An open letter from SueM

[SueM in MN]

I spent the whole day today doing disaster preparedness training with people from other hospitals; planning what we would do and how we would handle it if a disaster struck.
We spent the afternoon doing a 'tabletop' exercise to apply what we had covered earlier in the day. Our 'disaster' was a blizzard and ice storm (yes, in the middle of June) and our scenario had us losing all power in the hospital from our regular and back up generator, with no idea how long it would be out. In our 'pretend hospital' for the scenario, we would have 30 patients with ventilators breathing for them when the power went out. As we worked out everything - trying to think how long a ventilator battery could possibly last and how long the staff could last if they had to manually pump the patient's lungs, I had the sobering thought that I work in a hospital where we actually do have 25-30 patients on ventilators on an average day. And that if we did have a long power outage, a great number of our patients would probably die as a result. And, we could probably do very little to prevent it.

A few weeks ago, we had another disaster training exercise - that one was bioterrorism with Plague - aren't we a cheery bunch! :scared1:

On my way home today, I heard the news stories:
12 more US troops killed in Iraq (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/06/21/iraq.main/index.html)
Missing pregnant woman still not found (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/21/missing.woman.ap/index.html)
and close to home,
a 5 yr old girl with autism found dead in a pond just across the street from her home after she wandered away. (http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_172171229.html)
I thought of what it must be like to live in a situation where your 5 year old has no sense of danger and you have to be always vigilent to the possibility of her getting out. And what those parents must be going thru tonight and how they are going to live in that house (even stay there tonight) knowing that the pond that their DD drowned in is just 300 yards from their front door.

Those are the types of thoughts that I came to the DIS Boards to escape from.
The DIS Boards were my "happy place" where I could come to share a special place and ways to enjoy that special place with others who maybe thought the 'magic' was out of their reach.
But the DIS Boards have not been so happy. This has not just been one thread, it has been several over the past few months.
When I've come here lately, I've found things like:
"they lied to me"
"people know things and won't tell me"
"people on the board are treating xxxxxxxx disability better than yyyyyyy."
"some people are prejudiced"
"no one won't list exactly what the GAC does"
(If you don't know what GAC stands for, there is a section in the disABILITIES FAQs thread that talks about it).
"No one will let me post exactly how a GAC works"
"people only care about people with permanent disabilities."
"people are PMing me with information because they don't want to get flamed"
etc. etc. etc

This sounds so much like the bickering that my brothers and sisters did while we were growing up that it's not funny. It makes the board an un-pleasant place to come and because of the general arguementative attitude of some posters, many posts are being taken in a negative way when there was NOTHING negative about them.
Negativity creates more negativity.

So, some reminders:
If you come here with a chip on your shoulder looking for the negative in people, you will probably find it and YOU will be contributing to the negative views of others.
If you assume that other people are honestly trying to help (and most are), you will find help.

When reading replies, keep in mind that seeing things in writing only gives part of the message the person was trying to convey. Something that sounds 'snarky' or rude when you read it, might sound very different in person, when you also have other clues to the meaning, like tone of voice and facial expression.

Remember that other people reading your message might not understand it the way that you meant it (see # 2).

If you post "I plan to go to WDW in August and I have xxxxxxxx. What kind of GAC should I ask for?", no one is going to tell you what kind of GAC to ask for. They will tell you to go to Guest Relations and explain your needs.
One reason for that answer, is that we don't know what Disney will offer. As one poster wrote (edited a little):
"I have no clue what Disney will offer her based on HER condition, even if something was offered for someone with xxxxx, which may be similar to what you feel she needs, Disney may give you another, maybe better option for HER. They may suggest things like she use a Wheelchair, they may suggest a waiting area while one waits on line, they may say 'try it and see how you do first', they may offer something we are not aware of that is more geared to her needs.. "
If you go in and are able to explain what your issues are, you will be able to get assistance. If you feel you are not getting what you need, ask to speak to a supervisor.

