Completely 100% disgusted

[themilesfamily]

Yesterday I was on another board that has a rent/trade section on their forums. That board was FILLED with posters who appeared to me to be selling DVC points for commercial purposes (offering thousands of points for sale, 11-month bookings at five or more resorts, bragging about how many satisfied customers they've had over the years.) This is in total violation of DVC rules.

What bothered me even more was that there were NUMEROUS confirmed reservations that were being resold at exorbitant prices for Christmas and New Year's -- usually by the same people who were offering thousands of points for sale. I'm guessing that people who are selling commercially buy up peak dates, specifically to resell them at a higher price, (again a violation of DVC rules.) I think that is totally unfair to the honest DVC'er who is looking to book a property during those times.

The thing that is scary to me is that, according to Disney rules, if they discover someone who is selling commercially, they reserve the right to immediately cancel all reservations made by these people. So someone could go to those boards, think they are making a good reservation with one of these commercial sellers, and their reservations could potentially be canceled.

What made me the maddest is that I flagged one of these posts and sent my concerns to the moderator -- who promptly e-mailed me back saying it's not their problem -- it's DVC's responsibility to catch these people.

I tried to e-mail DVC about this -- but I don't think my e-mail went through.

Any thoughts on this? Am I getting too worked up over nothing? Or has this already been discussed at length in other posts? (I'm new to all this.) Should I contact DVC by phone about this?

p.s. I'm not a DVC member yet, but we are talking about buying in the next few years, so I've been researching.

p.p.s. Sorry for the downer of a post -- I'm usually a cheery person -- but this really stuck in my craw! :)

[Chuck S]

This, unfortunately, is nothing new. While we have a rent/trade forum here on the DIS, the rules for posting are reviewed, and changed, as necessary. And those rules are enforced.

DVC can only do so much. Proving a particular owner or renter is violating the rules can be costly in terms of time. Also possibly costly monetarily, when talking about legal issues, to be sure if a reservation was canceled, sooner or later someone would be screaming lawsuit..even if Disney would prevail in legal action...it would cost money.

However, most members are savvy enough to book higher demand reservations at 11 months out, even booking day by day, which normally gets them their desired reservation.

DVC is a system designed to be most user friendly if you book early, that really is the key. And with no cancellation penalties unless you book less than 31 days out, if something does come up to where you have to cancel, it isn't a big problem, unless it is a last minute cancellation, like for medical reasons.

I normally travel in the off peak (non-holiday) periods, and have never had a problem getting a room at my home resort of OKW, even occasionally booking about 6 months out. Remember of course, that won;t be the case at smaller resorts that book up more quickly. But it certainly wouldn't hurt to report the website you saw..but if it is hosted in another country, there may be little DVC can do. Since you aren't yet a member, I would address your concerns to the regular WDW guest services contact email: wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com

[themilesfamily]

Chuck, the rent/trade board on DISboards is wonderful -- and is quite frankly the only place I would go to look for rental points. The fact that there are rules on this board -- and moderators who actually moderate -- is a benefit to EVERYONE.

Of course, boards and moderators can only do so much -- and should certainly NOT be held legally liable if someone selling commercially slips through the cracks, (i.e. renters beware -- rent at your own risk -- which is stated up front on DISboards.) I was just shocked at the "oh well" attitude of the moderators at the other board -- and apparently commercial sellers are aware of their "oh well" attitude and SURPRISE that's where they congregate.

Kudos to DISboards for being not just an informative, but a responsible place to come.

I think I am going to report that other board to Disney.

[wildernessDad]

It makes me sick to hear this. I hope that your email to DVC went through and I hope that DVC looks into the place and who is doing this.

[I'mNoPrince]

They went after the E-Bayers for a while but I tink they just changed screen names and started agian. They even had Web-sights set up telling how wonderful it was to get such a greta price compaired to Disney.

It stinks but is also a great way to book things right at the 30 day mark as they cancel anything they don't rent and the waitlist drop off and have to be renewed for those last few days.

It's just sad with all the members following the rules the few that are not are affecting most of us.

[jarestel]

This is a DVC problem that will have to be solved by DVC. Unfortunately, member dissatisfaction has very little to do with whatever course of action DVC may choose to pursue. I can empathize, but as I said, it's a problem that will require action on the part of DVC in order to rectify.

DVC has been a bit more stringent regarding numerous rentals recently, but outside of prohibiting any rental of points at all, there is a limit to what they can do to restrict the use of a member's points.

[I'mNoPrince]

This is a DVC problem that will have to be solved by DVC. Unfortunately, member dissatisfaction has very little to do with whatever course of action DVC may choose to pursue. I can empathize, but as I said, it's a problem that will require action on the part of DVC in order to rectify.

DVC has been a bit more stringent regarding numerous rentals recently, but outside of prohibiting any rental of points at all, there is a limit to what they can do to restrict the use of a member's points.


I agree but deep down wonder if they really see this as a way to get potential buyers in a room to view and pitch to. No different them them upgrading from a Value to a Studio to get them on the DVC resorts.

Here's a prime example from what looks like it could be a DIS member 5 all running in peak times.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Beach-Club-Timeshare-Rental-Studio-12-23-12-28_W0QQitemZ130160676675QQihZ003QQcategoryZ3257QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[GEB@okw]

Why get so upset with what another member does with his property? The POS sells they can rent it etc. Disney does not care, it's just another propective member to them. Just relax, make your ressies early and enjoy your membership.

[themilesfamily]

It concerns me for two reasons: 1) these commercial renters are knowingly disobeying their contract with Disney and 2) putting their rentees in jeapordy of losing their reservations.

I came across this info:

Disney Vacation Club is designed for members who own and use the DVC resorts for themselves and their family. It is not intended for members to set up commercial enterprises and rent points or vacations for profit.

Disney Vacation Club prohibits the rental of points for commercial purposes. When they discover reservations made by commercial renters, they cancel them without notice.

DVC POS (Public Offering Statement), Section XII (Use Restrictions), Paragraph 12.1 (Personal Use)

".....Use of the accommodations and recreational facilities of the Condominium is limited solely to the personal use of Owners or Cotenants, their guests, invitees and lessees and for recreational uses by corporations and other entities owning Ownership Interests in a Unit. Use of Vacation Homes and recreational facilities for commercial purposes or any purposes other than the personal use described herin is expressly prohibited. "Commercial purpose" shall include, but not be limited to, a pattern of rental activity by a Cotenant that the Association, in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice...."

Beginning in August 2006, Disney has become a lot more active in identifying commercial renters under the 'pattern of rental activity' and cancelling those reservations.

You can usually identify commercial renters as they use sites such as E-Bay with fancy text and photos. Some even have their own web sites.

Commercial renters usually charge far more than the average price for points. For example during 2006 rental prices generally run about $10-$11/point. Commercial renters usually charge $12/point or more.

[3DisneyKids]

Why get so upset with what another member does with his property? The POS sells they can rent it etc. Disney does not care, it's just another propective member to them. Just relax, make your ressies early and enjoy your membership.

Because what a member does with his/her property, they are doing to OUR property. DVC resorts are not owned by that one individual. We ALL own those resorts.

And Disney most definitely does care. It has developed the bright line test (discussed here many months ago) and the most severe of the commercial renters were dealt with.

[salmoneous]

Note - I would strongly discourage anyone from doing what I am about to suggest... but I thought I'd throw it out as an option...

If you are really upset about this, want to DO SOMETHING and are frustrated by Disney and other website's indifference, you could always see if

Earl K Wood
Orange County Tax Collector
P.O. Box 2551
Orlando, Florida 32802
EKWood@octaxcol.com

gives a damn. I've got a gut feeling none of those folks have paid the tourist development tax on those rentals.

[Bopsmom]

...Here's a prime example from what looks like it could be a DIS member 5 all running in peak times.http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Beach-Club-Timeshare-Rental-Studio-12-23-12-28_W0QQitemZ130160676675QQihZ003QQcategoryZ3257QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This sort of thing is right up there with the slimy ticket scalpers.:headache:

[I'mNoPrince]

This sort of thing is right up there with the slimy ticket scalpers.:headache:


Well I read the other day they may be going after them as well as Ticketmaster for the Hanna Montana mess and brokers selling seat numbers before they even went on sale.We'll see where the dust settles on that one as well.

[dwelty]

I think it is a good sign that this person is selling a contract. Maybe the new transfer restrictions are affecting them.

Just wait until we have an economic downturn and travel to WDW slows dramatically. Disney will do what it has always done in the past. It will drop their room reservation prices to rock bottom to keep the resort rooms filled. These guys will be paying maintenance fees on thousands of points that they cannot rent!

[sjdisneywedding]

What made me the maddest is that I flagged one of these posts and sent my concerns to the moderator -- who promptly e-mailed me back saying it's not their problem -- it's DVC's responsibility to catch these people.



great attitude by that moderator and website :confused3

IMHO there is absolutley no excuse for that, they are offering something to the public involving dvc and are not doing their part to see the rules of DVC are followed. To me, they are just as responsible

any hints as to what board that might be, so I can be sure never to use it or to recommend it to anyone else

[dianeschlicht]

That linked website to Ebay is interesting. There are several things that could be a problem there, including the use of copyrighted photos.

[mikron]

I agree but deep down wonder if they really see this as a way to get potential buyers in a room to view and pitch to. No different them them upgrading from a Value to a Studio to get them on the DVC resorts.

Here's a prime example from what looks like it could be a DIS member 5 all running in peak times.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Beach-Club-Timeshare-Rental-Studio-12-23-12-28_W0QQitemZ130160676675QQihZ003QQcategoryZ3257QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

You have to admit that is one nice site they set up.

[3DisneyKids]

To add insult to injury, this person is using protected photos. I have seen Disney pull these types of listings off in a heartbeat once they are aware of the copy infringement. Some folks even lost their PhotoBucket accounts b/c Disney closed them for having proprietary photos on there.

