PDA

View Full Version : 5 in our family ?


dbail2
02-15-2002, 06:52 PM
We are a family of 5. How many does a one bedroom sleep our kids are 8, 13 and 16 so a crib is out. If we bought into the BC would that mean we could or couldn't stay at the BW in July this year. The points are still confusing me. How many points do you need for 9 nights lets say at the BW July 20th till 28th? For a 2 bedroom or a one bedroom if we can fit????

zurgswife
02-15-2002, 07:01 PM
A one bedroom sleeps 4. One King and one pull out Queen..

More than 4 you'll need a two bedroom..

For a nine night stay in July for a 2 bdrm you would need 430 points. Did you consider not staying 3 weekend nights as they are 75 points for each night. Usually we try just to stay one weekend night, we also get a 2 bedroom.
.......

newt1912
02-15-2002, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by dbail2
We are a family of 5. How many does a one bedroom sleep our kids are 8, 13 and 16 so a crib is out.

I am sure this has been debated in the past but I am a new DVC member and new to these boards in the past month.

Why, when a 1BR has almost 2 times the amount of sq footage as a studio which sleeps 4 can you not sleep 5 in a 1BR?? Why, when a 1BR has almost 2 times the sq footage as any deluxe resort room on WDW property (which do allow 5) can you not sleep 5 in a 1BR? I really don't understand. I realize that there are only 2 beds but a child or a teenager thinks nothing of sleeping in the floor in a sleeping blanket or whatever. I know they say it has something to do with fire escape regulations but I thought fire regulations which govern how many people can be in a certain sq footage area had to do with overcrowding. For instance, a hall can only hold 250 people because of fire regulations - it would unsafe to hold more because of it being too crowded and difficult to escape. Since a 1BR has a lot of sq footage compared to a studio or deluxe resort room, where is the fire hazard in having 5 people in 700+ sq footage. No one can claim that the area is too crowded.

Perhaps I don't understand why 5 cannot book a 1BR. Help me understand. It seems that if you are allowed a 5th, when that 5th will be in a crib, doesn't make sense since a crib takes up more room than a sleeping bag which would be rolled up after being slept in.

Help me understand.

Thanks.

Werner Weiss
02-15-2002, 08:09 PM
A 1BR unit has a king bed in the bedroom (sleeps 2) and a pull-out sofa in the living room (also sleeps 2, though not as comfortably as the king). Thus, the maximum occupancy is 4, though I personally think it's really better for just 3. There are no rollaways or portable cots available.

There have been numerous threads on this board over the years describing how people bring in an air mattress so that a fifth person can sleep on the floor. The subject usually leads to debate. Bottom line: Although it's officially in violation of the occupancy rules, people get away with an extra child in the room, and DVC doesn't send the Mouse Police if someone notices a family of 5 in a 1BR.

When the four of us go to OKW (self, wife, 2 pre-teens), we always get a 2BR. The second bedroom means two additional beds (queen size), two more closets, another TV, and another bathroom. Now that's a vacation! It's great to have 2 bathrooms, real beds for everyone, and nobody sleeping in the living room. You can use the living room and kitchen, even while others are sleeping. That's especially nice if family members go to bed or get up at different times.

(Edited to fix spelling errors.)

Windjammer
02-15-2002, 08:11 PM
Newt:

This is a touchy subject.

I am not sure there is any real understanding of the reason. I think it is an artificial limit meant to increase Disney's revenue. As you stated, it cannot be based on square footage. Disney has its economic reasons I suppose.

My own opinion is that based upon the square footage in a one bedroom up to 6 should be allowed. If the room occupants don't mind being crowded, and/or sleeping on the floor why should anyone else care?

That being said, 6 would result in more wear and tear and use of hot water etc. so I could see an extra daily charge, such as the $10 charged in a normal resort room for each extra adult over 2.

A few weeks back I raised the issue of whether DVC should develop some one bedroom units with two full or queen beds in the bedroom so it could sleep 6. While some were in favor of the concept of providing a more affordable alternative for families of 5 or 6, others were against it. The thread ended up being locked. As I said, it is a touchy subject.

