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View Full Version : IS there a menorah on board


AmberDaClown
10-20-2007, 09:32 AM
We want to know if there is a menorah on board (even with simulated candles)? We will be sailing over Hanukkah.

I remember one year at DTD at DL there was this pitiful two foot display of Hanukkah related Disney items. I wonder if there will be any on board DCL.

CraftyMouse
10-20-2007, 09:35 AM
I know that they have services on the Jewish high holy days so I am sure they will have a menorah onboard over Hanukkah.

AmberDaClown
10-21-2007, 07:32 PM
Bumping. Does anyone know for sure?

CraftyMouse
10-21-2007, 07:41 PM
Bumping. Does anyone know for sure?

Why don't you give DCL a quick call and ask. I"m sure they'd be able to help.

AmberDaClown
10-21-2007, 07:56 PM
Why don't you give DCL a quick call and ask. I"m sure they'd be able to help.

I actually have and got three different answers three different times. I thought I would ask the DIS since they seem to know everything, even moreso than the telephone agents.

CraftyMouse
10-21-2007, 08:04 PM
I actually have and got three different answers three different times. I thought I would ask the DIS since they seem to know everything, even moreso than the telephone agents.

Ah yes...I've gotten misinformation from the DCL reps as well. I am quite sure they will have a menorah on board. I seem to recall someone writing a trip report saying that there was a menorah lighting ceremony each evening of Hanukkah so that is what I am going by. DCL is very conscientious about celebrating Jewish holidays for it's Jewish passengers so I am sure they will offer this for their Jewish guests sailing over Hanukkah.

coastgirl
10-21-2007, 09:31 PM
Amber, we have never witnessed any Hanukkah observances. Would it be appropriate for a non-Jewish family to be (quietly, respectfully) present for the lighting?

tvguy
10-21-2007, 10:33 PM
In the past Disney has always made facilities available for religious services. Don't think they would have a Menorah on board, but if you brought a simulated one, I'm sure they would accomadate you. Remember, candles aren't allowed, so it would have to be simulated.

AmberDaClown
10-21-2007, 10:36 PM
Of course others are welcome to participate, and I know it would have to be simulated because of the candle factor. I would just hope DCL would provide it since there is such accommodation made for Christmas. Like I said I was not that hopeful given my experience two years ago at DTD in DL.

I M Grumpy
10-23-2007, 11:00 AM
I cruised last December and YES they have a candle lighting.

There was a Rabbi and they gave him one of the conference rooms.
Short candle lighting service, Kiddush and latkes.

Only problem was timing with early dinner seating, but it worked.

CraftyMouse
10-23-2007, 11:58 AM
Of course others are welcome to participate, and I know it would have to be simulated because of the candle factor. I would just hope DCL would provide it since there is such accommodation made for Christmas. Like I said I was not that hopeful given my experience two years ago at DTD in DL.

I believe they have a menorah lighting at the American Adventure in EPCOT.

JoiseyMom
10-23-2007, 02:07 PM
I cruised last December and YES they have a candle lighting.

There was a Rabbi and they gave him one of the conference rooms.
Short candle lighting service, Kiddush and latkes.

Only problem was timing with early dinner seating, but it worked.

Kewl, I hope it's on this cruise. It would be nice to have.

beachblanket
10-23-2007, 02:09 PM
In the past Disney has always made facilities available for religious services.

Yeah, like an empty lounge or theatre :rolleyes: DCL should get with the program (the one that most of their competiors started years ago) and add specific space for religious services, ergo chapels (which can be used by any faith) to the two existing ships and incude them on plans for the new ones.

And please, none of those silly "they don't have enough room" responses. If they can fit in multple lounges and gift shops, they can most certainly find room for a small chapel.

Here are some fine examples from other lines:

On the RCI Freedom of the Seas:

http://www.cruisereviews.com/RoyalCaribbean/Freedom1Pics/Chapel.jpg

ON NCL's Pride of America (in this shot set up for a wedding):

http://www.02cruise.com/lines/norwegian%20cruise%20line/pride%20of%20america/photos/pride%20of%20america%20wedding%20chapel%201.jpg

Aboard the Carnival Spirit (yeah, good 'ole "downscale" Carnival, which is nice enough to give passengers real stained glass and polished red oak pews). They've now standardized this general design for chapels on all their ships, which in the humble opinion of this marketer reflects some very slick customer insight on their part. How? It offers wedding parties a respite into tradition -- which is what many (if not most) of them want -- and is a nice contrast to the glitzly feel of most of the other interior space on their vessels.;)

http://www.cruisemates.com/images/Carnival/SpiritChapel3.jpg

disneycruise05
10-23-2007, 03:56 PM
Didn't we have this debate about chapels like a year ago? And didn't it get all heated and locked by the mods?

