Crazies on the Community Board

[smartestnumber5]

Has anyone seen the thread about letting convicted criminals but not gays enlist? The thread has brought out the crazies :faint:

One person thinks seeing rainbows makes children gay! :lmao: If only--then we could carry out our evil plan to gain world domination by making everyone gay with total ease.

That's just amusing in it's craziness, but there's also a person suggesting that to stop gays from whining about not be allowed in the military we be let in, and then sent on the most dangerous missions on the front lines so that we all die.

Where do these nutcases come from?

[JennyMominRI]

Has anyone seen the thread about letting convicted criminals but not gays enlist? The thread has brought out the crazies :faint:

One person thinks seeing rainbows makes children gay! :lmao: If only--then we could carry out our evil plan to gain world domination by making everyone gay with total ease.

That's just amusing in it's craziness, but there's also a person suggesting that to stop gays from whining about not be allowed in the military we be let in, and then sent on the most dangerous missions on the front lines so that we all die.

Where do these nutcases come from?

I'm sorry..I'm truly sorry.. That post about putting gay people on the front lines so they come home in body bags is just vile.. It's a new low. Sometimes I really lose faith in humanity

[smartestnumber5]

I'm sorry..I'm truly sorry.. That post about putting gay people on the front lines so they come home in body bags is just vile.. It's a new low. Sometimes I really lose faith in humanity

Thanks Jenny.

I'm really convinced I'm somehow misunderstanding what that poster is saying. (But then, if that were the case, wouldn't s/he have cleared things up by now?) I just can't believe somebody would openly say things like that. :confused3

[singingpixie]

I'm thinking that the poster is trying to say that she believes the federal government would stoop so low as to assign GLBTQ folks to more dangerous missions. If so, I'm horrified to think of the people she relates to on every day that she thinks wouldn't care- even the most hardcore conservative people I know would have a problem with such a blatantly discriminatory gesture (granted I don't hang around with the Fred Phelps of society very often). If there are places where homophobia is that rampant, that makes me ill.

[JennyMominRI]

Thanks Jenny.

I'm really convinced I'm somehow misunderstanding what that poster is saying. (But then, if that were the case, wouldn't s/he have cleared things up by now?) I just can't believe somebody would openly say things like that. :confused3

No misunderstanding... I think the sentance about how gay people would come out and beg for *discrimination* once they started coming home in bodybags...Clearly she thinks gay people must be weaker and more cowardly than straight people

[singingpixie]

Oh and the rainbow thing? :confused:

I wonder how many rainbows someone must see before spontaneously becoming gay? Or maybe it's a sliding scale.... if someone only sees a moderate amount of rainbow, that person ends up bi?

That's truly one of the most bizarre things I've read in my years of reading threads like this on the CB.

[ConcKahuna]

No misunderstanding... I think the sentance about how gay people would come out and beg for *discrimination* once they started coming home in bodybags...Clearly she thinks gay people must be weaker and more cowardly than straight people

Is it everyone's favorite girl from Conneticut?

Anyone have a link to this thread?

Never mind, everyone's probably still asleep I'll go find it...

[VMK_MagicalLadee]

I'm from the Teen Board, and I am also doing a project where in our Candian government, we discuss issues, and I chose homophobia. I have a rainbow in my logo for my political party..

I guess thats going to make people in my class gay?

Honestly, people are disgustingly ignorant these days. I was told not to be rude in my speech, but I'm going to make my presentation VERY interesting, and this is something I can include.

[OrlandoMike]

The CB is what it is, and yes it has it's fair share of people who dont agree with our cause. All you can do is post your opinion in a nice friendly mannor.

Now if we could only get more spinning rainbows over there...oh wait, then our board will get more crowded....never mind!:hippie:

[meandtheguys2]

Yikes. Was going to post a statement about God making rainbows, but just didnt' want to deal with another crazie.

[NYBlue1]

Oh boy this is what I miss going to bed early, how dare I let having to get up for work in the way of my DISing!!! Must go see what happy friends there are to play with on the good old community board today!!! Im sure they will be open and refresing as always!!:lmao:

HI JENNY!!! Good to see you here as always! What do you think about the comments manny made yesterday, personally I think they were taken a bit out of context! You have to be bitting your nails today!

[DVC~OKW~96]

Queer folk are already fighting and dying for their country (in the armed forces) so what makes anyone think they aren't already coming home in "body bags?"

Jaysus. Deliver me from Evil...

[minicoopercraig]

Hmm, my thoughts?

(1) The stereotype that we're the weaker of the species is SO UNTRUE! LOL. Who else can have, well, relations the way gay men do and still want to bake a cake afterwards?! Putting us on the front line would cause two issues: (1) We'd reorganize the enemies fox holes to get the best lighting before killing them all for wearing last years Army Fashions. And (2) the war would probably never even start, we don't fight for oil, we use hair gel ;)
(2) By not letting gays into the military, and by enforcing "Don't Ask. Don't Tell." They've eliminated over at least 10,000 men/women from doing their duty for the country. And since they now need that many people to enforce their current war policies, they've lowered their standards to accepting felons and illeagal immigrants with the promise of allowing citizenship.
Hmm, that says something about our country. We'd rather let someone into our country who we don't know where their loyalties lie then let a bunch of "poofs" into the military to "distract" and "undermine" the others in our company from actually fighting, they'd be too busy thinking about sex.

Sorry! I'm ranting! *takes 3 Pirin tablets with a chaser of Maker's Mark* Ahh, all done. Discuss! ;)

[DisneyMomOK]

I am old (50-something), so maybe at one time I knew , but senility set in...but, what could be the reason behind not letting any US citizen wanting to serve...uh, serve? It couldn't be: sexual harassment; it couldn't be: someone would tattle on you and "embarass" you (because there would no longer be a "don't ask, don't tell" policy). So, why, would there be any problem? I just don't understand.

[minicoopercraig]

I don't think that the actual enlisted men and women have any problem with serving next to a gay/lesbian soldier, I think it's the higher ups, who don't have the tolerance and the understanding to accept, that the times are changing, and the gays should be allowed to do their civil duty and serve. In the long run, many other countries have already allowed gays and lesbians into their military operations and have had no problems whatsoever with it. I think, IMO, that they are looking farther down the line and thinking that when any servicemen retires, they get the benifits of the Army, Marines, Navy what have you, and SO DO THEIR SPOUSES. They don't want that! It's another strike against Gay Marriage, and Equal Rights. Does that make sense to anyone else but me?!
I guess I still don't understand, and no offense to anyone by this, but, I don't understand how we as US citizens, born and raised here, can be told what rights we can and can't have, I'm reckoning back to the 60's here with the Civil Liberties case, and wishing we could get into the 21st century with our military, and stop looking to untrue stereotypes to keep us out of the "masculine" egocentric machine.

[Got Quattro?]

Oh and the rainbow thing? :confused:

I wonder how many rainbows someone must see before spontaneously becoming gay? Or maybe it's a sliding scale.... if someone only sees a moderate amount of rainbow, that person ends up bi?

That's truly one of the most bizarre things I've read in my years of reading threads like this on the CB.


I am the one who wrote that and feal compelled to answer.

First, I am not homophobic. But believe, likemost people, that in nature, man and woman are mates. I belleive in god, but also undertsand that nature takes it's course. We as a species could not propigate if same gender sex was "normal".

That being said.....I have no problem with people wanting to go be with someone of their own gender.

But, as a father, trying to raise a 6 year old daughter, it is difficult to explain when she knows mommy and daddy as partners he entire life, then see's to men kissing in public. Then sees shows on TV with men being gay (will and grace). (yes, we controll her TV, but stuff happens).

