Teens face crackdown at Downtown Disney

[crazy4wdw]

Walt Disney World is stepping up efforts to roust unwanted teens and young adults from its Downtown Disney complex.

Henry Pierson Curtis and Scott Powers | Sentinel Staff Writers
June 22, 2007

The company's security guards and off-duty Orange County deputy sheriffs boosted their presence last weekend at the popular shopping and entertainment area, issuing as many trespass warnings in two days as they had the previous 51/2 months.

Fifty teens and young adults were banned from Disney property forever. If they return, they can be arrested.

The operation, which adds 11 off-duty deputy sheriffs to the normal four-member team at Downtown Disney for four weekends, started a week after two Connecticut tourists reported they were abducted from the parking lot and later robbed.

Disney and sheriff's officials said the crackdown stemmed from broader concerns, not one incident.

"A ganglike presence was unfortunately identified at Downtown Disney. And that is not going to be tolerated," Disney World spokeswoman Jacquee Polak said Thursday. "So additional deputies were proactively assigned to patrol the area and that's going to go on as long as is needed."

Sheriff's Capt. Ted Brown, who supervises patrols at Disney, said the heightened enforcement had been planned weeks ago in response to increasing numbers of problem teens Disney and deputies had noticed starting late last year.

"A lot of them were described as 'wannabe gangbangers.' " he said. "And some of them were flat-out harassing and bothering other guests."

Under the current push, Disney security officers survey the crowds and question guests they suspect of being a problem. Deputies are asked to issue warnings if the guests refuse to answer, argue and refuse to leave, according to the Sheriff's Office.

Targeting minorities?

Out of the 50 warnings issued last weekend, the Sheriff's Office was able to find only 40 of the reports. Warnings were issued to 20 young Hispanic males, 19 young black males and one young black female.

None came from Orange County, the location of Downtown Disney. Eleven were from Osceola County, 11 from Lake County, 11 from Polk County, five from Georgia and one each from Arizona, Texas and an unreported location.

One of the teens told never to come back asked why no whites were among those warned about trespassing.

"A whole bunch of white boys walked by yelling and stuff, and they didn't do nothing to them," said Michael Washington, 16, of Polk City.

Washington said that he, his brother and three cousins drove to Downtown Disney on Friday night to go to the movies. They met two young black men and a woman in the parking lot who said "they were arresting all black folks."

He said Disney security officers followed them after they visited a store. One of his cousins cursed the guards after being stopped, Washington said.

Asked whether he thought race played a role in why they were ejected, the teen said, "I don't know. I don't know, sir. They came straight at the black crowd."

Polak would not comment on the racial breakdown of those teens and young men who were rousted. She also would not comment on what guidelines Disney security follows in deciding who should get a trespass warning.

"Our priority, and that of law enforcement, is to maintain a safe experience," Polak said. A review of trespass warnings issued last year at Disney showed more diversity. Out of 296 total trespass warnings at Downtown Disney in 2006, 29 went to blacks and 42 went to Hispanics, according to sheriff's records.

The rest -- 225 -- went to whites, Asians and others.

Teens loitering in the Downtown Disney area first became a problem in early 2005 after Disney stopped charging an entry fee to the Pleasure Island nightclub complex, Brown said.

Once the turnstiles were removed, teens began congregating at two outdoor plazas between the nightclubs. Large screens that displayed rap, hip-hop and other music videos provided free entertainment.

"It quickly became an area for these kids to go, and for whatever reasons undesirable elements started congregating there, too," Brown said.

In January 2006, Disney removed the projection screens and outdoor music to "get rid of the street-party atmosphere," he said.

An additional concern involved even younger guests.

"And there was an even younger group of kids who were getting dropped off by their parents like it was the mall or someplace to hang out," Brown said. "You know, Disney does not want to be a baby-sitting service."

No one has been arrested in the June 10 abduction and robbery reported by Justin Stetzer and Jessica DellaCamera of North Branford, Conn. But even before the first beefed-up detail began, sheriff's detectives were raising doubts about parts of their story.

Inconsistencies included their claim to have been abducted at gunpoint in a lighted parking lot just six rows from an observation tower staffed by a Disney security guard, according to a report released this week.

