Feel really down as DD4 goes to school and Head says no holidays

[PoppyAnna]

Eldest DD4 princess: starts school full time in January :teacher: The borough and the Head used to allow up to seven days holiday outside school term, according to the Head from the new school year no holiday days are allowed.
We really enjoyed our trip to Orlando in May and want to continue going, maybe not every year but probably every other year. I feel so rescricted now. I have little desire to go in the hot humid summer months and even less desire to go any later in December than the first two weeks. Easter is too busy to. It makes me sound really miserable but we've been spoilt the two times we have visited the parks when we've been to Florida as in May they have low crowds and short wait times, couple this with perfect weather and I just don't feel like going at any other time.
Am I right to feel like this? Or will I just get used to it?
What do you all do? Do you only go in school holidays?

[jns]

we go in the school holidays
but but are going in the oct break taking a few days off before and another few days after the break :laughing:
my way of thinking well they are not missing a full week :rotfl2:
at 4 years are they really missing that much from school :confused3
now the year they have exams thats another matter

you can aways say it is booked already for next year and play dum:rolleyes1

[PoppyAnna]

In addition - is everybody's school having their easter half term in April even though Easter is in March next year?

[TinkTatoo]

We go in the school holidays - their education is important and as we go every year I couldn't justify regularly taking them out of school.

I agree with Jackie though at 4 your DD wouldn't be missing too much so you could always say you had a holiday booked :rolleyes1

[emily1982]

I work in a school so i see it from the other side, im not allowed holidays in term time so i can understand where the school is coming from. People say 'oh well you knew that when you took the job', yes i did, but im also on a very low pay as a nursery nurse and i still have to find the money to afford holidays.

I work in a reception class and they do miss out. We assess through their everyday play, so if there not there to assess its their profile it affects.

[Maza]

In addition - is everybody's school having their easter half term in April even though Easter is in March next year?

My kids are off at Easter. Easter is quite early this year. Easter is a great time to go to Florida or California. My work commitments sometimes make it difficult to have holidays in the summer school holidays (we have to take turns ) so we frequently have our big family holiday at easter. The parks are generally quiet...its not too warm (but better than here!lol) and the kids have 2 weeks off...occasionally an inset day, so make the most of it! You get used to actually having your holidays dictated for you by school..but education is important, not just in exam years. They miss so much by being off at the end of the year...the fun things...sports days..day trips etc. I wouldn't take mine out! And they are only at school for 14 years...!:lmao:

[PoppyAnna]

Thank you all so far, I'm not looking for justification to take her out, my DD4 is quite shy and quite attached to me and after settling her in school full time I think any time away would be noticed.
Her half term is from her birthday Friday 4 April even though Easter is in March (they are just having the Bank holidays off in March). Maybe I've exposed a loophole for 2008 if others are having their two weeks Easter hols in March - it could be less busy and cheaper for us!
Off to check Virgin's M+M fares.......

[mark&sue]

Due to my work comitments I can only take a few days at Christmas and only one week at Easter. The only two week period I am allowed to take in the school holidays are the last two weeks of August.

So we will be going in August this year and if it is too hot and humid will not be back to WDW until 2010 when DD leaves school. Anyone interested in renting my DVC points for 2008 and 2009???


Susan

[PoppyAnna]

This is the thing, we were considering a hefty DVC investment too....:sad1:

[tennisfan]

A few of the education authorities are going over to the new term structures where you have Good Friday & Easter Monday off when it is Easter and then have the 2 weeks off at the beginning of April except when Easter falls in April. The education authority who my sister works for has been doing this for a couple of years now.

I'm also pretty sure that the travel agents are aware of this and price accordingly.

[theb52s]

I'm surprised your DD's school will not allow any holidays in term time. My children's school allow up to 10 days every year for family holidays and it's the same throughout our area. Have you checked with your local education authority on the position in your area despite what your head says? I also thought legally in this country children don't have to attend school until they are five although most do start school at 4. You may want to check that out.

[wils]

from Kent C.C. website

Family holidays
A headteacher can grant up to two weeks absence in any school year for a family holiday, but only if this is unavoidable and the absence from school will not harm your child's education. Always speak with the school before booking a term time holiday.


Have I the right to take my child out of school for a holiday during term time?
The simple answer to this is No.

Pupils absence during term time can seriously disrupt their continuity of learning. Not only do they miss the teaching provided on the days that they are away, but they are also less prepared for lessons after their return.

This can create the risk of poor results for your child. If you want your child to be away from school on a family holiday for up to two weeks (10 school days), you need to ask the school to approve the absence, at least two weeks in advance. This can however be refused and, if not agreed by the Headteacher will be classed as unauthorised absence.

It is particularly important that you do not plan for your child to be absent during the run up to SAT's and examinations at 16+. Such absence would mean that your child is not assessed and this may affect your child's progress.


We plan to take DD out of school next Autumn when she is 5. Our school says it is preferable not to take holiday in term time (it is certainly not something we intend doing every year) but its a trip we have been planning with the in-laws for many years and I hope it won't be a problem :rolleyes:)

Sending you a :hug:

[PoppyAnna]

I'm surprised your DD's school will not allow any holidays in term time. My children's school allow up to 10 days every year for family holidays and it's the same throughout our area. Have you checked with your local education authority on the position in your area despite what your head says? I also thought legally in this country children don't have to attend school until they are five although most do start school at 4. You may want to check that out.

It was the head that was flexible and it's now the local authority (Bromley LB) that have pulled in the reins! Didn't really want to take her out but would have felt better about it if it were allowed.

[T16GEM]

I am sure that if you were to talk to the head about the type of holiday that you are planning to take and explain that it is educational as well as a holiday then I am sure that they will let you take the time. Otherwise I would act dumb and say it was already booked, what are they going to do if you do take her? Not let her come back?

[jtlover]

I think that the rules should be changed for primary schools - it should be that you cant take them out of school at secondary school only!

What is annoying is when they have loads of teacher training days during the term time!!!!!:confused3

Agree the place is very education, especially if you take them to Epcot:thumbsup2

[emily1982]

I think that the rules should be changed for primary schools - it should be that you cant take them out of school at secondary school only!

What is annoying is when they have loads of teacher training days during the term time!!!!!:confused3

Agree the place is very education, especially if you take them to Epcot:thumbsup2
Teacher training day are exactly that- training days! If their mid-term you might find it's because theyve been organised by the council. Sometimes the only time u can have them is mid-term, due to people coming in or schools joining together to have an inset. When else do you want teachers to have them? During their holidays!

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

When else do you want teachers to have them? During their holidays!

YES!

Teachers, like the majority of the workforce should have only 25 days a year off from work, not the months they currently have.

Training days, i.e. extra days out of school cause no end of problems for the families of the children they teach. Come back a week earlier from yoour 6 week summer holidays and have your training then.

[pixiepower04]

YES!

Teachers, like the majority of the workforce should have only 25 days a year off from work, not the months they currently have.

Training days, i.e. extra days out of school cause no end of problems for the families of the children they teach. Come back a week earlier from yoour 6 week summer holidays and have your training then.

When I was working it caused no end of probelms when teachers had their training days and inset days and it meant that I had to take annual leave.

My children go back to school after the summer holidays on a Tuesday because the teachers are training! So I guess it's okay for them to make your child miss school but not the parents!