My point was, children are bombarded with gay and lesbianism on TV, in the movies, in print. And yes, the rainbow which has been adopted by the community.

Now if you say that gay and lesbians were born with that orientation, I can understand that. But again, most of the worlds population is not orientated that way and having to defend our children from that type of content is hard. If they see enough of it, then there may be a "choice" to go that way. So that is why i dont by the a "we were bron this way".

It is a choice for most, and it's not how nature / god intended the hman species.

I am entitled to my view points just like you are. It's not hate to have believes that dont match yours.

Eventually, a common ground will be found. Untill then we all just have to ride the waves.

Thanks

[RickinNYC]

I am the one who wrote that and feal compelled to answer.

First, I am not homophobic. But believe, likemost people, that in nature, man and woman are mates. I belleive in god, but also undertsand that nature takes it's course. We as a species could not propigate if same gender sex was "normal".

That being said.....I have no problem with people wanting to go be with someone of their own gender.

But, as a father, trying to raise a 6 year old daughter, it is difficult to explain when she knows mommy and daddy as partners he entire life, then see's to men kissing in public. Then sees shows on TV with men being gay (will and grace). (yes, we controll her TV, but stuff happens).

My point was, children are bombarded with gay and lesbianism on TV, in the movies, in print. And yes, the rainbow which has been adopted by the community.

Now if you say that gay and lesbians were born with that orientation, I can understand that. But again, most of the worlds population is not orientated that way and having to defend our children from that type of content is hard. If they see enough of it, then there may be a "choice" to go that way. So that is why i dont by the a "we were bron this way".

It is a choice for most, and it's not how nature / god intended the hman species.

I am entitled to my view points just like you are. It's not hate to have believes that dont match yours.

Eventually, a common ground will be found. Untill then we all just have to ride the waves.

Thanks

Thinly veiled homophobia.

[MrVisible]

If no-one minds, I'm going to attempt to answer this one calmly and respectfully.
I am the one who wrote that and feal compelled to answer.

First, I am not homophobic. But believe, likemost people, that in nature, man and woman are mates. I belleive in god, but also undertsand that nature takes it's course. We as a species could not propigate if same gender sex was "normal".
Define 'nature.' You are aware, of course, that most animal populations have just as many homosexual individuals as human populations tend to. In what way is homosexuality 'unnatural?'

As to not being able to propagate if we were all gay, we wouldn't be able to propagate if we were all female. Or all male. Or all pre-pubescent, or very old. That doesn't mean that females, males, children or the elderly are unnatural, or that they don't have a role to play in the human experience.

That being said.....I have no problem with people wanting to go be with someone of their own gender. .
Your next few statements show that you do have a problem with people wanting to be with others of the same gender, though.

But, as a father, trying to raise a 6 year old daughter, it is difficult to explain when she knows mommy and daddy as partners he entire life, then see's to men kissing in public. Then sees shows on TV with men being gay (will and grace). (yes, we controll her TV, but stuff happens).
Why is seeing men kiss in public worse than seeing a man and a woman kiss in public? What about seeing two women kiss in public? If your daughter inadvertently sees a straight sex scene, you'd explain it in a manner which was appropriate to her age, something like "Two people who love each other very much sometimes do things like that." What's wrong with using the same explanation for seeing two men kissing? Believe me, the bigger deal you make of it, the more she's going to be curious.

My point was, children are bombarded with gay and lesbianism on TV, in the movies, in print. And yes, the rainbow which has been adopted by the community.
Oh, man, I wish. Do you have any idea how few positive gay role models there are out there? Straight kids have all sorts of people in the media they can use as role models; gay kids have zilch. Gay people exist. We live our lives, we do our laundry, we pay our taxes, we are a part of this culture. Why is the portrayal of a gay person a bad thing to have in the media?

Now if you say that gay and lesbians were born with that orientation, I can understand that. But again, most of the worlds population is not orientated that way and having to defend our children from that type of content is hard. If they see enough of it, then there may be a "choice" to go that way. So that is why i dont by the a "we were bron this way".
If you assume that we weren't born that way, then you're assuming we're liars. I can tell you, flat out, that I never chose to be gay. I've made myself a great life as a gay person, but the orientation was something that I had no say in. Why would an eleven-year-old kid who had no idea what being gay even meant choose to be gay? Just to piss off bigots?

If you take my word for it, and realize that gay people are telling you the truth when we say it's not a choice, then you have to realize that there are gay kids out there. No matter how they're brought up, no matter what they're exposed to, they grow up gay. There are gay kids in Iran, where the penalties against being gay are incredibly harsh and they're never ever exposed to any positive portrayals of homosexuality whatsoever. How did they get to be gay?

It is a choice for most, and it's not how nature / god intended the hman species.

I am entitled to my view points just like you are. It's not hate to have believes that dont match yours.
You're entitled to your beliefs. Others are entitled to point out that your beliefs don't make much sense, and to urge you to reconsider them in the light of additional facts.

Eventually, a common ground will be found. Untill then we all just have to ride the waves.

Thanks
I really hope you're right on this one.

[Princess_Michelle]

I am old (50-something), so maybe at one time I knew , but senility set in...but, what could be the reason behind not letting any US citizen wanting to serve...uh, serve? It couldn't be: sexual harassment; it couldn't be: someone would tattle on you and "embarass" you (because there would no longer be a "don't ask, don't tell" policy). So, why, would there be any problem? I just don't understand.

There are a few, albeit trivial, reasons why allowing gays into the military could be a problem. I was in Basic Training seven years ago. The first week or two, soldiers are put in "retention" while they get their uniforms, take their first PT tests, learn the ins and outs of military life, etc. We slept in huge bays with 50 or so girls, guys with guys, etc. While I personally didn't give a crap who I slept in the same room with, I do know of many girls that went through Basic with me, who would feel uncomfortable sleeping in the same room with a lesbian, just like they would feel if guys were allowed to sleep in the room.
The only part I would have an issue with, would be the shower situation. The older facilities have giant shower "rooms". A big room, tiled, no stalls...just about 10 spouts and a few drains. I would not feel comfortable showering with anyone who was attracted to the female sex, man or woman. :confused3 I would constantly feel self conscious about my body. As would most girls. I imagine so would most guys. Once you make it to your company, you are put with a smaller amount of girls, like 30. The bathrooms are newer, at least they have stalls, not that they have doors.....Basically, at night, we would have to toe the line, Drill Sgt. would go over stuff for the day, and next day, etc. We had SEVEN (we got more time as we got farther along in the course) minutes to get showered, ready for bed, and back on the line. She would say go, we would all run for the bathroom, strip, get in line buck naked, and file into the showers, sometimes, 2 or 3 to a stall. We're talking rubbing bodies here people. :scared1: I imagine that's why so many close friendships are made in the military :) But, that's the only thing I ever thought of when the whole "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" thing was talked about. :confused3 It would mean that they would have to have, a male bay, a female bay, a gay bay, a lesbian bay, etc. in order to make everything comfortable for everyone....that's a lot with an already stretched budget. Not to mention the extra time involved policing 4 bays, as opposed to two. They spent a lot of time keeping the sexes seperated. You only have 9 weeks to take some 18 yr. old kid, fresh out of high school, and turn them into a soldier, they don't have time for that crap. I only knew of 2, (one guy, one girl) fellow soldiers who let it out on the "down low" that they were gay. I was friends with the guy, didn't have to shower with him, so no problems. And if I did, it wouldn't bother me, cause he's gay. :confused3 Luckily I didn't have to shower with the girl, but it would have made me uncomfortable....

