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View Full Version : 2008 DDP Changes-CHANGING EATING HABITS!


twinmom108
08-30-2007, 11:53 AM
We're going to WDW in October 07 and have the DDP. We have enjoyed DDP in the past and will most certainly enjoy it this year too.:thumbsup2

The changes in the DDP for 2008 have made the plan no longer viable for our family so we have considered our options for next year and this is what our family eating plan will be:

Eating two meals per day in our room. DVC studio or 1 bedroom

Eating a maximum of 1X out per day at counter service

NO table service restaurants. (None, Nada, Zippo)

Who else has had to consider changing their eating habits at WDW due to the 2008 DDP changes? What options are you considering?

clkelley
08-30-2007, 12:00 PM
As Passholders, the only time we would consider the DDP is during the free period, and now that we have the camper, hubby will now go to Ft. Wilderness with me, so our 2008 trip will be to Ft. Wilderness, no DDP, eating quick breakfasts at the camper, and our usual 1 TS per day using Disney Dining Experience. We've never actually used the DDP before, first time at Pop Century and first time with DDP in 14 days!!!

n2mm
08-30-2007, 12:31 PM
We love the DDP too, but after our upcoming Oct trip that will be the end of it for us too. Also DVC members, so will opt for a meal or 2 in our rooms and still visit a few of our favorite places to eat using our DDE discount. I guess all good things must end, so we will be enjoying the DDP in October for one last time.

hygienejean
08-30-2007, 12:45 PM
We are doing the DDP this fall but for our next trip in April we will not do it. We will eat more meals in our room. Sad to see it go b/c it was so convenient but for 2008 it has been stripped down too much to make it worth buying. :sad2:

JimMIA
08-30-2007, 12:47 PM
We won't be using DDP going forward.

In the past, we have saved $75-100 on each 4-5 day trip with DDP, and we've enjoyed eating in restaurants we probably would not have tried without DDP. We also enjoyed the convenience of DDP. But for us at least, eliminating the included gratuity killed DDP.

One of the positives about rethinking our eating habits is that we have discovered many fine restaurants offsite. We knew there were some good ones, but we were surprised at the variety and quality available. We always have a car, so on our next trip we look forward to eating dinner offsite every night. We'll probably only do one character meal onsite each trip.

We'll still be eating at least as well as we did on DDP -- just offsite.

We're eligible for DDE, but we won't be eating onsite enough to make it worthwhile.

CS? Naw. We enjoyed the CS meals, but before DDP we never ate lunch in the parks anyway. We either skipped lunch or went back to the resort for lunch/pool/nap time.

Of course, we're still a captive audience as DVC owners. I think the larger question for many will not be DDP/no DDP -- but Onsite with DDP/offsite lodging. That's the bigger question, IMHO.

If I didn't own DVC, I'd be looking at that as well. We don't use Disney transportation anyway; we just find it so quick, easy, and convenient to drive to the parks. If I flew in, I'd rent a car, just for the flexibility and ease of getting around -- and that negates the big "advantage" a lot of visitors see in staying onsite.

anabelle
08-30-2007, 01:12 PM
My DH insists on a Table Service every day. He doesn't care what we eat for breakfast or lunch, but at the end of long day with his commando wife, he wants a nice meal. I loved the fact that it was a budgeted amount of money and I didn't have to worry about what my royal-want-to-be sons ordered. I am considering buying one annual pass so I can do the DDE.

clkelley
08-30-2007, 01:19 PM
I am considering buying one annual pass so I can do the DDE.

ABSOLUTELY do that. Last DDE we had cost $65, we then went on 3 trips with that DDE, and I calculated it, we saved well over $600. Our one 8 night trip in May with 2 adults and 4 adult teenagers, we saved over $300 (and because the young uns weren't always with me at the All-Stars food court, we even missed on about $100 worth of savings.)

Then there is also the potential for savings on the resort.

formernyer
08-30-2007, 02:02 PM
Actually, this will just be our last trip to Disney. We've been there 3 times in the past 18 months (counting the trip next week), but the DDP has spoiled us. The kids and I will no longer enjoy WDW the same if we have to do it without the DDP, and even free DDP will cost too much for us going forward (due to "tips not included"). I'm not too disappointed. We love WDW, but there are plenty of beaches out there with our names written all over them :)

patsal
08-30-2007, 06:34 PM
I will not be changing my eating habits but I will not be purchasing the DDP either in 2008. The pricepoint was good for @$40 per person per day, but more than that, that will include less--and since I have to pay for appetizers and the tip it costs more than $40 per person per day. Honestly, we do not spend $160 per day to eat a TS and CS each day for the four of us. We will go back to eating off site and enjoy the vacation more with day trips to other Florida venues as well. Snacks are not something we usually eat every day, dessert with CS unheard of for us at every CS meal. The only thing we will change is purchasing the DDP--we will pay OOP for the things we purchase and really save money.

refillable mug
08-30-2007, 06:46 PM
If you rent a car the options are many. There are many, many, very good venues for dinner not far off Disney property. We do am-lunch at Disney, but dinner is a much better value off-site.

Alicnwondrln
08-30-2007, 06:49 PM
We're going to WDW in October 07 and have the DDP. We have enjoyed DDP in the past and will most certainly enjoy it this year too.:thumbsup2

The changes in the DDP for 2008 have made the plan no longer viable for our family so we have considered our options for next year and this is what our family eating plan will be:

Eating two meals per day in our room. DVC studio or 1 bedroom

Eating a maximum of 1X out per day at counter service

NO table service restaurants. (None, Nada, Zippo)

Who else has had to consider changing their eating habits at WDW due to the 2008 DDP changes? What options are you considering?

I have the DDE card as well and plan on using that.

lynninpa
08-30-2007, 07:40 PM
Actually, this will just be our last trip to Disney. We've been there 3 times in the past 18 months (counting the trip next week), but the DDP has spoiled us. The kids and I will no longer enjoy WDW the same if we have to do it without the DDP, and even free DDP will cost too much for us going forward (due to "tips not included"). I'm not too disappointed. We love WDW, but there are plenty of beaches out there with our names written all over them :)


"...and even free DDP will cost too much for us going forward (due to "tips not included.") :confused3

Muushka
08-30-2007, 08:09 PM
We are also DVC members. We have only bought the DDP for 4 days last year. And we are getting it free again this year.
We will go back to our old eating habits, which are much better for us anyway! We will eat breakfast in the villa. Will probably eat a dinner or a lunch out, and eat the opposite in the villa. More than likely we will be eating off site.

Not the end of the world, for sure!:thumbsup2

formernyer
08-30-2007, 09:48 PM
"...and even free DDP will cost too much for us going forward (due to "tips not included.") :confused3

What's not to understand? We visit WDW during the free dining promotions...the meals are truly free now, because 18% gratuity is included. Next year they will likely offer the free dining package again; however, this time I'd be expected to pay for the tip OOP. These restaurants are VERY expensive and not places I would normally choose to eat. The gratuity alone would cost more than what I'd normally spend on a meal.

bicker
08-31-2007, 05:29 AM
I haven't considered changing our eating habit. We'll just be changing our paying habits. If we want what we got on the Dining Plan, we'll simply have to pay more. :confused3

SnowWitch
08-31-2007, 06:04 AM
Our trip in Oct will be our 5th on the DDP and we are DVC members however our upcoming trip we are at the Poly with PH and DDP. We have discussed the new dining plans for 2008 and what we have decided is this: During summer trips we will no longer purchase any form of the DDP. It is to hot for that much food and we struggled with that this past June. We will however purchase the Premium dining plan in the cooler months. We decided to do this for 2 reasons. We have grown fond of the 2 TS choices and could utilize one TS for a character meal for breakfast for the little ones and then A (2) TS meal for dinner. I still am a bit disheartened over not having tips included but I also like the freedom to control the amount of tip whereas great service gets a great tip and lousy service will reflect a lousy tip. No more locked in tip.

We will no longer purchase the basic DDP because they have removed the appe and tip and it no longer represents a real value to us. The premium plan will be used on fall/winter trips. Any warm month trips ...we will book a few favorite places for TS and wing it the rest of those trips.

Priorityonecb
08-31-2007, 06:22 AM
We probably won't do the DDP again unless we just happen to go during a free dining period, although we loved it last year. Now we are within driving distance of WDW so it will probably be long weekends instead of 10 day trips. For a long weekend, we will probably just eat one nice TS meal during the weekend...snacking and doing CS the other meals. This won't take away from our enjoyment of WDW, I am just glad we got to experience all those TS we woudn't have without the DDP.

laura001
08-31-2007, 06:40 AM
We will not really change our eating habits, even with the DDP we didn't use all our credits. I can say that I don't foresee us using the DDP after this year, I would think that we would just pay for our meals. We have almost always enjoyed a TS meal everyday, probably half of them as a late lunch, we will continue that.

Our disappointment with the new DDP is that we almost never have dessert but would rather an appetizer, and, it was so nice not having to worry about the tip and taxes and NOT carry any extra money with us. It was all taken care of like an all inclusive. That was worth its weight in gold for us.

ntsammy5
08-31-2007, 07:34 AM
I will not be changing my eating habits but I will not be purchasing the DDP either in 2008.

DDE will be a better deal. I've had DDP twice, once free and once not and I'm still trying to decide on my December trip. DDP has in the past forced me to change my eating habits. In the past I've eaten at a few TS Disney restaurants and have hit most of them over the past several years, but last September, we ate at 9 during an 11 day stay. That's too much for me. It's my preference not to eat that many large meals, but that's just me. Everyone is different.

