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View Full Version : Members ages at OKW? SSHHHH, we won't tell!!


dtheboys
02-13-2002, 11:34 AM
Hi,
In past threads, the slide and pool has alway's been a big issue.
Is age playing a part in the vote?
Let's see?
Does the younger member want a updated OKW, that include a slide, and updated pool?
Does the older member, just want a quite spot?

I feel that OKW needs to update....Pool, slide, food courtyard, etc, etc....
What do you think
PLEASE: Only members at OKW, should vote....so we can get an idea of the actual ages at this resort.....THANKS

PamOKW
02-13-2002, 11:52 AM
Oops -- you left out space for the 20 somethings. I think we do have some so maybe they can "write-in".....after all who's afraid to give their age under 30?

dtheboys
02-13-2002, 11:57 AM
Hi,
Hey, this is my first post ever.....I was hoping to get your help!!! Oh, well....I did ok!!!
OK, ALL of you lucky DVC owners under 30, be proud and write in your age......

PamOKW
02-13-2002, 12:13 PM
I think you did a great job! I always have something wrong/left out every time I post a poll! :(

PKS44
02-13-2002, 12:29 PM
Could one of you poll making savvy people make a similar poll for BWV and VWL so we have a meaningful comparison of the demographics?

Example, one ethnic group in NYC might make up 20% of the population, but that becomes more impressive if the same group makes up less than 3% of the US population...So does OKW demographics differ from other resorts or not?

Granny
02-13-2002, 12:38 PM
Okay, I'll add a VWL poll.

Granny
02-13-2002, 12:42 PM
By the way, all things equal, OKW should have a slightly older group due to the fact that the DVC members there mostly bought 5-10 years ago. Assuming the average entry age for DVC hasn't changed much, that would skew them a little older.

But also a little wiser! After all, how many of us say "we wish we would have bought sooner"? The OKW folks did (except for resales of course)! :)

Caskbill
02-13-2002, 01:03 PM
By the way, all things equal, OKW should have a slightly older group due to the fact that the DVC members there mostly bought 5-10 years ago.

Granny, Good Point. I've jumped a whole bracket since our original purchase in 1993. I'm sure many others have done the same.

dianeschlicht
02-13-2002, 01:59 PM
I am surprised we aren't as "old" at OKW as I thought we would be! I am in the second to oldest group, but I was surprised at the number of younger people.

Do I think OKW needs to update? No, I like it just the way it is. We have those other hotel like DVC's for those who want them...I don't.

Granny
02-13-2002, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by dianeschlicht
I am surprised we aren't as "old" at OKW as I thought we would be! I am in the second to oldest group, but I was surprised at the number of younger people.It's early in the poll yet.....most of the members haven't gotten up from their afternoon naps yet (yes,we're talking about the ones in diapers, but not the young ones)! :D

I know, I know....get off the OKW thread, Granny. :rolleyes:

Couldn't resist the jab. :p

PKS44
02-13-2002, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by dianeschlicht
Do I think OKW needs to update? No, I like it just the way it is. We have those other hotel like DVC's for those who want them...I don't.

I guess I am too young to understand this, but could you explain how changing the main pool would make OKW more "hotel like?" Is there a concern that more families would be staying there and this is a BAD thing?

I do believe all DVC, not just OKW should look to update when possible (DVD players, more interactive pool elements, etc...) If Disney had to rely on renting out OKW to the public, I don't think they would leave the pool as it is. Why would you not want to be the same kind of owner that Disney would be? I don't think that is a bad standard to go by. As new and better entertainment ideas are developed we add them to our main homes. (entertainment centers, remodeled kitchens, etc.) Why should we not embrace new developments at our "home away from home?"
Paul

PKS44
02-13-2002, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by dianeschlicht
Do I think OKW needs to update? No, I like it just the way it is. We have those other hotel like DVC's for those who want them...I don't.

I guess I am too young to understand this, but could you explain how changing the main pool would make OKW more "hotel like?" Is there a concern that more families would be staying there and this is a BAD thing?

I do believe all DVC, not just OKW should look to update when possible (DVD players, more interactive pool elements, etc...) If Disney had to rely on renting out OKW to the public, I don't think they would leave the pool as it is. Why would you not want to be the same kind of owner that Disney would be? I don't think that is a bad standard to go by. As new and better entertainment ideas are developed we add them to our main homes. (entertainment centers, remodeled kitchens, etc.) Why should we not embrace new developments at our "home away from home?"
Paul

jctwizzer
02-13-2002, 04:49 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PKS44
[Why should we not embrace new developments at our "home away from home?"


By the same token, we inspected the OKW pool before we bought, found that it met our wants and needs and the only disappointments have been the frequent (during our visits) closings due to a pool poop.

Which may lead to the question, if you don't like the pool, why did you buy there??:confused:

CarolMN
02-13-2002, 05:27 PM
:jester: :jester: :jester: :D :D :D

If you and your spouse are joint owners, but fit into two different age "categories" which age category do you vote in?:confused:

What about a poll for political affilliation? Do more Democrats want a slide than do Republicans? :p

Or could it be a gender gap? Do the women prefer different pool enhancements than the men?:eek:

How about regional differences? Do more people from California prefer pool slides than the people from New York?:confused:

How about people with kids and people without kids? ;)

Is it a matter of thin people (who think they look really good in swim suits) or not so thin people (who think they don't look so great in swim suits). BTW, does a slide make you look fatter or thinner?:( I think I'll start a poll for that! :D :D

Perhaps it's a class difference. How about a poll to see if there is a correlation between income level and pool preferences?

Do college educated people pool hop more than high school drop outs? Do they go to different pools?

The possibilites are endless. And IMHO, all of the above possibilities have just as much relevance as how old the members happen to be! :smooth:

:jester: :jester: :jester: :D :D :D

PS I didn't vote. I don't own at OKW.