It's just a lot of red tape to go through for such a small percantage, I guess it's easier to just turn them away. I think the "alternative" of Don't Ask, Don't Tell is good short fix. After all, I don't really assume that girls I'm showering with are checkin' me out, so, as long as they don't tell me they swing that way.....ignorance is bliss, ya' know? I have to say though...I wouldn't feel comfortable in Basic with a convicted rapist either, or some girl that had a bad habit of beating people to a pulp. :confused3

[minicoopercraig]

Hmm, my only question is, why in my high school were the boys all forced to shower together without any curtains under seperate shower stalls? In your opinion then, they should make EVERY school that was built before 1990 go back, and tear out their locker rooms and put in newer shower stalls so everyone can be comfortable and the same thing goes for the military? I don't get it. Personally, the only time that I would ever consider paying attention to someone in the shower would be if it were just one on one. I'M PERSONALLY VERY SHY AND HATE TO THINK PEOPLE KNOW THAT I'M GAY IN PUBLIC! That's the way society has raised me, I'm forced into the corners, to shy away from holding my boyfriend of 6 years hands in public. I can't even give him a peck on a cheek at our friends house!
I don't care if other people feel uncomfortable with gay/lesbians in the showers, if we enlist WILLINGLY to serve our country during a time of war, we should be allowed to be ourselves and help others fight for us. I just don't see why people can't accept us for who we are and what we are. Other countries already have, and these countries are considered by our standards lower than our own, but, they are fine with having gays and lesbians in their military services WITHOUT making special arrangments in any way.

I'm just confused I guess.

[ConcKahuna]

Got Quattro, I have to say your post makes you seem like the type of person who is very homophobic, but won't admit it because it's not popular to do so.

There is currently a lot of reserch on what may cause homosexuality. Recent research shows that it is very likely that most cases of homosexuality are caused by genetics (http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/news/20050128/is-there-gay-gene is a good, unbiased report). To me, this also explains the seeming "explosion" of the number of gay people in the US in past decades.

In the past, the US seemed to be more "anit-gay" than many other countries (and this is actually still true today IMHO). I have known several gay people who have had children while they were in the closet, and I knew a few kids in high school with gay parents. As more people come out later in life, I think you will find that in many cases they have gay children or grandchildren. I definitly see it as a recessive genetic trait, but that is why I think we are seeing what seems to be more and more gay people in recent generations.

[DVC~OKW~96]

I would add, that a genetic connection to being gay, or lesbian supports the genetic connection to being a heterosexual. Therefore, why is one viewed as abnormal and the other the favored norm?

Why is it not seen as a perfect balance of nature and genetic evolution to have categories of sexual orientation that support reproduction, and those that don't necessarily exist for that sole purpose?

Gays and lesbians have children. Heterosexuals don't. No real revelation there, eh?

Just because segments of society do not understand genetics, or the ability of a species to evolve doesn't mean that those of us who do understand are abnormal. :)

Just think, perhaps our children, (OK, maybe not until our grandchildren) will see being Gay or Lesbian as a genetic evolution to a higher form of existence. :teeth:

Got Equality? :teeth:

[NYBlue1]

I am the one who wrote that and feal compelled to answer.

First, I am not homophobic. But believe, likemost people, that in nature, man and woman are mates. I belleive in god, but also undertsand that nature takes it's course. We as a species could not propigate if same gender sex was "normal".

That being said.....I have no problem with people wanting to go be with someone of their own gender.

But, as a father, trying to raise a 6 year old daughter, it is difficult to explain when she knows mommy and daddy as partners he entire life, then see's to men kissing in public. Then sees shows on TV with men being gay (will and grace). (yes, we controll her TV, but stuff happens).

My point was, children are bombarded with gay and lesbianism on TV, in the movies, in print. And yes, the rainbow which has been adopted by the community.

Now if you say that gay and lesbians were born with that orientation, I can understand that. But again, most of the worlds population is not orientated that way and having to defend our children from that type of content is hard. If they see enough of it, then there may be a "choice" to go that way. So that is why i dont by the a "we were bron this way".

It is a choice for most, and it's not how nature / god intended the hman species.

I am entitled to my view points just like you are. It's not hate to have believes that dont match yours.

Eventually, a common ground will be found. Untill then we all just have to ride the waves.

Thanks

Its not hate to have diffrent opinions than others by any stretch of the imagination.

Its kidding yourself to think your opinions are not hurtful to people that are just like you except for the people they love.

Nobody on the face of this earth would choose to be treated the way homosexuals are day in and day out, like animals , acutally less than animals by people that have "opinions" like you do.

Dont kid yourself , your acting like a homophobe no matter how much you want to pretend you are just having a diffrent "opinion". We all get how you feel, we have heard it a million times before throught all our lives, you are not telling us anything we dont know, you are not doing anything but making our days a little less pleasant with your opinions.

If you truly mean well, and are trying to give us insite into you "non homophobic homophbia" mission acomplished. No need to go on and on, we really do "get" where your comming from.

Thanks for stopping by and explaining yourself

[lillielil]

There are a few, albeit trivial, reasons why allowing gays into the military could be a problem. I was in Basic Training seven years ago. The first week or two, soldiers are put in "retention" while they get their uniforms, take their first PT tests, learn the ins and outs of military life, etc. We slept in huge bays with 50 or so girls, guys with guys, etc. While I personally didn't give a crap who I slept in the same room with, I do know of many girls that went through Basic with me, who would feel uncomfortable sleeping in the same room with a lesbian, just like they would feel if guys were allowed to sleep in the room.
The only part I would have an issue with, would be the shower situation. The older facilities have giant shower "rooms". A big room, tiled, no stalls...just about 10 spouts and a few drains. I would not feel comfortable showering with anyone who was attracted to the female sex, man or woman. :confused3 I would constantly feel self conscious about my body. As would most girls. I imagine so would most guys. Once you make it to your company, you are put with a smaller amount of girls, like 30. The bathrooms are newer, at least they have stalls, not that they have doors.....Basically, at night, we would have to toe the line, Drill Sgt. would go over stuff for the day, and next day, etc. We had SEVEN (we got more time as we got farther along in the course) minutes to get showered, ready for bed, and back on the line. She would say go, we would all run for the bathroom, strip, get in line buck naked, and file into the showers, sometimes, 2 or 3 to a stall. We're talking rubbing bodies here people. :scared1: I imagine that's why so many close friendships are made in the military :) But, that's the only thing I ever thought of when the whole "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" thing was talked about. :confused3 It would mean that they would have to have, a male bay, a female bay, a gay bay, a lesbian bay, etc. in order to make everything comfortable for everyone....that's a lot with an already stretched budget. Not to mention the extra time involved policing 4 bays, as opposed to two. They spent a lot of time keeping the sexes seperated. You only have 9 weeks to take some 18 yr. old kid, fresh out of high school, and turn them into a soldier, they don't have time for that crap. I only knew of 2, (one guy, one girl) fellow soldiers who let it out on the "down low" that they were gay. I was friends with the guy, didn't have to shower with him, so no problems. And if I did, it wouldn't bother me, cause he's gay. :confused3 Luckily I didn't have to shower with the girl, but it would have made me uncomfortable....

It's just a lot of red tape to go through for such a small percantage, I guess it's easier to just turn them away. I think the "alternative" of Don't Ask, Don't Tell is good short fix. After all, I don't really assume that girls I'm showering with are checkin' me out, so, as long as they don't tell me they swing that way.....ignorance is bliss, ya' know? I have to say though...I wouldn't feel comfortable in Basic with a convicted rapist either, or some girl that had a bad habit of beating people to a pulp. :confused3


Seven minutes?!? I'm sorry, but if I had seven minutes to shower and dress, I wouldn't be able to find the time to shave, let alone check out my buddies. And besides, that's kind of one of those situations where it's a bit incestuous to get involved... icky.

