Hong Kong Disneyland admission off - park failes to lure visitors

[crazy4wdw]

HK Disneyland admission off
Theme park fails to lure visitors from mainland

By PATRICK FRATER (Variety)

Hong Kong Disneyland is suffering a slump in admissions in its second year of operation, according to local news reports, at least in part because it's failing to lure enough visitors from mainland China.

The South China Morning Post said the theme park will report attendance of 4million visitors in the year to September. That compares with a forecast 16 months ago by Mouse House HQ of 5.7 million for the park's second year and a pre-opening projection of 5.47 million that matched the forecast of the Hong Kong government.

Neither Walt Disney Co. in Hong Kong nor Hong Kong Disneyland publish visitor data, which they deem commercially sensitive. Last year, in a submission to the HK government, which owns 57% of the park, operators reported actual attendance of 5.2 million.

The newspaper quoted unidentified sources as saying that it's not unusual for theme parks to sustain a drop in attendance in their second year. But it also cited U.S. consultant Dennis Spiegel as saying the park was failing to attract enough visitors from mainland China.

[adabob]

Oh that is not good
Hope they do better

[EUROPACL]

Was this the park they opened as a jr version of Disneyland with only a fraction of the classic attractions?

[crazy4wdw]

Was this the park they opened as a jr version of Disneyland with only a fraction of the classic attractions?

Yep, that's it. It only has about 9 attractions. The only thrill ride is Space Mountain. The park has no Pirates of the Caribbean, Haunted Mansion Big Thunder, or It's a Small World (I think Small World is being added now). Also, it only has four lands: Main Street, Adventureland, Fantasyland, Tomorrowland. Disney built the park on the cheap thinking that the Disney "brand" would be enough to bring in the guests. The Chinese government will not give Disney the approval to build a park in Shanghai until they get the attendance numbers up at the Hong Kong park.

[raidermatt]

Ok...

Animal Kingdom opens with minimal attractions and attendance is disappointing.

DCA opens with minimal attractions and attendace is disappointing.

Disney Studios Paris opens with minimal attractions and attendance is disappointing.

HKDL opens with minimal attractions and attendance is disappointing.


Tell me again why "open small" is a good strategy?

[Another Voice]

Tell me again why "open small" is a good strategy?

Animal Kingom - becasue it's such an amazing "new breed" of Disney entertainment we're just too stupid to get it.

California Adventure - because the park is so hip and cuttin' edge that we're too stupid to get it.

Disney Studios Paris - because the French don't understand the magic of American movies and are too stupid to get it.

Disneyland Hong Kong - because the Chinese have only seen pirated copies of 'High School Musical' and are too stupid to get it.

If people weren't so stupid - all of these parks would be amazing successes! So you can't blame Disney if they are flops.



Gee - thinking like a Disney executive is easy!

[ChrisFL]

I *think* it was a Disney exec that said they're bringing DCA up to "DisneySea or Epcot" levels of quality with their $1+ Billion they're spending.

I found it humorous that they didnt refer to AK, MGM, or Studios Paris when making that comment

[EUROPACL]

Tell me again why "open small" is a good strategy?

The real kick in the pants is the rumors that they want to go even smaller with the Local Disney DVC/Spinner(Vekoma Catalog Page.32)/Waterpark idea. :confused3

[Another Voice]

The whole "billion dollars for DCA!" thing is rather a joke - it was nice spin "leaked" in front of Disney's annual budget process to build up some pressure and support behind the project. In reality, it's simply a ten year capital spending projection that's actually less year-for-year than what Disney was spending in the panic era of Flik's Fair and Tower of Terror.

A sad thing behind the whole show is that Disney executives are so unable to take any risk that they've become paralized by "guest survey syndrome". Nothing happens at the parks anymore without some suit being able to cover their rear ends with a PowerPoint presentation showing "this is what the guests want". That kind of thinking has spread throughout the Attractions business unit to the point where even designers think they gain an edge by presenting fanboi Internet postings as "proof" of that "this is what the guests want". It's now second on the check list behind "tie-in a Pixar character".

