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Cruella 66
09-02-2007, 06:40 PM
We just completed our first cruise. While there I stumbled across the art gallery and fell in love with a Tigger cel. My husband and I bought it and they said they'd send it to us with 'five free pieces of art'. I believe they are just lithographs. Upon arriving home I did some internet research and I'm NOT finding anything good about this company or its repuation :mad: . Has anyone purchased from the art auctions at sea on the Wonder or Magic? We were on the Wonder. If so...please tell me good:) or bad :mad: how was your experience? The head guy was supposedly a retired Master Chief in the Navy and my husband is also a retired Chief and he (the sales guy) really played on that. I can't wait to hear from you all....Cindy

dahuffy
09-02-2007, 07:39 PM
All I know is they were a bit "rich" for my blood!

pfp258
09-02-2007, 08:38 PM
Useless, expensive and wish Disney would get rid of them. (How many families are really there to buy Rembrandt sketches for thousands of dollars?) I don't imagine too many real art collectors are sailing on the Disney Cruise Line to add to their art collections.

Dizzyworld
09-02-2007, 09:31 PM
Useless, expensive and wish Disney would get rid of them. (How many families are really there to buy Rembrandt sketches for thousands of dollars?) I don't imagine too many real art collectors are sailing on the Disney Cruise Line to add to their art collections.

I feel the same way as you do. It seems out of place for Disney. On the other hand their was a piece with Mickey and Minnie that I was really interested in. I decided against it thinking "I could do better." This week, our fisrt week back, I went searching, and so have found that I can't get it anywhere else and the prices were consisent with what I could get on board.

Just enjoy your piece. I hope it brings you many happy memories.:goodvibes

mr.b
09-02-2007, 10:02 PM
My wife and I attended an art auction on one of our Disney cruises. We managed to 'win' a piece of art....basically a choice out of 4 or 5 very ugly pictures that I wouldn't hang in an outhouse. They were repulsive looking. All we had to do was pay (I think?) $39.95 to have it shipped to us in a tube. They would not let us just take it. We told them to keep their precious art. Our digital camera gave us all the 'art' we need to hang on our walls. I wish they'd make these art dealers walk the plank on Pirate Night.:sad2:

nordkin
09-02-2007, 10:35 PM
We have two pieces we bought from them on the Panama Canl cruise in 05 and love both pieces. They were shipped to use in a wooden crate and we received them about six weeks after the cruise. The two pieces we purchased were not Disney themed, but we have recieved nothingbut compliments on the pieces. We purchased the paintings because we liked them, had independent appraisals done after we received them, and they appraised for far more than we paid.

Married_A_Disney_Nut
09-02-2007, 11:06 PM
I never really "got" the whole art thing on the ship. The only stuff that would seem to be consistent with the cruise would be Don "Ducky" Williams' art. Having said that, it is a rather small hallway and I'm not sure what else the space could be used for.

Speaking of wasted space, how about the "bar" in Studio Sea ?

tinkerone
09-02-2007, 11:11 PM
so tell me how this art auction works. i saw it listed on a bunch of navagators but did not understand if it was in one of the rooms, all over the ship, if you made an appointment,if it was silent bidding or what.:confused3 was it disney art, other stuff, or a mix of both. also i thought i saw somewhere that there were free drinks if you went somewhere for this at some point in time. explain it all so next time i'll know, please and thank you.:flower3:

Married_A_Disney_Nut
09-02-2007, 11:22 PM
The actual auctions take place in the main lobby atrium in front of Lumiere's.
It is standard auction format with a fast-talking auctioneer and people holding up bidder cards. It's all very friendly and non-threatening.

My wife sits in the audience just to get the free martini's. You can just hang around the lobby and the drink ladys walk around for your drinking pleasure.

tinkerone
09-02-2007, 11:28 PM
The actual auctions take place in the main lobby atrium in front of Lumiere's.
It is standard auction format with a fast-talking auctioneer and people holding up bidder cards. It's all very friendly and non-threatening.

My wife sits in the audience just to get the free martini's. You can just hang around the lobby and the drink ladys walk around for your drinking pleasure.


hmmmm...going may not be a good idea. a few of those martinis and i may be holding up a bidding card.:lmao:
so is it usually last evening or something?

justmestace
09-02-2007, 11:29 PM
We just completed our first cruise. While there I stumbled across the art gallery and fell in love with a Tigger cel. My husband and I bought it and they said they'd send it to us with 'five free pieces of art'. I believe they are just lithographs. Upon arriving home I did some internet research and I'm NOT finding anything good about this company or its repuation :mad: . Has anyone purchased from the art auctions at sea on the Wonder or Magic? We were on the Wonder. If so...please tell me good:) or bad :mad: how was your experience? The head guy was supposedly a retired Master Chief in the Navy and my husband is also a retired Chief and he (the sales guy) really played on that. I can't wait to hear from you all....Cindy


We have bought pieces, all Disney art..and won a few....on DCL, Princess and Norwegian cruises and have never had a problem with our items arriving. They DO take a long time to arrive though.
All of our items were bought through Park West. I have heard of the trouble people have had lately with one company but it wasn't Park West, don't know if the two are connected. We bought our last one over a year ago, and I think the trouble people are having is more recent. I don't think I'll be buying anything on our cruise coming up this December, I'm worried about what I've heard.
I really hope that you don't have a problem receiving your cell. Sorry I wasn't much help to you.

Married_A_Disney_Nut
09-02-2007, 11:32 PM
so is it usually last evening or something?

On the 14 day there were about 3 different auction days I think. Usually around 2pm or so.

SueEllen
09-03-2007, 10:02 AM
I will offer you a tip. KNOW YOUR ART PRICES if you are considering bidding on any of their auction pieces. They greatly inflate the values of the artwork and often times you can purchase it directly from an art gallery for less.

