Just returned from Universal -

[Disneycrazymom]

:thumbsup2

I was completely surprised by how much I liked it! We stayed on-site and had FOTL. That is the best on-site perk ever!

The rides were honestly very good. Believe me I didn't want to think that, but really, now, most of the Disney rides just seem outdated. Spiderman, Jimmy N, Men in Black, ET, the Dinosaur splash ride were all really good rides for our whole family to ride together.

I am posting here to see what you all think. I think Disney may be at risk of losing some of it's core audience. Especially with the new ticket and hotel price increase. I know our family will split our week from now on. No way we could go as far as Orlando and not head over for a few days now that we have seen how good it is! Or possibly just spend our vacation at Universal for the 7 day $85 ticket. These are words I NEVER thought I would use in this order! But seeing is believing.

Is Disney worried? Enough to make some improvements and updates?

[Metro West]

:thumbsup2

I was completely surprised by how much I liked it! We stayed on-site and had FOTL. That is the best on-site perk ever!

The rides were honestly very good. Believe me I didn't want to think that, but really, now, most of the Disney rides just seem outdated. Spiderman, Jimmy N, Men in Black, ET, the Dinosaur splash ride were all really good rides for our whole family to ride together.

I am posting here to see what you all think. I think Disney may be at risk of losing some of it's core audience. Especially with the new ticket and hotel price increase. I know our family will split our week from now on. No way we could go as far as Orlando and not head over for a few days now that we have seen how good it is! Or possibly just spend our vacation at Universal for the 7 day $85 ticket. These are words I NEVER thought I would use in this order! But seeing is believing.

Is Disney worried? Enough to make some improvements and updates?I'm glad you had a good time and enjoyed yourself at Universal. It's funny that so many Disney people simply won't go because of some silly misconceptions or they would feel disloyal or whatever. I never understood that one! :confused3

Anyway....again....glad you had a good time and will be back again! :thumbsup2

[toaster6.54]

The FOTL priviledge is great - if you have it. If not, it can be infuriating to watch people exit a ride and run right back in repeatedly while you move up about 6 feet with each ride cycle.

US/IOA does have some great rides, when they work. We've been stranded on ET many times, once for over 45 minutes. MIB is always hit or miss.

[rpbert1]

Glad you had a great time. I love US and IOA. Last year we stayed at Universal 1 week and Disney for 2 weeks, we went this year and only done US IOA and Sea world, as we where at Disney last year. We stayed on site for the 3 weeks, not that we where at the parks everyday for the 3 weeks, but FOTL and being able to walk over to the parks makes them more enjoyable and not an endurance.
Next year DD wants to go to Disney parks for a week, so still deciding but at the minute we are planning to stay at Universal again ,and if we get Disney tickets will drive down rather than stay on Disney property.

[Slothman23]

It always drives me crazy when people act like you can't enjoy both resorts. They're good for each other. The competition drives them both to want to improve their parks and that is always good for us.

[Wick]

Was this your first US/IOA trip?

I've had FOTL before and yes it is amazing! Initially it may seem like it puts Disneys FP system to shame; after my first US/IOA trip, I found myself asking how could Disney ever compete with FOTL?

Consider the sheer size difference between US/IOA and WDW with respect to on-site accomodations. US/IOA can allocate FOTL access so easily because they only host 3 hotels (currently), while WDW has 25+.

But it's not like you can't enjoy both! US/IOA has some great attractions. I just prefer not splitting up my visit because, to me, WDW still has the advantage of making you feel like you're really in another world (as Walt so aptly planned it to be). US/IOA just doesn't wield this same effect, though you still have an awesome time there.

[KPOP]

FOTL = ???

Thanks

[toaster6.54]

FOTL = ???

Thanks

Front Of The Line

All US/IOA guests staying at one of their three on property resorts get FOTL for their length of stay.

[Wick]

FOTL = ???

Thanks

Front Of The Line is a perk of staying at a US/IOA resort where guests literally show their room keycard to the attraction attendant and they can go in thru the back. It's like an unlimited fastpass with no time restrictions.

[doubletrouble_vb]

I don't think Disney is worried yet but I do think they ought to be worrying about it. Right now I have a 2 year annual pass to Universal purchased for next to nothing. Unless Disney makes some serious changes I'll be back to my old Orlando vacation mode of half Disney half something else...or even worse 1/3 Disney, 2/3 something else...there is quite a lot to do in Orlando these days. And part of that third will be at a Disney water park or Disney Quest. Disney hasn't given me a big enough reason to behave otherwise except for the Food and Wine Festival.

At the same time Universal occasionally takes a page from Disney's book and stands still on new rides and maintenance. To me it doesn't make sense for the other guy to screw up and act like you but that seems to be Disney's plan.

[G8RFAN]

I don't think Disney is worried yet but I do think they ought to be worrying about it. Right now I have a 2 year annual pass to Universal purchased for next to nothing. Unless Disney makes some serious changes I'll be back to my old Orlando vacation mode of half Disney half something else...or even worse 1/3 Disney, 2/3 something else...there is quite a lot to do in Orlando these days. And part of that third will be at a Disney water park or Disney Quest. Disney hasn't given me a big enough reason to behave otherwise except for the Food and Wine Festival.

At the same time Universal occasionally takes a page from Disney's book and stands still on new rides and maintenance. To me it doesn't make sense for the other guy to screw up and act like you but that seems to be Disney's plan.
Last month, we bought the 2 year AP's for US/IOA also for about a third of what it cost us to renew our PAP's at WDW. I've always liked IOA for the higher thrill ride quotient, but this is the first time I committed our family with AP's there. The value of staying at their resorts for the unlimited FOTL is enormous and I was surprised to see that the room keyes came with charging privelidges. Not sure if I would like to see FOTL at WDW, just due to the sheer size of their room inventory. Just imagine how nuts the FP lines would be. SW is another great bargain with their fun pass for a few bucks more than a one day pass that is good for the rest of the year.

