Terrible service at Liberty Tree Tavern - mandatory tip!!

[OhioDVC]

On Tuesday, Nov 20, 2007 we had dinner at Liberty Tree Tavern and had a less then magical time. Info as follows:

-Reservations made 6 months out
-6:40pm priority seating time
-Disney requested we arrive 15 minutes prior
-Arrived at 6:20 pm
-Waited and waited and waited
-We were seated at 7:15 pm
-4 tables of 8 were open when we walked through the restaurant
-1 of the tables was open for 15 minutes, - I could see it from the waiting area
-We were seated first of three other open tables for 8
-15 minutes before a server arrived to get drink orders
-two tables, one of 7 and 8 were seated after us and had drinks and salads before our server took our drink orders
-35 minutes from being seated until get got salad and rolls
-45 minutes from being seated until get got the main course on the table, the other two tables had seconds and dessert before we got our main course
-a total of 100 minutes from check in to main course on the table.
-other tables had a server who got drinks, another person who brought the salad and rolls, another server brought the main course and a bus person cleared the table. The one and only server we had did everything for us and three other tables, three of which were all seated at once!!

The bill came with an 18% tip included. I asked for the manager, Mandy, and explained the problem. Due to the poor service, I did not want to leave an 18% tip. Our server provided poor service due to the restaurant manager poorly scheduling available staff. Our server worked alone while others had 3-4 helpers. I requested that the manager compensate me 18% off the bill and still allow the server to get her tip. While the services was bad, she worked has hard as possible but was given just too much work to do. The manager REFUSED!

I said that then I refuse to pay a 18% tip for poor service. The manager REFUSED to take the tip off.

I charged the bill on my credit card and wrote on the receipt "Amount in dispute"

I then went to Guest Services at the front of MK and asked that I be reimbursed for the tip. After waiting for 15 minutes, I was told that the server worked hard and should get the tip. I informed them that I was a DVC member who just purchased 500 points ($56,000) on the members cruise and that I had the signed contracts in my room ready to turn in. I advised them that I was going to tear up the contracts and let DVC know why. I informed them that they were going to lose a $56,000 sale over a $47 tip, and I meant it!!!

It was amazing how fast their attitude changed. I was handled $47 cash in 30 seconds.

I am not CHEAP - but I tip based on the quality of the service. No tip is mandatory for poor service. I realized it wasn't the server's fault for the poor service, that is why originally, I asked for the restaurant to compensate me the 18% and allow the server to keep the 18% tip.

Liberty Tree Tavern will be the last place I eat at when visiting the MK and Mandy is the poorest restaurant manager I have ever run into.

The server got to keep her 18% tip. Supposedly, restaurant management will be talking to Mandy, I am not holding my breath!

Next time - Cape May Buffet!!! :scared1:

[DVC Mike]

I informed them that I was a DVC member who just purchased 500 points ($56,000) on the members cruise and that I had the signed contracts in my room ready to turn in. I advised them that I was going to tear up the contracts and let DVC know why. I informed them that they were going to lose a $56,000 sale over a $47 tip, and I meant it!!!


While I'm sorry that you experienced such poor service at LTT, I winced when I read the above. I think it contributes to the perception that DVC members expect special treatment just because we pre-paid our vacations.

I'm surprised that LTT refused to reduce the tip!

[sajetto]

While I'm sorry that you experienced such poor service at LTT, I winced when I read the above. I think it contributes to the perception that DVC members expect special treatment just because we pre-paid our vacations.

I'm surprised that LTT refused to reduce the tip!

Unfortunately this was my exact same reaction. I was right there with you and totally on your side until that moment. I completely understand your frustration with the service you received. I would be upset as well and would make sure I communicated that. However, I wouldn't use the fact that I was a DVC member as leverage for my argument.

[OhioDVC]

DVC Mike,

I NEVER asked for or expected special service due to being a DVC member. I mentioned canceling the contracts to show them how TOTALLY displeased I was for a mandatory tip for poor service. While we all like to think Disney is about MAGIC, it is really driven by profits like any other company. When they realized they were going to lose a large sale over a $47 tip, they quickly changed their mind - magic or profit - you decided.

time to get un-winced

[sajetto]

DVC Mike,

I NEVER asked for or expected special service due to being a DVC member. I mentioned canceling the contracts to show them how TOTALLY displeased I was for a mandatory tip for poor service. While we all like to think Disney is about MAGIC, it is really driven by profits like any other company. When they realized they were going to lose a large sale over a $47 tip, they quickly changed their mind - magic or profit - you decided.

time to get un-winced



Wow, aren't you touchy? I actually feel a lot more sorry for the CMs at Disney at this point. With that kind of attitude its no wonder you didn't get the response you were looking for from the manager at Liberty Tree :rolleyes:

[OhioDVC]

Being a DVC member had nothing to do with it.

Having $56,000 in contracts in my hand did.

I never asked for or expect special service as a DVC member, but to express my extreme displeasure over not being taken seriously, I was 110% ready to rip up the contracts to purchase additional ownership in DVC . If Disney does not value me as a customer, DVC member or not, I need to re-evaluate being a return customer.

[Lynne M]

Sorry that you didn't enjoy your experience at LTT. It seems that your biggest issue was with the delay in seating you after you checked in. Which really had nothing to do with the server, so I can see why they would not want to remove the tip from the bill.