Regina
02-13-2002, 05:29 PM
Thank you for not posting this poll in May. I'll be moving into a different age bracket, and I'm not thrilled about it.;)

I've been an OKW member for 10 years. The kids were 10, 9 and 6 when we joined. In all of the visits that our family has made, there's never been one complaint about the pools.

And no, we have never pool-hopped. We've been very happy with what we have at our resort. :)

PamOKW
02-13-2002, 06:12 PM
:jester: :jester: I don't think it's so much about the pool anymore....OKW wants to prove we're not a bunch of crotchety old, no fun, child hating people as we are being portrayed on the boards. ;) ;) We're the same ages as the rest of you and, as Granny has already pointed out, somewhat smarter than the average DVC'ers, since we bought into DVC years ago!!! Even our folks who check the oldest category are young in spirit. :D :D :D

RickW
02-13-2002, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by PamOKW
OKW wants to prove we're not a bunch of crotchety old, no fun, child hating people as we are being portrayed on the boards.

Well, you could have fooled me, based on the OKW annual meeting 2 years ago ;).

We had just bought an OKW resale about 6 months earlier (June, 1999). I was 27 and my wife was 24 and we were by far the youngest people at the meeting. I have never seen a group of people that old whine so much.

I'm just glad that they don't actually vote on anything at the annual meetings.

Well, I guess I should vote in the poll, since I just qualified 2 days ago. ;)

GAIL HAYDEN
02-13-2002, 06:59 PM
I am older, I do not whine, I like the pool the way it is, I purchased very early on and thought the pool great, and still do.
I do not like food courts, please, NO!!!!! This is not a mall, it is a resort. We have kitchens, if you want junk food, cook it.
I am not a child hater, cripes I had three!!!!!
I am a registered Democrat that votes to the issue and the person, not to the party.
I am an Episcopalian. I am white. I am over 50.
I do not think that we are entitled to a discount for passes beyond what we have. I was never promised anything more than what I paid for. I do not have an entitlement mentality.
When I go to the pool I like quiet (other than normal pool noise), I don't want to hear the screams and yells of people sliding, if I did, I would visit a resort with slides an other "fun" stuff.
When I play tennis, right next to the pool, I like the fact that I am NOT distracted by a lot of noise (other than that annoying music that plays over and over<peanutbutter and jellyfish sandwiches has to go!!!!>)
The one thing I would like is to see the Gurgling Suitcase restored to it's original size. That, IMHO, would be a GREAT improvement. It is way too small and since it has been dubbed an "old fogies" resort, that is the least they could do. BTW, I don't drink, but, enjoy being around adults.

RickW
02-13-2002, 07:26 PM
I should probably clarify that I do not believe that what I saw at the annual meeting is a good representation of the actual demographics or feelings of the OKW membership, which is why I said:

"I'm just glad that they don't actually vote on anything at the annual meetings."

(Although the people there seemed to believe that they represented the membership. There were comments that said things to the effect of "I don't care what your survey says people want, we have been DVC members since the very beginning and this is what WE want.")

GAIL HAYDEN
02-13-2002, 07:42 PM
Rick,
Perhaps if the general membership were allowed to vote on something, this issue and others like it would be a moot point, with the majority winning instead of whining.

PamOKW
02-13-2002, 09:26 PM
with the majority winning instead of whining

Or, if they'd allow us some wining (with cheese) we'd be so happy we wouldn't care!! :D :D :D

Gail, care to join me in starting a campaign to bring a pub with entertainment (like the Green Cabin Room) to OKW? That's another difference between the DVC's we should address. ;) ;)

GAIL HAYDEN
02-13-2002, 09:56 PM
I am with you on that one Pam, as long as it is adults only.
Sure beats the tar out of the thought of a food court.

PKS44
02-13-2002, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by jctwizzer
Which may lead to the question, if you don't like the pool, why did you buy there??:confused:

jctwizzer-
I see we are both from Saint Louis!
Actually I did not buy at OKW for this very reason...I own at BWV. But we did have to stay at OKW because nothing else was available and for my family it just did not meet our WDW expectations...Since our first visit to YC/BC my kids think WDW resort hotels mean cool pools. And even though I don't have nor should I have any "say" in what OKW does, I do have an interest for many of the reasons stated here and on the other poolhopping threads. Sometimes OKW is the only available resort-- it would be nice if the pool at the resort were up to the rest of WDW standards. Plus with the lower point requirements, maybe OKW stays would be our first choice -if we could be satisfied with the pool-which we are not...And if pool hopping ends at SAB it could have a negative effect on BWV, my home, which might be less if OKW offered a pool with more pizzazz and broader appeal.

Also-Originally posted by PamOKW OKW wants to prove we're not a bunch of crotchety old, no fun, child hating people as we are being portrayed on the boards. We're the same ages as the rest of you

From the numbers it looks like OKW members are NOT the same age as the rest of us- OKW has about twice the percentage of people clicking in over 50 as compared to BWV and 3 times as many as at VWL (by most recent check on the numbers)...Hey, maybe Disney knew what they were doing naming it OLD key west.:p Anybody who thinks over 50 should not be considered old should take it up with the AARP -which starts seniors discounts for members at age 55, I believe...

And from many of the comments about kids and fun at the pools, I must say many do come across as you describe, unfortunately. Some want the pool to be quiet, heaven forbid anybody feel like they were having enough fun that they might squeal with delight. Too rambunctious!...give me a break, we are not talking about Boomboxes blaring here, people are objecting to the laughter and squeals of children enjoying life...sorry, maybe they don't mean it to, but that comes across as old, crochety, and child-hating. If that is what they meant, well, thank goodness there is room enough in this world (and WDW) for everyone...

