Wait-list explaination-why do they sell so much space??

[y2khardtop]

OK, so I'm wait-listed at my non-home resort. I setup the wait-list at the 7-month window, in early December, which is a low point reservation.

While contacting retail sources shows plenty of availability, my wait lists are still not going through. I understand DVC needs CASH sales to supplement itself, but if members need rooms 7 months out, why do they hold out even when the retail sells don't need them?

Anyway, I have 6 wait-lists over two weeks, and it is a bit frustrating.

[Deb & Bill]

Well, if you would go in mid-January or mid-Sept or early May, you probably would get a room. They don't sell any points for rooms that could not be filled at sometime during the year. DVC is based on nearly 100% occupancy except for those points held by Disney for maintenance and other reasons.

As has been noted many times before, what you are seeing on the Disney webpage is lodging not available on points. Either it belongs to Disney or used to belong to a member who traded their points for a different lodging, like the DCL or a WDW resort. Now Disney has to sell that reservation for cash to generate cash to pay for the DVC member's trip on the Disney Magic or Disney Wonder or whatever.

[CarolAnnC]

Early December is a very busy time for DVC members to visit WDW for many reasons. Low points, nice weather, Christmas Decorations are up, DVC Annual Meetings just to name a few.

I tried for 3 years in a row on the waitlist to get BWV for the first week in December at the 7 month window without any success. I then purchased a BWV resale for the express intent of going that time period. I then made my ressies at the 11 month window for December with no problems.

Last year I decided in September to visit and was unable to obtain any DVC Resort at all, and had only one choice for regular WDW Resorts - Animal Kingdom Lodge through the Disney Collection. We grabbed that and were lucky to do so. You may want to explore some other options for your vacation week and have a backup plan. Good luck!

[y2khardtop]

That's not what DVC just told me. They said they "sell" 20% of the rooms all the time. I recorded the conversation if anyone is interested.

Anyway, I personally do travel in January, but this reservation is for a friend.

I am all for DVC selling unused reservations, but when members want them 7 months out and the retail outlets don't need them, I think members should come first.

[Maistre Gracey]

That's not what DVC just told me. They said they "sell" 20% of the rooms all the time. I recorded the conversation if anyone is interested.

Anyway, I personally do travel in January, but this reservation is for a friend.

I am all for DVC selling unused reservations, but when members want them 7 months out and the retail outlets don't need them, I think members should come first.
It may very well be 20%, but as stated earlier, that 20% is from Members trading for cruises and such. DVC must then sell those rooms to cover the cost of the cruise.
In essence, DVC is renting the room on your behalf, than paying cash for your Disney Collection accommodations. It's as though the Member used the room.

DVC can sell unused rooms from Member inventory within 60 days. This is "breakage", and is listed as income in the DVC budget.
(I think the 60 day timeframe is right, but please correct me if I'm wrong.) :smokin:

MG

[crisi]

It may very well be 20%, but as stated earlier, that 20% is from Members trading for cruises and such. DVC must then sell those rooms to cover the cost of the cruise.
In essence, DVC is renting the room on your behalf, than paying cash for your Disney Collection accommodations. It's as though the Member used the room.

DVC can sell unused rooms from Member inventory within 60 days. This is "breakage", and is listed as income in the DVC budget.
(I think the 60 day timeframe is right, but please correct me if I'm wrong.) :smokin:

MG

It would be nice however, if Disney returned those unrented DVC trade outs back to DVC at some point to fill waitlist requests. The room does no good to CRO unrented and there is a DVC member who does want it. Accounting for that would probably be a pain in the back end though - DVC has "sold" the room to CRO and can't "buy" it back since they don't have anything to pay for it with - except perhaps a future reservation and points have to stay in the proper use year or none of us will be able to book DVC at the end of our contracts.