Absent the increased wear and tear, etc., which I agree could warrent an extra charge, it has not be rationally explained to me, why a family can't have 5 or 6 in a one bedroom unit, except, of course, the reason that it is against the rules. I guess what I mean to say is that absent Disney's interest in selling more points, I am not sure of the reason behind the rule. (other than increased wear and tear, etc., which I think could be countered with an extra charge)



Steve

robinb
02-15-2002, 08:35 PM
I'm disappointed that your sales person didn't tell you what the maximum occupancy of the various room types. It really helps in determining the proper number of points needed. It wouldn't be the first, or I gather, the last time. My guess is that they are just darn glad they have a sale and let you figure it out later :(.

Personally, I really don't care what you do :). You should just be aware of what the rules are.

Richyams
02-15-2002, 08:46 PM
I think it is an artificial limit meant to increase Disney's revenue.

No, Disney is selling a luxury resort experience. That experience can not be had if the resort is overcrowded. The facilities were built, the activities created, the sleeping arrangements decided upon based on a certain number of guests. If only 10% of OKW rooms have an extra kid, you have some 50-70 extra kids competing for a spot at the Un-Happy Birthday party.

There are tenements in the Bronx that allow extra kids to sleep on the floor, why do we need them at DVC?

I agree with Werner completely. I bought DVC to have comfortable vacations. A GV sleeps 12, I usually have six or eight....I am on vacation to relax. Letting kids have their own room is the only way to vacation.

There are plenty of off-site timeshares that will let people bring in all the people they want. DVC saves you money if you go anyway and stay, while folowing occupancy rules, in a moderate or deluxe. It is not a cheap way to do Disney, if one is looking to overcrowd rooms to try and do a Disney vacation for less than the party size really needs, DVC is not a good way to go.

While they have been know to look the other way, that may not always happen. I would only recomend buying if one plans to use the proper size unit for their party and buy the needed number of points.

newt1912
02-15-2002, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by robinb
I'm disappointed that your sales person didn't tell you what the maximum occupancy of the various room types. It really helps in determining the proper number of points needed. It wouldn't be the first, or I gather, the last time. My guess is that they are just darn glad they have a sale and let you figure it out later :(.

Personally, I really don't care what you do :). You should just be aware of what the rules are.

Robinb - if you were addressing the above to me, I just want to make it clear to all that I am very aware of what the maximum occupancy is of the various room types. I only asked the question because, even though I know the rule, I do not understand the reason for the rule. Occupancy rates are usually based on sq footage and a 1BR has a lot more sq footage than a studio; thus you would think that more than 4 persons - at least 5 - would be permitted. I have been in a 1BR and, believe me, it would be room enough for 5 in my opinion, especially when the 5 include young children as the initial poster to the thread has.

I first looked into DVC ownership back in 1998 when I was still traveling to WDW with my 3 kids. We always stayed in a deluxe room to accommodate 5. DVC was not for me back then because of traveling as a family of 5. I now have 2 kids in college and 1 in high school and my husband and I are free to travel on our own now and we are loving it. Thus, our decision to buy into DVC for at least a once a year winter getaway from the snow/cold of PA. If/when we travel with our 3 grown children, of course we would get a 2BR for privacy issues and 2 bathrooms. I just don't think that a family with 3 young children should have to use the points required for a 2BR.

Just my opinion.

Richyams
02-15-2002, 09:12 PM
I just don't think that a family with 3 young children should have to use the points required for a 2BR.

And they don't have to, DVC is not right for everyone.

robinb
02-15-2002, 09:32 PM
Newt1912,

{{blush}} Yet another example of me reading too fast! I thought that the original poster dbail2 said that s/he had already bought at BCV. *sigh* I understood the nature of your post :).

Johnnie Fedora
02-15-2002, 09:34 PM
Many DVCers have reported being very, very, comfortable in a 1BR with five. I guess if occupancy rates make for a more luxurious stay, the low season may be the the best time to visit your favorite DVC resort. Over crowding is much more of a problem when non-DVC guests use the facilities.

Richyams
02-15-2002, 09:44 PM
And many more are comfortable living responsibly and actually follow the rules that they agreed to.