Young at heart (even if I did just turn one of the F-words last year)

Paul
just to be clear--- that F word is forty

WorknFires
02-14-2002, 01:36 AM
DH & I are in the 30-40 group and we like it just as it is. We squeaked in under the wire and bought OKW just before it sold out fall of 2000. Not to be mean and I'm not a kid hater but we don't have kids and I have to admit I enjoy the quietness of OKW. What children we have seen there are usually very well behaved. I've don't have any complaints.

Cheryl

KirstenB
02-14-2002, 08:56 AM
For some reason I can't get my vote to register---keep getting an error message. Anyway, I'm 35, my dh is 38 and we joined DVC back in '93. At that time we didn't have any children, so our needs were different. I can see us doing more pool hopping over the next few years with our little girl (and maybe a sibling). We also go over to the food court at DXL (not sure if the food court is up and running at Port Orleans with all the changes). My husband and I love OKW, but I can see where kids would want more action (pools with all the bells and whistles, etc). Maybe we'll cross over to the dark side (aka Boardwalk) occasionally...

PamOKW
02-14-2002, 12:36 PM
it looks like OKW members are NOT the same age as the rest of us

Of course our polls don't really show anything, but we've got to look at percentage of each group rather than total numbers since OKW is so much larger than the other two resorts. We also didn't get our "Under 30" category. ;)

spiceycat
02-14-2002, 12:43 PM
as far as Disney changing things at the DVC resorts at WDW - why don't they have VCR in the studios - the other timeshares in the Orlando area do - why - they don't have too.

the VB studios and inn rooms do have a VCR. I don't know if HH has them in the studios.

So forget the DVD it is not going to happen - well I don't think so.

As far as the ages - go - of course their are young people are OKW - you what do you think they have the adventure choices for - Disney did a survery back in the early 90's and got a surprise the average age for DVC (okw) was in the early 30's - for most timeshares it is in the late 60's.

dtheboys
02-14-2002, 01:32 PM
WOW,
I can't believe some of the comments..... "make it adults only",
"the kids at the pool were well behaved", "a quite place to rest"(go to your room) etc, etc....
Last time I checked, I thought Disney was for children, and families.....Sure, I like well behaved kids...I teach my kids to behave and respect everyone, not just there elders.....but all people....
Wow!
I've traveled to Disney w/ out the kids, and never stopped WISHING that they were w/ us.
Let's just make OKW......ADULTS ONLY..... wouldn't that be fun!!!! NOT!!!
A food court does not make it a mall......Disney has a lot of resorts w/ a small food court area....Is Wilderness Lodge, Swan & Dolphin Hotel, etc. a mall? They have a food court area? I'm not talking about a large food court area, but a small area where you can get a burger, hot dog, pizza, etc.
My wife does not want to run in and cook every time one of the kids wants to eat.
It just gives a place to grab a quick bite........

PKS44
02-14-2002, 02:56 PM
dtheboys- I think you see we are learning a lot about OKW here. I think we are seeing a true sentiment to make it a more Adults ONLY resort...at least some are being honest about it so we can see exactly what it is people are talking about rather than talking around the issue. ...Maybe the reason my family were not satisfied with our OKW stay was not just the "quiet" pool, but the "Del Boca Vista" attitude we have seen expressed here. (that is a Seinfeld reference to the unaware)..Please no angry defenders of OKW- your enjoyment of OKW has no impact on others finding it lacking, just as our disappointment should not affect your enjoyment. What is a shame is that sometimes people are forced to stay where they don't want to- and more often than not- that means OKW.after all, how many people complain of being unable to get into OKW so they had to settle for BWV or WLV? I have never seen it mentioned on these boards.)

PamOKW- I know these surveys are not necessarily accurate, heck maybe there are even more old folks out there who haven't even figured out how to use a computer yet-;) Still I don't see where you come to the conclusion that OKW members are the same age as the rest of us. The only evidence we have is the evidence to the contrary on these polls. The under 30 folks could write in -None have. and on the other polls they account for a small fraction, not enough to explain the disparity in age breakdowns. A much larger percentage of the OKW people appear to be seasoned citizens. I was looking at the percentages not the total numbers. About 9% of WLV folks were above 50, about 14% of BWV folks were above 50 and about 28% of OKW folks were above 50. As a resort representing a Florida location that seems appropriate.:smooth: Florida is about 25% "elderly," too. Given that OKW has a bigger group AND a bigger percentage that makes for a lot of older folks looking for a resort to reflect "older" interests....

It is a shame that for many older folks the interest is in excluding children and their sometimes loud and energetic approach to living. I hope I never think that way.

Paul

GAIL HAYDEN
02-14-2002, 07:06 PM
dtheboys
Last time I checked, I thought Disney was for children, and families...
No, actually it is not. If you look at Disney's marketing plan of late it has been targeting the "empty nesters", making us feel welcome, for a change. BTW, there are two areas at OKW for the snacks you mention. One is next to the Gurgling Suitcase and the other is at Turtle Pond. Both fit your description and I would not call the food courts.
I would not want to see OKW adults only, if I want adults only, couples only, I go to Jamaica.
Paul,
I find your lack of understanding about "empty nesters" or people without children, or people over 50 somewhat flippant. Perhaps when your children are grown and you face the other "f" in your life, you will understand what it is like to have paid your "dues" and enjoy just going on a vacation ...........alone and will enjoy the quiet peace that comes with it.

PKS44
02-14-2002, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
Paul,
I find your lack of understanding about "empty nesters" or people without children, or people over 50 somewhat flippant. Perhaps when your children are grown and you face the other "f" in your life, you will understand what it is like to have paid your "dues" and enjoy just going on a vacation ...........alone and will enjoy the quiet peace that comes with it.

Lack of understanding? I think your comments show that I understood it all too well...I still don't see how having one family pool in that huge OKW complex infringes on any other OKW person's chance for a quiet vacation.

