Ownership Demand for Hawaii DVC Resort?

[Granny]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that they might have some issues with selling the DVC resort ownership in Hawaii?

I for one would love to visit Hawaii by using my DVC, but I can't see it being very often.

If we go with the Buy Where You Want to Stay the Most theory....how many people would really want to make MOST of their vacations to the Hawaii DVC location?

If people are still buying DVC primarily to go to WDW, is Hawaii a bad choice as there are no "fall back" plans that can be made at the 11 month window?

I suppose if I lived on the West Coast then an annual trip to Hawaii might be pretty feasible. But for most, wouldn't Hawaii be more of a "every once in a while" trip vs an annual or every other year trip?

Don't get me wrong....I think it's very exciting to have options other than Orlando, Vero Beach and Hilton Head with DVC and not messing with trade outs. I'm just wondering whether owning at Hawaii will really make sense for a lot of people unless they aren't planning on going to WDW all that often?

Am I missing something?

[WDWLVR]

I think for many on the West Coast it would be easier and cheaper to go to Hawaii then to WDW in FL. As for us we loved the Ko Olina area and would most likely do an add on that with banking and borrowing could be used to book a trip every 3 years.

[BostonDisneyKid]

I thought the same things and agree completely Granny. I do not see this as a viable option as a home resort for anyone other than west coast, usa residents or international owners. Nor do I see existing owners (other than the above mentioned) frequenting DVC Hawaii on a regular basis either.

[DebbieB]

It will be interesting to see how many of the 800 rooms will be DVC. I can't imagine them being able to sell points for even half of that number.

[salmoneous]

I'm doubtful as well. While I'm sure there are lots of people for whom a timeshare on Hawaii makes sense - wouldn't most of those people already own one? There are tons of really nice timeshares on Hawaii. What is Disney bringing to the table in an un-themed resort that the others don't have?

DebbieB may have the answer: Disney doesn't have to make that many of the units DVC. Perhaps the main job isn't to sell members in Hawaii, but to make the DVC system as whole more appealing.

[wildernessDad]

I'd like to go there every once in a while, but I do not want to make it my home. I do wonder if it will be available at the 7-month timeframe.

[Dman67]

You know, this is an interesting post becasue I've been doing a lot of resale research on Marriott Vacation Club properties and one of the critical things that you have to look for in an MVCI property is it's tradability. For MCVI a Hawaii property is about the best trader you can get. If you own at one of their Hawaii resorts you can pretty much get in anywhere you want with a trade. Now, with DVC the only thing that will have relavance in whether you own the Hawaii resort is the 11-month window. It will probably be real difficult to get a room there at the 7-month window for a couple of years once it opens because everyone is going to want to go check out this new resort. I'm not sure if this warrants purchasing points there or not. If that's the only factor then it may not be a great idea to purchase there, especially for us East Coasters. I will bet also that the Annual Maintenance Fees will be high since this is a beach resort so that's also a consideration that's potentially negative.

Now don't get me wrong I am totally excited about this announcement and am hoping to either be one of the first to visit the resort when it opens or at least be in line to get a stay there just as soon as I can. ;)

[Tinkerdreams]

I agree with Granny, if you are on the west coast, then a buy in for this resort is probably a good idea. But for the individuals on the east coast and Europe, this would probably just be an every once in a while visit (airfare would be the prohibitive factor for me) :eek:

[squidmo]

If people are still buying DVC primarily to go to WDW, is Hawaii a bad choice as there are no "fall back" plans that can be made at the 11 month window?

Am I missing something?

I think the key here is that DVC is looking to expand beyond their current market. 'Tis true that they won't be able to sell out just by selling to existing members- like any large new property, they will need new members to buy in. And with the new expanded offerings, I think they have opened up a MUCH broader market for themselves. Like me, for example- I do have a small OKW contract I purchased resale, but I was NEVER going to buy a full-sized contract when the properties were limited to WDW. Now that they've got some West Coast properties coming down the pipe, however, I'm planning on "adding on", and will have a full-sized contract as soon as they let my buy my GCV.

[Tigger031266]

I think Disney realized it is a smaller more targeted buyer so they are selling 2 years before it opens.

I agree is will take 2-3 years to sell out but I think Hawaii is a pretty cool location.

[epicureangirl]

Yes, a lot of West Coasters take vacations EACH AND EVERY YEAR to Hawaii. Usually for 1 or 2 weeks. Because the weather is great, it is not really as seasonally dependent, so I can imagine the resort being full almost all year. It might not attract as many add-ons by those of you on the East Coast and current DVC'rs living out East, but I can imagine this resort would attract a lot of NEW DVC sales to people who have never even heard of DVC. Their take would be, "Wow, I can still go to Hawaii every year AND I could go see what all this fuss is about Disney World". :rotfl:

[PamOKW]

It seems that Disney is making a commitment to move into the travel/resort business. To be successful, they are going to have to expand to reach a different market than the Disney crowd. They are still stressing "family" which can be a disconnect for some people. For example, to me Vero could easily be a world class, Florida resort.....except the catering to children gives the place a whole different ambience that probably doesn't always appeal to the adult travelers. I still love it but I see how it doesn't have the same appeal as say a Breakers.

Does buying into Hawaii make sense for folks who mostly go to WDW? Probably not. Does buying into Hawaii make sense to someone who sees the WDW resorts as only one component of the program? Yes. I wouldn't discount the appeal of this resort to not only West Coast folks but also to visitors from Asia who love both Disney and Hawaii.

It may also not be coincidental that they announced a West Coast DL DVC at roughly the same time they announced the Hawaii option.

[nuts]

Couple comments:
1. This will be a mixed use resort...so people will come and stay at the hotel, visit DVC sales center...and will buy. This model is different than VB and HHI.

2. Timeshare market in Hawaii is hot, so someone is buying :)

[BCV23]

Airfare from the Midwest is not pretty either.

We have a vacation at the JW in a few months and will evaluate after that. My husband is the only one of us who has stayed on Oahu and that was for business. We have no desire to ever stay in the Waikiki area. We'll have to see if Ko'olina appeals to us in general. We love the Wailea area on Maui but don't care for Kaanapali. Which of those areas is more like Ko'olina?

If we do decide to buy, we would most likely go every 2 or 3 years I think. Borrowing and banking would help of course but trading out won't work as well with DVC as it does with more traditional time shares... I think?????

[sjdisneywedding]

I thought the same things and agree completely Granny. I do not see this as a viable option as a home resort for anyone other than west coast, usa residents or international owners. Nor do I see existing owners (other than the above mentioned) frequenting DVC Hawaii on a regular basis either.

west coast and international owners would be more than enough for this to be successful. Hawaii is a pretty popular place its not like they are not getting their tourism because its too far away from everyone

[sjdisneywedding]

I really would not have any fear making this my home resort with thoughts of traveling to WDW on a consistant basis.

if you are just looking to go to WDW and dont care which DVC resort then there will be tons of options available

[BCV23]

if you are just looking to go to WDW and dont care which DVC resort then there will be tons of options available

But therein lies the rub for those who do care. And despite owning at what will probably be a high demand resort, one will lose any advantage when booking at WDW.

[lovinthemouse]

I think for many on the West Coast it would be easier and cheaper to go to Hawaii then to WDW in FL. As for us we loved the Ko Olina area and would most likely do an add on that with banking and borrowing could be used to book a trip every 3 years.


That is our plan too. I think once every 3 years would be what we would make for a fantastic trip. :goodvibes

[Granny]

Does buying into Hawaii make sense for folks who mostly go to WDW? Probably not. Does buying into Hawaii make sense to someone who sees the WDW resorts as only one component of the program? Yes. I wouldn't discount the appeal of this resort to not only West Coast folks but also to visitors from Asia who love both Disney and Hawaii.