When I see these listing on eBay, I always report them (there is a link which makes it easy to do) and say that the seller is using proprietary photos without permission. I don't know if it does any good or not, but :confused3 I would love to put these folks out of business.

And let me just clarify--I have said this many times--I have no problem with the owner that needs to rent his/her points out once in a while...can't go to Disney this year, doing a different type of vacation, health issues, whatever...there will be a time when many of us may find that we need to rent out our points once in a while. But when people pre-book peak weeks just to make money really burns me. This is why MANY owners find that they cannot get their preferred travel dates.

C'mon DVC...clarify the language in the contract once and for all...in one place it says we can rent, in another it says that we cannot make a profit...make it clear.

[dvc_john]

Here's a prime example from what looks like it could be a DIS member 5 all running in peak times.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Beach-Club-Timeshare-Rental-Studio-12-23-12-28_W0QQitemZ130160676675QQihZ003QQcategoryZ3257QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That works out to $22.71 per point for starting bid price, and $24.67 per point for 'buy-it-now' price.

[I'mNoPrince]

I just pulled that one because it had a few listed at the same time. looking at the feed back it seems it's been since he started the E-Bay account in 05 and does this each ear several Thank you's for a wonderful Vacation but who really knows.

I also have no problem on someone renting to family or friends getting a reservation for dates someone requested. But these are the ones that burn on me a bit . Yes I know I have the same chance to get in doing Day By Day at the 11 month mark ( I have always had no problem with my dates I needed).

My concern is as DVC grows more and more will be taking advantage of commercial renting and it will be a problem. With DD is HS now we do have to look at Peak travel times over the next few years so this could very well be an issue with us as well.

We will see what happens but I doubt anything will come of it for the same reason it's becoming a problem . Just to much to check on for MS to even handle on whats going on.

[snowbunny]

My concern is as DVC grows more and more will be taking advantage of commercial renting and it will be a problem. With DD is HS now we do have to look at Peak travel times over the next few years so this could very well be an issue with us as well.

Not to defend commercial renters (and I'm not one, I don't have the points), but you have just as much chance to book a room at the 11-month window as the commercial renter.
If both of you are planning in advance (obviously the commercial renter is), it's whoever gets on the horn to MS first. It's the same number of total resort points no matter who owns them and how many peak-time reservations they make. Peak time is peak time resort-wide.

[sjdisneywedding]

Not to defend commercial renters (and I'm not one, I don't have the points), but you have just as much chance to book a room at the 11-month window as the commercial renter.
If both of you are planning in advance (obviously the commercial renter is), it's whoever gets on the horn to MS first. It's the same number of total resort points no matter who owns them and how many peak-time reservations they make. Peak time is peak time resort-wide.

you would think, but who knows HOW they are calling in. Do they have multiple people on one contract all calling in at once? Maybe 6 or more people all calling at the same time all booking under that membership for the same peak weeks

that doesnt seem to be as fair to me. technically htey are entitled to as many rooms/weeks as they have points, but they have the odds at getting through better/earlier and we have all heard stories of rooms being there one minute and gone the next as MS tried to finalize details. So its different than 1 person calling and trying to get 5 or 6 rooms I would think anyway

Im sure hard core commercial renters have a few other tricks up there sleave too.

[Deb & Bill]

Not to defend commercial renters (and I'm not one, I don't have the points), but you have just as much chance to book a room at the 11-month window as the commercial renter.
If both of you are planning in advance (obviously the commercial renter is), it's whoever gets on the horn to MS first. It's the same number of total resort points no matter who owns them and how many peak-time reservations they make. Peak time is peak time resort-wide.

Not if they are making a business out of it. They may have multiple people making the phone calls for them to get all the prime reservations. Who knows, they might even have an insider working at MS making the reservations for a cut. Now that would be despicable.

[Deb & Bill]

I agree but deep down wonder if they really see this as a way to get potential buyers in a room to view and pitch to. No different them them upgrading from a Value to a Studio to get them on the DVC resorts.

Here's a prime example from what looks like it could be a DIS member 5 all running in peak times.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Beach-Club-Timeshare-Rental-Studio-12-23-12-28_W0QQitemZ130160676675QQihZ003QQcategoryZ3257QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Couldn't you see someone getting real mad when they checked into their BCV studio and there wasn't a clown looking back at them? All his/her photos are for BWV, including the floor plan and room photos.

[I'mNoPrince]

Couldn't you see someone getting real mad when they checked into their BCV studio and there wasn't a clown looking back at them? All his/her photos are for BWV, including the floor plan and room photos.

I know just too funny. But like others have said all Sun -Fri stays prime weeks so not spending a lot of points but charging maximum amounts and getting it .

[nono]

Commercial renters usually charge far more than the average price for points. For example during 2006 rental prices generally run about $10-$11/point. Commercial renters usually charge $12/point or more.


I don't get this point. :confused: You state that there's alternatives in the 10-11 dollar range. Renters can choose among the offerings. Are you disgusted about taking availability from other owners or about commercial renters not dumping their points on the open market and forcing prices down for all renters?

[Plutofan]

Note - I would strongly discourage anyone from doing what I am about to suggest... but I thought I'd throw it out as an option...

If you are really upset about this, want to DO SOMETHING and are frustrated by Disney and other website's indifference, you could always see if

Earl K Wood
Orange County Tax Collector
P.O. Box 2551
Orlando, Florida 32802
EKWood@octaxcol.com

gives a damn. I've got a gut feeling none of those folks have paid the tourist development tax on those rentals.

Lets remember that anyone who is not registered with Florida and Orange County and does not pay or collect the tax is also in violation of the state and county rules not just the "comercial renters".

[DisDaydreamer]

This is a DVC problem that will have to be solved by DVC. Unfortunately, member dissatisfaction has very little to do with whatever course of action DVC may choose to pursue. I can empathize, but as I said, it's a problem that will require action on the part of DVC in order to rectify.

DVC has been a bit more stringent regarding numerous rentals recently, but outside of prohibiting any rental of points at all, there is a limit to what they can do to restrict the use of a member's points.

Agreed, DVC is the one to take any action... and they are. The one time transfer certainly has curtailed this type of transaction. Though, I wish they would allow reciprocal transactions between members (trading). Also, they have been much more diligent in shutting down the commercial sellers. I sense they are just watching what the results of their actions are, and will make changes in the future... Like reciprocal transactions between members! Just let us trade...

[Deb & Bill]

Agreed, DVC is the one to take any action... and they are. The one time transfer certainly has curtailed this type of transaction. Though, I wish they would allow reciprocal transactions between members (trading). Also, they have been much more diligent in shutting down the commercial sellers. I sense they are just watching what the results of their actions are, and will make changes in the future... Like reciprocal transactions between members! Just let us trade...

Since we became members in 1997, there was only one transfer per year per membership. So this isn't a new thing. Just enforced. Amazing really, imagine Disney enforcing one of their own rules. ;)

[DisDaydreamer]

:goodvibes Wow, we've been members since 1998 and I didn't ever know that was the rule.... I guess enforcement is the action taken. I'm always learning..

[pyrxtc]

I agree but deep down wonder if they really see this as a way to get potential buyers in a room to view and pitch to. No different them them upgrading from a Value to a Studio to get them on the DVC resorts.

Here's a prime example from what looks like it could be a DIS member 5 all running in peak times.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Beach-Club-Timeshare-Rental-Studio-12-23-12-28_W0QQitemZ130160676675QQihZ003QQcategoryZ3257QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This link is kind of funny since it is advertising the Beach club but puts the Boardwalk amenities at the bottom along with the "free valet parking at Boardwalk" and lots of picture of Boardwalk!!

Think we should hint to the seller?? NOT!!! Let them figure out why it's not selling! I'm sure they'll continue to relist it until they have to cancel the ressie or go themselves.

Plus, I thought 5 were not allowed in a studio at BCV, only BWV's with a daybed?


Edited to say, they are really not smart since not only are they advertising weeks to rent on Ebay, they are advertising their contracts (or some contracts) for sale there as well and no matter what the vacation is for, they have pictures of BWV's at the end of all of them!

[Deb & Bill]

If you read all the way through the ad, it says the studio will sleep four adults and one child under the age of three.

[Caskbill]

The ad has a big section on member discounts. Renters are NOT eligible nor entitled to member discounts. So that part of the ad is an outright lie.

This includes these items shown in the ad:

Pool Hopping
Discounts at the WDW water parks.
Discount at DisneyQuest
Discounts at Pleasure Island
Free Valet Parking.

These are member perks and require showing the blue membership card. They are not included even to legitimate 'guests' of the member unless the member is also along, much less to renters traveling by themselves.

Finally the ad compares buying the same room thru CRO, but fails to mention that with CRO the cancellation policy is much more liberal, and they get daily mousekeeping. A rental does not include daily mousekeeping, and only a trash/towel service once during the week. No where in the ad is this explained.

[GusMan]

The ad has a big section on member discounts. Renters are NOT eligible nor entitled to member discounts.
...
These are member perks and require showing the blue membership card. They are not included even to legitimate 'guests' of the member unless the member is also along, much less to renters traveling by themselves.
For what its worth... when I rented points for a small trip, my room key did have "DVC MEMBER" on it and as a result I did get several discounts without asking or being asked for a member card. Granted, I realise that may be a "your mileage may vary" kind of thing, but your comments are very valid. If the renters dont get everything they thought they were buying into, there could be some problems.

On the topic of rentals, if it wasn't for someone around these boards offering rentals, I may not have ever experienced the conveniences of a 2BR villa and may not have later become a member. In other words - honest DVC'ers who rent out points for a reasonable cost may actually help DVC by giving people a wonderful DVC experience, which may eventually result in a new member. Thats the ultimate word-of-mouth marketing. The problem is that you have these people on eBay and the like doing what they are doing for obvious profit. Maybe DVC should start there - no rentals via auction sites, etc.