Another reason for the answer is that there are people who have abused the information from this board in the past in order to get a GAC without having any special needs. I know this because some of their relatives have PM's me, apologizing; horrified because they pointed a relative without any disabilities or special needs toward the DIS Boards. The relative, in turn, used information from this board to get a GAC without having any special needs and bragged about it to the person who PM'd me. I have gotten a number of PMs like that over the past few years.

If you post "I plan to go to WDW in August and I have xxxxxxxx. What kind of GAC should I ask for?", you will get advice from
-people who have been to WDW with xxxxxxxx and would not go again as long as they have xxxxxxxx
-people who have not been to WDW with xxxxxxx, but have been in August and would not go again
-people who have never been to WDW, but had xxxxxxx, and can't imagine going
-people who have suggestions for dealing with xxxxxxx
-people who have suggestions for dealing with xxxxxxx at WDW

They are giving their opinions. If you don't like them, you don't have to follow them. Some of the people responding may know a great deal about xxxxx, but don't know anything about GACs. So if they don't tell about GACs, they are not trying to keep information away - they just don't know anything.

Whatever board you go on, different people will have different experiences. That doesn't mean any of them are not telling the truth.
You will find threads on the Theme Parks Board where someone says they used Fastpasses after the 'window' time and someone else says they were told they could not do that.
Or opposite experieces about height restrictions, tickets or being asked to show room keys for Extra Magic Hours.
On the Resort Board, someone will post that the CM told them the limit was 4 people in one room and someone else posts a CM told them 5.
None of that means that anyone was lying - just that they had different experiences.

And one to add this morning; if you have been given information or a link that seems overwhelming or that you don't understand, it's your responsibility to let people on the thread know that. It was probably very clear to the person who wrote it but, but if you don't say anything, they won't know that, and no one can help you to clarify things.
As Cheshire Figment noted on another thread, all the Moderators on all the Boards are volunteers. We put hours into moderating the boards with no pay and sometimes a lot of grief.
We generally do it because we felt like we had something to offer and enjoyed doing it.
Even though it might seem like we are always on the boards, we do have lives outside of the DIS Boards. When people are doing things that cause the boards to take more of our time, it is taken from other parts of our lives.

And, since it's 12:50am (at least on my computer) now, I'm tired and I'm not sure I'm even making sense anymore, I'll end with
this last, final advice for all posters from Thumper's mom,
"If you don't have nothing nice to say, don't say nothing at all."

[Linda Bell]

As Cheshire Figment noted on another thread, all the Moderators on all the Boards are volunteers. We put hours into moderating the boards with no pay and sometimes a lot of grief.

"If you don't have nothing nice to say, don't say nothing at all."

:hug:

Linda

[sadeeyore]

:hug:

[RNMOM]

I appreciate your post. :hug:

[SueOKW]

I have something to say - so I will!

Nicely said, kiddo! :grouphug: :flower3:

[madenon]

That was a hard enough day, Sue!

I know how hard it can be to log on every day and see a board get less friendly or of a less quality, especially if you put your hart and soul into it. That is what you are doing; putting hart and soul into this board. It easy to say "don't let it affect you", but it simply doesn't work that simple if you've got so much invested in a board.

Unfortunately some things and some people will never change. It's up to you to find a way to deal with that. I truely deeply hope you all find your ways in that. I'm only new here and did notice things you are mentioning. But I also noticed something else; a lot of people -not in the least place the mods- very willing to help and patient with us newbe's. If I see you on here every day, answering a lot of the same questions over and over again with never anything else but patient in your postings, I can only call you a true angle for the disABILITIES.