I was not impressed with them or their prices.
Sue Ellen

Cruella 66
09-03-2007, 01:25 PM
On our cruise (a three day Wonder cruise) there was an auction the last afternoon but nobody showed so they didn't have it; they may have had an earlier one but I don't know. They did bring around the free martini's though; we declined but they looked good. We purchased the cel outright, the day before the auction, as it caught my eye passing through that hall, so were just going to the auction as voyagers. Yes, Sue Ellen, I do take your advice and will follow it in the future! Actually, we had stayed at the Poly for eight days before the cruise and they had an art gallery, Wyland Galleries, in the lobby there too. We had stopped in there, talked with an associate about a couple pieces we admired, our daughter bought a pair of earrings, and we're still in contact with them about those pieces; we haven't purchased yet...still considering. Going on that experience; we just trusted the fact that we were on a Disney property and surely they wouldn't let shysters aboard??? It didn't even occur to us until we got home and I started investigating the company. Then, bells and whistles started going off. I'll let you all know how it turns out. The cel also had a pencil drawing beneath it of the cel...don't know if that would affect the value or not. Cindy

jdkdorn
09-03-2007, 04:19 PM
We did the auctions when we sailed on the Magic last February and found that the company deserves all the bad web reviews. We bib on a print of a Paris scene and some Disney memorabilia. The Disney stuff came out fine but the Paris print was supposed to be framed and matted before being sent. It was sent to us in a used, dented and chipped frame. the mat was used, dirty and riped, and the glass over the print was plastic and very very thin. We has a quote on the re-framing and it would have cost us $300 or more to do properly. They also tell you they will give you appraisals for insurance but what they don't tell you is that they do the appraisal, not an independent appraiser. My insurance would not accept them because they were not certified art appraiser.

We will not go to them again and I wish Disney would sell their own art and leave the rest off the ship, it is really not "Disney" to have that type of behavior and reputation.

Judy

webray
09-03-2007, 05:17 PM
We bought several (well ok, more than several, lol) pieces from them and we had a great experience. The auctions were a lot of fun, the pieces were shipped/framed and arrived as described they would be.

No complaints here.

Remember..all art is in the eye of the beholder, they have things ranging from the low $100s to six figures for auction. You bid as you see fit and are comfortable with. If you don't know what you are bidding on, then there is the internet cafe on board the ship..go and google what you are looking at. Get and idea of price, etc and you are good to go. No one ever has to bid blindly on anything.

webray
09-03-2007, 05:18 PM
Useless, expensive and wish Disney would get rid of them. (How many families are really there to buy Rembrandt sketches for thousands of dollars?) I don't imagine too many real art collectors are sailing on the Disney Cruise Line to add to their art collections.

Plenty of art collectors sail Disney...plenty!

webray
09-03-2007, 05:21 PM
We will not go to them again and I wish Disney would sell their own art and leave the rest off the ship, it is really not "Disney" to have that type of behavior and reputation.

Judy


I hope you contacted Park West directly to resolve the issue and get your picture replaced.

I have purchased many items on the ship, and at the Wyland galleries on disney property. I have recieved many damaged pieces from the Wyland gallery, they always make good, as I am sure park west would. We have never received anything in poor condition from Park West.

tinkerone
09-03-2007, 05:59 PM
well i'll be going to an auction! a free martini is hard to come by:rotfl2: .
can you say 'more'.

Cruella 66
09-03-2007, 06:07 PM
Thank you for sharing Cheryl! And Tinkerone...the martinis were HUGE!:thumbsup2

tinkerone
09-03-2007, 07:14 PM
Thank you for sharing Cheryl! And Tinkerone...the martinis were HUGE!:thumbsup2

so what your saying is nappy time when i'm done?:lmao:

Cruella 66
09-03-2007, 07:25 PM
:rotfl2: Either that or :coffee:

4 mickey
09-03-2007, 07:43 PM
Hi
We bought our last two cruises 2 pieces from park west and let me tell you that our's were no rip off my DH checked the pieces he bought while on the magic and if bought elsewere they would ( pieces ) have cost a FEW hundreds $ more :thumbsup2 and yhey are very professional the items came all in perfect condition with lot's of padding ( bubble plastic ) inside the boxes ,
We will buy again in november if they're selling one little thing though it took a few weeks to get the pieces .
So to original poster don't worry !

justhat
09-03-2007, 10:08 PM
I agree with everything Webray has said! We have bought numerous pieces of art on DCL (as well as Princess and Celebrity) and have had nothing but great experiences. We are true art collectors and we do sail DCL because we love it and so do our kids. Our first cruise with DCL did not have Park West onboard and it was an experience we truely missed from other cruise lines.

And it's not just us, we saw several people purchasing pricey pieces, particularly the Willardson Disney stuff, so I'm sure they do okay.

Cruella66, we have bought several pieces from the same Park West auctioneers you're speaking of (the retired military man and his wife, I don't think I can say their names since I guess they are kinda CMs, but they are great people) and we love them! The Magic had other Park West auctioneers on our Med cruise this summer and we really missed the other 2. They were still okay, but the military man gives you a better price (ask for his "A" price if you're not sure, it's the absolute lowest they're allowed to sell for) and they knew a ton about their art.

So I would not worry at all about your art, Cruella. It will come, and be totally fine, and if anything is wrong with it Park West will definitely take care of it for you without hesitation. And your auctioneer is a really great, honest guy. I'm sure you have got a great deal on your art!

ibela
09-04-2007, 11:15 AM
Just wanted to add that we bought from Park West on another cruise line and thought the process was great. Bought a kind of pricey piece which we researched after the fact and we DID get a good deal. I think ours took about 8 weeks to receive, we had an issue with the frame on 1, called them, sent it back to them (at their cost) and they sent it back and all was timely with no issues.

Agree with a previous poster, art is very much a "beauty in the eye of the beholder" so if you liked it enough to buy it, enjoy once you get it. Don't hesitate to call them with any issues, just be patient b/c from what I recall their customer service required some patience . . . :goodvibes

nokidz
09-04-2007, 01:38 PM
they had a few nice disney prints that we were interested in but they were way to much for us. Couldnt justify the cost. We put that money into another cruise. I would be more interested in the disney cells instead of the art that they had.

Empress Room
09-04-2007, 01:55 PM
Although I cannot comment on the actual onboard experience of purchasing auctioned art, I will say that I live here in Michigan where Park West Gallery is headquartered. The company has an extremely good reputation and has been in business for many years, is located in a very nice upscale suburb, its physical gallery is impressive and the owner is a well-regarded community-involved charitable guy.

Having said that, it does seem to be a pretty odd "tradition" with cruise lines selling art and have never purchased.

din
09-04-2007, 02:49 PM
they had a few nice disney prints that we were interested in but they were way to much for us. Couldnt justify the cost. We put that money into another cruise. I would be more interested in the disney cells instead of the art that they had.