The bigger problem is that unless DVC "detectives" post as interested buyers, Im wondering how they would get the information needed to say that a reservation is a rental that goes beyond reasonable and the membership info from the violator. It would be a real challenge and a lot of overhead.

Just a thought for conversation sake....

[mamaprincess]

This is why we cant get the accomodations we want during the dates we want. Disney has to find a way to stop this.:mad:

[Deb & Bill]

DVC knows if the member is staying on the reservation or not. That's why they were looking at the 20 per year number.

[sjdisneywedding]

DVC knows if the member is staying on the reservation or not. That's why they were looking at the 20 per year number.

thats probably the only way to truly tell, but commerical renters are surely more adept than that.

one family or small group could get several contracts all in different names thereby having the ability to actually make several hundred reservations per year

Im sure if there is a way for them to beat they will

can one buy dvc under a company name or does it have to be under an individual name?

[DVC Mike]

Commercial renters are out there; that is the sad fact. I don't like it at all, but there's nothing I can do about it. Only DVC can solve the problem. I just wish they would. No one can disagree that the activities of the commercial renters does negatively impact other DVC members.

[GusMan]

can one buy dvc under a company name or does it have to be under an individual name?
Good question... One might assume that since it is supposed to be for individual use only, corporate ownership is not allowed.

Then again, a sole proprietorship is still a valid business. And if that business uses DVC for the purpose of providing their inventory, then that is a blatant misuse of the membership.

[keys2kingdom]

Commercial renters are out there; that is the sad fact. I don't like it at all, but there's nothing I can do about it.


Sad but true. I try not to think about it, it lessens my enjoyment of my membership, and I can't have anything doing that. Ignorance is bliss and I try to maintain ignorance at all times (bliss too). Ever since the Mush scandal I've decided there are certain things I'm just better off not knowing.

[akk]

I am not a commercial seller of DVC vacations, but my kids are now older and in a "shoulder period" of Disney use and I have way many more points than I need. (I got caught up in the buy more bug). Is this thread saying that the only correct way to get rid of these extra points is to sell them on Disboards or sellmy points all together? I have sold weeks on eBay and I think that is my right. I have also given and sold weeks to colleagues, friends and family. I just have too many points right now but when my kids have their own kids, I probably won't have enough. I agree that commercial entities should not do this, but I don't see that there is anything wrong with selling weeks from members who just have too many points. Everytime a new property opens the sales rep talks you into buying a few more points and then before you know it, you have way too many. If they stop members from selling their weeks then they have to stop trying to sell more points. I am sure that I will get a phone call once the California and Hawaii properties go for sale. I have already been contacted many times about AKL. I am not defending the commercial entities but just presenting a different point of view.

[themilesfamily]

I am not a commercial seller of DVC vacations, but my kids are now older and in a "shoulder period" of Disney use and I have way many more points than I need.

I don't think anyone would say what you're doing is wrong. I think that Disney provides ample leeway for personal use.

Some may say that there is a fine line between personal use and commercial renting -- I disagree. I doubt that there are just a few transactions difference between those are getting rid of some extra points and those who have turned selling access to DVC properties into their own personal business. Commercial renters who are advertising "hundreds of satisfied customers" aren't just unloading some extra points.

Whoever brought up the Hannah Montana example made an excellent analogy. Just recently these tickets went on sale and ticket scalpers -- -- using software specifically designed for this purpose -- bought up thousands of tickets. They are reselling them for up to $3000. How does the average concertgoer have a chance against this kind of operation? I'm sure that ticket scalping started out as small potatoes, way back when -- and it's turned into a huge problem.

[I'mNoPrince]

I just think if your using E-bay or other ways to sell then your selling for a profit and thats against the nature of the rule even though it's not really spelled out . Are you a commercial renter if your using commerse to make that sale, who really knows .Right now there is a magic 20 ressie number within a use year.

Are you booking prime weeks just so you can sell them .or are you talking to a family member or friend thats says hey how much for you to get me this week or this many days.

And your correct someone unloading some points is one thing to be doing year after year the same weeks at maximum profit is crossing the line in my opinion only and we all know that doesn't mean anything but you did ask.

[themilesfamily]

Here's a clip from a news article on the Hannah Montana ticket situation:

"Part of the reason for the shortage of tickets is that sophisticated scalpers now use automated computer programs that can quickly snap up tickets online or flood ticket phone lines with numerous calls, blocking out potential fans....The situation was so bad in Missouri that Attorney General Jay Nixon announced on Thursday that he was filing lawsuits against three ticket brokers for scalping tickets above face value, a violation of city ordinances and state consumer-protection laws." Gil Kaufman -- MTV News

[kimberh]

Commercial renters usually charge far more than the average price for points. For example during 2006 rental prices generally run about $10-$11/point. Commercial renters usually charge $12/point or more.

How did you come up with this price break down for Commercial Renting? :confused3 We buy our contracts at different prices, if purchased in different years. I have more money in my 2006 contracts than someone that purchased in 1995. If you wait 3 years to purchase, your contracts will be more than mine, with the tract record DVC has set.

[I'mNoPrince]

How did you come up with this price break down for Commercial Renting? :confused3 We buy our contracts at different prices, if purchased in different years. I have more money in my 2006 contracts than someone that purchased in 1995. If you wait 3 years to purchase, your contracts will be more than mine, with the tract record DVC has set.

ITA if you want to charge your family $2 or $200 per point then thats fine. I don't think it's the amount your getting it's the how your going about it that matters.

You could even argue the point that you paid $110 per point + maint.fees and only kept it that one year.

Here on the DIS and a few other places is where they keep that $10-$12 per point value but it no way reflexs the true value. I'm glad because next year I will be points poor and out of Borrowing so I will need to pick up a transfer . hopefully I can help someone like AKK out by taking some of their points off their hands. I will even be more happy if I can get them at the $10-$12 points range.

I think that is the Spirit of the rules set by Disney on dumping your points. Or like I stated before you know someone that needs to go and your can get them a better deal then CRO could all while introducing them to DVC to help it grow.

[Deb & Bill]

I just think if your using E-bay or other ways to sell then your selling for a profit and thats against the nature of the rule even though it's not really spelled out . Are you a commercial renter if your using commerse to make that sale, who really knows .Right now there is a magic 20 ressie number within a use year.

Are you booking prime weeks just so you can sell them .or are you talking to a family member or friend thats says hey how much for you to get me this week or this many days.

And your correct someone unloading some points is one thing to be doing year after year the same weeks at maximum profit is crossing the line in my opinion only and we all know that doesn't mean anything but you did ask.

I'm with you on this one, Terry. Offering your points to a friend, relative or co-worker is one thing. Posting prime weeks on any website is another.

[Bopsmom]

I'm with you on this one, Terry. Offering your points to a friend, relative or co-worker is one thing. Posting prime weeks on any website is another.

I was the one posting about slimey ticket scalpers. Another poster replied regarding Hannah Montanna. BTW, we got blown off the website after waiting "in line" like thousands of others. It stinks, but I refuse to pay a scalper. Our "scalper" even made the news about how proud he was to have paid 20+ street people to wait in line and had others on the computer-like he was doing mankind a favor.:headache:

I consider it "scalping" when someone consistently makes reservations at prime spots, at prime times that most likely were booked at 11 months out, just to sell on ebay or other sites . Not just having some extra points to "share" on an odd year. This member is scalping plain and simple. There are years of feedback saying what wonderful trips people had and advertisment of other "prime" weeks for sale. It sounds like a business to me. (looks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....)
Why can't DVC do something about this? It is plainly against the contract. Wouldn't DVC do something about breaking the contract other ways?

I guess I am upset because I was so happy to have sent in my closing papers and check last Saturday.(there should be happy dance smiley here) Now I guess I will have to deal with/compete with "ressie scalpers" if I want to spend Christmas week at BWV(our home resort) during Christmas.
It kinda' takes the shine off DVC. :sad1: :sad1:
Maybe we should have bought off ebay instead.:sad2:

[themilesfamily]

I guess I am upset because I was so happy to have sent in my closing paper and check last Saturday.(there should be happy dance smiley here)

Bopsmom -- CONGRATS on your DVC investment!! I think that's great and I'll do the happy dance for you... :dance3: :) Despite this commercial renting issue, our family still plans to buy into DVC, as well. I do have faith in Disney that they will stay on top of this.

I'm sure you and your family will have so many great vacations together!!!! Enjoy. :)

[Bopsmom]

Bopsmom -- CONGRATS on your DVC investment!! I think that's great and I'll do the happy dance for you... :dance3: :) Despite this commercial renting issue, our family still plans to buy into DVC, as well. I do have faith in Disney that they will stay on top of this.

I'm sure you and your family will have so many great vacations together!!!! Enjoy. :)

Thank you so much.MilesFamily:goodvibes I hope you're right.
One thing you do get when you buy DVC-outright.
party: party: A bunch of really nice "neighbors!". party: party:
Priceless!
I hope ya'll get your place real soon. Where are you buying?

[kimberh]

Commercial renters usually charge far more than the average price for points. For example during 2006 rental prices generally run about $10-$11/point. Commercial renters usually charge $12/point or more.

To OP, I asked this yesterday, but how did you come to this determination of price for Commercial Renting? Do you work for Disney and they have now come to a price for Commercial Renting?


I don't get this point. :confused: You state that there's alternatives in the 10-11 dollar range. Renters can choose among the offerings. Are you disgusted about taking availability from other owners or about commercial renters not dumping their points on the open market and forcing prices down for all renters?

Asked and Ignored...

How did you come up with this price break down for Commercial Renting? :confused3 We buy our contracts at different prices, if purchased in different years. I have more money in my 2006 contracts than someone that purchased in 1995. If you wait 3 years to purchase, your contracts will be more than mine, with the tract record DVC has set.