Pam...I think we are thinking along the same lines. This is really a departure from reliance on theme parks to sell resorts. As I stated on another post, making DVC part of it is smart as it guarantees a minimum level of occupancy and more important a certain percentage of the operating costs don't have to be borne by Disney. So it reduces their risk considerably.

[sjdisneywedding]

But therein lies the rub for those who do care. And despite owning at what will probably be a high demand resort, one will lose any advantage when booking at WDW.

why would you buy Hawaii DVC if you had ONE place in WDW you really wanted to stay? doesnt make much sense.

one wouldnt lose ANY advantage for booking at WDW, they would only lose an advantage at 1 particular resort.

Its really the same arguement as with any other dvc, if you really want to stay at BCV why would you buy SSR or why would you buy AKL, or BWV or Hawaii in this case

[epicureangirl]

Remember that the west-coasters (and that includes Canadians like me) do not have a huge amount of tropical islands close by, like the East Coasters do with the Caribbean. Hawaii is THE island destination for us, period. Disney World is NOT a popular destination (in comparison), because of the hassle of connecting flights, flight time and additional costs. Not many of my friends or co-workers have ever been to Florida, but all of them have been to Hawaii.

For those people who do not frequent Disney World, the Disney name would still attract people looking for a family-friendly vacation. I think at some point on these boards you will see the new Hawaii owners asking questions about the Florida locations, and considering ad-ons there! There are very few people IMHO that know about DVC, but with Hawaii and GCV, I'm sure that will change.

[squidmo]

But therein lies the rub for those who do care. And despite owning at what will probably be a high demand resort, one will lose any advantage when booking at WDW.

I don't think that most new members have the information to care which WDW resort they stay at. And as a west-coaster, if they didn't have points available at DL, I'd choose Hawaii as my home resort in a heart-beat over WDW. There is only one Hawaii property currently in the works (and my guess is there won't be a second for several years, at least), while WDW has several attractive properties. When I go to WDW every 3 - 4 years, I'm mainly going to play in the parks, and as long as I've got a villa to come home to at the end of the day I'll be happy. Would I like to stay at BCV or VWL sometime? Sure, but it's not a deal-breaker for me if I never get to. And for me, the "peak" times at WDW (Easter, Christmas, etc) are times to be avoided, because the parks are just too crowded for me, hence, I don't need the 11-month advantage to get in at those times. Hawaii is a different animal, though. In Hawaii the difference in your vacation experience between 'High' and 'Low' season isn't as great (heck- it's probably always pretty fully booked), so I wouldn't rule out wanting to spend a Christmas or Easter break in Hawaii some day.

[BCV23]

why would you buy Hawaii DVC if you had ONE place in WDW you really wanted to stay? doesnt make much sense.

one wouldnt lose ANY advantage for booking at WDW, they would only lose an advantage at 1 particular resort.

Its really the same arguement as with any other dvc, if you really want to stay at BCV why would you buy SSR or why would you buy AKL, or BWV or Hawaii in this case

I don't follow your logic in your first statement at all. Hawaii and WDW vacations are quite different obviously. In our case, we do enjoy Hawaii very much. At WDW, we have bought where we like to stay. The other resorts are nice but we like our "homes." So it is possible to buy HI and still have a preference of WDW resorts.

Realistically, you lose the advantage for booking most WDW DVC resorts. Right at the seven month window, there is still a nice selection. But if one waits too long, the choices are down to SSR or SSR...and sometimes OKW. At least that is my experience.

I completely agree with your last statement. It would be silly to buy HI with the hope of staying at one particular WDW resort instead and I certainly didn't suggest otherwise. But if one buys HI with the intent to stay there and then changes one's mind for a particular year, there is no advantage to owning at HI at all.

So it all comes down to the same old mantra....buy where you want to stay.

[bavaria]

While I realize that most of you are Americans living on the East Coast or possibly as far west as the mid West, I think that you are approaching the question from your perspective only.

Hawaii has enough demand to fill existing resorts for most of the year. As someone already mentioned, many people living in the western part of North America go to Hawaii once or twice a year, every year. Add those to the travellers from Asia, and there is a very large customer base. (My German family members even go to Hawaii regularly, as does a friend of mine who lives in Florida) Hawaii is also a common stopover location for people flying from the west coast of North America to New Zealand and/or Australia. (Significant tourism originally started there as it was a stopping off/refueling point for the first Pacific airline routes)

I do however see a greater challenge - there are a far higher percentage of deluxe and luxury resorts in Hawaii than in Florida, and Disney is definitely not deluxe or luxury. They will need to improve the product or review their pricing if they want to compete with the quality that is already in place in Hawaii.

[BCV23]

I don't think that most new members have the information to care which WDW resort they stay at. And as a west-coaster, if they didn't have points available at DL, I'd choose Hawaii as my home resort in a heart-beat over WDW. There is only one Hawaii property currently in the works (and my guess is there won't be a second for several years, at least), while WDW has several attractive properties. When I go to WDW every 3 - 4 years, I'm mainly going to play in the parks, and as long as I've got a villa to come home to at the end of the day I'll be happy. Would I like to stay at BCV or VWL sometime? Sure, but it's not a deal-breaker for me if I never get to. And for me, the "peak" times at WDW (Easter, Christmas, etc) are times to be avoided, because the parks are just too crowded for me, hence, I don't need the 11-month advantage to get in at those times. Hawaii is a different animal, though. In Hawaii the difference in your vacation experience between 'High' and 'Low' season isn't as great (heck- it's probably always pretty fully booked), so I wouldn't rule out wanting to spend a Christmas or Easter break in Hawaii some day.

Great points.

[BCV23]

bavaria, I think people are answering about their plans. I think most of us know how popular Hawaii is. A huge % of the people I've met in HI are indeed from CA and visit on a regular basis.

I agree about the need to make the resort more of a luxury destination. Years ago, I think the deluxe WDW resorts were more luxurious. Service used to be impeccable, beds were triple sheeted, etc.. That changed when so many more resorts were added but there do seem to be small changes back in the right directions. I've read that both BCV and the Polynesian are changing to higher quality linens and the new mattresses are another nice improvement.

[burnsoc]

While I realize that most of you are Americans living on the East Coast or possibly as far west as the mid West, I think that you are approaching the question from your perspective only.


I think you hit the nail on the head. Most of the responses I've seen come from the perspective of people who bought to go to WDW every year. I think this was a very smart move by Disney. If I lived on the west coast, there is no way I would have purchased DVC before. With Hawaii and DL now coming into the program you have a whole new clientele. Hawaii will have no problem selling out. As someone who lives on the east coast, this is an appealling trade to me maybe every five to ten years. I'm glad they are expanding DVC outside of WDW now, it was starting to annoy me that every new resort was on property. The more options I have the happier I am with DVC. I was thinking of buying into Marriotts program also, but if DVC keeps expanding, I won't. I think a lot of the people who buy DVC Hawaii will be looking to go to WDW only every 3 -5 years. Now if they build in Colorado, I'll be one happy camper.:goodvibes

[bavaria]

bavaria, I think people are answering about their plans.

But that wasn't the question here - it was would DVC manage to sell in Hawaii?

Granny asked in his first post if he was missing something. I think that he did miss something - the volume of west coast travellers who may be interested. Several of us are simply trying to make that point.

[karrit2000]

If I buy in it would be a small add-on with the intention of using every 3 years by Banking & Borrowing. But if the maintenance fees are way out there then I wouldn't even consider it.

[BeccaG]

I think you hit the nail on the head. Most of the responses I've seen come from the perspective of people who bought to go to WDW every year. I think this was a very smart move by Disney. If I lived on the west coast, there is no way I would have purchased DVC before. With Hawaii and DL now coming into the program you have a whole new clientele. Hawaii will have no problem selling out.

