Masked men rob couple at DTD

[mitros]

Orange County deputies are searching for 2 robbers who they said ruined a couples Halloween date when they jumped out of nowhere and ran off with their cash
Deputies said the couple was ambushed by 2 masked men at about 2 A.M. in a back parking lot at DTD. The men carried guns and demanded money, according to deputies.
After the couple handed over everything they had, the men took off. Deputies later found the masks,but are still searching for the robbers.

[Peter Pirate 2]

Yeah, that Downtown Disney sure has that Disney Magic I'm so looking for, armed robberies, gangs, pipe bombs, kidnappings...Oh boy:rolleyes:

pirate:

[ToddS]

Time to start charging admission; I think someone else on this board may have suggested something similar on an earlier thread. A nominal fee like $5 per person or so, and free admission to anyone with valid park admission for that day or a multi-day pass. It might not solve all the problems, but it could help. I'd gate the parking lot, too.

[EUROPACL]

I wonder if this is the same robbery?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-cfbriefs02x_107nov02,0,4588947.story?track=rss


Clown robbed us at Disney, couple tell cops
November 2, 2007

Orange County - A couple walking along the waterfront in Downtown Disney early Thursday found nothing funny about the clown they encountered. He robbed them.

Kelan Browne, 18, and Chelsie Ector, 19, told Orange County deputies they were walking in a secluded part of the popular tourist spot about 1:20 a.m. when the gun-toting clown, accompanied by a man whose face was hidden behind a dark hoodie, took their cash.

The clown demanded: "Give me all you got," according to a Sheriff's Office report. Browne took his wallet out of his pocket, removed his identification card and handed it to the clown.

The two robbers then ran toward the Virgin Megastore, looking back at their victims before disappearing into the dark. Deputies later found Browne's empty wallet near the front of the music store and located a backpack containing the mask near Cirque du Soleil.

[raidermatt]

Yes, it's the same one.

[JMR859]

I wrote a letter to WDW about 10 months ago in regard to my lack of safety in DTD. I'm 6'3, 247lbs. and have been in Law Enforcement for 14 years. I felt completely unsafe the night my wife and I visited. I could not believe how out of control the place was. And WDW security was no where to be found! It's sad that WDW is compromising everyone's safety, just to make more money by not charging admission.

[Nascar48]

Time to start charging admission; I think someone else on this board may have suggested something similar on an earlier thread. A nominal fee like $5 per person or so, and free admission to anyone with valid park admission for that day or a multi-day pass. It might not solve all the problems, but it could help. I'd gate the parking lot, too.

Metal decators and bag checks at entrances could probably help too.

[Uncleromulus]

Now what happened to all the overwhelming security I had been reading about when other DD "incidents" were being discussed on the Board??

As for us, we only go to DD during the day--and that mainly to shop at the Disney store. If we eat any meals there, we get there early and leave the area just as soon as we're done eating. That of course dosen't help those many folks who enjoy "nightlife" and are up and about at 1:30 in the morning. For them, I'm not sure what the answer is--

[drakethib]

This is a shame.

With the price we pay for our trips, Security should not be something that is lacking.

[dicanio10]

I wrote a letter to WDW about 10 months ago in regard to my lack of safety in DTD. I'm 6'3, 247lbs. and have been in Law Enforcement for 14 years. I felt completely unsafe the night my wife and I visited. I could not believe how out of control the place was. And WDW security was no where to be found! It's sad that WDW is compromising everyone's safety, just to make more money by not charging admission.

Did you go to a different DTD to us then? You've got to be kidding! Out of control? Completely unsafe? Come on! How many incidents have been reported? Not as many as in some small towns in the UK, I'll bet. We were there in September and walked around until the early hours and never felt threatened once. People were just enjoying themselves.

Get a grip! Get things into some perspective! It ISN'T '70's Bronx like some people are describing it.

[paulh]

Did you go to a different DTD to us then? You've got to be kidding! Out of control? Completely unsafe? Come on! How many incidents have been reported? Not as many as in some small towns in the UK, I'll bet. We were there in September and walked around until the early hours and never felt threatened once. People were just enjoying themselves.

Get a grip! Get things into some perspective! It ISN'T '70's Bronx like some people are describing it.

what a lot of yanks dont realise is that in uk its common to see drunks and fighting in our high streets at night.Downtown disney is very tame compaired to where you and I live,so any crime is big crime and reported as such
Paulh

[drakester]

I'm just wondering how it is Disney's fault that there are horrible people in the world?:confused3

[Peter Pirate 2]

I'm just wondering how it is Disney's fault that there are horrible people in the world?:confused3

So Disney is basically responsible for nothing?
pirate:

[Luv2Roam]

Disney seems they can't win.
If they have security question people and throw them out, then they are over reacting,
When something bad happens, then there are claims of under reacting and no security.
We have been to DTD numerous times. And I won't say robbery cannot and does not happen. However I feel much safer at DTD than any other local mall or shopping center. But it can happen anywhere.
Actually we see a lot of security and Orange Co police when we are there.
The worse part for us at DTD is finding a parking spot. :rolleyes1 How anyone could make a fast getaway at DTD is beyond me. They must have a getaway driver somewhere. :confused3

[drakethib]

Disney seems they can't win.
If they have security question people and throw them out, then they are over reacting,
When something bad happens, then there are claims of under reacting and no security.
We have been to DTD numerous times. And I won't say robbery cannot and does not happen. However I feel much safer at DTD than any other local mall or shopping center. But it can happen anywhere.
Actually we see a lot of security and Orange Co police when we are there.
The worse part for us at DTD is finding a parking spot. :rolleyes1 How anyone could make a fast getaway at DTD is beyond me. They must have a getaway driver somewhere. :confused3

I just think since DTD is such an open market, there should be an abundance of securty. I know I don't go as often as some people, but we do make many trips and I would like to see a little more security and police force.

Someone made the comment of gating DTD and I am all for it. There should also be admission charged if you are not staying onsite or a DTD hotel. Just my 2 cents YMMV

[Peter Pirate 2]

Well, we go to City Walk a lot now and while I'm sure it has its own problems, I haven't seen any and I will say that we felt a lot more unsafe at DTD on our last trip there. Honestly, I've been very surprised by this but Disney isn't stepping up to the plate. They want it all (all demographics intermingling) without providing the 'famed' Disney security in this location.
pirate:

[Uncleromulus]

I wonder sometimes if Diseny isn't sorry they built this whole area up (beyond the original marketplace and Empress Lilly) and attached their name to it.

[EUROPACL]

I wonder sometimes if Diseny isn't sorry they built this whole area up (beyond the original marketplace and Empress Lilly) and attached their name to it.

I doubt it, it lets them close the parks earlier and puts another mickey hand in your wallet if you want to do something past 9:00 pm.

[rodkenrich]

Time to start charging admission; I think someone else on this board may have suggested something similar on an earlier thread. A nominal fee like $5 per person or so, and free admission to anyone with valid park admission for that day or a multi-day pass. It might not solve all the problems, but it could help. I'd gate the parking lot, too.I wonder if we need to initiate a petition for Disney to start charging admission and beefing up security in the same maner that Disney hired Orange County Sheriff deputies to monitor speeders on the roadways throughout the resort.

[Buckeye Gal]

Time to start charging admission; I think someone else on this board may have suggested something similar on an earlier thread. A nominal fee like $5 per person or so, and free admission to anyone with valid park admission for that day or a multi-day pass. It might not solve all the problems, but it could help. I'd gate the parking lot, too.