You help us every day, do al sorts of things for all kinds of people you don't even know, nor will ever meet. If I only look at myself, you've made my trip that greater, even before I'm there. You helped me out so much, the pre-trip fun is so much more. Because of the info you shared with me, those staying at home are a lot less worried about me travelling alone. And I'm not even one to really worry or not do anything out of fear or "might not be able". Makes you think about how much impact you could have on those who are reluctant to travel with a disability because of "what if". It's time for Sue now. If you can take the crap; great! But if you can't or need a break; please also think about yourself. :grouphug:

If you ask me, it's about time we started expressing our positive feelings about the work you guys do. I know there must be more out there like me who really appreciate it. If someone is not happy, you'll more than definately hear all about it, so it's about time we start telling you when we do appreciate you guys. Am I going overboard if I'm thinking about a new topic in which we support the mods and tell them what they mean to the board and it's users?

[maestro]

Well said Sue :grouphug:
I for one really appreciate all your (and the other Mods) hard work. This forum is a very valuable resource for everyone, but particularly from my point of view as we come from the UK and it is hard to find reliable information from so far away. :love:
Could I just add that occasionally I have to do a "double take" on some replys as although we speak the same language, many laws and customs are different, and sometimes the same word can have a completely different meaning :rotfl: For example in the UK the word Handicap is seen as insulting.
It may be worth a glance just to see where a poster lives before assuming that they meant to be rude etc as it could well be that it is unintentional.
Thanks again Sue
Ceri x

[dclfun]

Well said! I'm not a moderator but I have belonged to this board for quite some time and am proud of what I've done here which is to try and help other people and to learn more from others- give and take. To the new folks, none of us here are experts or have any say whatsoever in Disney's policies, procedures or how they are administered. We don't know everything. We are just people who love WDW, want to share the things we *do* know, and try our best to help others to enjoy themselves at the parks with their special needs family member. Those who post here are dealing with a wide variety of special needs which are each very personal and unique. No "one size fits all", thus no reply may "fit all" either. Some have visited WDW many times, and some have never made their visit but are responding to questions that relate more to the special need. As Sue mentioned, if a question is responded to, the person responding may be answering from several different perspectives.

One thing about the ADA and Disney is that they are compliant and offer way more assistance and adaptations than many other vacation destinations a person could choose to visit. They do way more than they "have" to do by law and are only required to make adaptations for people who are disabled as defined by the ADA...so way more people are considered and accomodated to make their vacation a good one than is required- they truly try to treat each guest as an individual and respond to the needs we have. Nothing is perfect and it may turn out that someone's expectations cannot be met. If that is the reply a person gets, then it's reality...not that someone is lying. For myself, I'd rather know the realities of what I will be facing and the limitations rather than to think there's a GAC that will allow me to do XYZ, when XYZ is not possible. One example is the request for an alternate waiting area- there often is no alternate waiting area for an attraction- Space Mountain is one that comes to mind. Everyone must go through some sort of queue there and it's in the dark- no way to avoid it even with a Fastpass or a GAC that allows an alternate waiting area since it doesn't exist.

I know what Sue is saying and I've felt it too. If things go the way they are, then I know I'll be afraid to post anything for fear of someone taking it the wrong way when my intentions were to be helpful. Let's all keep Disney and this board a "happy place"!!! Thanks Sue!

[debbiemomto4]

Well said Sue! :thumbsup2

[Selket]

I've been reading the disboards for a long time (7+ years I think) and I think this board is the nicest - hands down - because of Sue. I read the other forums but I don't post there as much as I post here. She does an awesome job of keeping an open mind, realizing that the same disabling condition for one person can be different than for another person, and giving great advice.

I think many times when people post here they probably have a lot of fear and/or frustration with a disabling condition of their own or a loved one (perhaps not even being able or wanting to express all of that on a post on a disney board) and it is easy to feel offended if they aren't taken seriously, etc. I appreciate Sue's efforts to make everyone feel included and helped. :thumbsup2

[Kirlinale]

:cheer2:

I needed to read this today! I agree , this is the 'Happy' place were people come to put Dinsey on there radar when oridnarly it would be impossible!!

:flower3:
:grouphug:

and THANKS - that post made me feel better and I appreciate the time you and Cheshire put in here!