As a lot of OP have noted, losing the gratuity is big, as is the loss of the appetizer. They could drop the desert and it wouldn't make a difference to me. I still think that the DDP will be used by a lot of people, but the use will probably decline.

I think the DDP has caused restaurants to become crowded and over-booked. 5 months before my trip in December it was impossible to get an ADR at LeCellier over a 10 day period. That, IMO, is a direct result of DDP. Not necessarily a bad thing, but an inconvenience.

Priorityonecb
08-31-2007, 07:36 AM
I agree...for us the major appeal was the pre-paid, all inclusive part of the dining plan. The cost savings wasn't anywhere near as important to us as the stressfree, no need to carry around cash perk. It felt like when we entered the park, we could use it as we wished without pulling out more cash every 5 minutes...a real perk for my dh especially.

Muushka
08-31-2007, 07:39 AM
I haven't considered changing our eating habit. We'll just be changing our paying habits. If we want what we got on the Dining Plan, we'll simply have to pay more. :confused3

Some of us changed our eating habits to fit the DDP. We are simply returning to our old eating habits. More healthy, less expensive and less time consuming.:confused3

disneyjunkie
08-31-2007, 08:53 AM
Who else has had to consider changing their eating habits at WDW due to the 2008 DDP changes? What options are you considering?
:thumbsup2 :thumbsup2










Due to the changes, we'll be able to eat at restaurants we passed over in the before.

I won't have to pay OOP for breakfast in order to save credits.

We'll have more flexibility.

We can use one credit for CS breakfast, one credit for CS or TS lunch and one credit for CS or TS dinner.
OR

We can use one credit for a CS breakfast and 2 for a signature dinner.

OR

We can use one credit for a TS breakfast and 2 for a dinner show.

I wouldn't do this if I was paying OPP for all of our meals. I wouldn't be able to do this with the old dining plan.

So for us the deluxe dining plan will work great.:dance3:

Twende
08-31-2007, 09:38 AM
Some of us changed our eating habits to fit the DDP. We are simply returning to our old eating habits. More healthy, less expensive and less time consuming.:confused3


This is how I see it for our family too. We will eat more meals in our rooms and most likely choose one very special TS a trip to splurge. Other than that we will eat less and spend more time in the parks on attractions.

PrincessTiffany
08-31-2007, 09:52 AM
I agree...for us the major appeal was the pre-paid, all inclusive part of the dining plan. The cost savings wasn't anywhere near as important to us as the stressfree, no need to carry around cash perk. It felt like when we entered the park, we could use it as we wished without pulling out more cash every 5 minutes...a real perk for my dh especially.
Us too. That's why my husband liked it so much also.

NMW
08-31-2007, 10:14 AM
Well, we are really going back to our old way of eating with the deluxe dining plan. It's the 2007 DDP that did not fit our way of eating. We adapted somewhat, but it's so nice to have the deluxe plan now and be able to do everything we want, the way we want.

With the old DDP we struggled to use CS credits. We had to pay OOP for our TS/character breakfasts every day that we always do. We paid OOP for a couple TS lunches we wanted and skipped other TS lunches we wanted to do because we had to use all those pesky CS credits. We also really like signatures and ended up paying OOP for a dinner or two to have the credits for signatures. The old plan just did not fit our way of dining, but we still thought it was a good deal for the money, and bought it.

The new 2008 Deluxe dining plan fits our families way of dining perfectly. I have been begging Disney for a plan like this (3 meals a day with out all the boat rental/tours/child care stuff the premium plan came with) for the last 3 years. I feel like Disney finally listened to people like me! :woohoo:

The only bummer is the tip not being included, but I guess you can't have everything. Yes, it stinks, but what are you going to do?

so, I don't think the 2008 changes are changing our dining habits, so much as the 2008 deluxe plan FITS our dining habits. It was the old 2005-2007 plan that made us change our dining habits. Even my 10 year old said to me during our last trip that he was really getting sick of all those CS lunches. We were checking into Brown Derby for lunch (one of the endless meals we paid OOP for with the old DDP) and he said he was so happy not to be eating CS, AGAIN. :goodvibes I have to say, as I sat there with my cobb salad and glass of wine, I agreed with him 100%!

danalee
08-31-2007, 10:15 AM
We too loved the "pre-paid" part of the DDP, it was so easy:goodvibes

We had been tossing the idea of Deluxe plan for next trip and the tip not included was a big hang up of mine, (loved the no cash thing) but like my hubby said "we put money on our room card, we will just add tip money on there as well, still giving them just one card. Here is my card take off the dining credits & the tip... bada bing bada boom" (his words, not mine:lmao: )

Dont get me wrong I would still like the tip included, but I also like the "ease" dining plan and we dont rent a car when we go. So the deluxe plan it is for us:thumbsup2

No plan will ever make everyone happy, just do what works for best for you and your vacation:grouphug:

DisneyMomOK
08-31-2007, 11:08 AM
If your res starts on 12/30 and you check out on 1/3, would you be on the 2007 DDP the entire res or would they do a combination? I cannot see how that would work logistically, but when money is involved, the Mouse seems to find a way.

Sharon

bicker
08-31-2007, 03:17 PM
Some of us changed our eating habits to fit the DDP. We are simply returning to our old eating habits. More healthy, less expensive and less time consuming.:confused3Hehe... we never changed our eating habits to fit the Dining Plan. Always "more healthy" at least. :)

daisyduck123
08-31-2007, 03:27 PM
I agree...for us the major appeal was the pre-paid, all inclusive part of the dining plan. The cost savings wasn't anywhere near as important to us as the stressfree, no need to carry around cash perk. It felt like when we entered the park, we could use it as we wished without pulling out more cash every 5 minutes...a real perk for my dh especially.

That is why we will continue to use the DDP.

I have not & never will cook in our room on vacation.....it would not be a vacation for me if I had to cook. :sad2:

twinmom108
09-01-2007, 01:07 AM
I have not & never will cook in our room on vacation.....it would not be a vacation for me if I had to cook. :sad2:

Me cook? That's why we bring our 3 teenage boys.:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Saturn23
09-02-2007, 09:49 PM
I've used the dining plan on my last two trips but decided not to use it in 08. I found I was eating too much and always felt really full so now I'll be eating less. Also, my husband and I usually share an appetizer and dessert, so now we can go back to doing that instead. I've still planned one TS meal per day, but if I only feel like eating an appetizer and dessert with no main course I won't feel like I'm wasting money. I tend to prefer the vegetarian entrees and those are usually less expensive so I felt like I wasn't getting as good of a value for my credits on the plan when I ordered those. I can also try all of the bakeries at world showcase that I didn't have any room for on the meal plan. Last time we also had 2 CS credits and 6 snack credits left over when we left which I felt bad for wasting.

I was a little upset when I found out about the changes but now I'm looking forward to more freedom.

deedeetoo
09-02-2007, 10:17 PM
We'll change our dining habits a bit but I have to admit that the old DDP is probably going to have a permanent effect on how we vacation and it will result in us spending more on food.

On vacations before the DDP we ate breakfast in the room, eat snacks (Mickey bars or popcorn :) ) during the day and most dinners were CS. We would do about 2-3 TS per trip. Part of this was due to the age of our children because they were so young they wouldn't sit well in restaurants especially after a busy day in the parks. We are also not big eaters.

Well we did the DDP this past year and loved it. We loved having a TS dinner each night and having trying all different TS restaurants. DH said it was his favorite thing about the trip.

Next year the DDP will not make sense for us. Not only do the changes effect us but my oldest will be 10 and she is tiny and eats almost nothing so it just doesn't make sense anymore. But I think the Disney has got us. We will probably continue to do a TS every night. What changes will we make? Breakfast will be simple and in the room. Lunch will be CS but we will probably share meals rather then each person get there own - we always had so much left over. At dinner we won't order dessert - we never finished it anyway - maybe we'll get one for the table. We probably will order one appetizer for me and DH to split.

I've gone through the menus and I think that ordering just what we want we will spend less money than we would if we bought the new DDP but more than if we went back to our old habits. So in the end Disney wins.

lustergirl
09-03-2007, 10:56 AM
my family will continue to use the dining plan as well far beyond 2008. My 2 sons love to eat and I don't mind paying the tips- the waitstaff deserves it after dealing with my family. The fact the new 2008 dp doesn't include an appetizer doesn't bother me one bit because on the old plan which includes the appetizer sometimes it is too much. Having just the entree is fine with us as it is always good and plenty. I am already planning next year's trip- there will be 5 of us and I will include the new dining plan as well as in the past.

annie1995
09-03-2007, 02:55 PM
Ok, I have a question regarding the 18% tip. Is that a standard tip we will have to pay at all table service resturants?? How do they inforce it? And what happens if you have a stinky does not deserve 18% tip waiter??

packy
09-03-2007, 03:41 PM
We have done DDP the past 3 years and have loved the all inclusive aspect and not having to worry about the cost of what you order or paying a bill at the end of the meal. What we didn't like about the DDP was the need to schedule TS meals everyday (and well in advance of the trip) then build a schedule around the meal time. That said, I doubt we will do the 2008 meal plan as it just doesn't seem worth the trouble given the real cost of the new plan. Here is how I see it.