When you have an ADR, it does NOT mean that you will be seated precisely at your ADR time. It means that you will get the first available table for your party size. During busy holiday periods, it's not uncommon to have a wait for your table - sometimes a long one. Yours was very long indeed, and I would have been very unhappy, too. The servers and the kitchen can also get backed up; also not uncommon.

But this is something that you will most likely experience again at WDW, especially if you plan to visit during holiday weeks. If it's something that you really can't tolerate, then I'd seriously consider getting out of your DVC contract. You won't be happy.

[OhioDVC]

Wow, aren't you touchy? I actually feel a lot more sorry for the CMs at Disney at this point. With that kind of attitude its no wonder you didn't get the response you were looking for from the manager at Liberty Tree :rolleyes:

Funny, I didn't remember seeing you there when I discussed the situation with the manager in a calm, business like manner. No inappropriate language, no loud voices, a purely business discussion. What "attitude" are you assuming?

[WolfpackFan]

Okay, let me see now. You got poor service, but want the server to keep her tip while the restaurant manager himself reimburses you for the tip. Then you threaten to cancel your DVC contract because of bad service at one restaurant. Interesting. It's a shame you spent the entire meal keeping track of what tables were getting what kind of service. Seems to me that it would have been a whole lot more productive to ask for the manager after about 30 minutes into your 100 minute ordeal instead of waiting until the end to complain.

[drag n' fly]

I agree that tips should be earned not expected. You did not ask but you did expect something by mentioning your pending DVC contract. It had nothing to do with magic or profit it had to do with someone possibly losing their job over a 47 dollar tip. You also had some responsibility in bringing your concerns forward during your time at the restaurant. Quite often you read about people complaining about poor service but did nothing until it was time to pay the bill. I suggest you sould have politely asked for assistance when your drink orders were slow being taken. People who own 50 points should receive the same treatment as someone who owns a larger contract.
Remarks such as mentioning your contract and the amount being paid for it was well ummmmmm......tacky and arrogant.

[sajetto]

Funny, I didn't remember seeing you there when I discussed the situation with the manager in a calm, business like manner. No inappropriate language, no loud voices, a purely business discussion. What "attitude" are you assuming?


By your quick reaction to DVCMIKE's reserved response it created what I consider to be a rather astute observation..... Yes, I'm sure you were very pleasant. ;)

[OhioDVC]

I agree that tips should be earned not expected. You did not ask but you did expect something by mentioning your pending DVC contract. It had nothing to do with magic or profit it had to do with someone possibly losing their job over a 47 dollar tip. You also had some responsibility in bringing your concerns forward during your time at the restaurant. Quite often you read about people complaining about poor service but did nothing until it was time to pay the bill. I suggest you sould have politely asked for assistance when your drink orders were slow being taken. People who own 50 points should receive the same treatment as someone who owns a larger contract.
Remarks such as mentioning your contract and the amount being paid for it was well ummmmmm......tacky and arrogant.

UMMMMMMMM- everyone deserves the same service!

I didn't try to make this a novel. My wife talked with the manager once and I talked with the manager another time during the night.

I identified, specifically, what I considered as poor service. The manager refused to reduce the tip for poor service, but I guess you would consider that friendly and helpful.

At Guest Relations, they also refused to reduce the tip, but I guess that also doesn't count as tacky and arrogant.

When GR told me that they were not going to do anything about the tip, I advised them that I was not satisfied and would pursue the issue through other means.

THEY (GR) asked what I was going to do. I then said I was going to cancel the contracts with a letter of explanation as to why to DVC and see if DVC could convince restaurant services that this was the wrong way to treat people. An effect way to get their attention when MK restaurant services refuses to listen to reason.

But you go ahead and pay an 18% tip for slow poor service. I'll expect to receive what a I pay for and willing tip for good services.

As a side note - before we left the restaurant I talked with our server, Lorriane, and explained that we were not happy with the service, but that we did not feel it was her fault. She actually thanked us. She said that the manager was constantly working the servers short-staff and in her opinion, felt totally overworked. She hoped that maybe the manager would finally listen because the restaurant was receiving a lot of complaints lately.

Now - do me a favor. Answer me this - I've notice that when people point out problems with Disney there is always a few zealots that jump on people for pointing out less then magical experiences at Disney. I visit Disney because I get the best vacation experience compared to other destination, but the Mouse isn't perfect!!! Any business must constantly evaluate its place in the market and the service it provides versus its competition. There has been times when I've been dissatisfied with Disney, but mostly, I'm very pleased with the experience. When things are not right, I voice my opinion and ask for it to be corrected. If we never say anything, nothing will ever get better.

But if it is not your style, continue to tip for bad service and things will stay the same.

PS - no one should ever lose their job over one bad comment. I'm sure Disney management is better then that, but IF someone isn't meeting standards in their position, maybe Disney should provide additional training or find them an area where they can excel!

I was promise a letter from MK restaurant services - Ill let you know what the response is once I get it.

[angelmav]

By your quick reaction to DVCMIKE's reserved response it created what I consider to be a rather astute observation..... Yes, I'm sure you were very pleasant. ;)

Sajetto, I think your piling on a bit with your comments. This is one of the negative aspects of having a service charge for tips. Had it been left to the discretion of the customer, perhaps this could have been avoided. When you have a problem with service, wait etc to the point you feel you justified in speaking to management, and said management refuses to do anything about it, it escalates the situation even further.

I would think that when you wait for close to 2 hrs for your main course, you have plenty of time to observe what type of service the other tables around you are receiving which can do nothing but add to the aggravation.

[OhioDVC]

Just a side note. I did not sit by with a stop watch checking out the service.