...and I still hope I never think that excluding children and young people will enhance my life. (Young people can be good for you--look at Dick Clark!) :p :p :p



Paul

jasmine206
02-14-2002, 09:23 PM
Just wanted to get my 2 little cents in. I am 33, DH is 28, 2 DDs are almost 6 and almost 4. We bought at OKW sight unseen because we did want a place to go that was a little more quiet, remote even (?) to get away from the craziness of the parks (much as we love them). We may find we pool hop as the girls get older, but waterslides and tubing are in abundance at the water parks, if that's what we're looking for that day. We leave for OKW next Friday for our first real trip home (stayed one night in Oct) and can't wait. We looked at OKW as being our oasis at WDW, a place that felt more like home than a hotel. I think we did the right thing buying there, maybe we'll have to add on another home as the girls become teens, who knows?! :)

GAIL HAYDEN
02-14-2002, 09:31 PM
Ok, since you understand, then we can all assume you are simply rude. (not an attack, just an observation)
Yes, excluding children or anyone under the age of 18 can be grounds for an excellent vacation. When my s/o and I desire that type of vacation, we head to Sandals in Jamaica. That, btw, is where only couple and adults can be, no children, no none couples. It is very enjoyable.
I found my children (and still do) to be the most precious people in the world, and also learned that not everyone found them to be so. Not everyone finds the sound of someone else's children to be music. We don't hate them or dislike them, we just don't find them to be as precious as you do.
That said, the members of OKW, through polls have decided that it is not in the best interest of OKW to put a slide and lifeguard at the pool. Simple. Easy to understand, I hope. No one forces you to stay there, it is your choice. If you don't like it, don't stay there. I don't find BWVs to be my cup of tea and I do doubt that I would stay there even if it was the only DVC accomodation available. There are other alternatives.

SwampFox
02-14-2002, 10:09 PM
What is a shame is that sometimes people are forced to stay where they don't want to- and more often than not- that means OKW.

Forced?? I don't think so!! You had to call and make the reservation yourself. No one made it for you, drove you there and handcuffed you to the lighthouse. Your own free will got you there. The fact that you now choose to berate the resort and those who own there is somewhat hypocritcal, IMHO.

If the OKW resort was so bad and the pool so boring, why didn't you just hop over to the BWV and enjoy all the action there. I understand there is a wonderful clown pool there with a slide and DVC members are allowed to pool hop. That way you could have avoided all of the aged population at OKW you seem to disdain so much and kept your family happy at the same time.

It's become more clear, however, what agenda seems to be surfacing here. Instead of bashing OKW why not redirect some of your energy to calling earlier for a reservation at your home resort.

PamOKW
02-14-2002, 10:42 PM
Jasmine your comments indicate you understand and appreciate the benefits of OKW. Especially as I spend more and more time at WDW, location isn't everything. If I want to get closer to the parks I can switch to another DVC or stay at another resort. And, I do enjoy being in the action sometimes....but most times I dream about watching the sunrise over the golf course and finding a blue heron on the course. That is Florida and that is vacation to me. Other people are in and out of their rooms so fast it doesn't matter where they are staying and that's how they love to spend their vacations...luckily we have choices.

Some of my favorite encounters at WDW have been with children the ages of your daughters who are so excited to tell where they've been and what they've seen that day. I think you'll make many memories at OKW.

One last time -- Paul, the poll indicates that 76% of OKW people are under 50. The results are similar for BWV and VWL. We are also talking about 300 responses out of 60,000+ members so it's pretty meaningless. It mostly says that the people who post here are between 30-60. We've had comments from many young families. Personally, I was surprised that the pool survey here came so close to reflecting the results from DVC's survey a few years ago. I thought there would be more demand for the slide.

Many people like OKW as it is. Even if we didn't, we cannot dictate what DVC management should do. We can make our opinions known but we don't get a vote. Hounding people here and berating their opinions won't change it either. Call Mr. Aguel and express your concern to him.

I agree with Gail and others here. WDW is very popular with children and families. However, it is also popular with singles, married childless couples, married empty nesters, gay couples, all kinds of people -- Black, White, Asian, Native American and even young and old....the appeal is worldwide. Disney does its best to provide atmosphere and activities for all.

If there is something you don't like and you want to make suggestions as to changes that's great. You've done that. I understand your idea to make some cosmetic changes to the pool. It's a good idea and one DVC should consider. Attacking the people who post on this board and insulting them if they do not travel with children or are over 50 is uncalled for. You'll also find older people at OKW because in the beginning it was pretty darn expensive -- there were no 150 point packages -- and older people (40 and up) had the money. Those people are now 50 and up. You will also find older people at the GF because it is expensive. So what?

Okay, I'm done on the OKW pool -- pool hopping and the aging population of OKW. ;) ;)

KNWVIKING
02-14-2002, 11:13 PM
.. a VERY YOUNG 42. Emptynesters.
First I'll give my opinion,then I'll go back and read eveybody else's.

UPGRADE,UPGRADE,UPGRADE

1) Put in a slide-a great slide.
2) Totally upgrade the "gym".
3) Build a real Arcade Room.
4) Increase the size of the Gurgling Suitcase

Slides are just plain fun,I don't care how old you are. And if pool hopping is "doomed", then we're going to need one or our resale value could deminish.

The Gym. What else needs to be said.

The Arcade Room-ditto. I know PO is closed,but could we have the keys to their arcade room.

The lounge just lacks appeal. No real sure how to improve it,but just not crazy about it.maybe it needs a slide :-)

PKS44
02-15-2002, 12:26 AM
I guess the internet leaves out something because I have re- read my posts on this thread again and I don't see where I berated anyone. The only attacks here are the one's just made on me. Could somebody please quote me where I attacked anyone...I made a point of saying that it was fine for those who were happy to hold those opinions and they should acknowledge that it is ok for those of us who are not happy to have a different opinion and neither should affect the other's enjoyment or nonenjoyment.