Just because someone's a lesbian it doesn't mean she's got the hots for you. I promise.

[mickeyfan1]

As a CSP (I hope) one thing I do know from personal experience is that people who "choose" to be gay, wheter male or female usually find that at best they are bi sexual and and worst straight.

Who are you Quatro that you KNOW "It is a choice for most, and it's not how nature / god intended the hman species." Unless you are privy to information which has never been proved (there is a god) you are only stating your own belief.

NYBlue, I agree, who would choose to be treating as badly as gays have been in the past? And in many places in this country, to say nothing of the rest of world, that treatment continues.

I firmly believe that science will eventually prove that there is a genitic action that makes all people what they are, straight, gay, bi, orange with pink dots, etc.

Thanks for letting me say my piece.

[mickeyfan1]

Just because someone's a lesbian it doesn't mean she's got the hots for you. I promise.

Damn it!

[lillielil]

Damn it!

Hey, I'm married. Even if I did have the hots for you I couldn't say so 'cause my wife reads the boards :rolleyes1

[Princess_Michelle]

Seven minutes?!? I'm sorry, but if I had seven minutes to shower and dress, I wouldn't be able to find the time to shave, let alone check out my buddies. And besides, that's kind of one of those situations where it's a bit incestuous to get involved... icky.

Just because someone's a lesbian it doesn't mean she's got the hots for you. I promise.

Yeah, we usually couldn't shave at all :) The few times I (or others) did, it was on Sunday, when we could get ready on our own, or we would wait until like 1 am, when we were pretty sure a Drill Sgt. wouldn't be stopping by, and sneak into the showers to shave. We did have to get dressed after, but into PT's, so not that hard, although, our hair still had to be pulled up off the neck, and that was hard for someone like me, cause I had long hair. :hippie: Also, it wasn't 7 minutes the whole 9 weeks...after a few weeks it went to 10, and I think we actually made it to 15. :rolleyes:

For the record, I'm sure that even if there were guys in there with us, they wouldn't have time to "check us out", but it would still be very awkward and uncomfortable. Would you really feel comfortable sharing a shower stall with a man? Not being snarky. I just try to understand both sides in any situation. I know sometimes, it's absolutely impossible to understand another person's point of view, but I try. I don't think all men have the hots for me just b/c they are a man and I'm a woman, but I would still not want to shower with them. I really don't think there is an easy answer to these situations. No matter what you do, it's going to be unfair for someone....

[Tine731]

It would mean that they would have to have, a male bay, a female bay, a gay bay, a lesbian bay, etc. in order to make everything comfortable for everyone....that's a lot with an already stretched budget. Not to mention the extra time involved policing 4 bays, as opposed to two.



Would we need only 4 bays? I would be more comfortable if they had a southern bay, yankee bay, hispanic bay, Asian bay.........

[mickeyfan1]

Hey, I'm married. Even if I did have the hots for you I couldn't say so 'cause my wife reads the boards :rolleyes1

Thanks for making me spit my drink!

One thing for sure, not all gays and straigts and Bis and Trans, etc ore easy to pick out. So on any given day, if you ride public transport, you may be sitting next to the "kind you don't hate, ..............but". You never know if that librarian is a dominatrix in her off hours, or that the college roommates that live next door are gay. I remember one reading a discussion board about members in a certain type of adult club. Someone suggested that each person entering the premise would be issued a coloured wrist band, coded to what they were looking for that evening. And colour coded as to married or single. And then straight or bi, and a different colour for what you were willing to do or have done to you.

Maybe that is the answer, we will all wear a wrist band for life, and get a decoder sheet so if I see someone with a brown bracelet, I can avert my eyes, change my seat, leave the line, or whatever, because I don't want to associate with "that type" of person. Of course people might leave because of my bracelet, too.

Just doesn't make much sense, does it?

[lillielil]

Yeah, we usually couldn't shave at all :) The few times I (or others) did, it was on Sunday, when we could get ready on our own, or we would wait until like 1 am, when we were pretty sure a Drill Sgt. wouldn't be stopping by, and sneak into the showers to shave. We did have to get dressed after, but into PT's, so not that hard, although, our hair still had to be pulled up off the neck, and that was hard for someone like me, cause I had long hair. :hippie: Also, it wasn't 7 minutes the whole 9 weeks...after a few weeks it went to 10, and I think we actually made it to 15. :rolleyes:

For the record, I'm sure that even if there were guys in there with us, they wouldn't have time to "check us out", but it would still be very awkward and uncomfortable. Would you really feel comfortable sharing a shower stall with a man? Not being snarky. I just try to understand both sides in any situation. I know sometimes, it's absolutely impossible to understand another person's point of view, but I try. I don't think all men have the hots for me just b/c they are a man and I'm a woman, but I would still not want to shower with them. I really don't think there is an easy answer to these situations. No matter what you do, it's going to be unfair for someone....

I've shared showers with both men and with lesbians - no problem with either. You've gotta do what you've gotta do, right? When I was in Australia for field camp we'd be out all day with no privacy for peeing (but holding it all day isn't exactly an option... well, unless you choose the total dehydration route), and would get back to camp in the evening and all shower together, and hope to make it out before the hot water ran out. A body's just a body. Everyone's got one, and it really isn't that big a deal. It certainly isn't a valid basis for blatant discrimination.

[Princess_Michelle]

Would we need only 4 bays? I would be more comfortable if they had a southern bay, yankee bay, hispanic bay, Asian bay.........

To me, this is something people say when they are trying to start something. :stir:

It is perfectly logical that someone would not want to shower or share close sleeping quarters with the opposite sex. To me, if a girl like girls, or a guy likes guys, they should be considered the opposite sex. :confused3 I'm not saying there is anything wrong with, or bad about men. But the FACT is, they are the opposite sex, and I would not want to shower or sleep with strange random men. Straight men = attracted to women and Lesbians = attracted to women, to me that is equality. Uncomfortable = showering or sleeping with anyone attracted to my sex, in this case women. That is the true meaning of equality, not, well, men aren't allowed into female bays but lesbians are b/c they are a minority and can therefore have whatever they want, regardless of how it makes the majority of people feel. To equate that to differences in race or geographical location is stupid.

I don't have an answer for how to make everything OK for everyone, I was just throwing something out there to someone who asked a question. I am not a racist, or biggot, and I can't stand it when people try to use any difference of opinion, or acknowledgement of a known factor, however unfair, to discredit that person. I'm sorry that people treat you badly, but it is not my fault, but making me look like a biggot and/or throwing all logic/facts out the window just to get what you want, only makes things worse, not better.

