earn. Good thing I'm shopping at Home Hardware tomorrow. That $14.99 head lamp will get me 7 more Aeroplan Miles + another 17 Aeroplan Miles earned if I charge it to my CIBC Aerogold Visa.

[FayeW]

I routinely use my Aeroplan miles for a business class long haul ticket on Lufthansa which would cost about $5,000-7000. The 'cost' to me is 80,000 miles and about $75 in taxes and fees.

Well worth it to fly 15 hours or more in business class with a lie flat bed and start my vacation refreshed

What airport do you usually fly out of, to only be charged $75? The taxes on the YOW-MCO flights were $109.(return. This includes approx. $35. in US fees for entering/departing the US.) I am trying to figure out why these flights would cost me $109. (some of which is GST, don't remember if there was also PST) yet you only pay $75. for a much more expensive flight. On a $5K flight, shouldn't the GST alone be $300.???

Clearly, there is something fundamental I don't understand about aeroplan. What am I missing? How do I get $75. return flights???

[bavaria]

Are they giving out anything for free in 1st class on Lufthansa?
.

I usually fly the A340 on my long haul routes, which has ONLY Business and Economy, no First. The goodies change in Business class; the amenity kit is usually similar items each time. The 'special' gift varies - the only one I think that I kept was the one from World Cup last summer. I don't recall anything on my India flights over the summer, but that may be because I was rather tired from all the flying (and rerouting all across India due to monsoons). All that I wanted was a lie flat bed and some German coffee and real Nutella for breakfast!

(oh, I DID book that trip during World Cup ie PEAK demand time from Canada to MUC 3 days before the flight on Aeroplan points, flying Lufthansa business class longhaul.... ;) )

But the Business product is definitely worth 'only' 20,000 miles more than the Economy service. Lufthansa longhaul economy is similar to AC economy in terms of seat pitch and those uncomfortable card board like seats.

[bavaria]

Clearly, there is something fundamental I don't understand about aeroplan. What am I missing? How do I get $75. return flights???

The taxes and fees depend on all airports not just departure airport. And it depends on the airline. For instance, if I fly AC to MCO I would have to transit via the dreaded YYZ. That would cost me about $105 in taxes and fees. (and the headache of Toronto, even though I have preclearance)

If I fly UA to MCO I transit via DEN or ORD, and pay about $70 in taxes and fees.

My Lufthansa flights are via FRA to MUC and the taxes and fees come up to about $75 or a little less.

I'm on the road about 300 days a year, so I don't always go on vacation from my 'home' airport - I may just go from a work destination. But the fees I quoted above are the average

[bavaria]

Clearly, there is something fundamental I don't understand about aeroplan. What am I missing? How do I get $75. return flights???

I just did a dummy booking

July 2008 YOW-MCO via either ORD or IAD, on United

Taxes and fees: $43.82

[RoyalCanadian]

But the Business product is definitely worth 'only' 20,000 miles more than the Economy service. Lufthansa longhaul economy is similar to AC economy in terms of seat pitch and those uncomfortable card board like seats.

This discussion got me to thinking this morning where I could fly with Lufthansa on the points I'm accumulating, and I recalled an offer to be pastor for 2 weeks in Wittenberg-Lutherstadt with the Wittengberg English Ministry I considered a few years ago.

So today I get to the office and the phone rings -- it's the director of the Wittenberg English Ministry asking me if I'd like to consider the 2 week pastorate again. The director had tracked me down from the congregation I was serving then to where I'm serving now.

The spirit moves in wonderful ways -- and apparently likes flying Lufthansa too!

[bavaria]

So today I get to the office and the phone rings -- it's the director of the Wittenberg English Ministry asking me if I'd like to consider the 2 week pastorate again. The director had tracked me down from the congregation I was serving then to where I'm serving now.

The spirit moves in wonderful ways -- and apparently likes flying Lufthansa too!

Or, the director reads the DISboards! :rotfl: Have a great time!