Walker's Opinions Please

[windwalker]

As everyone knows by now I'm purely a walker who does races, not a fitness walker and not a run/walker. As such I put in a lot of miles, normally 20 to 30 a week and during training for marathons I get over 40 miles some weeks.

There are hundreds of thousands of walkers like me out there, several are right here on the WISH site. I'm part of the fastest growing sport in the fitness world.

Now the problem: Not one of the shoe companies markets to us. We have unique needs in shoes. Running shoes with their high and cushioned heels are not good shoes for a fast walker. The shoes the copmpanies market as "Walkers", are heavy and designed for mall strolling. There are some good shoes out there but it's a struggle to find any as most stores don't carry them. The racing flats are some of the best but again most stores don't carry them. We need a little cushion and a lot of flexability, a wide toe box is often needed as well. You can try spend a small fortune trying to find a proper shoe. New Balance came up with a racewalking shoe, but it's to high on the sides and causes pain on the underside of your ankle bones with any decent miles. So they discontinued it instead of improving it.

Wouldn't it be nice to see shoes designed for endurance walkers? Tested by walkers and marketed to walkers?

I'm going to try and get a shoe company to listen to me on this. The market is wide open because there are hundreds of thousands of potential customers and no competition.

I want to see what some of you other walkers thought about this idea and get any feedback and others ideas you might have. I'm going to approach Nike, New Balance, Mizuno and Brooks to start. You guys know I don't mind asking the questions, it's just hard to get anyone to listen.

If I can get anyone to listen would anyone like to be a tester? It would be nice to have some testers linned up if a shoe company were to be interested.

Walker Panda:hippie:

[Steffwalks]

Count me in!

[windwalker]

Count me in!


Cool. I just finished emailing Brooks.

Baby Needs New Shoes Panda:hippie:

[funwalker]

Wouldn't it be nice to see shoes designed for endurance walkers? Tested by walkers and marketed to walkers?

Walker Panda:hippie:[/QUOTE]

What a great :idea:
Not sure If I walk enough miles to be considered, but I am willing also.

Enjoy His 'Son' shine!
~Margie

[DianeL]

Susan is a walker who has a horrible time finding shoes that work for her. She had a pair of those clunky more for hiking than marathoning walking shoes that did see her across the finish line in Jan 2007. I can't remember what she wore for the ToT. but I know when we got home she went shoe shopping again. I won't even hazard a guess as to how many shoes she's tried this year and she's still searching.

I'm going to let her know about this thread.

Good luck with the quest Dave!!!!

[nepatsfan73]

I'll volunteer to be the "Big Man" walking shoe tester. It would be good to have a walking shoe designed for the portly set. I can't run because of my artificial hips, but larger people in general could use a good distance walking shoe as the impact of running isn't necessarily good for larger people's joints even when healthy.

[perfectmatch300]

Me too! I especially have a problem with lack of flexibility in shoes. Either I don't have enough support or not enough flex. I usually go for the support, but the stiffness of the shoe then makes it hard for my little feet to do anything like a proper rolling motion so I slap a lot when I walk which is not good at all. I also am right there with you about the wider toe box without making the heel too wide as well.

[monte]

Dave, I hear ya. I have a terrible time finding the right shoe/fit especially since I developed PF. I recently bought a pair of Brooks, Gs5 MoGo, and so far they feel wonderful. The sales rep. really worked with me in finding the proper shoe with just enough cushion and support. I'm very happy with them.:)

[windwalker]

The more I thought about this today the more it ticked me off. As far as the shoe companies are concerned we don't exist, we are just walkers after all, who cares what our needs are, the question is how to get us noticed.

You can pick up any sports magazine and see ads for "Running and hiking" shoes, when have you seen an ad for a marathon walking shoe? Have you ever heard of a shoe designed for the marathon walker?

Soap Boxing Panda:hippie:

[Tiger Lily 03]

Dave I think you have a great idea. Don't give up that would be the only thing I could offer.

Someone has to be out there that will be able to listen and be able to get it to market!