[Tissa]

I really do appreciate all the hard work you have put into this site Sue, and Cheshire as been terrific too in answering questions. I really appreciate the time and effort you put into the FAQ. Anytime someone has a question that I can not answer on another board I send them over here to read your FAQ. It really answers a lot of the standard questions that people have.

Keep up the good work!!!

[alizesmom]

Sue, I'm new to the board but appreciate what you are doing. It must take a lot of your time to scan the messages and add the neccessary information or to bump up an older thread. I'm sorry when people are less than kind or even more those who use your information for their own selfish reasons. Some people are like that and will never change. Please do not let them ruin the good thing you do. :hug: Karen

[SueM in MN]

Cheshire as been terrific too in answering questions. Keep up the good work!!!
::yes::
And, I don't want to leave Cheshire Figment out of this.
He and I have had PM and phone conversations about how to sensitively handle some of the things that have come up recently.
He had been active on this board for many years before he became a moderator. He was always a kind source of good information and calmness before he was a moderator and has continued to be so since he took over as the co-host in the 'disABILITIES living room'.
If it was not for his help (especially, his help) and the many helpful people who hang out,
give of their time and energy to try to answer questions,
just come for a one time visit and
lurk on the boards, only 'de-lurking occassionally,
I would probably not still be here.

:yay: :cheer2: :yay: :cheer2: :yay: :cheer2: :grouphug:

[kimysbug]

Well said

That you to all the monderators you have been so helpful to me & my family

Hugs
Kim

[Beccabunny]

I've only been posting here for a few weeks, and I want to offer my sincere apologies if I in any way added to the growing negativity in the GAC threads. When I started posting here, I found it very hard to believe people would lie, manipulate the system, or commit fraud in order to obtain the GAC or find a way to avoid the lines. Very naive of me, I know, but I guess I'm just too entrenched in my daughter's autism world and I just couldn't understand why anyone would want to fake a disability or cheat the system. And I didn't understand why certain information wasn't available. I not only advocate for my daughter but for others as well on a volunteer basis, and I tend to have trouble getting out of advocate mode. I want to see everyone who has a need get some assistance, and maybe I'm too trusting. Boy, have I ever received an education over the past few weeks! Maybe it was seeing the GAC for sale on ebay. I think that really did it for me. But seeing the kinds of threads that have been here lately had an impact too. Now I am beginning to be really afraid that Disney is going to have to make it harder to obtain a GAC, and that is going to impact those who truly need one. There are so many truly sincere people who are just trying to help their kids. I've received some PM's from some, and I feel they and others will lose out because of the abuses. And I really feel for Sue and the other moderators who are dealing with these contentious and sometimes bizarre threads. Again, I am sorry for anything I have said that was negative. I truly apprecaite the very helpful information that is available here. It bothered me to see people posting with some helpful tips, only to be told that that wasn't the kind of help that was needed. Lately I have avoided jumping in on any thread I thought was started with the purpose of being argumentative. Like Sue and many others, I want this board to be my "happy place." I am probably going to stick with things like the birthday cake thread or MNSSHP. Can't get into too many arguments there!

[Belle1997]

I am so glad you posted that message. I have really enjoyed being apart of this board. Though my disability is only over a year old. The many caring people who have answered my questions have been awesome.

When I saw the threads that were happening I was gettting disguested. "You lied to me" .... hit me hard. Just what the person was saying was hurtful even to people who did not post. I know when I post I may not get all my questions answered. I have never thought that people were intentionally holding information back. That sometimes people who may know the answers have not been on line or have not posted.

That is what the search is for. 95% of the time it has already been asked :)

Thanks for reminding us. And you are right so many of us struggle each day with a disability or a loved one with one that we need a safe place were we can get a little pixie dust and encouragement for our disney dreams.

If it was not for this board I would not have had know about the things I could do at Disney having my mobility problems. Thanks you all

[Database]

I'll end withthis last, final advice for all posters from Thumper's mom,
"If you don't have nothing nice to say, don't say nothing at all."

Amen!

I made the mistake of trying to lighten-up a thread once on another board. Wasn't well received and taken out of context. Result was like throwing gasoline on a fire. (Apparently I'm stupid and condone torture.):confused: Lesson learned.

Hope your open letter wakes us up that we all LOVE Disney and just want a fun safe place to share and learn!

[MarieS]

I just wanted to say thanks to Sue and the other moderators for all their hard work on the DIS! I really appreciate all the helpful info--especially about the first aid stations.

[yorkshiregirl]

Thank you Sue for your help and advice and well-balanced mature outlook.:hug:

[KirstenB]

Thanks Sue. Our family is fairly new with disabilities, thank goodness. The process of going through various diagnoses for our 21 mth old, both physical and cognitive/social has been an eye-opener. Some days are a bit painful, and it's hard to be objective and unemotional. Those are probably the days I should lurk, rather than post. This forum has been a wealth of information for me. I lurked for the longest time to try to be more helpful when I subbed in special ed classrooms. I never envisioned how helpful this forum would be on a personal level for our family as well. Kudos and hugs to you and Cheshire!

[Linda Bell]

Very naive of me

Stay that way! It speaks well of you that you assume the best in people. :cheer2:

Speaking of assumptions...Cheshire is a BOY! :rolleyes1 Cheshire I do apologize for calling you a great gal in one of my posts.:ccat: :figment:

Linda:earboy2:

[SueM in MN]

Stay that way! It speaks well of you that you assume the best in people. :cheer2:

Speaking of assumptions...Cheshire is a BOY! :rolleyes1 Cheshire I do apologize for calling you a great gal in one of my posts.:ccat: :figment:

Linda:earboy2:
:rotfl2: It's real hard to figure out who are guys and who are girls sometimes. I've been just a hair shy of making the same mistake at times.

::yes::
Cheshire is a guy. A great guy!::MickeyMo

[taximomfor4]

Sue, just want to chime in with a THANK YOU as well. Without the support of several DISabilities members (yourself included), I would never have even attempted a WDW trip with my dd.

Beth

[LindaBabe]

Well said, Sue! I don't come here very often but I send people here and sure appreciate that you and the other mods are here for them, and doing your best to make this a nice place to visit as well. Thank you!

I have ADD and I know from experience that particular little deficit can inflict one with hoof IN mouth disease. Sometimes things I think are fine to say will hit someone else the wrong way. So let me say, If I've been an offender - entirely possible, and I wouldn't even know it - I'm sorry. I NEVER intentionally zing someone!

[JoyMouse]

Sue, thanks for all that you and other moderators do. You are awesome! This is a super place to go for info. or even just stress relief. You are appreciated.
Joy :cutie:

[HarbinsMom]

Thanks to you Sue and Cheshire both for your patience and wisdom. Thanks for making this a *place away from the magic*.

[GroovyWheeler]

Just wanted to say "thanks" too. Even though I know what to expect when taking my manual wheelchair to Disney, I didn't know what to expect when I take my walker to Disney World next year. I got my question about taking my walker on the bus, as I would if I had my wheelchair, answered. But, I may have more when my trip gets closer. And, I feel confident that there are knowledgeable people on here that would be able to help me answer them.

Samantha

[5dwarves]

Sue and e-friends:

My DS was on a waiting list for a transplant from age 4 to age 7 and finally received his new liver last year - many thanks to donor families out there, saving someone else's life at the lowest moment in their lives; you are my heroes! After transplant, my DS has had seizures and it is thought that he may possibly have ASD or Aspbergers. The testing happens when we get back from WDW. To add insult to injury, a few months ago, he was bounced from hospital to hospital because there were fears that he had contracted colon cancer from the transplant meds he is on. Thank heavens that was not the case.

About 3 months ago one of his care coordinators nominated him to a wish organization in our state and a little while later we found out my DS's wish was granted. Off to FL for all of us for the first time! I lived in CA for several years and did Disneyland frequently (back in the E ticket days). I have NO WDW experience. I have 5 children (thus the 5dwarves name). WDW in July/August with five kids is daunting...add a special needs child to that and it can become frightening. I met a woman whose DS has Aspbergers and she was preparing to leave for WDW (and is probably there right now). She sent me here for info and reassurance. This forum has been invaluable to me! Even though I have posted less than a dozen times, I have read a great deal and gained invaluable information. I have even gained the fun stuff like the tye dye Mickey shirt instructions! You have all helped alleviate a great deal of anxiety for me.

I am very sorry that you and others had had to deal with ugly behavior on this forum. I am, however, extremely thankful and glad you, and so many others, perservere through the ugliness, ignore those that would manipulate, and still continue to help people like me. Many, many thanks!!!!!! You all have been part of the Disney magic for My DH, DS, DD, DS, DS, DS and me.

:tink:

[MightyMom]

SueM (and all moderators for that matter)

You have the patience of a saint. I enjoy reading through some threads, but I know I would never have the patience to moderate this board.

Having a child with a disability has opened my eyes to a world I was closed off to. You see the world in a new way. You notice the lack of ramps and accessible parking. You see a whole new level of ignorance. But on the flip side you see overwhelming compassion and pure goodness in people.

For me and my family Disney World is a place we have gone to escape the world we live in. My son rides Big Thunder Mountain with his arms up in the air just like every other 8 year old boy. For those few minutes.....he is just like every other kid..... it doesn't matter that he has cerebral palsy.

In between our visits... I visit these boards and live vicariously through other people. I come here open minded... trying to learn something new to make our trip a little more special.

[SueM in MN]

SueM (and all moderators for that matter)

You have the patience of a saint.
Thanks for your comments.

I have the advantage of time on my side. My DD who is disabled is 22 years old, so I have been dealing with this a long time.
At one time in my life, I did not have the 'patience of a saint' . I probably got less done because I was wanting everything done right now. I know that there are people who come to this board who are where I was that many years ago and I can be patient with them because I understand how it was to be where they are now.

[madenon]

My DD who is disabled is 22 years old, so I have been dealing with this a long time.


I'm learning on this board everyday. Somehow I got to think your DD is much younger. :confused3

[Janet2k]

The DIS Boards were my "happy place" where I could come to share a special place and ways to enjoy that special place with others who maybe thought the 'magic' was out of their reach.

Four summers ago, I injured my leg. It was a serious injury that required a metal plate, eight screws, and a wire to fix. Since I was confined to a wheelchair for a few months while my leg healed, I began to think that it would probably be best if I cancelled my fall Walt Disney World vacation. After all, what fun would I be to my family if they had to push me around in my wheelchair? But a kind Dis’er outed me over here on the disABILITIES! board. Thanks to the wonderful advice (and moral support) that I received, I went through with that vacation and my family had the time of their lives: click here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/janettwokay/570168035/in/set-72157600435642454/).

I’m posting here because in this hectic world that we live in, most folks don’t hear often enough how they’ve touched the lives of others in very positive ways. I have never forgotten how my life was touched here on the disABILITIES! board by SueM in MN and many other Dis'ers. To all of you, thank you.

[celerystalker]

Wow Sue! Great post! It could apply to all of the DIS, not just this section.
I just came to get a question answered, and before I could get to the FAQ, I saw your letter.
Maybe it should be required reading for everyone on the boards? ;)
Hope things are going better for you and that people responded in kindness (I didn't read all the comments, just your letter.).

Now I'm going to go look for the answers I need!

[Napria]

In the world of autism there's a method of getting what you need out of these kids called Positive Behavioral Support (it stems from ABA). It means that you don't deal with the negative, except by finding the positive and reinforcing it. Well it's a little more complicated than that, but that boils it down nicely.

After employing this method successfully with my DS, I've found that it works -- and is appreciated -- with other, neurotypical people (DH, for instance.) What a better world this would be if we could all practice this.

As grandma always said, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." It was appropriate then, it's appropriate now.