I am really quite lucky with my childrens school and they are quite accommodating. I now work for myself as a Wedding Cake Designer and so my busiest months are from April to September with the odd one or two in the other months so they have let me for the last two years take them out of school for a week in March to go to DLP but next year when we go back to WDW we will be going in September for 3 weeks but two of those weeks are the October holidays so actually they will be missing only a week.

My children will be 10 and 8 then and after that I may have to consider going in the holidays but the school understand why I take them out and are quite good about it, they gave DD8 school work to do while she was away which was good but I do think that they learn so much when they are away, social skills, cultural awareness etc and I think schools really should embrace this.

[emily1982]

YES!

Teachers, like the majority of the workforce should have only 25 days a year off from work, not the months they currently have.

Training days, i.e. extra days out of school cause no end of problems for the families of the children they teach. Come back a week earlier from yoour 6 week summer holidays and have your training then.

It also causes no end of problems when people take their children out of school when their doing SAT's, we've had to accomadate 5 sets of parents during various nights of week as they were away during parents evening. I know not everyone is like that.

Well if your allowed to take YOUR child out of school whilst we're teaching the rest of them why on earth would i take time off my holidays??Also most people get paid for extra time, i work about 42 hours a week and only get paid for 32.5, i do that because things need to be done. I dont get paid for parents evening, induction evenings, the residential im going on with 29 5 year olds this week...i do them so the children in my class have a good quality of school life. I enjoy my job and i knew what i was coming into when i started the job, but it annoys me when they think teachers are having 'all these holidays'. Yeah i am, but im not paid for the either!

Besides i work as a nursery nurse in a school, i probably earn half of what the parents in my class are earning

[tashasmum]

YES!

Teachers, like the majority of the workforce should have only 25 days a year off from work, not the months they currently have.

Training days, i.e. extra days out of school cause no end of problems for the families of the children they teach. Come back a week earlier from yoour 6 week summer holidays and have your training then.

Well said Obi.

DD's school has three teacher training days coming up. 2 days before they should have broke up and one day on the day should return from the holidays. But ask to take them out a week early and its a major problem.

However the school can send them enterprise days (3 school days wasted), Work experience (2 weeks wasted unless you can get them into somewhere decent) or sit in the school hall watching Pirate DVD's.

DH is an Engineer and is working on a new school, the scheme has been delayed due to the weather but the head said no problem about the move being delayed till half term as he would tag a couple of teacher traning days on before hand. So they seem to be used for anything they want

[kev kendall]

As a headteacher, please can I add the following:-

My summer holidays are largely spent re-energising myself. I arrive in school at 7:30 and leave at 6 and work from home most nights! The holidays are not paid for. I believe teaching is one of the most stressful jobs and least paid on the professional scales!! So yea - we are lucky to have long breaks - but we work mighily hard too!!!!

Holidays - the other way of looking at it is that if the school marks the absences down as unathorised - are you that bothered. If the child has otherwise perfect attendance then it is unlikely that the authorities will actually prosecute anyway! Best to check with the school's policy - popular schools may have it in their policy to withdraw a child's place if holidays are taken against the school's wishes.

I personally authorise upto 10 days if it's the only opportunity to have the time as a family. Having said that though - education is important!!!

[pixiepower04]

It also causes no end of problems when people take their children out of school when their doing SAT's, we've had to accomadate 5 sets of parents during various nights of week as they were away during parents evening. I know not everyone is like that.

Well if your allowed to take YOUR child out of school whilst we're teaching the rest of them why on earth would i take time off my holidays??Also most people get paid for extra time, i work about 42 hours a week and only get paid for 32.5, i do that because things need to be done. I dont get paid for parents evening, induction evenings, the residential im going on with 29 5 year olds this week...i do them so the children in my class have a good quality of school life. I enjoy my job and i knew what i was coming into when i started the job, but it annoys me when they think teachers are having 'all these holidays'. Yeah i am, but im not paid for the either!

Besides i work as a nursery nurse in a school, i probably earn half of what the parents in my class are earning


Stop bringing pay into the equation, if you feel that hard done by qualify as a teacher or get a job that pays you well enough.

I think what Obi was trying to say was that we may only want to take our children out of school for a week but your inset days and training days are more than a week so why is it okay for teachers but not for us.

Also, without trying to cause an argument and whilst I do think that education is important it is not the be all and end all. I missed many days at school because of a bad childhood, being in a childrens home etc but I am a healthy, happy, fairly intelligent 36 year old with two very bright children, a husband who works for the Ambulance Service and I also own my own business.

There is more to life than school and whilst it may not be ideal they do learn many skills when they are away from school that school just cannot teach, they are also able to keep practising their maths, english, geography etc.

I think nursery nurse's do a great job and my kids adore their teachers but there has to be give and take and I don't know about anyone else children but my kids get 'brain tired' about two weeks before the school holidays and end up tetchy and ready for a break.

[Danauk]

I do not usually comment on taking children out of school threads but I really feel I need to get a teachers view across here.

In regard to the teacher training days, I personally would not have a problem having them all at once at the start of the new school year, however we are told when we have to have our training days so the decision is out of our hands.

I realise that teachers do seem to have a lot of time off work, and yes I agree that is can be a perk of the job but it is not like we sit at home for the 6 weeks doing nothing. Out of the 6 weeks break I will probably spend 1 week actually in school and a further 2 weeks actually doing school work (planning, looking at the assessment data for my new class and looking at their targets so I can plan my lessons to meet the needs of the targets etc.) I am by no means moaning about my work just pointing out that teaching is a lot more that teaching children in a classrooom from 9am - 3pm. The same is said for half terms, Easter and Christmas breaks. I do end up doing a lot of school work during those times as well.

As for the taking time off school. I teach year 6 so my class have to sit their SATs at the end of the year. The way we are currently expected to teach (and this is set out by the government) for literacy and numeracy is that we teach units in 3 - 5 week blocks. Especially in literacy where we often spend a week studying texts in detail before doing our own writing in a similar style. If you miss the detailed reading week you can not do the written tasks as well as the rest of the class. This is something you can not catch up on.

In previous years I did not mind children taking a week of for holiday with their family. However with the new ways we have to teach children are at a great disadvantage if they miss school. However our school policy still allows children to have 10 days holiday a year.

[kev kendall]

There are only 5 inset days a year. In my authority a year ago we had to take them in our holidays - it did not go down well......

[emily1982]

Stop bringing pay into the equation, if you feel that hard done by qualify as a teacher or get a job that pays you well enough.

I think what Obi was trying to say was that we may only want to take our children out of school for a week but your inset days and training days are more than a week so why is it okay for teachers but not for us.

Also, without trying to cause an argument and whilst I do think that education is important it is not the be all and end all. I missed many days at school because of a bad childhood, being in a childrens home etc but I am a healthy, happy, fairly intelligent 36 year old with two very bright children, a husband who works for the Ambulance Service and I also own my own business.

There is more to life than school and whilst it may not be ideal they do learn many skills when they are away from school that school just cannot teach, they are also able to keep practising their maths, english, geography etc.

I think nursery nurse's do a great job and my kids adore their teachers but there has to be give and take and I don't know about anyone else children but my kids get 'brain tired' about two weeks before the school holidays and end up tetchy and ready for a break.