[Pakey]

There are a few, albeit trivial, reasons why allowing gays into the military could be a problem. I was in Basic Training seven years ago. The first week or two, soldiers are put in "retention" while they get their uniforms, take their first PT tests, learn the ins and outs of military life, etc. We slept in huge bays with 50 or so girls, guys with guys, etc. While I personally didn't give a crap who I slept in the same room with, I do know of many girls that went through Basic with me, who would feel uncomfortable sleeping in the same room with a lesbian, just like they would feel if guys were allowed to sleep in the room.
The only part I would have an issue with, would be the shower situation. The older facilities have giant shower "rooms". A big room, tiled, no stalls...just about 10 spouts and a few drains. I would not feel comfortable showering with anyone who was attracted to the female sex, man or woman. :confused3 I would constantly feel self conscious about my body. As would most girls. I imagine so would most guys. Once you make it to your company, you are put with a smaller amount of girls, like 30. The bathrooms are newer, at least they have stalls, not that they have doors.....Basically, at night, we would have to toe the line, Drill Sgt. would go over stuff for the day, and next day, etc. We had SEVEN (we got more time as we got farther along in the course) minutes to get showered, ready for bed, and back on the line. She would say go, we would all run for the bathroom, strip, get in line buck naked, and file into the showers, sometimes, 2 or 3 to a stall. We're talking rubbing bodies here people. :scared1: I imagine that's why so many close friendships are made in the military :) But, that's the only thing I ever thought of when the whole "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" thing was talked about. :confused3 It would mean that they would have to have, a male bay, a female bay, a gay bay, a lesbian bay, etc. in order to make everything comfortable for everyone....that's a lot with an already stretched budget. Not to mention the extra time involved policing 4 bays, as opposed to two. They spent a lot of time keeping the sexes seperated. You only have 9 weeks to take some 18 yr. old kid, fresh out of high school, and turn them into a soldier, they don't have time for that crap. I only knew of 2, (one guy, one girl) fellow soldiers who let it out on the "down low" that they were gay. I was friends with the guy, didn't have to shower with him, so no problems. And if I did, it wouldn't bother me, cause he's gay. :confused3 Luckily I didn't have to shower with the girl, but it would have made me uncomfortable....

It's just a lot of red tape to go through for such a small percantage, I guess it's easier to just turn them away. I think the "alternative" of Don't Ask, Don't Tell is good short fix. After all, I don't really assume that girls I'm showering with are checkin' me out, so, as long as they don't tell me they swing that way.....ignorance is bliss, ya' know? I have to say though...I wouldn't feel comfortable in Basic with a convicted rapist either, or some girl that had a bad habit of beating people to a pulp. :confused3


I was in the military too and could have cared less who was showering next to me during basic training. 50 nude people in a shower together had enough angst without giving thought to what anyone else looked like or if anyone was giving thought to what I looked like.

The reason gays are not legally allowed into the military is because the federal government is not willing to acknowledge the gay community for political and economic reasons.

[Princess_Michelle]

I've shared showers with both men and with lesbians - no problem with either. You've gotta do what you've gotta do, right? When I was in Australia for field camp we'd be out all day with no privacy for peeing (but holding it all day isn't exactly an option... well, unless you choose the total dehydration route), and would get back to camp in the evening and all shower together, and hope to make it out before the hot water ran out. A body's just a body. Everyone's got one, and it really isn't that big a deal. It certainly isn't a valid basis for blatant discrimination.

I really do understand where you are coming from. Some people (gay or straight) have different ways of thinking about sexuality and the human body. But, a vast majority of people, from all religious and ethnic backgrounds, do not believe in/feel comfortable with being naked in front of the opposite sex. Heck, my MIL doesn't think anyone should be naked in front of anyone that is not a spouse or doctor. :confused3 I used to have no problems being naked in front of gay men, (and yes, it has happened) but now that I am married, I would never feel comfortable being naked in front of another man, no matter what is sexual orientation, out of respect for DH. The problem is that I have always been a majority rules type of person. Always, ever since I was a kid. I don't think it's fair to put 45 straight girls in an uncomfortable, awkward situation b/c of 2 lesbian girls. Examples: I don't think it's fair for a male academy/school to have to change their policies b/c one female student wants to attend. I don't think it's fair for a Stay at Home Mom's Group to have to include one Dad. As a Christian, I wouldn't join a Hindu or Buddhist or Islamic group and expect them to change their policies to respect my beliefs. As a Stay at Home Mom, I wouldn't demand that a Stay at Home Dad's group include me b/c their group is cooler than my Mom's Group. :confused3 I could go on and on. I don't think that anyone should feel alone or isolated though. Everyone can start their own group, I guess it would be really cool if the GLBT community could start their own military training group, I dunno, like I said, I don't have an answer. I just think that globally, the world (and it's peoples) has gotten so large, that no one should feel left out and no one should be forced to change to accommodate a few people, there is room for everyone. Unless of course, we're talking about the "I-believe-its-OK-to-beat-up-everyone-I-don't-like-club, I mean there has to be boundaries SOME where....

[Princess_Michelle]

I was in the military too and could have cared less who was showering next to me during basic training. 50 nude people in a shower together had enough angst without giving thought to what anyone else looked like or if anyone was giving thought to what I looked like.

The reason gays are not legally allowed into the military is because the federal government is not willing to acknowledge the gay community for political and economic reasons.

Right, but not everyone is like you. A majority of people, especially at 18 & 19 years old, DO care about showering next to people.

I realize the reasons behind the gays not allowed stance, I was merely talking about issues that might arise either way. Not saying the shower situation was the reason, LOL. I don't even know why I'm still talking about it...

[mickeyfan1]

Michelle, how do you know that the "majority" is uncomfortable in that situation? If you go to any female oriented function, Jazzercize for example, while everyone is dressed there, how do you know that there aren't 15 Lesbians and you? Do you think they would feel uncomfortable knowing that you are not like them?

The situations you point out are not all the same. A publically funded institution can not discriminate against anyone, thus women can now attend and excell at the military academies and colleges in this country. Comparing these places to religious or "Stay at Home" groups is rather silly, IMO.


While you say there is room for everyone, you then qualify it by saying there is room for everyone as long as they stay with in their own group.

[mickeyfan1]

Right, but not everyone is like you. A majority of people, especially at 18 & 19 years old, DO care about showering next to people.




Please, tell us how you know this? Unless you mean that most 18 and 19 year olds want to shower with the opposite sex? Because in my experience, at least when I hung out with 18 and 19 year olds (when I was that age) and then having had a child that age, most of them were gung ho to see the opposite sex naked, and in the shower, that was even more of a bonus!

[Nancyg56]

But, as a father, trying to raise a 6 year old daughter, it is difficult to explain when she knows mommy and daddy as partners he entire life, then see's to men kissing in public. Then sees shows on TV with men being gay (will and grace). (yes, we controll her TV, but stuff happens).

My point was, children are bombarded with gay and lesbianism on TV, in the movies, in print. And yes, the rainbow which has been adopted by the community.

Now if you say that gay and lesbians were born with that orientation, I can understand that. But again, most of the worlds population is not orientated that way and having to defend our children from that type of content is hard. If they see enough of it, then there may be a "choice" to go that way. So that is why i dont by the a "we were bron this way".

It is a choice for most, and it's not how nature / god intended the hman species.

I am entitled to my view points just like you are. It's not hate to have believes that dont match yours.



I normally do not come to this board but saw the post on the index and I feel compelled to respond.

I am a Mother, have raised three children to adulthood, have a 6 YO DGD and can assure you that children are bombarded with a lot more than seeing gay men and women on TV. There is violence, abusive and foul language, a lot of innuendo on shows featuring heterosexuals, and it goes on ans on. Your kids are not going to be scarred for life if they come in contact with people of the same gender who are committed to each other. They won't even think much of it unless you point out to them your viewpoint.

My BIL was gay and my children were fine with that. They did not question his sexuality, his partner or his lifestyle. It just was what it was. None of them "caught" it by their interaction with their uncle, they were enriched by it, just as all children are blessed to have family who love them.

My BIL did not choose his orientation. He did not choose to be ostracized by family members, he did not choose to get beaten up by people who thought he was a joke, he did not choose to be different in a time when there was little to no tolerance for Gays. He was born the way he was, the same as you were. Your children will not choose their orientation, but will you accept it if one finds that he or she is attracted to people of their own gender or will you try to "protect" them from themselves?