For a family of 4 adults the 2008 DDP is $152/day.
Add in a $20 tip for TS meal and you are up to $172/day.
Add back in the cost of an appetizer which you lost ($7 w/tax and tip) and the new plan would cost the equivalent of $200/day.
The 2007 plan costs $156/day for the exact same thing that would cost $200/day under the 2008 plan.

$172/day for four is quite a bit and even more when you consider that you don't even get a salad with a sit down meal on the 2008 DDP. We will probably just go back to the old way of eating, i.e. CS, McDonalds, pizza and off-site with a couple of Disney TS meals each trip. We will save some money in the process and won't have to build our schedule around TS meals.

packy
09-03-2007, 03:42 PM
Deleted double post.

JimMIA
09-03-2007, 04:39 PM
Ok, I have a question regarding the 18% tip. Is that a standard tip we will have to pay at all table service resturants?? How do they inforce it? And what happens if you have a stinky does not deserve 18% tip waiter??
The answer to your specific question depends on the size of your party.

If you have six or more in your party -- no matter how you are paying for the meal -- an 18% gratuity will automatically be added to your check. It's part of the cost of the meal, and you will pay it unless you complain to a manager and the manager decides to take it off your check. This will be no surprise to anyone -- the 18% automatic gratuity will be well advertised.

If you are on DDP and have fewer than six in your party, you leave whatever you think the server deserves -- hopefully keeping in mind that the normal tip is 15-20% in polite company. Keep in mind that your server has to split that tip with a bunch of other people; they are not keeping it all themselves.

If you are on DDP and you order something not covered by DDP -- appetizer, alcohol, etc -- that check will carry an automatic 18% service charge, and again that is a part of the bill...not an option.

But there is a much larger question here that many people simply don't get.

We keep saying it over and over, but many people DO NOT GET the importance in the change in the gratuity. The importance is not whether or not it is automatically added to your check.

The importance is who pays it.

In 2008, YOU PAY IT, whereas previously Disney paid it out of the $37.99 or whatever you paid for DDP. If you eat a $50 meal, Disney has neatly transferred an additional $9 cost from them to you!

It's absolutely amazing how many people do not get this simple concept of who pays the darn bill.

annie1995
09-03-2007, 05:07 PM
The answer to your specific question depends on the size of your party.

If you have six or more in your party -- no matter how you are paying for the meal -- an 18% gratuity will automatically be added to your check. It's part of the cost of the meal, and you will pay it unless you complain to a manager and the manager decides to take it off your check. This will be no surprise to anyone -- the 18% automatic gratuity will be well advertised.

If you are on DDP and have fewer than six in your party, you leave whatever you think the server deserves -- hopefully keeping in mind that the normal tip is 15-20% in polite company. Keep in mind that your server has to split that tip with a bunch of other people; they are not keeping it all themselves.

If you are on DDP and you order something not covered by DDP -- appetizer, alcohol, etc -- that check will carry an automatic 18% service charge, and again that is a part of the bill...not an option.

But there is a much larger question here that many people simply don't get.

We keep saying it over and over, but many people DO NOT GET the importance in the change in the gratuity. The importance is not whether or not it is automatically added to your check.

The importance is who pays it.

In 2008, YOU PAY IT, whereas previously Disney paid it out of the $37.99 or whatever you paid for DDP. If you eat a $50 meal, Disney has neatly transferred an additional $9 cost from them to you!

It's absolutely amazing how many people do not get this simple concept of who pays the darn bill.


Thanks for the info!!!! I have not read up much on the DP for next year, but you have shed a ton of light for me!!!:goodvibes

Lisa F
09-04-2007, 07:34 AM
It seems like me that people who are not going to go to TS meals anymore because of changes to the DDP are cutting off their nose to spite their face. DDP was a good deal but unless you made a sport of squeezing the highest value physically possible out of every last dollar, it wasn't THAT good a deal to warrant changing the way you vacation just to "show disney." We generally saved about 20% using the DDP and will find that savings elsewhere with more flexibility by getting the DDE. We got the DDP in the first place because it more or less fit the way we ate on vacation before the plan and will continue to do a TS a day without the plan because that's what we like.

n2mm
09-04-2007, 07:59 AM
It seems like me that people who are not going to go to TS meals anymore because of changes to the DDP are cutting off their nose to spite their face. DDP was a good deal but unless you made a sport of squeezing the highest value physically possible out of every last dollar, it wasn't THAT good a deal to warrant changing the way you vacation just to "show disney." We generally saved about 20% using the DDP and will find that savings elsewhere with more flexibility by getting the DDE. We got the DDP in the first place because it more or less fit the way we ate on vacation before the plan and will continue to do a TS a day without the plan because that's what we like.


We don't plan to buy the 2008 DDP, but that does not mean we won't eat at TS anymore. With the new cost, $76 a day for 2 adults, plus add in $20 a day for tip (average), that is about $100 a day. We do not eat $100 a day normally for CS and TS. Yes, some days our TS might be higher, some days lower. There are some days where we just don't want a TS meal. We almost never do appetizers normally and deserts sometimes. We plan to buy the ddp in October for our "swansong", but do not plan to buy it in January 2008. We do have the DDE card too, so had to factor that in also. I think we will be much happier without the ddp, but still plan to eat at all of our favorite places.

Lisa F
09-04-2007, 08:08 AM
I totally hear you about it not being as much of a value anymore. We generally spend about $100/day for food so for us, we saw it as about a 20% discount and was worth it for the lack of flexibility. Now there are other ways to get that discount that are more flexible so we won't be using the plan.

There are a lot of people who seem to be saying "well I'll just eat offsite" or "i'll just eat cs" now. I'm saying that if you enjoy eating TS onsite that not doing it just because the DDP isn't as big a value is only hurting yourself. With how packed the restaurants are and walkups being turned away left and right I'm sure disney will fill those seats anyway. DDP was never the "make it or break it" for me to eat onsite anyway - we did before, the DDP was nice, but will continue to do so after too.

The title of this thread is "changing eating habits" not "changing paying habits." We probably won't change our eating habits much (maybe have a few less appetizers and desserts and snacks).

Kira G.
09-04-2007, 03:05 PM
I also don't think we'll be using the DDP in the future. This was our 3rd trip with it, and I'd loved it in the past, but I don't think it works for my family anymore - and that's with or without the changes.

In particular, now that we've been to Disney so many times, I found us changing our daily plans much more often than in the past. It was a bit of a problem to be "locked into" dining at a particular venue each day, and I kept stressing over "using up our credits!" This did not add much to our vacation! We did manage to find last minute ressies at a couple of places when we changed our plans (this was the week before free dining so the places were not completely overbooked), but I think we would have been happier with fewer reservations.

Also, we kept running into problems because my 9-year-old is such a foodie! She simply could not find something that she liked on the kid's menu whether it was a CS or a TS place. In the past this has been balanced by my older child's desire to live on chicken strips but he has changed his dining habits also. So, we ended up using up all our adult credits and having numerous child credits left over!

So the combination of wanting greater spontaneity and flexibility with changes to the DDP means it will probably not be a value for my family anymore. Which is too bad because I loved putting the whole thing on my Disney Visa and having 6 months to pay it off! We'll continue to eat onsite, but will only make a few "special" TS reservations and then be spontaneous for the rest. And we'll share plates a LOT more often, and throw away much less food.

No biggie - the cost will probably come out the same in the end.

bicker
09-05-2007, 04:53 AM
There are a lot of people who seem to be saying "well I'll just eat offsite" or "i'll just eat cs" now. I'm saying that if you enjoy eating TS onsite that not doing it just because the DDP isn't as big a value is only hurting yourself.I agree. I discount most of the swearing-off of eating on-site as reflections of frustration and disappointment. Also, people who feel the Disney magic more passionately are more like to genuinely have such draconian reactions, even to the extent it spites themselves as much as anyone else. While we can only speculate, Disney's got some pretty good numbers to back up their decisions. While there will always be fine-tuning as time goes on, figure that these changes were made with sound foundation, that the changes are better for Disney in the long-run.

ScottOKW2K
09-05-2007, 03:53 PM
The changes in the DDP have not affected our eating habits simply because we have never used the DDP. I have wanted to try a number of times but have never been able to make the plan economically feasible with our eating habits. For example our typical CS at Columbia is my daughter and I sharing a captains galley and my wife getting the salad, with the three of us sharing a large coke and some glasses of ice water. This is enough to satisfy all of us. To get three full meals with drink and dessert would be way too much for us. Another example - Le Cellier - my wife will often get the cheese soup appetizer and we'll enjoy the pretzel bread. Filets all around , and by the time we're done we are full. A dessert for each of us ?!? - where would we put it ?

As AP holders we will continue to use the DDE card. Makes life easy for me too, as I will often tip about 20% and if I just add the discount back in and Viola! - instant tip calculation. Not exact, but close enough.

winterman
09-05-2007, 03:57 PM
We have used the DDP twice (both free) and loved it. We were planning to pay for it on our trip next April-May. With the changes we will not do that. We will probably eat off site more often. Also, there are several restaurants where the entrees don't really appeal to me so I may just have a salad, appetizer and dessert. Hopefully that will save me some money.