Are you looking for a cheap rental and upset that you aren't finding one? If you are so upset over renting, then buy and don't be part of the ones that rent. :confused3

[Deb & Bill]

...Are you looking for a cheap rental and upset that you aren't finding one? If you are so upset over renting, then buy and don't be part of the ones that rent. :confused3
I think you missed the fact that the OP is researching DVC to become a member in the near future. Maybe she saw one of your rentals available on Redweek or something? :confused3

[kimberh]

Yesterday I was on another board that has a rent/trade section on their forums. That board was FILLED with posters who appeared to me to be selling DVC points for commercial purposes (offering thousands of points for sale, 11-month bookings at five or more resorts, bragging about how many satisfied customers they've had over the years.) This is in total violation of DVC rules.

What bothered me even more was that there were NUMEROUS confirmed reservations that were being resold at exorbitant prices for Christmas and New Year's -


p.s. I'm not a DVC member yet, but we are talking about buying in the next few years, so I've been researching.
:)

If you wait 3 years to purchase, your contracts will be more than mine, with the tract record DVC has set.

I think you missed the fact that the OP is researching DVC to become a member in the near future. Maybe she saw one of your rentals available on Redweek or something? :confused3

No, I didn't miss anything, I read every word! Sounds like a disguntled renter to me. She didn't say a word about Redweek, mentioned other boards. Even you can't deny that the rental rate has went up this year. I would really like to know where she came up with her price break down for Commercial Renting... with her remarks, I really don't think that is to much to ask. When does a disgruntled renter get to come on the dis and gripe about the prices people charge for their villas. Now, the rest is up for discussion. If the price is cheaper than Disney, they are still saving money. If she wants to pay the price for a Moderate or Value, then she needs to stay in a Mod or Value.

Deb, I don't have anything on Redweek, check again.

[DVC4All]

Here's a prime example from what looks like it could be a DIS member 5 all running in peak times.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Beach-Club-Timeshare-Rental-Studio-12-23-12-28_W0QQitemZ130160676675QQihZ003QQcategoryZ3257QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Only 3 are for prime time.

It concerns me for two reasons: 1) these commercial renters are knowingly disobeying their contract with Disney and 2) putting their rentees in jeapordy of losing their reservations.

So you are concerned with people who disobey their contract with Disney
and
You are concerned with their renters being put in jeapordy

Sounds like a a crusade!

I came across this info:...Disney Vacation Club prohibits the rental of points for commercial purposes. When they discover reservations made by commercial renters, they cancel them without notice.

Do you know of any instances of Disney cancelling reservations?
Where do you get your information?


You can usually identify commercial renters as they use sites such as E-Bay with fancy text and photos..

Is this a new way to identify commercial renters?
Uh oh, they are on eBay, they must be commercial renters!

There is another one, see the fancy text!

Commercial renters usually charge far more than the average price for points. For example during 2006 rental prices generally run about $10-$11/point. Commercial renters usually charge $12/point or more.

Look at this guy, he's charging $12 per point!
Yea, he's definately a commercial renter!
Last week he was charging $11, but clearly he's crossed a line!

The line appears to be what you feel points should be rented for.

C'mon DVC...clarify the language in the contract once and for all...in one place it says we can rent, in another it says that we cannot make a profit...make it clear.

I believe it does not say anywhere that we cannot make a profit and I challenge you to produce that. There is a difference between making a profit and commercail renting. DVC has been very careful not to define commercial renting and I beileve has made the "Bright Line Test" to identify possible commercial renters.

That works out to $22.71 per point for starting bid price, and $24.67 per point for 'buy-it-now' price.

Which one of the four listings are you referring to?
Did you calculate the per point price for all four?
If you did, is this the average or the highest?
Is it important to you how much per point someone charges?
Is that really a big issue for you?

I just pulled that one because it had a few listed at the same time. looking at the feed back it seems it's been since he started the E-Bay account in 05 and does this each ear several Thank you's for a wonderful Vacation but who really knows.

I see a total of 31 feedback of which 20 are as a seller of which I count 12-14 for rooms; all since Jan '05. According to the "Bright Line Test" a commercial renter might be someone who rents to 20 people in a 12 month period. Hey John, you like to do math. Does 14 reservations over a period of 2 years and 10 months come out to be 20 or more reservations in a 12 month period? I'm no mathematician, but I don't think it does.

Not if they are making a business out of it. They may have multiple people making the phone calls for them to get all the prime reservations. Who knows, they might even have an insider working at MS making the reservations for a cut. Now that would be despicable.

Alas, the conspiracy theory!
So you think there may be a mole in Member Services...Do you think DVC is aware of this possibility and that at this very moment we are under surveillance by counter-intelligent people?

I don't get this point. :confused: You state that there's alternatives in the 10-11 dollar range. Renters can choose among the offerings. Are you disgusted about taking availability from other owners or about commercial renters not dumping their points on the open market and forcing prices down for all renters?

It seems to be so!

In other words - honest DVC'ers who rent out points for a reasonable cost may actually help DVC by giving people a wonderful DVC experience, which may eventually result in a new member. Thats the ultimate word-of-mouth marketing.

So only honest DVCers who rent out points for a reasonable cost?
Not honest DVCers who rent for a higher than reasonable cost?
Not honest DVCers who rent for a lower than reasonable cost?
Not dis-honest DVCers that rent for a reasonable cost?
Not dis-honest DVCers who rent for a higher than a reasonable cost?
Not dis-honest DVCers who rent for lower than a reasonavble cost?


The problem is that you have these people on eBay and the like doing what they are doing for obvious profit. Maybe DVC should start there - no rentals via auction sites, etc.

Hey, how about no advertising at all!
Even better, let's identify these dis-honest DVCers who rent at unreasonable prices, and make them wear a "Bad Mickey" on their chest so we all know who they are.

This is why we cant get the accomodations we want during the dates we want. Disney has to find a way to stop this.:mad:

Mama, you can't get the accomodations you want for one of two reasons.
Either you don't plan far enough ahead or you are trying to book at the 7 month window where you don't own.

I just think if your using E-bay or other ways to sell then your selling for a profit and thats against the nature of the rule even though it's not really spelled out.

So using "eBay" OR "other ways" to sell means you are selling for a profit? I don't remember learning this in Economics or Marketing. Please tell me where I can find this so I can forward this information to our college professors; no wonder we're falling behind in education in this country!

Regarding the "nature" of the rule, please explain how even though it's not really spelled out, you are able to tell the "nature" of the rule.
Also, what does "nature of the rule" mean?
And, what rule are you talking about?

I'm with you on this one, Terry. Offering your points to a friend, relative or co-worker is one thing. Posting prime weeks on any website is another.

If someone owns, say, 2000 points, don't they have a right to use 180 of those points for prime weeks and then advertise them to rent them?
Wouldn't they have at least as much right as someone who owns 180 points and uses all their points for a prime week every year?

[akk]

There are several issues which are being discussed here which I don't understand.
1. First, I have not had a problem booking a holiday period in an 11 month window. The only time I have had a problem is when trying to book a Villa which is in very limited supply. This can usually be done on a daily booking, 11 months in advance. 2 BR are almost never a problem. Studios are an occasional problem
2. Booking at SSR is almost never a problem, even up to 7 months in advance. This tells me something about SSR. Disney expanded and overbuilt its original plans for SSR. This has diluted the value of SSR and many SSR members try to book at other more desireable resorts and are unable to because a large percentage of them are trying to. This brings up two issues. One is that Disney deceived us and way overbuilt SSR. The original plans looked like all of SSR was water front and easy walking to Downtown Disney. They have expanded so much that it takes a marathoner to walk to downtown Disney and many units have a great view of the road. The second is SSR has no advantages and is less desireable than other resorts. This affects not only SSR members, but other resort members because SSR members are always trying to book at another resort. This means that Disney must do something to make SSR more desireable, such as maybe put a mini water park at SSR which only those staying at SSR can use, like the one at the Nikelodeon Hotel, or Reunion. This will significantly increase the use of SSR and decrease the outflow of points from SSR to other resorts.
3. What do people consider making a profit commercially? At over $100 per point and $5 per point in maintenance fees per year, how much are you really making in selling your points? Is 10% return on investment price gouging? I don't think so. Then 10% of $105/pt is $10.50 per point plus $5 per point is $15.50 per point. So not counting the costs of advertising, the headaches of renting, the numerous questions, the headaches from buyers, I don't think tha a commercial renter would think it a commercial enterprise to rent for $15.50 per point or probably $18 per point because that is only 10% return on investment with alot of work. Unless you are dealing with thousands and thousands of points, this is not a money making proposition. The DOW is up 13.3% year to date.
4. I think that $9-$10 per point is way too low and decreases the value of purchasing at DVC. DVC has the right of first refusal for sales of DVC points and at the $9-10 per point price should buy these points up because it makes purchasing them less desireable. Why should I buy points at $105 per point or higher, pay $5 per point per year maintenance or higher when I can come on Disboards and buy them for $9 per point?

The point of all this is that I got caught in the "buy more" bug and have way too many points for now as my children do not want to go to Disney 3x per year anymore and have expanded their tastes in vacations (and no longer eat just chicken fingers and french fries) and the the trading of Disney and the other vacations are either not as easy as DVC claims or not a good value. Until I have grandchildren, I will have more points than I need. I don't want to sell the points, but wish that their was an easier, and somewhat profitable (but obviously not price gouging and commercializing) way to get rid of my extra points for now. I think $9-$10 per point is selling short.