My sister-in-law was with us and she is a registered Dietician and has been in food service management for over 20 years. She currently teaches at a medium size university, about 16,000 students. She was very observant about the restaurant service. She was hoping on bring back very positive examples of food service management back to her students. That is was I had detailed info on the service. It came from her observations due to her personal interest.

[jarestel]

I would hope that if Disney really thought the OP's demands were out of line, they would have simply said (and continued to say) sorry, but no, you're not getting your tip back. Since they relented one can only assume that there was some substantial fire underneath all of that smoke.

But all's well that ends well. However the OP's story illustrates perfectly why I avoid WDW like the plague during holiday periods. No sense tempting fate.

[wildernessDad]

I agree completely with DVCMike.

[IloveDMB]

As a side note - before we left the restaurant I talked with our server, Lorriane, and explained that we were not happy with the service, but that we did not feel it was her fault. She actually thanked us. She said that the manager was constantly working the servers short-staff and in her opinion, felt totally overworked. She hoped that maybe the manager would finally listen because the restaurant was receiving a lot of complaints lately.

PS - no one should ever lose their job over one bad comment. I'm sure Disney management is better then that, but IF someone isn't meeting standards in their position, maybe Disney should provide additional training or find them an area where they can excel!



I'm sorry but if it wasn't her fault as you say, then why would you want her tip taken away? The 18% was hers, not the restaurants.

And if it wasn't her fault, then what standards isn't she meeting?

I'm sorry, I'm trying to understand the situation. As a former server, I'm always interested in customer's interpretations of "bad" servers.

[BriarRosie]

I can't see how everyone seems to be missing the point.

I am reading this and thinking, the OP had bad service that he attributed to bad management, not the server herself. He felt he had a valid complaint (and I tend to agree here) that because his server was carrying a load by herself while other tables were getting 3-4 servers helping, it was affecting the way HE was getting service....or the lack thereof.

While I agree that perhaps the reduction would not be the tip itself (but perhaps the meals themselves comped to equal roughly the tip amount) so that the server wasn't penalized...I agree with that.

I didn't agree with using pending DVC contracts as leverage, but that's just my opinon as a DVC member. But I can understand that if nobody was taking his complaint seriously, that really hit the nail home.

And what he did wasn't just for his own benefit. If LTT continues to be as inefficiently run as it was that night, I'm sure many people will be complaining to the manager and Guest Relations time and again. If WDW restaurant management would investigate this issue further, perhaps the problem will get addressed and fixed.

WDW is full of red tape bureaucracy, but every once in a while, you'll find cast members who actually do care enough to try to fix problems.

[drag n' fly]

UMMMMMMMM- everyone deserves the same service!

I didn't try to make this a novel. My wife talked with the manager once and I talked with the manager another time during the night.

I identified, specifically, what I considered as poor service. The manager refused to reduce the tip for poor service, but I guess you would consider that friendly and helpful.

At Guest Relations, they also refused to reduce the tip, but I guess that also doesn't count as tacky and arrogant.

When GR told me that they were not going to do anything about the tip, I advised them that I was not satisfied and would pursue the issue through other means.

THEY (GR) asked what I was going to do. I then said I was going to cancel the contracts with a letter of explanation as to why to DVC and see if DVC could convince restaurant services that this was the wrong way to treat people. An effect way to get their attention when MK restaurant services refuses to listen to reason.

But you go ahead and pay an 18% tip for slow poor service. I'll expect to receive what a I pay for and willing tip for good services.

As a side note - before we left the restaurant I talked with our server, Lorriane, and explained that we were not happy with the service, but that we did not feel it was her fault. She actually thanked us. She said that the manager was constantly working the servers short-staff and in her opinion, felt totally overworked. She hoped that maybe the manager would finally listen because the restaurant was receiving a lot of complaints lately.

Now - do me a favor. Answer me this - I've notice that when people point out problems with Disney there is always a few zealots that jump on people for pointing out less then magical experiences at Disney. I visit Disney because I get the best vacation experience compared to other destination, but the Mouse isn't perfect!!! Any business must constantly evaluate its place in the market and the service it provides versus its competition. There has been times when I've been dissatisfied with Disney, but mostly, I'm very pleased with the experience. When things are not right, I voice my opinion and ask for it to be corrected. If we never say anything, nothing will ever get better.

But if it is not your style, continue to tip for bad service and things will stay the same.

PS - no one should ever lose their job over one bad comment. I'm sure Disney management is better then that, but IF someone isn't meeting standards in their position, maybe Disney should provide additional training or find them an area where they can excel!

I was promise a letter from MK restaurant services - Ill let you know what the response is once I get it.


I just wished you had not dropped the DVC comment in there as it reflects on owners as a whole. I never tip for bad service. Honestly if I had to speak to someone that many times that you did I would of walked. What it boiled down to was an expected tip on behalf of the server not a earned one. If you were on the 2007 DDP I could understand them adding the tip. You certainly were treated poorly and the person handling the problem does need some management and interpersonal training. I am certainly not disagreeing with your concerns they are valid and they happen daily, I stayed at the the Grand Californian last week and believe me we recieved a level of service that was no where equal to what we were paying so I understand your frustrations....again it was the DVC comment that bothered me.
Good luck with the outcome please let us know how it was handled.:goodvibes

[sarose]

Didnt read all the responses, but I dont blame you. Actually a tip is worked for and a reward for a job well done. When it is given w/o effort, why work hard? Why go the extra mile? So since the tip is given, why not just treat the customers any way? Why did it take Disney looking at a contract to honor their customer? I was raised that the customer is always right. It is good business. I dont think the OP was looking for special privlages, just results and he took it to the extreme to get there. why did he have to take it to the extreme?