:cheer2: :cheer2: :cheer2:

GofFreak
09-05-2007, 04:20 PM
I will not be changing my eating habits but I will not be purchasing the DDP either in 2008. The pricepoint was good for @$40 per person per day, but more than that, that will include less--and since I have to pay for appetizers and the tip it costs more than $40 per person per day. Honestly, we do not spend $160 per day to eat a TS and CS each day for the four of us. We will go back to eating off site and enjoy the vacation more with day trips to other Florida venues as well. Snacks are not something we usually eat every day, dessert with CS unheard of for us at every CS meal. The only thing we will change is purchasing the DDP--we will pay OOP for the things we purchase and really save money.

You said it!:mad:

BillyFeat
09-05-2007, 05:28 PM
Our days on the DDP are over. My oldest turns 10 and it doesn't make sense to pay adult fare for what she eats. We will be exploring on and off site options next year.

:goodvibes :goodvibes

blanq
09-05-2007, 05:40 PM
We will be changing our eating patterns with trips in 2008 forward. We have a trip planned next month, and it will be our 2nd trip this year renting DVC points and being on the DDP.

I have a tipping point, and it has been reached. Any trip after this one will include a combination of having a light in-room breakfast, and TS/CS meals. I can't possibly eat all of the food on the DDP as it currently is anyway. Any other time we eat out, outside of WDW, we almost never have dessert with a fast food meal or an appetizer and dessert with a sitdown meal. I know we can spend less on food without the 2008 DDP and be absolutely satisfied.

TDC Nala
09-06-2007, 07:47 PM
I won't be using it again. Just had a trip at Pop on free dining.

Could have booked the bounceback for next Labor Day but would rather be using DVC points and DDE.

I'll still eat wherever I want to eat, but I'll order less, so that's fine. No more severe overeating because it's all "included"

Offsite isn't really an option. I hardly ever get a car. And if I did I won't drive somewhere to eat because if I do that, no wine with dinner.

twinmom108
09-08-2007, 08:29 AM
We will be changing our eating patterns with trips in 2008 forward. We have a trip planned next month, and it will be our 2nd trip this year renting DVC points and being on the DDP.

I have a tipping point, and it has been reached. Any trip after this one will include a combination of having a light in-room breakfast, and TS/CS meals. I can't possibly eat all of the food on the DDP as it currently is anyway. Any other time we eat out, outside of WDW, we almost never have dessert with a fast food meal or an appetizer and dessert with a sitdown meal. I know we can spend less on food without the 2008 DDP and be absolutely satisfied.

I totally agree!:thumbsup2

TwingleMum
09-08-2007, 08:46 AM
We won't do the DDP in 2008. Having the tip excluded adds too much to the cost to make it a good value for our family.

Momof3disneynuts
09-08-2007, 08:49 AM
Well we just returned from out 10 day stay and as we were checking out, the women at the front desk asked me did i want to book for next year, so i asked her is there going to be free dining again, and she said yes but it not going to start until Aug 30, well i of course sad no, because my kids are just going backto school, and i cant have them missing the first week of school. Needless to say i am not happy that they keep making later and later every year!!!

roselark
09-08-2007, 08:51 AM
The only change I really don't care for is the loss of gratuity.

We will still do the DDP. I went through and using allears.net, I calculated what we would normally eat to see what it would cost OOP. Even with the loss of gratuity, it is still a savings as I would have to pay gratuity OOP as well.

Actually, my husband wants to try the Deluxe. We really prefer table service over counter service anyway and that would give us the flexibility to do that and allow us to eat at more signature restaurants.

twinmom108
09-08-2007, 11:21 AM
We won't do the DDP in 2008. Having the tip excluded adds too much to the cost to make it a good value for our family.

The exclusion of the tip is the biggest reason we won't be doing DDP in 2008 or beyond unless Disney makes DDP worth our while again. If Disney would add the tip back in and make it a choice of either appetizer or dessert, then DDP would make sense for our family once again.:thumbsup2

eeyore45
09-08-2007, 11:32 AM
ITA about the exclusion of the tip - I just cant see tipping 18% at a buffet!

odd1
09-08-2007, 04:35 PM
My partner and I were just discussing this this afternoon. Up until now we've been die-hard DDP fans, and have enjoyed it our last few trips (we're DVC members). But on the trip we have scheduled next Spring, we will be dining sans DDP. Our typical dining habits don't include both a CS meal and a TS meal and a snack per day. There are many days that we could be happy with one CS meal and the snacks we bring with us.

I will miss not having to bring our backpack everywhere, but that's a small price to pay -- as opposed to paying with our wallet. :thumbsup2

DDP -- it's been AWESOME, and we'll miss you. :sad1: But we'll be just fine, and will probably save some serious calories too. :rotfl:

lam712
09-08-2007, 05:45 PM
We loved the DDP when we used it on our last trip, but I think we will skip it on our next visit. I loved not having to budget or worry about how much each family member was spending on their meal. However, the TS meals do take a lot of time away from the trip. In addition, I don't want to have to worry about either carrying cash or charging tips at each of our meals. With five in our family, that would be a considerable expense added to each meal- the two dollar decrease in price would not even be close to covering that, not to mention the loss of the appetizer. While I don't always order appetizers at a meal, most off site restaurants do include a salad with an entree.

twinmom108
09-11-2007, 10:51 AM
I will miss not having to bring our backpack everywhere, but that's a small price to pay -- as opposed to paying with our wallet. :thumbsup2

DDP -- it's been AWESOME, and we'll miss you. :sad1: But we'll be just fine, and will probably save some serious calories too. :rotfl:

We loved DDP too and will miss it as well. Who knows with all the walking and fewer calories we may even lose weight on our 2008 vacation. ;)

Blueyed Girl
09-12-2007, 11:28 AM
If you are on DDP and you order something not covered by DDP -- appetizer, alcohol, etc -- that check will carry an automatic 18% service charge, and again that is a part of the bill...not an option.



WHAT??? Are you serious? Please tell me this is not true. I don't understand how they can do this.:confused3 :sad2: :mad:

I booked Feb 2008 w/basic dining plan because we liked the ease of not having to carry around a lot of money, etc. But, if the above statement is true, then this is the last straw. Can you remove the dining plan once you've already booked and made ADR's?

Tricia1972
09-12-2007, 11:34 AM
WHAT??? Are you serious? Please tell me this is not true. I don't understand how they can do this.:confused3 :sad2: :mad:

I booked Feb 2008 w/basic dining plan because we liked the ease of not having to carry around a lot of money, etc. But, if the above statement is true, then this is the last straw. Can you remove the dining plan once you've already booked and made ADR's?

Jim is right, Disney has left a loophole that they could charge you an 18% gratuity. From the Dining Plan Brochure, in the section regarding gratuities.

Gratuities are not included unless otherwise indicated. An 18% gratuity will be added automatically for parties of 6 or more. A gratuity may also be added automatically for ordered items that are not included in the Disney Dining Plan (e.g. alcoholic beverages).

Blueyed Girl
09-12-2007, 11:51 AM
Jim is right, Disney has left a loophole that they could charge you an 18% gratuity. From the Dining Plan Brochure, in the section regarding gratuities.

So, they just decide to charge 18% for 2 glasses of wine or whatever, rather than the 15%?? And the fact that it is "mandatory" is ridiculous! Are people who aren't on the dining plan having to pay a mandatory tip? We shouldn't have to either!!! This makes me very angry.

Tricia1972
09-12-2007, 11:54 AM
So, they just decide to charge 18% for 2 glasses of wine or whatever, rather than the 15%?? And the fact that it is "mandatory" is ridiculous! Are people who aren't on the dining plan having to pay a mandatory tip? We shouldn't have to either!!! This makes me very angry.

Well the brochure stops short of saying that the tip is mandatory, but they certainly left it open so they could do it.

Blueyed Girl
09-12-2007, 12:01 PM
Well the brochure stops short of saying that the tip is mandatory, but they certainly left it open so they could do it.

Exactly!

I've got some serious reconsidering to do. I don't know if I want to wait until I am sitting at the restaurant to find out what they mean by this.

Tricia1972
09-12-2007, 12:05 PM
Exactly!

I've got some serious reconsidering to do. I don't know if I want to wait until I am sitting at the restaurant to find out what they mean by this.

One thing to consider would be leaving the package as is for now and removing it after 1/1/08, once we start hearing first hand counts of how they handle this.

bicker
09-12-2007, 01:06 PM
Always read and ensure you understand and are satisfied with the terms and conditions for anything you purchase; otherwise do not make the purchase.

Blueyed Girl
09-12-2007, 01:27 PM
Always read and ensure you understand and are satisfied with the terms and conditions for anything you purchase; otherwise do not make the purchase.

I did read it. I did understand it. Thank you for your concern. We were discussing a loophole that they have left open for themselves. I understand that it may or may not end up this way. It will just really make me angry if it does. Like I said, it will be the last straw. Our reason for booking was because of the "ease" of using the dining plan and having one less thing to budget during our trip. I booked it even though I didn't like most of the new things going on in the DP for 2008, because my reasons for wanting it outweighed the things I didn't like.

As for just being charged for something that they aren't making perfectly clear in the first place, yes this makes me angry. Because like I said before, they aren't charging those who are NOT on the DP the manditory tip. So, when I read it the first time I figured they were not doing it to us either. I figured, "why would they?". They left it open to translation, and that's the way I translated it at the time. I've NEVER been to any restaurant or on any vacation where they did such a thing.
:confused3

Blueyed Girl
09-12-2007, 01:28 PM
One thing to consider would be leaving the package as is for now and removing it after 1/1/08, once we start hearing first hand counts of how they handle this.