[larry_poppins]

I, for one, am looking forward to Harry Potter arriving at IOA in 2009.


Larry

[yensidretlaw]

We always love our Disney Vacations. We can do the original Universal Park in 1/2 a day and not being a big thrill rider, the Islands of Adventure is not something that draws my attention. Now come 2009, I will be venturing off Disney Property right over to the new Harry Potter Park!

[Tissa]

I'd never thought I would say it but next year we are doing Universal/beach and skipping WDW :scared1:
My WDW AP will expire in October and I will not be getting a new one. I have already bought us the Universal AP with the 2 year deal.

I'm not saying that we will never return to WDW, it still holds a special place in my heart but I just do not feel that I am getting what I pay for any longer.

I do not expect Universal to be WDW but then again I'm not paying WDW prices either.

[Uncleromulus]

I seriouly doubt Disney is "worried". In fact, didn't I just read somewhere that Universal was losing attendance??
Anyway--it's a nice place to go now and then. We stop over there every 3-4 years just to see if anything new that we might like.

[newnana]

My family goes to Orlando every year or so. One year we do only WDW the next year at US/IOA/SW and other area attractions. Doing this keeps things fresh and there's always something new to experience. Disney has many memories for my family, but the kids are older and even though they enjoy WDW, they enjoy going over to check out whats going on at US. Now with HP coming to IOA and Aquatica opening, things are getting very interesting again in that side of Orlando. As for next May, we're taking our 3 year old grandson on his first Disney trip!!! We are taking a side trip to SW so he can see the animals. ( he is enthralled with anything sealike).

[Peter Pirate 2]

The sad thing is that so many people see this as an "us vs. them" thing. But who's us and who's them? Both WDW and USO want one thing from us and we all know what that is.

I look at all of the Parks as opportunities for fun. Universal is great because it's just two Parks side by side with City Walk right there. The bad thing is that very little significant change has happened here since IOA. Of course people who have never been before find it all new and exciting but still you can only take the same ole, same ole for so long. WDW has so much more but it's all spread out and not so easy to just pop in and out making it a pain to really enjoy.

I don't think Disney is worried about USO when the brand new state of the art IOA did virtually nothing to WDW when it opened so there is no way (IMO) that a new land in IOA (Harry Potter) which will be mostly smoke and mirrors anyway (meaning little of substance other than great visual themeing, like already exists at IOA, and a bunch of gift shops). We already have heard how few actual attractions there will be...

The point is that neither company is benevolent and neither care about any of us to any degree that reaches any further than getting us to part with our money. That's it.
pirate:

[Another Voice]

The sad thing is that so many people see this as an "us vs. them" thing.
It was bound to happen when Disney stopped being a creative company and turned itself into a lifestyle brand.

What the company sells today is the idea that if you associate with Disney, your life will be better. Go to WDW and "experience the magic". Go on the cruise ship and be "magical". Buy this breakfast cereal for a "magical morning". Dress up your daughter as a princess and she'll feel "magical".

A lot of people have bought into this idea. When it comes down to it - buying something to make your life "magical" is a lot easier than fixing the real problems in your life. It’s no different than a cigarette company selling people that smoking makes you subversive and coolly dangerous, that buying this sports car means your man parts are bigger than the guy with a mini van or that weighing over 85 pounds means you’re an hideously deformed woman and bound for an old age surrounded by fifty cats. Disney is selling "magic" to the affluent middle class as an instant cure for their emptiness and unhappiness.

The "logic" is simple: Disney is good. By liking Disney, that makes me a good person. People who don't like Disney are, therefore, less good than I am.

If we had Disney’s Islands of Adventure and Universal’s Animal Kingdom you would see such venom spewed at that stupid half-day zoo with those short carnival rides and all the heat and there’s nothing but plants to look at…the boards would melt were it not for all the praise being heaped on the “magical” Dr. Suess area and the stunning views over the lagoon.

P.S. - Mr. Pirate, if the whispers coming out of the Black Tower are true about the main attraction planned for the 'Harry Potter' area...Disney is in deep and serious trouble.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

The Harry Potter franchise is going to be huge for Universal Orlando. Universal is also finally investing in some new rides over at the Studios too. While they just matched the Disney price increase on 1-day tickets, the multi-day tickets and annual passes are an incredible value and Disney can't touch it. More and more people are including Universal Orlando in their Orlando visit. And each day spent over at Universal is one less day with the Mouse. Disney and Universal are completely different experiences.

BobK/Orlando

[ChrisFL]

If we had Disney’s Islands of Adventure and Universal’s Animal Kingdom you would see such venom spewed at that stupid half-day zoo with those short carnival rides and all the heat and there’s nothing but plants to look at…the boards would melt were it not for all the praise being heaped on the “magical” Dr. Suess area and the stunning views over the lagoon.


:rotfl:

What a difference rose colored and mickey shaped glasses makes

[Peter Pirate 2]

Chris, I hope you're not painting me as the 'rose colored glasses' type guy? That ship sailed a couple years ago.