[nepatsfan73]

**Dave** Do you think it would help if I wrote a letter about distance walking shoes to Pearl Izuma (sp?)? I could include a picture of myself as well and offer to be part of their advertising campaign. ;)

[sassparillo]

I think it's a great idea. I'm a heavy walker so I bet I bring in a whole new set of issues. I'd try some shoes out :)

[ohMom]

count me in as an endurance walker needing neutral shoes to fit my orthotics and maybe i won't have shin splints, tendonitis, and bursitis :teeth:

seriously..count me in

[gatorphipps]

WOW Dave! I just cannot believe there are no walking shoes out there! Lots of luck!

As you know, I am not a walker...heck, I hardly even take walk breaks during a run...but anyway...my mom is a walker and she may be interested in testing.

Thanks for doing this! I say, you are the "cool Panda"!:)

[windwalker]

I got an answer. This is the answer I got from Brooks Shoe Company:

Hello Dave,



Thank you for updating us on your product footwear request regarding racewalking shoes. Your message did promote some discussion with our footwear development team, and will forward this link to them so they can check out this dialog. Thanks again and please let us know if we may be of additional assistance.


Regards,
Brooks Sports Inc

[nepatsfan73]

Dave-- I have been somewhat happy with the Brooks Beast shoes, which are what I currently wear. They seem to support my size and hold up well (which is important to me as a big guy with joint issues), but as the walking distances increase, they just don't feel right. I think it is because of the sole design/heel thickness, which makes landing on the heel and rolling to the ball of the foot slightly challenging and I generally end up with more of a slapping type/flat landing. Of the few types of shoes I've tried so far though, they seem to be the best for me overall to this point.

[westcliffemom]

I'm in! I'm using Asics right now, but would love a specially designed walking shoe! Brooks would be great!

[KelNottAt]

I'm in. I've gone from NB to Asics to Saucony to Brooks and still can't find anything right. :headache:

[perfectmatch300]

Dave, it's encouraging to hear that you at least got a response! Now let's hope it gets beyond the discussion stage! Maybe you could tell them how many testers you have already lined up? Think that would help?

[windwalker]

Dave, it's encouraging to hear that you at least got a response! Now let's hope it gets beyond the discussion stage! Maybe you could tell them how many testers you have already lined up? Think that would help?


I even emailed John Bingham today to see if he had any ideas to pass along. Since he was the one who made it ok to be a slow runner.

Walking Panda:hippie:

[windwalker]

Brooks is a good company that makes no nonsense shoes. They were my shoes of choice since the 70s when I was a more serious runner.

I'm hoping that a company will develop shoes for people who walk distance races at paces from 15 min per mile to 12 min per mile. That group is the fastest growing trend in the sporting world and I can't believe no one thinks we are a market.

I guess we are looked at as a passing fad. But we have been steadily growing in #s since the 90s. Several marathons now cater to walkers, Portland, Nashville, The Flying Pig and of course our own beloved Disney events.

Maybe if more of us approached the companies.

Shoe challanged Panda:hippie:

[Steffwalks]

That makes sense, Dave. Since, you have the addresses, give them to the rest of us, that way we don't have to duplicat all your hard work. Did that make me sound lazy, today??:rolleyes1

[windwalker]

That makes sense, Dave. Since, you have the addresses, give them to the rest of us, that way we don't have to duplicat all your hard work. Did that make me sound lazy, today??:rolleyes1

Connie here is the link to Brooks, none of the others have even given me a response. Nike is un approchable. I guess they don't care about customer comments.

http://www.brooksrunning.com/corporate/contact.phtml

Walking Panda:hippie:

[princessrunner]

Dave, did you try New Balance? I have a sort of in as my running partner from ToT's mother is in charge of marketing here in Maine so I can approach her for either help or a contact if you would like. :confused3

I used to always run in Saucony or Asics shoes but now have this high arch supination problem which causes PF so I have had to switch to Nike or New Balance shoes. :scared:

[windwalker]