I am one of those few west coast DVCers. I bought, DVC but a much smaller contract than I probably would have if I lived on the east coast. Now, I see the value of my purchase increasing, at least for me, in the opening of these new west coast DVC properties, and I hope they find success in Hawaii and continue to build. This makes DVC more valuable if I can stay "in house" so to speak and travel the country/world. It will make it less likely I will sell and diminish my need to trade out. Bottom line, I think Hawaii DVC, like most time shares in Hawaii, will do just fine!

[squidmo]

Now, I see the value of my purchase increasing, at least for me, in the opening of these new west coast DVC properties, and I hope they find success in Hawaii and continue to build. This makes DVC more valuable if I can stay "in house" so to speak and travel the country/world.

I agree- I think that the more off-site properties there are, the better. I've been debating buying another timeshare for my non-Disney vacations, but now I'm definitely going to wait and see what else DVC has up their sleeves.

Plus, I think the stronger the DVC system is, the stronger the resale values will be, and that's good for all owners.

[BCV23]

But that wasn't the question here - it was would DVC manage to sell in Hawaii?

Granny asked in his first post if he was missing something. I think that he did miss something - the volume of west coast travellers who may be interested. Several of us are simply trying to make that point.

Yes, I knew that was Granny's question but as normal the discussion has branched out. I interpreted your post to mean that those who responded about their plans were unaware of how popular Hawaii was. And that's not the case at all in my estimation.

I completely agree that HI will be a great lure for potential DVC buyers on the West Coast.

[doubletrouble_vb]

I see this as DVC balancing out their client load. I suspect if you looked at the statistics DVC will be substantially owned by people located in the NY/NJ/CT Tri-state area and Florida. And yes other eastern seaboard states with major population centers make up big swaths of the DVC populace as well.

This gives DVC an inroad into the western population centers. Hawaii becomes DL's HHI but corrected (I hope) for mistakes made there. It also gives them some place for existing DVC'ers to trade out to. Those trading in from Hawaii will be happy to get what they can rather than being specific. In a way it should help to start drawing off specific demand at WDW.

[tvwalsh]

As an original OKW buyer, I remember the grand plans that DVC had for a very large Vero Beach complex. Most of the accomodations were to be in a very large high rise building (or buildings) on the other side of the road. A million dollar tunnel was built under the road.

Sales were very slow and the plans were scaled back.

Hilton Head was also a disappointment to the DVC powers that be.

The lesson, which I thought had been learned, was DVC is an easy success when new buildings are built inside the WDW property. Outside of Disney, it is much more difficult.

I think DVC Hawaii will be a very slow seller and will be unable to compete profitably with the existing timeshares, many of which were built when costs were much lower and the market was much kinder!

I think those of you who think the expensive new building on 20+ acres of very expensive land will be a financial success are flat wrong.

Not only do I think it will be a failure, but I think it will hurt all DVC members, as DVC tries to make up the money by tightening the screws on us. :scared1:

I

[yitbos96bb]

It will be interesting to see how many of the 800 rooms will be DVC. I can't imagine them being able to sell points for even half of that number.

You all seem to be forgetting WHO this is targeted for. I'll give you a clue... IT ISN'T MOST OF THE USA (with the exception of West Coasters) ... its people from a country that rhymes with RAPAN!

Seriously, Hawaii is a hugely popular Japanese and asian travel destination. The same Japanese who LOVE Disney and many of whom fly to Florida to do an intimate wedding at the Wedding Pavillon (Watched many of them when I worked there). There will be many Asians who jump at the chance to be able to buy a time share and use it in Hawaii, Disney Land and Disneyworld, plus possibly the future DVCs at Asian Disney parks; if Disney builds them.

[squidmo]

The lesson, which I thought had been learned, was DVC is an easy success when new buildings are built inside the WDW property. Outside of Disney, it is much more difficult.

I think DVC Hawaii will be a very slow seller and will be unable to compete profitably with the existing timeshares, many of which were built when costs were much lower and the market was much kinder!

I think the problem with Vero Beach and HHI was that these properties didn't expand the market for DVC significantly (i.e.- they were trying to appeal to the same people they were selling WDW to). The Hawaii property, however, allows for marketing to a much wider audience, and that's why I think that it will contribute to the continued success of DVC. Right now, DVC doesn't have as strong as an appeal on the west coast, because why spend 5+ hours flying to WDW? If we want Disney, we can go to DL, and if I'm going to fly 5 hours, I'd rather go to Hawaii instead.

Another difference is they are going to have a large number of hotel rooms in addition to DVC units (VB and HHI are just DVC). I'm sure they will have a nice DVC sales center, and this will be another way to bring in many more new members.

If DVC wants to continue to grow and bring in more profits, they are going to have to expand- there is only so much market to capture in WDW, even DL expansion can only add so much. Hawaii is a great first step "beyond the berm" so to speak, because it's such a high-demand location.

[Anal Annie]

Hummm. Lots of interesting comments going on here. One of the reasons we purchased DVC was because it IS a timeshare and we intend to use it as extensively as we can both at WDW and thru trading out. We try to go to Hawaii once every 5 years, although primarily to Maui - so a DVC in Hawaii is a HUGE bonus - as long as they make enough units for us to book at 7 months! We probably really can't afford to add-on there - and won't unless we find we can't get in at 7 months. This will be a perfect companion to add 3 or 4 nights on Oahu to go along with a weeks trade on Maui (as we usually go for about 10 days)!!:thumbsup2

I think this will open up a whole new market opportunity for Disney to sell to the other side of the world too. The Asian tourism market on Oahu is astounding. The flights to Hawaii are full these days and timeshares are hot - I don't think they will have any problem selling this product. The fact that it's not tied to a theme park and I read that it will have a "noticable lack of characters" - I think that all says it WILL be a luxury property - one that WILL be able to compete in the market there. They've already done their research. They have a plan. And I am SO-O HAPPY about it!:banana:

(PS) we purchased at SSR because we were able to get in last year during the Friends & Family promotion - so that was the best deal going. AKV had been announced, but it wasn't for sale yet. We intend to try out all of the diff. DVC properties so we admit to being ones who did not "buy where we want to stay" as we want each trip to be a different vacation! We didn't buy at SSR to always have the same exact vacation every single year! That's one of the beauties of the way DVC works! We bought a timeshare that we felt was a quality product that gave us a lot of vacation options! We're looking at at the big picture!

[salmoneous]

Not many of my friends or co-workers have ever been to Florida, but all of them have been to Hawaii. I get the point that Hawaii is very popular, especially for the West Coast and Asia.

What I wonder - and I'm just wondering, not arguing - is how popular a DISNEY timeshare will be in Hawaii? Other timeshares have advantages over Disney. In general they are cheaper and have better trading value. What does Disney have to offer that other resorts don't?

Hawaii DVC seems great for the WDW owner who wants to go Hawaii every now and then. Is there a market for folks who want to primarily vacation in Hawaii and go to WDW every now and then?

As I said, I don't know. Just asking questions...

[Tinkaroo]

I agree with the above posters that cite the Asian and US West Coast populations as a huge untapped market for DVC.

Plus, there are also plenty of people here in the US that to them, Hawaii is like Disney World is to most of us.

I can speak from experience, as my father is one of these. DH and I own DVC, while my parents own 3 separate weeks (and counting) at Marriott's Waiohai Beach Club on Kauai. My father gets as giddy about Hawaii as I do about WDW, so both of our purchases were no-brainers to us (plus, we each get the added benefit of tagging along occasionally on each others' trips ;) ). Now, my family might be in a bit of a unique situation in that we do a lot of traveling, so we're able to fly on miles for our yearly treks to Kauai, but even if we were having to pay for airfare, I'm finding I'm not even getting the prices I used to to fly to Florida, so another $300-$400 is not THAT big of a sticker shock. And not having to pay for accomodations (which can be atrocious on Hawaii) makes the cost of getting there not as bad.

