New Room Style and Occupancy Limits

[Windjammer]

There has been much discussion about how a family of 5 or 6 exceeds the occupancy limits of a studio or one bedroom unit.

Assuming fire code regulations could be satisfied, and it is not precluded by the offering statement, how do you all feel about Disney offering in one of its new DVC resorts a one bedroom unit with two queen or full beds in the master suite instead of the king bed. This would increase the occupancy limit to six.

In exchange for the increased occupancy, resulting in extra wear and tear, use of more hot water and towels, etc., the unit could be rented for slightly more points than a standard one bedroom, but less than a two bedroom.

Disney would be increasing its revenue by getting more points for the one bedroom unit, and those with families of 5 or 6, or families of 4 or less who want to bring a guest or two, who do not need or want the extra space of the two bedroom, would save some points (and presumably stay longer, spending more money.

This would provide a reasonable alternative and I believe would reduce the number of guests who presently choose to exceed the occupancy limit.

I am not sure if this is feasible, but am interested in the opinions of DVC's members as to whether such a change would be welcomed. What would the advantages and disadvantages of such a change be?

[sgtpet]

I vehemently oppose your thought process taken on this thread. If you feel that a new DVC program be developed to handle your wants then fine. But in no way do I think DVC should change the limits for a one bedroom by doing as you suggest.

[Windjammer]

sgtpet:

Why the vehemence? What do you perceive to be the downside?

[patsal]

Perhaps they could design a new room layout as you suggest at another different location. Maybe there are more people who would want to buy in and cram people all in one room.
My thought was that I would have room to spread out and relax while keeping a control on my vacation costs. No way do I want to share the master suite with my kids or anyone other than my DH. I like the layout as it is.
IMHO you are already getting a good value for your investment and if one wants to cram a ton of people into a single room and still have a fridge perhaps one might invest in an RV.;)

[Chuck S]

I'd rather see a one bedroom with 2 comfortable single daybeds instead of a fold-out sofa and loveseat. It wouldn't increase the occupancy, but whoever sleeps on them would have a better back :)

[Windjammer]

Patsal:

The densitywould be nodifferent than having 8 people in a two bedroom, which is clearly allowed and which I suppose people do. Just assume there are 4 in the bedroom and 2 in the living room.

While I understand that you would not want to do this there may be some who would. I am not suggesting that all one bedroom units allow this. Most one bedroom units would still have the king suite, and you, of course would still have the option of staying in a such a room and paying the same amount of points you do now.

[DaveH]

I am surprised at the reaction so far.:eek: I understood that the thought was for a new resort to have a limited number of 1 bedroom with maybe 2 beds in the master bedroom beside the pull out in the other room.

I am open to suggestions to maybe help some of the younger families that are 5 folks and the kids are younger. If they choose to have kids in their bedroom thats ok. Another way they may do it is give the kids the bedroom and they take the pull out. If I had DVC when my sons were younger I would have considered it on a family vacation.

As an empty nester that is not a problem for us, but I can see a possible like/need by some members. I think a limited number of these as a small part of a DVC resort I see no prblem. That way the rest of us can have a king bed and put the kids or whoever on the pull out. I know how many folks in a room can get folks going here on the boards. It sounds like something to think about at least. JMHO.:)

[patsal]

After putting a little more thought into it, I wouldn't mind seeing the occupancy limits stay the same and the sleeping layout change a bit. We are only a family of four, but we have a DS(10)and a DD(6). The bickering that goes on at bedtime can be really out of control ("He's kicking", "she's hogging the bed", etc.). Studios would be just as comfy with two bunk beds in place of the sofa bed, and I like the two daybed idea for the 1BR.

[Chuck S]

Patsal,

Try a studio at OKW sometime, they have 2 queens instead of a queen & sofabed. The kids would still be together, but they'd be more comfortable. A limited number of studios with bunk beds might work, too.

[Windjammer]

Chuck S and Patsal:

The studio plus at BWV also solves part of that problem. The kids can be put in different beds. But it doesn't make the fold out sofa any more comfortable.

[patsal]

Windjammer,
I guess I didn't think about the 8 people in a two bedroom issue/ 6 people in a 1BR. I suppose that makes sense with the many younger families with three plus children.
Thanks, also to all with differnt resort layouts... the info should help me when booking my next trip!!:smooth:

[Chuck S]

It's true that the studio plus solves the sleeping arrangement problem for some kids. However, sometimes we have 4 adults, and while we'd like the room of a 1bdrm at OKW we usually get a studio because of the 2 queens instead of the fold out. Single daybeads would solve that problem.

Upon rethinking, I do see a problem with bunk beds...falls, injuries and lawsuits. :rolleyes:

[patsal]

They have bunkbeds in some of the WL rooms. However, I'm certain not everyone would want that arrangement either.

[Terry S]

Just my 2 cents but I always thought it would be nice if you could do a 1 bedroom lock off in either direction. What I mean is if they had a way to lock off the room with the king bed instead of the room with the queen/sofa or two queen beds. My only reason for this is while my kids are young it would be nice to have them in the same room with us and I would still want the kitchen and living room for obvious reasons but also we could put the kids to bed and still be in the living room until we want to go to bed. We will be getting a 2 bedroom when they get older, but in the mean time it would be nice to have a room with 2 queen beds as well as the kitchen/living room.

Also I imagine if they were able to do a lock off in either direction the king room could be used as a studio (provided they added a fridge and microwave in there). I have heard some people say that they would like a studio with a king bed.

I know some people won't like this idea either and it won't happen anyway, but it is just an idea!

[PamOKW]

It doesn't hurt to dream. ;)

I think the reality is that DVC will keep it as simple and uniform as possible. Too many variables is too difficult to manage....they already learned not to go to a two-view system in the future.

[Granny]

windjammer....

Interesting concept.

I'm surprised you got flamed right out of the box. I just thought you were throwing a concept out there for opinions. You expressly said for new DVC resorts under consideration, so it would not affect any existing resorts.

I have often felt for people in the situation with 3 children. Aside from the studio plus, these folks have to go to a 2BR....big jump in points from a 1BR. I only have two kids so I'm okay, but I can see others viewpoints as well.

An "in between" size accommodation to sleep 6 is an interesting concept, but I agree with PamOKW that it would probably complicate things. DVD has a pretty standard system now and I don't see them tinkering with it.

Thanks for posting the thread to at least get some discussion on it.

[Dean]

I have several thoughts on these matters. First, since the studio plus is no longer guaranteed, there's no way to legally take more than four people for a studio at BW unless there is a fifth under 3. If I recall Windjammer's position, it is that you could put 6 in the studio plus if one was under 3 and my thinking is 5 max regardless. Yes I know the rules are not well enforced.

DVC does not want to confuse the issue by having an odd resort. While the layout is somewhat different between some of the resorts, the sleeping capacity is all the same (again studio plus isnt' guaranteed). It would not make sense for DVC to change things up and have something else to worry about when reserving rooms, it would be confusing for the members and for MS. While there are sleep 6 1 BR units and sleep 6, 8 or 10 2 BR units; the DVC arrangement is the norm. Most studios sleep 4 though they may only exchange for 2 in many cases.

There are locations that have double lockoff's, 3 BR where you can lock off 2 studios, 2 BR with 2 fullkitchens, units with lofts and even four BR units with 2 full kitchens that can be locked off. It doesn't make sense to come up with something odd unless it makes more money for the developer and/or makes the buyers or HOA life much easier. There's a difference in being different vs being innocative. Did you know it actually costs more money to replace the pull out sofas than it would to replace the bedding even when comparing a full size pull out to a queen bed, almost twice as much if you go with a top quality mechanism.

Realize that a 1 BR with 2 baths sleep 6 will not be particularly cheaper than a 2 BR unit and therefore there would be no real savings. The only way to generate savings would be smaller units with less amenities and/or less costly furnishings.

[dvc_bwv]

I see no problem with 8 in a 2 BR. I just returned from an "all girls" trip where we had 8 in a 2 BR at OKW and there were no problems at all....which, when you think about 8 women sharing 2 bathrooms. is surprising!

[Tigger1]

I would like to see the limits lifted and two beds in the king bedroom, keeping the Jacuzzi. I do part of my time only with my children (no Spouse). We spend very little time in the rooms. Lots of time in the parks. We cook very little also. We do use the washer/dryer and showers.

As my children grow they want there own bed. If they were still small they would likely all sleep in the same room. So I do want a 2 bdrm for us but feel that we should have a choice. Flexability is the main reason I bought. The more members DVC has the more opportunitys members have to stay at different DVC resorts, BWV, VWL, VBC, OKW Vero, HH and soon .......




Tigger

[WebmasterDoc]

I would like to see the limits lifted and two beds in the king bedroom, keeping the Jacuzzi.

Currently, there is not room in the master bedroom for two beds , so extra space will have to come from someplace else in the villa. Since most will still likely want the jacuzzi and washer/dryer and wouldn't want to downsize the bathroom, where will the needed space come from. (Simply making the villa larger is not likely a viable option- even at a new resort.)

Some issues which would need to be addressed with such a room configuration are:

How many of these villas would be built? (If there are too few- guests unable to reserve these are still likely to over occupy the other room types. If there are too many- will they sit empty?)

Should this room type request be guaranteed?

If someone wants a "normal" 1BR or Studio for their party of 2,3,or 4 and all that is available is this type of room- can that member reserve this villa or should it be saved for a larger group?

[Dean]

It is ok to dream about oddly configured rooms but unreasonable to expect DVC to produce them. It won't happen, expect the standard room confirgurations. Hopefully the units will be a little larger more like OKW.

[eva]

I would have two main concerns with this. If if they made 1-bedrooms with both a King and 2 Queens and if they were the same points they might not be able to guarantee which you get, just like the studio plus at BWV. Also, if they made half of the 1-bedrooms at the next resort with 2 queens then it would make it twice has difficult to get a 1-bedroom with a King. There is no way that I want 2 beds in the master suite. That is why we bought DVC so we could have a great master suite and our two girls would get their own beds in a 2-bedroom. What's next? A 2-bedroom that sleeps 10?

[PinMan]

i agree with pam, they will keep it simple, so there will be no changes. :pinkbounc :pinkbounc :pinkbounc

[Tigger1]

Well, I will keep the Jacuzzi.

Eva is right about the limited number of rooms and not being able to get exactly what we want . To many choices can be bad too.
The Studio Plus rooms may not be as large as a reg room at OKW. Seems to small to me.

Actually the point difference is not much different for a 2-bedroom than a one bedroom. Stay one less day or buy more points and have extra room. Then when the kids grow up stay in the one-bedroom.


Tigger

[timC]

Why does this issue keep coming up? BECAUSE IT'S A PROBLEM! DVC currently does not offer a competative solution for the average family of 5 or 6.

When DVC was introduced 10 years ago, it was a niche product, and as such, I could see why they'd want to keep keep it simple, and focus on a specific customer profile.

But clearly the times are changing... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only construction that's going on at WDW is DVC. Stop the Pop Century project, tear down the Disney Institute, close up POR. DVC is overtaking the traditional Disney resort and is becoming a mainstream alternative for Disney vacationers.

With that, I think disney should and will expand the variety of DVC offerings, and provide more flexibility, thereby attracting a larger band of customers.

We're a family of 4 and we nicely fit into the DVC square box. I dread the day when one of my DSs asks if they can bring a friend along...

[Chuck S]

But what points would you charge for these non-traditional rooms? A two bedroom is already less points than renting a 1 Bdrm and a Studio separately. If they develop a room for 6 people, should renting 2 be more points than a Grand Villa? Personally, since DI looks like it will be a small development, I think it would be a good place to experiment with different bed configurations (bunk beds, daybeds, etc.) but stay with the traditional room limitations to allow easy trading to other DVC resorts for those that purchase there.

Otherwise the discussion will be "Well, I can put 5 or 6 in a 1 bedroom at DI, why can't I do it at OKW?" What if the 6 person rooms were all assigned, should they cram 6 into a 4 person room?

[Richyams]

DVC currently does not offer a competative solution for the average family of 5 or 6.

Yes they do, it's called a two bedroom unit.

The one time we went with one of my daughter's friends for a few days, we only had four, but how are you going to sleep four comfortably in a one bedroom or studio? You can't. of course we got the two bedroom.

I really think that it is a case of people being to cheap to secure the proper size unit for their party.

[Cinderelli]

We were there in Sept and reserved a two bedroom and a studio for 11 of us. Just our family of 5 stayed the final night in the two bedroom. My children are young. 7, 6 and 4. They were all too scared to stay waaaaay over in the second bedroom by themselves. My entire family (of 5) ended up sleeping in the 2nd bedroom (with the 2 queens) and the master suite went completely empty.

Although it's easy to say we need a two bedroom. The truth is, we just wouldn't use it until the kids are much older.

It felt like such a waste of points to let the master suite go empty. There are many families of 5 in this same situation. I think it would be a great idea for Disney to experiment with some different room configurations at a new resort.

[timC]

Rich....I agree that for a party of 5, a 2BR is the only alternative... In fact, that's the point. There ARE not alternatives.

Why should someone have to pay to double their room capacity, from 4 to 8, simply to add 1 person. I'm not cheap, and infact have had to do exactly that on occasion. But I believe I'm buying more capacity than I need.

It's clear to me that Disney is changing their resort strategy at WDW, to focus more on their DVC business. This is very exciting. And because of this expansion, I think the composition of the member base has evolved to become more mainstream...a middle tier who is more cost conscious. At the very least, there will be a lot more family's of 5 than ever before, for Disney to cater to.

[Chuck S]

But goodness, I usually 'pay' for double my needed capacity when just Mom & I go, shouldn't we get the studio or 1 bdrm (boy, I hate that sofa bed) for half-price? After all, we're only two in a 4 person room. And a couple of times I've had 1 person in a studio...that means I paid for 4 times the capacity I needed, I should have gotten a 75% discount, huh? When you're kids are older you can get two studios, depending on their personal responsibily of course.

I know it is rare, but I agree with Rich.

[Shadeaux]

Originally posted by Cinderelli
Just our family of 5 stayed the final night in the two bedroom. My children are young. 7, 6 and 4. They were all too scared to stay waaaaay over in the second bedroom by themselves. My entire family (of 5) ended up sleeping in the 2nd bedroom (with the 2 queens) and the master suite went completely empty.



Where were you staying? I don't recall any of the DVC second bedrooms being "waaaaay over" from the rest of the unit. I'm confused. Do your three children sleep in your room at home?

[Richyams]

Welcome to the dark side......

[Terry S]

Shadeaux.... That was not a very kind statement you made. Do you have any childeren? I agree with Cinderlli! The whole point is you are NOT at home. When a young child wakes up in the middle of the night in a strange place I am sure that the 2nd bedroom is waaaaaay over there from the master bedroom as far as they are concerned.

[Shadeaux]

Terry, yes I do have one 13 yr. old daughter. Her room is at the opposite end of the house from ours. She's slept alone since she was 2 weeks old. When we travel, we plan ahead & bring nightlights; when she was younger, a baby monitor.

I've stayed in a 2br at OKW, & I still don't understand the waaaaaay over comment. I guess my idea of distance is different from everyone else's. I wasn't trying to be unkind, just stating my opinion which on the DIS, doesn't seem to be allowed unless it goes with the majority. As you can see, I've been a member for quite sometime, but don't post very often for that very reason.

[Terry S]

Shadeaux.... I guess I didn't see the question "Do your three children sleep in your room at home?" as an opinion. My 2 childern ages 4 and 5 also sleep in their own rooms on the other side of the house from us, but I can see where in a strange place it would be different. I will keep the night light idea in mind though!

[Werner Weiss]

We always get a 2BR for the four of us. Two bedrooms, two bathrooms -- how comfortable and convenient! With nobody skeeping on the sofa, the living room is really a living room.

Th 2BR layout is also excellent for a family of five or six. I can't imagine a family of five or six wanting to share a single bathroom. (How long would it take for everyone to shower and take care other things one does in a bathroom each morning?)

Bottom line, a 2BR is DVC's solution for a family of 4, 5, or 6 -- and it will sleep up to 8, but that wouldn't be vey pleasant.

[timC]

When you're kids are older you can get two studios There's another example of a poor solution for a family of 5, looking for a decent DVC room configuration at a reasonable rate.

The room capacity issue is one of the most argued questions on these boards? It's obviously a problem, and as the member base expands, the noise will get louder.

The WDW resort strategy is changing folks, and DVC is in the cross-hairs. They are going to have to offer a broader range of alternatives... room rates, room sizes, etc, to address the much expanded base of members.

[CarolAnnC]

The Webmasters of the DIS have made the decision previously to not allow occupancy issues to be debated and/or argued on this board. Since this thread has become one, I shall direct those of you who wish to continue this conversation over to our Debate Board where there is an ongoing debate on the issue.

click here for Debate on Occupancy (http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140007)