I just always winder about how the parent justifies cheating the room limits to their children.

Caskbill
02-15-2002, 10:02 PM
Many posters seem to think that square footage should determine the number of occupants. That's wrong, square footage has nothing to do with it.

I could have a 1500 sq ft house with 3 bedrooms, or a 3500 sq ft house with 3 bedrooms. The bedrooms determine the sleeping capacity, not the size of the house. Putting people on the floor does not increase designed capacity.

The resort was designed so people could sleep in a bed, not on the floor. All that extra room is for a kitchen, laundry room, larger bathroom, and a great living room. The extra square footage is for extra <b>living</b> space, not for extra sleeping space. That's what makes a DVC resort deluxe instead of just another hotel room.

That's why the 'rules' state the number of occupants.

I suppose DVC could tear out all the kitchens, take out the living room furniture, and fill all that space with beds. What would you have then? An oversized hotel room that sleeps 8?. Not exactly the home away from home I purchased!

Johnnie Fedora
02-15-2002, 10:09 PM
Many also have reported a more luxurious and relaxing vacation when they aren't spending their time counting the number of persons on the elevator, in the hot tub, on the tram, in the dining room, on the lobby sofa, on the bus, etc. Parents have an awful lot of justifying to do during a WDW trip.;) :rolleyes: ;) :rolleyes:

brittsmum1998
02-15-2002, 10:21 PM
LOL Johnny!! I don't suggest tearing out the laundry room, kitchen etc. Maybe they could just put 2 beds in the HUGE bedroom. I know this has been debated before. I only have 3 total in my family and I would appreciate the 2nd bed in the bedroom. Right now DD who is almost 4 sleeps with us in king bed. We will be purchasing an air mattress very soon and I'm not over the capacity. We get the one bdrm so that noone has to sleep in the living room. A family of 3 forever and I can't justify buying more pts. Its unfortunate that being a one family income...hubby doesn't make more $$ ;) :rolleyes: I would hate to think that a family of 5 would not be able to afford the luxury of DVC and the wonderful memories it creates due to one additional person in that villa. I sometimes resent :rolleyes: (maybe a little too strong of a word) that we pay almost double the pts for the same occupancy as a studio. Me thinks some people need to relax a bit ;) WE;re all one big happy family. And please I would hate to see reference made to "occupancy overload creating more dues" We have no idea when our dues is used for overloaded villas let alone what cash people are doing. And yes...I will teach my daughter to follow the rules but that doesn't mean I need to agree w/ them.:rolleyes: ;) I'll leave that to the liberals:p ;) :p ;) :p ;)

normr
02-16-2002, 12:19 AM
OK, next we'll have DVC barracks, just like in the service, or what next bunk beds

Deb & Bill
02-16-2002, 01:02 AM
Good one, normr. Maybe they can build the DVC Pods for people who like to crowd together in a unit. Kind of like those "hotels" I've read about in Japan where you only get an enclosed berth.

Me thinks that people who can't afford DVC should buy into one of the other timeshares outside of Disney.

And I have a more relaxing vacation when I don't have to put up with a zoo next door or overhead.

newt1912
02-16-2002, 06:26 AM
I'd like to thank everyone who is posting to this thread. I am loving this DVC Forum and I am learning so much about the DVC. My original questioning of why not 5 has resulted in very good posts explaining the rationale for the rule. I actually had never given thought to the wear and tear issue; overcrowding at the resort's facilities based on expected number of guests vs true number of guests if each 1BR had 5 instead of 4 persons; the DVC deluxe experience, etc. All reasons given for the occupancy limit of 4 in a 1BR do actually make sense to me now that I have heard other's opinions.

Thanks again.

Regina
02-16-2002, 06:54 AM
Newt1912, it's refreshing to see how open to other's opinions you are. Usually this topic leads to heated debate, and I commend you for viewing this issue through other's eyes.

One of the main reasons that we made the decision to join was due to their being 5 of us.

Before DVC, we only had the option of staying at the Deluxe Resorts. They're beautiful, but it still came down to 5 of us in one room. That meant 1 bathroom, and two daughters sharing a bed (complete with the daily arguments about who touched who).