"Both victims then became even more irate and began cussing and stating that they never would cooperate any more," a detective wrote about asking Stetzer and DellaCamera to take a lie-detector test.

The Sheriff's Office has stopped pursuing the case.

[mjstaceyuofm]

Well that's quite an article. I've never noticed the gangstas before because I haven't been to PI in ages. Literally it's been 11 years. If it has become that bad I'm glad they're cracking down. Of course, I'd be even happier if they actually had a strategy for the whole DD, PI, WS area as opposed to the quick "throw up some nightclubs to compete with Church Street Station" mentality that forged PI in the first place.

[Tink's Tormentor]

Let me sing the happy song:

HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY
HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY :banana: :dancer:

Get them out of Downtown Disney, Pleasure Island and West Side... and I will be one happy camper...

[ChrisFL]

I bet its not easy to enforce unless they actually witness bad behavior. A lot of people will dress up like "gangstas" and walk a certain way, etc. but that doesnt mean they're there to cause trouble either.

I hope they are able to improve things though!

[WebmasterCricket]

What, no more tazings?

[Lewisc]

Disney should consider brining back the admission charge. Also admit any guest who has a park pass; theme park, water park or DQ that was used the same day. Unless there is a computer issue basically allow any ticket hopping rights to the PI area.

[Jason71]

Disney should consider brining back the admission charge.

While I totally agree with bringing back the admission fee/tunstiles for several reasons, there is no indication in this article how many of the 50 warnings were actually issued in PI. The activities described by two of the groups--going to the movies and leaving a store--suggest that the deputies may have been concentrating on West Side more. Really, that seems typical. The multiplexes at Universal, Pointe Orlando (when it was open) and Festival Bay always seem to attract their fair share of "wannabe gangbangers" as well.

I have a feeling the fact that only blacks and Latinos were cited is going to raise a firestorm--stay tuned.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

The whole idea of opening the island was to facilitate shoppers going from West Side to Marketplace and vice versa. By getting rid of the stages and moving the bridge to West Side it created a "line-of-sight" to hopefully get people to visit both sides. I'm doubtful that it's been very successful. In fact, the few stores that existed on PI were closed and the building was renovated to house new stores, but that project was completed months ago and nothing has opened. A Harley store replaced Changing Attitudes and that's basically the only store open on PI (plus the clubs). The only reason I've heard why new stores never opened is because of problems with "permits". But that's a bogus reason IMO because Lake Buena Vista is it's own city so there can't be permit problems. The Mouse can do whatever he wants in his own town. So my thinking is that they may close off the island again which would change the type of stores that would fit an adult-only (again) venue. We'll see.

BobK/Orlando

[ChrisFL]

The whole idea of opening the island was to facilitate shoppers going from West Side to Marketplace and vice versa. By getting rid of the stages and moving the bridge to West Side it created a "line-of-sight" to hopefully get people to visit both sides. I'm doubtful that it's been very successful. In fact, the few stores that existed on PI were closed and the building was renovated to house new stores, but that project was completed months ago and nothing has opened. A Harley store replaced Changing Attitudes and that's basically the only store open on PI (plus the clubs). The only reason I've heard why new stores never opened is because of problems with "permits". But that's a bogus reason IMO because Lake Buena Vista is it's own city so there can't be permit problems. The Mouse can do whatever he wants in his own town. So my thinking is that they may close off the island again which would change the type of stores that would fit an adult-only (again) venue. We'll see.

BobK/Orlando

well thats the unfortunate result of how everything was built...with PI now splitting 2 big shopping areas. I remember it being a pain going completely around PI when they had it closed off for a while.

But I dont think there's as many shoppers in the prime nighttime hours that PI is open, so a separate admission at that time wouldn't be a bad idea.

[Uncleromulus]

Didn't I read on an earlier thread that DD was already "swarming" with police and security??
Anyway, we never go anywhere near the place except once in a great while for an early dinner. Once that's over--we leave the area.

[TheRustyScupper]

1) Glorioski!

2) I have written SEVERAL posts about the teens since the admission change.
3) My emails to WDW "brass" never got a response.
4) Mrs Rusty said the only place in WDW she felt unsafe was at PI.
5) We said we WOULD NOT go back until it was changed.
6) Recent crimes, plus the build-up of teens has borne this out.