Mr. Voice, I'm thrilled to hear that I may be way wrong about the HP attraction. It's the smartest thing Universal could do, IMO, but my question is why now? Whose calling the shots re: The Parks and why do they all of a sudden care?:confused3

I also agree with what Disney has become. It is obvious that marketing is the main function of the company. My Disney AP's have been reduced to Seasonal passes. Then there's the complete fiasco surrounding the once great dining and the DDP's, the supperbly underwhelming Studios name change and project announcements...I could get started on ESPN again as well, but I won't - but I'll say I wonder how they got so far up Tiger's you know what without him complaining???:scared1:

Really Voice why do you still care? I mean I can't see any way out of this spiral (in any meaningful sense) and if you do see a positive scenerio please tell me so I can have a little optimism too.:thumbsup2

pirate:

[Uncleromulus]

Well-Potter is certainly "in" now,tho I must say I haven't read any of the books and saw only that first movie. I wonder how long, though, the "fad" will last??
Will Harry have any staying power???

[Wick]

"The sad thing is that so many people see this as an "us vs. them" thing."

It was bound to happen when Disney stopped being a creative company and turned itself into a lifestyle brand.

How does this relate to the issue of "us vs. them"?

I understand your position on the Disney-consumerist-ethos. But Disney turning itself into (as you call it) a lifestyle brand doesn't connect with the perspective taken by those who see the WDW-US/IOA relationship as "us vs. them."

If anything, I would cite Universal as the guilty party of creating the "us vs. them" atmosphere. I can't tell you how many times I've been in US/IOA and have heard CMs take shots at "the rat." And from what I understand, they're encouraged to do this. The sentiments are quietly engrained even in some attractions (I can't remember exactly, but there is one US attraction where the queue has a short pre-show in which the three little pigs get locked up and pinocchio is hung upside down in a box.. perhaps someone can name this for me). It's little things like that which create the us vs. them tension.

[Metro West]

If anything, I would cite Universal as the guilty party of creating the "us vs. them" atmosphere. I can't tell you how many times I've been in US/IOA and have heard CMs take shots at "the rat." And from what I understand, they're encouraged to do this. The sentiments are quietly engrained even in some attractions (I can't remember exactly, but there is one US attraction where the queue has a short pre-show in which the three little pigs get locked up and pinocchio is hung upside down in a box.. perhaps someone can name this for me). It's little things like that which create the us vs. them tension.That would be Shrek 4-D.

[Another Voice]

Whose calling the shots re: The Parks and why do they all of a sudden care?
General Electric does.

Universal has gone through a lot owners in the recent decades; the parks were always just “one of those side businesses” that came with the purchase. Universal has been purchased for its studio, for its music business and lately for its television production operation.

When NBC purchased Universal, the idea was to sell off the park to raise a bit of cash. But NBC’s parent company – General Electric – has had a long experience with theme parks through their association with Disney. They told NBC to wait and look at the business further.

Much to NBC’s surprise, they found the same base ecomonics that power Disney – well run theme parks can be a fountain of cash and a huge marketing machine. So after years of neglect, NBC is going to try and make a go of the parks. When it comes down to it, a major theme park attraction costs about the same as a Hollywood blockbuster…and if Universal can waste $200 million on Evan Almighty, it can certainly afford to spend a big more on Harry Potter.


Really Voice why do you still care?
Because The Walt Disney Company isn’t Disney anymore, but talking to certain writers and producers and filmmakers, it’s obvious that the spirit of Walt Disney still drives the best parts of Hollywood. I want to learn about what made Real Disney special so that I and others can carry on.


But Disney turning itself into (as you call it) a lifestyle brand doesn't connect with the perspective taken by those who see the WDW-US/IOA relationship as "us vs. them."
Universal threatens Disney. It’s not a business competition – it’s just that the Universal parks show there is nothing special about Walt Disney World that others can’t recreate. People don't want to hear that, they've invested their self esteem into their association with Disney.

You’ll read all kinds of postings about how “My DH and I just feel so magical just being on property”. That’s the lifestyle brand issue. Disney has sold the concept that just consuming anything labeled “Disney’s” is a magical experience. When people can have that powerful an emotional attachment to nothing but a brand name, well, the lesser parts of human nature take hold. Universal chides “the rat” out of envy, Disney fans bash Universal out of moral superiority.

[Wick]

You’ll read all kinds of postings about how “My DH and I just feel so magical just being on property”. That’s the lifestyle brand issue.

I agree with you, but I don't necessarily think it can be attributed to the Eisner-era and the corporate Disney of today. One could argue that this lifestyle brand issue goes back years ago, manifesting itself in situations analogous to when Florida approached Disney to help fund a maglev train to run out of MCO. As the story goes, Disney was on board for this project but later dropped it as they didn't want to make any other stops besides WDW. Disney being a lifestyle brand as it pertains to WDW is nothing new and can be traced back to Walt himself in the original EPCOT plans or even when he asserted that "Disney is not my name any more, it is something else."

Whether or not the consumerist-branding idea arises in things like a couple feeling magical just being on property, I don't know. Couldn't it be that people actually feel good being somewhere because of the quality and not due to some act of corporate brainwashing?

[Another Voice]

but I don't necessarily think it can be attributed to the Eisner-era and the corporate Disney of today.
It was a very deliberate and intentional business decision made by the company almost twenty years ago. A lot of time and effort has been put into it - everything the renaming of anything under the sun to be "Disney's" to the projects like DVC and the recent 'Adventures by Disney'. It's no mistake that a former big shot from Nike - the ultimate company for selling image - now runs Disney's consumer products.

And are you really telling me that people staying at Pop Century feel "magical" because of the quality? Notice how quickly the "Disney" statues went up after opening and all the negative reviews. And those giant "Gateways" into WDW are designed specifically to tell you to "begin feeling magical.....now!". Disney knows what they're doing when it comes to selling nothing. How many focus groups do you think it took to come up with something like "Remember...Wishes Come True!"

[Wick]

And are you really telling me that people staying at Pop Century feel "magical" because of the quality?

Granted, Pop Century cannot compete with deluxes like Contemporary, AKL, Poly, etc., in terms of quality. But having stayed at said resorts, including Pop, I can tell you first hand that it is by no means devoid of the classic Disney touch. Sure, you may disagree with the aesthetics and theming; you may even be uncomfortable with the idea of staying at a value resort. But when compared to the other off-site options, I assure you the Disney touch is there. Suffice it to say that children don't know the difference in square footage or so-called cheap design. The magic is there for them and subsequently the families, and that's all that really matters.

And those giant "Gateways" into WDW are designed specifically to tell you to "begin feeling magical.....now!". Disney knows what they're doing when it comes to selling nothing.
So what would you have them do? Not mark off where the property begins? Something tells me that if they didn't have those gateways, you'd be complaining about Disney being too cheap to build a formal entrance.

How many focus groups do you think it took to come up with something like "Remember...Wishes Come True!"
Not too sure, ask Walt it was his idea

[Another Voice]

But having stayed at said resorts, including Pop, I can tell you first hand that it is by no means devoid of the classic Disney touch.
Exactly lifestyle - move the exact building a few miles north on I-4 and replace the giant Mickey Phone with an statue of King Kong and you'd be screaming about how horrible Universal is for shoving such a cheap and tacky motel onto Orlando. There's nothing "Disney" about sixty feet fiberglass spelling out "Do The Funky Chicken" - except what the marketing department tells you is Disney.

"Disney touch" used to mean the way in which Disney designers would use film-making techniques to bring a sense of "heightened reality" or "fantasy" into real world buildings. Now "Disney Touches" means plastering copywrited character designs on square buildings. The former is art, the later is Taco Bell decoration.


So what would you have them do? Not mark off where the property begins?
Worked for more than thirty years. The idea was to give the guests a seperation from the real world. The drive through the woods made Disney seem miles and mile from the rest of Orlando, they wanted you to actaully know you were travelling somewhere.

The arches tell you is that its okay to start spending money now. They are a barrier, part of the "comfort" that you're supposed to feel at WDW - Mickey's invisable force field will bar all but the kind, the good and anyone who can't afford the price. The arches were designed to give the same impression that the gates to an exclusive gated community gives -the feeling that bad things are "magically" excluded so that good (and rich) people can feel safe.

[Disneycrazymom]

I am enjoying this discussion.

I am most likely the typical audience Disney is trying to get into the resort. Middle, maybe upper middle class. 2 kids and we travel several times a year. I up to this year I have insisted on at least a few days at Disney with the kids every year. For several years we spent 9+ days on site and in the parks. But the rest of the family wanted to try some other kind of vacation. The last 2 summers our "big trip" has been a Royal Caribbean cruise. In 06 we still spent 3 days on site and did the parks but this year we stayed on site at Universal instead.

Here is the surprise for me and what I think might be "trouble" for Disney. I didn't "feel" any different at Universal. Is it because Universal has better service? No not really. I think it is more about Disney's being less than it once was. They both are good compared to some vacation destinations but Disney is not the top of the line I expected in the past.

My post was to see what others thought. I have no financial interest in either park. I only see them as a vacation away from the real world. When I choose that for my family I want value, service and a little adventure.

I don't think my finding other vacation options will hurt Disney but I also know that the more people like me that go and don't come home wanting to get back as soon as possible will hurt the bottom line eventually. Will we go back? I certainly hope so! Do I have a trip planned for this year? no. This is the first year in 10 that I have not had one in the works. Our trip after the cruise last Aug 06 was fun but not enough so that we went again this summer.

[Another Voice]

Really Voice why do you still care? I mean I can't see any way out of this spiral (in any meaningful sense) and if you do see a positive scenario please tell me so I can have a little optimism too.
Thinking about it some more, maybe because I’m still just naïve enough to believe that things can be turned around…but we’re the ones who will have to do it.

Frankly, the people running Disney today neither care about nor even like the theme parks. They think they are a bad business for a bunch of silly people, most of whom they would rather not even deal with. Their dislike for the parks finds its way into to there management – there is no management investment into making the parks more successful; there is no concern or respect for guests of the parks. We’re simply just saps handing over our money.

But Disney management are business people. They are interested in making money. Ultimately we’re the ones with all the power.

Mr. Pirate, I’m sure you remember “ye olden days” when the boards were filled with praise for Michael Eisner and dissenting voices were few and far between. Yet over time even the highest levels of Disney finally saw what was happening. At Disneyland, a few voices tried to bring notice to the staleness creeping into Disneyland and its general disrepair. Those voices grew to a chorus and, as attendance fell and the new park was shunned, Disney was forced to respond. And now today, Disneyland glistens under fresh paint, cleaner walkways and even freshened attractions.

There’s no reason why the same thing can’t happen at WDW.

Bit by bit it needs to work. Making reservations for my next trip I was asked if I wanted the Disney Dining Plan. I said no, because the quality of food service on property is so low I expect to eat sit down meals elsewhere. The res agent asked if I wanted Disney Magical Express. I said no, I intended to rent a car this trip – both for meals and because the internal transportation is so bad. When asked if I wanted a length of stay pass, I said no because I intend to spend time at Universal and Orlando rather than half-day parks like Animal Kingdom and Disney/MGM/Pixar/ABC/Hollywood/Toluca Lake Studios. At the same time, I am spending more money to stay at a real WDW resort than one of their cheap motels because I want them to know that is what the demand is for.

Slowly, I know others will act this way. More and more people will find the value of WDW declining – just like Disneyland -- they will visit less frequently and spend less each trip. Restaurants will go empty except for those that only care about eating for free, shops will be well stocked with unsold merchandise. Each morning management will awaken to see the line up cars heading north on I-4 – and all the children in the parks wearing their Harry Potter t-shirts.

There is a hope that someone at Disney will wake up, even for a brief period, and try to fix things even if their only motivation is greed. I know, it’s not a lot to hope for, but it’s all we have left.

[larry_poppins]

Or you can do what I do. Don't spend your money on inferior product like WDW. Put it in the bank, save, invest. When you have enough go to Tokyo Disney and have a real vacation at reasonable prices. Hotels may be higher near the resort, but food, merchandise, and tickets are not. A 4 day ticket for Tokyo Disney is around $150.

[Barbers2005]

Or you can do what I do. Don't spend your money on inferior product like WDW. Put it in the bank, save, invest. When you have enough go to Tokyo Disney and have a real vacation at reasonable prices. Hotels may be higher near the resort, but food, merchandise, and tickets are not. A 4 day ticket for Tokyo Disney is around $150.

Lol...it's not exactly "reasonably priced" when it costs $800 more pp just to get there.

[JawsFan]

I have never understood why people feel disloyal when they are fans of either Disney or Universal and they take a trip to "The Dark Side".....I mean come on...Orlando is all about theme parks and it's no fun if you don't experiment with all of them ;) Personally i love all the Disney parks, Universal & IOA equally :goodvibes :cool2:

[KMovies]

For what it is worth

Attendance at WDW has been going UP

Attendance at US / IOA has been going DOWN

Both are good resorts.

If US / IOA is doing things right (cheap APs, $85 7-day ticket) and WDW not (higher prices, Value resorts) - the results show otherwise.

US spent a boat load of money on IOA; which was all good and fine. But then they stopped spending. It may have made more sense to open with a little less then add back to the park.

Disney Sea - same situation - built fantastic park, but stopped and attendance began to decline. After 4 years, they finally added a new attraction (Raging Spirits and then in year 5 Tower of Terror).

[dwheaton]

This is a great discussion. I haven't been to Universal since I was a kid, but my wife and I will be doing a week off-site in January. We'll be splitting seven days between Disney and Universal. I purchased the $85 tickets to Universal, which are a great value, and had to fork out $260 for six-day passes to Disney (same price as five-day). Even though Disney might have a slight edge in quality, that's quite a difference in prize. Yes, Universal only has two parks, but that's still a really good deal.

I'll have to wait and see what I think of Universal before deciding. I've been a big Disney fan since I was a kid, but have grown frustrated with the constant price increases and the shoving of fake "magic" down your throat. I'm 31 and love amusement parks, but don't care about the Year of a Million Dreams, Pirates, Princesses, etc. I still expect to have a great time at Disney, but hope the stories of diminishing returns aren't true.

Finally, we stayed at Pop Century for a five-day visit in 2005, and it was a good experience. However, I'm looking forwarding to relaxing in a comfortable off-site villa for a price that's better than Pop. We're going to rent a car, and I expect the vacation will be more relaxed and still "magical." I understand the allure of staying on-site, but Disney's coming close to pricing us out of doing it. They need to realize that many people just can't afford to drop thousands of dollars for a week-long stay. Of course, as long as people continue to pack the parks, they'll keep raising prices. Too bad. I still can't wait for the trip, though. I'm looking forward to both Disney and Universal. Should be great!

[Metro West]

This is a great discussion. I haven't been to Universal since I was a kid, but my wife and I will be doing a week off-site in January. We'll be splitting seven days between Disney and Universal. I purchased the $85 tickets to Universal, which are a great value, and had to fork out $260 for six-day passes to Disney (same price as five-day). Even though Disney might have a slight edge in quality, that's quite a difference in prize. Yes, Universal only has two parks, but that's still a really good deal.

I'll have to wait and see what I think of Universal before deciding. I've been a big Disney fan since I was a kid, but have grown frustrated with the constant price increases and the shoving of fake "magic" down your throat. I'm 31 and love amusement parks, but don't care about the Year of a Million Dreams, Pirates, Princesses, etc. I still expect to have a great time at Disney, but hope the stories of diminishing returns aren't true.

Finally, we stayed at Pop Century for a five-day visit in 2005, and it was a good experience. However, I'm looking forwarding to relaxing in a comfortable off-site villa for a price that's better than Pop. We're going to rent a car, and I expect the vacation will be more relaxed and still "magical." I understand the allure of staying on-site, but Disney's coming close to pricing us out of doing it. They need to realize that many people just can't afford to drop thousands of dollars for a week-long stay. Of course, as long as people continue to pack the parks, they'll keep raising prices. Too bad. I still can't wait for the trip, though. I'm looking forward to both Disney and Universal. Should be great!Great post! I hope you have a fun filled trip! :cool1:

[jcodespoti]

Universal was fun when I went. But If I want that experience I'll head to Six flags which is an hour away and have the same thing for a lot less. The rides are the same...just different names.

Joe in CT

P.S. Universal promotes the "us vs. them" attitude...have you seen their commercials?...they're good.

[ChrisFL]

Universal was fun when I went. But If I want that experience I'll head to Six flags which is an hour away and have the same thing for a lot less. The rides are the same...just different names.

I'd hate to break the news to you, but that's entirely untrue

[EUROPACL]

I'd hate to break the news to you, but that's entirely untrue

x2...I have to question if jcodespoti even went to Universal if he thinks that.

[Safari Queen]

We're in about the same place as Uncleromulus. US/IOA every 4-5 yrs to catch the new stuff. We're not thrill ride people and both parks aren't even a full day for us. We really resented having to pay for the equivalent to FP in June but figured we needed to pay it to do everything that interested us. We enjoy some of the attractions very much and Spiderman is the state of the art, I think. Still, there's a lot of lame stuff we'd never do again and no "magic" feeling in the atmosphere or from the employees at all.

[truedisneyfan]

We went to US/IOA before we went to WDW in 2005 (first visit ever for us to either one). I like US/IOA b/c of the roller coasters and thrill rides, but DS(was 13 months when we went) could not do much. We had to do the baby swap so we did not get to ride much together:( At WDW, he could do SO much more:) When they get older we will probably do at least do one day at US/IOA. To me, the people at WDW seemed happier and not so lets hurry and go.

[Metro West]

To me, the people at WDW seemed happier and not so lets hurry and go.That's funny....I find just the opposite. Disney is full of commando parents who MUST show their families everything in one day but the folks at Universal are more laid back.

[Another Voice]

Here's news that really shows the deepth of hatred that the evil minions at Universal Studios have for the pure, gentle and all-good Mickey Mouse.

It seems that Universal Studios Hollywood is kicking out 'Desperate Housewives'. While the show is on Disney's ABC, the series itself shoots both interior and exterior at Universal. Disney long ago tore down it's own backlot (because Michael Eisner wanted to park closer to the Team Disney Building and underlings demanded larger offices than what The Dead Guy had) and let Disney's own facilities good for little more than shooting three camera sitcoms. So Disney is has to go off and film at other studios. The economics of television production really keep shows studio-bound and Warner, Universal, Paramount and others still maintain those types of facilities for their own productions.

Anyway, it seems the NBC-Universal will be moving taping of 'The Tonight Show' from NBC's facilties down the hill in Burbank to the lot a Universal. Where, one guesses, it will become a major attraction on the studio tour. The site Universal has chosen to use is the soundstage occupied by the interiors of 'Desperate Housewives'. Construction of the new soundstage will begin very shortly - so Disney is scrambling to find space for it's fading night-time soap opera.

[schmitty]

Maybe that lemon can be turned into lemonade and the show gets cancelled.

[Wick]

Anyway, it seems the NBC-Universal will be moving taping of 'The Tonight Show' from NBC's facilties down the hill in Burbank to the lot a Universal. Where, one guesses, it will become a major attraction on the studio tour. The site Universal has chosen to use is the soundstage occupied by the interiors of 'Desperate Housewives'. Construction of the new soundstage will begin very shortly - so Disney is scrambling to find space for it's fading night-time soap opera.

That really has nothing to do with US/IOA, but duly noted.

[EUROPACL]

So times I get the feeling that people don't follow the threads they read....heck maybe they don't even read them. :confused3

[Another Voice]

Or that they have such short memories.

There was a real - and very, very bitter - personnel hatred between Disney's CEO and Universal's CEO from the mid-1980's that lasted more than a decade. It was more than just not sitting at the same table at the Oscars party- both companies started phony "citizen's groups" that attacked Universal's plans in the Hollywood Hills and Disney's plans in Burbank. Disney all but accused Universal of arson on the set of Dick Tracy, Universal all but accused Disney is sabotaging their park in Florida, all sorts of dirty tricks being pulled on each other's productions - these were serious men with billions of dollars in resources engaged in a cat fight.

People who think that a joke on the 'Jaws' ride is "us vs. them" really haven't seen anything that happened between the two companies.

[KMovies]

Don't get excited Desperate folks ... the Housewives sets found a new home on the Universal lot.

Meanwhile, a spokesman for Desperate Housewives, complimented Universal for the way it relocated sets from Stage 1 to a different -- and larger -- stage. "It is never easy to move permanent sets and therefore there was initial disappointment and hesitancy," the spokesman told Hollywood Today, "but because it was handled so well we are very happy to have made the change."

[Gonz Of Lancashire]

Disney all but accused Universal of arson on the set of Dick Tracy,


If Universal DID have a hand in the arson attack they need to be lambasted for not destroying everything to do with that film.

[Miss_Nellie]

People who think that a joke on the 'Jaws' ride is "us vs. them" really haven't seen anything that happened between the two companies.


:confused3 I think I must be missing something. Is there a joke on "Jaws" that I missed or am I misunderstanding your post?

BTW - I'm enjoying this thread, very informative. :thumbsup2

[disneyfan67]

I'd hate to break the news to you, but that's entirely untrue



I have to agree with you. In my 5 visits to Disney World, I finally made the decision to go to Universal for 2 days on my last trip. I stayed at the Portofino Bay resort and was pleasantly surprised how good it and the 2 parks were. I don't get all the animosity and dislike toward Universal from the Disney people on this board? I decided that I will no longer make WDW the sole reason for going to Orlando and won't stay exclusively onsite there for 7 to 8 days, like I used to do. I'll split my time between both companies and my vacation will better for it. Universal isn't the greatest thing ever, but it certainly wasn't the run down, dirty, dangerous place some have made out to be. You just have to open your mind and remember that it isn't Disney, so don't be disappointed when you can't find it.

The Portofino had world class dining options, beautiful pools, and a nice staff working at the resort. I will stay there again, especially since I got it at a nice rate, compared to some of the "Disney Deluxe" rates. I also earn points or credits from Loews for staying at their hotels (which give me free upgrades) and welcome home gifts as well, all for free. That's a nice touch, IMO. I'll stay onsite at Universal for 3 days to get the total experience and the FOTL pass, then move over to Disney and do two or three days there. MK and Epcot are about the only two parks at WDW that interest me anymore. I have had my fill of AK and MGM for awhile.

[Another Voice]

Is there a joke on "Jaws" that I missed or am I misunderstanding your post?
Aside from the occasional ad lib from a boat driver, when the ride first opened there were a pair of mouse ears very prominently placed in the wreckage of a boat that has already fallen victim to the shark. I haven't been on the attraction in a while, so I don't know if they are still there. Others have reported Universal characters making comments about guests' Disney t-shirts.