I'm interested to see what Disney does with the property. I do agree that there are some very luxurious accomodations on all the islands, and I'll be watching to see if Disney can marry that type of luxury while also making the resort family-friendly. I'll also be interested to see if they pair this resort with maybe some daytrip-type outings, similar to what they do with ABD. I haven't been to Oahu yet, but if I could experience some of the major tourist attractions there with Disney having made all the arrangements and greasing the wheels, I'd go in a heartbeat! :thumbsup2

DH and I are not candidates to buy into this property (we'll inherit those weeks on Kauai, and we prefer that island's more "native" feel), but I wouldn't be opposed to adding a couple of nights there every so often just to see what Disney is offering.

[Longhairbear]

I am one of those few west coast DVCers. I bought, DVC but a much smaller contract than I probably would have if I lived on the east coast. Now, I see the value of my purchase increasing, at least for me, in the opening of these new west coast DVC properties, and I hope they find success in Hawaii and continue to build. This makes DVC more valuable if I can stay "in house" so to speak and travel the country/world. It will make it less likely I will sell and diminish my need to trade out. Bottom line, I think Hawaii DVC, like most time shares in Hawaii, will do just fine!
I agree, we are also west coast DVC members. When HI was announced we realized we were just handed free accomodations in HI. Our membership is paid for, we are beyond the break even point, and we only have the annual dues to pay. The value to us has just increased immensly.

[tjkraz]

Disney won't have any problems selling this. Look at how beloved the Polynesian Resort is among WDW guests. Soon Disney will be able to send them to the real thing. West coast residents and those overseas will gobble it up. When Disney announces that the resort will become a DCL port, the cruise line fans will jump on board (pun intended ;) ) too.

I think we've officially reached the point where it's not even worth debating the perceived impact that a single destination will have on the program as a whole. We just can't have a meaningful discussion about whether Ko Olino Villas owners will help or hurt availability at the Beach Club. In less than a year three new destinations (AKV, GC, Hawaii) have been announced and a fourth (Contemp) appears to be on the horizon. Those destinations will not only bring new owners into the system but will alter the habits of people who have been using DVC for more than a decade.

Come 2011 when all four of those projects are operational, the last 16 years worth of member usage trends will be virtually meaningless.

[burnsoc]

As an original OKW buyer, I remember the grand plans that DVC had for a very large Vero Beach complex. Most of the accomodations were to be in a very large high rise building (or buildings) on the other side of the road. A million dollar tunnel was built under the road.

Sales were very slow and the plans were scaled back.

Hilton Head was also a disappointment to the DVC powers that be.

The lesson, which I thought had been learned, was DVC is an easy success when new buildings are built inside the WDW property. Outside of Disney, it is much more difficult.

I think DVC Hawaii will be a very slow seller and will be unable to compete profitably with the existing timeshares, many of which were built when costs were much lower and the market was much kinder!

I think those of you who think the expensive new building on 20+ acres of very expensive land will be a financial success are flat wrong.

Not only do I think it will be a failure, but I think it will hurt all DVC members, as DVC tries to make up the money by tightening the screws on us. :scared1

I

I think DVC definitely learned their lesson from VB and HH. Hawaii is a year round vacation destination with a lot to do outside of the resort. The land they purchased is on the water unlike HH. And they will be marketing to a whole new group of potential buyers. With a sales center at DL and being a mixed use resort that has a sales center they should have no problem bringing in potential buyers. I fail to see how they could possibly make up any lost money by "tightening the screws on us". Certainly the profit won't be as high because they had to purchase the land, but that doesn't mean it will be a financial flop. Sure the cost to build now is higher than it was five years ago, and the building cost today will seem like a bargain in five years time too.
Frankly, I'm glad to see DVC break away from their fear of building outside of WDW. In my mind the biggest mistake DVC has made was not going ahead with the proposed NYC DVC.

[Granny]

I will admit that when I started this thread I really didn't think much about Asian and other international visitors to Hawaii. That could be a very strong market for this new resort.

I get the point that Hawaii is very popular, especially for the West Coast and Asia.

What I wonder - and I'm just wondering, not arguing - is how popular a DISNEY timeshare will be in Hawaii? Other timeshares have advantages over Disney. In general they are cheaper and have better trading value. What does Disney have to offer that other resorts don't?

Hawaii DVC seems great for the WDW owner who wants to go Hawaii every now and then. Is there a market for folks who want to primarily vacation in Hawaii and go to WDW every now and then?

As I said, I don't know. Just asking questions...

I'm kind of at the same spot as salmoneous on this...can Disney really attract timeshare ownership in Hawaii with all the less expensive, and possibly higher-end, options available?

I guess what I'm hearing is that DVC Hawaii probably won't appeal as much to many of the existing DVC owners who buy mainly to visit WDW. It may open a new market to tap the Disney reputation for service and entertainment.

It will certainly be interesting. Hopefully, this will not go the way of Eagle Pines Villas. :rolleyes1

[jarestel]

I'm one of those who would be satisfied with an occasional visit to Hawaii and wouldn't consider buying points there. Or, for that matter, at any non-WDW resort since I would simply never visit often enough to warrant it.

I'm glad the option will exist but like Granny, I'm not sure how many folks would actually purchase points there. As has been suggested, maybe it will be marketed more for the people who aren't DisneyWorld fanatics. It will be interesting to see how it sells.

[BroganMc]

To me DVC Hawaii is a doubel-edged sword.

It'll attract West Coasters and Asian-Pacificers to DVC Membership.
It adds new destinations to existing membership.

But it also means more competition for WDW resorts at 7 months. (You think SSR has made BCV/BWV/VWL impssible to book, try adding multiple offsite ownerships.) While not every WDW owner will want to travel to Hawaii, you can bet Hawaii owners will want to make the pilgrimage to WDW.

As for whether DVC Hawaii makes good sense as a basic timeshare investment, I really can't see that. One of the reasons Marriott works so well is that they include multiple uses for your timeshare. (I.e. Easy deposits to II with full membership benefits; trade weeks for non-expiring Marriott rewards points; reward points can be used for airfare and hotels worldwide.)

About the only thing Marriott fails at doing that Disney does is retain its resale value. But since timeshares are meant to be used rather than as an investment, I can't see that being enough.

[cobbler]

I agree about appealing to the Asian market. My husband and I honeymooned in HI back in '99 and honestly sometimes we swore we were in Japan ;)

Being from the midwest we are running about $650 RT to fly to HI with 1 stop or $575 if we want to bounce all over the planet. For 4 of us that is about 3 grand - just to get there. I can do a lot with 3 grand at WDW.

We would love to get back (and curse the hotel we stayed at on our honeymoon) but it would be an every 5 year type of thing.

It definatly is marketed towards the Asian and W. Coast market as well as giving another carrot in the selling tactic for those of us from the Midwest going east.


As much as I would like to see something in the Caribbean or Bahamas - it costs me 1/2 the price to get to Cancun than to Hawaii - they have enough properties over on this side and expanding westward is a good move.

[burnsoc]

I'm kind of at the same spot as salmoneous on this...can Disney really attract timeshare ownership in Hawaii with all the less expensive, and possibly higher-end, options available?


I've seen several people mention the fact that Disney is an expensive timeshare. It is in relation to most timeshares, but not those located in Hawaii. And most definitely not in relation to Marriotts in Hawaii. My hope is that DVC becomes like the Marriott program with all the trading options without having to go to II. BroganMc, from what I understand those Marriott points are only if you buy direct from Marriott (correct me if I'm wrong), and
buying from them is significantly more expensive than resale.

[tvwalsh]

How could they tighten the screws? They've already done some of them:

$95, maybe more, for trading into the WDW disney collection.

No breakfasts, not even water at member meetings.

Increases in parking fees and possible elimination of free valet parking.

Eliminating discount for annual passes.

Cutting the freqency of bus service.

Charging for reservations not made on line.

Less landscaping.

Elimination of free DVD rental and member discounts for rentals.

Self service check-in. Charge for counter service.

