"Reeks of contempt"--thanks for saying it, Pete

[Praying Colonel]

I echo Pete's comments about the recent announcement on price increases generally and changes to the basic DDP specifically. The $1 decrease in price on the basic plan is a joke when one considers that they lopped off major parts of the plan (gratuity and appetizer). The actual cost to the guest is now much greater because we'll have to pay OOP for those items.

A question was raised on the podcast as to what we guests would do in response to price increases. For our family, the changes in the DDP mean that we'll probably be staying offsite and eating most of our TS meals offsite. That's how we did things before the DDP came out. The DDP made us willing to pay more to stay onsite in exchange for receiving what was a good value and good experience for our family in the DDP. Now, the cost to our family of having to pay OOP for appetizer and gratuity makes the DDP not a good choice for us. And if that's the case, then it's much less likely that we'll stay onsite when we can get more room for less money staying offsite in a condo or vacation home. So we'll still keep coming to WDW, it's just that our experience will be different--and Disney won't be getting our resort or TS business. I'm sure Disney will struggle along somehow. ;)

I'd rather they either raise the basic DDP price and keep the amenities the same, or reflect the loss of value and reduce the price of the DDP accordingly--down to 32.99-33.99/day or so. The token $1 decrease in price does nothing to offset the increase in OOP cost and is really an insult to the intelligence of the WDW guest. It is contemptuous. Thank you, Pete, for telling it like it is.

[rlduvall]

I totally agree. I hate to admit that I am becoming a little disillusioned with Disney. I certainly understand they are a corporation and of course I want them to make a great profit . . . BUT, they just came off one of their best years yet . . . so in response they raise ticket prices, increase resort prices and pretty much insult us with the changes to the DDP. I dare say Disney will lose some of my dollars (well, not all, I'm not about to cut my nose off to spite my face;) ) for the next several years. I have always found Disney to be a great value compared to other destinations. Not so much now. :confused3

[calypso*a*go-go]

Here's the problem -- people are still thrilled to death with the DDP! I can't believe I've read so many threads about guests that were calling Disney everyday to see if the 2008 packages were bookable yet. Instead of being upset that so much was taken away without anything in return...they just said: "that's okay, we don't need the appetizer anyway" or "this is great -- now the CM serving us will really have to work for their gratuity". Plus I think the thing I am the most disappointed in is the standardizing of all the menus. If you look at the selections now, every place serves basically the same thing: a steak, a salmon, and a pasta that can have chicken or shrimp added. For instance, if you compare the menu at Olivia's to Concourse, the appetizers, entrees, and desserts are almost identical. It's craziness I tell ya! :sad2:

[nextidiot]

Calypso, you're absolutely right. I wonder when people will decide it is not worth the money and decide to go to other destinations instead.

I have never visited a Beaches resort. For about the same money as what I am paying Mickey, I can sit on a beautiful tropical beach for a week while sipping adult beverages :drinking:and listening to steel drums. :cloud9:

I am really glad my trip will be over before the changes. I would have been pissed.

There are several Cedar Fair and Six Flags parks within a 5 hour drive of here. I could tour them all, stay in an upscale resort, and still have money left for a new plasma or something. I won't say this will be my last trip, but I will consider other options very carefully before deciding on Disney in the future.

Hey mouse! Get your hands off my wallet!:furious:

[willis37862]

Here's the problem -- people are still thrilled to death with the DDP! I can't believe I've read so many threads about guests that were calling Disney everyday to see if the 2008 packages were bookable yet. Instead of being upset that so much was taken away without anything in return...they just said: "that's okay, we don't need the appetizer anyway" or "this is great -- now the CM serving us will really have to work for their gratuity". Plus I think the thing I am the most disappointed in is the standardizing of all the menus. If you look at the selections now, every place serves basically the same thing: a steak, a salmon, and a pasta that can have chicken or shrimp added. For instance, if you compare the menu at Olivia's to Concourse, the appetizers, entrees, and desserts are almost identical. It's craziness I tell ya! :sad2:

I know I am shocked by this too....they aren't stopping to do the math and seeing that the savings just aren't there once they drop the tip and the appetizer. If they wanted to do away with these then the price for the DDP should have dropped more than a measle $1 :sad2: thats all a 18% tip and appetizer are worth :confused3 As long as people let Disney do these kinds of things they will....people need to stop and think about it instead of just blindly buying into Disney is giving us a great deal :rolleyes:

[raidermatt]

I was considering starting a "I'm with ya' Pete" thread myself. Thanks for doing it, Colonel.

I also see the posts from those who still want to book the DDP and I just shake my head. We never used the DDP because it wasn't a good deal for us, especially when you factor in the savings we could get from the Disney Dining Experience card. Better value and more flexibility.

Even under the current version of the DDP there are many people using it just because it's there. But at least the math works out if you assume you would have eaten at the same places anyway.

Now, though, with the changes, it's an absolute joke. Depending on the restaturant, you're looking at over a 30% net increase in price. 18% for the tip (+ or -, depending on what you tip), another $5-12 for the appetizer, with only a $1 decrease in price to offset it. And the 18% is 18% of what the food would cost out of pocket, not the Dining Plan price. In many cases you will actually pay MORE than 18% more.

But it's not just the dining plan. This is how Disney operates in general these days. This is just a very extreme example. I'm not going to start ticking off other examples because I don't want to turn this into a whine-fest. But the reality is the changes in the DDP shouldn't really surprise anybody. Perhaps the degree to which they are changing things so quickly, but in general, it's what Disney does. They put something out there that looks like a decent deal, and then they start to squeeze.

[Lovinlifesooomuch30]

I couldn't agree more !!!! I just heard that podcast a few minutes ago and I was so glad that he said that. That sums it up ! It really is a shame how some of these changes are going down. :sad2:

[skater]

Its so refreshing to read this thread. I'm afraid to post on some of the other ones. Its seems like some people are saying sure, let me bend over Disney so you can kick me again :lmao: . And those people are angry at anyone who is upset with so many big changes/increases at once. I'm not whining about it (well, maybe a little :goodvibes ), but somehow it just feels disappointing to me. On some level, Disney has been like going home and I think its natural to feel upset and maybe even a little let down by Disney for the decisions they've made. And I too feel insulted by the $1 decrease. I won't quit going to Disney entirely, but we will probably go somewhere else next year and when we do go back, our trip will most likely look a little different (maybe off-site, more CS food, etc.).

Just a qualifier - we are getting free dining for our upcoming trip, but the changes will certainly affect my girls only trip in March, and I may feel differently about returning if Disney offers enough incentives next Sept.

[dpuck1998]

Another side note about the DDP. I feel like that since it was introduced the food has gotten worse and worse. Dining at Disney is one of the things we enjoy the most, but as you'll notice with many of Kevins reviews, getting a good meal seems the exception not the rule anymore. For us that means we are eating less table service and more in our DVC room or offsite. Hopefully it comes full circle again or they get rid of the DDP!

[Disneybridein2k3]

I agree with everyone else on this one BUT did want to share of bit of unofficial info on the wine pkg:

The last major change will probably be the addition of a Magic Your Way Plus Wine package. For $39.99 per night you may order a bottle of wine at your Disney restaurant or from a location on property that sells wine (like resort stores). It can not be purchased separately and may only be an add-on to a Dining Package. There are still a lot of details to work out on this including if there will be a special wine list to order from or a dollar limit. Sounds like if you are at a Signature Restaurant that takes 2 Table Service credits, you will also be charged 2 Wine credits if on the add-on plan.
Again, this is UNofficial information. Look for Walt Disney World to officially announce the 2008 packages and dining options in August.

So if this is true, you can share your wine with anyone you want, Pete! I also heard on Lou's podcast that you may also be able to take your bottle with you if you can't finish it during dinner. I still think this is going to be a terrible value. We are also participating in the "free" dining this Sept but I can guarantee you that we won't ever buy into the dining plan. The dining plan did have some value before and it was nice to have TS options, but that is not how we normally do WDW. I know it is great for the foodies, but that just seems like so much time. I've been "taken out for a walk" on another dining thread but my opinion doesn't change - for those that want to spend so much time in the restaurants, that's great! It means shorter lines at the attractions for me! :goodvibes

[nextidiot]

We never used the DDP because it wasn't a good deal for us, especially when you factor in the savings we could get from the Disney Dining Experience card. Better value and more flexibility.

I am betting that will be going away at some point, too. Before long, we all will have to buy the DDP if we want to eat at an on site restaurant. NO DDP? NO SOUP FOR YOU! :rotfl2:

[drakethib]

Havent been able to keep up here lately but if they DDP is only cut by $1, that is indeed an insult.

I think the DDP was a good value, now I see no savings at all.

Afte 2007, I doubt that we will ever use it again.

[Code]

The $1/day price decrease is a token gesture that feels more like a slap in the face.

[DaParkers]

This question is for the OP. I was just wondering if he ever worked with a Mrs. Padgette (spelling may be off)? If so, please look at my profile picture and tell me if you remember the woman.

[ADP]

I never really thought the Dining Plan was that great of a deal. It did save you a little money, but not anymore. To be honest I think so many people were leaving Disney World with credits they never used. That in itself is a waste of money. I also believe guests did not understand how to use the Dining Plan. Guests were using all of there credits for character breakfasts instead of going to Le Cellier and getting the filet or NY Strip. If you didn't use the Dining Plan correctly you could lose money with the Dining Plan.

The DDE will always be the way we go; however, I'm sure Disney will catch onto the DDE and raise the price for that as well.

[northie]

The biggest advantage to us was that food was paid for before we got there, and I admit we ordered things to try them we might not have if it was OOP. We really enjoyed it! Less cash to carry around, less charges on the credit card since food and tip were already paid meant more to spend on souvies! And if they are going to take something away, at least let us choose between appetizer or dessert! I would rather have the appetizer...or one of us could get an appetizer, one of us get dessert and split it. Dang it.:rolleyes:

And to the poster who said the $1 price reduction was a slap in the face, I feel exactly the same way. I CAN ADD! This is not a good deal! :sad2:

To the Soup Nazi poster, you gave me a huge chuckle! :lmao:

Until they pry my DDE card out of my hands I guess that's what we will use in 2008. We booked two packages this year to get the dining plan, but guess we will be looking for AP rates on room only bookings in 2008.

Chant with me: AP RATES IN 2-0-0-8!

[KevGuy]

You aint kidding about the $1 reduction being a slap in the face I totally agree too. :thumbsup2 But from my understanding it is not just Disney. I just don't see how the wait staff union thinks that removing the 18% tip is going to be better for them. I'm thinking that most people will tip 15% now which is typically standard most places from what I have seen unless they really show tremendous service which would get them probably 20% on the rare occasion, so in the end they will get 3% less in my mind. How is that better for them to want this? I can't wait to see the face on a server the first time I get horrible service and leave a shiny new penny for them. :confused3 The old way they would have gotten their 18% no matter what the service was. I just don't see how that is better for them.:confused:

[kcminnie]

A server posted over on the DDP board that he feels he will make more money now that people will be tipping out of pocket. He said most people tip 20% and round that figure up. So if my tip should be $18.50 he feels most people would leave a $20 bill. I don't know about anyone else but my family would never order the amount of food that we ordered on the dining plan. This increased the overall total of my bill. If we are paying out of pocket for my family of 5 we will only order 1 or 2 appetizers and usually no desert so my bill will now be less and tip will be less. I was also surprised how many people just wanted their dining paid in advance even if it wasn't cost effective. We also will stick with the DDE card.

[DVC Kathy]

I so agree with the "reeks of contempt" comment. Cut the appetizer, eliminate the tip, and charge a dollar less. That is ridiculous.

I had toyed with trying the DDP in December when we're at BWV, but it just doesn't fit with the way DH and I eat. We like to hit a couple of signature restaurants, which aren't a good deal under the current plan, let alone the new one. We like Fresh and Kimono's which (obviously) aren't part of the plan. We even go off property a time or two, to the Ale House, or Bahama Breeze. We use the DDE card, and DVC discounts at Fresh and Kimonos.

To me, the dining plan would make me spend too much time planning how to eat too much food. As of January, it won't even be a good financial deal - and the restaurants are getting more and more alike - and boring.

Kathy

[cxcelica]

Discussing the Dining Plan and Dining Situation in general, I think that Both John and Kevin's predicitions on the previous podcast will be pretty much accurate.

I don't think that these new dining plans, the wine and dine and the "deluxe" dining plan, the one with breakfast, lunch, and dinner will be around that long. I may be wrong, but it just does not seem that there will be enough people for it to appeal to.

Secondly, I think Kevin is right on with the eventual requirement of either some sort of credit card deposit or hold with your reservation. This I think might actually be a good thing. As long as they give you a reasonable window of opportunity to cancel your reservation without being penalized, it seems like a good idea, although it does have its pros and cons.

[willis37862]

A server posted over on the DDP board that he feels he will make more money now that people will be tipping out of pocket. He said most people tip 20% and round that figure up. So if my tip should be $18.50 he feels most people would leave a $20 bill. I don't know about anyone else but my family would never order the amount of food that we ordered on the dining plan. This increased the overall total of my bill. If we are paying out of pocket for my family of 5 we will only order 1 or 2 appetizers and usually no desert so my bill will now be less and tip will be less. I was also surprised how many people just wanted their dining paid in advance even if it wasn't cost effective. We also will stick with the DDE card.

Absolutely....DH and I usually don't order appetizers and desserts so our bill will be less and therefore the tip will be less. I can't believe that the waiters think they will make more this way :confused3 I know too many people who think 10% is a good amount to tip on good service. :rolleyes: We tip 18%-20% on good service....so I hope they are ready to work for it now.




Secondly, I think Kevin is right on with the eventual requirement of either some sort of credit card deposit or hold with your reservation. This I think might actually be a good thing. As long as they give you a reasonable window of opportunity to cancel your reservation without being penalized, it seems like a good idea, although it does have its pros and cons.

I agree. As long as there is a reasonable time frame to cancel I would be willing to reserve PS with a credit card especially if it cuts down on people taking as many as they can so they can choose what they want later or just not show up. :mad:

[dpuck1998]

I agree. As long as there is a reasonable time frame to cancel I would be willing to reserve PS with a credit card especially if it cuts down on people taking as many as they can so they can choose what they want later or just not show up. :mad:

If you can cancel 24 or 48 hours out, people will still hold several ressies I would imagine. I suppose at least it would open them up 24-48 hours for people onsight to snag them...

[willis37862]

If you can cancel 24 or 48 hours out, people will still hold several ressies I would imagine. I suppose at least it would open them up 24-48 hours for people onsight to snag them...

Well then have a cancellation policy that requires a 30 day cancellation or a penalty. Most of us know 30 days out if we will have to cancel...what is WDW cancellation policy on rooms? Isn't it 30 days or you lose your deposit?

[dpuck1998]

Well then have a cancellation policy that requires a 30 day cancellation or a penalty. Most of us know 30 days out if we will have to cancel...what is WDW cancellation policy on rooms? Isn't it 30 days or you lose your deposit?

That would be HUGE for dining though. I think the 24-48 hr policy is more along the lines of what is likely. They have this is place I know for the Fantasmic Package and some other dining plans.

[cxcelica]

If you can cancel 24 or 48 hours out, people will still hold several ressies I would imagine. I suppose at least it would open them up 24-48 hours for people onsight to snag them...


I imagine this is more likely what Disney would do, and you are correct I am sure that many people would still hold the reservation until the the last minute they could cancel. But at least it would still give those people who are walkups a better chance of snagging a table. It seems that the two major complaints you hear about the DDP is that it makes it very hard to get the reservations you want in advance, and it has almost eliminated the spontaneous walk up to a restaurant. At least one of the problems might get better with a policy like this.

[JustSayin]

I don't really think it "reeks of contempt". I do think that the 2008 dining plan is a terrible deal financially speaking. I really think that you would have to jump through some very specific hoops to make it have any value whatsoever. I am actually not convinced that you can make the 2008 make any financial sense at all, but I have not run through enough simulations to be certain. The problem is that too many people are just prepared to swallow it. If people like the new plan and are willing to pay for it then I guess I can’t really criticize Disney for this one. I, on the other hand, will vote with my dollars and not purchase the plan in 2008.

Nobody is required to buy the DDP. You are totally free to pass on it if you believe (as I do) that it is a terrible deal. I honestly think that the 2008 DDP is all about minimizing the expense to Disney during the free dining promotions. I think that anybody who chooses to pay for it is just icing on the cake for them.

All the other increases are just Disney responding to market demand. If they can still fill the resorts and parks at the new prices, then why wouldn’t they? Never forget that Disney is a corporation that has a responsibility to make money for its shareholders. You can bet that this price increase trend will slow/reverse if people stop seeing the value of a Disney trip.

[raidermatt]

No need to play the "Disney is a corporation" card. I think we all realize that. Many of us work for corporations and are very aware of what it means to be responsible to shareholders.

However, there are different ways to go about making money. Charging as much as you think you can get away with at a given time is one pricing strategy, but it's hardly the only one.

One danger of that strategy is that if you miscalculate and enough people stop seeing the value of a Disney trip, it's not as simple as lowering the price again. As all corporations know (and should keep in mind), it costs a lot more to get a customer back than it does to keep him in the first place.