Dave, did you try New Balance? I have a sort of in as my running partner from ToT's mother is in charge of marketing here in Maine so I can approach her for either help or a contact if you would like. :confused3

I used to always run in Saucony or Asics shoes but now have this high arch supination problem which causes PF so I have had to switch to Nike or New Balance shoes. :scared:


I emailed NB and didn't get a positive response. They thought I was trying to get free shoes. They made a racewalking shoe but it's to high on the sides and rubs the ankle bones. I have heard this same complaint from several other racewalkers. Racewalkers would buy one pair and wear them a couple of times and give them away just like I did. If that shoe were lower on the sides around the ankle bones it would be very good. They have from what I've heard decided to discontinue it instead of improving it. It was a horrid bright blue and orange also. It was the 111 model.

Yes please talk to your friend. There is a tremendous market for a shoe that is designed for serious marathon walkers.

Any help would be super, Thanks.

Walking Panda:hippie:

[princessrunner]

Dave, I will try to talk with her this weekend. I am going to stop by the outlet store we have here today and query about this model and/or replacements for it or suggestions in its place. They have been very knowledgeable and helpful in the past. We have a manufacturing plant here in my little town of Norridgewock and another larger one in Skowhegan with an outlet store. They make most of the uppers here in Maine!!

[funwalker]

Thanks, Dave!

To think someone will actually listen to us.
Brook's are the shoes I have worn for the past couple of years, but they sure could use some major improvements for walkers. We need them to understand walkers are out on the road longer than a runner.

The weight is not bad, but if they would lower that heel it would be so much easier to walk at faster speeds and they would be lighter!

The adrenaline's I now have are great for the first five miles. My feet swell summer & winter, so I need a more roomy toe box.

Also I have to wear extra padding under my ankle bones until they are broke in because they are to high in that area! So much for not needing to break your shoes in.

Sad...but yes, with all these problem they are still the best I have found to work with for my feet.

[Mizuno guy]

Hi Racewalkers,

If you are looking to find a great transitioning, lightweight model with a low midsole profile then you will want to take a look at the Mizuno Wave Revolver 4 or Wave Idaten 2. You can check them out at mizunousa.com. Click on "Running" then "Track and Field" then "Racing" Please keep in mind that they are offered in unisex sizing down to a size 5.

Sorry guys I tried to attach direct links but the system gave me an error. I hope this helps and happy walking...

[Creativebeth]

I have been watching this thread with interest. Dave you are awesome to be working on this for everyone!

Thanks also to "mizuno guy" for directing the dis'ers to see what your company has to offer. I myself have been running (slowly) in Mizuno's for my last two pairs and have really liked them. Previously was in Asics, but started to have problems with them. It's nice to get a direct response!

Beth

[windwalker]

Hi Racewalkers,

If you are looking to find a great transitioning, lightweight model with a low midsole profile then you will want to take a look at the Mizuno Wave Revolver 4 or Wave Idaten 2. You can check them out at mizunousa.com. Click on "Running" then "Track and Field" then "Racing" Please keep in mind that they are offered in unisex sizing down to a size 5.

Sorry guys I tried to attach direct links but the system gave me an error. I hope this helps and happy walking...


Hello Mizuno guy: I wear your Revolver 4 as my primary racing and training shoe and have been promoting it to others. I understand it's being replaced by the Revolver 5 wich will be available in Feb 08.

I have a couple of questions for you to pass along to your company:

Why don't you market your product now as a short to middle distance walking shoe so walkers will be more aware.

Second, your shoe is good and the heel is a good height, however the shoe I'm asking for is a long distance shoe, marathon walkers are on the average out on the road 6 to 7 hours. We need more support and more cushion. Not a huge amount but some, especially along the entire sole, not just heel. We push off on the toes so a little more cushion there would be nice. You can't use a thicker insole because it takes away the toe box room which is very necessary.

Thank you for your response, it's wonderful that you contacted us.