Saying one group is older than another is not berating- it is a statement of how old they are....I observed that some were expressing opinions to exclude or limit kids from the resort...did I misquote or misunderstand?

Saying older people in general think in certain ways is no more berating than saying younger people or families in general make more noise. These are general pbservations not attacks on any individual, unlike some of the comments directed at me... I said I hope I don't stop enjoying the company of younger people, I did not say anybody else was evil or bad or rude because they think differently. This is what I hope for me-- what I enjoy now-- and hope to continue to enjoy. How is that out of line?...I was asking for some flexibility, some choices...in return I have been attacked for not planning far enough ahead or had my words twisted to a meaning that people know was not there...(being "forced" to stay somewhere is a figure of speech and everyone knows it.) BTW-- we did poolhop to SAB when we stayed at OKW. And I have not berated the resort, I praised its beauty...though I find it's pool lacking and I don't understand the OKW owners attitude about the pool. Hardly an attack.

I said that some comments come across as child-hating and crochety -and allowed that perhaps that was unintended but that it was an impression some comments left---and I did this without personally attacking anyone (which is against board rules).

Pam- this not an attack or insult we just don't look at numbers the same way and to me your numbers don't add up. BWV cannot have 18% of people over 50 and 76% under...that leaves out 6 %. Six percent is one third of 18% not an insignificant difference...(trust me, I have to deal with differences like this on a daily basis in life and death decisions.) VWL cannot have 9% over 50 and 76% under- that leaves out 15%. Ultimately though, why would it be so bad if one resort skews older? Why is that insulting? These are numbers, descriptors. Old -young, big room-small room, not qualifying statements like good/bad.

I think some message deletions and/or apologies are in order, but that is my opinion and that's okay with me if yours differs.

Paul

PKK/MJK
02-15-2002, 02:32 AM
When I was a little girl my mother used to say to me, "It's NOT what you said, it's the way you said it!" That is my reply to the above post--the tone of which is entirely different from the earlier posts. I completely agree with Pam OKW.I was dumbfounded at the insulting tone toward people over 50. Those of us in our fifties are NOT some ancient, over-the-hill, unreasonable creatures! Trust me, those of you in your forties will be in your fifties before you know it. You will not appreciate the rather snide comments either!

PKS44
02-15-2002, 02:59 AM
Originally posted by PKK/MJK
When I was a little girl my mother used to say to me, "It's NOT what you said, it's the way you said it!" That is my reply to the above post--the tone of which is entirely different from the earlier posts. I completely agree with Pam OKW.I was dumbfounded at the insulting tone toward people over 50. Those of us in our fifties are NOT some ancient, over-the-hill, unreasonable creatures! Trust me, those of you in your forties will be in your fifties before you know it. You will not appreciate the rather snide comments either!

I do not appreciate being attacked and misquoted. Show me the "tone" in an earlier post. I am stiill waiting for a supporting quote- -on the internet it is what you said --not how you said it-- because all you have is the words, any tone is your own creation...as I said, I don't get it. If it is so obvious, it should be no trouble finding a quote. That you resorted to your mother's saying proves there is no such quote. Where are the insults? Please show me where I said something like you imply...and I will apologize instead of expecting others to .

I never used the words ancient, over-the-hill, or unreasonable- never even implied them--you did.

And I believe these personal attacks on me violate board rules-is there a moderator out there?

WebmasterDoc
02-15-2002, 08:35 AM
And I believe these personal attacks on me violate board rules-is there a moderator out there?

Since you have chosen 3 am to ask this question and have chosen to challenge the way the board is moderated publicly, I'll answer your question here instead of in private.

We have often had heated discussion on this forum when comparisons/stereotypes are drawn about any of the DVC resorts. Those who have chosen a resort as their "home" often become defensive by seemingly derogatory comments about their personal choice. This has happened when someone mentions aspects they don't like about BWV and/or OKW- currently the 2 largest DVC resorts.

Since you have opted to singlehandedly sustain an assault on OKW, using age as your method of attack, you have awakened some members on two fronts. In this thread and the other current discussions (also on this board) about OKW pools and age of members, you have referred to age, Seinfeld, attitude, "O" people, being "forced" to stay at OKW and other such wordage numerous times. Your apparent surprise at evoking strong comment in reply is truly amazing and suspicious as to the actual purpose of the continued rhetoric. To cry foul after personally sustaining the same discussion on several fronts simultaneously tends to arouse my suspicion as to your real intent.

You have responded to individual points made by others by name several times, thus inviting point-by-point comment.

I do see one post where your comments were called rude, but am not convinced that was a personal attack any more than I'm convinced that your comments about OKW "being the way it is" is an attack either.

If you wish to discuss this further with me, I'll be happy to do so in private.

Thanks!

dtheboys
02-15-2002, 09:58 AM
It all boils down to this..........
We all love our resort, and only want the best for it......
That may the wants for a new pool, or leave it alone........
It may need updating, or it may not.......
Add a slide......or leave it alone......
The bottom line is....we are PASSIONATE about our resort....and in the end......that is what it is all about.....
No matter the opinions.........I'm glad that we as owners of OKW....care so much!!!
All this talk makes me homesick for Disney!!!.........
Thanks
Doug;)

GAIL HAYDEN
02-15-2002, 11:51 AM
From the numbers it looks like OKW members are NOT the same age as the rest of us- OKW has about twice the percentage of people clicking in over 50 as compared to BWV and 3 times as many as at VWL (by most recent check on the numbers)...
That is a rude statement, not to mention not factual, AARP is for anyone over 50. "Clicking in over 50" is bound to get a reaction and I believe you knew that.

Hey, maybe Disney knew what they were doing naming it OLD key west. Anybody who thinks over 50 should not be considered old should take it up with the AARP -which starts seniors discounts for members at age 55, I believe...

Can you tell me how that is NOT insulting?

These are a few of the many. Need I belabor this further?

danicaw
02-15-2002, 12:59 PM
I am not old enough to vote in the poll but have been an OKW member since 99.