I welcomed the occupancy requirement. In the long haul, our trips were much more economical than when we stayed in the Deluxes, and much more enjoyable.

brittsmum1998
02-16-2002, 07:07 AM
I will make sure my future ressies are NEVER underneath a two bedroom...I would hate to be underneath that "zoo" of people occupying a 2 bedroom who all choose to be in the livingroom / kitchen area at once! ;)

dkfogt
02-16-2002, 07:18 AM
We bought into DVC at WDW the first week in Feb 2002. We are a family of 5. When trying to decide the size of the accomodations we would need, our DVC rep told us that while the studio and 1 bdrm sleep 4, you are allowed to have 5 in either of them as long as the 5th person is a child, and you will need to bring an air mattress or sleeping bag because they don't have cots. Now, I have no desire to put the 5 of us in a studio (wow-cramped), but we will be fine in a 1 bdrm.

:pinkbounc :pinkbounc :pinkbounc

Fenceman
02-16-2002, 08:01 AM
This March will probably be our last 1-bedroom trip with 5. Our children are 9, 5, & 3. Even though the 9 year old does not mind sleeping with the others now, I doubt it will last. We just added on for the reason of expanding to a 2-bedroom.

It seems I have spoiled my DW and she likes the idea of putting the kids to bed in their own room and having the use of the living room. And to think we started at HH in a studio when the smallest was just a baby and we said to ourselfs "wow, look at all this room, and it even has a microwave!":)

Dean
02-16-2002, 08:02 AM
Originally posted by dkfogt
our DVC rep told us that while the studio and 1 bdrm sleep 4, you are allowed to have 5 in either of them as long as the 5th person is a child, and you will need to bring an air mattress or sleeping bag because they don't have cots. I don't have strong feelings on this subject for "reasonable" excursions off the rules path. Ignoring enforcement, the official line is 4 plus a crib child under 3. I really am not sure the main reasons for the occupancy limit. Whether it's resort experience, fire issues, bedding, wear and tear, more money, parking; I don't really know or frankly care. The issue is that's what the limits are, at least for someone about to buy in. I realize that DVC is slack about enforcement at this time and that the guides and at times resorts and MS have given a lot of flexibility. Those issues are irrelevant as well, fancy a timeshare salesperson stretching the truth a little. Do not count on using the line "but the DVC guide said", it will have NO meaning after you sign the paper.

Most timeshare are very firm on occupancy limits and will ask you to get to the limit or leave. Others will charge you extra, usually around $10 per person per day. I have a friend that stayed at Port o Call on HH in a 3 BR and they had to sign a paper that said if they were over the limit (I think it was 12) they would be asked to leave. If they did not within a certain amount of time (I think it was 2 hours) they would have to pay $200 and so on. This issue also applies to exchanges in that if one exchanges, count on the occupancy limits being strictly enforced. Some units, esp studios, may sleep 4 but only say 2 on the exchange. Once again a place to do your homework, especially when exchanges are concerned.

kid@heart
02-16-2002, 11:04 AM
It is amazing that you can put five in a studio+ at BWV, but only four in a one bedroom. I agree with the original poster, it doesn't make sense.

I started this topic almost two years ago. It's one that will always be split and both sides are very passionate about their opinions. Do what you know is right and enjoy you membership in DVC. We joined in October of 2000 and have been home five times since, with two trips planned later this year. We love it!

Have a Disney day!

:D :D :D

newt1912
02-16-2002, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by kid@heart
It is amazing that you can put five in a studio+ at BWV, but only four in a one bedroom.
:D :D :D

Wow! I just keep learning more and more each day by reading these boards. What is a Studio +? I saw the term before but paid no attention to it. We bought in at VWL and perhaps there is no Studio + there because our guide never mentioned a Studio +. So, again, what is a Studio + and which resorts have these Studio + rooms?

Thanks.