[sjdisneywedding]

Mama, you can't get the accomodations you want for one of two reasons.
Either you don't plan far enough ahead or you are trying to book at the 7 month window where you don't own.



sorry but that just a completely uninformed statement
there have plenty of examples over the past, too numerous to even list, where members have called at the earliest possible time only to be without a ressie.

you are completely 100% underestimating commerical renters
either you are one or you just dont truly understand the impact

[sjdisneywedding]

So using "eBay" OR "other ways" to sell means you are selling for a profit? I don't remember learning this in Economics or Marketing. Please tell me where I can find this so I can forward this information to our college professors; no wonder we're falling behind in education in this country!


lets get real here, EBAY is THE leading vehicle to rent points for a profit. Most people are not selling their points on ebay to LOSE money. doesnt mean everyone is or everyone will make a profit, but thats the clear intent

[sjdisneywedding]

If someone owns, say, 2000 points, don't they have a right to use 180 of those points for prime weeks and then advertise them to rent them?
Wouldn't they have at least as much right as someone who owns 180 points and uses all their points for a prime week every year?

of course they do! thats not commercial renting, the issue is when they use the majority of those 2000 points to rent out several weeks for profit.

[sjdisneywedding]

Only 3 are for prime time.

UMMM I would ask what the heck are you looking?? they all are either during Thanksgiving week. Christmas week, or new years week. with only one not directly inculding the holiday day itself



So you are concerned with people who disobey their contract with Disney
and
You are concerned with their renters being put in jeapordy

Sounds like a a crusade!


?

doesnt sound like a crusade at all, sounds like someone I want to own my piece of the pie with.

What fellow owner would not want to be concerned with people disobeying their contract.

[sjdisneywedding]

I see a total of 31 feedback of which 20 are as a seller of which I count 12-14 for rooms; all since Jan '05. According to the "Bright Line Test" a commercial renter might be someone who rents to 20 people in a 12 month period. Hey John, you like to do math. Does 14 reservations over a period of 2 years and 10 months come out to be 20 or more reservations in a 12 month period? I'm no mathematician, but I don't think it does.
?

lol this is too much. you either must have been really tired or really fired up that someone is trying to bring down commercail renting.

SOOOO they had 14 ressies over a 2 year period on EBAY. So I guess there is no other means whatsoever to rent dvc points?

So I guess because I have never rented on EBAY that I have never rented period?

14 ressies on EBAY doesnt mean 14 ressies.

Also, what about their own persoanl ressies with points that they must have used since they are not commerical renters. They must be going on their own vacations, right? I mean for 14 ressies they must have alot of points. I wonder why they would own that many points and not take their own vacation

the best part of the whole deal, it that this seller is currently selling 230 OKW points and 250 SSR points. Maybe all these posts on Ebay are legit because they just cant use the points anymore, or the commercial renting crackdown has him bailing out

[sjdisneywedding]

Actually you really want to know the best part?

when I contacted this seller about a simple question regarding some of the details listed in this auction, the only reply was to call him to directly discuss it.

I wonder why most questions I ask regarding Ebay listings are answered through email immedately and then most of the time posted within the auction itself for future bidders and this seller needs to dicsuss it privately over the phone

[sjdisneywedding]

3. What do people consider making a profit commercially? At over $100 per point and $5 per point in maintenance fees per year, how much are you really making in selling your points? Is 10% return on investment price gouging? I don't think so. Then 10% of $105/pt is $10.50 per point plus $5 per point is $15.50 per point. So not counting the costs of advertising, the headaches of renting, the numerous questions, the headaches from buyers, I don't think tha a commercial renter would think it a commercial enterprise to rent for $15.50 per point or probably $18 per point because that is only 10% return on investment with alot of work. Unless you are dealing with thousands and thousands of points, this is not a money making proposition. The DOW is up 13.3% year to date.
.

a profit is a profit, it doesnt make it more right or wrong that they are not making a large profit.

additionally, you gotta be kidding me if you think 10% is not a GREAT return for something as simple as renting your points. The scenario you describe above would have someone with a thousand points bringing in $10,000 a year with maintenance fees additionally covered.

[Plutofan]

a profit is a profit, it doesnt make it more right or wrong that they are not making a large profit.

additionally, you gotta be kidding me if you think 10% is not a GREAT return for something as simple as renting your points. The scenario you describe above would have someone with a thousand points bringing in $10,000 a year with maintenance fees additionally covered.

Actually the return is a lot less since rentals are subject to Florida and County use tax which is currently 12.5%. Now if you are not paying the tax and filing reports then that is another issue...

[sjdisneywedding]

Actually the return is a lot less since rentals are subject to Florida and County use tax which is currently 12.5%. Now if you are not paying the tax and filing reports then that is another issue...

lol, I hear ya, but something tells me some of the renters aint;)

[akk]

additionally, you gotta be kidding me if you think 10% is not a GREAT return for something as simple as renting your points. The scenario you describe above would have someone with a thousand points bringing in $10,000 a year with maintenance fees additionally covered.

A thousand points will cost you $105,000. If you think a $10,000 profit for trying to rent 1000 points is a great profit, then you must have some seriously bad investments. The DOW has averaged over 12% over the last 60 years including dividends and that takes NO WORK. So trying to rent 1000 points, which takes alot of work, and is a major headache, to make $10,000 on a $105,000 investment is a HORRIBLE investment. Renting your points is NOT a simple thing at all.

[Chuck S]

This thread is going off topic. We are NOT discussing whether renting points, commercial or otherwise, is a "good investment."

Please return it to the topic at hand, which by the OP is whether renting affects other DVC members and avalability, or it will be closed.

[themilesfamily]

To OP, I asked this yesterday, but how did you come to this determination of price for Commercial Renting? Do you work for Disney and they have now come to a price for Commercial Renting?

Are you looking for a cheap rental and upset that you aren't finding one? If you are so upset over renting, then buy and don't be part of the ones that rent. :confused3

That price range ($10-$11 for 2006) is not a number I came up with -- there is a webpage titled "Looking to Rent Points for your DVC Vacation: Here are some things you should know" that I came across while researching this whole issue. If the mod says it's okay, I will post the link.

Here is my story & how I got involved in the whole thing: Our family recently decided to purchase DVC. We are planning an October 2008 trip to Disney -- we were going to stay in a deluxe for the first time -- but then, the more we talked about it, decided it might be time to jump into DVC, as we are done having children and have some extra money to invest. We were planning to purchase points to stay in a DVC rental in October 2008, to try one out -- but I have to say, I am NOT a disgruntled renter or trying to get a cheap rental -- and I would happily pay $11/$12 per point to stay at DVC until we own. (The range at DISboards appears to be $9-$12 per point.) I am somewhat more leery about renting points, for fear of falling in with a commercial renter. Can you imagine showing up at Disney and finding out your ressies are canceled? That would be bad -- but even the ethics of renting from someone who is the equivalent of a ticket scalper bothers me.

I can't find any reason or excuse to legitimize what commercial renters are doing. If they want to make the timeshare industry their business, they are free to buy land and build a timeshare resort of their own -- not sell somebody else's for profit.

[themilesfamily]

I hope ya'll get your place real soon. Where are you buying?

Thanks, Bopsmom! :) As my previous post mentioned, it looks like October 2008 is when we will jump in. We haven't decided where yet, but I look forward to checking out the properties next fall!

I noticed that you own at Boardwalk -- great location!!! We love the Boardwalk -- my husband and I have had great times at the ESPN club -- he's a huge sports fan and would probably love the Boardwalk for that reason alone!

[kimberh]

That price range ($10-$11 for 2006) is not a number I came up with -- there is a webpage titled "Looking to Rent Points for your DVC Vacation: Here are some things you should know" that I came across while researching this whole issue. If the mod says it's okay, I will post the link.

Here is my story & how I got involved in the whole thing: Our family recently decided to purchase DVC. We are planning an October 2008 trip to Disney -- we were going to stay in a deluxe for the first time -- but then, the more we talked about it, decided it might be time to jump into DVC, as we are done having children and have some extra money to invest. We were planning to purchase points to stay in a DVC rental in October 2008, to try one out -- but I have to say, I am NOT a disgruntled renter or trying to get a cheap rental -- and I would happily pay $11/$12 per point to stay at DVC until we own. (The range at DISboards appears to be $9-$12 per point.) I am somewhat more leery about renting points, for fear of falling in with a commercial renter. Can you imagine showing up at Disney and finding out your ressies are canceled? That would be bad -- but even the ethics of renting from someone who is the equivalent of a ticket scalper bothers me.

I can't find any reason or excuse to legitimize what commercial renters are doing. If they want to make the timeshare industry their business, they are free to buy land and build a timeshare resort of their own -- not sell somebody else's for profit.

And I don't remember who made this argument....but the fact that YOUR personal success at reserving a unit during peak time hasn't been affected yet, doesn't make commercial renting okay or no big deal.

I rented before I bought, there is nothing wrong with this approach to trying DVC. For what it's worth, I paid more than $14.00 per point when I rented. I did not know any difference. I still saved a considerable amount over what Disney was charging, received a better room, and I was happy. We were so happy that I remembered about this board and relogged on and saw The Timeshare Store at the top. Called them and bought. I bought a contract with 3 years of surplus points, counting the current year. We had just returned from Disney, I sure wasn't turning around and going right back any time soon. I asked my broker," what was I to do with all the banked points?" The answer was to rent, a contract was even supplied to me, right off of the disboards. Being a Newbie and not knowing the feelings of renting that flowed like a Volocano off of the Dis toward renting, I was asking questions and flamed away!!! Still paying some sort of a price for it.

The point to all this, we can rent, we can charge what we want. Just because someone writes a book or webpage, that is their opinion. I am not a Commercial Renter. I don't have the 1000's of points. I don't buy points with the intent of renting them. The fact of the matter is, If you want a Boardwalk villa room with Boardwalk view, then you need to own there, If you want a Beach Club reservation in Oct or Easter, then you need to own there. If you want VWL in Dec, then you need to own there. If you want Concierge at AKV's, then you need to own there. Now, some where along the line there are extra points, what are DVC owners to do, let them expire to let others be happy on a Internet board?