You are entitled to your opinions but I don't agree with them or understand the fear you have. With all of the worries we have as a country today, this would be the last problem I would have in raising my children. I would put more energy into worrying how to protect them from what the future holds if we continue engaging in wars rather than diplomacy. And if it gets worse I would worry if we don't have gay men and women willing to enlist to help keep people free to have the right to discriminate against them.

[kaytieeldr]

My point was, children are bombarded with gay and lesbianism on TV, Bombarded? Really? Surely not in advertising, and scanning my brain quickly, the only gay character on any current show is Kenneth, who appears once in a great while on "My Name is Earl". Well, okay, there's one talk show host, and up here in liberal Massachusetts we have a news anchor who's gay. But bombarded?

We slept in huge bays with 50 or so girls, guys with guys, etc. While I personally didn't give a crap who I slept in the same room with, I do know of many girls that went through Basic with me, who would feel uncomfortable sleeping in the same room with a lesbian, just like they would feel if guys were allowed to sleep in the room.
The only part I would have an issue with, would be the shower situation. The older facilities have giant shower "rooms". A big room, tiled, no stalls...just about 10 spouts and a few drains. I would not feel comfortable showering with anyone who was attracted to the female sex, man or woman. But those perspectives are based - erroneously, I feel - on the assumptions that sexual attraction is solely physical, and that every person is automatically attracted to every other person of the gender to which they are oriented and will automatically approach or come on to every such available person.
Would we need only 4 bays? I would be more comfortable if they had a southern bay, yankee bay, hispanic bay, Asian bay......... Five. No WAY I would shower with a Yankee. Go Red Sox!!!! ;)
To me, this is something people say when they are trying to start something. It's all in the interpretation. I see it as humor (okay, fine, and as pointing out the ridiculousness of separate bays based on sexual attraction).
I really do understand where you are coming from. Some people (gay or straight) have different ways of thinking about sexuality and the human body. But, a vast majority of people, from all religious and ethnic backgrounds, do not believe in/feel comfortable with being naked in front of the opposite sex. Those people might best be served by not putting themselves in such situations.
I don't think it's fair for a Stay at Home Mom's Group to have to include one Dad.... As a Stay at Home Mom, I wouldn't demand that a Stay at Home Dad's group include me b/c their group is cooler than my Mom's Group. Well, reasonably - why not? How many Stay at Home Dads groups - or even just individual Stay at Home Dads in any given community - exist? How sensible is it to discriminate/ban somebody from participation based SOLELY on gender?

[Pakey]

Right, but not everyone is like you. A majority of people, especially at 18 & 19 years old, DO care about showering next to people.

I realize the reasons behind the gays not allowed stance, I was merely talking about issues that might arise either way. Not saying the shower situation was the reason, LOL. I don't even know why I'm still talking about it...

Modest military personnel?? An oxymoron if I've ever heard one. You should have never signed enlistment papers then.

[donald...really]

Nancyg56, please come to this board more often! We need more wonderful people around like you.

[Magpie]

Hey - I don't actually belong here. This thread caught my eye on the main board and I just had to find out what the crazies were saying. And then I had to keep reading, just to find out more about the guy who thought his kid could catch "teh Gay" from the media. ;)

But, now I have to throw in my two cents as a woman who has been in the Canadian military. Frankly, I've always wished they'd do away with the whole "boys over here, girls over there" routine, and just treat us all the same. Our (rather ancient) facilities aren't set up to accommodate separate women's quarters, resulting in wasted space and cramped quarters for everyone.

And when we're in the field - geez, everyone sleeps together anyway! When you're exhausted, piled together like a lot of very cold, rather wet, puppies, no one's thinking about sex. I've fallen asleep with my head on one guy's stomach and another man's head resting on my own stomach. Once a really stupid officer decided I couldn't sleep with the guys, so I had to take my tarp way out into the woods and sleep all alone. Gee, I felt SO much safer! :rolleyes1 THAT's when I started sleeping with my knife, because there were a couple guys you just couldn't trust.

Yeah, sex is a problem in the military, but not in the showers. Sex is a problem in the bars, after hours, and with our superior officers. I think they should really crack down on sexual harassment and quit the whole "wink-wink" thing that results in stuff like our Sergeant making the girls kneel to get their weekly allotment of condoms. He'd shout, "Assume the position!" and then crack up as he handed them out. Jerk. :mad:

I never gave a good ******* what the sexual orientation of any of my fellow recruits was. I can't say I ever even thought about it. Even if some of the other women were gay, why should I assume they've got any interest in ME? And if they did, so what? I've had girls make passes at me, both in and out of the military. It's a compliment, and I don't have any issue with saying, "Sorry, not interested, but thanks anyway." Exact same thing I say when a guy makes an unwanted pass at me.

Oh... and I have to say the thought of a whole lot of naked straight men packed into a shower together just makes my heart go pitter-pat. :rotfl: Yeah, I write slash fiction.

[OrlandoMike]

Hey - I don't actually belong here.

Of course you belong here! Welcome! :love:

[NYBlue1]

Hey - I don't actually belong here.

Anybody that wants to be here belongs here! You dont have to be Gay or Lesbian to be here we enjoy hearing from everyone , I enjoyed your post, even though Im an american I respect your service to your country, stop by whenever you want or see a topic you want to talk about!

[DisneyMomOK]

Another reason to go to the Community Board: support for Fred Phelps. I got in trouble for calling him evil...

Sharon

PS The reason why this military thing seems so upside-down to me is because I have always felt the folks that I knew in the 70's that came out in my own litttle piece of Middle America were unbelievably brave and isn't that what a military is all about, brave men and women protecting their homeland?

[OrlandoMike]

I have always felt the folks that I knew in the 70's that came out in my own litttle piece of Middle America were unbelievably brave and isn't that what a military is all about, brave men and women protecting their homeland?


Amen sister! And our friends in New York in the day! Dad's History lesson for today....


http://youtube.com/watch?v=3UNOXD7HfCE

[NYBlue1]

Another reason to go to the Community Board: support for Fred Phelps. I got in trouble for calling him evil...

Sharon

PS The reason why this military thing seems so upside-down to me is because I have always felt the folks that I knew in the 70's that came out in my own litttle piece of Middle America were unbelievably brave and isn't that what a military is all about, brave men and women protecting their homeland?

He is evil, you pegged that one, there are many many christian folks that agree with him..to a point...I would say that being minus the funeral picketing, everything else would be a ok for them.

There are many that want nothing to do with this line of thinking either, its sad that groups are thought of by their most extream members, personally I would never even think of mr phelps going anywhere but down and im a christian, so hey another opinion .

I have been insulted and beraided by some of the holyest of holy on the disboard, they have no respect for anybody that does not agree with them, they cut and insult in the name of God and religion, it really is amusing to read most of time, enjoy watching them be everything they claim not to be, its amusing. :)

[DisneyMomOK]

Well, you would have thought that people would have at least assumed he was going to be in Purgatory for a while...

Sharon

[rie'smom]

My husband has 2 brothers who are gay. Bill died of complications of AIDS. He showed as much courage fighting his illnesses as he did fighting discrimination from nutballs. If he had chosen to join the military, they and we would have been lucky to have him.
2 words to the gays and lesbians serving to protect us, thank-you.

[DisneyMomOK]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3UNOXD7HfCE[/url]

Thanks, Mike. I especially liked the sign from Oklahoma:) .

My heart does break, though, to think that so many of those boys should be going gray, as I am, but instead they died long before their time. :sad1:

Sharon

[BarleyJack]

I normally do not come to this board but saw the post on the index and I feel compelled to respond.

I am a Mother, have raised three children to adulthood, have a 6 YO DGD and can assure you that children are bombarded with a lot more than seeing gay men and women on TV. There is violence, abusive and foul language, a lot of innuendo on shows featuring heterosexuals, and it goes on ans on. Your kids are not going to be scarred for life if they come in contact with people of the same gender who are committed to each other. They won't even think much of it unless you point out to them your viewpoint.