As per celebrating Hanukkah on board: I wrote DCL a while ago because I thought we would be going on our cruise during Hanukkah and wanted to know if there would be anything going on. Here is what they wrote back with:

Dear William,

Thank you for your interest in a Disney Cruise Line Vacation!

Although we do not have any specific information, please be assured services for Hanukkah will include menorahs, candles, wine, and latkes. Once onboard, please check your Personal Navigator for any special times or locations.

We look forward to sailing with you! Have a Magical Day!

Wilma
Reservations Department
Disney Cruise Vacations


HTH!

ashman
10-23-2007, 04:09 PM
Of course others are welcome to participate, and I know it would have to be simulated because of the candle factor. I would just hope DCL would provide it since there is such accommodation made for Christmas. Like I said I was not that hopeful given my experience two years ago at DTD in DL.

Amber I wish you sucess as you seek out an appropriate opportunity to worship according to your tradition celebrating what I think is one of the most impressive moments of Jewish history, the Maccabee rebellion.

That said, and I mean this with the utmost respect, does DCL infact make accomodation for Christmas? I know there are holiday decorations (some places don't even call them Christmas decorations or Christmas Trees) and the hat tipped to Jolly ol Saint Nick, but is Christmas, the birth of the Christ child, born of a Virgin, the manger, the wise men, the shepherds accomodated for on DCL?

Again I ask the question not to be antagonistic but to sincerely know. I don't. I would suspect that such overt accomodations would be avoided. I don't know and I am asking for more info.

disneycruise05
10-23-2007, 05:52 PM
Amber I wish you sucess as you seek out an appropriate opportunity to worship according to your tradition celebrating what I think is one of the most impressive moments of Jewish history, the Maccabee rebellion.

That said, and I mean this with the utmost respect, does DCL infact make accomodation for Christmas? I know there are holiday decorations (some places don't even call them Christmas decorations or Christmas Trees) and the hat tipped to Jolly ol Saint Nick, but is Christmas, the birth of the Christ child, born of a Virgin, the manger, the wise men, the shepherds accomodated for on DCL?

Again I ask the question not to be antagonistic but to sincerely know. I don't. I would suspect that such overt accomodations would be avoided. I don't know and I am asking for more info.

There will be a clergy member on board to perform Christmas service. I don't know how many services will be available (not sure if it's just one, or if there is one at midnight, another on Christmas morning, etc.) I looked on the DCL website and the exact wording they used was:

Does the ship provide religious services?

During certain religious holidays, onboard clergy perform services. Check your Personal Navigator for more information, including locations and times.

I would be very, VERY surprised if DCL didn't have a service for Christmas. You can always look at trip reports from Christmas cruises to see what exactly happend and was available.

brack
10-23-2007, 07:51 PM
Amber I wish you sucess as you seek out an appropriate opportunity to worship according to your tradition celebrating what I think is one of the most impressive moments of Jewish history, the Maccabee rebellion.

That said, and I mean this with the utmost respect, does DCL infact make accomodation for Christmas? I know there are holiday decorations (some places don't even call them Christmas decorations or Christmas Trees) and the hat tipped to Jolly ol Saint Nick, but is Christmas, the birth of the Christ child, born of a Virgin, the manger, the wise men, the shepherds accomodated for on DCL?

Again I ask the question not to be antagonistic but to sincerely know. I don't. I would suspect that such overt accomodations would be avoided. I don't know and I am asking for more info.


Last year during our December cruise the decorations were probably 99.9% holiday and not religious. I say 99.9% only because I can not be completely sure that there was no religious content but I did not see any. Their clear intent was to celebrate the holiday season not the Christian observance of Christmas.

As an ordained minister I am not bothered by this because it is not Disney's place to celebrate my religious holiday. I will do that at home or in my own way onboard ship.

For an additional 2 cents ..... I do not need a chapel onboard. I can celebrate my religion on Deck 10 marveling at His handiwork. It appears to me that the other shiplines that do have them only do so to increase their profit margin for booking weddings.

kcashner
10-23-2007, 08:08 PM
It has been my experience on each of my 15 sailings on the Magic that space was made available for Jewish services and for a Christian non-denominational service. Times and locations were noted in the Navigator. On at least one cruise, there was a notice of a meeting for anyone interested in planning the service. I'm not aware of DCL providing a Rabbi or minister unless one is sailing as a passenger and volunteered his services, but I certainly can't say that one is not provided for special holidays.

