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View Full Version : Print color - what am I doing wrong?


MarkBarbieri
10-09-2007, 07:03 AM
My prints are coming out with a magenta cast and I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. My monitor is calibrated. I'm printing using CS2. I'm using a Canon i9900. I'm printing on Canon Photo Paper Pro. Here are the steps I'm taking:

1) First, I'm going to View|Proof Setup|Custom and making the following selections: Device to Simulate = Canon i9900 PR1, Preserve RGB Numbers unchecked, Rendering Intent = Perceptual, Black Point Compensation checked. Simulate Paper color checked.

2) I select View|Proof Colors. I should now be seeing the best approximation that my monitor can make of how my print will look on that printer. The picture looks fine.

3) I go to File|Print With Preview.

4) On the Color Management settings, I make the following selections: Print = Document (not proof), Color Handling = Let Photoshop Determine Colors, Printer Profile = Canon i9900 PR1, Rendering Intent = Perceptual, Black Point Compensation checked.

5) On my printer properties, I have color adjustment set to Manual. Within that, I have ICM unchecked and Print Type set to None. Presumably this means that the printer will do no color managing.

When I print, I have the printer driver do a preview and the print it shows me on the screen looks good. When I print it, it has a significant magenta cast.

I'd swear that this process used to work. I've tested the print heads and all that stuff and the printer appears to be working fine. I suspect that I'm doing something stupid, but I can't figure out what it is and I'm tired of wasting ink. Any suggestions?

extreme8
10-09-2007, 09:16 AM
I don't know a heck of a lot about the Canon printers but on my Epson I have a seperate printer profile for each paper stock, not just a single profile for the printer.
Using the wrong paper profile causes all sorts of unpredictible color shifts on my stuff.

I realize you're fully up to speed on colorspace issues, but is it possible something changed there without you realizing it?

MICKEY88
10-09-2007, 09:25 AM
I don't know anything about your printer either, but I would second the thought of the paper profile.

also with my HP photo printer, my pics get a magenta cast to them when one of my ink cartridges is low..

Anewman
10-09-2007, 09:57 AM
My prints are coming out with a magenta cast and I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. My monitor is calibrated. I'm printing using CS2. I'm using a Canon i9900. I'm printing on Canon Photo Paper Pro. Here are the steps I'm taking:

1) First, I'm going to View|Proof Setup|Custom and making the following selections: Device to Simulate = Canon i9900 PR1, Preserve RGB Numbers unchecked, Rendering Intent = Perceptual, Black Point Compensation checked. Simulate Paper color checked.

2) I select View|Proof Colors. I should now be seeing the best approximation that my monitor can make of how my print will look on that printer. The picture looks fine.

3) I go to File|Print With Preview.

4) On the Color Management settings, I make the following selections: Print = Document (not proof), Color Handling = Let Photoshop Determine Colors, Printer Profile = Canon i9900 PR1, Rendering Intent = Perceptual, Black Point Compensation checked.

5) On my printer properties, I have color adjustment set to Manual. Within that, I have ICM unchecked and Print Type set to None. Presumably this means that the printer will do no color managing.

When I print, I have the printer driver do a preview and the print it shows me on the screen looks good. When I print it, it has a significant magenta cast.

I'd swear that this process used to work. I've tested the print heads and all that stuff and the printer appears to be working fine. I suspect that I'm doing something stupid, but I can't figure out what it is and I'm tired of wasting ink. Any suggestions?

Sounds like it should work.

But I have always wondered why we turn color management off on the printer end.

Groucho
10-09-2007, 10:11 AM
I don't have specific answers but I do know that sometimes we have the tendency to think that we know more than the software and hardware do, and that's not always the case. :lmao:

I'd try leaving some of the printer color management on. Presumably you don't get these tinted prints if you just leave everything on the default settings, so it must be one of the settings you've changed that's made things worse. Try to figure out how the printer wants you to use it, not the other way around.