Dave

[jeanneg]

Thanks for responding, Mizuno guy! (You may not have been able to post a link because I think you need a minimum number of posts to do so)

The shoes I presently wear are Wave Rider 10s in a Wide width. I am fairly happy with them, but they wear out very quickly...particularly on the inside.
There are not too many choices available for shoes in a Wide width and so these are the best ones I've found so far. Another concern for walkers is that whereby most runners have a small to mid-sized frame, there are alot of distance walkers that would be considered to have a large frame thus requiring extra support. I recently did a search for shoes on one of the major running sites using wide width and large frame and ended up with zero choices. There's a large market for sturdy distance walking shoes that is presently not being serviced. Hope you can help!

[windwalker]

Jeanne thanks for bringing that out. That reminds me of something else I need to bring up.

The long distance waklkers are for the most part the baby boomers. I'm 56 and I'm pretty sure the majority of the marathon walkers are in the 40 to 70 age range. We need a bit more padding and support. We are not the young elite runner, our needs are a bit different.

Another issue is the height of the shoe under the ankle bones. When you are walking on roads that are slanted for drainage for 6 hours it puts lots of pressure on the ankle bones if there is not a lot of clearance.

Dave

[windwalker]

double post sorry

[MiniGirl]

Hi Racewalkers,

If you are looking to find a great transitioning, lightweight model with a low midsole profile then you will want to take a look at the Mizuno Wave Revolver 4 or Wave Idaten 2. You can check them out at mizunousa.com. Click on "Running" then "Track and Field" then "Racing" Please keep in mind that they are offered in unisex sizing down to a size 5.

Sorry guys I tried to attach direct links but the system gave me an error. I hope this helps and happy walking...

Thanks for responding Mizuno Guy. My last pair of shoes were Mizuno Wave Creation 7. I went with the men's shoe because my feet are too wide to fit into the women's shoe. I really liked them, but the running store was out when I went to get new ones, and I ended up with a pair of Nike Air Pegasus. They felt like they had better cushioning. However, even after about 4 or 5 miles in those the balls of my feet are hurting. I never walked that far in my Mizunos because I am a new walker, but I do regret not waiting until they were back in stock.

I am a new walker and am learning that my pace is faster and I'm able to go faster longer if I use a smaller stride, so I think flexibilty and cushioning are key things to consider. I'd love to see a walking shoe specifically for fast and/or endurance walkers. I really am at a point where your average mall walking shoe just doesn't cut it -- although those are great for those who need them.

Anyway, I'm off to check out the site to see the shoes you recommended. Thanks for the web address. Keep posting, and you'll be able to post a direct link.

[Mizuno guy]

Hello Mizuno guy: I wear your Revolver 4 as my primary racing and training shoe and have been promoting it to others. I understand it's being replaced by the Revolver 5 wich will be available in Feb 08.

I have a couple of questions for you to pass along to your company:

Why don't you market your product now as a short to middle distance walking shoe so walkers will be more aware.

Second, your shoe is good and the heel is a good height, however the shoe I'm asking for is a long distance shoe, marathon walkers are on the average out on the road 6 to 7 hours. We need more support and more cushion. Not a huge amount but some, especially along the entire sole, not just heel. We push off on the toes so a little more cushion there would be nice. You can't use a thicker insole because it takes away the toe box room which is very necessary.

Thank you for your response, it's wonderful that you contacted us.

Dave

Hi Dave,

See below for the answers to your questions.

1) Why don't you market your product now as a short to middle distance walking shoe so walkers will be more aware.
I will forward this query to our Marketing Department as a possible addition in the future.

2) If one of our flats will not fit the bill regarding the amount of protection offered then you could go up to one of our performance trainers like the Wave Precision 8 or Wave Elixir 2 as they both will have a slightly thicker midsole profile. (23mm/11mm in the Elixir and Precision vs. 22mm/10mm in the Revolver or Idaten)

[Mizuno guy]

Thanks for responding, Mizuno guy! (You may not have been able to post a link because I think you need a minimum number of posts to do so)

The shoes I presently wear are Wave Rider 10s in a Wide width. I am fairly happy with them, but they wear out very quickly...particularly on the inside.
There are not too many choices available for shoes in a Wide width and so these are the best ones I've found so far. Another concern for walkers is that whereby most runners have a small to mid-sized frame, there are alot of distance walkers that would be considered to have a large frame thus requiring extra support. I recently did a search for shoes on one of the major running sites using wide width and large frame and ended up with zero choices. There's a large market for sturdy distance walking shoes that is presently not being serviced. Hope you can help!