7) It is so nice to see WDW taking action.
8) Thanks! (finally)

[TheRustyScupper]

What, no more tazings?

1) Alas.
2) All entertainment must change eventually.

[mitros]

What, no more tazings?

Taze 'em all, and let the judge sort 'em out................

[WolfpackFan]

We just got back from WDW and I have to say I didn't really like what I saw at DTD at night at all. I really applaud Disney for stepping up security. I know if I had teens with me, I would not let them go to DTD at night by themselves. We saw one instance where deputies were surrounding a young man, who was only wearing shorts. He looked totally wasted. I didn't pay all the money we did and travel all that distance for me and my family to see that kind of mess. They either need to clean it up or shut the entire complex down IMO.

[annie1995]

I would think admission charge or free to resort guests would be a good thing. Just my opinion though. I'm glad they are cracking down on it. Loud roudy teenagers is so not Disney like.

[YoHo]

Didn't I read on an earlier thread that DD was already "swarming" with police and security??
Anyway, we never go anywhere near the place except once in a great while for an early dinner. Once that's over--we leave the area.


Man, I was building up my incredulity in order to turn this into an epic post.

Crawling with security my aunt fanny. I guess we can go back to that thread and discuss it now with facts.

[Jason71]

Crawling with security my aunt fanny. I guess we can go back to that thread and discuss it now with facts.

PI has been swarming with security for a while now--at least I consider a dozen or more cops plus security guards in a six-acre area "swarming". They just didn't go to the trouble of writing out formal trespass warnings, apparently, and, of course, WDW's PR department didn't feel the need to put out press releases when they did.

New update in the Sentinel: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/community/news/lakebuenavista/orl-mdizfollow2707jun27,0,4324652.story?coll=orl_tab01 _layout

Apparently four of the "gangbanger" element were FSU prospects--one is the son of a civil rights attorney, another is the son of a manager at the Poly.

This is also the first formal acknowledgment I've seen from WDW that PI is 21and up only after 11:00 p.m. It's been the de facto policy for months now, but I had never seen it in writing. Which will probably reignite the whole "do kids belong in the Adventurer's Club?" debate, as well.

[andromedaslove]

Disney accused of profiling black teens (http://http://www.orlandosentinel.com/community/news/lakebuenavista/orl-mdizfollow2707jun27,0,4324652.story?coll=orl_tab01 _layout)

I originally saw this article from one of my husbands football discussion boards. What do you guys think?!

Dana

[ChrisFL]

link not working

[crazy4wdw]

Disney accused of profiling black teens

4 FSU prospects ejected for loitering, refusing to leave, parks spokeswoman counters

Florida State University football prospects Vincent Williams, Avis Commack, Nigel Carr and Nickolas Moody were ejected from Walt Disney World last weekend.

Henry Pierson Curtis and Scott Powers | Sentinel Staff Writers
June 27, 2007

Walt Disney World ejected four of Florida State University's top football prospects from Downtown Disney last weekend under its anti-gang, no-loitering policy.

The four, including the son of a Disney manager and the son of a Philadelphia civil-rights lawyer, were banned for life from Disney World property late Friday.

A Disney spokeswoman said the youths were expelled because they had been loitering for an extended period and refused to leave when Disney security told them to.

"I keep thinking to myself, 'This is crazy,' " said Mark Nugent, stepfather of Vincent Williams, football star at Ridge Community High School in Polk County. "Once they realized they weren't gangbangers, why didn't they let them go? They took their pictures. They fingerprinted them. And treated them like common criminals."

Because of concerns about a rise in ganglike activity at Downtown Disney lately, loitering or "any other inappropriate behavior" by groups of youths is not going to be tolerated, spokeswoman Jacquee Polak said Tuesday.

"This group was seen loitering for an extended period of time," she said. "When asked, sometime after 11:30, they produced a movie ticket for a film that had already started sometime earlier. Security asked them to go to the movie or leave, and they failed to cooperate."

Philadelphia attorney Adrian J. Moody, father of one of the players, said he thinks his son was a victim of racial profiling.

"Why else would they follow them for an hour and a half to two hours?" said Moody, whose son, Nickolas Moody, listed on the police report as Nickolas Cannon, plays safety for Roman Catholic High School in Philadelphia. "And how can you trespass someone in Downtown Disney for walking around? I've been there before, and that's why it's there."