[Pumbaa_]

The OP was obligated to pay the 18% gratuity as he had a party of 8 and was not on DDP (he was paying with visa)

I am sorry you had such poor service and you did attempt to have it resolved during the meal. How unfortuante the manager could not resolve it then and there.

Hope the rest of your meals went better!

Just a reminder to posters, different opinions are great, but snarkiness, rude or sarcastic is not. This is your PSA of the day :thumbsup2

[Uncleromulus]

I find it interesting that the DVC business had any leverage at all. Disney surely knows that they will sell all those points to someone else, so the loss of that particular sale shouldn't have bothered them (financially) in any way.
And I doubt they would worry about any DVC "investigation" into the restaurant service issue at LTT. My guess is that DVC wouldn't REALLY care about that.

[barndweller]

I agree with the basic premise that the OP has put forward here. He is not just whining about the manditory tip like so many posters but actually followed through when he felt it should be removed. He was not complaining about a "bad server" but rather about "bad service" due to poor management. If more diners would do this, we might actually all benefit from better service instead of the steady decline we are all experiencing.

I wrote a letter to Disney expressing my dismay at the change in the menu choices lately, as well as the less than stellar service & general crammed seating at TS restaurants. I would like to see a real reservation policy instituted that requires a credit card hold & doing away with the stupid, ineffectual ADR system in place now. I stated that until something is done to stop the decline in the dining experience at Disney, I will not be returning. Of course, I received the follow up phone call telling me my opinion matters blah blah blah. But I know darn well that there are plenty of folks willing to put up with paying more & getting less just because it has Mickey shaped sprinkles on it. I guess my Disney dining days are over!

People complain constantly on here about declining service and rising prices but as long as everyone keeps throwing money at Disney it will just continue. We need to complain to Disney just as the OP has done. He did what everyone should do when they have been charged for something they did not receive. I say kudos to the OP for taking a stand.

[TLSnell1981]

This seems to be on ongoing theme at LTT. I'm calling to cancel my ADR this morning.

I think this issue is going to come up a lot in 2008.... with the change in the policy for "gratuities". I keep seeing posts that tell you to ask to have your tip removed if you are unhappy with the service. I have always suspected that this will not be the case.

I can understand the op's feelings at the time. They were happy and excited about their recent (large) investment in DVC. Having such an unpleasant and fustrating experience.....maybe left them a little deflated and unhappy. Just thinking I paid for that many vacations in advance and this was the less than Disney treatment I had received (from the manager) could unsettle anybody. It's not my style...but I can understand.

There seems to be many problems at LTT hopefully, things will improve. I also hope people don't count on removing the 18%, if automatically added to their check....I think they will be in for the same fustration as the op. I know many are sensitive to owners expecting different treatment, but I don't think that was what happened in this instance (well maybe as a last resort). I think the op really just needed to vent. Disney is kind of a personal thing for many of us. It really is "my happy place". I barely walk in the door before a smile comes across my face. I think disappointment at WDW is harder to accept than other places.

[MickeyNicki]

You cannot please all people all of the time but you can please some people some of the time. No matter where you go in WDW (or anywhere really) someone is going to have an issue with something, dining, resorts, parks etc. It is just a fact of life.

[barndweller]

This seems to be on ongoing theme at LTT. I'm calling to cancel my ADR this morning.

Good for you! I hope you tell them why you are cancelling. If enough people stop going to the restaurants that are poorly run or no longer offer decent menus & atmosphere, Disney will actually try to fix the problems. As long as people settle for being treated like cattle at overpriced troughs, Disney will just take the money & give the big bonuses to the suits in the boardroom. $$$ is the only thing that will get their attention.

[nerdboyrockstar]

I don't see where the original poster went wrong at all..

If you receive terrible service from a restaurant and are basically forced to leave an 18% tip, receive a terrible response from said restaurant management, and THEN receive an equally poor response from Guest Relations.. would your next logical step be to drop $56,000 to ensure you receive that same quality service time and time again, year after year?

Some of us need to stop snorting the pixie dust on here.

[TLSnell1981]

Good for you! I hope you tell them why you are cancelling. If enough people stop going to the restaurants that are poorly run or no longer offer decent menus & atmosphere, Disney will actually try to fix the problems. As long as people settle for being treated like cattle at overpriced troughs, Disney will just take the money & give the big bonuses to the suits in the boardroom. $$$ is the only thing that will get their attention.

I just got off the phone. I didn't really get the time I wanted for dinner, but I didn't want to chance it with LTT. I keep reading the same issues ...understaffed, poor management, etc. I did have an indepth conversation with the CM as to why I was cancelling. She commented that you usually only see bad posts. I told her that wasn't true and what concerned me the most.....was that it was the same complaints over and over. She was interested in that fact. It was interesting that she asked for much more info than I have ever been asked for while making an ADR.

[barndweller]

MickeyNicki
Your standard cliche statement has nothing to do with the point of this thread. Being pleased isn't the issue. Being charged for something he did not receive is the issue.

Personally, I don't care if a gratuity is automatically added or not. It is the custom in the US to tip for service and if the restaurant's policy is to do the calculation for me, then so be it. But I refuse to pay for anything I haven't received and so should everyone. As long as people meekly pay for service not given & quietly walk away, management will continue to short staff & cram more tables into the space. Service will just continue to decline and we will have only ourselves to blame.