Years ago in the Disney Stores, when it was owned by Disney, used to sell cells, both reproduction and original. Did not get any at that time, and now I have a hard time trying to locate one, and the prices now... :rolleyes1

As for the prices, it is not different that the prices that you see at DTD in WDW or in the parks. I like to echo what has been mentioned, "beauty in the eye of the beholder". We have a Don Williams drawing, Grumpy, and when we were framing it, the framer said something interesting, "the value of the art is what you determine and not what other people say it is".

We have a few pieces from the cruise and parks and we enjoy looking at it. :)

ch10dad
09-04-2007, 03:15 PM
I wouldn't worry about "Disney art" as it seems to handled and usually shipped from Disney themselves. Unless you got into a bidding war with someone you probably got it for a fair price.

As far as the work of others, you might want to have an idea of what you're looking at before you buy... Like anything else, it's worth what you're willing to pay for it...

frank2271
09-04-2007, 03:29 PM
Well, on our last cruise my wife and I purchased three pieces from the auction totaling over $5000.00. My wife and I were very excited about the art, they were all Disney related and we loved them. The auction rep. told us before the auction that they were "bargains" and are worth much more than what they will sell for.

Well, when we got home I did a little research on them and found that the same pieces of art were selling at the "Art of Disney" stores for hundreds less. I was furious, I wrote letters to DCL and Park West. I explained how I didn't appreciate being lied to on my cruise and I expected DCL to step in and fix this. Well I was contacted very quickly by a DCL rep. and she appologized and gave me a choice of purchasing the art at the "Art of Disney" prices or cancelling the purchase. I told her to cancel it because I didn't want anything on my walls to remind my of how I was taken advantage of on my Disney Cruise. She said she understood and cancelled the sale.

I will stay clear from Park West on my next cruise.

Frank

5infam
09-04-2007, 11:01 PM
I have bought several pieces from Park West on another cruise line. Bottom line is, know what you are buying, and if it is cheap (under a $100 or $200) and you like it, don't worry about the price and enjoy it. Park West does have some deals, but most of their art is private, meaning they have an artist create something for them, usually in larger quantities than normal, and they are the only ones that can sell it. This way, there is no good way to price match. Some of their pieces are way over priced, some are deals, but it is hard to tell if you can't compare. I bought a Romero Britto on our last cruise - who is an artist that we collect. Usually, his prints on paper are in quantites of 300 or less - through Park West the painting was quantitied at 750. When I came home, I went through my local dealer (they own about 15 art galleries) to see what it would have cost me through him. It turned out that Park West was the only one that sold them, but my guy could get it for me - at double what I paid through Park West. I also checked with Britto directly (his gallery is in South Beach), and they didn't sell them there either. The dealer at Britto did warn me that Park West does sell some Britto items for double what you can get at the South Beach gallery.

Bottom line is beware and know what you are buying. It could be a fair deal or could be a rip off - similar to buying a car blind, without price shoping. In the end, my Britto was great, but we paid a lot to frame all of the so called "free art" we got. My wife liked the free stuff, and the framing was actually decent, so it was ok, but I wouldn't do it again.

Michelle_R
09-05-2007, 05:18 PM
I Googled Don 'Ducky' Williams and his web site is under construction. I can't seem to find his work any where else. Any ideas? :confused3

Michelle

inkkognito
09-05-2007, 06:46 PM
His prints are often on Ebay. When I got home from the transatlantic, I discovered that one I have been watching for forever was auctioned on Ebey while I was gone.

Michelle_R
09-05-2007, 07:20 PM
I already tried ebay and they only had one up. Thanks for the suggestion though. I'll keep checking his website and ebay from time to time.

Michelle

Peggy Jean
09-05-2007, 07:29 PM
We were on the 7/22/06 Magic cruise and ended up buying 3 pieces of art from Park West at the auction. It really was quite fun that my whole family got into. DH REALLY wanted the "Mickey Policeman" by Willardson, being a cop himself, I fell in love with a Hua Chen that I thought "would go great in our living room". Then we got a Kincade for my sister to give to her at Christmas, since he is her favorite. DS, 19 at the time got a great pic of a scene of the Flat Iron building in NY, can't remember the artist. All our pieces came beautifully framed, well packed and fulfilled what we wanted. We liked them, bought them and find them pleasing to look at.

So this summer while onboard the Wonder, we bought another Hua Chen to go with "Yolanda" as I felt she was 'lonely':rotfl: I can't wait to get her!

I can also vouch that any time I called Park West, my call was handled very politely and professionally.

MCourtney
09-05-2007, 08:17 PM
I bought a Romero Britto on our last cruise - who is an artist that we collect

I also am a HUGE Britto fan - met him a few years ago when he came to Tampa (did you know he gave up being an attorney to be an artist? wise decision, wish I could draw :rotfl2: ). Anyway thanks so much for the info. On our last cruise, there was a great Britto piece I loved, but I also thought the price was high, so I didn't get it. I also looked around for it when I got back and couldn't find it anywhere.... now I know why. We sail again Saturday :cool1: , and I am now better informed, thanks.... :thumbsup2

5infam
09-05-2007, 11:36 PM
In January, Park West had 5 Britto's they were offering. There was another passenger that bought all 5. They are actually not badly priced, but there is a bit of a trick that I picked up on. The ship I was on (not DCL) had the auction room packed with the art and it all was numbered for viewing before the auction. There were some artists that we asked about (like Britto) that they didn't even have out, but they did offer. For the most part, people were checking off what they wanted them to show in the auction and/or were negotiating prices up front. If they felt you were serious, but you said no to the first price, they would keep coming back to you with lower offers. Sometimes 2 or 3 times - then give you the rock bottom price. We got our Britto by making an offer below their supposed rock bottom price. They accepted it - but still put it up for auction. Funny thing is that when my piece came up - they said they only had one and it was a set price for whoever raised their paddle first. I didn't even get my paddle up and he called my number and that ended it. Basically - they had many more they could have sold, but they weren't going to sell them at that price. Now mind you - I know they made good money - but at least it wasn't crazy overpriced. They make it feel like a regular auction, but some prices are negotiated ahead of time. Just something to think about if you see something you really want on board. Just remember that it is fun and if you like the art, and enjoy it, all id good. When people come to the house and comment on a piece we got at teh auction; there is a good story to tell and it always reminds us of the fun we had on the cruise - so in the end it worked for us. Enjoy!!:)

justhat
09-06-2007, 06:24 AM
Along the same lines, very little of what we bought on DCL was actually at the auctions. On other cruises we just bought at the auction, when the auctioneer had told us the price beforehand. But with DCL, we were either doing something else during the actual auctions, or Flounder's Reef was closed so we had our 2 very young kids who did not like sitting through the auction. So we just bought stuff when walking through the gallery.