We take our big family trip, I take my hubby only trips, we switch resorts around, We don't like staying in the same place over and over and over again. It's not us! I am a planner, I don't wait for the 7 month window and take my chances.

Thank you for answering my question. When you pay $86-$105 plus maintenance... depending on where you buy and the incentives being offered, you might see where the points are being rented for a cheap price.

[sjdisneywedding]

That price range ($10-$11 for 2006) is not a number I came up with -- there is a webpage titled "Looking to Rent Points for your DVC Vacation: Here are some things you should know" that I came across while researching this whole issue. If the mod says it's okay, I will post the link.

Here is my story & how I got involved in the whole thing: Our family recently decided to purchase DVC. We are planning an October 2008 trip to Disney -- we were going to stay in a deluxe for the first time -- but then, the more we talked about it, decided it might be time to jump into DVC, as we are done having children and have some extra money to invest. We were planning to purchase points to stay in a DVC rental in October 2008, to try one out -- but I have to say, I am NOT a disgruntled renter or trying to get a cheap rental -- and I would happily pay $11/$12 per point to stay at DVC until we own. (The range at DISboards appears to be $9-$12 per point.) I am somewhat more leery about renting points, for fear of falling in with a commercial renter. Can you imagine showing up at Disney and finding out your ressies are canceled? That would be bad -- but even the ethics of renting from someone who is the equivalent of a ticket scalper bothers me.

I can't find any reason or excuse to legitimize what commercial renters are doing. If they want to make the timeshare industry their business, they are free to buy land and build a timeshare resort of their own -- not sell somebody else's for profit.

I would not get to worried about renting for yourself, if you do your research beforehand. The disboards has quite a few rules in place for rentals on this site. Its not ever going to be 100% safe, someone could always be fraudelant, but overall there are many good rentals that stem from here

[themilesfamily]

I am not a Commercial Renter. I don't have the 1000's of points. I don't buy points with the intent of renting them.

Kimberh, if my original post made you feel personally targeted in any way, I do apologize!! I certainly didn't think you were a commercial renter or post this because of something of yours that I came across. What I saw that originally concerned me was on a whole different website.

As for the pricing of points, someone (it may have been you kimberh), mentioned that they didn't like the points going for as low as $9-$10 -- I wonder if people offering them at $9 are people with points that are JUST about to expire? Perhaps they have a short period of time to rent them and think they'll have better luck at $9 rather than $11 or $12. Better to get $9 than lose them. I could be totally wrong about that -- but it's something that crossed my mind.

SJDisneywedding, that was SO interesting to hear about the EBay seller who would only discuss details over the phone. That is EXACTLY the kind of shady business I want to avoid. What is so secretive that it can't be put in writing? Thanks for all of your comments on this thread -- I have really enjoyed reading them!

[kimberh]

Kimberh, if my original post made you feel personally targeted in any way, I do apologize!! I certainly didn't think you were a commercial renter or post this because of something of yours that I came across. What I saw that originally concerned me was on a whole different website.

As for the pricing of points, someone (it may have been you kimberh), mentioned that they didn't like the points going for as low as $9-$10 -- I wonder if people offering them at $9 are people with points that are JUST about to expire? Perhaps they have a short period of time to rent them and think they'll have better luck at $9 rather than $11 or $12. Better to get $9 than lose them. I could be totally wrong about that -- but it's something that crossed my mind.

SJDisneywedding, that was SO interesting to hear about the EBay seller who would only discuss details over the phone. That is EXACTLY the kind of shady business I want to avoid. What is so secretive that it can't be put in writing? Thanks for all of your comments on this thread -- I have really enjoyed reading them!

I can't speak for those charging $9.00 per point, I think it hurts all of us. They may have not banked their points or it may be banked points that are getting ready to expire, who knows. The problem with that is it makes people want most rentals at those prices. Once a DVC is bought at 2006-2007 prices and the maintenance fees go up every year, (Or they have since I have been in) there is a huge loss with that price.

There are people out there that will have DVC owners book the reservation, agree on the rate, then try to get them down to $8.00 per point. This happped to a friend of mine... Akv's no less. Points are brand new, no distress to them. Of course, the reservation was cancelled. I do hope you find what you are looking for! ;) Wishing you Good luck with your search.

[themilesfamily]

There are people out there that will have DVC owners book the reservation, agree on the rate, then try to get them down to $8.00 per point. This happped to a friend of mine... Akv's no less. Points are brand new, no distress to them. Of course, the reservation was cancelled.

NOT COOL! How do these people live with themselves?

I think that's a great example of bad behavior on the other side of the equation!

Thanks for the well-wishes -- we are so excited about becoming DVC'ers! :)

[Deb & Bill]

Miles Family - it says that you are "earning your ears". I'd like to think that you have already earned them and are well on the way to being a regular Dis'er. You've taken a thread that started out pretty good, got a little deep in the muck, and brought it right up to the top. You are my kind of people. :thumbsup2 Hope to be welcoming you home in the near future. :wave2:

[themilesfamily]

Miles Family - it says that you are "earning your ears". I'd like to think that you have already earned them and are well on the way to being a regular Dis'er. You've taken a thread that started out pretty good, got a little deep in the muck, and brought it right up to the top. You are my kind of people. :thumbsup2 Hope to be welcoming you home in the near future. :wave2:

Thanks, that is SO nice! I'll let you all know where we end up for a home resort, as soon as we buy in! :cool1:

[PoohsGang]

To OP, I asked this yesterday, but how did you come to this determination of price for Commercial Renting? Do you work for Disney and they have now come to a price for Commercial Renting?




Asked and Ignored...



Are you looking for a cheap rental and upset that you aren't finding one? If you are so upset over renting, then buy and don't be part of the ones that rent. :confused3

This from DVC member services direct today.
Kind of vague didnt really answer my question.

My question to DVC:Is commercial leaseing of DVC units like this one on EBAY allowed?

Disney Beach Club Timeshare Rental Studio 12/23-12/28
Sold Out Christmas Dates SAVE $$$ Also have 11/12-11/16 Item number:
130160676675

There answer:
Thank you for the information regarding the selling of vacation points.


In the Vacation Magic / July 2006 appeared the following:


Policies to protect personal use and enjoyment

In a continuing effort to maximize Members personal enjoyment of their
Membership, Disney Vacation Club would like to remind Members about
several related policies outlined in the Public Offering Statement and
other Member documents.

As a reminder, published policies limit the use of accommodations and
recreational facilities solely to the personal use and enjoyment of
Owners, Guests, exchangers and invitees and for recreational uses by
corporations and other entities owning Ownership Interests in a Unit.

To maximize the availability of reservations for these permitted
purposes, Disney Vacation Club closely monitors reservations and may
cancel reserved accommodations if a pattern of rental activity for
profit is discovered.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
---

Disney Vacation Club has always maintained that Club Members are
expressly prohibited from receiving compensation for the rental of
accommodations under their Membership or engaging in any Transfer
activity for profit. You may refer to your Public Offering Statement to review these policies or consult with Quality Assurance at (800)
782-6767 to review how the product was represented at the time of your
purchase.


Again thank you for the information and this will be forwarded to the
appropriate department. Your name will not be disclosed.

:confused3

:confused3

Seems like the same spin our politicians use, an answer with no direct answer.

Maybe someone else can figure out what they reponded to me with?????
:confused3

[DVC4All]

Sorry, I will resubmit

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

Sad but true. I try not to think about it, it lessens my enjoyment of my membership, and I can't have anything doing that. Ignorance is bliss and I try to maintain ignorance at all times (bliss too). Ever since the Mush scandal I've decided there are certain things I'm just better off not knowing.

Can somebody tell me what the Mush scandal is and what the "bright line" test is? This is the first time I've heard those terms :confused:

For us, when I can't book my points the way I'd like to anymore for my family vacations, then I'll sell the dvc membership. I'm emotionally attached to Disney, but I'm not emotionally attached to the dvc.

Well, maybe a little bit, but if it turns from a convenience into an inconvenience I would dump it.

[DVC4All]

sorry but that just a completely uninformed statement
there have plenty of examples over the past, too numerous to even list, where members have called at the earliest possible time only to be without a ressie.

you are completely 100% underestimating commerical renters
either you are one or you just dont truly understand the impact
I have never had a problem getting anything at the 11 month window.
Have You?
Has anyone here?
Can you give me any examples?

If I wanted a Grand Villa at the BW for Christmas week I'd call day by day exactly 11 months out at 9AM EST.




lets get real here, EBAY is THE leading vehicle to rent points for a profit. Most people are not selling their points on ebay to LOSE money. doesnt mean everyone is or everyone will make a profit, but thats the clear intent
I'll bet more points are rented on these boards than on eBay. As far as "for a profit" goes, I don't think the price is an issue; and neither does DVC by the way. Of course, I believe DVC understands that how much an individual rents their timeshare for has no bearing on whether or not a person is a commercial renter; indeed, when DVC sent out the letters to possible commercial renters not a word about price or price per point was in there.




of course they do! thats not commercial renting, the issue is when they use the majority of those 2000 points to rent out several weeks for profit. You keep mentioning profit. It is everyone's right in this country to make a profit if they want to; profit is really a non-issue. It is everyone's right in this country to advertise their timeshare where ever they want; eBay is really a non-issue. I understand it upsets people here to see prime weeks listed on eBay for a high price, and perhaps some of these people tried unsuccessfully to get these dates, but that does not make someone a commercial renter. Indeed, if you go on eBay, I'd say that almost every person on eBay renting DVC is not a commercial renter. DVC chased them away.