(The more I think about the $95 and all these available DVC rooms on CRO - the more I'm convinced the non-DVC option thing is terribly broken and a feature that a few members take advantage of is causing the rest of the membership a lot of headache in room availability.).

[dis-happy]

I thought (or at least it's rumored) that Disney does sometimes pull back inventory from CRO to fill a DVC request, especially if it's going to go unused. A couple of summers ago I tried to do a last minute change (2 weeks out) from OKW to VWL for a late August visit. The CM left me on hold for a good long while (which I assume is when she pulled the CRO inventory for me) and gave me a room.

As far as the OP goes, I well imagine that there are a lot of people before you on the waitlist who will get their ressies filled first. Just because you w/l at exactly at 7 mos. doesn't mean that those who can book earlier weren't w/l first. Early Dec. is very, very busy. There have been a few times when I w/l my home resort for a busy time before the 7 mo. window opened up and still didn't get in.

[crisi]

I thought (or at least it's rumored) that Disney does sometimes pull back inventory from CRO to fill a DVC request, especially if it's going to go unused. A couple of summers ago I tried to do a last minute change (2 weeks out) from OKW to VWL for a late August visit. The CM left me on hold for a good long while (which I assume is when she pulled the CRO inventory for me) and gave me a room.

As far as the OP goes, I well imagine that there are a lot of people before you on the waitlist who will get their ressies filled first. Just because you w/l at exactly at 7 mos. doesn't mean that those who can book earlier weren't w/l first. Early Dec. is very, very busy. There have been a few times when I w/l my home resort for a busy time before the 7 mo. window opened up and still didn't get in.


I think they do, but I think that's breakage inventory they can pull back - I really doubt they can pull back the inventory that has been sold for trades. That would be the inventory that hasn't been rented by DVC 60 days out. Anything showing up with CRO now isn't breakage inventory - its trade inventory or developer inventory.

[hansel1]

OK, so I'm wait-listed at my non-home resort. I setup the wait-list at the 7-month window, in early December, which is a low point reservation.

While contacting retail sources shows plenty of availability, my wait lists are still not going through. I understand DVC needs CASH sales to supplement itself, but if members need rooms 7 months out, why do they hold out even when the retail sells don't need them?

Anyway, I have 6 wait-lists over two weeks, and it is a bit frustrating.

So, do you currently have a reservation at any of the resorts for early december? What about your home resort?

6 wait lists over two weeks is quite a bit. Are those for 6 different resorts or different days within the 2 weeks?

How many rooms do you need and at which resort?

[jekjones1558]

Okay, someone walk me through this. Say I use 500 points to book a cruise. My points are BWV, Oct. use year. How does DVC decide exactly which size room(s) and which dates are given to CRO to total 500 points value? If early December is so popular with members (and apparently less popular with the general public, if there are rooms still available for early December from CRO), why can't Disney choose to take other weeks for their CRO inventory in exchange for points? Sorry if this question is obtuse. I just can't seem to get my brain around this issue! :joker:

[crisi]

I don't think anyone knows. But I think CRO can't just pick other weeks because other weeks also have CRO/DVC rooms sitting empty. If there were a time of year where DVCers didn't use their points, but they sold like hotcakes through CRO then we wouldn't have any problems.

[Dean]

Okay, someone walk me through this. Say I use 500 points to book a cruise. My points are BWV, Oct. use year. How does DVC decide exactly which size room(s) and which dates are given to CRO to total 500 points value? If early December is so popular with members (and apparently less popular with the general public, if there are rooms still available for early December from CRO), why can't Disney choose to take other weeks for their CRO inventory in exchange for points? Sorry if this question is obtuse. I just can't seem to get my brain around this issue! :joker:Certainly we can't speak for DVC but the info I have suggests that DVC tends to reserve lower demand times far more than higher demand times. Overall though it seems to me that the first 3 weeks of Dec are not quite as high demand as members like to think and that some of the fact things are filled up are related to the idea that DVC does view this time are fair game for the units they must reserve. They are limited to the same booking windows are any other member. It's a balancing act of reserving to rent out and recoup the $$$ but not interfering too much with member availability.