MarkBarbieri
10-09-2007, 12:05 PM
I don't know a heck of a lot about the Canon printers but on my Epson I have a seperate printer profile for each paper stock, not just a single profile for the printer.
Using the wrong paper profile causes all sorts of unpredictible color shifts on my stuff.

I realize you're fully up to speed on colorspace issues, but is it possible something changed there without you realizing it?

The Canon i9900 PR1 profile is a for the printer (i9900) and the paper (PR1 = Photo Paper Pro in some bizarre Canon world).

It's entirely possible that I've screwed something up with the colorspaces (after all, if nothing was wrong my prints would be working), but I can't think of what it is. The most frustrating thing is that the print preview generated by the printer driver looks perfect. I'm tempted to just chuck it an by an Epson printer. Everyone I know that manages their colors uses an Epson, so I could rely on local help if I switched.

MarkBarbieri
10-09-2007, 12:06 PM
I don't know anything about your printer either, but I would second the thought of the paper profile.

also with my HP photo printer, my pics get a magenta cast to them when one of my ink cartridges is low..

My first thought was that it was an ink problem. I checked all my heads and cartridges and everything looks OK. I strongly suspect that the printer is still trying to color manage for some reason.

MarkBarbieri
10-09-2007, 12:17 PM
I don't have specific answers but I do know that sometimes we have the tendency to think that we know more than the software and hardware do, and that's not always the case. :lmao:

I'd try leaving some of the printer color management on. Presumably you don't get these tinted prints if you just leave everything on the default settings, so it must be one of the settings you've changed that's made things worse. Try to figure out how the printer wants you to use it, not the other way around.

I was getting decent prints before I started managing color. However, the colors on my prints were often different from what was on my screen. I started researching color management and was able to get much more accurate color out of my prints. The problem is that I quit printing for several months and now that I'm going back to it, I can't get it to work right anymore.

From what I learned with color management, someone (the printing software, printer driver, or printer) has to translate from the photo (and it's assigned colorspace) to the colorspace internal to the printer. The advantage of having Photoshop do that for you is that it gives you complete flexilibity in working colorspaces and it allows you to do soft proofing.

Soft proofing is where Photoshop translates your photo to the colorspace of the output device and displays it as closely as possible to how the print will look (given the limitations of your monitor). I often use this capability to make adjustments to the picture to make the print look more like how I want it to look. Doing that with soft proofing rather than a "guess, print, review, repeat" cycle saves a lot of time and money.

If you have Photoshop doing your color management, you can't also have your printer doing it. If you do that, the colors will be corrected twice with the results being "overcorrected" and looking wrong. Because of that, it is important that you tell Photoshop that it is to perform the color manament on the prints and tell your printer that it is not to do any color management. Assuming that you have an accurate ICC file for your printer, ink, and paper combination, the results should be pretty accurate. The results I'm getting look suspiciously like the printer is still trying to manage the color. I'm either botching a setting someplace, there is something wrong with my printer/ink/paper, or evil spirits are conspiring against me.

Thanks for all of the suggestions. BQ PM'd me to suggest that I try turning off the black point compensation as the guide Canon puts out on printing using color management (http://homepage.mac.com/renard/ls/Canon_ICC_Profile_Guide.pdf)suggests that you don't use it. I don't see how it could be the problem, but then I don't understand it either. I insist on making color management work again and I don't have any other ideas, so I'll try it.

mabas9395
10-09-2007, 12:40 PM
Are you using the official Canon ink cartridge? We picked up the cheaper Staples version of our printer's ink cartridge and I don't like the color at all!

Disney Ella
10-09-2007, 12:58 PM
The problem is that I quit printing for several months and now that I'm going back to it, I can't get it to work right anymore.



Did you print any documents in color on that printer while you weren't printing photographs? I used to have a laser printer and an inkjet printer and would use the laser printer much more than the inkjet printer. If I didn't use the inkjet printer at least every few days, something happened and the photos had either a yellow or blue tint, even though the cartridges were full. Print head cleaning didn't help and neither did totally new cartridges. I had to get rid of two inkjet printers before I finally gave up on the whole idea of printing any photos at home.