Hi Jeanne,

I am glad to hear that you are currently using our Wave Rider 10 model. Please keep in mind that we design our shoes differently than other footwear manufacturers. We actually design our shoes to fit specific foot types and not body types. For this reason it is best to visit your local Mizuno dealer and have your gait and foot type analyzed to ensure that you are making the best choice for your particular needs.

[princessrunner]

Dave: I PM'd you some NB info. I did not get to talk to the person I had wanted to and will try to get in touch with her over the weekend.

The model that the men's specialist in the store recommended was the RC1001 which is actually a performance running shoe with more mid and forefoot cushioning. Being that I am not a racewalker, I will have to defer this to you. He said that he remembered seeing something about a race walking shoe but that he would have to do more research and get back to me. I also have a card with the address in Lawrence, MA if you need that too.

My issue is that I have really narrow feet and high arches which make my choices probably as slim as the wide width problem. I wish there was a "perfect" shoe out there that we did not have to put orthotics in or wear blister pads!!!!!!!!!!

[westcliffemom]

Okay, Mizuno guy, you convinced me. I bought some Mizuno Elixir @ runningwarehouse. (no WISHD discount on Mizuno, though!)

Thanks for the suggestions.

[MiniGirl]

Okay, Mizuno guy, you convinced me. I bought some Mizuno Elixir @ runningwarehouse. (no WISHD discount on Mizuno, though!)

Thanks for the suggestions.

Oh... I like 'em, and they're lime green to boot. :thumbsup2

[westcliffemom]

Oh... I like 'em, and they're lime green to boot. :thumbsup2


Yep! I could of gotten them cheaper on shoes.com, but they were royal blue! So I opted for more $ (about $5- after rebate from paypal & Sunshine rewards) to get the lime green!

[windwalker]

Hi Dave,

See below for the answers to your questions.

1) Why don't you market your product now as a short to middle distance walking shoe so walkers will be more aware.
I will forward this query to our Marketing Department as a possible addition in the future.

2) If one of our flats will not fit the bill regarding the amount of protection offered then you could go up to one of our performance trainers like the Wave Precision 8 or Wave Elixir 2 as they both will have a slightly thicker midsole profile. (23mm/11mm in the Elixir and Precision vs. 22mm/10mm in the Revolver or Idaten)


Mizuno Guy, thanks, but please allow me to clearify.

I wish I could go to the store and try on a pair of the Precision 8s so I could speak from that knowledge. The only Mizuno shoes available in my City, Bowling Green Ky, is the Wave 10 and the Inspire, these are at FinishLine, which sponsors me in in my walk races. The other stores don't carry Mizuno and Finishline doesn't carry other models, and the store manager can't order anything that their corp doesn't stock.

I go through a pair of Revolvers a month and have single handedly bought the 'running warehouse' out of size 9.5 Revolvers this year. I discovered the Revolver at the Flying Pig Expo in Cincinnati. I have never seen a pair in a store.

When I compare the pictures of the Percision and the Revolver: The Revolver has a much lower heel than the Percision and the Revolver is lower under the ankle bone than the Precision.

This last is important since when you are on the road for 6+ hours the slanted road surface can cause pain on the lower side of the ankle bones. This was the reason the New Balance 111s were not a hit with walkers even though the rest of the shoe was a very good design for endurance walking. The shoe was cut very high on the ankle bones and caused injuries. Rather than correct that they have discontinued them.

I have worn the Brooks ST lightweight trainer, the counter part to your Percision and it's a good shoe except for the sole being to rigid. The revolver is just right in flexibility.