Remember there are also points owned independently by DVD that includes unsold inventory at SSR and AKV and any points bought back under ROFR, but not yet sold. The fix for this issue is simple, just do away with the cash equivalent exchanges.

[Dean]

That's not what DVC just told me. They said they "sell" 20% of the rooms all the time. I recorded the conversation if anyone is interested.

Anyway, I personally do travel in January, but this reservation is for a friend.

I am all for DVC selling unused reservations, but when members want them 7 months out and the retail outlets don't need them, I think members should come first.My post above partly covers this issue but one simply needs to understand the competing forces and the groups of points that are truly separate. It's no different than saying why can't they give us the BWI , WL or BC rooms when more inventory is needed. IF DVC opts to take ONLY the times that don't get used otherwise, they can't rent them and all programs that depend on that option are effectively dead at that point. It would help one member and hurt another. Personally I'd be all for it because I've never seen a real value in those programs as a whole.

[Deb & Bill]

If DVC members didn't rent out DVC reservations for so little, more of the DVC rooms might be booked through CRO. And lots of non-members would probably wind up not going at all because anything else they would spend the same money on might already be reserved at non-DVC resorts.

[crisi]

If DVC members didn't rent out DVC reservations for so little, more of the DVC rooms might be booked through CRO. And lots of non-members would probably wind up not going at all because anything else they would spend the same money on might already be reserved at non-DVC resorts.

Yep, I think rentals throw off the supply side of the equation - when you can rent a DVC room from a DVC owner for about half of what CRO will charge you, its a bargain - even with the additional risks (cancellation policy, private party).

But other factors are at play here as well - DVC member cruises move a heck (that was a different word, but I'll end up with little stars) of a lot of points over to CRO. Not that member cruises aren't really nice, but they don't help a glut of points sitting on the CRO side.

[Deb & Bill]

...But other factors are at play here as well - DVC member cruises move a heck (that was a different word, but I'll end up with little stars) of a lot of points over to CRO. Not that member cruises aren't really nice, but they don't help a glut of points sitting on the CRO side.

Exactly.

[dizmomof2]

Do they ever return unrented points to DVC? If it was within a week and still not rented out I was wondering if they ever make them available to be rented by DVC owners.:confused3

[Dean]

This illustrates one of the issues of a floating time system whether it be weeks or points. Most owners are in their own mind buying the prime weeks but not all can get them. Marriott has this same problem highlighted by their Maui property which is Platinum time year round but no where equal demand for each week. This allows systems to actually sell more weeks at higher prices.

[Maistre Gracey]

This illustrates one of the issues of a floating time system whether it be weeks or points. Most owners are in their own mind buying the prime weeks but not all can get them. Marriott has this same problem highlighted by their Maui property which is Platinum time year round but no where equal demand for each week. This allows systems to actually sell more weeks at higher prices.
I have no idea about Marriott or other non DVC systems, but I hope you're not suggesting that DVC sells "more weeks at higher prices".
Of course within the DVC system the more popular times will indeed cost more money, but the less popular times will cost less.

I know you are aware of this, but I think it's noteworthy for some readers. :smokin:

MG

[Dean]

I have no idea about Marriott or other non DVC systems, but I hope you're not suggesting that DVC sells "more weeks at higher prices".
Of course within the DVC system the more popular times will indeed cost more money, but the less popular times will cost less.

I know you are aware of this, but I think it's noteworthy for some readers. :smokin:

MG What I'm saying is that while technically DVC doesn't oversell the resorts, the end effect is that they really do. The demand for all weeks is not the same, even when adjusting for the points difference. And any given buyer has certain times they are expecting to use their points, on average, the higher demand times. So yes, to a degree, DVC is selling lower demand weeks at higher demand prices. My info suggests this is one of the main reasons DVC went with a points system rather than a weeks system. Club Intrawest has always been the master of this method though.