MCourtney
09-06-2007, 06:25 AM
Thanks a ton! :goodvibes

goofy4tink
09-06-2007, 07:27 AM
The actual auctions take place in the main lobby atrium in front of Lumiere's.
It is standard auction format with a fast-talking auctioneer and people holding up bidder cards. It's all very friendly and non-threatening.

My wife sits in the audience just to get the free martini's. You can just hang around the lobby and the drink ladys walk around for your drinking pleasure.

So, I guess I should have gone down to the lobby instead of watching the auction from above!!! I'll know better the next time.

Michelle_R
09-06-2007, 12:16 PM
What are some other artists that do Disney theme paintings? More specific, which ones have work that is available on the cruise? I just thought I'd try to do some homework before the cruise in case there is anything onboard that interests me.
Also, what kind of price ranges do they fall in?
I just love the Disboard! :love:

Michelle

ch10dad
09-06-2007, 01:21 PM
What are some other artists that do Disney theme paintings? More specific, which ones have work that is available on the cruise? I just thought I'd try to do some homework before the cruise in case there is anything onboard that interests me.
Also, what kind of price ranges do they fall in?
I just love the Disboard! :love:

Michelle

There will probably be some Peter Max work there. It starts at "extremely high" and goes higher...:goodvibes

Cruella 66
09-06-2007, 06:28 PM
I'm a newby at this but they did have TONS of Max there, I know that. They had a Kinkade and some animation work. I don't remember seeing any Britto that was mentioned earlier. Anyone else have any names? I have the Auciotns at Sea catalog but there are tons of names from old masters to more contemporary artists....Britto and Max both are featured. I'm glad this thread has opened such an informative dialog...both good and bad. :banana: Cindy

Mom323
09-06-2007, 06:42 PM
What are some other artists that do Disney theme paintings? More specific, which ones have work that is available on the cruise? I just thought I'd try to do some homework before the cruise in case there is anything onboard that interests me.
Also, what kind of price ranges do they fall in?
I just love the Disboard! :love:

Michelle

You can go to their website

http://sales.parkwestgallery.com/Default.aspx

click on Art Collections, choose Selections from the Park West Collections

View titles by artist: Animation Art

This will give you alist of art available

MCourtney
09-06-2007, 06:49 PM
There will probably be some Peter Max work there. It starts at "extremely high" and goes higher...:goodvibes

Yep... fan of his too. And Warhol and Lichtenstein...:goodvibes

5infam
09-06-2007, 08:53 PM
Great point about looking at their website. keep in mind, just because they don't show it on the pre-auction or at the actual auction, doesn't mean they don't sell it. Agam is another artist that is pretty well known as well - but his pieces are pricey too, but they offer them. If you don't see what you want, ask them and they can show it on their laptops, or they may even have a sample in storage on the boat.

Kadorto
09-06-2007, 11:09 PM
:sad1: We were on the 7/22/06 Magic cruise and ended up buying 3 pieces of art from Park West at the auction. It really was quite fun that my whole family got into. DH REALLY wanted the "Mickey Policeman" by Willardson, being a cop himself, I fell in love with a Hua Chen that I thought "would go great in our living room". Then we got a Kincade for my sister to give to her at Christmas, since he is her favorite. DS, 19 at the time got a great pic of a scene of the Flat Iron building in NY, can't remember the artist. All our pieces came beautifully framed, well packed and fulfilled what we wanted. We liked them, bought them and find them pleasing to look at.

So this summer while onboard the Wonder, we bought another Hua Chen to go with "Yolanda" as I felt she was 'lonely':rotfl: I can't wait to get her!

I can also vouch that any time I called Park West, my call was handled very politely and professionally.


I hope he ended up buying that willardson piece...I've been looking for it for some time with no luck. :sad1:

As you can tell...I'm a big fan

Mom323
09-07-2007, 10:15 AM
:sad1:


I hope he ended up buying that willardson piece...I've been looking for it for some time with no luck. :sad1:

As you can tell...I'm a big fan

Is this it?

http://www.animationusa.com/general/willardson/dw02.html

din
09-07-2007, 10:16 AM
:sad1:


I hope he ended up buying that willardson piece...I've been looking for it for some time with no luck. :sad1:

As you can tell...I'm a big fan


We love our Willardson, always brings a smile when we look at it. On our last crusie there a a Willardson orignal, Flower from Bambi. It was fantastic!! and not to bad a price considering it is an original.

din
09-07-2007, 10:22 AM
What are some other artists that do Disney theme paintings? More specific, which ones have work that is available on the cruise? I just thought I'd try to do some homework before the cruise in case there is anything onboard that interests me.
Also, what kind of price ranges do they fall in?
I just love the Disboard! :love:

Michelle

We have seen prices from about $150 to $75K. They also have several sports memorabilia, like Mohamad Ali signed gloves with the Olympic tickets (where he won the gold medal) in a frame or Thiesman autographed football.

Kadorto
09-07-2007, 01:20 PM
Is this it?

http://www.animationusa.com/general/willardson/dw02.html


That's it...and thats the only site I can find that has it listed. However..The site will not allow me make a online purchase and when I called them..the phone number was no longer in service...Not a good sign. Thanks for checking though :)

The search goes on... :(

justhat
09-07-2007, 01:55 PM
What are some other artists that do Disney theme paintings? More specific, which ones have work that is available on the cruise? I just thought I'd try to do some homework before the cruise in case there is anything onboard that interests me.
Also, what kind of price ranges do they fall in?
I just love the Disboard! :love:

Michelle

Salvador Dali teamed up with Walt Disney and did some pieces that were for sale on both the Magic and Wonder this summer. Very nice, but I'm sure they were pretty spendy too.