Post the thread again in 3 years and some change and I will vote. ;)

In all seriousness I am 26 and DVC was one of the best things hubby and I have joined. I am looking forward to years of wonderful DVC vacations to share with family and friends...an sometimes not to share. Just hubby & I, a 1-bedroom and multi-day park hoppers...now, that sounds like a vacation! ;)

PamOKW
02-15-2002, 01:09 PM
Post the thread again in 3 years and some change and I will vote.

Or, we'll include a category for Under 30 on the OKW poll next time. ;) ;) (On second thought, let's not have a next time.)

I bet with vacations like you've got planned, you'll be celebrating a 50th Wedding Anniversary at OKW!

danicaw
02-15-2002, 01:40 PM
I would love that.
Maybe do a vow renewal too. Ohhh. I am getting excited already.

I have to warn you PamOKW my hubby might not like you putting ideas in my head ;)

dtheboys
02-15-2002, 01:49 PM
Ok, Ok , I'm a rookie poster!!!
I tried!!!
I forgot about the LUCKY young owners.....Or am I just jealous of them?
I HATE YOUNG OWNERS!!! ( STOP: I am just kidding!!!!!)
I wish that I had bought into DVC much earlier than I did!!!!
Good luck to DANICAW, I hope you celebrate many anniv. at Disney!!!
Pam, I want your help, if I ever post another poll!!! OK?
Thanks
Hey, at least things have lightened up a bit!!!
Doug

PKS44
02-15-2002, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN


Can you tell me how that is NOT insulting?

These are a few of the many. Need I belabor this further?

Where is the insult?

First of all when you quoted me you added your words to my quote, by accident. (I have trouble with how to change the on/off quote dealie here, too.)

Second, I truly, in all honesty, meant no insult with "clicking in" when you vote on the internet you click on the little vote button...I swear to you that is what I was referring to. nothing more...this is an example of people reading an insult into something that was never there.

Is it an insult to be called older? Is it an insult to be over 50? Please explain to me... and my AARP reference was to an organization which supposedly represents "seniors" that is what they use as a definition for older NOT me...can someone tell me where they define that term?...I said I believe (and I believe I am correct on this) they define it at 55.. I don't think that is an insult. It is a definition a factual statement. You re reading into it.

The "Old" in Old Key West is an amusing irony -if the resort is made up of older people and it is called old, I think that is ironic, not insulting. And again I don't think calling something old is an insult. You seem to think it is...I am sorry that you feel that way.
If it is so insulting to call something old, why does the resort have that in its name?

Was it insulting when dianeschilt was "surprised" that OKW polling numbers were showing it was not polling older? Her implied impression was that OKW is made up of older people. But she loves OKW so it did not bother people.

Is it possible that given the passion that dtheboys talks about, some people get offended and see insults by anyone who does not share the love of the resort of their choice? For the record and is evident all over these boards--I don't like the pool, I think the resort is lovely. I think how people perceive the pool is colored by their life philosophy which by its nature varies by age...Gail, you even suggested that only when I am older will I share your views--so getting older does affect the way people approach such things according to your own statement....

GAIL HAYDEN
02-15-2002, 03:12 PM
Paul,
Yes, the quote feature can be a problem, but, this time it was me, by accident and for that I do apologise.
AARP is not for the seniors but the retired (American Association for Retired People) the membership is open for anyone 50 and older. That never made it to the previous post.
I believe I said nothing about sharing my views, but, rather understanding.

RickW
02-15-2002, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by PamOKW
I bet with vacations like you've got planned, you'll be celebrating a 50th Wedding Anniversary at OKW!

Only if they decide to extend the DVC contract, since our 50th will be in March of 2047 (a little over 5 years too late).

Originally posted by danicaw
I have to warn you PamOKW my hubby might not like you putting ideas in my head

Why would I do that? You have enough ideas in your head about things already that I certainly don't need to blame PamOKW. ;)

PKS44
02-15-2002, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by GAIL HAYDEN
Paul,
Yes, the quote feature can be a problem, but, this time it was me, by accident and for that I do apologise.
AARP is not for the seniors but the retired (American Association for Retired People) the membership is open for anyone 50 and older. That never made it to the previous post.
I believe I said nothing about sharing my views, but, rather understanding.

Well as I understand it AARP members get "senior citizen" discounts etc, and represent senior's political interests, assuming, as I have to the consternation of some, that as a group they can be thought of as thinking a certain way on issues.

doc wrote : Since you have opted to singlehandedly sustain an assault on OKW, using age as your method of attack, .

Doc-
Attack? Assault? Singlehandedly? Read some of the far more nasty posts calling OKW people cheap, calling them whiny, wishing to eliminate them from poolhopping privelges, etc...None of those were from me...and some were truly nasty and out of line --and I called them that.

I do want to thank Gail for the above post, I think this is a nice exchange of ideas, and I want to say I really really am not trying to offend anyone, no offense intended as they say. Let's all just get along. I am shocked that people get so irate to think of my musings about understanding the motives (attitude) behind why OKW may have a resistance to a new pool as an attack on OKW. That simply is not representative of what I feel or what I have said...that could be from my insensitivity to the use of certain words- and it could be perpetuated by people reading into things with a defensive attitude (sorry about that word if it is perjorative I was not aware the word attitude was a loaded word)... My posts are only occuring on multiple threads because that is where the discussion is- a discussion I and apparently others, have found interesting...
First of all- look, there is a difference in thinking about this pool issue and it breaks down by resort in Pam's poll on the question. (OKW is about 70% against a change in their pool, others are about 50-50 on it...) Could age play any role? I am not the one to raise this issue, this thread was not started by me...read the intro to this poll....I think maybe age contributes.
The other thing is people take offense if I noted that we were hearing from a contingent who by their own posts wanted to limit exposure to children. Not everyone, not even a majority. Some one else called this the "OKW attitude" by name, I never did. I called it an attitude that we were hearing and that I found a shame. Think of Floridians as a group, anybody have an image? Of an attitude, that it is mostly seniors? Well Florida is about 20-25% seniors, a minority. But a vocal and visible minority which gives a false impression of the whole. Now OKW was creating an impression as being "old, no fun, crochety, child hating" (as PamOKW said they were creating, not me)- here again a minority ends up giving an impression not representative of the whole. Look at the post about the meeting attended by the whining seniors- that was a bigger attack than anything I said. Minorities can dominate the impressions if they are very vocal and if they vote more...something the minority of USA seniors is famous for doing...they dominate politically because they tend to vote as a block and they just tend to vote in higher percentages...that is not an attack on anyone - it is an observation...Please let's keep this civil...