[Maistre Gracey]

What I'm saying is that while technically DVC doesn't oversell the resorts, the end effect is that they really do. The demand for all weeks is not the same, even when adjusting for the points difference. And any given buyer has certain times they are expecting to use their points, on average, the higher demand times. So yes, to a degree, DVC is selling lower demand weeks at higher demand prices. My info suggests this is one of the main reasons DVC went with a points system rather than a weeks system. Club Intrawest has always been the master of this method though.
I couldn't disagree more.
I believe the number of rooms demanded is fairly level across the seasons. Not perfect, but in the ballpark.
Booking Christmas week will cost you more than a week in September, so I'm very confused why you say (paraphrasing) that DVC is selling a September week for what a Christmas week would cost. If you purchase enough points for a Christmas week, then opt to use them in September, you will have points left over for a second trip.
I don't follow your logic on this. :smokin:

MG

[dianeschlicht]

Yep, I think rentals throw off the supply side of the equation - when you can rent a DVC room from a DVC owner for about half of what CRO will charge you, its a bargain - even with the additional risks (cancellation policy, private party).

But other factors are at play here as well - DVC member cruises move a heck (that was a different word, but I'll end up with little stars) of a lot of points over to CRO. Not that member cruises aren't really nice, but they don't help a glut of points sitting on the CRO side.

I totally agree with you and Deb and Bill. I think everyone who rents for such ridculously low per point costs are effecting a lot of things, including turning DVC resorts into value resorts. Not exactly what we all had in mind when we purchased.

[crisi]

Do they ever return unrented points to DVC? If it was within a week and still not rented out I was wondering if they ever make them available to be rented by DVC owners.:confused3

We aren't SURE, but we think that rooms that go in as breakage (i.e. not rented 60 days out) can be reclaimed. Obviously, if you are waiting for a room now for December, there isn't going to be breakage inventory to return. We THINK that rooms that go over to CRO in trades cannot be returned and that developer points cannot be claimed by DVC for rentals - even if they sit empty because CRO can't rent them. I've heard a story about a room that we THINK may have been maintenance inventory getting reclaimed under emergency circumstances (the room was obviously in poor repair and the member had been previously told the resort was full before the room magically appeared - but as I recall there was a sick child or something involved that they needed the extra night for).

You can look at CRO rooms that have been sold to CRO a little like if you sold your car to the neighbor. Maybe they go on vacation Sunday and don't need the car the very week your breaks on Monday and will be in the shop for two days, but you can't just go drive your old car - it isn't yours any longer.

[Dean]

I couldn't disagree more.
I believe the number of rooms demanded is fairly level across the seasons. Not perfect, but in the ballpark.
Booking Christmas week will cost you more than a week in September, so I'm very confused why you say (paraphrasing) that DVC is selling a September week for what a Christmas week would cost. If you purchase enough points for a Christmas week, then opt to use them in September, you will have points left over for a second trip.
I don't follow your logic on this. :smokin:

MGI responded this AM but guess it didn't go through. We certainly disagree. The demand is not at all even in spite of the points differences. Such is the nature of any points or floating weeks system. If enough people buy looking at higher demand times compared to those looking at lower demand times, the system is in effect oversold for those times even if not so for the entire year. And I feel that applies directly to DVC as well. HH is the most egregious example.

[spiceycat]

yes Dean - but I like floating weeks.

you just have to make your reservation at 11 months before, or like my other one - one year and a week before.

then you generally don't have a problem.

now I have a fixed week too - hate it. Charged the same maintence fees no matter what the week (which is highly unfair). and some places even charge studio the same as a 2-bedroom. There is nothing fair about a fixed week system.

love my floating weeks and points system!!!!