I'm bringing pay into the equation because at the end of the day this argument is about money and people going on holidays because it is cheaper during term time. I wouldn't want to train as a teacher as i love my job. Teachers aren't having holidays during inset days, there working!! Their training to teach your children!

[tashasdad]

As a headteacher, please can I add the following:-

My summer holidays are largely spent re-energising myself. I arrive in school at 7:30 and leave at 6 and work from home most nights! The holidays are not paid for. I believe teaching is one of the most stressful jobs and least paid on the professional scales!! So yea - we are lucky to have long breaks - but we work mighily hard too!!!!

Holidays - the other way of looking at it is that if the school marks the absences down as unathorised - are you that bothered. If the child has otherwise perfect attendance then it is unlikely that the authorities will actually prosecute anyway! Best to check with the school's policy - popular schools may have it in their policy to withdraw a child's place if holidays are taken against the school's wishes.

I personally authorise upto 10 days if it's the only opportunity to have the time as a family. Having said that though - education is important!!!


I would like to have the chance to spend 6 weeks re-energising myself, however a standard day for myself is 7 till 7, however in my profession (Engineering which at the lower grades has lower pay scales than teaching)
we regularly have to get up at 4.00-5.00 in the morning to get to sites or meetings and are back at 9-10.00 at night (with no overtime payments) We sit in traffic jams or on packed trains travelling the country, working on tighter and tighter deadlines for lower and lower fees with less people entering the industry so staffing is a major problem. We get 20 days holiday a year of which usually 3 have to be saved for Christmas.

Yes teaching is stressful but so are so many other professions, how many Doctors, Nurses, Police and Fire men and women would like 6 weeks to re-energise. I understand that during the 6 weeks you sit at home to plan lessons etc, but you are still sat at home. In addition at a recent parents evening we were talking to a teacher about the summer holidays and she said she gets bored during them as she doesn't have much to do.

I cannot believe the comment that holidays are not paid for, you tell me teachers have 10 weeks unpaid leave a year.

However in the last two weeks of school my DD, who goes into her final year of secondary school has done minimal lessons, we have had two school trips (non-educational), a sports day, DVD watching, Enterprise Day and the final day they finish at lunch.

[mark&sue]

This is not about money for us. Both me and DH left school at 16 but have very well paid jobs but because I work with other parents with school age children we all want the same time off work and obviously cannot get it.

It is as simple as that. The whole country can't take the same time off work (apart from teachers!)

We are buying a holiday home in Spain (probably driving our own car) and have DVC points (DVC points are lower in many of our UK school holidays) so accommodation is already paid this is so not about money.



Susan

[emily1982]

This is not about money for us. Both me and DH left school at 16 but have very well paid jobs but because I work with other parents with school age children we all want the same time off work and obviously cannot get it.

It is as simple as that. The whole country can't take the same time off work (apart from teachers!)

We are buying a holiday home in Spain (probably driving our own car) and have DVC points (DVC points are lower in many of our UK school holidays) so accommodation is already paid this is so not about money.



Susan


Fair play Sue it might not be for you,im quite sure it is for alot of other people.

I honestly dont have a problem with people taking a few days or a long weekend, but we have children off for a full fortnight.

Also i dont get paid for all my holidays, just the minimum holiday. I've tried getting another job for the summer but as im going in for a few days over the summer to sort classrooms out then ive got some paperwork to do, i couldn't do it.

[scottishsue]

YES!

Teachers, like the majority of the workforce should have only 25 days a year off from work, not the months they currently have.

Training days, i.e. extra days out of school cause no end of problems for the families of the children they teach. Come back a week earlier from your 6 week summer holidays and have your training then.

I totally agree with you Obi !! When the rest of the country get 25 days PER YEAR, why do teachers have to have 30 in the summer, 10 at Easter, 10 at Christmas, 10 in October..... adding up to 60 while the rest of us get 25? (Never mind teacher training days, which is certainly more than 5 on my last count). Slight difference there, don't you think?

And don't complain about the pay - my next door neighbour teaches at secondary, and the man across the road taught at primary school, so I know what they earn !!

Our schools have been pretty good really, and we have never had a problem taking the boys on holidays. My husband works in the oil business and is extremely busy during the summer months, hence the reason we go in October. And it is educational taking them abroad anyway - so we have been told, by teachers here.

[Lisash]

This subject always causes the most arguments. I try to avoid term time as much as I can but have often taken my kids out of school for the odd few days before term finishes. As DD finished school with 9 GCSE passes at Grade C or above I would have to say her education hasn't suffered and she is a happier more well rounded adult for having spent time travelling the world and spending quality time with her family. I got so tired of the lecture from the schools receptionists I now just call them in as sick for a couple of days. It has lead to some very quick calls from the Manchester airport toilets whilst trying to avoid the giveaway passenger announcements on the tannoy system :rotfl:

[tennisfan]

Not wanting to argue but can I just step in here about teachers, yes the children are not in for about 6 weeks during the summer but the teachers are. My sister usually has about 3 to 3.5 weeks off during the summer as a teacher as they have to go in and plan & prepare for the next academic year. Also add up all the time they spend in meetings after 3.30pm.

Also she has to go in for a few days all the other holidays. The amount of people I speak to seem to have this view that teachers have loads of holidays but I know a few and know this is not the case.

Her school does tend to have training days attached to holidays to make it easier for the parents.

I can see it from a parents point of view but at the end of the day it is the local government who are inforcing the taking no time off during term time not the schools itself.

My advice would be to have a chat with the head teacher & explain your reasons why you want to do it.

[hildasmuriel]

In our school we have many children who take extended holidays - 4 or 6 weeks being quite common. They are tested before leaving and on return and nearly all have gone backwards after their holiday. None of them have ever made any progress in their absence. These are unauthorised absences, but the Education Authority do not have the bottle to take legal action - it might be seen as racist against a certain section of the local community.

Only 6 years ago I would have agreed about teachers having too much holiday, but once I started work in a school I really had my eyes opened. I never realised HOW MUCH work and time the good teachers put into their lessons.
They are also paid a set number of hours a year, but they ALL work far more than that. I know lots of other industries do (certainly all the rest of my family do) but they don't have the endless criticism levelled at them that teachers do. Their set hours are all worked in term times, so in essence their holidays are unpaid.
Support staff are only paid for term times plus a few holiday days - for example I am paid for 42.3 weeks of the year - the other 9.2 weeks are unpaid.

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

I am sorry but there is a lot of nonsense talked about how hard done by teachers are.
Their trades union is threatening to strike unless they get a 10% pay rise and according to their own union this is around £3,000
They finish normal work by 15;30 and maybe put a couple of hours in after that, they start at what? at 8:30?

The amount of people in this country working more than 45 hours a week and on a damn sight less than teachers is growing all the time, the majority of teachers work is the same each year with minor changes to a set curriculum, they won't work after hours so all meetings are held in school time, our country is seeing less after school actrivites.
We ALL work more than our contracted hours a year, without having the benefits that teachers get, such as an inflation proof pension and if you look at a teachers hourly rate, its a LOT better than the wealth creating workers of this country that make the money to pay for these very good wages and benefits.
Yet still they are the only profession that moans on about how hard they work and the "poor" salaries they get and the extra hours they work and the "stress" of teaching.
Sorry but it just does not wash any more.