MarkBarbieri
10-09-2007, 01:03 PM
I do most of my printing on a color laser jet. I use the i9900 strictly for photos, mostly because the cost of ink is so insanely high. I've tried some cheaper third party inks but have not been happy at all.

While it is possible that the ink has somehow spoiled, I don't find that likely. When I do a print head test, all of the heads fire properly, the alignment looks good, and the individual colors look OK (not that I have a reference chart to compare them to). I'm almost certain that the physical characteristics aren't the problem. I'm convinced that I'm either making a user error or that there is a bug somewhere in the process and the color management isn't working correctly.

H.E. Pennypacker
10-09-2007, 01:12 PM
Maybe try printing from some other application other than CS2 (one that doesn't support color management) and let the printer do it's thing. If it still comes out with a magenta cast, check out the properties of the printer itself (you know, right click on the printer from within the Printers folder.) Maybe you've got a whacky profile assigned as the default profile in the printer properties settings.

Anewman
10-09-2007, 01:24 PM
If you have Photoshop doing your color management, you can't also have your printer doing it. If you do that, the colors will be corrected twice with the results being "overcorrected" and looking wrong.


I have not printed at home in a long while, but what if photoshop is managing colors assuming that the printer is using a certain profile that is being turned off by unchecking ICM?

I dont see color management as "correcting" colors, I see it more as how do I get the current colors to print the same on the output device. Maybe turning off ICM is what results in corrections because the image is no longer being managed, checking it may tell the printer to print exactly as Photoshop wants it to be.

SharonLowe
10-09-2007, 04:37 PM
Somehow, I believe the printer is still trying to manage the colors. I accidently forgot to tell my Epson not to color manage and had PS set to be the color manager. All the prints came out with a heavy magenta color cast. If you were happy with the prints with the printer doing the color management, turn it off in PS and go back to what you were doing.

safetymom
10-09-2007, 05:39 PM
You have to make sure that your monitor is seeing the image correctly first. Did you ever walk into a store that sold tv's and noticed that they all looked different? That's ok for tv's but not for monitors and printers.

You need to calibrate your monitor so it is seeing the colors correctly. Then you need to use a profile in Photoshop and probably turn off Color management on your printer. If you leave it on the printer then you have two sources managing the colors.

I have an Epson so I calibrate my monitor, then pick the correct paper profile in Photoshop , and then when I go to print I turn off color management in the printer driver. My pictures turn out wonderful this way.

0bli0
10-10-2007, 07:26 AM
i've never had decent results letting cs2/cs3 manage the colours. now i print in aperture using the specific printer/paper profile. i then also go into the printer's dialogue box and making sure the appropriate general settings are right for the paper as well (thicker paper, matte/gloss, scaling, etc.).

just out of curiosity, if you try to print the image from another app, do you get the same magenta cast?

Groucho
10-10-2007, 09:45 AM
I vote for just giving up and buying an Epson. :thumbsup2 :lmao:

MarkBarbieri
10-10-2007, 08:24 PM
Black Point Correction Unchecked - No change
Converting to Adobe RGB before printing - No change
Turning off color management in Photoshop and letting the printer manage the color - Still with a magenta cast
Converting to sRGB and printing from another app - Still with a magenta cast

I'm pretty sure that it's a printer problem. Anyone got $1,200 they want to donate so I can get an Epson 3800?

boBQuincy
10-10-2007, 08:45 PM
I vote for just giving up and buying an Epson. :thumbsup2 :lmao:

Fear, anger, pigment inks... the dark side are they! ;)

boBQuincy
10-10-2007, 08:55 PM
My i9900 was printing faint lines across the page but the nozzle checks didn't show anything wrong. It may be possible your printhead has a problem with whatever is the opposite of magenta.