My BIL was gay and my children were fine with that. They did not question his sexuality, his partner or his lifestyle. It just was what it was. None of them "caught" it by their interaction with their uncle, they were enriched by it, just as all children are blessed to have family who love them.

My BIL did not choose his orientation. He did not choose to be ostracized by family members, he did not choose to get beaten up by people who thought he was a joke, he did not choose to be different in a time when there was little to no tolerance for Gays. He was born the way he was, the same as you were. Your children will not choose their orientation, but will you accept it if one finds that he or she is attracted to people of their own gender or will you try to "protect" them from themselves?

You are entitled to your opinions but I don't agree with them or understand the fear you have. With all of the worries we have as a country today, this would be the last problem I would have in raising my children. I would put more energy into worrying how to protect them from what the future holds if we continue engaging in wars rather than diplomacy. And if it gets worse I would worry if we don't have gay men and women willing to enlist to help keep people free to have the right to discriminate against them.


Absolutely brilliant! Thank you so much! :hug:

[JennyMominRI]

i was a straight woman in the Marines. Guess what? There were lesbians..I served with them.. We all did. Guess what? We didn't give a crap..
I knew a lot of men who didn't like serving with me because I was a woman. Tough. I knew people who didn't like serving with black people..Again..tough.
These are the exact same arguments people used against having women and AA's in the military.. Again.. They will deal with it... They already have been dealing with it..There always have been and always will be gay people in the military.

[prncesaurora21]

i sometimes lurk here and as a straight 20-something female with many friends who are gay i just have to agree with the majority of you who say that just because someone is gay does NOT mean that they are checking you out constantly. i have never felt uncomfortable around my lesbian friends (or their lesbian friends of friends etc lol).

i have never been able to comprehend judging anyone based solely on one aspect of their identity (race, gender, sexual orientation, age, whatever!). i was luckily raised by parents who never made an issue out of these things and it took some pretty nasty comments made by people i met out in the world for me to be exposed to this type of discrimination. i understand that people are entitled to their own opinions but i will never agree that spreading messages of hate are the right way to raise children. nor is never exposing them to beliefs that are not your own.

sorry to rant but i guess i just felt that it needed to be said and here is a good place for me to say it :) maybe someday we will figure all of this out and issues like this won't even come up in the first place but until then all we can do is continue to promote tolerance and hope for the best.

[parrothead365]

I'm a Vet and yes we all served with Gays. Who cares?? If you are/where willing to raise your hand and swear to protect this country with your life I don't give a rat's behind(sorry Mickey) what color you are, what sex you are, or who you kiss. I'm thankful you stood up to be counted. I have bigger things to worry about.

[Kevin&Randall]

Normally I refrain from comment on debates of this nature, because I believe that very little positive comes from it. I don't think people's beliefs will change just because I post a reply.

But every now and then I need to respond. The quote below is edited by me to only pull out the statement I wish to address...

... The only part I would have an issue with, would be the shower situation. The older facilities have giant shower "rooms". A big room, tiled, no stalls...just about 10 spouts and a few drains. I would not feel comfortable showering with anyone who was attracted to the female sex, man or woman. :confused3 I would constantly feel self conscious about my body. As would most girls. I imagine so would most guys. Once you make it to your company, you are put with a smaller amount of girls, like 30. The bathrooms are newer, at least they have stalls, not that they have doors.....Basically, at night, we would have to toe the line, Drill Sgt. would go over stuff for the day, and next day, etc. We had SEVEN (we got more time as we got farther along in the course) minutes to get showered, ready for bed, and back on the line. She would say go, we would all run for the bathroom, strip, get in line buck naked, and file into the showers, sometimes, 2 or 3 to a stall. We're talking rubbing bodies here people. :scared1: I imagine that's why so many close friendships are made in the military :) ....

Do you honestly believe that gays and lesbians have no self control? Do you think that just because I see another naked male I will turn into some uncontrollable sex-crazed beast? I guess you do because that is the very basis of your arguement. Do you think that because everyone is in the same shower the gays will come in and just go wild?

Wrong.

I do have self control. I do know when it is appropriate to act -- a public shower is not one of them. Just as the middle of a Disney Theme Park is as inappropriate. Or a bus station. Or restroom at Sears.

Why does this issue revolve around sex in the first place? This issue is about personal ability, self sacrafice and the willingness to believe that fighting for freedom is more noble than fighting to suppress them.

Those in our military should not be judged on any part of their personality, but should be judged on their ability to perform their jobs. Everyone in society should be granted the same courtesy.

So everyone is entitled to their opinions and state what they will. Please realize that these issues of being gay, nature vs. nurture, don't-ask-don't-tell, become so hotly debated because it hits to the core of gay's and lesbian's identities. Others are stating we are somehow inferior, and that is the intolerable debate we seem to be having.

I will now climb down off of my soapbox and return to my room.

Thank you.

Randall
:rainbow:

[Mackey Mouse]

OK.....straight, older woman, been posting on the Dis for what seems to be forever, just wanted to post in support of my new friends here on the G & L Board....

I live in liberal MA....actually very near PTown, I love going there, the creativity, love and happiness that you feel in that liberated town is amazing.

Anyhow, I have nothing impressive to say other than I feel that we all are free and should be able to live our lives free to love whomever we want. As far as PDA's are concerned, in WDW or anywhere, I think sometimes I am uncomfortable with that if it is over the top, but an occasional peck on the cheek or a hug, why not. I hold my husband's hand and hug him while walking through WDW...is that inappropriate??

Recently, we were in WDW, husband and myself. We were at Teppanyanki and were sat with a family, two Daddys, an Auntie and three children....I have never seen more love and attention, kindness, understanding, tolerance and respect for the family unit than I did that night. My DH and I still to this day discuss the day we met this great family... Auntie was there as an extra pair of hands, but these two men had it together and all I can say to this day was Wow....it was incredible seeing their family interact.

[Magpie]

Snipping for size:

I do have self control. I do know when it is appropriate to act -- a public shower is not one of them. Just as the middle of a Disney Theme Park is as inappropriate. Or a bus station. Or restroom at Sears.

Yep! Sexual harassment is sexual harassment regardless of who commits it, and the consequences should be the same for everyone. It's perfectly reasonable to expect everyone to behave with respect toward each other and sexual orientation clearly has nothing to do with it. I've been harassed by straight men, and also known straight men who'd be horrified at the idea of pushing something on me that I didn't want. I can only assume there's a similar distribution of jerks versus great guys in the gay community, too.

I know one man who now struggles with his attitudes toward gay men, thanks to a very unpleasant encounter in a public bathroom when he was a teenager. He admits he's not being rational - or fair! - but having experienced being ogled and spied on while the other guy got off, he's twitchy on the subject. I do understand - I know women who can't trust straight men because of similar incidents. What both this guy, and the women I know, need to come to realize is that they had a bad encounter with an individual, not a representative of the whole group/gender. It's difficult!

Even fifteen years ago I was having to prove that women could pull their weight same as the men. I had to listen to guys ***** about women in the military and then turn around and tell me, "But you're not like the other girls." I'd name three other women I knew who took their jobs seriously, only to be told they weren't like the "other girls" either. Turns out the "other girls" were one, maybe two, individuals who were taking advantage of the stereotype of being the "weaker sex" to get out of doing their jobs.