The fundemental flaw with California Adventure - and with Hong Kong Disneyland when you think about it - is that the place doesn't have that "I've always dreamed of doing this" feeling. Disneyland and the Magic Kingdom work because they are based on childhod fantasies - exploring a haunted mansion, flying to space, meeting a beloved childhood character. EPCOT represented a trip into the future and the lure of international travel - something most people want to do. People will pay good money to experience a dream that they thought was impossible.

But DCA...there's nothing in the park that you can't do in real life and do so much better. The real Hollywood is an hour away, real hang gliding is a lot more fun than watching a movie...and a better amusement park is just a five minute walk from the phony "seaside carnival" Disney threw up. None of the rumored plans address that flaw. Sure, the phony carnival will look nicer, but what's the fun of virtually throwing virtual pies at a projected image of Woody the Cowboy? I might as well stay home and melt my little green army men.

The same situation for Hong Kong Disneyland. The vast majority of people in the mainland have had little exposure to Disney characters and even less to the parks. Names like 'Space Mountain' mean nothing to them; and when half the park is nothing but character meet 'n greet - Chip 'n Dale ain't a big draw if no one has seen their cartoons. Yes, the old colony of Hong Kong has a lot of Disney stuff, but the sucess of the park required pulling from the other 1,000,000,000 people around.

Disney really does beleive that "Disney" is what they are selling. They're wrong and until they get the difference, it will be one failure after another.

[ChrisFL]

Yes, the old colony of Hong Kong has a lot of Disney stuff, but the sucess of the park required pulling from the other 1,000,000,000 people around.

Disney really does beleive that "Disney" is what they are selling. They're wrong and until they get the difference, it will be one failure after another.

I think the big problem of HKDL is the proximity of Tokyo, if people want to spend the money to go to HK and Disney, they would probably want to spend a little bit more and go to a much better resort overall for Disney.

[crazy4wdw]

Here's the Hong Kong park's stunning array of attracatons:

Main Street
Mickey's Waterworks Parade
Animation Academy
Disney In The Stars (Fireworks)
Main Street Vehicles
Hong Kong Disneyland Railroad

Adventureland
Jungle River Cruise
Captain Jack Sparrow's Pirate Boot Camp
Festival of the Lion King
Tarzan Island

Fantasyland
Mickey's PhilharMagic
The Golden Mickeys at Disney's Storybook Theater
The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh
Mad Hatter Tea Cups
Cinderella Carousel
Dumbo the Flying Elephant
Fantasyland Railroad Station
Sword in the Stone
Snow White Grotto

Tomorrowland
Space Mountain
Buzz Lightyear Astro Blasters
Stitch Encounter
Autopia
Orbitron
UFO Zone

They are currently builidng "It's a Small World" which will include the Disney characters dressed in the attire from the represented countries.

[crazy4wdw]

Here's the Hong Kong park's stunning array of attracatons:

Main Street
Mickey's Waterworks Parade
Animation Academy
Disney In The Stars (Fireworks)
Main Street Vehicles
Hong Kong Disneyland Railroad

Adventureland
Jungle River Cruise
Captain Jack Sparrow's Pirate Boot Camp
Festival of the Lion King
Tarzan Island

Fantasyland
Mickey's PhilharMagic
The Golden Mickeys at Disney's Storybook Theater
The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh
Mad Hatter Tea Cups
Cinderella Carousel
Dumbo the Flying Elephant
Fantasyland Railroad Station
Sword in the Stone
Snow White Grotto

Tomorrowland
Space Mountain
Buzz Lightyear Astro Blasters
Stitch Encounter
Autopia
Orbitron
UFO Zone

They are currently builidng "It's a Small World" which will include the Disney characters dressed in the attire from the represented countries.

[Another Voice]

Very recently, Disney asked the governement of Hong Kong for several hundred million dollars to build a version of 'Pirates of the Caribbean' and related facilities - the government refused saying their taxpayers should not be forced to pay the bill for Disney's mistakes, and that Disney was more than welcome to invest whatever catipal they wish to ensure the project's success. In the mean time, the privatly owned and nearby Ocean Park is enjoying records years.