[KevGuy]

Personally, I don't care if a gratuity is automatically added or not. It is the custom in the US to tip for service and if the restaurant's policy is to do the calculation for me, then so be it. But I refuse to pay for anything I haven't received and so should everyone. As long as people meekly pay for service not given & quietly walk away, management will continue to short staff & cram more tables into the space. Service will just continue to decline and we will have only ourselves to blame.

Amen, I agree completely with the OP too! I don't care who thinks what about using DVC as leverage, it got the situation to the OP's liking. It shouldn't have had to happen in the first place if the host/hostess was doing their job properly imo. Encore, I'd do it in a heartrbeat myself. Pay hard earned money for less than what should be received, no way not a chance. Way to stand up for yourself and speak up OP, and not just sit back and take it. Money is the bottom line at Disney a lot of times, and this just illustrated the point. Once they understood the possible loss of the sale it must have clicked that there would be a corresponing loss of a job. Then it was corrected in minutes, pretty magical.:thumbsup2

[susieq76]

So sorry to hear this happened to you! We had a bad experience at LTT this past February and we will not be returning soon, however, when I discussed it with Mandy she did try to rectify it somewhat and was super nice- she sent all three of my boys dolls & signed pics to our hotel (our problem was b/c of the horrid seat my kids could not get out to see the characters- nor could the characters take pictures with them- they waved!)

[TLSnell1981]

So sorry to hear this happened to you! We had a bad experience at LTT this past February and we will not be returning soon, however, when I discussed it with Mandy she did try to rectify it somewhat and was super nice- she sent all three of my boys dolls & signed pics to our hotel (our problem was b/c of the horrid seat my kids could not get out to see the characters- nor could the characters take pictures with them- they waved!)

I don't go to character meals for the food! I am so sorry for your kids....no hugs....no pictures with the characters? I would have been soooo disappointed. It seems like Mandy could have arranged for the kids to see the characters after their meal. I would have found this totally unacceptable.

[chorlick]

We had 6:30 reservations that night and we had an awesome meal. We did have to wait 1/2 hour, but the food and the service was terrific!!

[boomhauer]

This OP sounds an awful lot like another new poster on the resort board, belittling people for staying onsite. Oddly enough, he has the word "Ohio" in his username as well. One joined in November of 2006. The other joined in December of 2006. They both have under 40 posts.

Connection here? You decide:
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1646803

Hmmmmmm....:idea:

[barndweller]

This OP sounds an awful lot like another new poster on the resort board, belittling people for staying onsite. Oddly enough, he has the word "Ohio" in his username as well. One joined in November of 2006. The other joined in December of 2006. They both have under 40 posts.

So what? Look for conspiracy if you wish. The real issue here is declining service resulting in a poorer Disney vacation experience.

Being billed by Disney for something that you don't receive is still a valid complaint. Many others have posted the same type of experience. The continued willingness of people blinded by Disney pixie dust to just accept the decline in service at Disney is a real concern to those of us who expect more from Disney than your average chain restaurant or amusement park. If it is accepted by the masses, Disney will no longer be the best but just like any other among the many choices. Why would we want that to happen?

[barndweller]

I don't go to character meals for the food!

This is so sad. Since when is it okay to pay exorbitant prices for the oportunity to take pictures of your kids with costumed CM at WDW? This was always free before. The characters wandered throughout the parks, greeting the guests & posing for pictures. Now people call 6 months ahead to schedule time in a restaurant that serves cr-ppy food with lousy service at a ridiculous price so you can share your time with hundreds of other saps paying for the same priviledge? Wow, are those Disney execs clever or what! They are raking in the bucks for what they used to provide free to every Disney visitor. I just don't understand why you all just accept their marketing stategy like a bunch of sheep.

[satman1962]

How about if you receive poor service, food quality, bad atmosphere...you just don't go back to that establishment.

We spend all this money for goods and services and sometimes let's face it...things don't live up to the hype...


Move on...life's short.

[TLSnell1981]

This is so sad. Since when is it okay to pay exorbitant prices for the oportunity to take pictures of your kids with costumed CM at WDW? This was always free before. The characters wandered throughout the parks, greeting the guests & posing for pictures. Now people call 6 months ahead to schedule time in a restaurant that serves cr-ppy food with lousy service at a ridiculous price so you can share your time with hundreds of other saps paying for the same priviledge? Wow, are those Disney execs clever or what! They are raking in the bucks for what they used to provide free to every Disney visitor. I just don't understand why you all just accept their marketing stategy like a bunch of sheep.

It still is free. I don't like waiting in line. The children really enjoy the atmosphere at the character meals. I do it for them. And yes....Disney has a pretty good marketing department. Baaa! Baaa!

[NewJersey]

Troll alert.

[NewJersey]

This OP sounds an awful lot like another new poster on the resort board, belittling people for staying onsite. Oddly enough, he has the word "Ohio" in his username as well. One joined in November of 2006. The other joined in December of 2006. They both have under 40 posts.

Connection here? You decide:
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1646803

Hmmmmmm....:idea:

And we have a winner!!

[TLSnell1981]

And we have a winner!!

Methinks, we have multiples.