As for renting the majority of 2000 points, if an owner has 2000 and is in the same position as akk,
The point of all this is that I got caught in the "buy more" bug and have way too many points for now as my children do not want to go to Disney 3x per year anymore and have expanded their tastes in vacations (and no longer eat just chicken fingers and french fries) and the the trading of Disney and the other vacations are either not as easy as DVC claims or not a good value. Until I have grandchildren, I will have more points than I need. I don't want to sell the points, but wish that their was an easier, and somewhat profitable (but obviously not price gouging and commercializing) way to get rid of my extra points for now. I think $9-$10 per point is selling short.their only option to selling, giving away points, giving away vacations, and letting their points expire is renting them.
I don't have a problem with that and neither does DVC.

Do you?
If you do, why do you?




UMMM I would ask what the heck are you looking?? they all are either during Thanksgiving week. Christmas week, or new years week. with only one not directly inculding the holiday day itself
I am looking at what was 5 auctions:
1 was the sale of the contract and it has ended, leaving 4;
1, as you have said, does not include a holiday leaving 3;
3 are for prime weeks.




lol this is too much. you either must have been really tired or really fired up that someone is trying to bring down commercail renting.

Perhaps there is more than just the two reasons that you mention: I do not agree with some of the opinions here; I think this thread needed my voice; I am having fun!
I gave you 3 possible other reasons.

So maybe I wasn't really tired and I am not fired up at all.




the best part of the whole deal, it that this seller is currently selling 230 OKW points and 250 SSR points. Maybe all these posts on Ebay are legit because they just cant use the points anymore
So you agree that this person may not be a commercial renter, thank you for seeing this possibility.

Then is this person possibly being unfairly attacked,
with talk of reporting to DVC and the tax collector?

I believe we reap what we sow.
There is talk of reporting this person to DVC and the tax collector, actions that can hurt this person without knowing anything about their circumstances. Are they commercial renters? Did they lose their job? Are they terminally ill? Is a member of their family ill? If someone feels so strongly about this why not email the renter and talk to them before condemning and attacking them verbally and reporting them.

I wonder if they would let their spouses and children know they have reported this person and also let them read this; I doubt it.




Actually you really want to know the best part? when I contacted this seller about a simple question regarding some of the details listed in this auction, the only reply was to call him to directly discuss it.
So if you wanted answers why didn't you call him?

Does the fact that this seller preferred to talk on the phone rather than communicate through email make him a bad guy?
Is that really the "best part"?

[sjdisneywedding]

I have never had a problem getting anything at the 11 month window.
Have You?
Has anyone here?
Can you give me any examples?

If I wanted a Grand Villa at the BW for Christmas week I'd call day by day exactly 11 months out at 9AM EST.

Im not going to do the research for you, there have been plenty of examples and as far as calling day by day you still may nopt get it, theres been examples of that as well




I am looking at what was 5 auctions:
1 was the sale of the contract and it has ended, leaving 4;
1, as you have said, does not include a holiday leaving 3;
3 are for prime weeks.

just because it doesnt include the holiday day itself doesnt make it a non prime week/time

they were all prime weeks






So you agree that this person may not be a commercial renter, thank you for seeing this possibility.

Then is this person possibly being unfairly attacked,
with talk of reporting to DVC and the tax collector?

yes I agree, of course I agree with that
I am not attacking any single person, I am discussing commercial renting in general
however, actions speak louder than words


I believe we reap what we sow.
There is talk of reporting this person to DVC and the tax collector, actions that can hurt this person without knowing anything about their circumstances. Are they commercial renters? Did they lose their job? Are they terminally ill? Is a member of their family ill? If someone feels so strongly about this why not email the renter and talk to them before condemning and attacking them verbally and reporting them.

I wonder if they would let their spouses and children know they have reported this person and also let them read this; I doubt it.

I am not soley discussing this person or those 5 auctions, all those situations you describe are, of course, difficult situations, but you dont make rules and not follow through with them being upheld because of the those rare occurances.

bottom line is I am discussing commercial renting. its not allowed.





So if you wanted answers why didn't you call him?

Does the fact that this seller preferred to talk on the phone rather than communicate through email make him a bad guy?
Is that really the "best part"?


I did not call because I already had my answer in my opinion. I never done business with anyone on ebay asking for my phone number to discuss concerns/questions over the phone before a bid was even placed. That to me screams they are screening the people asking the questions that they find not to their liking

[DVC4All]

I did not call because I already had my answer in my opinion. I never done business with anyone on ebay asking for my phone number to discuss concerns/questions over the phone before a bid was even placed. That to me screams they are screening the people asking the questions that they find not to their liking

So you already had your answer.
To me that means you already made up your mind, is that right?

Well, I've bought and sold on eBay and I don't bid on anything of any value without talking to the seller first.
I figure if I can't talk to them before I pay them, I have less of a chance after I pay them.

Is it possible that the person types very slowly and finds it much easier to answer questions on the phone. What was it you asked? Did it require a lengthy answer? Maybe the person has one hand.

Why don't you make the call, I assume you have the phone number.
Wouldn't that be better than having your mind made up?

You may find out that this person is a commercial renter, or you may find out that he is not.

At least you won't have your mind made up without giving the person a chance.

[DVC4All]

Actually you really want to know the best part? when I contacted this seller about a simple question regarding some of the details listed in this auction, the only reply was to call him to directly discuss it.

yes I agree, of course I agree with that
I am not attacking any single person

I seems like you were, you even said you contacted this seller.

[DVC4All]

bottom line is I am discussing commercial renting. its not allowed.

I agree.

[DVC4All]

So you agree that this person may not be a commercial renter, thank you for seeing this possibility.

Then is this person possibly being unfairly attacked,
with talk of reporting to DVC and the tax collector?


yes I agree, of course I agree with that...

Please answer the question;
Is this person possibly being unfairly attacked,
with talk of reporting to DVC and the tax collector?

[sjdisneywedding]

So you already had your answer.
To me that means you already made up your mind, is that right?

Well, I've bought and sold on eBay and I don't bid on anything of any value without talking to the seller first.
I figure if I can't talk to them before I pay them, I have less of a chance after I pay them.

Is it possible that the person types very slowly and finds it much easier to answer questions on the phone. What was it you asked? Did it require a lengthy answer? Maybe the person has one hand.

Why don't you make the call, I assume you have the phone number.
Wouldn't that be better than having your mind made up?

You may find out that this person is a commercial renter, or you may find out that he is not.

At least you won't have your mind made up without giving the person a chance.


lol yeah myabe the have only one hand, maybe they 10 wives whats the difference

I had my answer once I received the email
lol

[sjdisneywedding]

I seems like you were, you even said you contacted this seller.

nope, I contacted for my own benefit, nothing more. I only brought it up once you started bringing up every speculation in the workd as to why they were not commercial renting

I dont care about this renter in particular or any other enter for that matter. I only care about commercial renting in gerenal

you they one with all these what ifs

[DVC4All]

This from DVC member services direct today.
Kind of vague didnt really answer my question.

My question to DVC:Is commercial leaseing of DVC units like this one on EBAY allowed?

Disney Beach Club Timeshare Rental Studio 12/23-12/28
Sold Out Christmas Dates SAVE $$$ Also have 11/12-11/16 Item number:
130160676675

There answer:
Thank you for the information regarding the selling of vacation points.


In the Vacation Magic / July 2006 appeared the following:


Policies to protect personal use and enjoyment

In a continuing effort to maximize Members personal enjoyment of their
Membership, Disney Vacation Club would like to remind Members about
several related policies outlined in the Public Offering Statement and
other Member documents.

As a reminder, published policies limit the use of accommodations and
recreational facilities solely to the personal use and enjoyment of
Owners, Guests, exchangers and invitees and for recreational uses by
corporations and other entities owning Ownership Interests in a Unit.

To maximize the availability of reservations for these permitted
purposes, Disney Vacation Club closely monitors reservations and may
cancel reserved accommodations if a pattern of rental activity for
profit is discovered.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
---

Disney Vacation Club has always maintained that Club Members are
expressly prohibited from receiving compensation for the rental of
accommodations under their Membership or engaging in any Transfer
activity for profit. You may refer to your Public Offering Statement to review these policies or consult with Quality Assurance at (800)
782-6767 to review how the product was represented at the time of your
purchase.


Again thank you for the information and this will be forwarded to the
appropriate department. Your name will not be disclosed.

:confused3

:confused3

Seems like the same spin our politicians use, an answer with no direct answer.

Maybe someone else can figure out what they reponded to me with?????
:confused3

I am surprised by their answer for a number of reasons.

First, they say, " Thank you for the information regarding the selling of vacation points."
This is a listing for a DVC rental and not the sale of vacation points.

Second, they say,"As a reminder, published policies limit the use of accommodations and recreational facilities solely to the personal use and enjoyment of Owners, Guests, exchangers and invitees and for recreational uses by corporations and other entities owning Ownership Interests in a Unit."
I will quote from Disney's Saratoga Springs Resort Public Offering Statement.
Exhibit 2.
Section 12 Use Restrictions
Sub-Section 12.1 Personal Use
"...Use of the accommodations and recreational facilities of the Condominium is limited soley to the personal use of Owners, their lessees, guests, exchangers and invitees and for recreational uses by corporations and other entities owning Ownership Interests in a Unit."

I added the bold above.

Can you please check your source and see if you made the error of omitting "lessees" or it was omited in the July 2006 issue of Disney Magic; I looked foir the issue but couldn't find it.

Third, they say," Disney Vacation Club has always maintained that Club Members are expressly prohibited from receiving compensation for the rental of accommodations under their Membership..."
Renting our unit has alway been allowed, just not commercially.

[DVC4All]

lol yeah myabe the have only one hand, maybe they 10 wives whats the difference

I had my answer once I received the email
lol

So you agree that this person may not be a commercial renter, thank you for seeing this possibility.

Then is this person possibly being unfairly attacked,
with talk of reporting to DVC and the tax collector?


yes I agree, of course I agree with that...

You still haven't answered the question.
Is this person possibly being unfairly attacked,
with talk of reporting to DVC and the tax collector?

[DVC4All]

nope, I contacted for my own benefit...
What benefit was that?
Why did you contact this person?