Paul

PamOKW
02-15-2002, 05:43 PM
Rick -- I knew I was stretching past the deadline but I have faith in you guys and didn't want to stop at 25th Anniversary. ;) I guess I'll have to PM with your wife so you won't know the wonderful plans she has in store for you over the years. :D :D :D

Paul -- It's true you were getting some heat for comments that were made by others. But, we continue to go round in round in circles on the pool issue with you. When people give their reasons for enjoying the resort you seem to want to tie those reasons into being based on age and the stereotypical assumptions about people in those age categories. I do not fit into the older category and I love OKW and the pools. Several other posters have said they are in their 30's and enjoy the pools. No one has said that we want to ban children but some of us have commented that we would like adult needs to be given equal consideration when designing the resorts amenities.

Based on some of the vocal derriding of the OKW pools I was surprised by the number of non-members who felt that a slide was not needed. Since only a total of 11 people have identified as being Over 60 they are probably of the younger variety. I just looked again at the numbers and the 51-60 category (not adjusted) stands at 17% of BWV members and 19% of OKW members. Based on your concern that older folks are more vocal and can demand change (or resist it) you might keep a lookout -- they could be taking down the BWV slide any day now. ;) ;) ;)

PamOKW
02-15-2002, 05:46 PM
Pam, I want your help, if I ever post another poll!!! OK?

LOL! I think we need a place to "test" our polls....I always leave something out! But, I'm swearing off posting polls at least through Lent! :)

KNWVIKING
02-15-2002, 06:24 PM
I've read to about the middle of the 3rd page,just a few comments.

1) Gail, I really don't think PKS44 said anything rude or offensive. I actually like his sense of humor.

2) Gail,(not picking on you) you made a comment that the members had been polled about the slide and the vote was NO. When was there a vote, I bought in '97,no ones ever asked me other then on this board. Now that OKW is totally sold out,maybe there should be an official,full member vote,once and for all.

3) The "why'd you buy at OKW if you wanted a slide" argument is just plain foolish. If I was going to pay $15,000 for a pool, it would be in my backyard,not 1100 miles away. My choice of resorts at the time was OKW and BWV. I chose OKW due to size of rooms,parking at my front door,lower points required,golf course, etc. The slide would just be an added perk. Do I want one: yes. Do I whine because there isn't one: no.

4) I can't believe that in a resort the size of OKW that there isn't room for a "kids" pool with all the bells and whistles. Rather then raising everyones dues, maybe a system of an extra pt per nite for the priviledge to use that pool. Something could be worked out.

5) Food court,no. But something better then just Olivia's and Food's-to-Go(that is the name of the take out window,isn't it) should be built. On a scale of 1-10,if you asked 10 people about the food quality at OKW, I think you'd get ten different answers. Plus,our food prices at OKW are too high.

Well, back to reading the rest of the posts.

PamOKW
02-15-2002, 07:34 PM
I wish I could remember when the pool survey was done. It wasn't a survey of all members but one that DVC sent out to a sample.

Unfortunately, the idea of an extra point to use the pool won't work. DVC is an all or nothing proposition in the use of the facilities and their upkeep. Points also have no value in the eyes of DVC....they are solely the means by which reservations are secured.

We never get to vote at DVC where it actually brings about a change. You can, however, always make your thoughts and opinions known to DVC management. They take what they hear into account. If they see renewed interest, they might give the pool consideration again and/or poll the members once again.

KNWVIKING -- Wanting a slide and still appreciating the good things at OKW is great. I also agree that I'd like better food options at OKW. I've been trying to express that to DVC for at least 7 years. ;) We all bring up ideas -- some people like and some people don't. But, turning an idea into a vendetta against OKW and the people who enjoy being there and disagree with the suggestion is hard to take without finally raising "some Irish". Somehow this whole slide/age/OKW vs. BWV discussion got way out of hand! I think we all need a new topic to discuss.....

Anyone got an idea to "change the subject"?

RickW
02-15-2002, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by PamOKW
I wish I could remember when the pool survey was done. It wasn't a survey of all members but one that DVC sent out to a sample.

I believe that it was in 1999. If I remember correctly, there was a question about the pool in a larger survey, and those results were shared at the annual meeting in December, 1999. (You know, the meeting where I labeled everyone a "whiner" :) )

One thing that I remember from that meeting was the comment that they should switch all of the OKW studios to king beds instead of the two queens since "we are all older and don't bring our kids anymore and we only need one bed in the room." (On the other hand, the person who made this comment did get a few "boo"s from the crowd.)

PamOKW
02-15-2002, 08:43 PM
OKW studios to king beds instead of the two queens since "we are all older and don't bring our kids anymore and we only need one bed in the room."

:earseek: :earseek: :earseek: I thought Seniors would need separate beds. :earseek: :earseek: :earseek:

:jester: -- That means I'm kidding......