48 warnings issued in 2 weekends

Orange County deputy sheriffs have issued at least 48 trespass warnings at Downtown Disney during the past two weekends since the push against loitering began. Records of those cases provided to the Orlando Sentinel show that 45 of the 46 people banned from Disney for life during the past two weekends were blacks or Hispanics.

Three cases involved white teens. Of those, two were banned only from the Virgin Megastore and are free to return anytime to Disney.

Polak said the decision to expel those two guests was made by the store management, not by Disney, so the ban only applied to the store.

Records show the only white teen banned so far from Disney was accused of creating a disturbance outside the Planet Hollywood restaurant by loitering, arguing with Disney guards, swearing at them and refusing to leave the property.

The incident began after five future FSU Seminoles gathered last weekend at Williams' Davenport home for a get-together barbecue.

Each will be a high-school senior in the fall, and all have made oral commitments to sign with Florida State. The get-together was highly publicized on an FSU fans' Web site, Warchant.com, as a way for the recruits to form bonds they hoped would last through their college years.

"We worked out," Nigel Carr, an outside linebacker at Jacksonville First Coast High School, told Warchant.com. "We also went to Disney, Wet 'n Wild and CityWalk. It was just really fun."

In addition to Williams, Moody and Carr, Avis Commack also was issued a trespass warning, according to the Sheriff's Office and interviews. All are 17.

Ranked as one of the top 10 high-school wide receivers in the nation, Commack attends First Coast High School.

The fifth player, Moses McCray, 17, of Hillsborough High School in Tampa, said he left before Disney issued the trespass warnings and was not banned.

After dinner Friday, Williams' mother and stepfather drove the five teens to Downtown Disney so they could look around and enjoy the evening. Williams' mother is a supervisor at Walt Disney World's Polynesian Resort.

The parents' cell phone rang about midnight. It was Vincent, upset and asking them to come as soon as possible to take him and his friends home.

"They're harassing us. They're being nasty to us," Nugent remembered his stepson saying about being approached by more than a dozen Disney security guards and Orange County deputies.

According to sheriff's Cmdr. Larry Krantz, who supervised the off-duty deputies working at Downtown Disney last weekend, Disney security officers said they spoke to the football players several times during the evening.

At one point, the teens tried to enter the Pleasure Island complex of nightclubs after 11 p.m. when entry switches to those 21 and older. They declined to go to the movies as suggested and said they were at Downtown Disney to pick up girls, Krantz said he was told.

From his own observations, he said, the athletes were not aggressive or rude, but he understood that at least one made "kind of smart remarks" to Disney security.

At one point, they asked why no Puerto Rican or white teens were being asked to leave, Krantz said. Then, a white teen and a Hispanic teen were brought in, and all the teens started slapping "high-fives" and joking, he said.

McCray, a 6-foot-2-inch, 268-pound defensive tackle, said the group had been sitting on a bench after leaving Pleasure Island when a number of security guards and deputies approached them. That's when he left, he said.

Friends were 'just chilling,' teen says

Commack said he and his friends were "just chilling together" at Downtown Disney and that they thought they were followed "because we were a group of black kids they assumed were out to make trouble."

Sheriff's spokesman Capt. Mark Strobridge said Tuesday evening that the agency works closely with Walt Disney security to identify and remove anyone causing problems at the theme parks and Downtown Disney.

"The feedback we have received is that many of the guests have been happy with our presence," Strobridge said.

Nugent, Vincent Williams' stepfather, defended the players by saying they are all good kids as well as hardworking, outstanding athletes.

"Is it because they're all over 6 feet tall and black?" asked Nugent, who is white. "I want the trespass warnings dropped so the kids can visit Disney if they want. And an apology would be nice."

Mike Huguenin of the Sentinel staff contributed to this report. Henry Pierson Curtis can be reached at 407-420-5257 or hcurtis@orlandosentinel.com.Scott Powers can be reached at 407-420-5441 or spowers@orlandosentinel.com.

[G8RFAN]

Future Seminoles..... Yep, don't like em already. GUILTY!


:rotfl:

Actually, when I read this earlier today and read that William's mother was a manager at Disney, my first inclination was that she apparently could pull no strings and that was bad. But in hind sight, if these kids really did not do anything wrong and were not disrespectful to security and sheriffs, the fact that they still banned an employee's kid tells me that they deserved what they got. We had similar complaints at the local mall when they decided to crack down on "gang" activity. If kids are polite and respectful, I suspect regardless of race, they will be welcomed. I'm sure Disney does not want to discourage locals from visiting DTD by making them feel they have to buy something.

[thefirebuilds]

thats funny. probably picked the wrong two to toss out.

here is a corrected link:

http://orlandosentinel.com/community/news/lakebuenavista/orl-mdizfollow2707jun27,0,4324652.story?coll=orl_tab01 _layout

all that said, there are plenty of blacks at disney, I dont think they are guilty of profiling, but not being in their shoes i couldnt say. Im happy to see any teens tossed from anywhere, regardless of race they're all a blight on society until at least 23.

[thefirebuilds]

reason enough as far as im concerned:

At one point, the teens tried to enter the Pleasure Island complex of nightclubs after 11 p.m. when entry switches to those 21 and older. They declined to go to the movies as suggested and said they were at Downtown Disney to pick up girls, Krantz said he was told.

[ChrisFL]

banning for life, among others, the son of a civil rights lawyer? Why do I get the distinct impression that we haven't heard the end of this case yet?

[dementia412]

Honestly I think black people are more likely to take being confronted by guards or police poorly because they believe they are being confronted due to their skin color (and some of the time it may be true that was the original reason), and that their reaction tends to cause them getting into more trouble. That was absolutly the case with cars being pulled over in in OH. It was so clear; more white people were pulled over, but they generaly acted cool, calm and collected. The black people pulled over were more likely to get defensive or act guilty (even when they weren't)... so their cars were being checked way more often for drugs, therefore they were arrested more often. The white people with drugs... most of them probably slipped through police hands because they did nothing to get the police suspicous.
Now in this case, the teens were doing something wrong.. they tried to get into the over 21 area, were not at a movie they payed to go see (very odd), and refused to go watch it or leave (like they wanted to get in trouble)..... BUT it does seem very odd that 45 of 46 banned people were black! That is so lopsided there has to be a problem here.... not all gang members are black, so even if all of those people were gang members it should not be that one sided.

[gottaluvdisney]

My friends got removed from Pleasure Island before for dirty dancing. My friend was sucking a man's thumb.

We are all white. It happens. It is private property - if they don't want you there, they will ask you to leave. If you don't leave, that is your fault.

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

banning for life, among others, the son of a civil rights lawyer? Why do I get the distinct impression that we haven't heard the end of this case yet?


Do I smell "set up"!

My son came out of a movie around midnight a couple Saturdays ago with a friend, both under 21. Neither was allowed to cut through PI to get to their cars. They are white. But they didn't mouth off to the guards either.

BobK/Orlando

[Uncleromulus]

"Just chilling"?
Sounds like another way of describing loitering--which is what this group was obviously doing.
Glad to see Disney keeping up the pressure.

[Uncleromulus]

Edited-not relevant where placed in merged thread.

[crazy4wdw]

Disney walks a tightrope with teen crackdown
Scott Powers and Mark Chediak | Sentinel Staff Writers
June 28, 2007

In trying to rid Downtown Disney of loitering teens -- and possible street-gang members -- Walt Disney World is wrestling with a dilemma faced for years by shopping malls, movie theaters and other semi-public places operated by private businesses.

With the help of off-duty Orange County deputy sheriffs, Disney security officers have expelled dozens of youth and banned them from returning to the resort the past two weekends. But as details of the crackdown emerged this week, it appeared that all but one of those banished were black or Hispanic, and some of the teens and their parents have accused Disney of targeting minorities.

Disney officials would not respond publicly to such allegations, and on Wednesday they remained steadfast in their assertion that a crackdown on loitering youth was necessary. When asked if the resort was rethinking its strategy in light of complaints about racial profiling, spokeswoman Jacquee Polak said Disney has been listening to its guests. Still, the crackdown was likely to continue at least for one more weekend, she said.

"Our guests are telling us that they appreciate our efforts. And we have seen a decline in the loitering behavior," she said.Disney also heard Tuesday from some of the families of four black teenagers -- all Florida State University football prospects -- who were expelled from Downtown Disney last weekend. The four included the son of a Disney manager and the son of a Philadelphia civil-rights lawyer.

Some of the family members accused Disney of targeting young black men. Disney said it was simply trying to remove loitering youth.

"You can wait for things to happen and then arrest those people, but by that time it would be too late," said University of Central Florida hospitality dean Abraham Pizam, who has written books on theme-park security and safety. "Or you can start watching those individuals who may be suspicious and try to prevent them from doing harm, or even entering the facility. But then you get into trouble."

For shopping centers -- particularly those with movie theaters, which tend to draw groups of teens -- finding a way to keep loitering and disturbances to a minimum can be tricky, said David Marks, owner of Marketplace Advisors, a real-estate consulting firm in Winter Park.

"You like the kids as customers," Marks added, "but you don't want them just hanging out causing trouble and getting into mischief."

At the malls

As a preventive measure, some big mall operators have drawn up rules of behavior and hired extra security guards. Movie chains such as AMC Theatres and Regal Entertainment Group have also hired extra security when needed and say they work to discourage loitering.

Simon Property Group -- which operates several shopping centers in Central Florida including Waterford Lakes Town Center, Florida Mall and Seminole Towne Center -- posts notices at its properties to warn shoppers that loitering, disorderly conduct and dress that is "identified as gang-related through law enforcement intelligence" will not be tolerated.

Billie Scott, a Simon spokeswoman, said shoppers who violate codes of conduct -- listed on welcome signs -- are asked to comply by security personnel. On rare occasions, Scott said, uncooperative visitors are sometimes banned from the mall for a period of time. Scott said the mall does not discriminate.

"We want the mall to be a pleasant environment for everybody," Scott said. General Growth Properties, which operates the Altamonte Mall, Oviedo Marketplace and West Oaks Mall in Central Florida, also enforces a code of conduct at its shopping centers.

"The only time our public-safety officer or management team will approach a shopper is if they are blocking a major walkway or causing some kind of disturbance," said David Keating, spokesman for General Growth Properties.

Disney also posts rules of behavior, Polak said. When security officers are concerned about teens loitering, or suspect the youth may be involved in gangs, they are asked if they have any business on Disney property. If the answer is no, the guards ask them to leave. If they don't leave, the officers, bolstered by deputy sheriffs, detain and photograph the teens. Before they are expelled, they are warned in writing that they could be arrested if they return to Disney World.

It can be next to impossible to tell at a glance whether a teenager or young man is a gang member, said Jay Corzine, chairman of UCF's sociology department. One group of rowdy youth can look much like another.

"It would be very difficult to make totally accurate determinations that somebody has at least a reasonable likelihood of being a gang member," he said.

"If they want to discourage youth loitering," he added, however, "they certainly can do that, and it doesn't matter if they're gang members or not."

Crackdown and crime

Disney and the Sheriff's Office said the crackdown on loitering youth was planned weeks ago, but the weekend of the big push, June 15-17, came just days after a reported crime that made worldwide headlines.

The weekend before, a Connecticut couple had reported being kidnapped from a Downtown Disney parking lot. The Sheriff's Office raised doubts about parts of their story, but by then Disney crime was a widely discussed topic.

"I don't know if there has been any increase in crime at Downtown Disney. If they have experienced an increase in crime, especially predatory crimes such as robbery, then I can understand them wanting to do something to increase security," Corzine said.

[crazy4wdw]

COMMENTARY

Disney apology could cool talk about profiling
Mike Thomas
COMMENTARY
June 28, 2007
I must confess to the crime of loitering at Downtown Disney.

You can find me at that toy store with the Mr. Potato Head bin, watching my kids slap in eyeballs and ears.

But in my defense I keep my pants pulled up, don't harass other guests and don't curse Disney security, which by now must be desperately looking for white folks to boot out of Downtown Disney.

A crackdown on Downtown Disney loitering seems to target kids of color. That includes Garnet and Gold, given that some Florida State recruits were swept up in the bust.

Mickey is in a real bind here.

Disney sells an escape from reality. That includes removing the mental burden of fearing for your safety.

To deliver this product, Disney needs to maintain control. That is why Walt bought 27,000 acres, to separate his kingdom from our anarchy.

Disney controls access. It controls parking. That deters criminals from prowling around, looking for victims. This is why you rarely read about violent crimes on Disney property, whereas they are not all that rare on other tourism strips.

But now we have this hybrid place called Downtown Disney.

True, it is Disney. But you can drive right in and park your car without paying a dime or driving through a gate. On top of that, you can go in a bar and get drunk.

All this tends to loosen control.

That was the risk Disney took when it delved into nighttime entertainment. And so I'm not entirely sympathetic to its current plight.

The reality is that such venues attract teenagers looking for a cheap place to loiter. Downtown Orlando, Winter Park, International Drive and almost any shopping mall have all had their problems with kids.

If they are white kids in their Calvin Kleins hanging around Winter Park Village, they are treated as a nuisance at most. If they are black and Hispanic kids in their baggy pants hanging around Downtown Disney, they are treated as a threat.

You could argue it's racist.

You could argue statistical probabilities about which group is more likely to commit a crime.

The unfortunate reality is that Central Florida's epidemic of violent crime is centered in low-income, minority neighborhoods.

Another unfortunate reality is that a majority of young, minority males are good kids lumped into a bad stereotype.

I do not doubt that Disney has a problem with wannabe gangstas. Last week a 15-year-old was caught with a loaded pistol. And then there was that alleged armed abduction of a Connecticut couple from the Downtown Disney parking lot.

This threatens the perception of Disney control. It tarnishes the image that once you drive on the premises, you are wrapped tightly in Mickey's security blanket.

That image is why a shooting in downtown Orlando might not even be reported, whereas a shooting on Disney property would be national news.

Disney is not a racist company.

It targets Hispanics and blacks in its marketing. Last year it booted far more white kids than minorities.

If you want to understand Disney's motivation, think dollars, not color. It has a lot more to lose when violence breaks out at one of its venues.

Disney has to deal with the growing number of teenagers settling in at Downtown Disney. The problem with any crackdown of this magnitude is that mistakes are made.

To keep the crackdown credible, Disney needs to admit when that's the case, as it appears to be with these FSU recruits, and apologize.

Mike Thomas can be reached at 407-420-5525 or mthomas@orlandosentinel.com. His blog is OrlandoSentinel.com/mikethomas.

[crazy4wdw]

Since we have two threads on the same topic, I'm going to merge them so all of the information is in the same location.

[Jason71]

reason enough as far as im concerned:

At one point, the teens tried to enter the Pleasure Island complex of nightclubs after 11 p.m. when entry switches to those 21 and older. They declined to go to the movies as suggested and said they were at Downtown Disney to pick up girls, Krantz said he was told.

So no one goes to DTD to pick up girls?!?!? Clearly you've never been to 8-Traxx...or Motion...or RnR Beach Club...or Mannequins (well, ok, few go to Mannequins to pick up [I]girls, but the point is the same...). As for trying to enter PI after 11, the rule is not clearly posted or publicized--I see under 21s getting turned away every time I walk out of there. Not sure it warrants being circled by police.

The Sentinel is having a field day with this, check out this article by a sports columist: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-whitley2807jun28,0,433142.column?coll=orl_tab01_la yout Makes some excellent points about the thin line between browsing and loitering.

Over a dozen deputies were on hand just to surround these kids, yet we still have arguments on the board over whether there are any cops at DTD. :confused3

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

So no one goes to DTD to pick up girls?!?!? Clearly you've never been to 8-Traxx...or Motion...or RnR Beach Club...or Mannequins (well, ok, few go to Mannequins to pick up girls.

Oooh, that's cruel. Other than Thursday nights, there are lots of guys at Mannequins trying to pick up girls. The prey is only different on Thursday nights.


Makes some excellent points about the thin line between browsing and loitering.

If you're moving around and not just hanging around, no one is going to bother you. If you've got a valid movie ticket you can show that. If you've purchased your PI ticket you can show that. If you're just standing or sitting around for a long period of time security is going to see what you're up to. I don't think its racial profiling but more likely age profiling. A mom and dad with their two teens isn't going to get questioned. Youths of any color are going to get questioned about why they're there.


Over a dozen deputies were on hand just to surround these kids, yet we still have arguments on the board over whether there are any cops at DTD.

Good point.

BobK/Orlando