Charges for intra-resort transportation.

Charges for storage of luggage and baggage transfer.

Increases in fees for room changes. Elimination of free coffee for members.

Increases in fees for towels and soap.

Increasing the interval for trash and tidy.

No free housekeeping on long visits.

Elimination of Magical Express for DVC members.

Shorter hours at the pools.

Higher prices at the restaurants and shops


Yes, they can, indeed, tighten the screws as they have already started to do.

:scared1:

[gppnj]

I think there are so many members now that they could sell out most of the resort with just add-ons.

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that they might have some issues with selling the DVC resort ownership in Hawaii?

I for one would love to visit Hawaii by using my DVC, but I can't see it being very often.

If we go with the Buy Where You Want to Stay the Most theory....how many people would really want to make MOST of their vacations to the Hawaii DVC location?

If people are still buying DVC primarily to go to WDW, is Hawaii a bad choice as there are no "fall back" plans that can be made at the 11 month window?

I suppose if I lived on the West Coast then an annual trip to Hawaii might be pretty feasible. But for most, wouldn't Hawaii be more of a "every once in a while" trip vs an annual or every other year trip?

Don't get me wrong....I think it's very exciting to have options other than Orlando, Vero Beach and Hilton Head with DVC and not messing with trade outs. I'm just wondering whether owning at Hawaii will really make sense for a lot of people unless they aren't planning on going to WDW all that often?

Am I missing something?

[tjkraz]

How could they tighten the screws? They've already done some of them:

(snip)

Yes, they can, indeed, tighten the screws as they have already started to do.

:scared1:

Wow, what purpose does that list serve?

Of the things listed, the only one I notice that they have done is the $95 booking fee.

Meanwhile in recent years Disney / DVC have given us things like the AP discount, included DVC members in attraction previews and other special events, free DME access, member access to the dining plans, scheduled events like the summer and holiday members-only parties, ticket discounts for MVMCP, MNNSHP, etc.

You might want to try balancing the wild speculation with a dose of reality.

[3DisneyKids]

subscribing!

[simzac]

I love WDW as much as everyone here. But there are so many different vacations to take in our lifetimes that don't have to include WDW, and with DVC adding Hawaii and who knows what else, we will be able to start enjoying these places while still staying in DVC accomodations. I hope Hawaii is just the beginning. And for those who worry about the 7 month window, who knows, maybe these new resorts outside of WDW will entice travelers to try their points outside of WDW. JMO

[burnsoc]

How could they tighten the screws? They've already done some of them:

$95, maybe more, for trading into the WDW disney collection.

No breakfasts, not even water at member meetings.

Increases in parking fees and possible elimination of free valet parking.

Eliminating discount for annual passes.

Cutting the freqency of bus service.

Charging for reservations not made on line.

Less landscaping.

Elimination of free DVD rental and member discounts for rentals.

Self service check-in. Charge for counter service.

Charges for intra-resort transportation.

Charges for storage of luggage and baggage transfer.

Increases in fees for room changes. Elimination of free coffee for members.

Increases in fees for towels and soap.

Increasing the interval for trash and tidy.

No free housekeeping on long visits.

Elimination of Magical Express for DVC members.

Shorter hours at the pools.

Higher prices at the restaurants and shops


Yes, they can, indeed, tighten the screws as they have already started to do.

:scared1:

I think you forgot to add charging for toilet paper.;)
As far as charging for reservations not made online, I would love for them to do this as it would mean I could book online!

[Island Mouse]

I don't think Disney will have any problems selling out their Ko Olina DVC, although I am interested to see just how many of the 800 units will be dedicated to DVC. But I do think the number of add-on contracts will far outnumber the new member contracts sold for the Hawaii DVC. There is a huge west coast and Asia market that will make this successful. For the units that don't go to DVC, Disney won't have a problem keeping them at 90%+ occupancy year-round. If I had to guess, I would say 1/3 or less become DVC. But we'll just have to wait and see. :thumbsup2

[JimC]

I've seen several people mention the fact that Disney is an expensive timeshare. It is in relation to most timeshares, but not those located in Hawaii. And most definitely not in relation to Marriotts in Hawaii. My hope is that DVC becomes like the Marriott program with all the trading options without having to go to II. BroganMc, from what I understand those Marriott points are only if you buy direct from Marriott (correct me if I'm wrong), and
buying from them is significantly more expensive than resale.

We do not know how DVC will price Hawaii, but I suspect it will be on par with or higher than Marriott.

You are correct, the ability to exchange your interval is a benefit of buying directly from MVCI. It is the only meaningful difference between resale and buying direct.

[tidefan]

I don't think Disney will have any problems selling out their Ko Olina DVC, although I am interested to see just how many of the 800 units will be dedicated to DVC. But I do think the number of add-on contracts will far outnumber the new member contracts sold for the Hawaii DVC. There is a huge west coast and Asia market that will make this successful. For the units that don't go to DVC, Disney won't have a problem keeping them at 90%+ occupancy year-round. If I had to guess, I would say 1/3 or less become DVC. But we'll just have to wait and see. :thumbsup2

Jim Lewis stated in the press release that at least half would be DVC, so that adds up to at least 400 units. Looking at the concept art there is one obvious tower and if you look on the left, it appears that there is a similar tower behind the foliage to the left. My guess is that one building will be hotel while the other will be DVC.

I think that this may be just the tip of the iceberg with DVC. Adding HI and CA back to back sure does make the timing of the opening of the Chicago Sales Center much more explainable now. What is interesting is that there are only 50 units at DL, but apparently 400 at HI. Makes me think that there might be something else brewing in Anaheim, perhaps a stand-alone DVC?

[disney-super-mom]

What is interesting is that there are only 50 units at DL, but apparently 400 at HI. Makes me think that there might be something else brewing in Anaheim, perhaps a stand-alone DVC?

Yeah, well with only 50 units at DL, THERE BETTER BE SOMETHING ELSE BREWING IN ANAHEIM!!!:worried:

[disneymom8589]

As a West Coaster, it was encouraging to have recent announcements of two DVC properties in our "neck of the woods", even though the GCV is only offering a minimal number of units. With the announcement not long ago from Alaska Airlines that they'll be flying non-stop to Honolulu from Seattle, this makes it extra exciting. Now if we can only get rooms at the GCV and Hawaii DVC at the 7 month mark!! :)

[phyllisnnj]

I believe DVC is targeting a different customer base (not just the folks that want to go to WDW one or more times a year).

I think they’re going after the folks that are buying timeshares from the other hotel brands. These folks are not necessarily looking to vacation at WDW every year.

We live on the east coast and DVC is one of several timeshares that we own. We bought DVC for our WDW stay every 2 to 3 years. Even though it’s a long trip from the east coast, we’ve been to Hawaii five times since 2000. It’s one of our favorite vacation destinations. We also preferred Hawaii to the Caribbean.

Hawaii is a hot market. Hilton, Starwood and Marriott have several properties in Hawaii and building more. These resorts are generally booked solid during the summer months.

Potential timeshare buyers associate DVC with WDW stays therefore DVC is generally not considered when folks are comparing hotel based timeshares.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34031

There is money to be made for the hotel based timeshare companies. Potential timeshare buyers like the idea of buying from a well-known hotel brand. DVC is currently limited their customer base since most of their resorts are in WDW.

Hilton - http://library.corporate-ir.net/library/88/885/88577/items/236342/March_2007_Analyst_Presentation.pdf

Starwood - http://library.corporate-ir.net/library/78/786/78669/items/263125/HOT092807.pdf

Marriott - http://ir.shareholder.com/mar/downloads/2007TimeshareAnalystPresentation.pdf

I believe DVC’s offsite expansion is a very good move especially if it’s combined with Disney resorts in popular vacation destinations. DVC offers one of the most flexible point based system in the timeshare industry. I think this will be very appealing to potential buyers. However if DVC wants to compete with the other hotel based timeshares, I think DVC needs to go with the more spacious OKW layout combined with upscale décor for their offsite locations.