As for taking time off in school hours, well how many times has your child come back from school saying that their normal teacher is off and a substitute is in? How much does that effect their learning?

I wonder how much the teachers hourly contract rate is compared to the manufacturing industry for example?
Many manufacturing workers working over 45 hours are on the minimum wage and get only 25 days off a year
How is a teachers rate against a nurses or a Junior Doctor and the horrendous hours they work? or the Police Constable or even the poor damn squaddie having his head shot at in Afghanistan?

Come on Teachers, you KNOW you have it good compared to the majority in this country.

(Flame suit well and truly on) :-)

[emily1982]

You really think we arrive at 8:30 and finish at 3:30? Blimey, so why was i at work the other day at 7:30am setting up equipment so my children could have a special day? mmm Also we don't get paid for staff meetings, so no, their not contracted into our day!

Maybe you should get your facts straight before you start throwing comments.

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

You really think we arrive at 8:30 and finish at 3:30? Blimey, so why was i at work the other day at 7:30am setting up equipment so my children could have a special day? mmm Also we don't get paid for staff meetings, so no, their not contracted into our day!

Maybe you should get your facts straight before you start throwing comments.

Well, bully for you!
As someone who is at the office by 05:30 and home around 23:00 I am so very impressed with you being at school an hour earlier than normal.
I am sure you will be able to recover in the six weeks break you are having.
What time will you finish on Friday then? As I am informed my son's school want the children picked up at 14:00 instead of 15:15 as its last day!
Thats really useful to working parents!

[Frances999]

As I am informed my son's school want the children picked up at 14:00 instead of 15:15 as its last day!
Thats really useful to working parents!
That used to really annoy me about my children's school back in Bath - the last day of term they always finished at 12.30pm which was a pain in the backside for sorting out childcare arrangements when DH and I were at work.

I'm not going to get into the debate about teacher's pay. In my opinion, they are paid fairly - although I was disgusted to recently learn about the pay of some teaching assistants who seem to do almost as much work as the teacher for a disgraceful amount of money.

With regards to taking your children out of school, I've been dealing with it since my eldest was five. Their school never allowed time off for holiday, so we've had to get used to travelling in peak time.

[emily1982]

It's not my fault your child's school wants them picked up early!

Friday i will probably finish at 4pm since the day before i would have took 30 5year olds away for the night, but then ill go in on monday.

I'm not judgeing your job obi, so don't judge any of ours. Especially when you don't know the ins and outs.

[lawlesslovewdw]

Well said OBI. We run our own business, we work 7 days a week- if a client needs us we answer the phone etc etc, we even work on holiday, the lap top blackberry and phones come everywhere with us! We have 2 young children (one who is asd - and school meetings take up a lot of time). We start work when we wake up and I am known to be writing reports at midnight! How many days holiday do we get ZERO, NIL, ZILCH. One last point I had to pay for my uni education didnt get any free, dont teachers get more help there? Yes you teachers do us a service, and some of you are better than others, but unlike the low low paid care assistants etc you dont work bank holidays christmas day etc you knew the score why moan.

As for my children, yes we will try WDW for the last 2 weeks in August, if that doesnt work Oct half term plus a week it is:)

[mark&sue]

The thing is it is not teacher's fault. It is the government who feel the need to pick on middle class families as they can't control the pupils who truant.

Has truancy improved since these draconian rules have been brought in? I don't believe so. However the hard working parents are paying instead.

I am obsessed with holidays and feel I have made the right decision by only having one child as I really don't think I could go through all the arguments and agro I have to put up with at work to just get a few days off work during school holidays. Leave is no problem at all as I have 29 days basic and anonther 24 days as I work longer hours (flexi).

The whole situation is just not flexible. We cannot all take the same time off. We need to perhaps stagger the holidays. A more up-to-date and family friendly approach needs to be taken.

Sorry to vent


Susan

and Lisah I know exactly what you are talking about. For some reason I thought the toilets would be quiet!!!


Susan


I

[jonkatony]

Teaching is a noble profession and should not take the blame for individuals who can not get the their work/life to balance. They are not responsible for hikes in travel costs during peak times. We all are responsible for our own lives if you do not like yours change it, do not 'belly ache' and critise others.
This country needs well trained teachers and responsible parents.
Flame away!

[Danauk]

,000
They finish normal work by 15;30 and maybe put a couple of hours in after that, they start at what? at 8:30?

Just so you are aware, I start work at 7:30am and leave at 5:30pm, I would stay longer but this is when the caretaker locks up. Then I on average work another 3 or 4 hours a night. My school is finishing at normal time on Friday, and as I have previously stated I will not get 6 weeks off work, I will be working either in school or out of school for 3 of them. And yes those days will be full working days, not a few hours when I feel like it. Oh and I also spend on average 7 hours every Sunday doing school work.
Again I am not complaining about this, I am aware what my job entails, I just wish people would actually learn the facts rather than presuming teachers only work term time Monday to Friday 9 - 3.

[pixiepower04]

Unless i'm seeping - i'm working, I work from home and I know that many of us have same hours as teachers.

Speaking from my own work year making wedding cakes, I have to start planning and buying and thinking and designing up to a year in advance and as I no longer have the same benefits as being employed I actually can only take about 2 weeks off a year for a holiday and although teachers do alot of work at home and during holidays (like I do) they also get 10 weeks off a year and even if you take off the hours spent planning and timetabling, marking etc you would prbably still get more holidays than the rest of us who also work long hours and some for less pay.

My children finish school at 12 noon on the last day of term, for all the holidays during the year. I know you guys have to do parents evenings, sports days, day trips etc etc but so do we! We have to use annual leave in order to attend these things too and some of us work far from the school and so it's not a quick jaunt up the road and then a quick jaunt back!

The argument which we've lost sight of is about taking children out of school for about 10 school days, it shouldn't be frowned upon and should be allowed depending on the age of the children, as long as the mickey isn't being taken.

Some children may find it hard to get back in to the swng of things when they get back but you know what, what do you think 6 weeks off in the summer does, I know for a fact that my children forget nearly everything by the time they go back and it usually takes a long time for them to get back into it so the argument surely can't be about them missing out on essential work as they are only going to forget it over the summer anyway!!

[Mrs Dazzle]

OMG:eek: :eek: Why does this topic always degenerate in to a 'bash the teachers' one:confused3

I too work in a school in a very lowly paid profession as Admin Officer, working late EVERY day, but it's part and parcel of the nature of the job. One of the main reasons I cannot leave on time is because I have to child mind those children left in my office due to parents who have not collected them on time - don't flame me yet, I have every sympathy with working parents, I am one and was a very stressfully working full-timer before this job, so I don't have too much of a problem staying to do this, as long as it's not taken for granted.

I've been flamed before for taking the stance, like someone else has said, of asking people to look at this subject from the view of those who work in a school and cannot take time off during term time - I was 'told' I must have been aware that I would not be able to take holidays in term time when I applied for the job - actually, it honestly didn't cross my mind - I'd been made redundant a year before as PR Manager for a large bank and was so happy to be able to find a nice little job that tied in with family life without previous pressures, that thinking about holidays (other than I'd never have to worry about someone else looking after my DD during 'all the school hols' . . . .) really didn't cross my mind.

My DH cannot, due to his job, take any time off in the summer. We've always liked to take 2.5 - 3 weeks in Florida each trip, but this is not possible any more - we just have to make do with what we can take and when.

Flame retardant suit buttoned up. . . . .

ps - Obi - what the heck do you do that means you're in the office from
5.30am - 11.30pm - that's just not right, you must be constantly cream crackered!

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

ps - Obi - what the heck do you do that means you're in the office from
5.30am - 11.30pm - that's just not right, you must be constantly cream crackered!

You adapt Mrs D. :goodvibes
As my buisness is multi national, I have to be in contact with the Far East (Taiwan and Japan)and the West Coast of the USA, so time differences preclude a 9-5.

But I have over 50 people depending on me, so you have to weigh it up.

I can work on around 3-4 hours sleep a day, then I make up for it when I do have time away.

[emily1982]

How about....you all stop bashing at teachers/support staff, as unless you actually work in it i can't see how you can judge and since non of the teachers/ support staff are judging your jobs it seems to be a very one way argument. Also im not putting everyone under the same cloak, but teachers need training constantly, and parents are always the first to moan if something isnt up to scratch a school is a place to learn and experience things not a babysitting service, so if the schools decide to shut at mid-day, fair play to them.

[wideeyes]

Teaching is one of the least respected professions that there is and the way this thread has gone just emphasise that. Web designers are thought of more highly than teachers. I really don't understand negative attitude towards teachers.

Teaching is a job that needs constant training as educational policies, curriculum's, teaching methods, and laws constantly change.

[lawlesslovewdw]

Teaching is one of the least respected professions that there is and the way this thread has gone just emphasise that. Web designers are thought of more highly than teachers. I really don't understand negative attitude towards teachers.

Teaching is a job that needs constant training as educational policies, curriculum's, teaching methods, and laws constantly change.

I am sorry I dont agree with. I fully respect some of the teaching staff that i have come in contact with, however saying that like in any other profession there are some that really shouldnt be in the job. I think that the majority of people dont like hearing about how hard done by teachers are, when in retrospect to other careers you are not that hard done by.

The negative attitude is usually by those who dont care about their childs education or well being.

My negative attitude is more, I have fought (with teachers support) for the correct school, one to one (ASD special needs) to be told you cant have your holiday when it is acceptable to you only us, however we are closing 2 days early due to this reason or other. At this moment we are told that families are important, we dont do enough with them, well holidays are our family time and unfortunatly they have to fit around everyone not just the school.

Its about time we had a complete re shuffle of school term times

[emily1982]

I dont agree with re-shuffling, the prices would just change to fit those holidays. In an ideal world each council could have it's own holidays, but when Birmingham council tried changing their term dates, staff who worked in our council Dudley couldnt have time off with their kids or some people have one child in one council school and one in a different council.

In holland it's against the law for travel companies to change prices during school holidays, personally i think that's what should happen.

[wils]

In holland it's against the law for travel companies to change prices during school holidays, personally i think that's what should happen.

Well said. I used to sit next to the pricing department in a travel company's HQ - needless to say they had someone collating all the term dates for all the regions.

[wideeyes]

Research that has shown that teachers are placed way down near the bottom when it comes to respect of the profession, it is also one of the lowest paid jobs that require a university degree. Though teachers play an important role in the community, and do more than teach Maths and English, they have to deal with all kinds of society problems and now have to work closely with social workers, police, the local health authority and children's families. Education is what makes society in the same way the family does.

[wideeyes]

In holland it's against the law for travel companies to change prices during school holidays, personally i think that's what should happen.

Then people will complain when all the hotels and flights are booked up in the summer holidays, people will always find something to complain about.

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

How about....you all stop bashing at teachers/support staff, as unless you actually work in it i can't see how you can judge and since non of the teachers/ support staff are judging your jobs it seems to be a very one way argument. Also im not putting everyone under the same cloak, but teachers need training constantly, and parents are always the first to moan if something isnt up to scratch a school is a place to learn and experience things not a babysitting service, so if the schools decide to shut at mid-day, fair play to them.

Its a two way thing, when they stop complaining how hard done by they are compared to everyone else, then people will stop commenting.
Funny how teachers are the first to complain when things do not suit them.

[emily1982]

No one was complaining just stating a point, didn't realise you worked in a school obi and knew so much about people's jobs, but of course you would only judge a person's job if you knew from first hand experience what the job was like wouldnt you?? I'm not replying anymore to this thread as its just going round in circles.

[hildasmuriel]

a school is a place to learn and experience things not a babysitting service,

I heard one parent complaining about a training day recently, saying "I have to use up all my holidays looking after my children" :rotfl2: I'm not sure if it came out quite how she meant it - what does a parent do with their holidays other than look after their children? It's the bit I enjoy - having some time to spend together as a family.:confused3

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

No one was complaining just stating a point, didn't realise you worked in a school obi and knew so much about people's jobs, but of course you would only judge a person's job if you knew from first hand experience what the job was like wouldnt you?? I'm not replying anymore to this thread as its just going round in circles.

What a ridicoulous statement Emily.
So, we should all not comment on MP's as we are not MP's or terrorism unless we are terrorists??
Can you not comment on racism unless you are a rascist?
Is this the way you teach debate at school?

Well, I am a parent of a school child cureently and a Council tax payer, plus a high income tax payer, I have been a school govenor. Your actions effect my life, so yes I beleive I have the right to comment.

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

I heard one parent complaining about a training day recently, saying "I have to use up all my holidays looking after my children" :rotfl2: I'm not sure if it came out quite how she meant it - what does a parent do with their holidays other than look after their children? It's the bit I enjoy - having some time to spend together as a family.:confused3

Oh I agree completly. I have never understood parents wanting holidays without their child.
I know of one family who go on holiday without their children who are packed off to either Gran and Grandad or are sent to "camp" for the duration of their holiday.

[Hilary]

Playing devil's advocate here ;) -

For those of you who say
"teachers know what they're getting into when they choose that career",
shouldn't you also say
"anyone who chooses* to have children knows that they will have to go to school"?!

(* and, yes, I do realise it's not as simple as choosing whether or not to have a family in every case)

I'm sitting firmly on the fence on the should you/shouldn't you take children out of school for holidays debate, as I believe every child and every family has different reasons for deciding to do whatever they do, if they have a choice.

We took our DDs out for a week almost every year throughout their school time, right up to A level year (youngest has just finished her A levels, so it's no longer an issue for us), BUT it was with the school's permission and we were very fortunate that DDs had virtually no time off through illness, and coped extremely well with their studies (both gaining great exam results). Had things been different for them, I'm sure we could well have decided differently.

Maybe that will be seen as irresponsible, but the decision was taken from my perpective as a trained teacher (although I've never held a mainstream school teaching post) and an ex school governor, as well as a parent :)

[mark&sue]

When I chose to have a child 14 years ago you could choose whether you wanted to disrupt their education and were allowed 10 days a year. Many parent chose not to and some chose to. Now that choice is taken away. I would definately not choose to have another child now.

I used to always take my daughter out of school and my work colleagues must have been very pleased now I have no choice and we argue like mad


Susan

[TinkTatoo]

What a great point Hilary

Playing devil's advocate here ;) -

For those of you who say
"teachers know what they're getting into when they choose that career",
shouldn't you also say
"anyone who chooses* to have children knows that they will have to go to school"?!



Why does a debate on taking children out of school always end up with people having a go at teachers as if it's their fault :confused3

[wideeyes]

Why does a debate on taking children out of school always end up with people having a go at teachers as if it's their fault :confused3

exactly, they are under huge pressure from the government to meet targets.

[queenarmadillo]

I think the real problem here is standardized testing. In primary school, my parents could take me out for a holiday if they wanted (which often they didnt *** I would miss the begining of term so have to get used to a new situation in which everyone else was already settled, or the end of term and miss the fun activities). I might miss out on a fair chunk of education about rainfall or the tudors, but in turn I would learn about spaceship earth and fossil fuels jeopardy style.
Today, due to the increase in standardized sylabuses, knowing about fossil fuels does not replace an ability to label the parts of a flower, or being coached into the precise language with which a SAT question needs to be answered. I certainly dont agree that this is an improvement on the way things were, but as it was an "improvement" implemented by our democratically elected government, then unless we are arguing democracy doesn't work, the majority of the country must have been in favour of it.

On a side not to the teacher bashing: the reason that the government is having to pay people to take teacher training and subsidize their degrees is because it is a job noone wants anymore. Teaching is one of the least respected of the degree professions, and although the long, unpaid holidays play a role in this, it is also one of the lowest paid. Sadly, most of the pupils now lack respect for their teachers aswell, so teachers (particularly in specialist schools) are lucky if they are merely ignored or shouted at rather than physically assaulted.

At least people with kids in school have the option of calling them in sick to get a term time holiday in. As the child of a teacher, there is absolutely no option of a termtime holiday, meaning we always have to pay top prices for our holidays, and I have to compete with all those who have the proper excuse of "kids in school" for the summer vacation dates if we want to go on a family holiday. If your kids had a supply teacher, it was because the teacher was sick enough to get a doctor's note, not *** she thought it would be nice to take advantage of the cheaper off peak vacation rates.

[angel659]

Wow what a debate :sad2:

First, I think this thread has gone off on a tangent from the OP. Who was merely looking for support and this thread has gone from an innocent thread to judging people. :sad2:

Second, I think everyone needs to take a step back. Everyone has at least one reason why they do not like about their job i.e. pay, hours, colleagues, etc lets not all get on our high horse and start criticizing peoples job.

I do not work within the teaching industry. I work as an Auxiliary Nurse and I work blooming hard. I work horrible hours including Christmas day, Boxing Day, New Years Eve and New Year’s Day. I love nursing, but hate the hours. Yes I knew this when I started, and I do not for one minute think it is unfair and unjust. We all do our own fair share of Christmas. I would certainly would not be nursing for the money or hours. I love it and this is the only reason why I nurse. I do not expect any sympathy from other people. Hospitals, care homes etc run 24-7. I expect that. We get paid time and half for Christmas day and Boxing Day. Time and third for new years day. I again accept this. Oh and we need training every year. I think I have seven training days a year that are compulsory. Believe me we need these updates. I think in the last 3 years I have worked at my trust. CPR has changed twice! Moving and handling has changed each year. Adult protection rules and extra regulations are always being updated.

I admire teachers and what they do. They have a tough enough job meeting the government’s expectations. I cannot imagine how hard it must be faced with discerning parents. I totally can see why teachers are considered the least respected professions. Have you seen today’s youth? I certainly have in my profession. I cannot imagine how hard it must be facing disrespectful teenagers or parents.

I know many nurses who have sisters or family who are teachers. It certainly is not play and games as some have said. They are working all hours god sends when it comes to marking homework. Especially senior school teachers. My dd gets home work every Friday she is in year 2. Apparently, in year 3 she will have homework every night. We must ask ourselves when are these marked. Certainly not in school time? When it comes to holidays, they are preparing the classes and the next terms projects. I take it and I am not preaching I know everything. I think they get guidelines what must be taught, but it is up to that particular teacher to put into practice.

Training days. Well these are good. All teachers need to learn new skills. A few schools in my local area were not up to scratch. With the new system of training days, the schools now are highly competing against the best schools in the area, if not are now better than those are. Regulations change as well. I.e. child protection. These are always needed to be discussed into full depth. It is not a simple case of an hour update. Believe me I have Adult protection courses at work. Its amazing how much has changed within a year. New forms to fill in, etc. Believe me these training days are needed.

We all can throw around statistics as much as we like. We used to work here or help here. Times change drastically. Let us support the teachers and not criticize them. If we cannot respect what they do then how can today’s children respect them.

Oh and I am taking my dd out of school in November for 10 days. This is allowed. I ensured that it was not when dd sats were on. I certainly would not be doing this when she is in year 6 onwards.

I certainly would not pat some ones back, because they work over 37.5 hours a week. Its not a contest. Everyone specializes in different areas. Every ones jobs are different!

:thumbsup2

[mark&sue]

Very good post Michelle

Looking forward to seeing you in August (hopefully not too hot and humid) at Prime time cafe.



Susan

[angel659]

Very good post Michelle

Looking forward to seeing you in August (hopefully not too hot and humid) at Prime time cafe.



Susan

Look forward to seeing you too. Cant promise I will look my best though LOL. Probably hot, red faced and tired. LOL

See you real soon :hug:

[Gillsfan]

Well, bully for you!
As someone who is at the office by 05:30 and home around 23:00 I am so very impressed with you being at school an hour earlier than normal.
I am sure you will be able to recover in the six weeks break you are having.
What time will you finish on Friday then? As I am informed my son's school want the children picked up at 14:00 instead of 15:15 as its last day!
Thats really useful to working parents!

OMG that reminds me of a classic Monty Python sketch...

FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at six o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of 'ot gravel, work twenty hour day at mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would thrash us to sleep with a broken bottle, if we were lucky!
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to 'ave to get up out of shoebox at twelve o'clock at night and lick road clean wit' tongue. We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit' bread knife.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
And you try and tell the young people of today that ..... they won't believe you.
ALL:
They won't!

Just for my 2p's worth, I think teachers generally do a wonderfull job under the circumstances our target driven governments have subscribed to. Just the other day, I went to a school fund raising summer fete to see all the teachers absolutely working their socks off, were they beng paid? I dont think so. :thumbsup2

[angel659]

OMG that reminds me of a classic Monty Python sketch...

FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at six o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of 'ot gravel, work twenty hour day at mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would thrash us to sleep with a broken bottle, if we were lucky!
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to 'ave to get up out of shoebox at twelve o'clock at night and lick road clean wit' tongue. We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit' bread knife.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
And you try and tell the young people of today that ..... they won't believe you.
ALL:
They won't!

Just for my 2p's worth, I think teachers generally do a wonderfull job under the circumstances our target driven governments have subscribed to. Just the other day, I went to a school fund raising summer fete to see all the teachers absolutely working their socks off, were they beng paid? I dont think so. :thumbsup2

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[wilma-bride]

Oh I agree completly. I have never understood parents wanting holidays without their child.
I know of one family who go on holiday without their children who are packed off to either Gran and Grandad or are sent to "camp" for the duration of their holiday.

Obi, you really don't give a toss who you offend or upset do you :sad2:

You know what, I for one am sick to death of the holier than thou attitude some DISers seem to have. What gives anybody the right to criticise anyone else's parenting methods, career choices or lifestyle decisions.

Personally, I have pretty much had my fill of the attitudes here on the DIS lately and am seriously reconsidering whether this is something I want to be a part of.

[saratogagirl]

I don't need to worry about school holidays, having no children Ian and I are able to suit ourselves pretty much. I have friends who are teachers and seem to work hard, doing a very worthwhile job. I just wanted to post that I agree with Joh concerning some posts lately, it leaves a sour taste in my mouth, the DIS was always my happy place, where I could get away from the crap of everyday life. I put up with enough sniping and nonsense at work.

[angel659]

I agree Joh and Jules. I was rather upset with this post myself. I tried to stay nice when I replied.

[saratogagirl]

you were nice Michelle, you are always nice, that what I love about you

[angel659]

Oh thanks Jules :hug:

[natalielongstaff]

You What gives anybody the right to criticise anyone else's parenting methods, career choices or lifestyle decisions.


::yes::

if i see a post i disagree with then i ignore it !! its unrealistic to expect everyone to agree all the time but please be grown up enough to walk away from a fight :sad2: i come on here to escape that behaviour as well

[alisonbestford]

::yes::

if i see a post i disagree with then i ignore it !! its unrealistic to expect everyone to agree all the time but please be grown up enough to walk away from a fight :sad2: i come on here to escape that behaviour as well

I have to agree ::yes::

[scottishsue]

Just out of interest, but something my husband mentioned might be of interest. What would happen if everything shut down like the schools !!

Schools close for 6 weeks in the summer.... 2 at Easter, 2 at Christmas and 2 in October. So should the Armed Forces, Police, Ambulance Services, Pilots, Gas and Oil Industry all shut down at the same time ??

We'd be in a sorry state if they did !!

If teachers worked the same hours as everyone else we would be far better off.

I have friends who like Obi, work long hours, and I admire these people.
They work hard to get where they are.

(BTW no-one is fighting, we are merely having a discussion, even if it is a somewhat heated one).

Grow up !!

[wideeyes]

I have friends who like Obi, work long hours, and I admire these people.
They work hard to get where they are.



Are they web designers?:rolleyes:

[Booknut]

Obi, you really don't give a toss who you offend or upset do you :sad2:

You know what, I for one am sick to death of the holier than thou attitude some DISers seem to have. What gives anybody the right to criticise anyone else's parenting methods, career choices or lifestyle decisions.

Personally, I have pretty much had my fill of the attitudes here on the DIS lately and am seriously reconsidering whether this is something I want to be a part of.


Joh, don't leave the DISboards!!! Yes, occasionally some people do say insensitive things but please just ignore it! People like that just want to make themselves feel better by making others feel inferior. Or maybe they don't realise they are doing it. Either way, who cares what they think?

We all seem to have different opinions on stuff, as this thread shows, but this has really gotten off topic and very snippy at times...

At the end of the day taking your child out of school for whatever reason is between you and your family and your school. I don't think the OP really wanted to hear everyone's opinions on teachers, council rules, parenting, holidays, wages and whiny 'I work harder than you do' posts!

Hakuna Matata :wizard:

[scottishsue]

Are they web designers?:rolleyes:


No actually they are NOT web designers !! :mad: One is a Professor at Aberystwyth University !! Another is a Consultant Psychiatrist !!

(Think they work a bit harder than teachers !!) :rolleyes:

[emily1982]

What a ridicoulous statement Emily.
So, we should all not comment on MP's as we are not MP's or terrorism unless we are terrorists??
Can you not comment on racism unless you are a rascist?
Is this the way you teach debate at school?

Well, I am a parent of a school child cureently and a Council tax payer, plus a high income tax payer, I have been a school govenor. Your actions effect my life, so yes I beleive I have the right to comment.

Yes but Obi you are commenting on peoples jobs, not the decisions those people are making. If a terriost blows something up, that is a right and wrong. But you no jack about the teaching profession which is completley obvious nor have you ever seen my contract for one. So before you starting singing your song about schools holidays learn the facts. Do i go judging postman/fireman when they go on strike...no...because i know nothing about their job!

I do not teach the children to debate i teach them to listen to the facts and know the whole truth before they judge. I agree everyone should have their own opinion, but im explaining that life without school holidays wouldn't work, the children are exhausted at school they need a break!

[Claire L]

I am still surprised by some of the comments here. Holidays, expecially abroad are still a luxury, they are not essential, and yes they are very nice. But if you have children you know that sometimes you may have to make sacrifices ie going at busier/more expensive times of the year, but in the majority of cases people choose to have children, they don't just appear! After all it is only for on average about 14 years that most people have to 'alter' their holiday plans around school holidays.

Claire ;)

[scottishsue]

Yes but Obi you are commenting on peoples jobs, not the decisions those people are making. If a terriost blows something up, that is a right and wrong. But you no jack about the teaching profession which is completley obvious nor have you ever seen my contract for one. So before you starting singing your song about schools holidays learn the facts. Do i go judging postman/fireman when they go on strike...no...because i know nothing about their job!

This is a very touchy subject for me, because I have HUGE issues with the amount of holidays teachers get, compared to the rest of the UK workforce.
And I have friends who are teachers too, and they actually agree with me.
They get bored with the amount of days off that they get !

We back onto a school where we live - and the first cars do not arrive at the school until 10 minutes before it starts at 9 a.m. and they are gone within 10minutes of the school closing.

Why should the rest of us get 25 days a year, when they get something like 60 ?

[saratogagirl]

Just out of interest, but something my husband mentioned might be of interest. What would happen if everything shut down like the schools !!

Schools close for 6 weeks in the summer.... 2 at Easter, 2 at Christmas and 2 in October. So should the Armed Forces, Police, Ambulance Services, Pilots, Gas and Oil Industry all shut down at the same time ??

We'd be in a sorry state if they did !!

If teachers worked the same hours as everyone else we would be far better off.

I have friends who like Obi, work long hours, and I admire these people.
They work hard to get where they are.

(BTW no-one is fighting, we are merely having a discussion, even if it is a somewhat heated one).

Grow up !!


Time for me to bow out gracefully I think ....

[PoppyAnna]

Oh dear, I've just logged in for the first time since Friday night, can't believe this thread is into the eighties......after a quick glance looks like there is some anger too....oh no what have I done....

[Frances999]

....oh no what have I done....
It certainly isn't your fault. :)

[DisneyJo]

Hey I thought we were all nice here, as my Nan used to say if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all!

[angel659]

This is a very touchy subject for me, because I have HUGE issues with the amount of holidays teachers get, compared to the rest of the UK workforce.
And I have friends who are teachers too, and they actually agree with me.
They get bored with the amount of days off that they get !

We back onto a school where we live - and the first cars do not arrive at the school until 10 minutes before it starts at 9 a.m. and they are gone within 10minutes of the school closing.

Why should the rest of us get 25 days a year, when they get something like 60 ?

Well if you feel that strongley about it then why dont you simply change your career and become a teacher. Having said that the simple mindness of this post might prove that you would not make a good teacher.

Comparing the work forces and hospitals is not an intelligent debate. I work in the hospital and how you can compare is just silly. What you want us to say everyone "Dont have any cardiac arrests until the hospital opens again, because there are small minded people out there who are making a fuss about how many days off they are entitled to.

On another note. Count yourself lucky. Americans have something like two weeks!

As for grown up. Perhaps you should look into that phrase first before saying such a foolish statement in the first place.

This thread should be closed, due to the fact this has got nasty and way off the issue at hand.

There is healthy and debate and plan nasty. I do not go on this board to have people snipe at each other. This needs to stop!

[mark&sue]

Claire is right. I won't be complaining in three years as I will be able to get anytime off work I like (but not Christmas) and I am counting the days until Kirsty leaves school. I am far too selfish and like my holidays too much to choose to have another child!

As previously said for me it is the fact that where I work we all want the same time off work. so even if I could not afford to have "luxury" holidays I still would not be able to spend time with my child even if we were to stay at home.

I really do not blame teachers, but the system. It also is the luck of the draw who works in my team at work. There are an awful lot of parents that work for the council and we all seem to want the exact time off whether we go for expensive holidays or just to go to the local park. Luckily I have loads of time off but just can't take it when I want to. Perhaps I should start a ticker for when Kirsty leaves school. In fact I think it is two years 11 months now.


Susan

[angel659]

Oh dear, I've just logged in for the first time since Friday night, can't believe this thread is into the eighties......after a quick glance looks like there is some anger too....oh no what have I done....


Its not your fault at all. I am now getting angry at this thread because of the small minded people on here. I think this should be closed.

We are not here to compare people or judge. Praise people because they want an early heart attack by over working is beyond me. How you can admire workaholics is beyond me. I know I would prefer to be living my life and looking after my health.

Again its not your fault.

Can we please close this thread!

[wils]

...oh no what have I done....

:hug: You just shared your frustration with some friends.

I think we're miles away from the original point now :confused3

[hildasmuriel]

We back onto a school where we live - and the first cars do not arrive at the school until 10 minutes before it starts at 9 a.m. and they are gone within 10minutes of the school closing.


I'm moving to where you live!:rotfl: :rotfl:
I have NEVER been the first to arrive at our school and it's become a bit of a challenge to see if I can be (sad, I know - I'm not even a teacher, just support staff - I don't get paid until 8.55am). I have been there at 7.10 am, but still there were 2 members of staff there before me. By 8 o'clock each morning people are having to double park ( a whole other issue about the school doubling in size but the car park staying the same!).
I don't usually stay much past 4.30 (bear in mind I am only paid until 3.10 before you call me lazy ;) ) but there are always at least a quarter of the staff still there.
I live near the school and always glance in as I drive by - the Head must almost live there - Bank Holidays, Sundays, you name it she's there.
We have one teacher who complains every year because the caretaker won't open on Christmas Day. She says as she is not a Christian she should have the right to work on Christmas Day. It hasn't worked yet - the caretaker has the right to the day off.:)

Like all jobs though, some work harder than others - there are some people who don't arrive until 10 minutes before they are due to start but they are definitely in a minority in our school.

[wils]

There is not a mod online at the mo but I've Pm'd Kaylee.

Meanwhile see you all on another happier thread :grouphug:

[angel659]

Thanks Jo. Was going to pm, but thought I would post on the thread instead.

[mark&sue]

I can't remember a thread about school holidays etc which has not been closed.

I think even the US boards have the same problem. Wow I think it is even more of a touchy subject than religion or politics!

Hope no one takes any of the posts to heart.

I would never want to argue with anyone on here.

Come over to the ask me anything Mark&sue thread. I am missing you all.


Susan

[emily1982]

This is a very touchy subject for me, because I have HUGE issues with the amount of holidays teachers get, compared to the rest of the UK workforce.
And I have friends who are teachers too, and they actually agree with me.
They get bored with the amount of days off that they get !

We back onto a school where we live - and the first cars do not arrive at the school until 10 minutes before it starts at 9 a.m. and they are gone within 10minutes of the school closing.

Why should the rest of us get 25 days a year, when they get something like 60 ?

Okay, so you want to completley wear your children out??

When would the teachers take their holidays as we're not allowed time off?

As ive said before a school isn't a babysitting service.

[Gillsfan]

Just out of interest, but something my husband mentioned might be of interest. What would happen if everything shut down like the schools !!

Schools close for 6 weeks in the summer.... 2 at Easter, 2 at Christmas and 2 in October. So should the Armed Forces, Police, Ambulance Services, Pilots, Gas and Oil Industry all shut down at the same time ??

We'd be in a sorry state if they did !!

If teachers worked the same hours as everyone else we would be far better off.

I have friends who like Obi, work long hours, and I admire these people.
They work hard to get where they are.

(BTW no-one is fighting, we are merely having a discussion, even if it is a somewhat heated one).

Grow up !!

How can you compare 24hr 365day industries to a school? Children need a break as well as the teachers, thats the main reason why they close.

Also, dont get me wrong, I respect anyones decision to work hard to get where they are, but I dont see why you would admire a person for working long hours? Surely, any of us can choose to work longer and become more succesfull?

I for one am quite happy in my 9-5 mon to fri average wage job because I get to spend more time with my kids and enjoy them growing up. Its all about personal choice.

Lastly, just because someone has a degree or works in a field that requires years of study, it doesnt mean the rest of us dont work hard (Not including myself in that one, *** I dont work hard. :yay: well not too hard anyway)

[PoppyAnna]

Wow what a debate :sad2:

First, I think this thread has gone off on a tangent from the OP. Who was merely looking for support and this thread has gone from an innocent thread to judging people. :sad2:

:thumbsup2

This is as far as I got and it's post number 62 out of 90 odd - I will not be reading any further.
I am fairly new to the DIS in comparison to most of the posters in this thread and I wasn't aware of previous threads on this subject and how they end up - can I remind every body of the subject - "What does everybody do when it comes to taking holidays, do you take your children out of school in term time?"

My eldest daughter is about to start school, in May we came back from the best holiday we've ever had with our family (yes, I love going on holiday with my children :thumbsup2 ) I was disappointed to hear from my DD4's Headmistress (whom I already respect, no end) that no in term holiday would be granted by her as the local EA have "clamped down" on her previously more flexible allowances.
I was mearly (sp?) looking for support and knowledge from others who were not so new to this business. I know lots of DISers are parents and I thought I would get an insight into how it affects your children and how you work it into your home/work life as well as your budget. I thought that was what the DIS was all about :confused3
I wasn't asking for it to turn into a "teacher bashing/compared to how hard I work in my job" debate.
I don't yet have any first hand experience of teacher training days, parents evenings and the days when they allow pupils spend time watching DVD's. As a SAHM these occurences will not affect me in they way they affect full time working parents.

One point to Obi, you may work from 0530 - 2300 but you're on here a lot, I doubt teachers get time to surf in their work hours - whatever you think they are. ;)
Flame suit buckled up!

Many thanks SSue for the heads up - ;)

[jonkatony]

I for one am quite happy in my 9-5 mon to fri average wage job because I get to spend more time with my kids and enjoy them growing up. Its all about personal choice.,
Gillsfan well said, I am a professional and I work in an industry that allows a reasonable flexibility in working hours, some work 12-14 hours a day. I see my kids in the morning and evening and feel very lucky to be able to do so. I do not judge people who work long hours, but nor should they judge me.