[Shooby doo]

Having read thru' the thread from page one I thought that I would add my simple thoughts: We in the UK don't complain enough & will pretty much sit thru anything & then vote with our feet.I wouldn't have been happy at the level of service,especially as tables close by appeared to be better "waited" on.I am confused as to why the manager wouldn't remove the 18% though,I understand that it is added automatically for parties that size but isn't it still your choice to pay it? And surely the server must have been asking management for help as he/she wasn't able to give the level of service required & was surely going to effect their earnings?
Would I have used the DVC thing-you bet!!If everything else had failed & I thought that that was the only way I was going to get "satisfaction" then yes BUT I find it very sad that it had to come down to that & that it was only the loss of so much money that changed Guest Services mind.:sad2:
SD:thumbsup2

[Toot Sweet]

On Tuesday, Nov 20, 2007 we had dinner at Liberty Tree Tavern and had a less then magical time. Info as follows:

-Reservations made 6 months out
-6:40pm priority seating time
-Disney requested we arrive 15 minutes prior
-Arrived at 6:20 pm
-Waited and waited and waited
-We were seated at 7:15 pm
-4 tables of 8 were open when we walked through the restaurant
-1 of the tables was open for 15 minutes, - I could see it from the waiting area
-We were seated first of three other open tables for 8
-15 minutes before a server arrived to get drink orders
-two tables, one of 7 and 8 were seated after us and had drinks and salads before our server took our drink orders
-35 minutes from being seated until get got salad and rolls
-45 minutes from being seated until get got the main course on the table, the other two tables had seconds and dessert before we got our main course
-a total of 100 minutes from check in to main course on the table.
-other tables had a server who got drinks, another person who brought the salad and rolls, another server brought the main course and a bus person cleared the table. The one and only server we had did everything for us and three other tables, three of which were all seated at once!!

The bill came with an 18% tip included. I asked for the manager, Mandy, and explained the problem. Due to the poor service, I did not want to leave an 18% tip. Our server provided poor service due to the restaurant manager poorly scheduling available staff. Our server worked alone while others had 3-4 helpers. I requested that the manager compensate me 18% off the bill and still allow the server to get her tip. While the services was bad, she worked has hard as possible but was given just too much work to do. The manager REFUSED!

I said that then I refuse to pay a 18% tip for poor service. The manager REFUSED to take the tip off.

I charged the bill on my credit card and wrote on the receipt "Amount in dispute"

I then went to Guest Services at the front of MK and asked that I be reimbursed for the tip. After waiting for 15 minutes, I was told that the server worked hard and should get the tip. I informed them that I was a DVC member who just purchased 500 points ($56,000) on the members cruise and that I had the signed contracts in my room ready to turn in. I advised them that I was going to tear up the contracts and let DVC know why. I informed them that they were going to lose a $56,000 sale over a $47 tip, and I meant it!!!

It was amazing how fast their attitude changed. I was handled $47 cash in 30 seconds.

I am not CHEAP - but I tip based on the quality of the service. No tip is mandatory for poor service. I realized it wasn't the server's fault for the poor service, that is why originally, I asked for the restaurant to compensate me the 18% and allow the server to keep the 18% tip.

Liberty Tree Tavern will be the last place I eat at when visiting the MK and Mandy is the poorest restaurant manager I have ever run into.

The server got to keep her 18% tip. Supposedly, restaurant management will be talking to Mandy, I am not holding my breath!

Next time - Cape May Buffet!!! :scared1:

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/TheAlienDragon/Kleenex.jpg

[maxiesmom]

OP--I just want to know what you would have done had you NOT been in the process of buying into the vacation club? :confused3

I understand your being upset, but the fact that you used your upcoming DVC membership as a threat is distasteful. I'm sure you couldn't care less, but it smacks of being a bully. If your service was poor from the start, you could have gotten up and left. And made sure the manager knew why you were leaving.

[Shell0616]

This thread made me so sad. You were angry for the long wait and the fact that the waitress was given to many tables/people to wait on. I would have been upset too. Really I would have been. However, I would not have withheld a tip that you yourself agreed was earned by your waitress. You can afford to spend $56,000 on a lifetime of Disney vacations and you can't give $42.00 to a person that you felt deserved it?

You were not hurting the Disney Corporation with your actions, you were hurting someone who was working way to hard to begin with. There had to have been another action you could have taken. Writing a complaint. Asking for a free meal. Fast passes. Whatever.

I don't have any issue with you threatening to take away your $56,000. It's your money and if you feel one bad experience is equal to 56K then that's your right. However, I'm sure you were aware of the 18% tip before you sat down. After you waited "100" minutes you chose to sit down anyway.

I don't mean to knock you. I really don't. I was just really sad that you never thought about who your actions were really effecting.

Shellie

[scottny]

honestly it is sad that this happened. u state the server deserved the tip but apparently you did not feel that way otherwise you would not have threatened using your DVC contract.

Sad that Disney did not say "no" to you.

Hope you spent the 40 something dollars wisely.

I have a ressie there in january and will not cancel I have heard many good reviews of it.

[schatterjee]

I find it amazing how many people feel that the tip is part of the deal no matter how bad the service is. In my book poor service equals a poor tip. Not just at Disney but anywhere - I think terrible service is fairly rare but if it occurs adjusting the amount of the tip is the proper response.

[scottny]

I find it amazing how many people feel that the tip is part of the deal no matter how bad the service is. In my book poor service equals a poor tip. Not just at Disney but anywhere - I think terrible service is fairly rare but if it occurs adjusting the amount of the tip is the proper response.

i just remember when i waited tables and made $2 an hour. I relied on those tips, everyone has a bad day so I just go on that and tip no matter what.