Chuck S
02-16-2002, 11:25 AM
Jeanette,

Only BWV has a studio plus. They have an extra day bed (small, for a child). Like any other room request, they are NOT guaranteed.

kid@heart
02-16-2002, 11:26 AM
BWV has a studio+ room which is a regular studio with a day bed. You can sleep two in the bed, two in the fold out sofa, and one on the day bed. The day bed probably wouldn't work for kids over say ten. We have three kids (15, 8, 5) and it works great. We don't mind the smaller accomodations because we are rarely in the room except to sleep. When we're on vacation we don't cook so a kitchen isn't needed. We might make sandwiches or microwave something. So you can have five in the room without breaking the rules and making other members mad. We have 500 points, we just prefer to go more often instead of blowing it on larger rooms. Have fun!

:D :D :D

normr
02-16-2002, 01:48 PM
We are a family of 4 and alway did the 1 bedroom but after we tried the 2 bedroom, we're completely spoiled, it was great having the living room to relax in and watch TV and not have to worry about waking the kids. Plus the 2 bathrooms is well worth the extra points alone ( heck they should have even made the 1 bedrooms with a half bath in the first place, the one bedroom suite we stayed in at Hotel New york in Disneyland Paris has one and a half baths .

I understand the problem families of 5 have, if you feel so strongly about the need for a unit that has 2 queens in the bedroom, then go to an annual meeting and force a question, but that then brings the unit up to 6 people sleeping capability.

ripleysmom
02-16-2002, 06:21 PM
"And many more are comfortable living responsibly and actually follow the rules that they agreed to.

I just always winder about how the parent justifies cheating the room limits to their children."

And once again Rich I will point out that if DVC allows it then your gripe should be with DVC. Calling people cheats for doing what DVC and MS allows is wrong IMHO.

As for the sleeping on the floor comment that is uncalled for as well. If we were to use a 1 BR for a trip, my son would probably sleep on the floor since he hates being in a bed with his sister. I'm sure that there are many people with 4 in a 1 BR that have one of the occupants sleeping on the floor for this exact reason.

Caskbill
02-17-2002, 03:14 AM
And once again Rich I will point out that if DVC allows it then your gripe should be with DVC. Calling people cheats for doing what DVC and MS allows is wrong IMHO.

Just because something that is wrong cannot be totally enforced does not then make it OK. If someone breaks into my house, and the police can't catch them, should my gripe then be with the police? Or does it belong toward the perpertrator?

Should I not call someone driving 65 mph in a 55mph zone a speeder just because the police didn't stop him/her?

If someone lies on their income tax and claims something they shouldn't (such as excess charitable contributions...the number one fudged item per the IRS), should I not call them a cheater because the IRS doesn't go after them?

If someone receives the incorrect change at a retail establishment, knows it, and takes the money anyway, are they not a thief?

Breaking the rules, any rules, is still wrong. If you don't like the rule, try to get it changed. But to simply condone it as alright is wrong. Unfortunately this sends a message to all our children everyday, that you can ignore the rules as long as you don't get caught.

Cheating is cheating, like it or not. I don't understand why so many people think cheating is OK as long as you don't get caught.

And now you're saying it's even improper to call them cheaters?

Just how many people would have to be in the room before you would call them cheating? 6? 8? 10? If someone put a dozen people in a studio, and DVC didn't kick them out, then does that mean they're not cheating and it's OK for everyone else to do that because DVC allowed it?

The solution is simple. Either follow the rules, or petition to get them changed. To call someone else wrong for pointing out that cheating is cheating, is to me totally backwards. IMHO

ripleysmom
02-17-2002, 07:41 AM
Bill, I am not talking about people who sneak in 5 I am talking about someone who calls MS and tells them that there will be 5 in a room and they are allowed to do it. MS accepts the reservation. In that case why are these people cheats?

This does happen a lot. Do a poll, on the whole I think that you'll find that MS accepts these reservations with little or no problem. If that is the case then why call someone a cheater for doing what they have been given permission to do?

WebmasterDoc
02-17-2002, 08:54 AM
As always, this topic has drifted to it's usual debate and thus will have to be continued in one of the threads already ongoing there.

Here is a link to a similar <a href="http://198.65.131.237/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53589&perpage=15&highlight=occupancy&pagenumber=7">DIScussion</a> of the last few months.

Enjoy!