Weegl
09-07-2007, 02:07 PM
We've bought from Park West before (3 pieces or so) and never had a problem. My opinion on the auctions is: go if you want to, stay away of you don't...you're not obliged to take part.

I will stress though that you should NEVER buy if you are doing so as an investment. Buy only if you like the piece and want to live with it. Most people do not have the experience and knowledge necessary to buy art for investment purposes and should not listen to the "auctioneer" when they play that card.

Peggy Jean
09-07-2007, 03:34 PM
:sad1:


I hope he ended up buying that willardson piece...I've been looking for it for some time with no luck. :sad1:

As you can tell...I'm a big fan

Yes he did, but we waited. There was to be a drawing for $500 towards a purchase and it was to be drawn on the second auction day. They knew my hubby really wanted it but wasn't willing to pay the asking price. And we'd already purchased the other 2 pieces. ODDLY enough my husband "won" the $500 drawing :cool1: and bought the piece. He absolutely loves it. We're moving to a new home next week and we can't wait to showcase it, we've talked extensively about where to put it. Found just the right spot.

din
09-07-2007, 04:33 PM
Yes he did, but we waited. There was to be a drawing for $500 towards a purchase and it was to be drawn on the second auction day. They knew my hubby really wanted it but wasn't willing to pay the asking price. And we'd already purchased the other 2 pieces. ODDLY enough my husband "won" the $500 drawing :cool1: and bought the piece. He absolutely loves it. We're moving to a new home next week and we can't wait to showcase it, we've talked extensively about where to put it. Found just the right spot.

Enjoy it!!

Cruella 66
09-07-2007, 08:26 PM
We got in the mail the other day a tube with our five free pieces 'of art'. I guess lithographs...doubt they'll be framed. I did, however go to the web page and found animation art simular to what we bought but we paid 1/2 the web site price. Cindy

stingmom
09-07-2007, 08:36 PM
The Disney art pieces are not exclusive to DCL either. We cruised on Royal Caribbean last year and they all the same pieces of art on each cruise from Park West (Disney and others) and we saw them all again our DCL trips. Same old posters, same high prices!

Kadorto
09-07-2007, 11:45 PM
Yes he did, but we waited. There was to be a drawing for $500 towards a purchase and it was to be drawn on the second auction day. They knew my hubby really wanted it but wasn't willing to pay the asking price. And we'd already purchased the other 2 pieces. ODDLY enough my husband "won" the $500 drawing :cool1: and bought the piece. He absolutely loves it. We're moving to a new home next week and we can't wait to showcase it, we've talked extensively about where to put it. Found just the right spot.


Wow! Congratulations to you both...it's a great piece and I'm sure you'll enjoy it. On the other hand...if you ever get tired of it..be sure to send me a PM. ;)

"Got Disney"
09-08-2007, 12:45 AM
We have purchased art fr0m many galleries thr0ugh0ut the years. We have als0 purchased at least $25,000 fr0m Park west and have had n0thing but g00d luck with them.

We have ab0ut $100,000 in art in 0ur h0me. The art that we purchased 0n the ships have g0ne up in value and we have had a different reputable dealer appraise them.

We recieved 0ur art withing 3 weeks 0f 0ur cruises n0t 8 like s0me have rep0rted. 0ne came damaged we sent it back at n0 charge and it came back repaired.

We are c0llect0rs 0f Fanch s0 we kn0w the c0st 0f his art and ask f0r a private viewing with the dealers bef0re we sail...we ask t0 view only Fanch at the time and didle with the price and purchase bef0re the aucti0ns...they usually 0nly have ab0ut 3 and 0nly 0ne 0f each.

Park west is 0ne 0f the largest art dealers ar0und and sell millions in art.
There are b0und t0 be s0me unhappy pe0ple, We are n0t 0ne 0f them.

We have a friend that has purchaesd $120,000 thr0ugh them and they have 0nly sent 3 paintings back. First 0ff when buying art be sure that y0u l0ve what y0u are buying d0nt purchase f0r pr0fit.

We are sailing again in the summer and plan 0n g0ing t0 the aucti0n...if n0t just because it is fun.

G00d luck and if y0u have any questi0ns feel free t0 PM me:thumbsup2

S0rry by the way my "0" key is busted;)

tinkerbellmom1
09-08-2007, 10:02 AM
Please don't flame me, but we did attend the art auction(s) during our January '07 Eastern Cruise.

I had seen an adorable Pooh picture and DH wanted to entertain the idea of purchasing it for me so we went. We had not idea what to expect, no idea of prices, and just decided to go with an open mind.

During our cruise the auctions were all held in the bar down the hallway from Lumiere's, not in the main corridor. You were able to walk around and look at all the available pieces, talk to the young married couple who were the auctioneers (spelling?) and tag a piece with a sticky note if you wanted it go into the auction. If you liked a piece, you could ask what the prices were, ask what the minimum they would take for the piece, and basically agree to buy it right there before the auction.

DH decided that Pooh wasn't bright and cheerful enough, so he bought me a Tigger by the same artist (David Willardson). We agreed with the auctioneer before hand what the price would be and when it came time for our piece to go up, it went up, we bid and he closed the bid that quick. Woo Hoo! I was thrilled!

Later on in the cruise we went back 2 more times. The second time just to watch and look, the third time to buy 3 more pictures by the same artist (the Disney Fab 5) and then I was a bad girl and bought my DH a 9/11 tribute piece by Peter Max. We purchased 5 pieces all together and those 5 pieces cost as much as our cruise. Yikes! (That's why we have to wait to cruise again until Oct. 08!)

I must say that we are absolutely thrilled with all of the art we purchased! We bought it to use it in our home and all the pieces are very special to us. It took about 8 weeks or so to receive our purchases, and one had a dented frame. Park West arranged to have it picked up, re-framed it, and returned it to us with not problems.

The artwork appraised for about double what we paid Park West and we have since insured it all. It is valuable. When checking similar or identical pieces on E-bay or on other art websites, the price we paid Park West was very reasonable, but not inexpensive by any means. These are not pieces you will find in your neighborhood mall.

One man on our cruise paid more for art than we did for our first home! I'm not kidding! :scared1: Salvador Dali was a big seller on our cruise, so was Rembrandt-we didn't buy those! The Dali pieces were of a unreleased Dali/Walt Disney collaberation. Very interesting!