[PoohsGang]

I have never had a problem getting anything at the 11 month window.
Have You?
Has anyone here?
Can you give me any examples?

If I wanted a Grand Villa at the BW for Christmas week I'd call day by day exactly 11 months out at 9AM EST.





I'll bet more points are rented on these boards than on eBay. As far as "for a profit" goes, I don't think the price is an issue; and neither does DVC by the way. Of course, I believe DVC understands that how much an individual rents their timeshare for has no bearing on whether or not a person is a commercial renter; indeed, when DVC sent out the letters to possible commercial renters not a word about price or price per point was in there.






As for renting the majority of 2000 points, if an owner has 2000 and is in the same position as akk,
their only option to selling, giving away points, giving away vacations, and letting their points expire is renting them.
I don't have a problem with that and neither does DVC.

Do you?
If you do, why do you?





I am looking at what was 5 auctions:
1 was the sale of the contract and it has ended, leaving 4;
1, as you have said, does not include a holiday leaving 3;
3 are for prime weeks.






Perhaps there is more than just the two reasons that you mention: I do not agree with some of the opinions here; I think this thread needed my voice; I am having fun!
I gave you 3 possible other reasons.

So maybe I wasn't really tired and I am not fired up at all.





So you agree that this person may not be a commercial renter, thank you for seeing this possibility.

Then is this person possibly being unfairly attacked,
with talk of reporting to DVC and the tax collector?

I believe we reap what we sow.
There is talk of reporting this person to DVC and the tax collector, actions that can hurt this person without knowing anything about their circumstances. Are they commercial renters? Did they lose their job? Are they terminally ill? Is a member of their family ill? If someone feels so strongly about this why not email the renter and talk to them before condemning and attacking them verbally and reporting them.

I wonder if they would let their spouses and children know they have reported this person and also let them read this; I doubt it.





So if you wanted answers why didn't you call him?

Does the fact that this seller preferred to talk on the phone rather than communicate through email make him a bad guy?
Is that really the "best part"?

I dont really care bad guy good guy......I reported him to DVC and Ebay, I paid my money for DVC (My time in my resort) and no one will take that from me, there are rules, if he violated them , perhaps he will be dealt with, if he didnt violate the rules he's fine. Again I'll do whatever it takes to make my DVC investment work for me, even if it means reporting people, the way I look at it is if they say he cant rent those date that opens those dates up for us. You can provide every example in the world but the bottom line is I'll do whats best for MY investment/enjoyment at DisneyWorld, I pay my yearly dues like everyone else, but I'll be dammed if a non member is going to bump me from getting the dates I want, I don't care what they pay. There are rules, me reporting The Ebayer hopefully (although there answer was vague) will answer the question, Is he in violation of said rules or not? Only time will tell.

[sjdisneywedding]

Please answer the question;
Is this person possibly being unfairly attacked,
with talk of reporting to DVC and the tax collector?

I didnt go there with that, but in all honesty if they are not commercial renters then there should not be a problem

unfairly? I guess maybe, but anyone renting right now has to understand that its a hot topic among members and DVC itself. Its going to be looked at, but it doesnt mean they are going to have to suffer undue consequences.

Thats only going to happen if they are breaking the rules

[PoohsGang]

I am surprised by their answer for a number of reasons.

First, they say, " Thank you for the information regarding the selling of vacation points."
This is a listing for a DVC rental and not the sale of vacation points.

Second, they say,"As a reminder, published policies limit the use of accommodations and recreational facilities solely to the personal use and enjoyment of Owners, Guests, exchangers and invitees and for recreational uses by corporations and other entities owning Ownership Interests in a Unit."
I will quote from Disney's Saratoga Springs Resort Public Offering Statement.
Exhibit 2.
Section 12 Use Restrictions
Sub-Section 12.1 Personal Use
"...Use of the accommodations and recreational facilities of the Condominium is limited soley to the personal use of Owners, their lessees, guests, exchangers and invitees and for recreational uses by corporations and other entities owning Ownership Interests in a Unit."

I added the bold above.

Can you please check your source and see if you made the error of omitting "lessees" or it was omited in the July 2006 issue of Disney Magic; I looked foir the issue but couldn't find it.

Third, they say," Disney Vacation Club has always maintained that Club Members are expressly prohibited from receiving compensation for the rental of accommodations under their Membership..."
Renting our unit has alway been allowed, just not commercially.

Like I said before its the same kind of answer you would expect from a politician, ( Does Our President come to mind, I'm sorry off topic maybe topolitical, really using him as an example) an answer with no direct answer/equation to the question that was aske, I was thinking a simple yes thats a violation or no its not would have been better than all the junk they sent back to me as an answer..

[sjdisneywedding]

What benefit was that?
Why did you contact this person?

I dont think that is relevant to the conversation,
the only thing thats important here is the reply

[DVC4All]

I dont really care bad guy good guy......I reported him to DVC and Ebay...the bottom line is I'll do whats best for MY investment/enjoyment

I think in DVC it is OK to do what's best for members' enjoyment, as long as it is not at the expense of other members.

Even though this person may not be a commercial renter, you can hurt them.

[PoohsGang]

You still haven't answered the question.
Is this person possibly being unfairly attacked,
with talk of reporting to DVC and the tax collector?


If he has done nothing wrong we shouldnt worry. Unfairly attacked I dont think so when I reported him it was fair as I asked the DVC a question as to what he was doing legal or not. (violating terms of the DVC membership)

[DVC4All]

What benefit was that?
Why did you contact this person?

I dont think that is relevant to the conversation,
the only thing thats important here is the reply

I think it's important.
Why don't you want to answer.
Let everyone here decide it's relevancy.

[DVC4All]

If he has done nothing wrong we shouldnt worry. Unfairly attacked I dont think so when I reported him it was fair as I asked the DVC a question as to what he was doing legal or not. (violating terms of the DVC membership)

I disagree.
You asked a question which had a presupposition in it.
[I][U]...My question to DVC:Is commercial leaseing of DVC units like this one on EBAY allowed?
You presuppose that "this one on EBAY" is commercial leasing.
You are asking if commercail renting, like this (commercial)one on EBAY is allowed.
Politicians use these types of questions with presuppositions in them to get us to think a certain way.

[PoohsGang]

I think it's important.
Why don't you want to answer.
Let everyone here decide it's relevancy.

I contacted him also he only wants to respond by telephone, he wants your number. I contacted him to ask him if he is a DVC member or if he has DVC members who's points he sells for profit, that is the email I sent him he responded with "give me your number and I'll call you", he also wants your personal email (so Ebay cant track his emails I'm sure) which I did, he hasn't called , if he does I'll post his response. I'm not a betting man but may want to wager thet he never calls me...........

[PoohsGang]

I disagree.
You asked a question which had a presupposition in it.

You presuppose that "this one on EBAY" is commercial leasing.
You are asking if commercail renting, like this (commercial)one on EBAY is allowed.
Politicians use these types of questions with presuppositions in them to get us to think a certain way.

Disgree all you want I don't need you to agree with me, I didnt ask for you to agree with me. I asked the question to DVC not for you or for your benifit, strictly for my benifit. The answer they sent me I posted, for people to read and see what type of response I got. I didnt contact DVC wondering or caring about what you think. To be honset I could care less what you think, I posted DVC member services response, but I'm glad it gives you something to analyze. Again the question I asked was for DVC to analyze/check on, if you feel better analyzing it go ahead, I could care less. You have your presupposed answer that I'm sure you are entitled to. Im sure you'll have some type of presupposed response for us all to enjoy.

[I'mNoPrince]

I contacted him also he only wants to respond by telephone, he wants your number. I contacted him to ask him if he is a DVC member or if he has DVC members who's points he sells for profit, that is the email I sent him he responded with "give me your number and I'll call you", he also wants your personal email (so Ebay cant track his emails I'm sure) which I did, he hasn't called , if he does I'll post his response. I'm not a betting man but may want to wager thet he never calls me...........

Why would he:mad: , He's reading and maybe even posting on this thread:surfweb: . I wouldn't call you either:lmao: .


As for reporting Him. So what I would do the same thing if someone was breaking the law IRL as well if it effected me or my Family in any way.

[DVC4All]

I contacted him also he only wants to respond by telephone, he wants your number. I contacted him to ask him if he is a DVC member or if he has DVC members who's points he sells for profit, that is the email I sent him he responded with "give me your number and I'll call you", he also wants your personal email (so Ebay cant track his emails I'm sure) which I did, he hasn't called , if he does I'll post his response. I'm not a betting man but may want to wager thet he never calls me...........

Did he give you his number?

[sjdisneywedding]

I think it's important.
Why don't you want to answer.
Let everyone here decide it's relevancy.

lol ;)

what does it matter why I asked the question
that has nothing to do with dvc, other members, these boards, or commercial renting

the only thing that matters is that someone did not feel comfortable distributing info through email for others to see.

so I dont feel comfortable with that auction, it raises a red flag for me

[PoohsGang]

Did he give you his number?
No as I wrote he wants your number so he can call you.

[DVC4All]

lol ;)

what does it matter why I asked the question
that has nothing to do with dvc, other members, these boards, or commercial renting

the only thing that matters is that someone did not feel comfortable distributing info through email for others to see.

so I dont feel comfortable with that auction, it raises a red flag for me

And it is the opposite that raises a red flag for me.
When someone won't talk to me is when I worry.

[DVC4All]

No as I wrote he wants your number so he can call you.

Why don'y you email him back and ask him for his number?

[PoohsGang]

Why don'y you email him back and ask him for his number?
Anything else while Im at it?

He will send his cell number after you pay for the auction. ( I think hes really checking on who he is dealing with)

[Deb & Bill]

I'm tired of this thread. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

[Chuck S]

This thread has again strayed far from topic as to the possible impacts of renting on other DVC members. It is now closed.