Thanks for all you do, Sue. I think you and CheshireFigment do an awesome job! I've had really great experiences here and if it weren't for the disABILITIES board, my son wouldn't have his wheelchair, we wouldn't have gone back to WDW last January and wouldn't be returning in April.

Thanks,

Anne

[kimsuenew]

Thanks Sue! What you do is appreciated! :)

[kmores]

Thanks Sue! What you do is appreciated! :)

not sure if this forum is still being looked at or where the past ones are. last trip Disney 11/07 I got so worn out that I could no longer walk after 3 days of 9 day trip. I don't usually walk, and then definitely not the non-stop craziness that is Disney! I went back to resort and let DH take DD back to the parks. I was devastated. I don't have a true or full "disability" but I could no longer move my legs and hips - they hurt so badly. I went ahead and requested a scooter and got one later that day. I didn't get any GAC card or anything. I was surprised to get in to Indiana Jones earlier without a Fast Pass and felt bad about doing it - that wasn't the intention. When I could, I would try to park and walk. But the scooter was invaluable to me being able to continue to enjoy the parks with my family. I work with folks who have disabilities. I was still embarrassed that I could no longer walk like I thought and that I had to resort to the scooter. I don't usually walk that much in a month, much less in several days. However, had I NOT gotten the scooter, I would have spent the remaining 6 days in bed, unable to enjoy the trip with my family. The scooter allowed me to "save" my legs to get in the long ride lines. I was still in pain at the end of the day but not as much. And, others have "hidden" disabilities people aren't aware of. My dad had MS and looked fine...but he would tire very easily and couldn't handle heat. I want to be able t say I won't need the scooter in Nov but I will probably have it on standby anyway just in case.

[SueM in MN]

not sure if this forum is still being looked at or where the past ones are.
I'm not sure what you mean here. If you could be more specific, I'll try to help you with the answer. If you are asking what I think you mean, the older threads are still here, you just can't see more than the last few pages.
If you are looking for something older in particular, let us know and we can help you find it.
I was surprised to get in to Indiana Jones earlier without a Fast Pass and felt bad about doing it - that wasn't the intention.
Don't feel bad. :hug:
For Indiana Jones, that's the way they do things for 3 reasons.
1) There are limited numbers of seating spacces for people using ECVs and wheelchairs, so they need to separate people using them out from the rest of the audience. That way, they can make sure they don't leave more people using assistive devices into the area than there are spaces for.
2) The theater for Indiana Jones holds a huge amount of people and they 'load' them into the theater in a relatively short time. It is safer for the people using wheelchairs/ECVs and for the rest of the audience to 'load' as many of the wheelchairs/ECVs before the rest of the audience comes in.
3) People using ECvs/wheelchairs have specific spots that a CM needs to direct them to. If they can direct a number of people to those spots before letting in the rest of the audience, that frees up some CMs for general audience direction.

Even though many people get a Fastpass for Indiana Jones, it's usually not needed. Most shows we've been in there are still some empty seats when the show begins. That means that all the people with Fastpasses and all the people in the standby line got in to that show. If all the wheelchair/EV spots are filled up, it's possible that someone using a wheelchair or ECV may have to wait for the next show, even though there are many 'regular' seats left.
Also, even though you may have gotten in faster, that just meant you waited inside longer - you still saw the same show at the same time as all the people with Fastpasses for that show saw.

Many of the shows run like that for the same reasons.

If you need an ECV for a trip, it doesn't matter whether you need it for that day or have a permanent disability. You need it, so it's not an 'advantage' to you. It's what you need to be able to go.
In most cases, you either won't get in any earlier with an ECV/wheelchair or if you do get in earlier, it's for some reasons about how that attraction works that are not visible to you (like the ones I mentioned above).
Also, many attractions have queues with a long walk in, no matter if the 'wait' is 5 minutes or 50 minutes. Soarin' and Bug's Life are 2 examples of long queues. It's important to know that so you can make a decision about whether taking the ECV/wheelchair in line will make your wait easier. We are trying to collect that kind of information on this board (the first park FAQs thread is started and is for Epcot). You can also ask the CM at the ride entrance.