I've never seen religious oriented decorations. The only event I've seen with a Christian orientation at WDW is the Candlelight Processional. However, I don't go to WDW or cruise the Magic in order to participate in a religious celebration or worship service. Neither DCL nor WDW in any way impedes my personal worship, and I've found them both to be cooperative in making space available if requested.

Back to the original question-based on my past experiences on the ship, I'd say that there will probably be a menorah, especially if your desire for one has been communicated before the sailing. Enjoy the cruise!

tvguy
10-23-2007, 10:07 PM
I'm not aware of DCL providing a Rabbi or minister unless one is sailing as a passenger and volunteered his services, but I certainly can't say that one is not provided for special holidays.

I think that they don't provide the religious leader, just the location.

Maybe the new ships with have chapels. Although in 8 cruises on 7 different ships, the Magic is the only ship I cruised on that did not have a chapel. However, in 7 cruises on ships with chapels I have never seen anyone in there.

Aisling
10-23-2007, 10:50 PM
I think that they don't provide the religious leader, just the location.

Maybe the new ships with have chapels. Although in 8 cruises on 7 different ships, the Magic is the only ship I cruised on that did not have a chapel. However, in 7 cruises on ships with chapels I have never seen anyone in there.

The only Christian religios thing I remember was the caroling of Joy To The World, and songs like that. I didn't see a menorah displayed, but there must have been one at the Jewish holiday service, since a rabbi was on board.

There was indeed a midnight Mass, and Mass every morning, since priests are obligated to celebrate Mass everyday, even if they are the only one there attending. If my memory serves, I believe there was also daily evening Jewish gatherings. I'll check my old Navigator to be sure, and get back to you.

beachblanket
10-24-2007, 08:58 AM
It appears to me that the other shiplines that do have them only do so to increase their profit margin for booking weddings.

That is certainly the core agenda, but once the the space is there it becomes available for general worship, Unlike TV guy, I have seen chapels on cruise ships used on Saturday afternoons (for Catholic Masses) and/or Sunday mornings (for multi-faith Christian services). Since I haven't sailed during major Jewish holidays, I don't know if these facilities are employed by Rabbis. Whatever, if a celebrant is going to hold a service during a cruise, why use a lounge or theater if a chapel is available?;)

Mass on the T.N. Raffaello of the Italian Line,, 1966:

http://www.michelangelo-raffaello.com/images/gallery/raffaello/arte-SB/vest_fig01a.jpg

CraftyMouse
10-24-2007, 09:35 AM
Whatever, if a celebrant is going to hold a service during a cruise, why use a lounge or theater if a chapel is available?;)


But if there isn't a chapel available and the service is held elsewhere it still counts in God's eyes, right? Personally, I think that DCL does a great job of handling the wedding/religious holiday situations without having a dedicated chapel.

I think it becomes an issue of practicality. DCL is trying to get the most use out of its spaces. While a chapel would be nice for some it is useless to others. DCL is trying to maximize every square foot of space for the enjoyment of all guests. Perhaps the new ships (being quite a bit larger than the Magic and Wonder) will provide a chapel, perhaps not.

beachblanket
10-24-2007, 03:52 PM
But if there isn't a chapel available and the service is held elsewhere it still counts in God's eyes, right?

Certainly. At the same time, having space dedicated to wosrhip/religious celebration reflects a respect for the latter. Moving that activity into off hours in a lounge or theater...leaves one (well, at least some of us) with the feeling of being an afterthought.

I think it becomes an issue of practicality. DCL is trying to get the most use out of its spaces.

Perhaps, but the issue of ROI per square foot on cruise ships was analyzed ad nausem long before DCL even existed and resulted in scores of very profitable lines...that put in chapels.

Also, DCL fans love to brag about all the "extra" space that became available when the line decided not to include a casino. A few hundred square feet of that couldn't have been used for a worship oriented room?;)

crash2000
10-28-2007, 03:39 AM
We want to know if there is a menorah on board (even with simulated candles)? We will be sailing over Hanukkah.

I remember one year at DTD at DL there was this pitiful two foot display of Hanukkah related Disney items. I wonder if there will be any on board DCL.


does this help at all "Jewish sabbath service" onboard.

mjy
10-28-2007, 02:16 PM
There was indeed a midnight Mass, and Mass every morning, since priests are obligated to celebrate Mass everyday, even if they are the only one there attending. If my memory serves, I believe there was also daily evening Jewish gatherings. I'll check my old Navigator to be sure, and get back to you.