[Evi]

Wow, aren't you touchy? I actually feel a lot more sorry for the CMs at Disney at this point. With that kind of attitude its no wonder you didn't get the response you were looking for from the manager at Liberty Tree :rolleyes:

Sajetto why do you have to be a such a nasty thread killer???

Honestly I thought this was a place for one to post both good and bad experiences and honestly If I sat down for dinner and had a terrable expereince while on vacation I would notify managment. If I was not satisfied with the response and was about to drop 56k towards long term vacation I would bring it up since it is same company. I dont see how someone expressing how they felt slighted by there expereince requires so many people to be judgmental and nastly.

save the eyerolling for your children so that they can grow up to be grumps like you.......

maybe its time to have that Jesus talk.

[Minniespal]

What a shame you had such a bad experience.

[emmabemmainc]

Sajetto why do you have to be a such a nasty thread killer???



Doesn't being a thread killer mean that they have stopped a thread?

Just wondering..............:rolleyes1

[Pooh's-Honey-Pot]

I feel really sorry for the original poster!!!! If I had waited that long for a meal I would certainly complain, using whatever leverage I had available.

And maybe it's because I'm British and we don't tip as often over here (we do when on holiday I should point out!!), but I would have refused to pay the full tip if I received that level of service as well!! :) To me a tip is earned, not an automatic right.

[SemperFi]

Man! I'm new to this, been lurking awhile, and I have noticed anyone that dares suggest Disney has failed to perform up to a reasonable level always gets flamed and accused of trolling, etc by some posters. Is that fair? Is that even smart?

Aren't BBs the place to post concerns, ask questions, share info? And isn't that what the OP did? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't accepting whatever we are given, and however we are treated--no matter how poorly--the surest way to ensure slip-shod service and sub-par goods?

Honestly, folks. Disney is a business, not some sort of sacred cow. They should not be given a pass on poor service and/or bad attitudes because they are Disney, and it seems to me that saying, "Oh well, these things happen la de dah" is a bit of a cop-out.

Look, very few people want to spend precious vacation time complaining but sometimes it is necessary. For those that won't accept shoddy service and will calmly state their complaints, I say BRAVO! It's darn near a public service, for crying out loud. We have ADR's at Liberty Tree Tavern in a few weeks, and maybe the OP's complaints will have caused management to evaluate the situation and adjust as needed. In which case all of us who dine there post complaints will benefit, true?

Thanks for the heads up, OP.

As far as the DVC thing goes, so what if he played that card? Sometimes it takes a little hard ball to negotiate a succesful outcome. Please remember that Disney is a business--we may be called "guests" but the truth is we are staying there on our dime, not Disney's...and that makes us customers, and as a customer I expect to be treated fairly.

And ol' Mickey can take that to the bank.

:santa:

[scottny]

Man! I'm new to this, been lurking awhile, and I have noticed anyone that dares suggest Disney has failed to perform up to a reasonable level always gets flamed and accused of trolling, etc by some posters. Is that fair? Is that even smart?

Aren't BBs the place to post concerns, ask questions, share info? And isn't that what the OP did? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't accepting whatever we are given, and however we are treated--no matter how poorly--the surest way to ensure slip-shod service and sub-par goods?

Honestly, folks. Disney is a business, not some sort of sacred cow. They should not be given a pass on poor service and/or bad attitudes because they are Disney, and it seems to me that saying, "Oh well, these things happen la de dah" is a bit of a cop-out.

Look, very few people want to spend precious vacation time complaining but sometimes it is necessary. For those that won't accept shoddy service and will calmly state their complaints, I say BRAVO! It's darn near a public service, for crying out loud. We have ADR's at Liberty Tree Tavern in a few weeks, and maybe the OP's complaints will have caused management to evaluate the situation and adjust as needed. In which case all of us who dine there post complaints will benefit, true?

Thanks for the heads up, OP.

As far as the DVC thing goes, so what if he played that card? Sometimes it takes a little hard ball to negotiate a succesful outcome. Please remember that Disney is a business--we may be called "guests" but the truth is we are staying there on our dime, not Disney's...and that makes us customers, and as a customer I expect to be treated fairly.

And ol' Mickey can take that to the bank.

:santa:

my problem is not Mickey taking it to the bank but the fact the server could not take her tip to the bank when the OP said she did a good job considering the circumstances. Do not take it out on the help, write a letter to corporate office and fight it there. They do not make much money (I know I was hired once) and it is not fair to them when they r trying to do there job as best as they can. As for playing the DVC card it was the wrong way to go about it in my eyes.

[boomhauer]

Not sure if this has been brought up yet, but if the OP has such a problem with the length of time to be served, lesson learned - Don't go to character meals. They're SUPPOSED to take a bt longer.

Secondly, people have to remember, ADR's are not guarenteed reservation times. They are a hold on the next available table closest to your time. Just because there were empty tables, doesn't mean they weren't being held for somoene else.

To each his own. Personally, when I'm on vacation and eating a meal, unless I have somewhere to be, I don't look at my watch and worry about how much time I'm spending. And if do have someplace to be, I wouldn't eat at a sit down restaurant anyways.

I agree, having to wait that long for drinks is unacceptable. I often find when you handle a problem with courtesy and politeness, t tends to get resolved. It doesn't seen like the OP handled things as such. Throwing insults and demands isn't going to get you anywhere.

Lastly, I just have a very hard time believing that Guest Relations at the MK said the server deserved her tip because she worked hard. Then they asked the OP what they were gonna do when he said he was gonna take the problem higher. That makes no sense at all and sounds nothing like anything that a CM would ever say.