This is probably what I will do. ;)

Kitka
09-12-2007, 02:19 PM
If you are on DDP and you order something not covered by DDP -- appetizer, alcohol, etc -- that check will carry an automatic 18% service charge, and again that is a part of the bill...not an option.

I (think!) I'm pretty clear on the plan and the costs and benefits of it, but I'm confused by what you are saying here. I read the 2008 brochure on on tipping it says,

"Gratuities are not included unless otherwise indicated. An 18% gratuity will be added automatically for parties of 6 or more. A gratuity may also be added automatically for ordered items that are not included in the Disney Dining Plan (e.g. alcoholic beverages)."

To me that says the automatic 18% would be added to the ITEMS ordered not covered by the DDP - not the entire check. Not that what that would be like effectively isn't confusing and silly, but nevertheless, I think it's different than adding 18% to the entire check just because something outside the plan was ordered.

Blueyed Girl
09-12-2007, 02:58 PM
I (think!) I'm pretty clear on the plan and the costs and benefits of it, but I'm confused by what you are saying here. I read the 2008 brochure on on tipping it says,



To me that says the automatic 18% would be added to the ITEMS ordered not covered by the DDP - not the entire check. Not that what that would be like effectively isn't confusing and silly, but nevertheless, I think it's different than adding 18% to the entire check just because something outside the plan was ordered.

Yes, that's correct. But I still think it is not right to have a "mandatory tip" added on to our extra items ticket just because we are on the DP. If we weren't, we wouldn't have a "mandatory tip" unless we have 6 or more in our party. (which we, personally, do not.)

Kitka
09-12-2007, 04:05 PM
Yes, that's correct. But I still think it is not right to have a "mandatory tip" added on to our extra items ticket just because we are on the DP. If we weren't, we wouldn't have a "mandatory tip" unless we have 6 or more in our party. (which we, personally, do not.)

I agree - it just isn't logical.

The only thing that is redeeming about it only being on those *items* and not the whole ticket is that I can decide how much I want to tip, and then just subtract the amount they took automatically and leave the rest. At least it still leaves me with some control (though more work than I'd like to have to deal with on vacation!)

bicker
09-12-2007, 04:13 PM
Always read and ensure you understand and are satisfied with the terms and conditions for anything you purchase; otherwise do not make the purchase.I did read it. I did understand it. Thank you for your concern. We were discussing a loophole that they have left open for themselves. I understand that it may or may not end up this way. It will just really make me angry if it does.Yes, that's what it sounded like. My message was a recommendation that folks, in general, as a rule, really, for everything (not just the Dining Plan, and not just things having to do with WDW), make sure you're satisfied with the terms and conditions -- all of them, including what could be loop-holes -- and if you could end up disappointed, my recommendation is to not make the purchase. The converse is also good advice, IMHO: If you see terms and conditions that would make you unhappy, then either pass up the offer, or change your perspective so that if the worst happens you'll still be satisfied.

This goes back to something we talk about occasionally here. The power we consumers have comes from when we look at offers and communicate our dissatisfaction with it by doing without. If consumers always just grumble about things but still make the purchase, we really have no power, and sellers can just walk all over us.

Blueyed Girl
09-12-2007, 06:45 PM
Yes, that's what it sounded like. My message was a recommendation that folks, in general, as a rule, really, for everything (not just the Dining Plan, and not just things having to do with WDW), make sure you're satisfied with the terms and conditions -- all of them, including what could be loop-holes -- and if you could end up disappointed, my recommendation is to not make the purchase. The converse is also good advice, IMHO: If you see terms and conditions that would make you unhappy, then either pass up the offer, or change your perspective so that if the worst happens you'll still be satisfied.

This goes back to something we talk about occasionally here. The power we consumers have comes from when we look at offers and communicate our dissatisfaction with it by doing without. If consumers always just grumble about things but still make the purchase, we really have no power, and sellers can just walk all over us.


I see what you're saying. I purchased it, but figured I could also withdraw that part of my purchase if still unhappy before going. I like Kitka's idea about just subtracting the mandatory tip from the other non-mandatory bill (DP). This sort of puts the control back in my corner where I like it.;) Being as though I weighed all the other pro's and con's of the new DP more heavily and still decided to purchase, I'm thinking I will just stand by my purchase. Besides, if the service is really good then I won't be subtracting anything from either tip anyway. I just like to know the control is back in my hands. So, all in all after all of this discussion, UNLESS Disney changes something between now and then, I will just be happy with my purchase for this year. I will not say with certainty that I would purchase the DP again after this trip, though. Next time I will just spend more time budgeting (yuck!) rather than take the "easy" route. It mostly boils down to me being lazy and not wanting to keep up with extra reciepts during vacation. I do that enough at home.;)

TheRatPack
09-12-2007, 07:42 PM
Well, we are a family of 7 so we automatically get the 18% anyway. I'm not too stirred up about the appetizer though. The only place we had one this year was the SciFi. The other places we like are either plated buffets or the breakfast buffets...so no appetizer offered. As far as the tips not being included, I sort of like that too. We had some bad service on the old plan and we're hoping this makes the service better.....if not we'll atleast have the option of speaking our peace to a manager or someone and having it removed or lowered.

Oh and on that same note, most places we sat down to this year were 150.00 to 180.00, so approximately 25.00-40.00 in tips. Still cheaper for us to leave the 40.00 in tips then to eat out at McDonalds (which usually runs us around 41.00....LOL) That was when the dining plan was free though....we'd really have to run some numbers to see how convenient it would be for us to pay for the dining plan and the tips, or just carry cash and keep up with all of that.

My husband had a good idea and said since we have pretty much the same eating ressies each year and know how much it runs, we could just pre-pay it all on a gift card or use our Disney Visa for all the meals and send in a payment upon returning with the money we'd have had to carry.

twinmom108
09-13-2007, 12:46 PM
My husband had a good idea and said since we have pretty much the same eating ressies each year and know how much it runs, we could just pre-pay it all on a gift card or use our Disney Visa for all the meals and send in a payment upon returning with the money we'd have had to carry.

That is a very intriguing idea. We'll have to cunch the numbers to see if that might work for our family too.

TDC Nala
09-13-2007, 06:30 PM
Are people who aren't on the dining plan having to pay a mandatory tip?

As of January 2008, if there are 6 or more in the party, or they're DDE members, then yes, they will be.

Tink415
09-13-2007, 06:56 PM
I was charged 18% tip on alcoholic beverages this past April 2007 at Boma when using DDP so its not a new policy. I noticed it and was annoyed because I ordered a virgin strawberry daquari and the server brought an alcoholic one. I told him, but he acted like there was nothing he could do :confused3 , there was a langauage barrier and life is too short - it wasn't worth the effort to resolve, so I just drank it :) But I was annoyed at having to pay the 18% tip when I didn't get what I ordered. Didn't stop me from getting the DDP on my next trips.

JLS
09-13-2007, 07:52 PM
I was a bit surprised to hear someone say that they are going to quit going to WDW because of these changes!

Basically the changes can be summed up as less food for more money (since tip is not included now). Obviously a bad deal compared to the prior deal, but not necessarily a bad deal overall. The old DDP was a phenomenal deal if used correctly. With this new deal, I estimate you would end up tipping about $7 per day per person, as in the nice places you could have a check, pre-tax, of $30-$35 with entree and dessert (perhaps more in the 2 TS places). So its a net increase of about $6 per day, and you lose the appetizer. I figure you are still going to get the following value:

$3 per day for snack (average)
$10 per day for CS meal (average, based on food, drink and dessert)
$30 average for TS (entree, dessert and tax)

So the "value" on average is going to be = to what you pay for. Not a bad thing, if you like to be on a pre-paid plan and not worry about paying for stuff other than tip. But if you are paying more for a room than you otherwise would just to get DDP, I think you would be better off paying for everything OOP because you will come out ahead.

Just my 2 cents.

septbaby
09-13-2007, 08:19 PM
If you rent a car the options are many. There are many, many, very good venues for dinner not far off Disney property. We do am-lunch at Disney, but dinner is a much better value off-site.

How are off site dinners a better value if you rent a car to get there?

TDC Nala
09-13-2007, 08:46 PM
How are off site dinners a better value if you rent a car to get there?

If you were not previously inclined to rent a car, then they are not. Some visitors to WDW wouldn't think of going without a car.

On the other hand if you got enough of a discount on the car it might even out.

robind
09-13-2007, 09:08 PM
Regarding the 18% gratuity on items not included in the dining plan.....

I've NEVER been to any restaurant or on any vacation where they did such a thing.
:confused3

You've obviously never been on a cruise - RCL and Carnival both add 18% gratuity to EVERYTHING - all food/booze not included in the regular meals.

Blueyed Girl
09-13-2007, 10:21 PM
Regarding the 18% gratuity on items not included in the dining plan.....



You've obviously never been on a cruise - RCL and Carnival both add 18% gratuity to EVERYTHING - all food/booze not included in the regular meals.

You're right, I've never been on one. However, I would have imagined it would be like that on a cruise. Not sure why since I've never been on one. :confused3 Just seems like something they'd do.

robind
09-13-2007, 10:57 PM
It does drive me buggy sometimes - but what can you do.

I would suggest a cruise- I love them. I really want to go on a disney cruise - maybe someday.

Still haven't decided about the DDP for next year, probably not - I recently purchased DVC so I'll probably for the the DDE card next time.