Actually, as a priest myself, I can tell you that priests are not obligated to celebrate Mass everyday. They are held to the same obligation as any other Catholic: Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation. Now, in the "older" Church, there was a certain obligation/expectation to celebrate Mass daily, but not now.

That being said, we generally celebrate Mass daily.

And, when I cruise, I usually offer the cruise director to say Mass for any of the passengers on board. Often they accept the offer and, on ships that do not have chapels, we have Mass in a large capacity place such as a theatre. (That is where I have had Mass on the Magic -- in the movie theater.)

Candles -are- used then. The place is set up by the crew and they remain to monitor in case any need arises.

What a priest needs to be aware of, though, is the line that he is sailing on. Most lines have Mass supplies -- chalice, books, wine, hosts, et cetera. Some lines, like Disney, do not have those supplies. If we do not bring our own, we don't have Mass.

Additionally, many lines try to ensure a few different traditions for services: Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish. Some lines have a chaplain assigned to every sailing (Holland America is great for that) and some lines just have ministers on board for the "biggies" of Christmas and Easter.

I would never want to be a ship chaplain, though. They are a part of the crew and are assigned crew quarters. Hardly spacious. They are also restricted to where they can be. On lines that have casinos, they are usually not allowed in there and some do not allow them in the bars.

Going as a passenger and volunteering to celebrate Mass is entirely different, however. :)

Well, this was kind of lengthy and somewhat off topic and on topic. Hope it helps answer some questions.

CraftyMouse
10-28-2007, 03:13 PM
Actually, as a priest myself, I can tell you that priests are not obligated to celebrate Mass everyday. They are held to the same obligation as any other Catholic: Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation. Now, in the "older" Church, there was a certain obligation/expectation to celebrate Mass daily, but not now.

That being said, we generally celebrate Mass daily.

And, when I cruise, I usually offer the cruise director to say Mass for any of the passengers on board. Often they accept the offer and, on ships that do not have chapels, we have Mass in a large capacity place such as a theatre. (That is where I have had Mass on the Magic -- in the movie theater.)

Candles -are- used then. The place is set up by the crew and they remain to monitor in case any need arises.

What a priest needs to be aware of, though, is the line that he is sailing on. Most lines have Mass supplies -- chalice, books, wine, hosts, et cetera. Some lines, like Disney, do not have those supplies. If we do not bring our own, we don't have Mass.

Additionally, many lines try to ensure a few different traditions for services: Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish. Some lines have a chaplain assigned to every sailing (Holland America is great for that) and some lines just have ministers on board for the "biggies" of Christmas and Easter.

I would never want to be a ship chaplain, though. They are a part of the crew and are assigned crew quarters. Hardly spacious. They are also restricted to where they can be. On lines that have casinos, they are usually not allowed in there and some do not allow them in the bars.

Going as a passenger and volunteering to celebrate Mass is entirely different, however. :)

Well, this was kind of lengthy and somewhat off topic and on topic. Hope it helps answer some questions.


Thanks for your insight. It was very interesting to hear about sailing on DCL from your perspective.

Aisling
10-28-2007, 06:29 PM
Actually, as a priest myself, I can tell you that priests are not obligated to celebrate Mass everyday

Thank you for the correction. My best friend is a RC priest, and I thought he once said all priests had a daily obligation, like saying the Office. Maybe it's just his own preference. I'll ask him tonight.


Well, this was kind of lengthy and somewhat off topic and on topic. Hope it helps answer some questions.

It did. Thanks!:thumbsup2

Photographer
11-04-2007, 05:10 PM
Hi. I just signed up to these boards. First, I'd like to say I have enjoyed reading all the posts regarding Disney Cruises, they are very informative.

I'll be taking my first Disney Cruise (1st cruise ever) as a part of MouseFest. While I don't know if there's a menorah on the ship, I can tell you that if you are sailing on Dec. 2nd, the last I heard is they have not yet hired a Rabbi.

The story I got was that someone thought Hanukkah was only 1 day during that sailing. It's not, it's 2 nights, Dec. 4th and 5th. I'm awaiting a reply from DCL as I wrote them today asking for an update.

I'll post the response that I get for anyone else who may interested.

mmouse37
11-04-2007, 08:08 PM
I would love to see a chapel and a library on the new ships.....DCL loves tradition and the "golden age of cruising" so I was very surprised when they did not put a "classic ship's library" on their ships....