Bottom line is that we learned alot about certain artists, we purchased pieces that we love and have them hanging in our home, and we have been happy with the experience. And we didn't even try the free martinis! :laughing:

Cruella 66
09-15-2007, 09:27 PM
Our animation art arrived today from Park West via Fedex. It's in a really nice frame that has a little scratch. I LOVE the cell and drawing and I'm going to try to attach a picture of it if I can figure this out. It didn't come with any kind of appraisal or paperwork. Shouldn't it come with some sort of certificate of authenticity or numbers? We still don't know if it's a cell or sericell. I was hoping the paperwork would tell us that. We can't figure out how to put a picture on here...does anyone know how??? :confused: Cindy

101DalmFan
09-15-2007, 10:53 PM
Most people here use Photobucket to store their online photos that they want to post here. So, for a first step, open up an account there :)

http://www.photobucket.com

kidcoos3
09-15-2007, 11:13 PM
Our animation art arrived today from Park West via Fedex. It's in a really nice frame that has a little scratch. I LOVE the cell and drawing and I'm going to try to attach a picture of it if I can figure this out. It didn't come with any kind of appraisal or paperwork. Shouldn't it come with some sort of certificate of authenticity or numbers? We still don't know if it's a cell or sericell. I was hoping the paperwork would tell us that. We can't figure out how to put a picture on here...does anyone know how??? :confused: Cindy

We also just received some pictures that we bought on the 7/28 Med trip. I called about the appraisals and was told that they are shipped from Michigan (Pictures come from Florida) and can be up to a week or two behind the pictures themselves.

justhat
09-16-2007, 07:55 AM
We have always received our certificates separate and after we received our art. Once they accidentally mailed them to my mom's house (we had her address down as we had one piece shipped to her, and somehow all the appraisals did as well) and we didn't know it so we called them and they issued new ones. Of course, my mom later found "mail from Park West" so we realized what happened, but just to let you know that they'll send new ones if for some reason yours don't arrive.

Cruella 66
10-03-2007, 05:49 PM
Well, today in the mail came the certificate of authenticity. It lists the cell as a hand painted production cel with color background and pencil drawing with facsimile signature of Walt Disney. Now they did their own appraisel and it's baasically doubled in value from what we paid. Is this accurate? How do you get the value of a cel? :) Cindy

gmark2000
12-13-2007, 04:31 PM
Latest articles about Park West and their dubious reputation:

Cruise Ship Art Auctions: Disasters at Sea: http://www.consumerama.net/reports/park_west.html (http://www.consumerama.net/reports/park_west.html)

Cruise Ship Art Auction Scams: http://consumerist.com/consumer/consumer-alert/cruise-ship-art-auctions-scams-333427.php (http://consumerist.com/consumer/consumer-alert/cruise-ship-art-auctions-scams-333427.php)

Read the ongoing articles submitted at the Fine Art Registry (http://www.fineartregistry.com/articles/far_investigates/art-auction-investigation.php) website too.

Cruella 66
12-13-2007, 06:50 PM
Thank you so much for posting this information :goodvibes Cindy

gmark2000
12-14-2007, 02:47 PM
I strongly suggest reading the horror stories on the Fine Art Registry website (http://www.fineartregistry.com/articles/far_investigates/art-auction-investigation.php). Essentially once you sign the invoice, you legally have no recourse over verbal misrepresentations made by the sales people.

People have been bullied with non-disclosure terms when dealing with disputes.

The legalese on the contract also permits them to switch merchandise before delivery and makes no claim to the authenticity of the articles. All the certificates of authenticity and appraisals are done 'in-house' and essentially the legalese on the contract absolves them of the veracity of these documents.

Caveat emptor!

umber
12-14-2007, 05:26 PM
I actually really enjoy the auctions even though I have no intent on purchasing anything. It's fun to watch and the free drinks aren't bad.
We did however buy one thing, the original sign from Mr Toad's Wild Ride from WDW. It was so cool to own something like that. It had the chalkboard space where they used to write how long the wait currently was... it was well worn. The sign was massive and unbelievably heavy. Unfortunately it was packed incorrectly and arrived in pieces and we were refunded our money without a hassle. It was a shame that something like that was destroyed. So I wish they'd auction off more items like that, actually relics from the theme parks.
Bottom line, you don't have to go to the auctions if you don't like them, there's planty of other activities. If you do go, enjoy, but don't get caught up in the moment and suffer buyer's remorse later. Know what you're bidding on and stay within your financial comfort zone.

gmark2000
12-14-2007, 07:40 PM
Honestly ,I think that there's more than just buyer's remorse in the cases (did you even read any of the articles?). There's some systematic scamming, fraud, misrepresentation, fleecing and dirty tricks going on. The attempts to muzzle customers with mandatory non-disclosure agreements reeks of malfeasance.

The company is going to court for reported cases of "ghost" bidding (pointing at dead air to bid up the price). There's been suspected shills bidding up prices at auctions even.

How many people have been unknowingly fleeced as part of their vacations? How many don't really want to know the truth because it would ruin their blissful ignorance?

Post purchase cognitive dissonance won't break through to those who really do want to justify their purchases, but in reality this nefarious, shady business should not be allowed to sully Disney's reputation.

Disney has chosen not to have casinos. Shouldn't Park West be next?

gmark2000
12-14-2007, 07:52 PM
I wish they'd auction off more items like that, actually relics from the theme parks.
Disney used to have auctions on eBay for theme park props and such but not any longer. However there are two main vendors are now selling props and surplus: MouseSurplus (http://collectibles.search.ebay.com/_Disneyana_W0QQcatrefZC12QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ3 QQrdZ0QQsacatZ137QQsassZmousesurplusQQsbrsrtZd) and SurplusKingdom (http://collectibles.search.ebay.com/_Disneyana_W0QQcatrefZC12QQfrppZ200QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ 3QQrdZ0QQsacatZ137QQsassZsurpluskingdomQQsbrsrtZd)

justhat
12-19-2007, 04:13 PM
The company is going to court for reported cases of "ghost" bidding (pointing at dead air to bid up the price). There's been suspected shills bidding up prices at auctions even.