This is what I'm trying to teach my children now - that each person is an individual and you can't deduce anything about their character from their race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation. Not in a negative way - and not in a positive way, either. Some folks will rise to the challenges in front of them, and some will voluntarily perpetuate their own ugly stereotypes if they think it's to their advantage. You can't say what they'll do until you've gotten to know them as people.

Anyway, just wanted to say I agree with you. And I'd like to add a thank you to the folks earlier in this thread who made me feel so welcome here! :hippie:

[smartestnumber5]

She would say go, we would all run for the bathroom, strip, get in line buck naked, and file into the showers, sometimes, 2 or 3 to a stall. We're talking rubbing bodies here people. :scared1:

Does anyone else think this sounds exactly like a porn scene? I just find this whole thing kind of :lmao:. We can't let gays in the military because that would make the straight people feel uncomfortable about rubbing their naked bodies together in the shower in packs of 50. One would think if you were going to feel insecure about your sexuality it would be because you are rubbing your naked body against a 50 people of the same sex every night, not because one or two of those people might be gay! :rotfl:

Me, I'd be worried about craps and herpes.

[Magpie]

Does anyone else think this sounds exactly like a porn scene? I just find this whole thing kind of :lmao:. We can't let gays in the military because that would make the straight people feel uncomfortable about rubbing their naked bodies together in the shower in packs of 50. One would think if you were going to feel insecure about your sexuality it would be because you are rubbing your naked body against a 50 people of the same sex every night, not because one or two of those people might be gay! :rotfl:

Me, I'd be worried about craps and herpes.

Me, me! And an awesome one, at that.

But that's just the slasher in me coming out again... :rotfl: How many hawt straight naked men do you have to rub together before one of them discovers that what he feels toward his best buddy ain't exactly platonic? Whee!

[OrlandoMike]

I find this whole thing amusing!

I've participated in and volunteered for a semi military youth activity for years! (Drum Corps) The kids, both gay and straight, do a lot of hard work during the day, spend hours marching, and operate pretty much like a small traveling army every summer.

I can assure you that when it came time to shower, the only thing on anyone's mind was just that, showering! The kids were given 45 minutes to shower, eat dinner, pack up, and get on the bus, much like being in the armed forces. They are much more concerned with getting in and out of the shower so they have more time to eat and relax!

The whole think is just a non-issue used by our government to discriminate!

[dwheatl]

I don't think that the actual enlisted men and women have any problem with serving next to a gay/lesbian soldier, I think it's the higher ups, who don't have the tolerance and the understanding to accept, that the times are changing, and the gays should be allowed to do their civil duty and serve.


Interesting thread, and I think you have covered the topic pretty well. I just had to disagree with Craig a little. I'm sure there are enlisted men and women who would have a problem serving with gays and lesbians. It made me think back to my friend's father's story of when he joined the military in the early 50's. He was Jewish, and one of the other enlisted men asked to see his horns. The man was totally serious and just woefully ignorant. My friend's dad set him straight (so to speak).
So one of the best things about the military is exposure to people with different backgrounds, so that those who have grown up with a restricted world view can learn through experience that we are all more alike than different. And that (along with just plain fairness) is one of the best arguments for gays in the military that I can think of.

PS :wave2: Pakey.

[D,L and K's Mom]

OH MY GOODNESS!!!!!! What I have read is just sick. I can't believe people in the world have enough time on their hands to worry about who loves who!!!! The key word is LOVE!!!! I have a terrible time explaining War, hate, violence and prejudice to my kids. I have no trouble explaining love to them in any way. People are people...we all bleed red not rainbow or yellow or black blood. Good gracious, wake up we have innocent men and women going to war and dying. It does not matter their age, their religion or whom they choose to love. They are dying and people they love are losing someone precious to them. I dont care if you believe in the war or not, it is not my place to say if it is right or wrong but anyone dying is wrong and anyone who wants to be brave enough to stand up and fight for my rights and the safety of my children is a HERO in my book. God (or whomever you believe in) bless them and keep them safe and return them home in one piece to the people they love!!!!!!!

[npmommie]

I live in liberal MA....actually very near PTown, I love going there, the creativity, love and happiness that you feel in that liberated town is amazing.



I don't usually come to this board, since like mackeymouse i am a straight married woman........but i noticed the thread about crazies. and had to come check it out.

and when I saw what mackey wrote above, I just have to second it.....
My hubby and I love Ptown, my kids love it.......the energy there is amazing, the people you meet there are amazing. It is a place where anyone can go and will find acceptance.
The rest of the world should take a look and learn a lesson about how it's done :)

[padalyn]

I normally do not come to this board but saw the post on the index and I feel compelled to respond.

My BIL did not choose his orientation. He did not choose to be ostracized by family members, he did not choose to get beaten up by people who thought he was a joke, he did not choose to be different in a time when there was little to no tolerance for Gays. He was born the way he was, the same as you were. Your children will not choose their orientation, but will you accept it if one finds that he or she is attracted to people of their own gender or will you try to "protect" them from themselves?

I am so sorry that your BIL had to endure the displays of intolerance. I have been very lucky - only one or two exposures to that type of thing. I agree that in order to be gay/lesbian one has to be willing to walk away from EVERYONE that one cares about. The process of coming out is laying ones soul bare for many to judge and realize that they themsleves are intolerant. A sad thing - but it does happen. I was lucky, as was my hunny. Our families both said - so what is the problem?

Nancyg56, please come to this board more often! We need more wonderful people around like you.
I agree Donald...welcome NancyG...please come again! The voice of common sense and reason is always welcome!

My husband has 2 brothers who are gay. Bill died of complications of AIDS. He showed as much courage fighting his illnesses as he did fighting discrimination from nutballs. If he had chosen to join the military, they and we would have been lucky to have him.
2 words to the gays and lesbians serving to protect us, thank-you.
The courage that your BIL showed that he would have been a force to reckon with - that death is much more horrible than many can imagine. I am sorry for your loss.


[FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=3]Do you honestly believe that gays and lesbians have no self control? Do you think that just because I see another naked male I will turn into some uncontrollable sex-crazed beast? I guess you do because that is the very basis of your arguement. Do you think that because everyone is in the same shower the gays will come in and just go wild?

Wrong.

Why does this issue revolve around sex in the first place? This issue is about personal ability, self sacrafice and the willingness to believe that fighting for freedom is more noble than fighting to suppress them.

I will now climb down off of my soapbox and return to my room.

Thank you.

Randall
:rainbow:
Kevin&Randall: I LOVED your comments - can I join you on that soapbox? Is there space for another person?? Please?

Years ago I had a co-worker refused to be assigned to work with me (we are stuck in a truck together for 12 hours) because she thought I would "hit on her" I could barely keep from laughing in her face...I told her to stop flattering herself. I think that suprised her more than anything.


I feel that the USA has become all that we "ran" away from over 200 years ago - perscution, religious stranglation, and taxation...so who are we? (not all luckily!)...a group of small minded people who are afraid of change and oh yea - taxed to death....ugh.

[padalyn]

Hey Donald...really -

what does your tag imply (being a Winnie the Pooh fan)

have you run afoul of the silly ol' bears not so nice fans????

[NYBlue1]

I don't usually come to this board, since like mackeymouse i am a straight married woman........but i noticed the thread about crazies. and had to come check it out.

and when I saw what mackey wrote above, I just have to second it.....
My hubby and I love Ptown, my kids love it.......the energy there is amazing, the people you meet there are amazing. It is a place where anyone can go and will find acceptance.
The rest of the world should take a look and learn a lesson about how it's done :)

Welcome! We are happy you stopped by, please come back anytime you see something intresting to comment on, we welcome everyone here and have a pretty good time chatting! :)

PTown is an awesome place , accepting, creative, all walks of life just enjoying the beautiful cape together!