I wonder if we need to initiate a petition for Disney to start charging admission and beefing up security in the same maner that Disney hired Orange County Sheriff deputies to monitor speeders on the roadways throughout the resort.

IMO, charging a nominal fee to a non-park-ticketed guest will not ward off criminals nor contribute to a budget to have noticable increased security. Shoot, even if a robber is willing to pay $50 for a park ticket, they may think (and it's likely reality) they're going to get hundreds of dollars by pick-pocketing or conducting an armed robbery for cash and credit cards, so what is $50 for a ticket anyways (in their mind, of course!).

As much as it's undesirable to think about, it's a fact that crime will happen at your local mall or big city festival where security is present or anywhere else like DTD. Of course we have no idea, nor would Disney want to publish it, just how much crime is prevented or caught on their properties.

One final thought directly associated to the OP's report...

At Halloween time, I would think it's even easier to go more "unnoticed" when you can run around wearing a mask to blend in with others who are dressed in costume to enjoy the festivities of the holiday.

Just my opinion. :)

[TSR6]

I wonder if we need to initiate a petition for Disney to start charging admission and beefing up security in the same maner that Disney hired Orange County Sheriff deputies to monitor speeders on the roadways throughout the resort.

They already hire Orange County Sheriff deputies to come in and patrol DTD.

Disney pays them at their overtime rate.

[mitros]

Did you go to a different DTD to us then? You've got to be kidding! Out of control? Completely unsafe? Come on! How many incidents have been reported? Not as many as in some small towns in the UK, I'll bet. We were there in September and walked around until the early hours and never felt threatened once. People were just enjoying themselves.

Get a grip! Get things into some perspective! It ISN'T '70's Bronx like some people are describing it.

Get a grip!? No need for this kind of talk. Good for you that you did not feel it was dangerous at DTD. But please let others express their opinion without you telling them to "get a grip". :sad2:

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

DTD can't have an admission charge any more than a shopping mall can have an admission charge. No one is going to pay $5 to go there if there was a charge. And let me assure you that locals make up a hefty percentage of the customers at DTD stores, restaurants and Pleasure Island. I'm sure there were numerous robberies around Orlando last week (and wherever you live too) but this one got the huge publicity because it happened at Disney. Last night was like every Saturday night at DTD.....Orange County sheriff's deputies all over the place and Disney Security quite visible too. Those of you who say you've been there and have not seen security must not be looking.

I wrote a letter to WDW about 10 months ago in regard to my lack of safety in DTD. I'm 6'3, 247lbs. and have been in Law Enforcement for 14 years. I felt completely unsafe the night my wife and I visited. I could not believe how out of control the place was. And WDW security was no where to be found! It's sad that WDW is compromising everyone's safety, just to make more money by not charging admission.

OMG, you're 6'3", 247lbs and you're in Law Enforcement and you're SCARED at DTD? It was "out of control" and you felt "completely unsafe"? What the heck are you talking about? You need to describe the situation you encountered because you've described no details and those are pretty strong statements.

BobK/Orlando

[Peter Pirate 2]

DTD can't have an admission charge any more than a shopping mall can have an admission charge. No one is going to pay $5 to go there if there was a charge. And let me assure you that locals make up a hefty percentage of the customers at DTD stores, restaurants and Pleasure Island. I'm sure there were numerous robberies around Orlando last week (and wherever you live too) but this one got the huge publicity because it happened at Disney. Last night was like every Saturday night at DTD.....Orange County sheriff's deputies all over the place and Disney Security quite visible too. Those of you who say you've been there and have not seen security must not be looking.



OMG, you're 6'3", 247lbs and you're in Law Enforcement and you're SCARED at DTD? It was "out of control" and you felt "completely unsafe"? What the heck are you talking about? You need to describe the situation you encountered because you've described no details and those are pretty strong statements.

BobK/Orlando
What are you talkin' about??? DD is full of gangs, underage kids on drugs or alcohol and prostitutes...What are you lookin at? I've been to DTD many times and City Walk, as I've stated, and DTD is worse and this isn't even taking into account that Disney is SUPPOSED to be better than EVERYONE else...:eek:
pirate:

[boomhauer]

Knock on wood, I have never felt unsafe at DTD. Maybe it's because we usually use Disney Transportation.:confused3

[ChrisFL]

Well, we go to City Walk a lot now and while I'm sure it has its own problems, I haven't seen any and I will say that we felt a lot more unsafe at DTD on our last trip there. Honestly, I've been very surprised by this but Disney isn't stepping up to the plate. They want it all (all demographics intermingling) without providing the 'famed' Disney security in this location.
pirate:

I think Citywalk may be safer just due to the layout of the area with the parking garages, etc. it's a lot more difficult to make a full getaway there than it is at DTD.

Perhaps they should, as much as I hate to say this, lower the amount of entrance/exit areas through DTD. That would make it easier to post officers at those locations. Right now there are a lot of areas people can go in and out freely, which is understandable. Or it could be done only after a certain hour, so the daytime shoppers would have easy access to all of the stores.

[goalie5hole]

What's the cutoff line-the sidewalks? help crossing the road? escort to your car and home? where does it end? Very few if any parking areas (anywhere)are patrolled by police or security. Police can't be everywhere and neither can Disney security.

[ChrisFL]

What's the cutoff line-the sidewalks? help crossing the road? escort to your car and home? where does it end? Very few if any parking areas (anywhere)are patrolled by police or security. Police can't be everywhere and neither can Disney security.

I didn't mean the parking lot, I meant actual walkways into the shops/clubs

[Jason71]

what a lot of yanks dont realise is that in uk its common to see drunks and fighting in our high streets at night.Downtown disney is very tame compaired to where you and I live,so any crime is big crime and reported as such
Paulh

That's actually not uncommon in the States, as well--say, in downtown Orlando or even a couple blocks off-property outside Backstage Billards. DTD is the exception--which is why a single robbery there can generate such an up-in-arms reaction.

[PurpleAlegria]

What are you talkin' about??? DD is full of gangs, underage kids on drugs or alcohol and prostitutes...What are you lookin at? I've been to DTD many times and City Walk, as I've stated, and DTD is worse and this isn't even taking into account that Disney is SUPPOSED to be better than EVERYONE else...:eek:
pirate:

prostitutes???? r u freakin serious?????:confused: No, i don't think so, have been over 20 times easy and never seen that..... might just be some slutty looking FL gals... lol ( don't freak, I am born and raised in FL, and I am not saying all fl girls look like that, but alot of them do).....makes me ashamed to live here sometimes....:sad2:

[G8RFAN]

We park in the lot behind HoB often and I've never felt at risk. In fact I was there 8 nights ago where my DS and I played a couple of hours at DQ. On a whim, I stopped by Sosa and picked up a nice Fuente. We walked along the lake all the way to SSR and and back to our car parked right behind the Blues Brothers cruiser replica. This was around 10:00-10:45 on a Sat night. Not once did I think I was putting myself and my son in any danger. I must have seen security on mountain bikes patrol the parking lot stopping at anyone hanging out in the parking lot to see what they were doing at least a dozen times. There was also another security detail in a SUV patroling exclusively in that lot. When I first walked out there, there was an OC sheriff out there, but they drove off earlier. I did not see any prostitutes, drug dealers, gangs, or underage drinking anywhere. Prostitutes cruising DTD. That's rich. I guess they need to study their demographics a little better or else they will starve.