["Got Disney"]

For my family living here in California traveling to WDW every other year and Hawaii every other year is the same travel didtance...about 6 hrs each way. Than we have DL 1 hr 20 minutes away that we go to at leat 3 times a year and if they do Cabo(as is rumored) that is a hope skip and a jump from here so we have decisions to make.

Is it best for us to buy at DL or Hawaii? We can get great priceing for Concierge with an AP if no rooms available.

To me getting small add ons does nothing unless it is enough to give us at least 10 days so(except DL) So unless we are willing to add on that many we would have to wait for the 7 mo. mark,

DL has less villas so will be harder to get into but Hawaii may have at least 300-400 so will be easier to get into with exsisting pts.

What do you think?

[paulasillars]

Hawaii has enough demand to fill existing resorts for most of the year. As someone already mentioned, many people living in the western part of North America go to Hawaii once or twice a year, every year. Add those to the travellers from Asia, and there is a very large customer base. (My German family members even go to Hawaii regularly, as does a friend of mine who lives in Florida) Hawaii is also a common stopover location for people flying from the west coast of North America to New Zealand and/or Australia. (Significant tourism originally started there as it was a stopping off/refueling point for the first Pacific airline routes)


I couldn't agree more with this comment. However I'm seeing it as a lot of NZ and Australians travelling to Hawaii and LA for their holidays...

We are DVC members but can only travel to Florida around every 2-3 years due to the shear costs of the airfares and had planned to perhaps trade out occassionally though we have yet to do so. However with the DVC in CA and now HI, we will most likely add on at some point to one or both these locations as they are so much closer!

We have direct flights from New Zealand to both Honolulu and LAX and both are very common holiday destinations for New Zealanders and Australians. I think there will be a surge in members from this side of the pacific with resorts closer to home soon too.

International travel and long haul flights are not a barrier to future DVC members. I can't think of a single person I know that has never been overseas. Most people I know go on an international holiday every year or two and many young people as a matter of course leave NZ for a long term to live and work overseas - mostly the UK. About half the people I work with have been to Disneyland despite the fact that we get ZERO advertising for it here.

I don't think it will be too long before we see DVC Paris and fingers crossed either Hong Kong or Tokyo (could I possibly hope for both? :thumbsup2 )

I'd like to think this is a long term plan to get the Disney brand known more widely especially with the new cruise ships and rumours of them sailing from the West Coast/Hawaii.

[paulasillars]

I think you forgot to add charging for toilet paper.;)
As far as charging for reservations not made online, I would love for them to do this as it would mean I could book online!

You can book online, I've always booked online. I've never booked over the phone. Far too expensive to make a long distance call! :)

[burnsoc]

You can book online, I've always booked online. I've never booked over the phone. Far too expensive to make a long distance call! :)

I stand corrected. I was referencing being able to check availability online not just sending MS an e-mail.

[dwelty]

Yes, a lot of West Coasters take vacations EACH AND EVERY YEAR to Hawaii. Usually for 1 or 2 weeks. Because the weather is great, it is not really as seasonally dependent, so I can imagine the resort being full almost all year. It might not attract as many add-ons by those of you on the East Coast and current DVC'rs living out East, but I can imagine this resort would attract a lot of NEW DVC sales to people who have never even heard of DVC. Their take would be, "Wow, I can still go to Hawaii every year AND I could go see what all this fuss is about Disney World". :rotfl:

Exactly, as seen from the perspective of an East Coaster probably not, after all it is a 10 hour flight! However, on the west coat it is entirely different. We think of Hawaii like you think of the Caribbean, except there is no third world component as there is on some islands of the Caribbean, and the weather is just about perfect all year long (and generally cooler because of tradewinds) I do not think this decision was made primarly with East Coast Members in mind. It was built to expand membership out west. Hawaii is the second largest timeshare market outside of Orlando. I do not think companies like Hilton, Weston, Mariott and others would build there if they had problems selling.

I would have probably had the same myopic view of Hilton Head if I was a member when it was built. I had barely heard of Hilton Head Island before I became a member (I live in Southern California). Although most East Coasters know it well. It is mostly an East coast thing. I cannot say the same about Hawaii since it is a huge tourist draw. Mark my words, this resort is going to sell well.

[veenstra56]

I would venture a guess that Disney is targeting a different clientele, or at the very least, an expanded clientele.

The Japanese, for example, are frequent travelers to Hawaii. They are an affluent society and (as Tokyo Disney has proven) are very familiar with the Disney brand and it's reputation for quality.

I also agree with previous posters who state that many on the west coast would be attracted to DVC Hawaii. Geographically, it is about the same distance to Hawaii as Florida for them, and many west coasters take Hawiian vacations anyway.

As for myself, I sometimes worry that DVC is expanding too quickly. Just in the last year we have AKV, Grand Californian, the rumors about the Contemporary, and now Hawaii. I think that DVC might lose a bit of it's "magic" if they're not careful.

That said, I would like to try all the DVC resorts, Hawaii included. We were married there, so it might make for a nice anniversary every so often. Have no desire to buy there, however.

[mikron]

I think Japan will buy most of the resort, they love Hawaii. If the point requirement is high it might be better to book a trip through a travel agent and rent your points.

[BCV23]

Alaska is another market for HI DVC although not as large.

I han't hear the rumor about Cabo? Any more details?

[littlestar]

I hope Disney does the resort "right." Starwood and Marriott offer plush bedding, linens, furnishings, and a deed that doesn't expire. We just got back from OKW and I loved our trip, but the bedding/sheets left a lot to be desired. Hopefully Disney won't use low cost linens in Hawaii like they do at WDW. They won't have the theme parks as a backup for lack of quality in Hawaii. I really hope they are up to the task. Hopefully their bean counters are smart enough to realize what they are competing against in new markets away from their theme parks.

[Granny]

I've seen several people mention the fact that Disney is an expensive timeshare. It is in relation to most timeshares, but not those located in Hawaii. And most definitely not in relation to Marriotts in Hawaii. My hope is that DVC becomes like the Marriott program with all the trading options without having to go to II. BroganMc, from what I understand those Marriott points are only if you buy direct from Marriott (correct me if I'm wrong), and
buying from them is significantly more expensive than resale.

Excellent comment! :)

I will be the first to admit that I am not very familiar with timeshares beyond DVC. However, what I've seen repeatedly on these (and other) boards over the years is that DVC is more expensive than alternatives in the same location. In other words, DVC-Orlando is more expensive than other timeshares there and DVC-Hilton Head is more expensive than other timeshares there, etc.

So the assumption is that DVC-Hawaii will also try to command a premium? Hard to say, and will be one of the interesting aspects of this new development to watch.

[tomandrobin]

I hope Disney does the resort "right." Starwood and Marriott offer plush bedding, linens, furnishings, and a deed that doesn't expire. We just got back from OKW and I loved our trip, but the bedding/sheets left a lot to be desired. Hopefully Disney won't use low cost linens in Hawaii like they do at WDW. They won't have the theme parks as a backup for lack of quality in Hawaii. I really hope they are up to the task. Hopefully their bean counters are smart enough to realize what they are competing against in new markets away from their theme parks.

With the new resort having the Marriot and the JW as neighbors, the bar has been set for Disney to meet and exceed. I think Disney will go all out on thier first non-park hotel. They will have to prove that Disney is in the hotel business to succeed.

The new cruise ships will have a big influence on the new resort. I can see the new ships weekly heading out to Hawaii from California. Possibly offering occassional cruises to Japan and other Asian ports.

[jarestel]

I don't think anyone is disputing that Hawaii is a popular vacation destination. For those who enjoy visiting Hawaii on a regular basis, there are already plenty of options. The question is will the addition of DVC in Hawaii be enough to draw in the Disney crowd without the allure of the theme parks?