[PlutoLuvr]

Well, I'm not going to apologize for Disney dropping the ball and treating a paying customer like garbage.

Good for you, OP, for speaking up. And I don't blame you one bit for using your DVC as leverage. We actually do own a timeshare in Orlando, even though we've always lived a couple hours away. After a lot of thought, one of the reasons we decided not to purchase DVC was because of Disney dining. The past few years, it's also one of the reasons why we don't even stay onsite anymore for quick weekend trips down to Orlando.

And I do agree that character meals might take a bit longer, but I *thought* I read where other people were seated at the same time as the OP's family and LTT did not drop the ball with them; they were served promptly. And while I don't stare at my watch and count the minutes while dining, I would notice if I'd been waiting so long for a table, was seated with one or two more groups simultaneously, and they were already being served their salads and rolls while I'm still waiting for my drinks. That's crappy service, period.

Also, I see time and time again on these very boards with the "tip discussions" about how many people the servers have to pay out at the end of the shift, that the server isn't left with the full gratuity. They have to pay out the bartenders, the busboys and even sometimes the host/hostess. If that's the case at WDW -- particularly in OP's case -- everyone who wasn't able to provide satisfactory service (heck, even just adequate service, IMO) was impacted by this.

This was a service issue. Service to me means not just the server who fills my drinks, clears my plates and brings food. Service begins from the time I check in until my bill is paid and everywhere in between. Yes, my waiter or waitress is on the "front line," so to speak, and I think part of their job is to keep a fire under their colleagues' butts about certain things, i.e., the busboys clearing dishes, making sure my order is correct from the kitchen, tabulating my bill correctly, seeing my water is low and having the waterboy/girl pay a visit to my table, etc. So, yeah, if I go to a restaurant and end up with a server who thinks their job starts and ends with nothing more than taking my order, dropping it off in the kitchen and bringing me my check, all the while other service-related issues arise, you can bet my server's tip will be impacted.

What other options did OP have? He could have just paid the service fee for crap service, sure. But if he did want to contest something, what could he have contested? We can't really expect to have a portion of the manager's pay for dropping the ball; the busboys are tipped out from the servers, so it makes sense to adjust the tip -- er, I mean service fee since the busboys dropped the ball; and maybe the server, in the future, will do what she needs to do to get adequate help. I don't see asking for a dish to be comped as there didn't appear to be complaints with the food or kitchen.

I mean, when I walk into a restaurant (including WDW), I see two things: Food and service. This was a service issue, and WDW has made a decision for a lot of its customers about an automatic 18 percent service fee. I see posts daily -- sometimes hourly depending on the "news du jour" -- about how if service is shoddy, contest the 18 percent service fee, don't pay it, fight it. Well, here someone did it when they received garbage service. Good for them.

[TLSnell1981]

It's obviously going to be difficult to contest.....if at all. Post#211
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1633601&page=15

[maxiesmom]

What other choice did the OP have? They could have left! There are plenty of places to eat at Disney.

It is not acceptable to have to wait 35 minutes for you salad to arrive, but it is also not acceptable to deny a tip to a waitress that you see is working very hard! The OP admits that none of the problems they had were the waitress's fault, but that is who they choose to take their anger out on.

And what on earth do you expect the waitress to do to "get adequate help"? Go out on the street and grab people to help with the tables? That is ridiculous. I get comments like that all the time at the store I work at. People will be mad that I am the only one in my department, and that they have to wait for me to help them. Do you honestly think people choose to have to run themselves ragged? I know I would much rather have someone there to help me, but I have absolutely no say in who works or not. I'm sure it is the same for wait staff.

The OP did have a valid gripe, but punishing someone who you admit is trying their best is rotten. And throwing your weight around (I'm a DVC member) is distasteful as well.

[OhioDVC]

I really wish some of you would read!!!!!!!!!

The service was lousy overall!!

The service was significantly worst then the tables around us

It did not deserve a tip!!!!!!

The waitress worked hard but due to poor distribution of wait staff (Management Error) she provided poor service

I asked management to comp me the 18% tip so the waitress could still get her tip.

The WAITRESS DID GET ALL of the $47 of the tip

Management took the $47 out of Disney's huge take for the night

I DID THE RIGHT THING!!


I took care of the waitress making a couple of bucks an hour and identified a problem in the management of the restaurant to Disney so they could improve the service for everyone in the future.


I can't believe the attacks on this post. And to the idiot who thinks I have two log-ons--I don't--you are stupid! I know, you think Bush planned 9/11 too, right? Are you really Charlie Sheen?


Why do some of you ASSUME the worst about people. When talking to the restaurant manager and Guest relations - I never raised my voice, used foul language, or demanded special treatment because I'm a DVC member. I explained in a business like manor my compliant. When I didn't receive satisfaction, I used a time proven tactic....let the sales department know your dissatisfied and things will get corrected. Guest Relations REFUSED (initially) to make any adjustment. When they heard I was going to cancel a sale with DVC and make my complaint known through DVC sales department, they changed their minds immediately!!! ---- I wonder why? ------

I did this ONLY AFTER I GAVE the restaurant manager and Guest Relations every opportunity to correct their error!

To the person who says if I can afford $56,000 in points, I can afford a tip--Why? you tip for good service, not based on your income. PS I normally tip 20%-25% for good to excellent service in a resort area like WDW

Some of you need to get off the couch and get a job and work in the real world.

:thumbsup2 :thumbsup2

[TDC Nala]

Thread's run its course.