[Peter Pirate 2]

Some of you don't see it so it isn't there, that's what the criminals like about tourists with too much pixie dust in their eyes...:love:

Further this is hardly isolated anymore...An armed robbery, kidnapping and a pipe bomb all within a year (and those are just what I've heard of)...Hardly seems like Disney has the area under control. Of course some of you compare DTD to any other shopping locale at which any number of untold ills could occur...You see I hold Disney to the higher standard they built their business and reputation on. If they're not capable of keeping us safe, fine but that's not the way Disney used to be just a few short years ago.
pirate:

[allisonswonderland]

I was there 2 years ago late, in the parking lot and I just felt creepy. Not in DTD itself but just in the lot. I was with my brother and his girlfriend and my husband. I lived in DC for 2 years so I keep an eye on what is around me, granted I am from a small town but I am not stupid. It was the side by the bars, now I have been there in the evening near the shops and di not feel really THAT nervous, like I did that one night, I just could not shake that feeling.

[Kaler131]

I have also been to DTD many times and I have not once felt unsafe. Tourist or not, most people know that any time they are out in a public place to be aware of their surroundings. I still have NEVER felt threatened or unsafe anywhere on Disney Property.

[mitros]

Some of you don't see it so it isn't there, that's what the criminals like about tourists with too much pixie dust in their eyes...:love:

Further this is hardly isolated anymore...An armed robbery, kidnapping and a pipe bomb all within a year (and those are just what I've heard of)...Hardly seems like Disney has the area under control. Of course some of you compare DTD to any other shopping locale at which any number of untold ills could occur...You see I hold Disney to the higher standard they built their business and reputation on. If they're not capable of keeping us safe, fine but that's not the way Disney used to be just a few short years ago.
pirate:

Exactly.............

[raidermatt]

Pleasure Island, and specifically Pleasure Island, not the Marketplace or West Side, can get a bit sketchy at night. It's a direct function of the types of entertainment offered and the crowd they are marketing to. That's not to say everyone, or even most who enjoy it are "problems". But nightclubs and the like do attract a different crowd than World of Disney or the Theme Parks.

There shouldn't be any question about this. Disney has made some rather public efforts to deal with the problem, including banning a list of individuals a few months ago.

[MassJester]

As an important preface, I've never felt threatened or even concerned while in DTD, however I've often thought that there was less visible security pressence than the venue deserves.

Part of my job is to conduct surveys and give advice on security and safety issues, and I think that this venue in particular, but the large parking areas in general present a significant opportunity for crimes against property and people.

That said, there may well be a substantial serveillance program that is not as visible.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Further this is hardly isolated anymore...An armed robbery, kidnapping and a pipe bomb all within a year (and those are just what I've heard of)...Hardly seems like Disney has the area under control.

Appears that the armed robbery did happen.
General consensus on the kidnapping was that it didn't happen.
Pipe bomb did happen and some kooky kid from Kissimmee was arrested when he put another one along the TOLL 417 expressway.

So take this out of Disney World and put it in your hometown. How can you prevent someone from putting a pipe bomb in a public space? How can you prevent someone walking in a secluded place late at night from being a crime victim? You simply can't stop every bad thing from happening and Disney is not immune from someone determined to do something bad.

Disney doesn't ever guarantee your safety. But there are few places in the country where you're safer!

BobK/Orlando

[theantibride]

OKay, I'm a passholder and go there all the time. I've been there during daytime and at nighttime (late, past 2) and have never once not felt safe. There are always a ton of sheriff deputies around, IMO. I see more of a police presence there than I do at the local mall. I'd like to note that in this article it mentions these people were in a secluded and darker area late at night. Um, that's just exposing yourself for a chance. I had to file a report with the sheriff for a lost item and an admission fee will not keep criminals out. Pickpocketing is such a huge problem at the theme parks because the local criminals buy an annual pass and then more than make up for it in the goods they snatch from tourists who have dropped their guard cause they are at Disney. In this day in age you can never be safe anywhere and you need to be aware of your surroundings. If it's after dark and nearby shops are closed, don't go off into a more secluded area. Stay where it's well-lit and there are people. As for a kid putting a pipe bomb in the area, I'm not surprised. Kids take guns into school! People go on massive killling sprees. The thing is that it got found before it hurt someone. As for prostitues, something tells me you spied the sweet young things going to Pleasure Island to party away. I hate to say it but most of the young females (the term ladies here would be a stretch) going into the clubs are dressed as scantily clad as possible and yes to some people do look like streetwalkers, But unless they came up to you and said "hey buddy, wanna pay me a $100 and I'll do naughty things with you" I don't think you could call them prostitiutes. There are far scarier places (complete with actual prostitutes) in Orlando where I won't drive through -- in daylight! My mum works at a mall in the Atlanta area and someone gets arrested at least once a day there for pickpocketing, theft, concealed weapons, and more. And they have the highest safety rating and lowest crime of any mall int he area. The fact is that what you think is safe may not be and what may not appear to be safe may be safer than you think. But you have to use common sense and be constantly aware of your surroundings no matter where you are -- be it at Disney or Smallsville, Somewhere. And walking around a dark and secluded area at 1 something in the morning after all the stores have closed is just not using good judgement. And remember, although you may not see Disney security uniforms I guarantee you that they are out there dressed as the common man to catch people tryingt o get away with stuff. Also if you see anything big or small that makes you feel uneasy go into the nearest store/restaurant/club and tell a staffer there. They will go get someone. I saw a mother berating her child and slapping him across the face at DTD. I told a cast member and they called the sheriff in and all I had to do was point her out and they took care of it. Not even the best security team can be everywhere at every moment so if you see something you need to mention it and be being vigilant and speaking up we can then make the world a safer place..... Climbing off of my soap box now.

[SingingMom]

I have to admit, I have felt unsafe in the DTD area - we felt very isolated waiting a very long time for the resort bus. We've just made it a family decision that we don't go late at night anymore. If we decide to stay at Pleasure Island to see the comedy show this year, we'll take a taxi back.

[Peter Pirate 2]

Well, DTD is lot more unsafe than my hometown so that argument doesn't hold up with me.:cheer2:

And yes if you're prudent and constantly aware (as you always should be) then DTD will probably be OK but it's sad that even here on a fan board that so many people are willing to give Disney a free pass ... What more could they do? How could they prevent petty crime? How could they make the parking lots safer? I don't know how but I know THEY COULD IF THEY REALLY CARED.

Disney sells the pixie dust, the magic, the total escape and it is incumbant on them to make these promises stand up. This is a Company that makes millions upon millions and yet some folks think it's OK that DTD is simply safer than downtown Orlando or most major cities ... I'm saying that's not OK. Crime may not be rampant at DTD, as the hyperbole makes it out to be, but there should be virtually no worries whatsoever, IMO.

Disney is more than happy to take these huge profits, not so happy to actually live up to the ideals that the Company was built upon anymore.

pirate:

[G8RFAN]

Well, DTD is lot more unsafe than my hometown so that argument doesn't hold up with me.:cheer2: ....
You may live in a vacuum, but WDW is not in your neighborhood. I had my camera stolen on a cruise ship. Not only was there a $1500 "entry fee" but everyone had to walk through metal detectors and ingress/egress for theives is far from convenient. What else would you have suggested other than telling me that I should have had a better eye on my camera? If your hometown is so sheltered, I question your ability to spot all the riff raff you claim you have seen. I live in S. FL and few places are more challenged in crime. We are always vigillent traveling, shopping, pumping gas, etc.