The low heel is important because heel height works against a smooth walking stride:

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rayzwocker/worldclass/animated.htm

(This is not me it's Dave McGovern, but an example of the walker stride at a world class level) This is the ideal stride but the majority of walkers are not this efficient. The most are from 15 to 12 mpm walkers.

Here are some reviews by walkers on different shoes they have tried. That is the problem there is not a single company that designs and markets a shoe for endurance walkers of which there are hundreds of thousands of us. So what we have for information is internet talk and advice from runners who can't identify with the needs of walkers:

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rayzwocker/worldclass/shurevuw.htm

There is a company, Hershey, that makes a walking shoe for marathon and racewalkers, if you order a pair expect six months to get them and they are currently not even taking new orders since they are so far behind.

http://walking.about.com/library/walk/blherseyshoes.htm

Notice the low heel and low sides under the ankle bones?

Sorry about being so long winded.

Dave

[funwalker]

Hi Racewalkers,

If you are looking to find a great transitioning, lightweight model with a low midsole profile then you will want to take a look at the Mizuno Wave Revolver 4 or Wave Idaten 2. You can check them out at mizunousa.com. Click on "Running" then "Track and Field" then "Racing" Please keep in mind that they are offered in unisex sizing down to a size 5.

Sorry guys I tried to attach direct links but the system gave me an error. I hope this helps and happy walking...


Hi,

A couple of years ago I was fitted and purchased a pair of Mizuno's at the 2005 Columbus Marathon Expo.

I had a love hate experience. I finally had to throw them away...after three miles the outer sides of my feet truly hurt. I wore them to be fitted at the local Gazelle Sports Store to get replacement shoes. They told me that this shoe over corrected my pronation. All I knew is it hurt too much to wear them.

[windwalker]

Hi,

A couple of years ago I was fitted and purchased a pair of Mizuno's at the 2005 Columbus Marathon Expo.

I had a love hate experience. I finally had to throw them away...after three miles the outer sides of my feet truly hurt. I wore them to be fitted at the local Gazelle Sports Store to get replacement shoes. They told me that this shoe over corrected my pronation. All I knew is it hurt too much to wear them.


Hi Margie. That was the fault of the person at the Expo not the company. I like the Revolver so well that I pay for them when I could get whatever FinishLine carries free. But the Revolver isn't quite cush enough for the long races.

My respect for the Mizuno company is even higher since they sent some one to listen to what we have to say.

Dave

[windwalker]

Okay, Mizuno guy, you convinced me. I bought some Mizuno Elixir @ runningwarehouse. (no WISHD discount on Mizuno, though!)

Thanks for the suggestions.


Please Stacey, let us know how you like them.

Dave

[windwalker]

Good morning walkers.

I hope our new friend and shoe advisor is with us again today. I invited the walkers from the other side of wish to join us and talk about their shoe issues also.

Dave

[westcliffemom]

Hey, I read in this month's Health magazine that Asics has a new shoe out designed for treadmills. It's called Gel-Treadmill. Sounds interesting for us treadmillers!

[funwalker]

Hi Stacey,

On an average how many miles do you use the treadmill each week?
Are you going to try the Asics Gel-Treadmill shoes?
Please let me know if you do. I would be interested in a 'Real Person' report. I have always thought my foot falls were very different on the treadmill than outdoor walking and needed different shoes!

But I do dislike the treadmill and only use when I absolutely cannot get outside.

I save a pair of shoes for treadmill use only. And cleaning the soles of my shoes each time is a big negative, but I do not want repairs due to sand, grit, or small stones either.

Love this thread. :thumbsup2

[windwalker]

Here is the reply we got from my hero John Bingham.

Thanks for writing,

It’s a great point. Saucony tried to create a “run/walk” shoe a few years ago, but it didn’t go anywhere.

Let me know what you find out.

Thanks,


John
John "the Penguin" Bingham
Columnist; Runner's World Magazine
National Spokesperson; Team in Training


I hope Brooks or Mizuno sends someone else over to talk to us.

Dave