[Maistre Gracey]

If enough people buy looking at higher demand times compared to those looking at lower demand times, the system is in effect oversold for those times even if not so for the entire year.
When I purchased it was made abundantly clear that reservations were first come first served, and there may be times when there's no room at the inn.

I don't see how that's effectively oversold, but I will agree to disagree. :smokin:

MG

[Dean]

yes Dean - but I like floating weeks.

you just have to make your reservation at 11 months before, or like my other one - one year and a week before.

then you generally don't have a problem.

now I have a fixed week too - hate it. Charged the same maintence fees no matter what the week (which is highly unfair). and some places even charge studio the same as a 2-bedroom. There is nothing fair about a fixed week system.

love my floating weeks and points system!!!!No argument there are advantages and disadvantages. Still, it allows the system to sell every week or point like it's the best one within the season in question. I'm not complaining, just stating that's the way it is. And given that there are winners and losers within these systems, I always strive to put myself in a position to be one of the winners.

Fixed weeks certainly are a different system, also with advantages and disadvantages. The maintenance is the same for higher demand weeks and lower ones so it makes sense the fees should be the same as well. It does make a higher demand week a better value in many cases though. Maint fees are usually the same for floating weeks as well. About the only time they're different is for points systems where there is some type of formula. With Bluegreen this has worked to my advantage where he fees on the points are actually about 2/3 the fees on the underlying weeks that secure them.

[swim-mom]

I am going down on 9/18 and would have loved to stay at BWV, BUT there were no rooms (2bd) so I was on the wait list.

And Nothing came through, so I am stuck at OKW.................but I have a room still and still going, the idea is being able to go to Disney when you want. The hotel may not be ideal, but I assure all of you it will still be magical :)

I love my DVC, and hope that it will never change!!

But I would have loved another resort too :)

[Deb & Bill]

swim-mom, you are NEVER stuck at OKW. You are lucky to get OKW because it is a fabulous resort.

[swim-mom]

swim-mom, you are NEVER stuck at OKW. You are lucky to get OKW because it is a fabulous resort.

For the past 10 years we have only stayed at the WL, and with 4 children and an exchange student the closeness to everything at WL was wonderful.

The last time we stayed at OKW was 15 years ago, and then it was just so FAR from everything.

Which is why I said stuck, you are right though after this trip we may just fall in love with OKW!!!

Sorry for the confusion :)

[Deb & Bill]

No confusion, just an OKW fan. :thumbsup2 What's so nice about OKW is that you actually get to take a break from all the racing around. It's a very relaxing place to stay and bus service to everywhere has never been bad.

[Mtnman44]

This is why I believe that the whole personal renting thing is destined to be ended at some point by DVC. I just can't see it continuing as they are shooting themselves in the foot. Look for either much tighter restrictions or possibly some kind of program by which DVC will buy some points back from the member. This will allow them to dry up the private point rental market and charge what they want to cash renters.

Yep, I think rentals throw off the supply side of the equation - when you can rent a DVC room from a DVC owner for about half of what CRO will charge you, its a bargain - even with the additional risks (cancellation policy, private party).

But other factors are at play here as well - DVC member cruises move a heck (that was a different word, but I'll end up with little stars) of a lot of points over to CRO. Not that member cruises aren't really nice, but they don't help a glut of points sitting on the CRO side.

[dianeschlicht]

I am going down on 9/18 and would have loved to stay at BWV, BUT there were no rooms (2bd) so I was on the wait list.

And Nothing came through, so I am stuck at OKW.................but I have a room still and still going, the idea is being able to go to Disney when you want. The hotel may not be ideal, but I assure all of you it will still be magical :)

I love my DVC, and hope that it will never change!!

But I would have loved another resort too :)

STUCK at OKW????? I LOVE OKW! THe rooms are larger and brighter, and ther transportation is good. Don't knock what you haven't tried. I don't like BWV either, but I still wouldn't think of it as "being stuck" there if it was all I could get.