GAIL HAYDEN
02-15-2002, 09:14 PM
Paul,
You are welcome. :)

Viking,
I don't feel you are picking one me, not in the least. The poll was in the late 90's, it certainly was not a vote. The vast majority polled did not want a slide or lifeguard or a slide and a lifeguard.
Personally, I think a life guard would be a good thing, since I have seen too many parents leave their kids at the pool to hang out at the Suitcase. Call me an old Fogie if you want, but, I do think parents should be with their kids around the pool (the kids referred to are under 9).

Pam,
Ah, yes, separate beds for the seniors, along with warm milk (uck). ;) Don't know about you, but, this senior has absolutely NO intention of separate beds. Like fine wine, I have improved with age and all I can say is " let's party, all night long" !!!!! ;)

PamOKW
02-15-2002, 09:27 PM
Gail -- I think most of us on these boards -- not matter what age -- couldn't keep up with you! It always sounds like you know how to enjoy a vacation. ;)

GAIL HAYDEN
02-15-2002, 11:38 PM
Pam,
Not just vacation, but life in general. Last weekend it was up to Cooperstown (area) to see my daughter, her husband and my three grandchildren. Lot of driving, but, I had a GREAT time.
It was the middle grandchild's birthday, I am so happy I could go. :)

PKS44
02-16-2002, 12:31 AM
KNWVIKING

Thank you. It is nice to be understood and not misunderstood and misquoted, etc...I really appreciate your post- and your posts in the past, too.

Here is sort of a new topic- an idea that has germinated out of the current one a bit...I hope I am not offending anyone with these ideas- it is just bouncing thoughts into cyberspace not at anyone,(not a vendetta, for goodness, sake, please stop mischaracterizing my ideas)

anyhoo...Even the folks who love OKW just the way it is have expressed a desire for more attention to the adult activities...others desire the "bells/whistle" pool (me included if I am ever allowed near the place after these posts).:jester:

Would there ever be any interest in addressing both issues? Trying to please all parties? Making one of the resort pools more adult with a bar, maybe offer poolside massages, grown up food service, quieter atmosphere---I confess I don't know what else, I have never been on an adults only vacation, may be there is other stuff that goes on that I don't know about (and I am not being snide, I really,truly don't know)
I realize this is going to be misinterpreted by some but it is not meant as a joke or insult---it is just the name of this part of the resort---maybe that could be the Turtle Pond pool area. Maybe they could even try to book more grown ups only in that area--I have no idea if that is a nightmare for MS, it probably would be. But if they can do it with smokers maybe they could offer those who desire fewer kids around that option if they want that. (NO I am not equating smoking with not wanting kids around)

At the same time, the other main pool could get the update that some of us think it could use...Gail did make a very good point about the noise from this pool disturbing the tennis but maybe that would be a fair trade for the new Adults oriented stuff, but aren't there courts in the Turtle Pond area now? Or maybe the Turtle Pond pool could become the kids area since the Arcade is down that way...I don't really know the resort as well as most of you. But it looks like if you wanted to create a special adult haven that Turtle Pond area might be the easiest place to do it...

Now- I know this is just pie-in-the-sky stuff. I know some don't want any of the OKW tranquility to be changed...I note that is how the Member Guidebook describes the resort--though they show a kid jumping into the pool..I bet he screamed!

I hope this did not offend.

Paul

PKS44
02-16-2002, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by PamOKW
Paul -- It's true you were getting some heat for comments that were made by others. ...

Thank you.

Originally posted by PamOKW
I just looked again at the numbers and the 51-60 category (not adjusted) stands at 17% of BWV members and 19% of OKW members. Based on your concern that older folks are more vocal and can demand change (or resist it) you might keep a lookout -- they could be taking down the BWV slide any day now. ;) ;) ;)

I think as long as Disney has to rent out BWI we will be okay.;)

rbuzzotta
02-16-2002, 09:00 AM
39 today and DH was 40 2 days ago!! We LOVE OKW and wouldn't have it any other way. We feel we can have the best of both worlds...........relax at OKW and go wild or let our hair down at the other resorts (barring we have a babysitter!!) LOL!!

GAIL HAYDEN
02-16-2002, 09:47 AM
Paul,
Turtle pond has a bar and serves some snack food.
The tennis courts are by the main pool and there is one in the Turtle Pond Area.
Adults only vacations are great. Different resort chains do different things.
I only use Sandals which is pretty tame compared to Hedonism (which is definitely not something I am interested in). I am sure there will be a time when this will interest you and I know you will have a wonderful time.
Just giving you some information here. :)

sumessefui
02-20-2002, 08:12 AM
I can why people get turned off from reading these boards.

Joe T.
02-20-2002, 04:21 PM
Well, what a surprise. We are definitely in the minority at pushing 70. But, we are very satisfied with OKW as is - bought in 1995. Perhaps some of the posters have lost sight of the "timeshare concept". It should be different than a resort hotel. If we have the urge for a quick food court experience, the moderates are close by. If we need a fancy pool - pool hopping is available.

Our experience has been to stay at OKW when the grandkids are with us, and at the BWV when we have other adults. The kitchen facilities at OKW are quicker and cheaper than a food court when the family is together. Conversely, when the adults travel, fine dining is the norm. Prior to joining DVC, we used and enjoyed the food court at DL, but we have not used a food court since 1995.

Althought we enjoy the BWV because location, it is not unlike checking into aresort hotel. Give me OKW for the "Home Away From Home" experience.

Just my two cents.

GAIL HAYDEN
02-20-2002, 05:29 PM
Joe T.
Nicely said, Joe. :)

wcjoey
02-20-2002, 06:00 PM
dtheboys dont you have anything better to do! we like it this way at okw or we wouldnt have bought there!:

dtheboys
02-20-2002, 06:06 PM
WCJOE,
That's what makes the world go round.....
Different strokes for different folks!!!
I also like OKW, that is why I bought into it.
I would just like a slide at the resort, BUT I understand also why others do not want a slide.....I RESPECT there opinions!!!
Thanks:bounce: