My son's teacher says he lacks poor impulse control

[Lorix2]

We had a rough year in 3rd grade at the end of the school year, she had to discipline him and 2 other boys just like him, quite often.

What's conflicting me is that I know he can:

*sit thru a movie/tv show
*complete any project that interests him involving tools, like helping to assemble a table, taking the chain off of his bike, helping his dad mow the lawn, firing up a compressor (of course under adult supervision).
* he shows love and affection to our dog
* showers his younger nieces with smiles and hugs
* shows affection to us too, but we have to go to him or ask him for a goodnight hug or kiss and he complies
* complete assignments at school, not always on time, but he will

What he cannot do or does and it's serious:

*go for long rides or he's irritable and nasty, will provoke me and his sister to the point I want to drop him off at the nearest police station!
* respect you're personal space - he'll bump into you, walk over and on you
* respect you're personal possessions (has to play with everything and anything)
* has to have control of situations, has to have the tv remote
* argumentative and nasty comments and yelling and crying fits
* he cannot be respectful, he created the word "rude" and when I give him a look to provoke a thank you to someone or any other kind of respectful answer he'll such say it with attitude, not sincerely. He'll even be rude to an adult
*his attitude is usually "I don't care!"

We've been dealing with for about 4 years now and though the teacher won't say she thinks he ADD or the like, she kept stressing "impulse control" is what he lacks. He will show remorse when reprimanded but will repeat the action the next day and doesn't seem to care how it affects the classroom or the teacher trying to do her job.

My DH and I have had lenghty discussions and talks with him, taken things away, confined him to his room until he could comply and it's all in vain - he just doesn't care. His grades are considered average, though he is extremely articulate and smart.

I let him sleep as long as he wants since we're on summer vacation, only because I'm guilty of wanting peace in the house until he wakes up. How can a mother have love a child so much and but not like him? I'm so torn and I feel terrible that maybe I didn't so such a great job raising a second child, my oldest is nothing like this.

I know I need to seek help for him. We did see a counselor one time who couldn't fit me in for the 2nd session for 2 months, I am not joking.

My friends all notice his behavior and asking us to get together less and less all the time, I would do that too if I were them.

Sorry this is so long winded, this really needed to be let out because my friends just don't understand or want to know what may be the problem. Am I now in for a lifetime of torment and anguish with my son? NOT ONE DAY goes by that I don't raise my voice or make him leave his older sister alone, or scream that my kitchen table is not where you leave you're remote control boats after taking them off of the lake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just want to smash them and their remotes, it's a just a constant lack of respect for me and I'm just so disgusted and depressed. I always knew instintively that if I had a boy, he'd be trouble and my instinct was dead on.

Thank you for reading this if you have made it this far, the tears are streaming and don't know what today will bring, but knowing you DIS'ers have some same experiences to share will give me hope and encouragement to move forward.

[slmcn66]

Wow, what a difficult situation. My heart goes out to you. I have three children, 2G and 1B. My son is 10 and sanwiched between his 8 & 12 yr old sis's. He too can have difficult behavior. We are now on our fourth counselor trying to find a good fit. This is the first one with which he has been willing to interact

He is usually well behaved in school and performs well academically, but is extremely sensitive and tough on himself. He takes the pressures of the outside world out on his family. He exhibits many of the behaviors that your son does at home. At times he can have explosive scary anger and usually feels bad about it once he has regained control

Over the years we have discovered that he has low blood sugar so eating the correct foods regularly has become important to help him have the ability to control himself. In addition schedule and sleep play another key role.

It sounds like it may be important for you to find a good support system. Good friends will be more understanding, shallow friends will not be patient, instead you may find they are critical. I find adults like that use your difficult situation to make themselves feel more important. They have the unique ability at pointing silent fingers and causing you to feel like a bad parent.

While some behavior may be a response to parenting, the bigger problem is something inside him. It may help you to seek counseling for yourself. I found it very beneficial not just myself, but the relationship with my husband. We were often at odds on parenting and discipline; couseling helped bring our styles together and in turn we saw impvovements with the children.

Kids bodies mature and change at different rates, but their temperment usually stays the same. So a challenging baby becomes a challenging toddler continuing into a preschooler. etc.

It has helped me to read as much as I can about children and development and speak to as many people/professionals as I can. Sometimes the lightbulb goes on and something helps. You are not alone. Many of us have challenging children that are we are just not sure how to handle. Sometimes I want to brood and feel sorry for myself. While it helps for the short term it doesn't make anything better in the longrun so I have learned to deep breath, take time for myself, and continue to try and love and embrace my life as a parent.

My son still brings toys to the dinner table. It still bothers me a bit, but I have decided I'd rather have him at the table eating dinner with us than fight over the toys. It seems they give him comfort.

[mdsouth]

Please don't be hard on yourself, for not liking the behaviors of your child. Here is a hug for you.:hug: You love your child, but are frustrated with his actions! This is a common feeling for all parents at one time or another. It is just that those of us with children with disorders of sometype have to live with these issues on a daily basis.

I agree with the first poster, you should seek out a group or counselor where you can share your feelings. I suggest you check with your local hospital, try finding one through their website if they have one. I am sure other DISers might have suggestions.

I think you should probably start the process of trying to find out what is causing your son to display this type of behavior.

Good Luck and Wishing you a pleasant day!

:grouphug:

[arminnie]

I have no clue as to what you should do, but I do want to give you some hope.

Years ago I babysat for the worst child in the universe. I am 60 years old and this undeniably was the worst child I've ever come across. Totally out of control - even as a toddler.

When he started the 1st grade they ended up putting him behind a screen because he bothered the other kids so much! (decades ago).

They moved away when he was maybe 10 and I did not see him again until he was in his mid 20s. I could not believe this was the same boy. He was so well mannered, polite, well educated, etc, etc - just the perfect son.

I did not bring it up - although I was dying to know what had changed him. He brought it up - told me that when he was a teenager he decided that he was tired of getting into trouble and started applying himself. He ended up with two degrees and is very successful today as a father and husband.

I know the hell that he put his mother through - but it does have a very happy endng.

[tink_n_pooh]

OP- I really don't know how to help you but I can tell you that my nephew is the same way. I think he is the spawn of the devil :scared1: He is starting kindergarten in Sept, I'm interested to see how that goes.

My niece (his little half-sister) is becoming the same way and she isn't even 2 yet :eek:

My brother and SIL wonder why we don't spend that much time with them...:guilty:

Good luck and please if you find an answer let us know!

[disneygirl_wdw]

Sounds a lot like my younger brother. He started about when he started school. He would be pretty well behaved in school, but come home and be an entirely different person. He would struggle in school, though. He was diagnosed with a mild case of ADD in about 6th grade. His worst years were about 2nd grade through high school. Although he still acts out ocassionally, he is pretty good. You might want to see if there is another problem going on. After my brother has grown up we found out he was picked on a lot at school. Even the teachers would say rude things to him. He would then pick on me and my other sister at home. He does go to counciling with my parents. He has been going since about 3rd grade and we finally found someone that works, somewhat. Good luck!

[KirstenB]

I have 2 friends with children with multiple diagnoses. More to your situation though, they both have impulse issues, and I really don't think these kids can "see" the logical outcome that their behavior causes. FWIW, both parents had their kids evaluated for ADHD. Both kids tested positive, and as part of their therapy, they see a child psychologist. The psychologist works on behavioral therapy with them. The doctors have been great at helping their parents pick their batttles with the kids, and great at working with the kids on sensory and behavior issues. Both kids have sensory issues which contributes a lot to their discomfort in different surroundings.

Also, have you ever read "The Out-of-Sync Child?" It explains sensory issues in a lot of detail, and has helped me understand these 2 kids a lot better. Anyway, I can feel your frustration loud and clear. I'd be frustrated too. I hope you can find someone to help your son.

[Goofyluver]

My son has several medical diagnosis. And some of the same issues as you DS...but not as behaviorally involved.

I am not offering a diagnosis or anything like that. BUT...as someone who also works with children with many of these issues, I would say the following as both a professional and as a momma:

Get an OT eval as many of his behaviors seem to be sensory seeking. The above post recommending the book is wonderful...and it describes my son to a T...except he is sensory avoiding.

Get a counseling eval as well. This can address implulse control and the like.

These can be done through the school and/or through private companies.

I am sorry for your frustration and I completely understand. My DS is 11, although cognitively is about 7 or so. When he throws his "fits"...I shut down sometimes. It can be very challenging. Sometimes...and I know I can say this here without judgment...I wonder how we have both survived this long. And it's a miracle on the bad days that I don't strangle him or myself.

BUT...these children are also the most rewarding to parent. Because once they "get" something, whether it be social, academic, whatever...they are so proud and wonderful. Good luck! :hug:

[My2Cinderellas]

Another good book to explore is "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. One thing I like is that it doesn't focus on a diagnosis, but on strategies for successful interaction. This is the book my DD's psychologist recommended we start with.

[DawnM]

I am reading this thread with interest.

We will be putting our 9 year old in school for the first time this fall. He has been homeschooled so far. He went to full time daycare and preschool and it was suggested that he get help then. We have had behavior therapy for 3 years and finally it was determined that he is somewhere on the ADHD-Autism spectrum. (we already knew that!)

I am VERY nervous about how he will do in school. He is the kid who will throw a FIT if you tell him to close his math book when he is over-focused on his math and is NOT finished! I have talked to the school already, but I think they have no idea what he is really like.

We are working very hard to prepare him this summer. I start work (teaching) in 2 weeks so it is coming up very soon! I wish I could be at his school, but I am secondary and he is elem.

Anyway, keep the thoughts coming.

dawn

[Lorix2]

To everyone here, I am the OP.

I sincerely appreciate you sharing you're experiences with me and I have read every post.

Something I forgot to mention, not sure how much it matters really, but he was suspended after christmas last year for this behavior too many times even after numerous warnings by his teacher, she had had it. I did the walk of shame into and out of the school that day and I cried for days. Can you imagine you're 9 y/o suspended?? That got his attention, but it was short lived at home.

I am going to read both books two of you have suggested until I can get together with his principal when school starts and ask for help.

Boredom is our enemy, like today, he's very quick to argue and complain because we have nothing going on and it's too hot to be outside. He's just not a happy person in general I guess, my friend with a son dx with ADHD says she can see that with him too, unsure of himself and unable to make and keep friends, but bonds with the rowdy kids because those are the ones who accept him. It tears me up inside.


goofyluver - what is an "OT eval"?

[Goofyluver]

Occupational Therapy Evaluation.

[fakereadhed]

Something I forgot to mention, not sure how much it matters really, but he was suspended after christmas last year for this behavior too many times even after numerous warnings by his teacher, she had had it. I did the walk of shame into and out of the school that day and I cried for days. Can you imagine you're 9 y/o suspended?? That got his attention, but it was short lived at home.


My heart goes out to you. I am the mom of a difficult child with several diagnoses, all or none of which may be correct. ;) It is very frustrating, and sometimes a diagnosis may not even be an answer because you are still left dealing with the problem, and there are no answer books that automatically come with a diagnosis.

I agree with the person that said those are sensory-seeking behaviors. You may want to seek out an Occupational Therapist that can offer suggestions for alternative behaviors that won't impact others. My son(not my difficult child-my easier one!)used to bite and bang his head as a baby, but we give him "heavy work" to do which has eliminated the other behavior. We let him fill a backpack with cans from the kitchen or heavy toys and he wears it around the house. Or we give him balls filled with sand to carry and throw in a basket on the other side of the room. You would want to have an OT make a plan for your son, but just wanted to let you know what something like that looks like.

As far as the suspension goes, that is a good reason to get your son evaluated at school so he can maybe get an IEP(Individualized Education Plan). My daughter has problems understanding cause and effect. If she does something wrong, she needs to learn from it. Suspending her does not teach her why the behavior was wrong and what to do instead. Detention doesn't help either because the punishment comes so far after the behavior and isn't related to what she did. So in her IEP we have alternative plans for behavior situations as they arise. They would have a hard time suspending her the way the IEP is written.

It is really hard to deal with a difficult child. But you are not a bad mom, and he isn't a bad kid either. My heart goes out to both of you.


Just FYI for those who won't understand I have nothing against punishing kids if it is actually a deterrent for bad behavior. They can suspend my other neurotypical DD all they want! But if the point is to change the behavior so my kid can behave better they need to change the punishment to fit my kid.

[Selket]

Of course we aren't doctors here (usually) on the Disney boards but everything you described reminded me of a condition that sometimes goes along with ADHD called Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD). There is more about it here: http://add.about.com/cs/comorbidcondition/a/odd.htm
You could google it too. One of my kids was dx'd with ADD (not hyper or oppositional - just attention issues) a few months ago so that is why I'm familiar with it.

Our regular pedi could also diagnose this too (she had questionaires for the teachers, etc that I had to return to her).

I think if your child is in public school (or private either I guess) - I know you can ask the school to hold an evaluation meeting based on what you described. The school will do the testing for ODD (and other things) and come back with recommendations. You could get your own outside evals done too but this might be the easiest (cheapest if that is an issue) way of getting help right when school starts. I would think your child would qualify for an IEP or 504 plan based on what you've said - and the school should give support with counseling, etc. You would need your pedi involved if medication is an option.

Here are the symptoms of ODD which can also include ADD/ADHD type symptoms with it:

It is characterized by consistent disobedience, hostile or defiant behavior toward authority figures. The pattern of behavior must last for more than six months and must be compared to the behaviors of other children of the same age.

Some symptoms include:

* Argumentative
* Easily loses temper
* Blames others for own mistakes
* Difficulty making friends or sustaining friendships
* Often angry
* Uses vindictive behavior toward others
* Easily annoyed
* Defies adults and authority figures
* Often in trouble in school

[Christine43]

I agree with everyone here suggesting an evaluation but I would suggest an outside eval. I'm only saying this because in '06 my twins had school evals. that took us nowhere and they just had wonderful, involved evals. at a hospital here that included educational needs, OT, PT, psych and speech. There can be real biological reasons for your sons behavior and finding the root of the problem can be a real Godsend. I would get a neurologist to take a look at him first. Get a referral from the Pediatrician and ask the neuro. for an outside eval referral.
These evals. can get him the accommodations and the extra help (OT i.e.) in and out of school. I feel for you and I truly do understand. I have four kids and three have are on the autistic spectrum so I am very familiar with oppositional behavior from my sons and how taxing it is. But, I do love the way you firstly talk about his positive behavior and his kindness. He must be a great kid and I hope you can find all the help he needs. Good luck.

[fakereadhed]

I agree with everyone here suggesting an evaluation but I would suggest an outside eval. I'm only saying this because in '06 my twins had school evals. that took us nowhere and they just had wonderful, involved evals. at a hospital here that included educational needs, OT, PT, psych and speech.

I agree. But if you have the school do evals first, if you disagree the school may have to pay for outside evals which is helpful since they aren't usually covered and are quite costly(in the thousands). And even if you have your outside evals the school can say these needs don't qualify as educational needs. There are also ways to get the school to acknowledge your child's problems if they are less than helpful. Our school system was less than helpful(I have two that receive services)and they seemed to not want to provide them due to budget issues. If anyone needs tips on getting the school to help pm me. We have been there!

[lunapnp]

LoriX2...I felt like I was somewhat reading a story about my DD 11 when I read your post. I know all too well the problems you are describing with one exception...my daughter would not behave this way at school. DD was/still is at times VERY aggressive and argumentative with family members. She has taken her frustration out on me, dad, sis...physically...more times than I can count. We have had her in counseling/therapy for about a year now. We have tried different medications and have found one that really helps with her mood swings. I even asked her psychiatrist one day if he thought she was bipolar or just had poor impulse control (I have a family history of bipolar). He said at this point, he was leaning more towards impulse control. I know some people will disagree with medicating...but my husband and I were at the point that we couldn't handle her any longer. We had been battling with her for well over 2-3 years. No amount of discipline, threats, etc., would deter her behavior. When she "lost it", she would have rages for 20-30 minutes and then not remember what she actually got mad about to begin with.
Like others have mentioned, I would start with some evaluations. I would try to get help from the school system to start with. But, I don't believe that just because you disagree with what their evaluation shows that the school will pay for you to have an outside evaluation. If you don't agree, then you have to pay for your own outside evaluation. As a nurse practitioner, I can tell you that I have seen several patients that have had evaluations through the school system, but most don't receive much help after that. Most school systems will tell you that they don't have the funding, etc., for the testing but they do. From what you describe, I can see some tendencies for ADD, but it's so much like what my DD displays it's almost funny. My DD does have ADD, too, but we can't treat her for that (she has other medical issues, too, and we've tried ADD meds in the past but can't find any that work well with her other issues). As far as oppositional defiant disorder, he may have some of those symptoms...but not some of the Major ones that psych people look at such as stealing and harming animals, etc. I'm not saying this to say what others have posted is not true...because it is. I'm saying this as a parent of a child with disabilities...don't get too overwhelmed with what other people say and other's opinions. Go for professional evaluations and then go from there. With today's internet society...if you're like me...I research EVERYTHING!!! Sometimes I jump to conclusions with my own DD based on what I read online. My husband gets so mad at me!!! Just take it one day at time...especially until you can get more formal testing and help. :grouphug:

[Goofyluver]

Like others have mentioned, I would start with some evaluations. I would try to get help from the school system to start with. But, I don't believe that just because you disagree with what their evaluation shows that the school will pay for you to have an outside evaluation. If you don't agree, then you have to pay for your own outside evaluation.

I also work for the schools as an SLP. Federal law states that if you disagree with an evaluation performed by the school system, you have the right to have an independent evaluation performed by an outside evaluator (often one who needs to be approved by the school district). If the outside evaluation differs from the school's evaluation, then the school district is liable to pay you for any out of pocket costs that you may have for that evaluation.

Our jobs as parents are to advocate for our children. We must start somewhere. It took me almost 5 years to get a diagnosis for my son. At the beginning of my journey, I began as many parents do...with information finding and research. This is the place that the OP appears to be at this point in her journey.

Having my child is the most rewarding part of my life. I can look back, and place myself in the same frame of mind as the OP....when I was scared and needed answers and help. I now feel like I can help others, by sharing what I have learned as the parent of a child with disabilities.

To the OP...good luck on your journey. And there is help out there for everyone! :hug:

[Lorix2]

Hi again,

OP here. You're support here is more than I will probably ever get emotionally and I'm so, so grateful. It's a relief to feel that I have not failed him or have been a lazy parent. I really do feel worse for him at times, becaues I do know he's a great kid and when he's feeling included and engaged in something, you want to be around him because he really is very funny and we laugh alot, even his older sister cannot stop herself even if she's mad at him. (which is usually a few times a day) From the time he was 6 or so, he started bossing kids around and being possessive, easily angered and I couldn't understand how MY child who had an older sibling who would have given you the last Barbie tiara on the planet at that age, could not be as generous and kind as her.

Selket - that description of ODD describes my son 100%

Yes, I never saw that therapist again and was shocked when the appt secretary told me the date, I just said never mind and got nothing out of the last 50 minutes we had just spent in the office.

I have taken notes from all of you're posts and will reread most of them too.

From the bottom of my heart - I thank you all and hope you and you're children will continue to thrive in therapy/meds and life will bring good things to you.

I will go to his school the first week and ask to speak to the principal who knows him and is great with him, and start this ball rolling. This will be the most challenging thimg I will ever have to do, but I'm ready, I have to be, I need to be.

[slmcn66]

I will go to his school the first week and ask to speak to the principal who knows him and is great with him, and start this ball rolling. This will be the most challenging thimg I will ever have to do, but I'm ready, I have to be, I need to be.


Going to speak with the principal is a great idea. Consider going within the next week or two before school starts, you may find it helpful to discuss the teacher he will have as well as a friend or two with which he is comfortable. It may help if he gets the opportunity to meet his teacher prior to the first day.

My thoughts are with you. I try and embrace all the funny times, it helps me remain calm when my son is melting down.

[Lorix2]

Going to speak with the principal is a great idea. Consider going within the next week or two before school starts, you may find it helpful to discuss the teacher he will have as well as a friend or two with which he is comfortable. It may help if he gets the opportunity to meet his teacher prior to the first day.

My thoughts are with you. I try and embrace all the funny times, it helps me remain calm when my son is melting down.

You know, that's a great thought. I'll do that Monday actually, I know they are there. Lately, I'm so angry I can't remember the funny times, but I do agree. Thank you much.

[Jenna45]

My son has ADHD with a focus on Hyperactivity and impulse control. He is 11. He has little control over his actions without medication, not to say he can't do it, the computer , video games, he can easily stay occupied with out medication, but he lacks the ability to know when enough is enough, he is also the class clown which does not help. He can be persistant and annoying to not only us , but his classmates and friends when he things something is funny and if it makes someone laugh he will keep doing it, and with out medication he often reacts with out thinking. Luckily it has not affected his overall achivements or friendships but I am not sure that would be the case had he not taken meds... He is and I will say this lightly, "normal" on medication and most times even more well behaved then his peers, but when he was younger and before he was medicated, he was violent, and rude and impulsive. He went through several daycares, and had problems in kindergarton. But, now he is in sixth grade and does great, but I wish I had known then what I know now...

[freckles and boo]

There are different paths for an evaluation. If you prefer, you could call your pediatrician and INSIST upon a referral to a pediatric neurologist who has experience with kids like yours. With a medical report in hand, you might have better luck dealing with any resistance you might get from your school district. Or get evaluations from both and compare notes. My daughter is autistic and also has attention and impulse control problems. We have had terrific support from our district, but I know that many people do not.

[Lorix2]

There are different paths for an evaluation. If you prefer, you could call your pediatrician and INSIST upon a referral to a pediatric neurologist who has experience with kids like yours. With a medical report in hand, you might have better luck dealing with any resistance you might get from your school district. Or get evaluations from both and compare notes. My daughter is autistic and also has attention and impulse control problems. We have had terrific support from our district, but I know that many people do not.

I don't know what to expect from his school at all. Are pedi neurologists usually covered by insurance if referred by the primary pedi?

The guidance counselor at our school is a witch to put it mildly and we don't like each other. Not sure what role she'd play in all of this, but I found out from a friend of mine, not even from my son, that she'd been taking him away from his recesses in June and walking and talking with him without my knowledge. I am all for guidance, but why not make me aware? Why under the radar? Do you know she never contacted me after all the interaction with my son? My friend noticed them alone a few times while picking up her DD from the school for appointments and asked why? It was news to me and my son told me when I asked about it.

On the 2nd day of 1st grade, he cried and cried, his teacher just about had gained his trust and I was ready to walk away. I reassured him I would be back for him, he was safe, etc...out of nowhere, the guidance counselor wretched him from me, turned him around and said very loudly - "I HAVE A GIRL IN MY OFFICE WHO'S MOTHER IS DYING AND I HAVE NO TIME FOR THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR, NOW YOU NEED TO STOP!!". I grabbed her arm, took it off of my son's wrist and said " DON'T YOU EVER wretch my son from me again, don't ever touch him again - it's obvious that this girl needs you now, we don't!". The principal watched me and I was waiting for him to have a word with me, but didn't ask to even though I would have been happy to talk to him about it.

I'm so afraid of my son being "labeled" and I don't trust this woman to keep things confidential either, I mean who are the only ones that are supposed to be "in the know" at school about children with disorders/behavorial issues?

[Christine43]

I don't know about the school systems everywhere else but I have had very unpleasant experiences with ours. I got another outside eval. because the ones the schools did are a joke, completely to benefit themselves. They also point out the problems my boys are having but have no real suggestions on how to help them with them. My autistic son was labeled mildly retarded by the school psych. and his outside eval shows he is absolutely not retarded. I know for a fact I am going to have an extremely hard time with them this fall with the rec.s I've gotten but I refuse to sign the IEP until I get them and I'm getting a special needs group involved and an advocate.
My experience is not to take the school's recs. at face value and get an outside opinion always.
Absolutely get a referral to a pedi. neuro. and go from there.

[slmcn66]

You have voiced some really valid concerns. In NJ, the school counselor is separate from the child study team. Our school does not always communicate w/ parents re: school counseling sessions. I find that very frustrating. My son never spent time with the school counselor, but had he, it may have done more harm than good. We had a meeting w/ the child study team, (whose psychologist I did like) but since academics were not an issue they could not do a formal evluation.

NJ has a statute? called a 504, I'm not sure if it is federal. It allows for an individualized plan similar to an IEP if the student has a medical diagnosis, ie: diabetes, anxiety, aspbergers, etc. Our principal and faculty worked with us. The principal did not really want to write the 504 because it was more paperwork for her, but did make the necessary accomodations for my son to have a more successful year.

I am a certified teacher. Even so, I had to educate myself as to many of the laws regarding special situation education. The teachers themselves usually do their best to be accomodating with classroom needs. Often the administration offers as little as possible in the way of special needs due to both paperwork and funding concerns, so it becomes the parent's job to advocate for the student.

Last year we enrolled our son in a Catholic school. It was a difficult, but great experience for him. The structure in the day was a blessing as was the view of educating the "whole" child along with academics. It was not a perfect fit, but was better. The school was consolodated by the Diocese in June. My husband and I have decided to homeschool our two older children, 10 & 12. We feel blessed that we have the opportunity and are trying to embrace it. It helps that the kids are looking forward to it.

Hang in there. Keep educating yourself about options and turn to anyone you can for support. It really does take a village, both for parents and children. It is nice to have these boards as part of our village.

[Goofyluver]

I don't know what to expect from his school at all. Are pedi neurologists usually covered by insurance if referred by the primary pedi?

The guidance counselor at our school is a witch to put it mildly and we don't like each other. Not sure what role she'd play in all of this, but I found out from a friend of mine, not even from my son, that she'd been taking him away from his recesses in June and walking and talking with him without my knowledge. I am all for guidance, but why not make me aware? Why under the radar? Do you know she never contacted me after all the interaction with my son? My friend noticed them alone a few times while picking up her DD from the school for appointments and asked why? It was news to me and my son told me when I asked about it.

On the 2nd day of 1st grade, he cried and cried, his teacher just about had gained his trust and I was ready to walk away. I reassured him I would be back for him, he was safe, etc...out of nowhere, the guidance counselor wretched him from me, turned him around and said very loudly - "I HAVE A GIRL IN MY OFFICE WHO'S MOTHER IS DYING AND I HAVE NO TIME FOR THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR, NOW YOU NEED TO STOP!!". I grabbed her arm, took it off of my son's wrist and said " DON'T YOU EVER wretch my son from me again, don't ever touch him again - it's obvious that this girl needs you now, we don't!". The principal watched me and I was waiting for him to have a word with me, but didn't ask to even though I would have been happy to talk to him about it.

I'm so afraid of my son being "labeled" and I don't trust this woman to keep things confidential either, I mean who are the only ones that are supposed to be "in the know" at school about children with disorders/behavorial issues?

We have always gotten our referrals for ourside doctor's direct from the pedi. Take your son, and politely demand a referral.

My son has many "labels"...and I remember when I was at your point...and I was worried about people "labeling" him and expecting less of him or treating him differently. I sympathize with you. The only thing I could say is that you are doing the right thing in seeking help and information...and what that brings, you will deal with. Because you're his mother and you seem like a good one! :hug:

I also work as an SLP in the schools, and I will be honest and say that those that work in the school are aware of most children and their differences. BUT...only those who work directly with a child have knowledge of that specific child and specific issues related to that child. This is the way it SHOULD be. Good luck!

[Goofyluver]

As related to an above post...504 is a federal statute. However, it is only reserved for those children who are not eligible for services given on a regular IEP...so if there is no academic relevance for services, then modifications can be given on the 504 plan.

[Lorix2]

Christine43 & slmc - thank you for you're advice and encouragement, this is all helping me understand procedures and protocol more and more every day.

On you're advice also, as others here too, I will start with his pedi tomorrow, she's wonderful and behind me 100%, she knows how defiant he can be with her too, she also has a son and she's having him eval'd, so I would like to talk to her more about it.

[Lorix2]

Because you're his mother and you seem like a good one! :hug:



Aww, that was as comforting as a hug to me, thank you :) I appreciate you're input as well.

[KirstenB]

Lori, I hear what you're saying about labels. Our youngest has autism. Believe me, if I could get rid of that label I would. But, that label currently gets her speech therapy. And a muscle condition got her physical therapy until she no longer needed it. In school, a label can get your son an IEP, which will mandate accomodations if he needs them.

I always try to remember that our daughter has a condition that needs to be labeled for her to get what she needs. Again, good luck and hugs.

[Christine43]

Christine43 & slmc - thank you for you're advice and encouragement, this is all helping me understand procedures and protocol more and more every day.

On you're advice also, as others here too, I will start with his pedi tomorrow, she's wonderful and behind me 100%, she knows how defiant he can be with her too, she also has a son and she's having him eval'd, so I would like to talk to her more about it.

Sincerely, best of luck! Have you looked into any local support groups or groups online? They can be very helpful, great advice from other parents. Also there are many books you can read but in my experience, you'll get bits and pieces from different books that relate to your child. You sound like a great parent and very determined, just what he needs. You know him better than anyone, you're his biggest advocate. Take care, Christine

[lunapnp]

Christine43 & slmc - thank you for you're advice and encouragement, this is all helping me understand procedures and protocol more and more every day.

On you're advice also, as others here too, I will start with his pedi tomorrow, she's wonderful and behind me 100%, she knows how defiant he can be with her too, she also has a son and she's having him eval'd, so I would like to talk to her more about it.

Just my personal opinion (and speaking from experience), I would start with your pediatrician. It's hard to say whether or not your insurance would cover a ped neuro...all policies are different. I would think at the very least they may require you to have a referral from your pediatrician...but I don't see why insurance wouldn't cover a visit to a peds neruo. I know you stated you were going to call your MD in the morning, and I think that is wonderful. Speaking from experience, *most* school systems are not going to recommend any therapy, doctor visit, etc. to you. That would leave the school liable to PAY for those services. Also, you may want to check and see if your insurance covers psychiatric services. If it does, I would also consider seeing a child psychologist...but would recommend a child psychiatrist. I think a child psychologist/psychiatrist may do more of the testing that you would want for your son than say a ped neuro. I know all states are different, but in Alabama a psychologist cannot write prescriptions. So, if your son were to need medication he may need a psychologist to write the prescription. Best of luck. It is a long, difficult road, but hang in there. It will get better. And, like everything else, you have to take the good days with the bad. Hopefully, the good will outweigh the bad pretty soon!

[bzzymom]

Wow, I read your story and I think of my son. He is 10. I have known since 2nd grade that he was different from the other kids but I couldn't put my finger on it. Finally this summer, I read some articles about high-functioning autism and I thought this might be a possibility for DS. I took him to a pspychologist who diagnosed him with an anxiety disorder with obsessive compulsive tendencies. He has only had a few appointments and I have seen no difference in him yet, but I realize this takes time. I do my best to keep my cool with him, but it is difficult. I get so frustrated. I almost feel like I need more counseling than he does ;) You are not alone.

[nateryan]

My oldest DS sounds like your DS. My DS is 5 and seeing a Behavior Therapist. He can be very sweet, smart, funny, kind, etc. But then there are times that he is impulsive and mean. He has gone to a full time daycare since he was 3 months. Luckily, we are still there (I pray everyday that we don't get kicked out.) He doesn't think sometimes, his first reaction is to hit, push, kick, etc. He has great days too. So, the therapist thinks he just needs to be "socialized - which is the daycare's job" (her words). There has been no mention of medication yet. We are working on another problem (still potty training), we think it is a power struggle at this point.
This probably wasn't of any help but just know that there are other parents going through similar situations. :hug:

[Selket]

Each state is different - or maybe each school system. But our school system is pretty good with the evaluations they do. Had I had my son eval'd by someone outside it would have cost me out of pocket for his particular issue with our particular insurance. That really is a personal issue depending on your school, your insurance, your personal finances and all that! If your insurance pays for an outside eval then I see no reason why not.

Both IEP's and 504 are federal laws. I just wanted to add that an IEP has one important protection that a 504 doesn't for your case which sounds like it could be important - and that is if there ever occurs another time when he does something which could cause him to get suspended from school. With an IEP there are other things they must consider before suspending him - there are more protections in place.

I HIGHLY recommend this book: Nolo's IEP Guide: Learning Disabilities (Paperback)
http://www.amazon.com/Nolos-IEP-Guide-Learning-Disabilities/dp/1413305121/ref=sr_1_1/102-2075844-2454530?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186359331&sr=8-1

That book will explain how to go about getting evaluations and dealing with the school for an IEP for your son if he has something like ODD.

Good luck with it all!

[fakereadhed]

NJ has a statute? called a 504, I'm not sure if it is federal. It allows for an individualized plan similar to an IEP if the student has a medical diagnosis, ie: diabetes, anxiety, aspbergers, etc.

Just wanted to add that a 504 is a plan a child can have even without qualifying for spec ed, not necessary to have a medical diagnosis. Also, a medical diagnosis most definitely qualifies for an IEP, under the category Other Health Impairment.

[Selket]

Just wanted to add that a 504 is a plan a child can have even without qualifying for spec ed, not necessary to have a medical diagnosis. Also, a medical diagnosis most definitely qualifies for an IEP, under the category Other Health Impairment.

Diabetes is certainly a medical diagnosis but most diabetic kids (I have one) get a 504 rather than an IEP for school issues. My older son is dx'd with ADD and has a 504 now but had an IEP when he was younger for other issues.

The issue of 504 vs. IEP is not the diagnosis but the type of accommodations required. For a 504 the issue is to remove the barriers to allow them to access the curriculum (allowing someone to scribe, use an alphasmart, etc). For an IEP the student is found to need supplemental educational services - like speech therapy, remedial reading/math classes, etc.

Here is a chart: http://www.ncld.org/content/view/1127/456169/

The difference between the 2 is confusing I realize - the Nolo book is helpful and it might be that the OP's child needs an IEP. But I think either would be helpful - the child definitely needs something in place and probably some intervention from a medical doctor (his pedi, etc).

[Goofyluver]

Just wanted to add that a 504 is a plan a child can have even without qualifying for spec ed, not necessary to have a medical diagnosis. Also, a medical diagnosis most definitely qualifies for an IEP, under the category Other Health Impairment.

In order to be eligible for an IEP, there must be academic relevance. SO...although several children have medical issues, if there is no academic relevance then an IEP is not appropriate. In these cases, the 504 plan is another option.

[solferino]

:hug: I'm reading this book right now, Too loud, too bright, too fast, too tight (http://www.amazon.com/Loud-Bright-Fast-Tight-Overstimulating/dp/0060932929/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-0573111-8029656?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186338711&sr=8-1). I have some sensory issues myself, but didn't realise them as such until I started working with a child who has them. It's been eye-opening to say the least.

Another excellent book is called Is this your child? (http://www.amazon.com/This-Your-Child-Doris-Rapp/dp/0688119077/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-0573111-8029656?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186432064&sr=1-1) It explores how foods, additives, dyes and sensitivities to them and the chemicals in things around us can affect behaviours. It is a lengthy book, but broken down nicely. Thankfully food sensitivities aren't an issue here, but friends who do have them with their children have found it helpful.

It's a lot of work and can feel overwhelming at the beginning when sorting through these kinds of things. Good for you on taking the initiative on getting started.

[jodifla]

Lori, I hear what you're saying about labels. Our youngest has autism. Believe me, if I could get rid of that label I would. But, that label currently gets her speech therapy. And a muscle condition got her physical therapy until she no longer needed it. In school, a label can get your son an IEP, which will mandate accomodations if he needs them.

I always try to remember that our daughter has a condition that needs to be labeled for her to get what she needs. Again, good luck and hugs.

But parents should get the correct label, not one that's convenient for the school. Personally, I'd never accept a label I didn't think was accurate just to get therapy from the school. I'd get a lawyer first. (Don't know your situation, and don't mean to imply that's what you did!)

An autism diagnosis shouldn't be necessary for speech therapy. Most districts have language or communication impaired categories.

[fakereadhed]

In order to be eligible for an IEP, there must be academic relevance. SO...although several children have medical issues, if there is no academic relevance then an IEP is not appropriate. In these cases, the 504 plan is another option.

Yes, but lots of medical issues may have academic relevance such as needing assistance to make up work, or keeping the child safe and maintaining an optimal learning environment by keeping their medical conditions under control during school. OHI requires a doctor's note documenting the condition and how it impacts the child's education. Just wanted to make sure parents had the information in case they need services for their child that aren't covered by the 504.

[Goofyluver]

Yes, but lots of medical issues may have academic relevance such as needing assistance to make up work, or keeping the child safe and maintaining an optimal learning environment by keeping their medical conditions under control during school. OHI requires a doctor's note documenting the condition and how it impacts the child's education. Just wanted to make sure parents had the information in case they need services for their child that aren't covered by the 504.

Absolutely. You are absolutely right. My son's eligibilty is OHI as a matter of fact. I just wanted to make sure that people were aware that if there was no academic relevance...or academics were not impacted by the medical condition, that a 504 may be more appropriate. Here in NM...we place children on a 504 only after they have been tested for sped and do not qualify, but academics may still be an issue.

[KirstenB]

But parents should get the correct label, not one that's convenient for the school. Personally, I'd never accept a label I didn't think was accurate just to get therapy from the school. I'd get a lawyer first. (Don't know your situation, and don't mean to imply that's what you did!)

An autism diagnosis shouldn't be necessary for speech therapy. Most districts have language or communication impaired categories.


Jodi, in re-reading my post I think I wasn't clear. Our daughter definitely has some distinct autistic characteristics. I don't disagree with the label. Rather, what I mean is....I can either deny the label, and her autism, or I can accept it, move on, and get her needed services. She doesn't fit the label for classic autism, meaning she doesn't stim (yet), or have perseverative interests. But she is distant, delayed in speech, lacking in empathy, and lagging behind on receptive communication as well. She laughs when I tell her "no". That would have sent her older sister into tears at that age. Zoe doesn't get receptive speech very well.

I absolutely agree with you that parents should get the correct label, and that's where I was also unclear. Thanks for pointing that out. :goodvibes I guess in my own way, I was trying to acknowledge that labels are tough (especially when they fit), but it's important to remember how they can help our kids get services they need.

[KirstenB]

Jodi, you're right, speech therapy can be due to any number of things not related to autism. I need to decide sometime this month if I want to enroll Zoe in special ed preschool. She still qualifies for speech through Early Intevention. But that's only 1 hr every 2 weeks. Her speech therapist offered to write her up to qualify for special ed preschool if want want. If we go with the autism diagnosis, she can go to pre-school 5 days a week. I wish we all had the same services available no matter what state we lived in.

This is so hard to try to figure out what is the right decision. It's so hard to try to read into a crystal ball and figure out what's the best choice. I'm in tears right now trying to describe this. If anyone out there has a child who's so VERY different than their other children, you know a little what I'm saying. Our 2 daughters are dead ringers physically. But they are so different (and not in that genius Albert Einstein way either).

[autumnl78]

Wow. Ok here is a just a throw in of a few of my 2 cents.
1- the school couns. perhaps a sit down is in order with her and the principal and you. if things dont improve perhaps a out of zone school change request?
2- with a sister as a teacher, a honorary mom as a speech pathologist, and some other teaching friends, ieps stick with you, so save on those as they do become "labels"
3- sometimes "labels" arent as bad as people make them out to be. my nephew has aspbergers. until that diagnosis we were pulling our hair out why isnt he talking, why isnt he jumping, why isnt he this or that? the diagnosis opened loads of doors to help him get the help he needs. it also makes me understand other autistic kids like him better. i can spot an aspbergers kid a mile away and know how hard it is on their parents and try to make sure they know how great their kid is and how great their doing if i can. sometimes "labels" are just an diagnosis that has become to pc.
4- as an add adult, i have to say i never was on meds as a kid. i was all over focus and temper wise unless i had something that held my attention. books, tv, swimming things i like held me for ever. things that bored me (go go gifted and add *sigh*) i didnt like or just didnt care about either made me go in my own zone, caused me to act out, or better yet show off my temper. i didnt go on meds till i was 28. attention and focus wise im a different person. temper control wise too.
5- a new out side counselor who doesnt seem to have such scheduling issues may help alot. if not to find a way to help mellow things out, at least a way to help you all talk about things in a private "switzerland" so no one is the bad guy and everyone gets to see where the other is coming from.
6- i wish you luck, and just know im thinking about you and your son. things will get better, just give them time. trust me. 4 years ago i was begging my nephew to say my name and told him i would never tell him to shush up once he started talking, now trust me there are days id like to tell him that cause the boy goes a mile a minute but a promise is a promise. :) :) :):love:

[Goofyluver]

Kirstin...

As an SLP, my only advice would be that early intervention is key. The younger we get to kiddos, the more intervention they can receive, the better. When I get a kid later in life, habits are often set very deep in stone.

My own son went to a sped pre-school. It was wonderful for him and gave him a jump on services. He is not diagnosed as autistic, but has many of the characteristics.

At a sped preschool, it is a language, fine motor, gross motor filled environment. Even if the child is not receiving OT, PT, or other services, many of these skills are addressed in the classrooms of the preschool.

Autistic children need early intervention. Although I know you referred to the fact that your child does not have this diagnosis at this time. It is just a whole world of difference between getting the child early and getting them later in life.

Just my personal opinion...but I have been doing this for years now. I would recommend taking advantage of any services you have access to.

[KirstenB]

Goofy Luver, actually Zoe is diagnosed as high functioning autism. She's had two meetings at UVA Children's Hospital. One with the head of developmental peds, and one with an education specialist. To further confuse the issue, her Early Intervention SLP says she doesn't have autism. She says Zoe shows communicative intent, has a short attention span, has good eye gaze, etc. She says Zoe has visual and auditory processing delays. We need to give her lots of time to respond to our cues. She says that we all (and she says she did it too, when she met Zoe), need to give her MUCH more time to processs what Zoe sees/hears.

There's just something "off" about Zoe compared to our older dd. If someone told me she was mildly retarded, that would make sense. Likewise, high functioning autism sort of makes sense. I haven't been able to find much info on these processing delays. They sort of make sense too. She goes into the "Zoe zone" as I call it to her sister. Andi will try to hug her, and Zoe just pushes her away, sometimes, but not always. I guess it's good that it's hard to pigeon hole her. That means she doesn't have a huge developmental chasm to cross.

Anyway, thanks to all for listening. Sorry to hijack the original thread. OP, obviously, I'm a proponent of accepting the label that gets the child the most services.

[KirstenB]

Goofy Luver, I re-read your post. Thanks for encouraging the services. Since Zoe is young (23 mths) and so small for her age, I'm picturing her getting clocked in the head with a toy in the pre-school room!:goodvibes All summer, I've gone back and forth about getting her into Special Ed preschool. As a substitute teacher, in a small county, I know sometimes kids who can be a little violent are in the same class. I always had the "Newsweek or Time Magazine" view of autism, which was the classic, stimming, non eye contact, not in the same place view. I think her SLP is having 2nd thoughts. She called me a couple of days ago to ask if the educator could come out on her next visit, and re-assess Zoe.

Like I said, there's just something off about Zoe. I wish there weren't with all my heart. Bottom line, I dont' care if they call it "purple non-talking disorder" as long as we get Zoe everything she needs. Thanks for your kind input.

[Goofyluver]

Goofy Luver, actually Zoe is diagnosed as high functioning autism. She's had two meetings at UVA Children's Hospital. One with the head of developmental peds, and one with an education specialist. To further confuse the issue, her Early Intervention SLP says she doesn't have autism. She says Zoe shows communicative intent, has a short attention span, has good eye gaze, etc. She says Zoe has visual and auditory processing delays. We need to give her lots of time to respond to our cues. She says that we all (and she says she did it too, when she met Zoe), need to give her MUCH more time to processs what Zoe sees/hears.

There's just something "off" about Zoe compared to our older dd. If someone told me she was mildly retarded, that would make sense. Likewise, high functioning autism sort of makes sense. I haven't been able to find much info on these processing delays. They sort of make sense too. She goes into the "Zoe zone" as I call it to her sister. Andi will try to hug her, and Zoe just pushes her away, sometimes, but not always. I guess it's good that it's hard to pigeon hole her. That means she doesn't have a huge developmental chasm to cross.

Anyway, thanks to all for listening. Sorry to hijack the original thread. OP, obviously, I'm a proponent of accepting the label that gets the child the most services.

My goodness. How difficult for you and your family. My son has many of the same issues. Auditory processing difficulties, visual processing difficulties. Although he still has many difficulties in this area, we recently started seeing an SLP in another city who specializes in auditory integration therapy. In addition, he is on OT, and she also focuses on the visual processing.

I wish you good luck! Is she seeing an OT as well?

[KirstenB]

Our SLP brought an OT out for the first 2 visits. This is complicated for me. From what I've read about autism, and various therapists, maybe Zoe doesn't need an OT. She has almost no behavioral issues, other than "mouthing" objects. Depending on what day it is (or more to the point, what kind of day Zoe is having), I could make a reasonable argument for or against autism. I've accepted the diagnosis of high functioning autism, so that we insure she gets all the services available. If we're wrong, what has she lost? If we're right, then she's getting what she needs.
Thanks for caring.

[Goofyluver]

Our SLP brought an OT out for the first 2 visits. This is complicated for me. From what I've read about autism, and various therapists, maybe Zoe doesn't need an OT. She has almost no behavioral issues, other than "mouthing" objects. Depending on what day it is (or more to the point, what kind of day Zoe is having), I could make a reasonable argument for or against autism. I've accepted the diagnosis of high functioning autism, so that we insure she gets all the services available. If we're wrong, what has she lost? If we're right, then she's getting what she needs.
Thanks for caring.

In a past life, I went to OT school! (I know I know...I couldn't decide on a major!) OTs also work with fine motor, visual perceptual skills, sensory issues (touch, sound sensitivities, etc.) proprioceptive system (or understanding where the body is in space), etc. Our OTs work a lot with the visual perceptual system...and I just thought maybe this could be another avenue.

[KirstenB]

Oh Egad! I wouldn't know visual prociperative system if it hit me upside the head! I'll ask her SLP about it next week. The OT pointed out that Zoe didn't have the perseverative behaviours. We have a "sit and spin" from when Andi was young. The OT said it was good that Zoe didn't play with it for more than a minute or 2. Zoe's attention span is SO short. Just this week, she'll finally sit in my lap to look at a picture book.

[Goofyluver]

Oh Egad! I wouldn't know visual prociperative system if it hit me upside the head! I'll ask her SLP about it next week. The OT pointed out that Zoe didn't have the perseverative behaviours. We have a "sit and spin" from when Andi was young. The OT said it was good that Zoe didn't play with it for more than a minute or 2. Zoe's attention span is SO short. Just this week, she'll finally sit in my lap to look at a picture book.

I swear I'm not meaning to hijack the thread!

But just have to say:

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: for Zoe!!!

[KirstenB]

Lori x2, please keep us posted. I can tell you're a very caring loving mom, and I hope you can find some answers. :grouphug:

[RF536]

Hang in there Lorix2! :hug: :hug:

I could have very easily written your post, DS6 displays alot of the same symptoms. We just received a diagnosis of ADHD and have started a medicine trial of Concerta. His therapist recommended we read the book "It's Nobodys Fault", the book is out of print and can be hard to find, but I was able to check it out of the library. The chapters on ADHD and some of the examples in the chaper on the medicine debate could have been writen about DS. Until we read this book, we didn't really think the ADHD diagonsis fit, because like your son, he could focus for extended periods of time if something interested him.

The good news is that we have already seen a great improvement in DS and very mild side effects on the Concerta.

[Lorix2]

Wow. Ok here is a just a throw in of a few of my 2 cents.
1- the school couns. perhaps a sit down is in order with her and the principal and you. if things dont improve perhaps a out of zone school change request?
2- with a sister as a teacher, a honorary mom as a speech pathologist, and some other teaching friends, ieps stick with you, so save on those as they do become "labels"
3- sometimes "labels" arent as bad as people make them out to be. my nephew has aspbergers. until that diagnosis we were pulling our hair out why isnt he talking, why isnt he jumping, why isnt he this or that? the diagnosis opened loads of doors to help him get the help he needs. it also makes me understand other autistic kids like him better. i can spot an aspbergers kid a mile away and know how hard it is on their parents and try to make sure they know how great their kid is and how great their doing if i can. sometimes "labels" are just an diagnosis that has become to pc.
4- as an add adult, i have to say i never was on meds as a kid. i was all over focus and temper wise unless i had something that held my attention. books, tv, swimming things i like held me for ever. things that bored me (go go gifted and add *sigh*) i didnt like or just didnt care about either made me go in my own zone, caused me to act out, or better yet show off my temper. i didnt go on meds till i was 28. attention and focus wise im a different person. temper control wise too.
5- a new out side counselor who doesnt seem to have such scheduling issues may help alot. if not to find a way to help mellow things out, at least a way to help you all talk about things in a private "switzerland" so no one is the bad guy and everyone gets to see where the other is coming from.
6- i wish you luck, and just know im thinking about you and your son. things will get better, just give them time. trust me. 4 years ago i was begging my nephew to say my name and told him i would never tell him to shush up once he started talking, now trust me there are days id like to tell him that cause the boy goes a mile a minute but a promise is a promise. :) :) :):love:

Kirsten - thank you, you're words are very encouraging and I'm taking in you're advice as well. I will post when I "get my ducks in a row" so to speak, thank you for you're nice comment.

[Lorix2]

Oh Egad! I wouldn't know visual prociperative system if it hit me upside the head! I'll ask her SLP about it next week. The OT pointed out that Zoe didn't have the perseverative behaviours. We have a "sit and spin" from when Andi was young. The OT said it was good that Zoe didn't play with it for more than a minute or 2. Zoe's attention span is SO short. Just this week, she'll finally sit in my lap to look at a picture book.

I wish you the best with Zoe, what a feeling it must have been for her to sit and look through that book with you :goodvibes

[Lorix2]

Hang in there Lorix2! :hug: :hug:

I could have very easily written your post, DS6 displays alot of the same symptoms. We just received a diagnosis of ADHD and have started a medicine trial of Concerta. His therapist recommended we read the book "It's Nobodys Fault", the book is out of print and can be hard to find, but I was able to check it out of the library. The chapters on ADHD and some of the examples in the chaper on the medicine debate could have been writen about DS. Until we read this book, we didn't really think the ADHD diagonsis fit, because like your son, he could focus for extended periods of time if something interested him.

The good news is that we have already seen a great improvement in DS and very mild side effects on the Concerta.


I will certainly look for this at my library. I'm glad to hear that your son has shown improvement and hope wonderful things for him and you're family.

[Lorix2]

To every one of you that I haven't replied to personally, I apologize and want you to know that I appreciate every word you write and every experience you share.

I have not contacted his pedi *yet*. The reason being, is that my oldest has gone to spend a week with my IL's. Dylan and I are home alone for the week.

I am really paying more attention to everything. There's been no fighting or bickering for 2 whole days now and I'm able to focus on him alot more, being one on one.

I am keeping a mental journal so to speak. He seeks attention and I have to admit that I do not play with him, by that I mean: bored games, cards, cars, that sort of thing....but we do read, watch shows, do yard work, help him with homework, help him organize...these things we do together. I know I when I show him more, I get more from him. This is not to excuse his rude behavior, but I have take some responsibility for my own behavior. He definitely got a quick temper from me. My DH is his hero, worships the ground he walks on and has a wonderful, loving and affectionate father who cares about both his kids very much.

I want to see how the week goes and be able to see if there's a difference in his behavior. I want to see what he is in control of and what he cannot control.

He spent the entire day with my friend on sunday, playing games, walking her puppy, bathing the puppy, doing puzzles, eating dinner together and she said it was a wonderful day and she could not have had a better day with him and said he was great. He shows great affection toward animals, which thrilled her with her new little fur baby.

We are going away Aug 23-26 and my kids are with this person and my IL's during our absence and I have asked them to keep a little journal if they could of the good, bad and ugly, so when I do move forward I can give different scenarios and what makes him tic, for the lack of a better word.

I'm so overwhelmed with info right now and I need to wait a few weeks before I act so I can give this my full attention.

Thank you, my support group.

[lunapnp]

LoriX2,
I'm glad you are having time to spend one on one with your son. That will help you get more insight hopefully to his behavior. I can say, though, with my DD she was an "angel" when she had one on one. However, it's almost impossible to do one on one as much as she would like. I have another child and sometimes that's just impossible! :) Anyway, when my DD first started having problems, she only had outbursts at home...never anywhere else and was never physically aggressive with anyone else. However, as time went on she proceeded to have outbursts with grandparents and other extended family members (still doesn't have these problems at school!). I'm saying this to say that you shouldn't feel like it is all related to the fact that you can't spend one on one time with him all the time. I went down the guilt trip road, too, because I felt like a lot of it was my fault because I didn't have as much patience with my DD as I felt like I should have. Now that she is on medication I can see that some of her problems truly are related to some type of *imbalance* in her brain. I am not faultless, either, but I don't totally blame myself now. Hang in there. Know that we're all thinking about you.

[Lorix2]

Hi everyone, OP here....

I feel terrible about abandoning my own thread, (not that you were all hanging around waiting for me ;) ) but I had to come to terms to the fact that my son could benefit from counseling and possibly medication.

After a few outbursts, the last being like this just the other day, I'll set up the "scene" for you.

He took a nasty fall at recess and his scraped skin seemed white and ***** even after it was cleaned, etc...so the pedi suggested coming in to be seen, which he balked at, but he went. The nurse took his temp, but the thing wouldn't work and he did try patiently 3x. She left and returned with another and then he gave her a hard time about doing it again, she did her thing and told us the dr would be in. Before the dr came in, he said "this is stupid, I'm outta here" and tried to leave. I stopped him by standing calmly before the door and told him to stop getting upset and that the dr would be in soon. He just kept carrying on....the dr obviously heard my stern warnings and came in and said, "I can see you don't want to be here, I'll try to make this quick" and he did. He said the wound could use more cleaning, but felt my son wouldn't comply (which I knew) and sent me home with some sponges and guaze to do it myself. I had him apologize to the dr and he did.

After we got the car, I asked him why and what makes him feel the need to be rude and defiant and he said he didn't know why and when I reminded him that I thought counseling might help and told him how many kids sometimes take medicine to help curb those feelings of anger and bad behavior, he said "I would do that". He also told me he didn't care if he died, only because I told him it was important to take care of the wound to prevent infection which could make him sick.

so the whole way home I cried silent tears behind my sunglasses and looking in my rear view watching my son stare blankly out the window and I realized then at that point, it was time, I've wasted too much of it hoping to change my parenting style or hoping he'd grow out of it, but I know it's not to be at this present time. I felt helpless and numb.

If you are still with me now, I have submitted the papers back to the pediatrician, but is was a scoring scale for ADHD and honestly most did not apply to him, but his own answers surprised me a little on his self version.

So I will wait to hear for our appointment. He just entered 4th grade and seems to be doing well, he gets right up and ready for school and says goodbye happily and comes home happily. I'm SO torn about this whole situation...

Thank you everyone for every word of advice and encouragement you have given to me.

[Forevryoung]

:grouphug:

[KirstenB]

Lori, thanks for keeping us updated. I wish I had some words of wisdom, but I don't. I'm glad you're pursuing this, and trying to help him. It's amazing how much one child can affect the entire family isn't it?

Our older dd is on Concerta for ADD. It has made a difference in her ability to pay attention (I know that's probably not your main concern, but just wanted to let you know we've had a positive experience with the whole ADD eval/diagnosis/meds thing). Take care and I hope you're able to get some answers.

[Lorix2]

Thanks alot Kirsten, it IS amazing how one child can affect the family for sure, even involving the inlaws, that's hard to swallow. I feel like a very tiny weight has been lifted now that the ball is in their court so to speak..

I'm glad to hear of your DD's success and wish you all continued good thoughts and happy times. :)

[momof5boys]

Please hang in there. When I read you first post it was like looking at DSS when he was that age. He has ADHD and ODD. He was so definant it was horrible, if he was alone with a parent and no other kids it wasok but as you can see by my screen name that was a rarity. And no I didn't like the kid! It got so bad that we let him live with his mother even though we questioned her parenting skills. Needless to say 1 1/2years after going to live with her he was back, failed 5th grade. I had to start all over again with meds consueling. He is now 16 and a completly different person(kindof) When he hit puberty he changed for the better, off all meds, still gets argumentive at times (what teenager doesn't) My prayers are with you. :)