[Peter Pirate 2]

Well, I live in "Souther" Florida than you;) ...Due to the problems that proliferate in South Florida and Orlando (where we have a second home in Celebration, so WDW kind of is in my neighborhood;) ) I am fully aware of the dangers and surroundings...Heck, I won't even make eye contact with other drivers in Miami/Ft. Lauderdale.

I realize that bad things can happen anywhere but I'm saying Disney can take some of their profits and make all of their properties safer than they are now, if they really cared. But they're banking on people being "grateful" that Disney's illusion of safety and actual record of being "better than downtown Orlando" is good enough...Good enough isn't good enough for the Disney I grew up with. That Disney actively tried (and succeeded) in exceeding the guests expectations and I'd certainly think guests safety would be a higher priority than is seems to be.
pirate:

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Antibride, excellent post.

G8RFAN, ditto.

Peter Pirate, sorry. You've offered no suggestions as to how Disney is going to eliminate all crime from its property. But please share the name of your hometown that has no crime so that I can move there. I live in a gated community with security and crime has happened here too.

BobK/Orlando

[Kaler131]

Mayberry???? LOL!:rotfl:

[Uncleromulus]

What Pirate is saying seems to be this: this is Downtown DISNEY, not downtown Orlando, or downtown Baltimore. This is WDW property--but unfortunately, it's wide open to anyone who wants to wander on in. And that's exactly what they do.
Solutions--probably none.
Except just don't go, which is my personal solution.

[Peter Pirate 2]

I didn't say we had no crime where I live (we have theft and the occasional bar fight) but nothing that in 25 years has worried me as a resident in the least. I live in Marathon, Florida, btw (I thought most people knew that but I forgot it was on the original Peter Pirate's sig and not PP2).

The Mayberry comment seemed a bit snarky though.:confused3

I didn't realize you guys were waiting for ME to offer suggestions for Disney's woes but OK...Start with the parking lots. Eliminate free access by charging for parking or simply having everyone pass through guarded entrances. Eliminate the number of enter/exit points into DTD itself, especially on the Westside. Again have everyone enter through carefully screened/monitored portals. Third, a return to more visible security...This almost always keeps people from wrongdoing.

So I've offered three very rudimentary options that would probably do the job but I'm absolutely sure Disney experts could do better, IF THEY CARED.
pirate:

[MassJester]

I think the easiest, and least intrusive modification would be to put more uniformed security folk into the area. A visible pressence almost always has a positive impact on both peoples' perception of security and the manifestation of criminal acts.

[tink4ever]

We spend a couple of vacations a year in disney and I have to say I agree with Peter Pirate 2. Our 3 children have grown up with Disney and now are 20, 19, & 15 years old. So they have been roaming for a couple of years now by themselves with their friends, etc. But every time they leave to go to DTD I am afraid. Now they don't stay all night because they are still underage and my 15 year old hasn't done this yet but they are out until midnight atleast walking around and people watching as it may. So I agree that maybe charging admission or needing a pass to get to all of the DTD area is a good idea. I want to be able to send my kids to have a good time because they have grown up believing this is their "magic place" in this crazy world. I just think we should feel just as safe in DTD as we do in all of the other areas of Disney. :cheer2:

[G8RFAN]

It's night. Although the parking lot is well lit, there is a lot of shadows cast between the crowded parking lot of SUV's and vans. You choose to walk between the cars rather than the 60 or so feet to the well lit and open pathway. Suddenly, the sliding door on a van with dark tinted windows opens as you walk by and you freeze. However you see a kid jump out with a sibling yelling to stop and give back the gameboy. You breath a sigh of relief and walk towards the entrance again. Before you get there, you see a large car with loud music blaring and you see the passenger hanging out the window yelling at a group of about a dozen urban dressed teens walking out towards the parking lot and ... you. You are on high alert mode right now and have thoughts of turning around and going back to the room. The gate they installed around the entire parking lot creeps you out even more as you feel like you've just entered cell block A. You say to yourself, "The hell with this, why did I pay $10 to park and come here? I can buy the same damn things in the parks." "I should have turned the car around at the guard gate when they drilled me on why I was driving in. Plus, those SWAT guys with that German Shepherd and mirror to look under my car really should have clued me in."


Two things. One, no matter how you present it, if you attract teens and young adults as patrons, you will have some people who will go thru "gang anxiety". Malls also face this same exact issue. Second, defining what a gang is and profiling measures becomes very serious issues for a company like Disney. We have already seen backlash and ulimately, if all you do is saturate an area with security that is soley cosmetic without the authority to do anything, then you have not acheived a single thing except for looking inept. Realistically, how do you keep the riff raff out without borrowing from the Agusta National's playbook? Make it unaffordable, make it difficult to cause mischief, make it a well known fact that they are not welcome at DTD all the while making sure that welcome mat is out and warm and friendly so that they feel and breath the pixie dust? Yet, make damn sure that no innocent people are accused of being riff raff or make sure you are not profiling a certain race? Very tough without 1. removing every venue that would attract young people or 2. create a security presence that makes a statement without making the headlines.

When I grew up, I lived in a neighborhood where everyone's front door was unlocked or open and screen doors were really the only thing barring entry into one's house. We had block parties for the 4th of July and everyone kids made extra money mowing lawns or shoveling snow. Odds are, many of you grew up in the same environment. I think Celebration's mission statement was to recreate that sense of home and neighborhood thru infrastructure and controls. HOA's have become popular because of it too. If and/or when I feel that WDW is no longer in control of it's own property, I'll just have to find another slice of heaven elsewhere. I hear Sante Fe is nice.....

[Peter Pirate 2]

I understand the very nature of the demographic will cause inherent issues but as I said we frequent City Walk quite a lot and never have half the consternation we feel at DTD despite the fact that all of Universal is generally geared to a rowdier demographic (my opinion, of course). As ChrisFL said it is probably due to the limited access/exit manner at CW but DTD could conceivably acomplish something along these lines too.

pirate:

[G8RFAN]

Citywalk is a secured zone by design. Whether you walk in by one of the pathways from the resorts or the boat launches, parking garage, or the shuttles, you are going to have your bags checked. Could someone throw an unchecked bag in the dark to someone already on a boat launch without being seen? Sure. Could someone smuggle something in strapped to their body? Absolutely. Could someone be waiting in a car by the shuttle drop off for their partner in crime after a purse snatch or robbery? absolutely. It doesn't happen because there really isn't any place in Citywalk that you can do something without being in the open. However, I certainly don't feel any more safe in US's parking garages or parking lots than at DTD. And in my personal experience, the worst I've seen at DTD was not as bad as the confrontation that we saw a Cityplace because one guy "looked" at another guy funny. Anyhoo, I mentioned my cruise ship incident before as proof that no matter how tighly controlled you may have the "property", you can always experience crimes. A lot of people "suk" and fortunately in this country they have the freedom to do the same things that the people who don't suk do. We just need to keep an eye out. I know Disney does care. Just like cities and municipalities allocate only a portion of their budget to police and fire, without these incidents and subsequent high profile reporting, the metrics wasn't there for the bean counters to allocate more security. That I guarantee you has changed. I've seen it with my own eyes.

I think was also "lost" is the number of people at these venues. DTD by far handles a greater number of people flow. How you manage that flow with security is very challenging if you want to make it "secure". Most of the crimes and alleged crimes we have seen at DTD has been in the parking lot areas or in the very remote areas. I don't think any amount of security short of the explosive sniffing dogs could have thwarted the pipe bomb. I happened to be there at DTD that weekend and while it made the news, I only found out through my friend calling me on the cell phone. A guard at the entrance and/or exit of the parking lot is not going to affect the gangs and "elusive prostitutes" as long as they pay the paltry price to get in.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Eliminate free access by charging for parking or simply having everyone pass through guarded entrances.
Charging is not an option. They are competing with other shopping venues and no one is going to pay to shop. Pointe Orlando has done it and it has been a failure. What are guarded entrances going to do? Are they going to check ID's?


Eliminate the number of enter/exit points into DTD itself, especially on the Westside. Again have everyone enter through carefully screened/monitored portals.
I believe there are currently 5 entry/exit points; they could indeed reduce them and make it harder to make a quick getaway. Not sure the traffic could handle having so few entrances and exits though.

Third, a return to more visible security...This almost always keeps people from wrongdoing.
This has been done. Uniformed Disney Security and OSO deputues are all over the place; plainclothes too. Yet the recent pipe bomb and robbery happened. You simply can't prevent all crime from happening, period.

BobK/Orlando

[Disney MAINEiac]

what I find really scary about this is the fact that SSR is just a short albeit dark walk from DTD. I am rethinking my comfort level with walking around SSR after dark now. last time we stayed at DTD we walked from SSR to DTD and back after dark and never encountered any security or check points to get onto the resort property. Whats next room invasions and breakins????:confused3 :scared1:

[Kaler131]

The Mayberry comment seemed a bit snarky though.:confused3

Sorry....I was just kidding with ya! :goodvibes

[Peter Pirate 2]

RE: The snarky comment, it's OK...I wasn't really trying to compare by hometown to Disney in the first place but it was kind thrown at me.

OK, we'll have to agree to disagree, I guess. As you recall I didn't feel it incumbant on me to find Disney's solutions but my opinion was dismissed because I didn't. So I offered three ...

(1) Parking fee. You say not an option I ask why? Maybe not even a profitable amount needs be charged, maybe just a nominal .50 per hour? Maybe free, just have gated, guarded entrance/exit points so actual attendants can keep tabs on things, close off traffic if need be (notification of some altercation, etc.). Disney makes millons from their endeavors, I think they can afford to offer the epitome of guest safety if they wish.

(2) Number of entrance/exits into DTD itself...The number isn't the key, it's the way it is accomplished. Make it more organized, less free form. Give people the idea that a quick getaway for any reason will not be easy.

(3) Increase uniformed presence. I hear this has happened since the number of incients has increased but still it seems rougish at PI, it seems...Perhaps a few more would be prudent?

It's obvious some of us are not going to agree but I'll finish by falling back on my constant drum beat. Disney should be better than the rest because they desitre to, because they're entire business was founded on the quality first premise, because Disney always felt you should EXCEED a guests expectations.
pirate:

[timben]

Reading your post's makes me feel somehow very uncomfortable. As it sounds that it seems to be dangerous to go downtown Orlando or DTD or even a mall after all.

That said, I have to admit that we are from Vienna, Austria, Europe, and of course all we hear from cities in the US is that they are very, veeery dangerous especially at night.

I've been to a lot of the larger European cities including London, Paris, Berlin, Sofia and even in Vienna with it's 2 mio. inhabitants I would says there are not many places I would totally avoid going past midnight. Seems we have to be very aware when making trips to the US or a just influenced by bad news.

[G8RFAN]

timben,

Yes, there are certain areas in certain cities that you should not be out at night. Most metropolitan cities all have questionable sections. Rome is probably a good example of having a few areas at night that you should stay away from. Pickpockets in the subways are rampant in parts of Europe, but once you can "profile" the typical scoundrel, you know who to watch out for. It is no different in the US. If you know where not to go, then you generally are fine.

[Another Voice]

Most metropolitan cities all have questionable sections.
So Downtown Disney is now just "one of those places to avoid" rather than fixing the security problem?

Please.

Disney moved a large chuck of its security out of DTD to staff all the bag check points at the parks. Downtown just doesn't generate the money to make effective patrolling "worth the effort". But now if people feel unsafe, they are going to avoid the area, which means even less money, which means less security, which means people feel even less secure...the whole spiral.

Disney can make Downtown as safe or as open as they want. There isn't a single shopping mall in the country that has the police powers that Disney has (thank's to Reedy Creek). WDW isn't the victim here, no matter how many people want to whine and play that part. Downtown is the seedy parts of Baltimore or the Cleveland - it's private property with it's own police force.

Downtown Disney is unsafe because Disney let it become that way. And it's in their power to fix it too.

[Peter Pirate 2]

timbin,
On this I totally agree with GR8FAN.

DTD is not dangerous by general standards but it is not as safe as it used to be (but this is probably symtomatic of American society in general), which is my lament. I remember Disney from it's orgins when everything was done without peer, precedent or regard to profit/loss. It was generally believed (and proven) that if you give the customer the absolute best, you will succeed. Disney today runs by the modern profit/loss model and trades on its reputation for unbridled quality to a large degree (IMO).

This safety issue is just another thing where I think "acceptable" just isn't good enough.
pirate:

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

Timben, Guten Tag from Orlando. My mother is originally from Salzburg so I am part-Austrian!

Generally speaking, American cities are much more dangerous than European cities. Gun control is very lax here and there is a lot of drug addition among poor, inner-city residents. But you'll not encounter any problems if you don't wander around alone at night and stay away from areas that have high crime rates. I understand that Vienna is not as safe as it used to be because of the influx of poor immigrants. And that is also true for many European cities. I will be in London and Berlin later this week; both very safe cities. But each city has areas that I should not enter.

Downtown Disney is extremely safe; some people on here feel it should be perfect. Downtown Orlando is actually very safe at night as well and is full of bars, nightclubs and restaurants that can get very crowded. But you have to stay where there other people and not go into dangerous neighborhoods and not go around alone. Malls are also very safe with plenty of security but after dark in the parking lots you should always pay attention to your surroundings.

So don't let these postings scare you. It's sunny and 74F at the moment! Gute reise!

BobK/Orlando

[mitros]

timbin,
On this I totally agree with GR8FAN.

DTD is not dangerous by general standards but it is not as safe as it used to be (but this is probably symtomatic of American society in general), which is my lament. I remember Disney from it's orgins when everything was done without peer, precedent or regard to profit/loss. It was generally believed (and proven) that if you give the customer the absolute best, you will succeed. Disney today runs by the modern profit/loss model and trades on its reputation for unbridled quality to a large degree (IMO).

This safety issue is just another thing where I think "acceptable" just isn't good enough.
pirate:

IMO also, as well as a lot of other folks I'm sure. :thumbsup2

[theantibride]

You know the malls are all privately owned and yet you don't see them charging people to get in and such. That's what Downtown Disney is: A big, overpriced mall. With Disney's name smacked in front of it. And yes that name means something to us that something like Simon doesn't, but expecting Disney to be perfect and free from problems is unrealistic. Anyone familiar with the history of Disneyland knows the problems they had with violence and such there int he 1970s. Security has been seriously beefed up over the past year and a half, as a passholder I've seen that. Honestly, seeing double or triple the amount of cops doesn't make me feel safer. But here is a very simple fact: criminals will pay money to rob you, hurt you, whatever. So even if you charge a parking fee to them it's worth it. Parents need to keep close tabs on their kids and not let them run wild with no boundaries (and I'm not saying this in reference to any posts in this thread) but kids today will try anything once to see if they can get away with it. So if it's the kids you're worried about then keep tabs on your own and if you see a group of kids behaving suspiciously report it to a cast member. That's not Disney's fault -- that's irresponsible parenting. And that cast member will have Disney Security jump down their throats like there is no tomorrow -- I've seen them do it! I know so many people who have been pickpocketed in the theme parks -- the things you pay admission for -- it's not funny. I called to report a lost item and the sheriff's office knows the address of every single theme park by hand because of the volume of crime that happens -- and it's not just pickpocketing. And it's not just Disney. It's Universal and Sea World too! So maybe Disney needs to put in some more lighting and brighter lighting. I wouldn't mind that -- anyone whose ever had to try to find something they dropped in the parking lot at DTD after dark would probably appreciate that! And maybe spread the cops around instead of having them all sit outside of the Virgin Megastore. But security gates don't stop crime and they don't give an aura of security -- they take that away -- ask any kid who has to walk through a metal detector upon entering school. Someone wants to do something wrong -- nothing will deter them. And if you're worried about being there after dark then don't go then. And yes it is Disney, so for whatever reason we put them on a pedestal and expect them to be perfect, but it's not 100% safe. It never has been and it never will be. The world is not a safe place anymore, a very very sad fact of life. But nothing will ever completely deter a criminal and that's an even sadder fact. The only thing we as human beings can do is look out for one another and stop expecting someone else to do it for us. I reported 2 teenage girls shoplifting in my Target not long ago. There was security at the door, cameras everywhere, and shoppers milling about them, but they still did it. And I reported them. It wasn't the easiest thing to do but it was the right thing to do. And they got caught and are now paying the price. The only way we can stop crime is to not turn a blind eye to it or expect someone else to do something about it. Remember the saying: You have to be the change you want to see in the world. And that includes Disney World. You want it safer then you have to help make it that way. Better to report something harmless that looks out of place to you then find out later you could have prevented something horrible. But just sitting on a message board griping about how you're uncomfortable wandering around does not help anyone out. You need specific places, times, and reasons why. Then they have the necessary info to do something but just a general uncomfortable feeling doesn't help solve the problem. So next time this happens find security or the sheriff's deputies hanging around and tell them where you were, when you were there, and what you saw that made you feel unsafe. They can look into it or maybe give you some information to help put your mind at ease. And if that's not possible then as soon as you get a chance write Disney a letter listing these exact same things. Then they are armed with the information to make a change, but right now just talking about it on a message board -- you might as well be in the middle of a forest screaming at the trees. You need to share the details and then Disney can go in and fix the problem because they probably don't see things in the same light you are and you need to open their eyes to the problem.

[Peter Pirate 2]

You know the malls are all privately owned and yet you don't see them charging people to get in and such. That's what Downtown Disney is: A big, overpriced mall. With Disney's name smacked in front of it. And yes that name means something to us that something like Simon doesn't, but expecting Disney to be perfect and free from problems is unrealistic. Anyone familiar with the history of Disneyland knows the problems they had with violence and such there int he 1970s. Security has been seriously beefed up over the past year and a half, as a passholder I've seen that. Honestly, seeing double or triple the amount of cops doesn't make me feel safer. But here is a very simple fact: criminals will pay money to rob you, hurt you, whatever. So even if you charge a parking fee to them it's worth it. Parents need to keep close tabs on their kids and not let them run wild with no boundaries (and I'm not saying this in reference to any posts in this thread) but kids today will try anything once to see if they can get away with it. So if it's the kids you're worried about then keep tabs on your own and if you see a group of kids behaving suspiciously report it to a cast member. That's not Disney's fault -- that's irresponsible parenting. And that cast member will have Disney Security jump down their throats like there is no tomorrow -- I've seen them do it! I know so many people who have been pickpocketed in the theme parks -- the things you pay admission for -- it's not funny. I called to report a lost item and the sheriff's office knows the address of every single theme park by hand because of the volume of crime that happens -- and it's not just pickpocketing. And it's not just Disney. It's Universal and Sea World too! So maybe Disney needs to put in some more lighting and brighter lighting. I wouldn't mind that -- anyone whose ever had to try to find something they dropped in the parking lot at DTD after dark would probably appreciate that! And maybe spread the cops around instead of having them all sit outside of the Virgin Megastore. But security gates don't stop crime and they don't give an aura of security -- they take that away -- ask any kid who has to walk through a metal detector upon entering school. Someone wants to do something wrong -- nothing will deter them. And if you're worried about being there after dark then don't go then. And yes it is Disney, so for whatever reason we put them on a pedestal and expect them to be perfect, but it's not 100% safe. It never has been and it never will be. The world is not a safe place anymore, a very very sad fact of life. But nothing will ever completely deter a criminal and that's an even sadder fact. The only thing we as human beings can do is look out for one another and stop expecting someone else to do it for us. I reported 2 teenage girls shoplifting in my Target not long ago. There was security at the door, cameras everywhere, and shoppers milling about them, but they still did it. And I reported them. It wasn't the easiest thing to do but it was the right thing to do. And they got caught and are now paying the price. The only way we can stop crime is to not turn a blind eye to it or expect someone else to do something about it. Remember the saying: You have to be the change you want to see in the world. And that includes Disney World. You want it safer then you have to help make it that way. Better to report something harmless that looks out of place to you then find out later you could have prevented something horrible. But just sitting on a message board griping about how you're uncomfortable wandering around does not help anyone out. You need specific places, times, and reasons why. Then they have the necessary info to do something but just a general uncomfortable feeling doesn't help solve the problem. So next time this happens find security or the sheriff's deputies hanging around and tell them where you were, when you were there, and what you saw that made you feel unsafe. They can look into it or maybe give you some information to help put your mind at ease. And if that's not possible then as soon as you get a chance write Disney a letter listing these exact same things. Then they are armed with the information to make a change, but right now just talking about it on a message board -- you might as well be in the middle of a forest screaming at the trees. You need to share the details and then Disney can go in and fix the problem because they probably don't see things in the same light you are and you need to open their eyes to the problem.

:confused3 :confused3 :confused3
You KNOW that people here haven't "done more"? I've sent my letters, I've complained to management and I'll bet others have too. This message board isn't incognito either. It gets a strong Disney presence from interested management right down to the paid schills who operate within our midst...
pirate:

[theantibride]

I'm not saying people here haven't. I'm sure you have spoken up since you are so passionate about this. What I'm saying is a lot of people have said somthing along the lines of "I just don't feel safe there." That doesn't tell the company anything. For all they know a person could simply be paranoid. And I'm not saying that anyone here is -- I'm saying that without specifics they can't do anything. I have a great aunt who does have paranoia and doesn't fell safe anywhere but she can't explain why. If you say to someone "There is a group of about 10 teeange boys outside of the magnet store and they were pushing at each other and shouting out profanity at one another" that gives them something specific to resolve. Just a general "I don't feel safe" doesn't solve the problem. That's all I'm saying.

[FSUDisneyGirl]

I must say that I am surprised that anyone feels unsafe at DTD!

I worked there for 5 months on the college program recently, and frequently walked to my car (far away! :rotfl: ) alone or in small groups at 2 am... and never felt unsafe. As for PI, there are security officers assigned to all of the clubs, as well as Orange County deputies working every night. The most uncomfortable I ever felt was around drunk middle-aged businessmen!:rotfl:

To those of you who felt that way...why was it? I am just wondering...was it lack of security, certain groups of people, etc.? I am not saying you are not justified in feeling that way...I am just wondering what created the unsafe feeling. Thanks for sharing!

[Uncleromulus]

For us it was a combination--always a large # of "youths" (teens) wandering around in groups with apparently nothing to do--loitering I believe is the term. And those drunks staggering about--many of those in groups as well.
Frankly, other than that large Disney store, there isn't much about that whole area that IS Disney--so we simply don't go!!! There's plenty for us to do in the rest of WDW.

[kirrrby]

i've never experienced any unsafe conditions in DtD, although i have encountered some rude people [but its life] I don't plan on not visiting DtD everytime we travel to Disney, because we have a simple routine, to eat at the House of Blues on the first night we get there, and its been that same way for a while. The only part of DtD that i find that there is a lack of security, would have to be from the Entrance to Pleasure Island to the end of the yellow bridges. It needs to have more control in my opinion.

[Hotdoggie1977]

You know the malls are all privately owned and yet you don't see them charging people to get in and such. That's what Downtown Disney is: A big, overpriced mall. With Disney's name smacked in front of it. And yes that name means something to us that something like Simon doesn't, but expecting Disney to be perfect and free from problems is unrealistic. Anyone familiar with the history of Disneyland knows the problems they had with violence and such there int he 1970s. Security has been seriously beefed up over the past year and a half, as a passholder I've seen that. Honestly, seeing double or triple the amount of cops doesn't make me feel safer. But here is a very simple fact: criminals will pay money to rob you, hurt you, whatever. So even if you charge a parking fee to them it's worth it. Parents need to keep close tabs on their kids and not let them run wild with no boundaries (and I'm not saying this in reference to any posts in this thread) but kids today will try anything once to see if they can get away with it. So if it's the kids you're worried about then keep tabs on your own and if you see a group of kids behaving suspiciously report it to a cast member. That's not Disney's fault -- that's irresponsible parenting. And that cast member will have Disney Security jump down their throats like there is no tomorrow -- I've seen them do it! I know so many people who have been pickpocketed in the theme parks -- the things you pay admission for -- it's not funny. I called to report a lost item and the sheriff's office knows the address of every single theme park by hand because of the volume of crime that happens -- and it's not just pickpocketing. And it's not just Disney. It's Universal and Sea World too! So maybe Disney needs to put in some more lighting and brighter lighting. I wouldn't mind that -- anyone whose ever had to try to find something they dropped in the parking lot at DTD after dark would probably appreciate that! And maybe spread the cops around instead of having them all sit outside of the Virgin Megastore. But security gates don't stop crime and they don't give an aura of security -- they take that away -- ask any kid who has to walk through a metal detector upon entering school. Someone wants to do something wrong -- nothing will deter them. And if you're worried about being there after dark then don't go then. And yes it is Disney, so for whatever reason we put them on a pedestal and expect them to be perfect, but it's not 100% safe. It never has been and it never will be. The world is not a safe place anymore, a very very sad fact of life. But nothing will ever completely deter a criminal and that's an even sadder fact. The only thing we as human beings can do is look out for one another and stop expecting someone else to do it for us. I reported 2 teenage girls shoplifting in my Target not long ago. There was security at the door, cameras everywhere, and shoppers milling about them, but they still did it. And I reported them. It wasn't the easiest thing to do but it was the right thing to do. And they got caught and are now paying the price. The only way we can stop crime is to not turn a blind eye to it or expect someone else to do something about it. Remember the saying: You have to be the change you want to see in the world. And that includes Disney World. You want it safer then you have to help make it that way. Better to report something harmless that looks out of place to you then find out later you could have prevented something horrible. But just sitting on a message board griping about how you're uncomfortable wandering around does not help anyone out. You need specific places, times, and reasons why. Then they have the necessary info to do something but just a general uncomfortable feeling doesn't help solve the problem. So next time this happens find security or the sheriff's deputies hanging around and tell them where you were, when you were there, and what you saw that made you feel unsafe. They can look into it or maybe give you some information to help put your mind at ease. And if that's not possible then as soon as you get a chance write Disney a letter listing these exact same things. Then they are armed with the information to make a change, but right now just talking about it on a message board -- you might as well be in the middle of a forest screaming at the trees. You need to share the details and then Disney can go in and fix the problem because they probably don't see things in the same light you are and you need to open their eyes to the problem.


Wall of text. Im sure that was well thought out and written, but needs paragraphs. ;)

[TSR6]

I must say that I am surprised that anyone feels unsafe at DTD!

I worked there for 5 months on the college program recently, and frequently walked to my car (far away! :rotfl: ) alone or in small groups at 2 am... and never felt unsafe. As for PI, there are security officers assigned to all of the clubs, as well as Orange County deputies working every night. The most uncomfortable I ever felt was around drunk middle-aged businessmen!:rotfl:

To those of you who felt that way...why was it? I am just wondering...was it lack of security, certain groups of people, etc.? I am not saying you are not justified in feeling that way...I am just wondering what created the unsafe feeling. Thanks for sharing!

Erin, I agree with you. Been there, done that - minus the businessmen aspect. hah. I made that same walk to the cast-lot during two programs. Never had a problem.

[Brian430]

The idea of gating this attraction is a cool idea - if it were truly a Disney attraction.

But Disney long ago opted to assume a landlord mentality and rent out the bulk of this property out to any merchant with a good credit rating. So not only have they lost control of the Disney experience (a giant record store, McDonald's, and other mall staples) but they lost control period.

Add to that the fact that they continually build new hotels without expanding the capacity of DTD and you have a property that is so congested that my family will only go during the day.

Like most tourism areas, Orlando is mostly a low-income area with fairly high crimes rates. And building a giant mall complex in the middle of it, which is accessible to virtually any derelict, is an invitation to crime. So yes, you are now starting to see activity at DTD that simply isn't taking place as frequently as other parts of Disney.

That's one reason we will never again stay at Saratoga Springs, which is strolling distance from DTD. Most of that sprawling complex is so far removed from the hub of the main resort that, as guests, we felt isolated and unsafe – especially at night. For example, we saw things going on at Saratoga's "quiet pools" that simply don't happen at the quiet pools of say a Wilderness Lodge, or a Boardwalk. The dark, unpatrolled grounds, and absence of indoor, locked hallways don't help matters much.

If you ask me, the infrastructure and the staffing (especially security) at the DTD area is simply not keeping pace with the room capacity of WDW nor the crime rates of the Orlando area.

As a small business owner I find it astounding how small minded Disney management can be about pinching pennies. The security detail they hire makes what, $10 maybe $15 an hour? DTD should have at least another 20 security personnel in the evenings. That's $200 to $300 an hour for a complex generating hundreds of thousands of dollars during the same time period.

An extra ten teams of two patrol men with flashlights and walkie talkies would be all the presence they would need to make people feel safe and the bad guys uncomfortable.

[SingingMom]

I must say that I am surprised that anyone feels unsafe at DTD!

To those of you who felt that way...why was it? I am just wondering...was it lack of security, certain groups of people, etc.? I am not saying you are not justified in feeling that way...I am just wondering what created the unsafe feeling. Thanks for sharing!

Dark and isolated is what I felt while waiting for the hotel bus. And it was a LONG wait for that bus!:guilty:

Wall of text. Im sure that was well thought out and written, but needs paragraphs. ;)

:lmao:

[G8RFAN]

So not only have they lost control of the Disney experience (a giant record store, McDonald's, and other mall staples) but they lost control period.
Interesting.... the businesses you are pointing at are the ones that are attracting the undesireable elements? :confused3 Would you have preferred every venue to be owned and operated by Disney? I think each club is a joint venture with Disney, but I'm not sure how Disney wouldn't want to shield itself from the liability of serving alcohol in a club environment so I might be wrong. It is funny that I can't seem to find any of the names of the clubs currently listed as ficticious names or corporations listed with the State of Florida. However, it does seem they have very tight control of these clubs and the theming. I'm not sure if Disney can legally own a movie theater (I don't know of any theater chain owned or operated by a film distributor) or if they can get the economies of scale to offer unique shopping concepts with just one little store instead of inviting chains and experienced vendors.

I saw lots of security last month. I realize that "fear" is very subjective and when you state that they need more security it becomes more of a function of your perception compared to a careful study of historical issues, current crowd flows and demographics (budget concerns aside). However, I'm sure Disney officials care also about perception more than substance in the industry it is in so it's good that we voice our perceptions and detail what we personally would like to see. When you have moving patrols, how often would a security detail have to cover a certain point? Once every 5 minutes? Once a minute? There comes to be a point where there is an over saturation of security and it becomes static. If you want static security, would you prefer to see one every 50', 100'? IMHO, I don't think they need anywhere near that kind of coverage, but like I said, "fear" is very subjective.

I do keep hearing that people don't like the dark lonely areas of the bus terminals. Is this on the Marketplace side or PI/Westside or both? Has there ever been issues at the bus stops compared to the known issues in the parking lots? I know nobody wants to be the first statistic, so would a permant security CM at each bus stop be enough? How about during the day? Only during peak times at night or if all night how long after the last store/venue closes at DTD?

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

The night clubs at PI are all owned by Disney; they are not joint ventures. (Not sure about Raglan Road, but I'm talking about the dance and comedy clubs.)

BobK/Orlando

[G8RFAN]

The night clubs at PI are all owned by Disney; they are not joint ventures. (Not sure about Raglan Road, but I'm talking about the dance and comedy clubs.)

BobK/Orlando
That's surprising given the nature of the venues. I assume then BET is just a licensing arangement. Thanks for the insight. In any event, I'm pretty sure that Raglan Road is not from what I remember from their website. Since I really don't venture into PI too much other than to pass thru, how is the security presence in that area? I could see a need for a much higher static presence there.

[SingingMom]

I do keep hearing that people don't like the dark lonely areas of the bus terminals. Is this on the Marketplace side or PI/Westside or both? Has there ever been issues at the bus stops compared to the known issues in the parking lots? I know nobody wants to be the first statistic, so would a permant security CM at each bus stop be enough? How about during the day? Only during peak times at night or if all night how long after the last store/venue closes at DTD?

I found it "dark & lonely" in both the Marketplace and Pleasure Island sides. I think I would have felt more comfortable with a security CM patrolling the bus stops.

[cruisedad]

I understand that Disney only pays about $9.50/hour for their Security people.

[TSR6]

The night clubs at PI are all owned by Disney; they are not joint ventures. (Not sure about Raglan Road, but I'm talking about the dance and comedy clubs.)

BobK/Orlando

Raglan Road is their own, just leasing space from Disney.

That's surprising given the nature of the venues. I assume then BET is just a licensing arangement. Thanks for the insight. In any event, I'm pretty sure that Raglan Road is not from what I remember from their website. Since I really don't venture into PI too much other than to pass thru, how is the security presence in that area? I could see a need for a much higher static presence there.

BET originally owned/ran the club. The contract ended, and Disney took over in the current form. I believe this happened in '04, but I may be mistaken.

[CanadianGuy]

right down to the paid schills who operate within our midst...

Crap. They're on to us guys. Disperse!

--
On a serious note, I've never felt unsafe at DTD.

That maybe a function of when I travel.

Or perhaps that I'm a strapping 136 lbs of pure Canadian beefcake.

No wait, that's not it. :laughing:

ahem.

I've found the bus stops on the Pleasure Island side well lit enough generally speaking and the security presence more than adequate -- esp at 2am.

I will say that I find the Marketplace bus stops darker on the whole and I agree better lighting and at least SOME security presence on that side would be a welcome addition.

Knox

[nmdisfans]

My wife and I just returned from our first Christmas-time visit to WDW (our 24th visit overall since 1997). For years we have enjoyed DTD and PI in our visits and have always felt safe with the exception of this last visit.

We were unable to get accomodations at a DVC or Disney resort this time (we planned the trip last minute and had to stay at the Best Western). This forced us to use the "other" bus stop at the end of the parking lot (something we have never done before) - we had to walk thru the parking lot to get to our bus. The parking lot and parts of downtown and PI seem to be barracaded permamently nowadays creating a maze-like walkway unless you are heading to Saratoga Springs or the "Disney" branded bus stops of PI or Marketplace.

During our walk, my wife and I both spotted, without talking to each other, two suspicious looking characters holding brown bags, wearing wool caps (it was 65 degrees out) wandering in and out of the parked cars and generally looking dangerous/threatening. There were no other families or "shoppers" to be seen and the lot itself was very dark.

Our years of living in big cities trained us to not make eye contact and walk away from them without appeaing concerned, but we were. For the first time in ten years of visiting WDW, we actually were worried about our safety. It was 9:30 at night (not 2AM like some of the posters mentioned). There were no signs of Disney patrols, cops or other security. We may have over-reacted, but I am not sure. And it definitely changed our experience this trip in a way we were not used to at Disney. Perhaps our years of trips without incident of any kind has numbed us. Perhaps we have come to expect too much from Disney vacations. Either way, the myriad comments on these pages shows that perhaps there really is a problem. I hope some of the Disney cast members actually look at these boards and do something. It would be a shame to lose DTD or PI because of these issues. I have to respectfully disagree with some of the posters who have suggested that DTD is like a mall or other big city venue. Its not, its a Disney property. As a former So Cal resident, the thing we always loved about WDW versus Disneyland is that you are not surrounded by Anaheim and its issues when you walk out the gate. The size of the WDW property perhaps gives a false sense of security, but it has always seemed like there was more "Disney Control" at DTD and now that seems to be gone. Sorry to run on, but these posts definitely struck a chord with us.

PS - we have a lot of our new vacation club points at Saratoga Springs and have made the walk that other's have expressed concern over (from DTD to the resort on the dark path) without incident and without fear - although now we are worried. -Chris

[fan of the TTA]

Crap. They're on to us guys. Disperse!

--
On a serious note, I've never felt unsafe at DTD.

That maybe a function of when I travel.

Or perhaps that I'm a strapping 136 lbs of pure Canadian beefcake.

No wait, that's not it. :laughing:

ahem.

I've found the bus stops on the Pleasure Island side well lit enough generally speaking and the security presence more than adequate -- esp at 2am.

I will say that I find the Marketplace bus stops darker on the whole and I agree better lighting and at least SOME security presence on that side would be a welcome addition.

Knox



never felt unsafe iver....why should i