Tokyo is not really an alternative for the vast majority of Chinese. It's somewhat saying that Disney should close WDW and we can all travel to Paris. The average guest in China can not afford a trip to HKDL, let along make it to the most expensive city on the planet. Second, the cultures are vastly different; people want to go to their park.

P.S. - Isn't the "Disney Waterworks" the fountain out front?

P.S.S. - All during the design and construction of the park, people within Disney joked that this place was so small it would be the first Disney park with a drive-through window.

[disneyfan67]

There's a real possibility that this might be the first Disney theme park to go "belly up". When you look at the list of attractions they have and it's a pretty short list, it's no wonder why the attendance numbers are flat. The mindset of the people behind the planning, designing, and construction of this park must have been: Hey, lets build this thing cheap as we can, those people won't know any difference.

I wonder how much the Disney corporation will be on the hook or responsible for, if this park does go bankrupt and closes? Is it similar to the deal they have in Tokyo?

[Another Voice]

Going "belly-up" isn't possible, and that's what's causing all the problems.

The Hong Kong governement put up over $2.9 billion for the place - that includes the landfill and a new rail line to the park. Disney chipped in only $319 million - yet retains 43% ownership and recieves massive royalty payments and management fees. The huge imbalace already caused a lot of tension between Disney and the local officals; things grew even worse when Bob Iger announced Disney plans to build another park in Shanghai (okay, I know we're not supposed to use that name anymore but I can't spell the city's new offical name).

Disney was looking for Hong Kong Disneyland to be its gateway into the entire Chinese market. At the moment China only allows about a dozen foreign movies a year to be released in the country. Everyone in Hollywood is eagerly waiting for that restriction to ruled unlawful by the World Trade Organization. Disney is frothing at the mouth to get the 'High School Musical' infront a billion set of eyeballs and a Pirate-themed Super Mickey Magic Princess Fairy DVD player on a billion store shelves.

The Chinese government (or more accurately, the section of the People's Army that runs the entertainment and movie distrubitor inside China) can play hardball better than Disney can. Disney can and will be shut out of the market if they don't place nice; the Hong Kong government has a lot of cash invested in its new playland. Neither side can afford for it to close.

[larry_poppins]

After visiting the Hong Kong Disneyland website, it looks like one big boor. Ocean Park looks like a better way to spend the day. It will take more than Small WOrld to get me on a flying sardine can (airplane) to visit HKDL. Now Tokyo is another story, I would love to go back.

[mitros]

Animal Kingom - becasue it's such an amazing "new breed" of Disney entertainment we're just too stupid to get it.

California Adventure - because the park is so hip and cuttin' edge that we're too stupid to get it.

Disney Studios Paris - because the French don't understand the magic of American movies and are too stupid to get it.

Disneyland Hong Kong - because the Chinese have only seen pirated copies of 'High School Musical' and are too stupid to get it.

If people weren't so stupid - all of these parks would be amazing successes! So you can't blame Disney if they are flops.



Gee - thinking like a Disney executive is easy!

Man, I hate being too stupid to get it...........

[ChrisFL]

Tokyo is not really an alternative for the vast majority of Chinese. It's somewhat saying that Disney should close WDW and we can all travel to Paris. The average guest in China can not afford a trip to HKDL, let along make it to the most expensive city on the planet. Second, the cultures are vastly different; people want to go to their park.

I didnt mean Chinese guests specifically, doesn't HK get a lot of tourists from other countries? I was referring more to them

[PBB]

I had the honor of working on the construction of Hong Kong Disneyland. I worked as a Manufacturers Rep for a company that did work on Mickey's Philharmagic at the MK in WDW and HK. I can promise you they worked very hard building the project and spent every penny on the project. It was amazing how they built the project where they built it. In fact, Hong Kong is an amazing city of engineering. I found myself saying over and over again "how did they build that?" from when I stepped off the airplane.

I agree with the comments that the project was built with limited imagination and their should have been more rides to begin with. Disney has got to stop thinking because their name is posted on something people will automatically hand over their money. There is a huge cultural issue with citizens of HK and mainland china. They are still dancing between the two cultures. Their should be enough guests coming from HK alone to fill that park every day.