If a prospective buyer of DVC-Hawaii was planning to use the points for primarily Hawaii vacations with an occasional WDW visit, other existing timeshares might be a better fit for that person. On the other hand, if a prospective buyer was considering using the points mainly at WDW with an occasional visit to Hawaii, that buyer would no doubt be paying high (if not the highest) maintenance fees and dealing with seven month booking windows most of the time.

DVC Hawaii, along with DVC California, might be the best fit for those who don't envision traveling to Florida very often. Without the WDW theme-parks though, it's doubtful that too many of us would own DVC today. As always, time will tell.

[AnnaS]

subscribing

[tvwalsh]

I don't think anyone is disputing that Hawaii is a popular vacation destination. For those who enjoy visiting Hawaii on a regular basis, there are already plenty of options. The question is will the addition of DVC in Hawaii be enough to draw in the Disney crowd without the allure of the theme parks?

If a prospective buyer of DVC-Hawaii was planning to use the points for primarily Hawaii vacations with an occasional WDW visit, other existing timeshares might be a better fit for that person. On the other hand, if a prospective buyer was considering using the points mainly at WDW with an occasional visit to Hawaii, that buyer would no doubt be paying high (if not the highest) maintenance fees and dealing with seven month booking windows most of the time.

DVC Hawaii, along with DVC California, might be the best fit for those who don't envision traveling to Florida very often. Without the WDW theme-parks though, it's doubtful that too many of us would own DVC today. As always, time will tell.

I agree exactly! Hawaii is an adult destination. It is served by many extra-deluxe timeshares which will be cheaper than DVC, with lower maintenance costs, and will have much better tradability for all but accomodations inside WDW. (And those only at seven months out)

Just because it is Disney doesn't mean it will be a success. I expect that this will be a money losing disaster and that the building will have to be sold at a breathtaking loss to a company with more experience and acceptance in the Hawaii market. :sad2:

[calypso*a*go-go]

I live on the west coast and can tell you the only really great air deals into Hawaii are from California (Sacramento, Oakland, San Francisco, Los Angeles) because there are some smaller airlines that the "big dogs" have to compete with. For us, it's always been cheaper to fly to Florida. Because of this, if we bought points in Hawaii at all...it would be enough for a stay every three years or so. Even if the resort is a tie-in with DCL in some way, we still wouldn't go more often because the price of the cruise on top of the airfare and hotel would make it all the more cost-prohibitive.

Another thing I'm questioning is whether or not Hawaii can really handle another cruise ship as NCL just moved one of their ships (Pride of Hawaii) that was specifically built for the islands to another itinerary because the market was over-saturated. I know there really isn't a comparison between NCL and DCL, but I'm really curious as to whether or not a new Disney ship would stay in Hawaii permanently or just be based there a few months of the year.

[barndweller]

you can bet Hawaii owners will want to make the pilgrimage to WDW.

HUH??? This is an unfounded statement. There are plenty of Hawaii timeshare owners like myself who would never in a million years trade our Hawaii time for an amusement park in Orlando! Although I enjoy vacationing at WDW, buying into DVC doesn't make sense for me since I'm a west coaster who has only been to WDW twice but vacations in Hawaii every year. If I were to purchase any DVC it would be Ca. or Hawaii and I would never use my points for WDW. It's too easy to trade one of my other timeshares for DVC Orlando.

I think you will end up very surprised at how popular DVC locations in the west will be. Finally, Disney is thinking about the huge market beyond the Mouse lovers & east coasters. Halleluja! About time.

[simzac]

I agree exactly! Hawaii is an adult destination. It is served by many extra-deluxe timeshares which will be cheaper than DVC, with lower maintenance costs, and will have much better tradability for all but accomodations inside WDW. (And those only at seven months out)

Just because it is Disney doesn't mean it will be a success. I expect that this will be a money losing disaster and that the building will have to be sold at a breathtaking loss to a company with more experience and acceptance in the Hawaii market. :sad2:

I must respectfully disagree with your thoughts and say I feel it has a great chance of being a complete success. The world we live in continues to change, and Disney feels its needs to change with it in order to stay profitable. Only time will tell who it right and who is wrong. But isn't that how everything in life is?:confused3

[tvwalsh]

Thenks for the respectful counterpoint, simzac.

My attitude is probably too strongly effected by my experience with Disney's Vero Beach retrenchment.

It was sad for me to see DVC unable to compete when offering timeshares on the ocean. I bought VB right after it was offered and expected it to be the cat's pajamas. (Yes, I am very old!) :)

[simzac]

Thenks for the respectful counterpoint, simzac.

My attitude is probably too strongly effected by my experience with Disney's Vero Beach retrenchment.

It was sad for me to see DVC unable to compete when offering timeshares on the ocean. I bought VB right after it was offered and expected it to be the cat's pajamas. (Yes, I am very old!) :)

I understand your dissapointment with VBR. Who knows, if Hawaii takes off like I think it will, maybe VBR and HHI will finally become popular choices for DVC members looking for quality vacations away from the parks.

[tvwalsh]

Retrenchment:

The reduction of expenditures to achieve financial stability. :teacher:

I realized that I was using an old time word.

Disney dropped plans for the largest part of the VB resort. The highrise buildings on the other side of the highway were never built and the land was sold. Additionally, beachfront land to the South was also sold.

[tjkraz]

Hawaii is an adult destination. It is served by many extra-deluxe timeshares which will be cheaper than DVC, with lower maintenance costs...

What do some of these extra-deluxe timeshares run in terms of maintenance?

[3DisneyKids]

Hawaii is an adult destination.

Not so much anymore. The Hawaii tourism bureau is making a strong campaign for Hawaii to be a family destination...and it is working. (Think Vegas...now becoming very family-friendly.) Many of the resorts are beginning to cater to the needs of families because that is who is vacationing there.

[dvc at last !]

subscribing...

[3DisneyKids]

Thenks for the respectful counterpoint, simzac.

My attitude is probably too strongly effected by my experience with Disney's Vero Beach retrenchment.

It was sad for me to see DVC unable to compete when offering timeshares on the ocean. I bought VB right after it was offered and expected it to be the cat's pajamas. (Yes, I am very old!) :)

This is a good point. However, literally everyone knows that Hawaii is the "ultimate" vacation spot. And even if Hawaii is not someone's cup of tea, they readily admit that it is one of the top vacation destinations. On the contrary, how many folks have heard of Vero Beach? I wonder if this had something to do with the "failure" of Vero Beach (and I use that term very lightly).

As they say in real estate, it is always about location, location, location. Disney seems to have that with this HI resort. Time will tell.

[Boardwalker]

Hey guys, I only read the last page of this thread but how far back do I have to go to see History repeating itself?
Guess what, General Public?
Disney has started resorts that have no ties to themeparks, that are on beaches, and that you can buy into?
Just get the old brochures to VB and HHI, cross out turtles and write in whales... Oh and the characters don't fit in either so if that is what you think Disney means, think again...
And I may be old, but I am not yet senile enough to forget that we have THAT teeshirt. The one that says Vero Beach, or is it Hilton Head Island? ...

[paulasillars]

I stand corrected. I was referencing being able to check availability online not just sending MS an e-mail.


Now that would make me a very happy DVC'er :)

[Anal Annie]

Hawaii is an adult destination. It is served by many extra-deluxe timeshares which will be cheaper than DVC, with lower maintenance costs, and will have much better tradability for all but accomodations inside WDW. (And those only at seven months out)

Just because it is Disney doesn't mean it will be a success. I expect that this will be a money losing disaster and that the building will have to be sold at a breathtaking loss to a company with more experience and acceptance in the Hawaii market. :sad2:

I disagree with that statement! Hawaii is NOT just an adult destination! Oh sure - there are a lot of honeymooners but there's also a lot of families. Maybe if you prefer the quietness of Kauai...but that is not true for us!