Try printing some pure color bars and examining them under a magnifier. Other than that, new printheads are available for about $100 as I recall (try *that* with an Epson). :)

Groucho
10-11-2007, 11:54 AM
Try printing some pure color bars and examining them under a magnifier. Other than that, new printheads are available for about $100 as I recall (try *that* with an Epson). :)
I wouldn't bother, my Epson cost all of about $70 or so. :lmao: If I want "serious" printing done, I'll just take it to someone that has a "real" printer. It's not worth it for me, I do virtually no printing so it's far cheaper to do it ad hoc, and I'm not concerned enough about extremely precise color. (Still never calibrated my monitor, etc, and probably won't any time soon.)

Anewman
10-11-2007, 12:56 PM
Black Point Correction Unchecked - No change
Converting to Adobe RGB before printing - No change
Turning off color management in Photoshop and letting the printer manage the color - Still with a magenta cast
Converting to sRGB and printing from another app - Still with a magenta cast

I'm pretty sure that it's a printer problem. Anyone got $1,200 they want to donate so I can get an Epson 3800?

I would send that exact file to a lab and see how it prints, that only costs 20 cents.

manning
10-11-2007, 11:56 PM
Just a wild guess, when did you last calibrate your monitor?

MarkBarbieri
10-12-2007, 06:07 AM
I would send that exact file to a lab and see how it prints, that only costs 20 cents.
I'll give it a try, but I'm not expecting much. I've seen the picture on several monitors and computers and the color never looks anything like the way it is printing.

Just a wild guess, when did you last calibrate your monitor?
I calibrated it just before I started working on my prints - last weekend. The calibration stays pretty stable on it.

I ran out of green and yellow ink while trying to deep clean. I've order some new inks. We'll see if that helps.

Anewman
10-12-2007, 01:41 PM
I'll give it a try, but I'm not expecting much. I've seen the picture on several monitors and computers and the color never looks anything like the way it is printing.


I calibrated it just before I started working on my prints - last weekend. The calibration stays pretty stable on it.

I ran out of green and yellow ink while trying to deep clean. I've order some new inks. We'll see if that helps.

If calibration was off and you posted a sample here, it should look way off to us. If it looks good to everyone then it might not even be a color management issue, but more of a faulty printer issue.

Renysmom
10-13-2007, 12:54 AM
Mark -

When you fix your problem want to come here and fix my I990 problem? All mine are printing darker than they are on the screen and I cannot figure out why.

I may have to breakdown and "break" this printer so i can get a new one and if I do I will probably get an Epson as well.

manning
10-13-2007, 08:15 PM
Came across this on a search. maybe it will help.

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=101134&forum_id=56

It seems a few in that thread had the same problem.

Note the last post where the original poster finally solved the problem. He bought an Epson.

Someone was telling me that HP has come a long way with their printers. I guess they have a new line with individual tanks and using dye that is suppose to last a long time.

Bumpy Grumpy
10-15-2007, 06:46 PM
I have been having the same "magenta" problem printing from Elements 4 to my Canon 950 printer. This has been so frustrating since I went for the higher priced printer because it was supposed to be great with photos.

I just read an article in the Adobe Photoshop Elements magazine. The bottom line is that if your monitor is not CRT you need a color adjustment "program" to achieve the right signals to the printer. The article mentioned Pantone huey color monitor calibrator and the Color vision Spyder2 Express. I just ordered the Spyder2 on Amazon since it was cheaper. Wish me luck, if this works I'll post the results.

Arlene

MarkBarbieri
11-03-2007, 11:11 AM
I fixed the problem.

I did a test print using some patterns from Bill Atkinson's site. With that, it was obvious that the magenta cast was coming from the black ink. I suspect that the black ink in it was a couple of years old. I replaced all of the inks and it now looks OK.

It appears that the black ink starts to become magenta after it sits for a while. I wonder how much that occurs on the paper. I'm definitely going to switch to a pigment ink printer, but now I have the luxury of waiting until I feel like buying one.