Park West video tapes each auction, so any 'ghost bidding' would be seen on there. I could see maybe planting bidders to drive up prices, but I've never actually seen it happen at any Park West auction. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen more than one bidder per piece at a Park West auction on DCL.

rgroves
12-19-2007, 07:56 PM
Park West video tapes each auction, so any 'ghost bidding' would be seen on there. I could see maybe planting bidders to drive up prices, but I've never actually seen it happen at any Park West auction. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen more than one bidder per piece at a Park West auction on DCL.

The video taping on our cruise was just of the auctioneer and the art on display not the audience. So any ghost bidding would not have been caught on tape.

Also, if you look at the art the people on the Fine Art Registry were buying and supposedly got ripped on it was the high end stuff like Dali, Max, Tarkay (sp?), Picaso, etc.. Most of those buying Willardson, Jabobs, Chen, etc... are not complaing (not not very much).

Like has been said many times (and even buy the auctioneers on our cruise) But it because you like it, not because it's a Picaso, or a Dali. This is not supposed to be Investment Art, but some are making it out that way.

We bought an Alexander Chen and won a Marcus Glenn. We're still waiting to receive them (hopefully in about 4 weeks), and while we did purchase Park West's appraisals, we are going to have a 3rd party one done just to see. That and the fact we have lots of other things we probably should have appraised for insurance reasons.

We actually had a great time at the auctions, and we actually missed out on one piece that actually went into a small bidding frenzy. It was a Chen that started at $15 and finally sold for ~ $150. I liked it, and DW sort of liked it, and we just didn't want to go up to $150 on it.

tinkerbellmom1
12-19-2007, 08:30 PM
We purchased 4 Willardson's and 1 Peter Max on our cruise this past January. We were treated with kindness and respect and we were never, ever pushed at all! One piece caught my eye when we first boarded and after looking at all of the pieces, thinking about the purchase, and then attending 3 of the auctions, we are thrilled with every piece we purchased! My Christmas presents this year are hanging on my walls!

One of our pieces was damaged on the frame during shipping, but Park West did exactly what they said they would. They replaced the frame immediately. While we did not recieve the exact pieces we bid on (different lot numbers), we did one better. We received one artist proof! We also had our pieces appraised a second time at the request of our insurance company and the private appraisals came in at very similar values to the Park West Appraisals. We didn't purchase the pieces as investments (as it appeared some buyers were doing at our auctions with the higher end artists). We purchase what we loved and we could not be happier. Park West treated us very well!

I've got about 9 months to wait until our next 'Magic'al cruise and I will attend the auctions again! I never got one of the free cosmo's but I hear they were great! Plus the art is well worth the time!

DAggiesRWe
12-19-2007, 09:33 PM
Well, today in the mail came the certificate of authenticity. It lists the cell as a hand painted production cel with color background and pencil drawing with facsimile signature of Walt Disney. Now they did their own appraisel and it's baasically doubled in value from what we paid. Is this accurate? How do you get the value of a cel? :) Cindy

Well, one easy way to tell whether they are lying to you up front depends on the movie the "production cel" came from.

"The Little Mermaid" was the last movie done with production cel animation, so if the cel is from a feature movie that came out after that, then you know there is a problem. After that, you can get "Original Animation with Production Background" (these tend to cost a lot because there are fewer backgrounds required). The cel will have a small "Walt Disney Company" sticker in the corner, and if you look closely, you should be able to see the original pencil lines under the coloring that guided the original drawings.

There is a good basis for comparison here:

http://www.animationsensations.com/disney_animation.html

We have a production cel from "The Fox and The Hound" that we bought during our 1994 trip that shows Dinky and Boomer. This was the first Disney movie that DW and I saw when we started dating, so the cel holds a lot more sentimental value than the actual price we could get if we wanted to sell it.

rsinj
12-23-2007, 08:55 AM
.

5infam
12-23-2007, 12:43 PM
I don't really ever trust appraisals, and they are mostly used for insurance purposes anyway. You see really high appraisals in jewelry too, that really don't make any sense either.

It is clear to me that there are those that won't go near Park West because they sell overpriced items, and the auction format is not really much of an auction, and there are those that were mislead or at least felt they were mislead. Then there are those that love what they bought and are happy with it, and don't care about the practices. I sort of fall in the middle, but I view them as anyone else that sells things, you need to know what you are doing before you buy. If you spend $20,000 on Dali and have no idea what you are buying, then I can understand you would be very upset when you got home. However, I can't see spending that much money and not knowing what I was getting into, but that's just because it is soo much $$. Park West sells Rembrandt etchings that look cool, but I wouldn't spend any money on them, or at least not what they are asking. As I mentioned here before I bought from Park West, and on my last cruise a few weeks back, I bought again from them. Reason being is that Park West commissions art from certain artists that simply can't be found anywhere else. You can question the value of the art to be certain, but one thing is for sure, it can be almost impossible to get elsewhere. So, I saw something I liked, worked out what I was willing to pay, and bought it. The first time I bought from them, I came home from my trip, researched what I bought, and checked local prices. I found the painting that I bought from Park West from a couple of other dealers - who were both selling it for more than double what I paid Park West. All that meant to me was that my intuitions were correct, and what I bought was reasonable. I have no plans on selling what I bought, so it really just meant that I did OK. I also researched other pieces and found them much cheaper elsewhere, so you really need to know and understand art and the artist. With all that said, I thought I would update you on my buying experiences to assist those that are interested in buying while on your cruise. I enjoy looking at the art while I am there, even if I don't buy, but this may help some future cruisers, so here goes.

1. The auctions really aren't much of what you would expect an auction to be. So I will use that term loosely here. They display the art prior to the auction start. This gives you an opportunity to view what they have that day, and on our 7 night cruise, they had 3 or 4 auctions, mostly with different items each time. If you think you may want to buy something, you can register with Park West (who had very friendly people on DCL, much better than the folks I met on RCL) and they will give you a bidder card and some post-it notes to label any art in the preview. If all you do is put your post it on the art, they will show it during the auction. If you really want to buy it, the trick is in talking to someone at Park West before the auction starts.

2. So, let's say you want to buy something, so you call over one of the folks from PW and ask the price. They basically have a price range in which they will sell the art. They will probably quote the value of the retail or gallery price of the piece and then tell you the starting auction price. By the way, if you don't ask the price at all and just put your post-it on the art, they will bring it up for auction and will start the bidding at the starting auction price, and it will go to the highest bidder. This is really the only time it is like an auction, but this is also the most expensive way to buy.