It still comes down to basic of retail products that Disney has forgotten. Good Product at Good Value. The product has not been that good and the value is too expensive. The same thing is going on here at the US parks. We own DVC and we use to go 2-3 times a year. Ticket prices have gone crazy, food prices are expensive and the park is not in the shape it used to be. The new rides have not been that great. I know they have thrown a lot of money into them, however, they haven't been great rides. I would say that 75 % of the new and renovated rides have been true disappointments in the last 10 years.

Disney has priced everything to the highest retail point on all the products, hotels and services. I have heard alot of people say the pricing is reasonable in NY or LA, however, this pricing is not Main Street USA So, instead of people coming back on a regular basis they are skipping years or not coming back at all. So I guess what I am saying is Disney is focused on Upper middle class and above clients and the majority of HK citizens and mainland China citizens are not on that level of pay. Disney has to remember who made them.......

BTW, HK is wonderful city and I can promise you the hospitality was wonderfull. I stayed in HK and the hotels were better than any Disney hotel I have ever stayed at.

Patrick

[KMovies]

I have to say that I have been to Hong Kong Disneyland and everything that was built is top notch - its just that it isn't a full park. It does lack in attractions. At best it is a one day park that you don't need to return to - until there is significant new attractions.

It's hard to say what is right. Disneyland Paris was built top of the line with endless attractions, and I must say that most every attraction is the best version of all the parks. Yet, it didn't make money (mostly due to overbuilding of hotels).

Hong Kong needs at least twice as many attractions. I feel it will someday meet expectations. But it will take adding Haunted Mansion, Pirates, and more. Small World and Autopia are good additions but not sure if these would have been priority one.

I don't think I have seen whether the resort is making or losing money; just that attendance is lower than expected.

Paris continues to lose money.

[EUROPACL]

I don't think I have seen whether the resort is making or losing money; just that attendance is lower than expected.

Paris continues to lose money.

I don't think a 3+ billion dollar theme park makes money in its second year....reguardless of attendance drop.

[Another Voice]

The real difference about the recent years is really within Disney itself.

The original parks - Disneyland, Magic Kingdom, EPCOT Center - were built by people that loved the parks. Making designs, planning, creating the impossible were what everyone wanted to do more than anything else in the world. The people that built them had confidence in their work and their ability to figure out what people wanted -they were sure of their own success. When the occansional problem happened (like Holidayland), they instantly went about correcting the situation.

The modern parks - from Disney/MGM Studios through Hong Kong and DCA are all business deals. The managment behind them don't even like theme parks in general, let alone get excited about making one of their own. Passion and pride has been replaced with calculation and marketing. No one really cares if the public likes the places or not - it's nothing but a business problem to solve.

[raidermatt]

Paris continues to lose money.

As you noted, the primary problem with EuroDisney was the overbuilding of hotels, not the park.

It was also a questionable location, thought they had managed to get things going in the right direction until they opened Disney Studios Paris, which of course was woefully underbuilt. That's what plunged the resort back into trouble.

PBB is right in that the fundamental problem is one of value. Of course you can screw things up in other ways, but if you lack what the public deems to be a strong value proposition, it's going to be an uphill climb from day one.

[PBB]

Certainly, the people I met at WDI did care about the projects. however, I think the imagination or the opportunity to be creative is gone that is for sure. They are building cookie cutter projects and rides now. All the rides at HK have already been built elsewhere. So, HK does not have any stand alone or signature rides.

I think Disney is still having a problem of forcing the "Disney" way down the throats of consumers in foreign countries. They failed in France and it sounds like they are struggling in HK.

I still believe that they should lower the prices across the board and make it up with volume sales. However, Disney would rather raise prices and watch attendance go down for some reason and have a half empty park, hotels that are not at capacity and a public perception problem.

Don't get me wrong, I have been a huge Disney Fan since the first time I went in 1971. However, when Eisner came in it became a business of short term P/L and 20% returns and stopped being the Disney we all grew up with. The 80's we all fell in love that our company was doing so great then the beast came in the 90's. The Disney Decade was the death to the parks as far as I was concerned.