We went to Hawaii in 10/01 w/o our DS - it was the first and only time we vacationed without him 'cuz there were so many other families there that we missed him every time we saw another kid! I felt like such a loser the whole trip! I had never noticed on our previous trips how many people traveled there with their kids until we left ours at home! So when we got home we promised him we'd take him next time we went and last summer we did! Other than lots of great swimming & snorkeling he had a great time at Pearl Harbor and on the USS Missouri - very educational for him to have that opportunity. Then of course there was the volcano on the Big Island (what little boy doesn't love the idea of hot lava?!).

I might consider one of those romantic bungalow huts built out over the water in Tahiti or BoraBora to be an adult destination...but not Hawaii!!!! I believe Disney will build it right and will build it to compete and that it will be a complete success! We live on the east coast and if we can't get in at 7 months then we'll probably do an add-on that would give us enough points for a stay there every few years. Until we get a chance to try it out in 2011 I will say that we will probably still prefer Maui to Oahu - so we'll only need enough points for a studio for 3 or 4 nights.

I am more anxious to see how they define a "season" there tho as Hawaii is a popular destination year round...I think they're going to be hard pressed to form 5 "seasons" there like they do at the other DVC resorts...I would imagine the "Adventure" and "Choice" seasons will be quite short!!

[phyllisnnj]

Yes, there's stuff for kids too on Oahu

Hananuma Bay - http://www.hanauma-bay-hawaii.com/
Polynesian Cultural Center - http://www.polynesia.com/
Sea Life Park - http://www.sealifeparkhawaii.com/
Hawaiian Waters Adventure Park - http://www.hawaiianwaters.com/
Honolulu Zoo - http://www.honoluluzoo.org
Waikiki Aquarium - http://www.waquarium.org/
Arizona Memorial - http://www.nps.gov/usar/index.htm
USS Battleship Missouri Memorial - http://www.ussmissouri.com/
USS Bowfin Submarine Museum - http://www.bowfin.org
Iolani Palace - http://www.iolanipalace.org
Bishop Museum - http://www.bishopmuseum.org/

[phyllisnnj]

What do some of these extra-deluxe timeshares run in terms of maintenance?

Don't know what is considered an extra-deluxe timeshare but there's a current thread on the Timeshare User's Group website regarding Hawaii maintenance fees with a link to Marriott's MF history for all resorts including Hawaii - see http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55964

[burnsoc]

Thanks for that link Phyllisnnj. I wish I knew more about the properties to determine where they are in relation to DVC.:teacher:

[BeccaG]

With all the comparison to Eagle Pines and HH and Vero, I was wondering at what point was Eagle Pines canceled and HH (or was it Vero) downsized? I mean we heard this great promising announcement from Disney regarding Hawaii, and I know that nothing is in stone, but as a new DVCer I have no idea at what point in the process Eagle Pines was canned. So what was the exact course of events that led to the Eagle Pines resort that never was?

[tjkraz]

So what was the exact course of events that led to the Eagle Pines resort that never was?

It's pretty simple, really. 9/11 happened. The Eagle Pines resort and Saratoga Springs were apparently both on the table at the same time. Disney announced Eagle Pines about 2 weeks after 9/11 (back in 2001.) Shortly after that they realized that tourism wasn't going to bounce-back anytime soon. WDW started a series of major cost-cutting moves which included closing an entire Moderate resorts for "refurbishment."

The Eagle Pines resort would have been brand new construction with both Villas and cash rooms. Suddenly Disney had way too many cash rooms already.

Switching gears from EP to SSR enabled Disney to close the Disney Institute entirely (more savings) and still have its DVC project. But it's pretty clear that if not for 9/11, Eagle Pines would be part of the DVC family now.

As for Hawaii, even if we leave tragic events like 9/11 out of the equation, Disney has been rebuffed in its expansion plans before. While Hawaii seems to be embracing this project thus far, anything can happen over the next 3 years.

Once Disney holds an official groundbreaking we will probably have reached the point of no return--there's almost nothing that could stop the project once construction has begun. But until then, let's all just keep our fingers crossed. :)

[BeccaG]

:offtopic:

[tvwalsh]

Many of us have several contracts at OKW. I have a 230 pt and a 50 pt. I really don't know which approach in the long run is going to be the better choice for my future, so I have decided to extend the smaller contract and not extend the other.

If the proposal is found to be illegal I will probably get my money back. :thumbsup2

[Snookies]

Yes, there's stuff for kids too on Oahu

Hananuma Bay - http://www.hanauma-bay-hawaii.com/
Polynesian Cultural Center - http://www.polynesia.com/
Sea Life Park - http://www.sealifeparkhawaii.com/
Hawaiian Waters Adventure Park - http://www.hawaiianwaters.com/
Honolulu Zoo - http://www.honoluluzoo.org
Waikiki Aquarium - http://www.waquarium.org/
Arizona Memorial - http://www.nps.gov/usar/index.htm
USS Battleship Missouri Memorial - http://www.ussmissouri.com/
USS Bowfin Submarine Museum - http://www.bowfin.org
Iolani Palace - http://www.iolanipalace.org
Bishop Museum - http://www.bishopmuseum.org/

And on other Islands too. There were plenty of kids everywhere we went & in every activity we did (including ours :) ) when visiting the Big Island and Maui in June 07.

[epicureangirl]

Hawaii is an adult destination.

Yes, adults alone, as well as adults taking their kids. I will agree that there are a few ultra-high end hotels that primarly cater to adults (no kids camp for instance), but money is money -- and they like MY family money just fine. Amongst my co-workers, Hawaii is a place they fly their families (babies and kids too) for a week vacation (or more) every winter. Condo's, resorts with kids programs, timeshares -- it is an ideal family destination. As far west as I am, it is not the norm to do WDW as a family vacation. California and Hawaii are the big draw.

[akk]

I bought at OKW in 1993 and have bought at several other resorts since. When we first bought, the plan for DVC was to expand to Colorado, Hawaii, the Carribean, etc. I don't think that any of he DVC's have been failures but HH and VB slowed national and international expansion because they did not sell as well as on Disney DVC's. However, I think that was due to poor planning. Hilton Head was not built oceanfront. Most of the Marriott timeshares and the hotels in Hilton Head are oceanfront, and it was difficult to convince people that the marsh side was as nice as the oceanside and that it was just as good because they had a shuttle to the beach. VB I think was not the best site for a DVC. The beach is very short and no where as nice as the beaches in say Miami or Ft. Lauderdale. There is very little to do there. Yes, it is a great relaxing vacation,(but not at the pool with 1000 kids) So it was a little schizophrenic resort. A family resort in a quiet Florida beach with little else to do and a short (little sand) beach. Unfortunately, this, as well as 9/11 caused Disney to continue to make DVC's around WDW. We were very disappointed that the promises of worldwide DVC's was not kept. Eisner publically announce a DVC in Beaver Creek on Larry King, but it fell through. The excuse given was that Beaver Creek would not guarantee DVC members lift tickets. A lame excuse for cancelling national and international expansion of the club, and I think a big mistake. I couldn't be happier than with the announcement of a DVC in California and Hawaii. Finally, the expansion of DVC. Up until now they would sell the "tradeability" of Disney to other time shares but trading is nearly impossible and painful unless you are extremely flexible. Now there is finally other options. Yes, it may be difficutl to trade in the 7 month window, but it will still be possible. On our first trip to Disneyland this last summer, we were terribly disappointed in Paradise Pier and wished that there could be a DVC in Disneyland and couldn't understand why there wasn't one. We are now glad that they have agreed. And I hope they reconsider a ski resort and the Carribean and Europe, because I think that would continue to increase the value of DVC membership, and if planned properly and location chosen properly, will have no trouble selling out. I think there is no comparison with DVC properties (much nicer)and Marriott properties and Marriott doesn't seem to have any problems selling.