NMW
09-14-2007, 07:58 AM
So, they just decide to charge 18% for 2 glasses of wine or whatever, rather than the 15%?? And the fact that it is "mandatory" is ridiculous! Are people who aren't on the dining plan having to pay a mandatory tip? We shouldn't have to either!!! This makes me very angry.


This is not a 2008 DDP change. :confused3 This is not a "new" change, I should say. When using the DDP an 18% tip was always added to "extras"-extra food, alcohol, etc. At least it was that way in 2005 and 2006. I even remember lots and lots of threads where people over tipped, because they didn't realize the 18% was already there and added another tip. In 2006, we used the plan and everything we bought OOP had the 18% tip. I kind of liked it because I didn't have to worry about figuring out the tip.

Blueyed Girl
09-14-2007, 09:15 AM
This is not a 2008 DDP change. :confused3 This is not a "new" change, I should say. When using the DDP an 18% tip was always added to "extras"-extra food, alcohol, etc. At least it was that way in 2005 and 2006. I even remember lots and lots of threads where people over tipped, because they didn't realize the 18% was already there and added another tip. In 2006, we used the plan and everything we bought OOP had the 18% tip. I kind of liked it because I didn't have to worry about figuring out the tip.

Yes, I started thinking about that yesterday and dug out my old reciepts. My DS was 2 years old last trip so he didn't fit into the dining plan. If we didn't eat buffet then we had to buy him a plate OOP. On the receipts where we got a beer and glass of wine there most certainly is "Gratuity Included". And yes we even gave more on top of that. I pretty much feel like an idiot right now. :sad2: I am usually the one who is ALWAYS on top of things like this. I suppose I lowered my guard a bit because we were on our 1st vacation in 10 YEARS plus it was DS's 1st trip. Also because that is just not a charge that makes any sense to me so I wouldn't normally watch out for it.

Ah well, live and learn I guess. This will probably be the last time we use the DP anyway. And this time I will be adjusting the tips accordingly.

NMW
09-14-2007, 09:24 AM
Yes, I started thinking about that yesterday and dug out my old reciepts. My DS was 2 years old last trip so he didn't fit into the dining plan. If we didn't eat buffet then we had to buy him a plate OOP. On the receipts where we got a beer and glass of wine there most certainly is "Gratuity Included". And yes we even gave more on top of that. I pretty much feel like an idiot right now. :sad2: I am usually the one who is ALWAYS on top of things like this. I suppose I lowered my guard a bit because we were on our 1st vacation in 10 YEARS plus it was DS's 1st trip. Also because that is just not a charge that makes any sense to me so I wouldn't normally watch out for it.

Ah well, live and learn I guess. This will probably be the last time we use the DP anyway. And this time I will be adjusting the tips accordingly.

Yes, it was pretty easy figuring out the tip, since the 18% was already included. We tip 20% normally, so we just always added a few extra dollars for drinks to bring it to 20%.

DCDisney
09-14-2007, 03:20 PM
We do normally like a sit down meal every day but without the DDP we'll probably do half the sit downs at disney places but even there without the DDP we'll probably drink water (we often did this even with DDP) and my just turned 10 kid will order kids meals at non-buffets. For the other sit down meals we'll do a free meal at rain forest cafe (gift cert from mypoints) and wolfgang puck express which is close enough to sit down for my family. We'll also order Giordano's pizza one night too. For CS we'll never order desserts and the kiddos will probably share 1 adult meal. We usually eat pretty cheap CS (pizza) and some Mickey Wafflle CS breakfasts anyway. Our snacks also tend to the cheaper pretzels, popcorn, and mostly ice cream bars. On the old plan we weren't saving tons but on the new we'd be pretty close to losing and have less flexibility for the kiddos unless they raise prices which very well may happen before Jan 08 anyway :confused3

Yvonne

twinmom108
09-19-2007, 06:06 AM
I know once the kids turn 10 the meal plan isn't worth it. We'll be doing alot less table service meals.

sherabby
09-19-2007, 08:30 AM
Will Disney add the 18% gratuity if you have the deluxe meal plan and give you a bill or is it up to the customer to leave a tip based on service? I know this past August when we went we ended up tipping even though it was included in our meal costs. We were so impressed with the servers and how they handled my son's food allergies that we always gave more. I am sure that we will no longer be able to give more now that the 18% is not included.

twinmom108
09-19-2007, 10:39 PM
The following was taken from the 2008 Disney Deluxe Dining Plan and shows that the 2008 Deluxe Plan does not include gratuity.

Gratuities are not included unless otherwise indicated. An 18% gratuity will be added
automatically for parties of 6 or more. A gratuity may also be added automatically for ordered
items that are not included in the Disney Deluxe Dining Plan (e.g. alcoholic beverages).

lilyv
09-20-2007, 06:39 AM
How are off site dinners a better value if you rent a car to get there?

Well, I work hard to find a car (including tax and fees) around $20.00/day. We drive from the airport (no waiting for ME) have our luggage immediately. We pick up breakfast/snack items from grocery store, as well as reasonably priced nice wines. Breakfast is in room, lunch is generally light, with the occasional table service. We book several signature table service dinners, and then enjoy off-site, as well. Off site-plenty of very nice dinners for two around 30-50.00 total. It's a very good deal. When vacation is done, check-in at Disney, and then zip to the airport in our rental....no waiting, again.

I save money (for starters, priced wines in the Disney shops lately?), and I don't have to spread sheet my eating. For me, it's the flexibility I want on vacation.

Tricia1972
09-20-2007, 06:46 AM
lilyv, you hit upon a big point with this...

I don't have to spread sheet my eating

I tend to be an OCD planner, and planning out my every last detail far in advance is not that big of a deal to me. However, you are right. Lots of people don't like having to plan every last thing out 6 months before they leave and there are many people who don't even plan their trips out that far. My mom finds it inconceivable that we have to make our dining reservations for March this coming Sunday.

I know that there are always some TS places to eat. I know if you're flexible with your times and flexible with where you eat you can eat somewhere. You won't starve at Disney. Ever. However, there is a sense of freedom in eating where you want when you want.

I think that Disney may be hoping to open that freedom up for those that choose to eat on site by making the DDP slightly less attractive and by also turning tables over faster (by cutting out a course).

JMO

Muushka
09-20-2007, 09:02 AM
Tricia, you stole my quote! I thought what lilyv said I don't have to spread sheet my eating was perfect! Our next 2 trips are "spread sheeted" because of DDP, but then we will spread our wings and go back to the good old days (of winging it!).

DVC Sadie
09-20-2007, 07:19 PM
[QUOTE=robind;20796688]Regarding the 18% gratuity on items not included in the dining plan.....



Even when you order room service be it at Disney or a stay at any hotel they automatically add 18% gratuity on the bill so it does not seem above board to us, just the cost of doing business (or eating).

english rose 47
09-20-2007, 08:36 PM
I think when Disney sees the drop in ddp and the drop in on site bookings they will rethink this change. For me it still is fine not awesome like it was. Let's face it you don't have to tip and an entree and a dessert is plenty. I'm not saying I wouldn't tip but I don't have to!!

twinmom108
10-01-2007, 08:21 PM
I think when Disney sees the drop in ddp and the drop in on site bookings they will rethink this change. For me it still is fine not awesome like it was. Let's face it you don't have to tip and an entree and a dessert is plenty. I'm not saying I wouldn't tip but I don't have to!!

It will be interesting to see if there is a drop in people using DDP in 2008. You are right that an entree and dessert is plenty but I'd still like to see a choice between appetizer and dessert. There are plenty people out there that cannot have sugar.

bicker
10-02-2007, 04:32 AM
There had better be a drop in people using the Dining Plan in 2008, since many of us suspect that was part of the intention for the changes.

english rose 47
10-02-2007, 04:05 PM
There had better be a drop in people using the Dining Plan in 2008, since many of us suspect that was part of the intention for the changes.

Was Disney losing or the restaurants with the old DDP? Did the servers get 18% on the total bill or what Disney reimbursed the restaurant?

bicker
10-03-2007, 04:39 AM
Was Disney losing or the restaurants with the old DDP? I don't think "losing" is necessarily part of this... the objective isn't to "lose less" but to "gain more". Beyond that, I think the answer to such questions, which incidentally no one at WDW is going to volunteer for us, are more complicated than "yes" to this and "no" to that. Aspects of business strategy are often more interrelated.

Did the servers get 18% on the total bill or what Disney reimbursed the restaurant?It depended on whether it was a Disney-owned restaurant (where servers were always provided a gratuity of 18% of the total bill) or not (where each restaurant could have their own policy; some did it one way, some did it the other).

noahdove
10-03-2007, 05:48 PM
I am planning on eating with the characters for all of my TS. this way, the children I will be taking, will get their pictures taken with the characters and we can spend the time with the other great things..my children LOVE breakfast so it will be money well spent....

english rose 47
10-03-2007, 08:14 PM
It will be interesting to see if there is a drop in people using DDP in 2008. You are right that an entree and dessert is plenty but I'd still like to see a choice between appetizer and dessert. There are plenty people out there that cannot have sugar.