At the same time, there have been many comments about Disney cast members making identical comments to guests in Universal t-shirts at WDW. And there have even been posting at this site about Disney concierge cast members "not knowing" the driving between Disney and Universal and/or refusing to give transportation options.


The Portofino had world class dining options, beautiful pools, and a nice staff working at the resort.
What’s really a good inside joke is that the Portofino is the exact same hotel that was announced as part of the “Disney Decade” in the early 1990’s. It was to have been called the ‘Disney’s Mediterranean Resort’ on the Seven Seas Lagoon just north of the Ticket and Transportation Center. It would have been the exact same “coastal village” design with rooms encircling a bay. The site was long planned for a hotel – in fact the original Phase One plan for Walt Disney World had placed the Venetian Resort on the exact same spot.

I’m sure that everyone knows the original hotels in the Magic Kingdom area were designed to reflect an aspect of the Magic Kingdom and to serve as a background for a land where they could be seen. Thematically, the Venetian/Mediterranean would have represented the turn-of-the-century “Old Country” origin of the residents of Main Street.

But, the Venetian was killed off by the Arab Oil Embargo of the 1970’s that also dashed a lot of WDW’s Phase One; the Mediterranean fell victim to Michael Eisner’s ego (along with most of the Disney Decade). The Grand Floridian Beach (were you can’t swim ‘cause Disney’s too cheap to clean the water) Resort never attracted the free-spending “right type of people” crowd that Eisner wanted (think Paris Hilton’s parents)…and so he canned any plans for upscale resorts and focused instead on the motels. So Disney fired everyone working on the project - and they and all the Imagineers being fired at the same time, promptly marched right over to Universal Studios. They found a happy home there, so much so that it said more years of "Disney experience" went into Islands of Adventure than Disney's Animal Kingdom.

But like a lot of things at Disney, good ideas are hidden away like monks used to hide books in the Dark Ages. Disney’s Mediterranean was finally built as Tokyo DisneySea’s premier resort – the Mira Costa. Google for pictures of that place and see all the wonder that could have been at WDW.

[Miss_Nellie]

Thanks for the info Another Voice.

I didn't notice a set of mouse ears on "Jaws", maybe they're still there maybe not, I couldn't say one way or the other. I only rode it once during the day and the other times were at night.

DS7 wore Buzz Lightyear t-shirts 2 of the 4 days we were there and nothing was said that I heard.

DH wore a Dr. Pepper t-shirt and a handful of TM yelled out "Dr. Pepper!" and then gave him the thumbs up sign.:confused3 Maybe they just like Dr. Pepper?

[Peter Pirate 2]

Go to the Universal discussion board here on the DIS and you'll see the same amount of silliness with regard to snide remarks about Disney (pot calling kettle black). Both of these types of "fans" are guilty of wearing blinders and assuming that they know best for everybody. (For the record I'm an AP holder at both plus Sea World).

Mr. Voice, you know I respect your opinion and knowledge but that comment on the Grand Floridian Beach just doesn't ring true. The beaches at WDW are no longer swimmable due to the warm water ameoba that is prevelent in all Florida fresh water that can be so dangerous to our health (generally entering through the ear canal). As I recall River Country's demise was due to this poor water quality and Diney's unwillingness to upgrade the filtration system of the lake water used at that park.

All three Universal Hotels are great and the dining options over their, while not generally unique (as Disney once was) are chains of superiority, IMO.
pirate:

[Another Voice]

I was waiting for the water thing to show up again.

Generally the critter is question has been around for millions of years. People have been swimming in Florida water since the gaint slothes were all killed off and "Florida" is not Spanish for "Land Where the Water Creatures Crawl Up Your Ears". It likes to live in the bottom muck of still water. It typically doesn't cause a problem unless people are out stirring up the bottom and getting the bug into the normal water.

Notice that Disney has no problem with you going out water skiing, boating or even fishing today in these horrible infested waters.

Disney was very careful when WDW was first built to carefull control all the water flowing around property and isolate itself from all the neighboring streams, lakes and flood plains. Disney also used to set aside 1/3 of the property as the Conservation Area that would also act as a nature filter to remove excess organics from WDW's water system.

The one thing the critter does like is urban run-off. Disney these days is one huge pond of fertilizer, dropped french fries and spilled Coke products all flowing into the water system. Over time all the development on property overwhelmed the original water treatment center (built to handle the MK, the Lagoon Resorts and EPCOT Center). Then the Conservation Area was destroyed to build Animal Kingdom (in Hollywood, that's called "irony").

Disney had planned on a building out a new, capable treatment plant that - along with maintaining Bay Lake and the Seven Seas Lagoon so that bottom muck didn't become a problem - would keep WDW's water safe. Several hundred acres of land was purchased just for the project.

But it turned out that it was cheaper to change the name of the Grand Floridian Beach Resort than it was to stop polluting their own backyard. The project was cancelled and the land sold off. Disney had always been very proud of the fact that it had "cleaned up after its own mess" and had employeed many highly innovative concepts over the year. But that was Real Disney - it's more "magical" just to hook up to the Orlando sewer system and dump the dumps on someone else.

Even today, the last few plots of the "this land will forever be protected as part of Florida's natural hertige" is being bullbozed so Disney can build more cheap motels and trinket shops. You're ability to swim in their lakes has been sacrificed to make Disney more money.

As usual.

[Uncleromulus]

Interesting--
I fondly remember our earlier trips to the Poly where Mrs U and I spent many an hour just lying in that shallow water right outside the resort and watching the world go by.
With no ill effects.

[Peter Pirate 2]

Thanks Voice and I don't disagree but the situation that exists at Bay Lake is the same in virtually all inland lakes in Florida, perhaps for the same reasons, development and while water skiing and such are still done it isn't a real safe sport these days.

I'm not saying Dsieny isn't culpable in their personal situation but the situation isn't strictly as Disney gafffe.
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[Another Voice]

The problem certainly isn't the creation of Disney, but they have choosen not inact a solution for it. Additional water treatment to remove all the additional organic on which the microbes thrive and proper maintenance of the Seven Seas Lagoon (which is man made anyway), could have made the beaches at the Poly and the Grand safe. But safe enough for personal injury lawyers...that kind of question can't be really answered without language that is inappropraite for these boards.

To me the saddest loss isn't the beaches, it was Disney's unique desire to do the right thing. For twenty years they were a leader in "green technologies" long before it was fashionable. Walt and his people were very serious about minimizing WDW's impact and they went to great lengths to acheive it. They uesed to boast the water in the Kissimmee River was better when it left property than when it first entered.

[Peter Pirate 2]

On that I totally agree, AV. In years past they would have done what it takes to be the shining example of being SUCCESSFUL at doing the RIGHT thing.

It's like when Universal built their parking garage. It works for Universal but many Disney folks rail at the mere thought of Disney building a parking garage at WDW (I think DD would be the place, btw)... But to my way of thinking a parking garage by Disney wouldn't (shouldn't) be the ordinary parking garage. It would be built (in my mind) in a way that would have suited everything Disney in some way, shape or form. A parking garage by Walt probably wouldn't resemble other parking structures ... So yes, Mr. Voice I agree that the sad thing is that Disney no longer looks inside itself to do what is right or superior and that is the crux of the matter, IMO.
pirate:

[Another Voice]

I wish you could see the parking structure that Disney built out here for Disneyland. It's a mess. The entire structure was designed wrong - it's opening was delayed because it didn't meet code, it has [u]one[/i] set of elevators for the entire structure (forcing strollers to ride multi-story escaltors of death), and the best part - within a couple weeks off opening they had to shut the entire structure down so the all of the traffic pattern could be reversed - the lanes swtiched directions, the parking stalls had to be realigned, enterances became exits, the whole mess. What was supposed to be a "world class showcase" of easy-in, easy-out parking has become a high speed obsticle course that makes 'Test Track' feel like the 'Autopia'.

Pray that they don't build something like this at WDW. It's well beyond a matter of Disney being cheap, they simply don't care anymore.

[Peter Pirate 2]

I wish you could see the parking structure that Disney built out here for Disneyland. It's a mess. The entire structure was designed wrong - it's opening was delayed because it didn't meet code, it has [u]one[/i] set of elevators for the entire structure (forcing strollers to ride multi-story escaltors of death), and the best part - within a couple weeks off opening they had to shut the entire structure down so the all of the traffic pattern could be reversed - the lanes swtiched directions, the parking stalls had to be realigned, enterances became exits, the whole mess. What was supposed to be a "world class showcase" of easy-in, easy-out parking has become a high speed obsticle course that makes 'Test Track' feel like the 'Autopia'.

Pray that they don't build something like this at WDW. It's well beyond a matter of Disney being cheap, they simply don't care anymore.

Oh, I have seen it and I agree. I'm not saying I want "this" Disney to build a parking garage...I was saying that "Walt's" Disney could have made a parking garage work...But then again Walt was the type of guy who would have cared about such things because I think he didn't do much of anything if he wasn't going to do it RIGHT. Eisner would have done it were he to see a way for it to make him look good, Iger just doesn't care.
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[larry_poppins]

I just wanted to add that something within me died when I could no longer swim in Bay Lake by the Contemporary Resort. To me the lake with the monorail passing by was very magical. A hotel pool could be found anywhere.

[kentear]

I am one of the biggest WDW fans out there. However, IOA is my all time favorite park. Rides are excellent, themeing is great through out, can't beat the special admission prices they always offer, etc. We always devote at least 1 day to IOA every trip. I can't say the same thing for the regular Universal Park next door though. I find it kind of lame to be honest. Not really sure why. Just my 2 cents. :)

[DancingBear]

...forcing strollers to ride multi-story escaltors of deathBe fair, now--who could have anticipated that folks would be bringing lots of kids in strollers?

[Jason71]

Aside from the occasional ad lib from a boat driver, when the ride first opened there were a pair of mouse ears very prominently placed in the wreckage of a boat that has already fallen victim to the shark. I haven't been on the attraction in a while, so I don't know if they are still there. Others have reported Universal characters making comments about guests' Disney t-shirts.

I remember the mouse ears from a few years ago, but have not seen them in a while.

Now most of the Disney jokes are (perhaps not surprisingly) at Shrek. In the waiting room, on one of the walls, there is a parody of the rules for Fast Pass; it's funny enough to look for next time you are there. And the host's sign-off before you enter: "Enjoy your stay in Duloc, The Happiest Totalitarian Kingdom on Earth...well, maybe the second happiest."

[jcodespoti]

If you folks want I'll dig up my Ticket to IOA and scan and display it for you. LOL, to me Six Flags = IOA. Same rides Hulk=Superman (actually Superman was better).

Sure the hotels at Universal are outstanding, no question. But Like I said if I want the whole thrill ride thing, I'll go to Six Flags.

Joe in CT

[ChrisFL]

If you folks want I'll dig up my Ticket to IOA and scan and display it for you. LOL, to me Six Flags = IOA. Same rides Hulk=Superman (actually Superman was better).

Sure the hotels at Universal are outstanding, no question. But Like I said if I want the whole thrill ride thing, I'll go to Six Flags.

Joe in CT

:rotfl2: :lmao: Did you go in, look at Hulk and walk back out?