On every other ship I have been on there has been a beautiful chapel and warm, cozy library....great places to get away and have some peaceful moments.

Photographer
11-05-2007, 06:56 PM
I was informed today that there will not be a rabbi on the Dec. 2nd sailing of the Wonder.

BrettW
11-05-2007, 11:25 PM
Actually, as a priest myself, I can tell you that priests are not obligated to celebrate Mass everyday. They are held to the same obligation as any other Catholic: Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation. Now, in the "older" Church, there was a certain obligation/expectation to celebrate Mass daily, but not now.

That being said, we generally celebrate Mass daily.

And, when I cruise, I usually offer the cruise director to say Mass for any of the passengers on board. Often they accept the offer and, on ships that do not have chapels, we have Mass in a large capacity place such as a theatre. (That is where I have had Mass on the Magic -- in the movie theater.)

Candles -are- used then. The place is set up by the crew and they remain to monitor in case any need arises.

What a priest needs to be aware of, though, is the line that he is sailing on. Most lines have Mass supplies -- chalice, books, wine, hosts, et cetera. Some lines, like Disney, do not have those supplies. If we do not bring our own, we don't have Mass.

Additionally, many lines try to ensure a few different traditions for services: Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish. Some lines have a chaplain assigned to every sailing (Holland America is great for that) and some lines just have ministers on board for the "biggies" of Christmas and Easter.

I would never want to be a ship chaplain, though. They are a part of the crew and are assigned crew quarters. Hardly spacious. They are also restricted to where they can be. On lines that have casinos, they are usually not allowed in there and some do not allow them in the bars.

Going as a passenger and volunteering to celebrate Mass is entirely different, however. :)

Well, this was kind of lengthy and somewhat off topic and on topic. Hope it helps answer some questions.
Mike:

Thank you for your post. I didn't know that different lines handled religious issues completely differently. Interesting.

BrettW
11-05-2007, 11:29 PM
The story I got was that someone thought Hanukkah was only 1 day during that sailing. It's not, it's 2 nights, Dec. 4th and 5th.
Actually, Chanukkah (or Hanukah, or Hanukkah, or...) is eight nights. The first night is December 4, and the last night (the eighth candle) is December 11.

disneycruise05
11-05-2007, 11:37 PM
Actually, Chanukkah (or Hanukah, or Hanukkah, or...) is eight nights. The first night is December 4, and the last night (the eighth candle) is December 11.

I think what Photographer meant is that on the Dec. 2nd 4-night Wonder cruise, two of the four nights will be during Hanukkakh (the 4th and the 5th), not that it is only 2 nights long.

Photographer
11-06-2007, 08:45 AM
Yes, I meant that the first 2 nights of Hanukkah are December 4th and 5th. I'm well aware that my holiday is 8 nights. LOL

I just got word that there IS going to be a rabbi on the Dec. 2nd sailing of the Wonder. Seems there was a commuincation gap. I'm very happy for the good news and to the CM who personally called me.

disneycruise05
11-06-2007, 12:24 PM
I just got word that there IS going to be a rabbi on the Dec. 2nd sailing of the Wonder. Seems there was a commuincation gap. I'm very happy for the good news and to the CM who personally called me.

That's great news! I'm glad a CM called you to let you know.

La2kw
11-06-2007, 06:27 PM
That said, and I mean this with the utmost respect, does DCL infact make accomodation for Christmas? I know there are holiday decorations (some places don't even call them Christmas decorations or Christmas Trees) and the hat tipped to Jolly ol Saint Nick, but is Christmas, the birth of the Christ child, born of a Virgin, the manger, the wise men, the shepherds accomodated for on DCL?

Again I ask the question not to be antagonistic but to sincerely know. I don't. I would suspect that such overt accomodations would be avoided. I don't know and I am asking for more info.

Christmas decorations are to celebrate the holiday of Christmas, regardless of what they are called, or what the decorations consist of. They are intended to celebrate a particular holiday- in this case Christmas. We don't use Christmas trees on Independence Day, do we? Implying that they aren't really Christmas decorations because there's no manger in sight makes no sense to me. :confused3

JoiseyMom
11-06-2007, 06:33 PM
Yes, I meant that the first 2 nights of Hanukkah are December 4th and 5th. I'm well aware that my holiday is 8 nights. LOL

I just got word that there IS going to be a rabbi on the Dec. 2nd sailing of the Wonder. Seems there was a commuincation gap. I'm very happy for the good news and to the CM who personally called me.


But is there going to be on on the Magic Dec 8 sailing for the last 4 nites?