I totally agree I like the appies much more usually but sometimes ther is a dessert just crying out to me. For couples or more the choice would be great as 1 could have dessert and 1 appie and share!!I'm hoping that they make that change

bicker
10-04-2007, 03:52 AM
I wonder how much more folks will be willing to spend for that choice. Would it be worth a $3 per day increase in price for the option? That's probably what it would cost in today's dollars (so if they do it for 2009, it would probably be more than that).

mickeysgirl17
10-04-2007, 08:57 PM
I too, am upset about the changes to the regular dining plan. I can't believe they are doing away with the appetizers and now we have to pay tips and they only reduced it $1. We loved not having to carry money with us for meals!!!

Therefore, we will not be doing the dining plan next trip. We are actually gonna try the deluxe plan. Unfortunately, we'll still have to carry money for tips, but at least we get appetizers and can try new places.

bicker
10-05-2007, 04:29 AM
I suspect that this is very likely one of the desired results Disney was aiming for: Folks deciding to go with the Deluxe Dining Plan.

Have a great time.

mousecatcher
10-06-2007, 06:42 PM
I can't wait to see how this goes over in 2008. I agree with bicker that those smart marketing folks at Disney knew they would get people to enjoy the convenience of the DDP and then change to a more profitable set of rules.

Nadine&Scott
10-06-2007, 08:01 PM
We will do DDP for the our 2 day stay in November but not our 9 day stay in January. We will get the DDE for that trip. I believe Disney will see a great drop off in DDP for 2008. People like the gratuity included portion more than an appetizer and that is what will keep most people from adding DDP. I'd be betting Disney sweetens DDP for 2009 but not back to the 2007 version.

Scott

bytheblood
10-06-2007, 08:04 PM
We will do the DDP for our upcoming trip, but it will be the last one. I will go back to OOP dining. :)

bytheblood
10-06-2007, 08:13 PM
I think when Disney sees the drop in ddp and the drop in on site bookings they will rethink this change. For me it still is fine not awesome like it was. Let's face it you don't have to tip and an entree and a dessert is plenty. I'm not saying I wouldn't tip but I don't have to!!


Unfortuantely, I don't think this will make a difference, for several reasons.


As hard as it is to admit, Disney is all about making money. They are a corporation. They were not making as much on food due to the dining plan. Disney does not care how happy people are as long as they are turning a profit. There are many people who could care less about the dining plan or do not know about it, so, Disney will still make money from those people.

Everybody complained about Disney waiter service/quality being so terrible due to the DDP and waiters knowing they will get their tip regardless of how well or poorly they do their job. Well, Disney is doing something about that. Tips are not included, now the waiters will get paid based upon their service and performance.

nboicepardee
10-06-2007, 09:27 PM
As of January 2008, if there are 6 or more in the party, or they're DDE members, then yes, they will be.

So if you are a DDE member, the tip is added as well? We are thinking about getting the card for our trip in January. I really don't like when the tip is added because I tend to tip more than they usually add, but rarely (very rarely) I would tip less for really lousy service. Also, I usually only tip 12-15% for buffets, but 20% or more for table service.

kimsuenew
10-06-2007, 10:48 PM
I truly wonder if the tip exclusion is a result of all the complaints Disney received about poor wait staff service. Most of the time (on our September trip) our service was really good, sometimes even excellent, however, we did have one Epcot meal that I would have had a hard time tipping much for, as the service was poor (no drink refills, not stopping back, curtly answering questions). It might not be the reason, just a guess!

LoriZH
10-06-2007, 10:52 PM
I truly wonder if the tip exclusion is a result of all the complaints Disney received about poor wait staff service. Most of the time (on our September trip) our service was really good, sometimes even excellent, however, we did have one Epcot meal that I would have had a hard time tipping much for, as the service was poor (no drink refills, not stopping back, curtly answering questions). It might not be the reason, just a guess!


Nahh...it was a monetary decision, it was simply too much money for them to dish out and not getting enough back. Our tip for California Grill was $60 bucks! However, it was two credits and we are all on the adult plan now (you know Mickey Math and how your children become adults when they go to Disney World ;) )

bicker
10-07-2007, 05:48 AM
Disney does not care how happy people are as long as they are turning a profit.I think this misses the point: Disney will still make people happy despite the changes to the Dining Plan, and that's why they'll continue to turn a profit.

Letsbgoofy
10-08-2007, 01:11 PM
I know the changes in the DP are going to change our eating habits. I'm thinking about renting DVC points next year (if I can talk DH into WDW again) and eating many of our meals in our room. We will also eat offsite more often. The nice thing is, we can purchase tickets wherever we want and not feel tied to WDW for the whole trip.

I would love to be able to see the numbers at Disney. The DP was a great way to keep people captive onsite. We didn't visit the beach or other Orlando parks when we had the DP because I didn't want to waste our credits, and honestly it was just easier to stay at WDW the whole time. We also tipped above the 18% the wait staff gets, and ordered drinks at meals. It seems like many people are not going to use the new DP and I wonder how that will effect WDWs profit??

bicker
10-08-2007, 02:20 PM
They're usually pretty-good about exacting every last penny out of us that they can, so I suspect they'll see improved profits from these changes.

Don't you worry about them -- they'll be fine! :)

twinmom108
10-19-2007, 10:48 AM
I know the changes in the DP are going to change our eating habits. I'm thinking about renting DVC points next year (if I can talk DH into WDW again) and eating many of our meals in our room. We will also eat offsite more often. The nice thing is, we can purchase tickets wherever we want and not feel tied to WDW for the whole trip.

I would love to be able to see the numbers at Disney. The DP was a great way to keep people captive onsite. We didn't visit the beach or other Orlando parks when we had the DP because I didn't want to waste our credits, and honestly it was just easier to stay at WDW the whole time. We also tipped above the 18% the wait staff gets, and ordered drinks at meals. It seems like many people are not going to use the new DP and I wonder how that will effect WDWs profit??

We are DVC members too and just returned from WDW and used the DDP. The food was great. We ate at Le Cellier, Chefs de France, Biergarten, Jiko, Boma, Olivias, Donald's Breakfastsauras, Spoodles, & Sci-Fi Dine. and various counter services. Only the Sci-Fi Dine seemed substandard to me. We thouroughly enjoyed it but will not purchase the DDP for our trip in 2008. We will make use of the kitchen in our DVC villa and put our 3 teen boys to work. LOL:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

DVC Sadie
10-20-2007, 09:39 AM
For people like us who never did buy the DDP it will be a relief to finally get into some of our favorite WDW restaurants without having to plan 120 days out. We have been enjoying a lot of the off site restaurants for the last several years.

WDW also received a lot of complaints from guests who went to WDW and were unable to actually enjoy any TS meals due to full capacity.

It will be interesting to see how everything works out next year.

twinmom108
10-21-2007, 05:04 PM
For people like us who never did buy the DDP it will be a relief to finally get into some of our favorite WDW restaurants without having to plan 120 days out. We have been enjoying a lot of the off site restaurants for the last several years.

WDW also received a lot of complaints from guests who went to WDW and were unable to actually enjoy any TS meals due to full capacity.

It will be interesting to see how everything works out next year.

I know Le Cellier is very hard to get into unless you make a ressie many months out. While we were waiting to be seated, they turned away more than 10 families/couples who were walkins that hadn't made a reservation. Even a castmember at AKV said she had been trying to get a reservation at Le Cellier during the last couple months and had been unsuccessful. It will be interesting to see if that eases up for Le Cellier in 2008.

annie1995
10-21-2007, 05:09 PM
It will be interesting to see if there is a drop in people using DDP in 2008. You are right that an entree and dessert is plenty but I'd still like to see a choice between appetizer and dessert. There are plenty people out there that cannot have sugar.

I would also like to see a choice between an appetizer and dessert. I wonder if Disney will do any tweaking of the plan before 2008 begins:rolleyes:

twinmom108
10-21-2007, 05:11 PM
I would also like to see a choice between an appetizer and dessert. I wonder if Disney will do any tweaking of the plan before 2008 begins:rolleyes:

That would be great if they did!:thumbsup2

Tricia1972
10-22-2007, 06:49 AM
I know Le Cellier is very hard to get into unless you make a ressie many months out. While we were waiting to be seated, they turned away more than 10 families/couples who were walkins that hadn't made a reservation. Even a castmember at AKV said she had been trying to get a reservation at Le Cellier during the last couple months and had been unsuccessful. It will be interesting to see if that eases up for Le Cellier in 2008.


I don't think that Le Cellier will change much in 2008. I called at exactly 7AM at 180 days out and struggled to get a reservation for 8 that wasn't at 8:45 pm. I was able to get earlier only by (at their suggestion) making two reservations under two different names, so we have two tables of four.

DVC Sadie
10-22-2007, 07:17 AM
I know Le Cellier is very hard to get into unless you make a ressie many months out. While we were waiting to be seated, they turned away more than 10 families/couples who were walkins that hadn't made a reservation. Even a castmember at AKV said she had been trying to get a reservation at Le Cellier during the last couple months and had been unsuccessful. It will be interesting to see if that eases up for Le Cellier in 2008.

I don't know if we will see a lot of changes in 2008 or if the changes will be more noticible in 2009, but I do think that more families will choose to revert back to their original dining habits pre DDP, which will open up more dining venues, especially places that require 2 TS credits.

bicker
10-22-2007, 07:39 AM
Actually, I don't think the Dining Plan had as much impact on the 2TS restaurants as it did on the 1TS restaurants. I do think, though, that these changes for 2008 will relieve a lot of the problems with accessibility to these restaurants that folks have encountered over the last few years. There will still be some places that will be hard to get into (there always has been) but it won't be as bad as it is today.