Now, if you tell them you would like a better price, they may negotiate with you. If you have done some pre-homework, you may have a price in mind. You can try for that price and see what they say (all they can say is no). If you can't agree, no problem, let it go. If you agree, fantastic, they will sell it for that agreed upon price. However, here is where it is a bit strange.

3. So you agreed on a price, but you are not done. What they will do is actually put the item up in the auction and talk about it just like any other auction item. The only difference is they will give a quantity of 1 or maybe multiples of how many they can sell at a set price. Well low and behold, that set price is the price you all agreed upon. So as soon as they say go, you put up your bidder card and the auction is closed immediately. As you can see, there is not much of an auction here, it is simply what you agreed to pay in advance, with an auction flavor.

4. What I have found is what others have stated here, the price can go down as the cruise moves along. On the last cruise, I was quoted the standard auction starting price of $1,650 on day 1. As the days went along, I kept chatting with them and kept passing at the auctions. On the final auction, they came down to $1,400, which is what I was willing to pay, and I bought the piece. Up until the last day, they kept telling me they simply couldn't do it, but what do you know, they had a change of heart on the last day (I am being sarcastic of course). Also, one of them was telling me they couldn't do it for my price, but the other one had agreed on my price with another buyer. Since they have to put it up in the auction, they couldn't sell it to both of us for different prices, so they tried to clean it up by saying that it was a volume discount because 2 of us were buying. I just laughed and said "whatever", my wife wanted the piece, I got my price, all was good. When I was on RCL, they never met my price on one item, so I passed and bought what they did meet my price on.

5. A couple of other pointers -

A. Don't get carried away with the process. Buying art is fun, you can love a piece to death, but it is a financial transaction (like buying a car). Spend what you can afford, and know what you are buying. Don't let your emotions get carried away.

B. Please note that there is a Buyer's Premium of 15%. This means that whatever the auction closes at, they will add 15% to the price, so keep that in mind when considering the final price you will actually pay.

C. Many items include framing, matting and shipping. All in all, I like some of their framing and the pricing is reasonable compared to local stores in my area, and in many cases, the PW framing prices are good deals. Just note that many items come in the frame style and color that they display it in. Which means if you don't like the framing, it will probably cost you more to change it after the auction, so negotiate that up front as well.

D. Lastly, don't be afraid of attending if you enjoy art. I have had fun at these, and I enjoy going. Also, if you make a mistake and buy something, and change your mind, simply don't sign anything and be honest about it. Once the auctions are over, you will set an appointment to handle the payment of your art. If you decide not to buy, tell them, and they will let you go. I have seen them do this with other people, as well as I myself have changed my mind, and bought other things that I wanted instead. It appears to be no big deal, and in the end, I think they do this to keep up good relations with the cruise lines, so passengers aren't complaining about PW. Once you sign however, you are on the hook, so Buyer Beware!!

I hope that helps anyone interested in attending or buying at an auction. Keep in mind that these are my experiences, so if you have something to add that is different, please do so. :)

gmark2000
12-24-2007, 01:39 AM
Excellent points.

This should be mandatory reading for future passengers.

Perhaps Park West has a better rep on DCL versus other cruise lines. I'm sure that not all auctions are shady but just the fact that some are makes one wonder how much revenue DCL gets from this.

AFAIK, Park West has revenues upwards to 600 million dollars a year. Think of what it's worth for the cruise lines.

5infam
12-24-2007, 09:41 AM
That is a lot of revenue!!!! I had no idea, but figured they made a lot of money. I am really curious how much the cruise lines get - is it a piece of each sale, or do they pay some sort of rent? The interesting thing I found on DCL versus Carnival and Royal Caribbean is that DCL auctions had all pretty high priced items. There was not much of anything that was under $500, and most things started above $1,000. On the other ships, there was plenty that started under a $100, and only a 1/3 or so that was above $1,000. I wonder if that is because the DCL charges so much more than the other cruise ships (for what I paid DCL on my last cruise, I could have taken 2 on another line)?

If anyone has additional information to share, it would be helpful to help others make a decision on if and what to buy.

justhat
12-30-2007, 10:20 AM
The video taping on our cruise was just of the auctioneer and the art on display not the audience. So any ghost bidding would not have been caught on tape.

Also, if you look at the art the people on the Fine Art Registry were buying and supposedly got ripped on it was the high end stuff like Dali, Max, Tarkay (sp?), Picaso, etc.. Most of those buying Willardson, Jabobs, Chen, etc... are not complaing (not not very much).

Like has been said many times (and even buy the auctioneers on our cruise) But it because you like it, not because it's a Picaso, or a Dali. This is not supposed to be Investment Art, but some are making it out that way.

We bought an Alexander Chen and won a Marcus Glenn. We're still waiting to receive them (hopefully in about 4 weeks), and while we did purchase Park West's appraisals, we are going to have a 3rd party one done just to see. That and the fact we have lots of other things we probably should have appraised for insurance reasons.

We actually had a great time at the auctions, and we actually missed out on one piece that actually went into a small bidding frenzy. It was a Chen that started at $15 and finally sold for ~ $150. I liked it, and DW sort of liked it, and we just didn't want to go up to $150 on it.


On our cruises, they had the video camera set up in the back of the auction so that it caught the audience as well as the auctioneer and art. Now, I guess they could have still had ghost bidders by saying someone came up behind the camera, but I think that would be hard to pull off more than once. Well, I should say, that was with John and Kremy as the auctioneers. I don't think we actually made it to an auction with Amy and I think Matt? when we were on the Meditteranean cruise, so they might do it differently.

We've bought a couple of Max pieces, a Dali, and a few Tarkeys from Park West, as well as a Willardson original and some much cheaper pieces and have been more than satisifed with each one, that's why I can't figure out all of these complaints. Of course, we don't buy anything for the sake of an investment, but even if we did, we still got good deals and they'll all appreciate so it works out either way.

gmark2000
02-12-2008, 01:12 AM
Bumping up since Inside Edition is featuring these cruise ship art auctions as scams.

Cruella 66
02-12-2008, 05:36 PM
Really...when? :confused3 Cindy