Things change every year. Folks should not foster an expectation that things will change so much in the way they'd hope for 2009 -- that's just a good way to set yourself up for disappointment. At this point, it is as likely as not that things will change again for 2009 in the same direction as they've changed for 2008. ... and just as likely that the changes for 2009 will be totally unrelated to the changes for 2008, not reversing any of them, nor driving them further in the same direction.

twinmom108
10-22-2007, 04:27 PM
I really wouldn't be surprised if one of the changes they make for 2009 would be to offer a choice of appetizer or dessert. This would serve those Disney guests better who cannot eat desserts due to medical conditions.

bicker
10-23-2007, 04:43 AM
However, that would undercut what many believe is the main reason for no longer including appetizers in the Dining Plan. I think they'd be more likely to expand the set of options for desserts, to include something that folks with such medical conditions can eat.

twinmom108
10-23-2007, 09:23 AM
However, that would undercut what many believe is the main reason for no longer including appetizers in the Dining Plan. I think they'd be more likely to expand the set of options for desserts, to include something that folks with such medical conditions can eat.

That would be great if Disney could do that, although with so many medical conditions out there it might be difficult for Disney to accomodate the majority of people with those problems.

bicker
10-23-2007, 11:17 AM
Well, I think there is a difference between options that folks with medical conditions "can eat" and options that are designed for such people. A relatively few number of options will cover the vast majority of all medical conditions. They may not be "perfectly balanced" for any of them, but acceptable for all of them, in moderation (of course).

DVC Sadie
10-24-2007, 09:01 AM
Actually, I don't think the Dining Plan had as much impact on the 2TS restaurants as it did on the 1TS restaurants. I do think, though, that these changes for 2008 will relieve a lot of the problems with accessibility to these restaurants that folks have encountered over the last few years. There will still be some places that will be hard to get into (there always has been) but it won't be as bad as it is today.

Things change every year. Folks should not foster an expectation that things will change so much in the way they'd hope for 2009 -- that's just a good way to set yourself up for disappointment. At this point, it is as likely as not that things will change again for 2009 in the same direction as they've changed for 2008. ... and just as likely that the changes for 2009 will be totally unrelated to the changes for 2008, not reversing any of them, nor driving them further in the same direction.

The 2TS restaurants may not have had the same "impact" as the 1TS restaurants but when we tried to book the 2TS they still did not have anything available.

While I do look ahead to 2009 to see what the impact of the 2008 DP will have we will not be disappointed either way. There are so many wonderful restaurants off site that we will eat well.

CathrynRose
10-24-2007, 09:16 AM
my family will continue to use the dining plan as well far beyond 2008. My 2 sons love to eat and I don't mind paying the tips- the waitstaff deserves it after dealing with my family. The fact the new 2008 dp doesn't include an appetizer doesn't bother me one bit because on the old plan which includes the appetizer sometimes it is too much. Having just the entree is fine with us as it is always good and plenty. I am already planning next year's trip- there will be 5 of us and I will include the new dining plan as well as in the past.


I agree with everything you said! :thumbsup2

CathrynRose
10-24-2007, 09:29 AM
As for just being charged for something that they aren't making perfectly clear in the first place, yes this makes me angry. :confused3

I understand your anger - I do.

BUT - If you ordered a 6.95 glass of wine, and they added an 18% grat to it it would be:

$1.25

If you normally tip 15% ($1.04) this is a difference of 21 cents. Twenty One cents! IMO - not worth getting yourself worked up over.

And I always tip MORE then 20% - so as far as I'm concerned, Disney is saving me money tacking on 18%. :laughing:

northie
10-24-2007, 09:40 AM
I really wouldn't be surprised if one of the changes they make for 2009 would be to offer a choice of appetizer or dessert. This would serve those Disney guests better who cannot eat desserts due to medical conditions.

When we go out we almost always order an appetizer. We just like them. When we go out we rarely order dessert, unless we are at Disney. This has nothing to do any medical condition for any of us. We just like the appetizers more and when it comes time for dessert we're too full to eat it, so we don't order it. :) I would absolutely love a choice between appetizer and dessert too.

Our server at Le Cellier told us she has heard the same complaint from quite a few guests and she said she wouldn't be surprised if they did change it to a choice, because that seems to be what the people want...I know she is just a server so has no real say in what Disney ultimately does, but Disney would be wise to ask servers what comments they have heard from customers...the servers are, after all, the ones that deal with diners on a day to day basis.

Sara

SamIAm21
10-24-2007, 09:42 AM
I agree...for us the major appeal was the pre-paid, all inclusive part of the dining plan. The cost savings wasn't anywhere near as important to us as the stressfree, no need to carry around cash perk. It felt like when we entered the park, we could use it as we wished without pulling out more cash every 5 minutes...a real perk for my dh especially.

The convenience was definitely the biggest part of DDP's appeal for me. Usually, I go to WDW with my daugther who is seven. In the last year, she didn't really enjoy the Kid's Meal options and I figured I was at the end of my DDP rope anyway. We can do breakfast in the room, pack our own snacks and that will cut out quite a bit of the cost. She's a light eater (bird light) so the portion sizes for the kid's DDP suited her, but the choices are terrible. So, DDP is now a thing of the past and we can pretty much share meals at counter service Cosmic Rays is a great place to get a good dinner meal. They have those 1/2 rotisserie chicken dinners and believe me, that's more than enough for two.

The prices at the new Italian eatery in Epcot are astronomical... I mean, it's pasta. We're talking flour, water, and tomato sauce... Lot's o money for such basic ingredients.

CathrynRose
10-24-2007, 09:57 AM
For me it still is fine not awesome like it was. Let's face it you don't have to tip and an entree and a dessert is plenty. I'm not saying I wouldn't tip but I don't have to!!

:confused3 :sad2: :sad2: :sad2:

KevinYee
10-24-2007, 10:42 AM
I do think, though, that these changes for 2008 will relieve a lot of the problems with accessibility to these restaurants that folks have encountered over the last few years.

I think you're right. I think this is the reason for the change (which, if you think about it, is like a stealth price increase). If the program is so popular that restaurants are overcrowded, it makes sense for park managers to maximize profits by 'increasing prices' (in a stealth way) just enough to keep things full, just not insanely overbooked.

twinmom108
10-25-2007, 08:45 AM
We went to WDW earlier this month and used DDP. The restaurants didn't look too crowded when compared to 2006. We did Sci-Fi Dine both years. In October 2006 we had ADR's at Sci-Fi and still had to wait 2 1/2 hours before being seated. This October we were seated right away at Sci-Fi - go figure. :confused3 One thing we will change is that if we do TS meals in the future we won't do Sci-Fi again because the food was not very good this time - and I'm being nice.

DVC Sadie
10-25-2007, 12:58 PM
I think you're right. I think this is the reason for the change (which, if you think about it, is like a stealth price increase). If the program is so popular that restaurants are overcrowded, it makes sense for park managers to maximize profits by 'increasing prices' (in a stealth way) just enough to keep things full, just not insanely overbooked.

I agree!

When WDW offers fine dining to guests but they arrive and cannot get into a restaurant then WDW has a HUGE problem.

It appears that WDW is trying to alleviate the overcrowding and all of the menu changes that they had to implement for the DDP.

TDC Nala
10-25-2007, 06:39 PM
I really wouldn't be surprised if one of the changes they make for 2009 would be to offer a choice of appetizer or dessert. This would serve those Disney guests better who cannot eat desserts due to medical conditions.

That's why most, if not all, of the restaurants now offer sugar free desserts. So that won't be a consideration with the dining plan.

twinmom108
10-26-2007, 08:44 AM
That's why most, if not all, of the restaurants now offer sugar free desserts. So that won't be a consideration with the dining plan.

That's great. I didn't realize that they offered sugar free desserts at most restaurants. I saw sugar free desserts at Boma, but I didn't notice them at any other restaurants.

musical2
10-26-2007, 09:11 AM
I understand your anger - I do.

BUT - If you ordered a 6.95 glass of wine, and they added an 18% grat to it it would be:

$1.25

If you normally tip 15% ($1.04) this is a difference of 21 cents. Twenty One cents! IMO - not worth getting yourself worked up over.

And I always tip MORE then 20% - so as far as I'm concerned, Disney is saving me money tacking on 18%. :laughing:

I agree with you. I usually tip 20%, but have this stubborn streak in me which refuses to tip more when tip is forced on me. So my family will have to tip the mandatory 18% because there are six of us. The servers lose the extra 2% from me.

twinmom108
10-26-2007, 08:46 PM
I agree with you. I usually tip 20%, but have this stubborn streak in me which refuses to tip more when tip is forced on me. So my family will have to tip the mandatory 18% because there are six of us. The servers lose the extra 2% from me.

If your servers are really good there usually is a line on the bill where you can add additional gratuity when you want to.:)

Tricia1972
10-27-2007, 05:55 AM
If your servers are really good there usually is a line on the bill where you can add additional gratuity when you want to.:)

Unfortunately at this time there is not a line if you are using only the DDP. If we bought extra there was a line, but if we used just the plan it was just a $0 Bill, with no line.

twinmom108
10-27-2007, 07:55 AM
Unfortunately at this time there is not a line if you are using only the DDP. If we bought extra there was a line, but if we used just the plan it was just a $0 Bill, with no line.

You're right my mistake. I did give extra $$ to one waitress (when we didn't order anything extra) just because she was excellent and even more attentive than most servers.