[Bill_Lin]

I have also found Sue and Cheshire Figment to be very helpful and professional.

I had my eyes opened recently, by the moderators, regaring the ongoing problem of people trying to inappropriately obtain or use GACs. It really is sad. GAC information is clearly a very sensitive issue and is handled very well by the moderators.

Thanks to Disney for working so hard to make accommodations. The G.A.C. is a wonderful solution. I suppose that, human nature being what it is, any system that is devised will have some people trying to exploit or circumvent it. The greater the benefit of cheating, the more people will try to cheat. A trip to WDW is a significant investment of time and resources. The expectations and opportunities are very high when people get there. The deserved popularity of the parks creates crowds, naturally. What all this adds up to is a multitude of highly motivated individuals all wanting to have the same experience at the same time. Those with manners will wait. Others will act almost desperate to get on the next ride and will be resentful of those who "stand in their way" or who use the G.A.C. for accommodation.

This phenomenon is certainly not unique to WDW. If anything, there less rudeness and complaining there (in my experience) than in other crowded venues, such as concert lines and sporting events. Perhaps this is due to the high degree of courtesy, and the positive attitudes of Disney's highly trained Cast Members. Disney wins my "most smiles per staff member" award of any place I have ever been.

I made the mistake earlier of naively disclosing too much information about how my Give Kids the World G.A.C. worked. First of all, I did not understand that each G.A.C. is unique. Secondly, I did not realize that dishonest folks might use the information to get at G.A.C. under false pretenses.

A thank you to Sue and Cheshire Figment for explaining this to me.

It is my desire to help people planning Wish Trips to WDW find information that will assist them. The planning time is often short for these trips, as dates for travel may not be confirmed more than 2-3 months in advance. This causes the parents to be a bit "frantic" in information gathering. For this reason, I have included links in my signature to help people find such information.

Bill

[connolly14620]

Thank you for all that you do for this board. I stumbled across this board today, as I was researching access issues for my son on a trip we are planning for next June. This board is invaluable and I appreicaite all the unpaid time and effort you put into this board.

[SueM in MN]

Thank you for all that you do for this board. I stumbled across this board today, as I was researching access issues for my son on a trip we are planning for next June. This board is invaluable and I appreicaite all the unpaid time and effort you put into this board.

thank you
What a nice thing to say from such a new poster
Welcome to our corner of the boards!:yay:

[clint999]

Sue, I'm new to the board but appreciate what you are doing. It must take a lot of your time to scan the messages and add the neccessary information or to bump up an older thread. I'm sorry when people are less than kind or even more those who use your information for their own selfish reasons. Some people are like that and will never change. Please do not let them ruin the good thing you do. Karen

[SueM in MN]

I POSTED THIS ON A THREAD BEFORE I CLOSED IT AND THOUGHT IT PROBABLY BELONGED HERE TOO:

Even if one guest posts, "I was just at WDW and this is what happened".........
that doesn't mean the same thing will happen to each guest, or even that it would have happened just that way if the poster had gone on that attraction later in the same trip.

CMs have different methods/tools available at each attractions in order to give accommodation. Exactly WHAT tools are used are going to depend on the needs of the person with the GAC, what is available at that attraction and also on things that are not visible to the guest - like how many people with special needs are already waiting, what the general wait time is, the staffing levels, the space available for waiting.
That can mean that same guest can go to the same attraction
on the same day
with the same needs
and the same GAC
and be treated differently on a second ride on that attraction than the first time.

Actually using the Fastpass system as it is set up for guests to use will give consistent results; using a GAC will not.

That is one of the reasons people on this board caution against expectations. When people read "I had a GAC and I did xxxxxxx", they expect the same experience, even if their situation is different or the conditions are different when they go. (There is more information about this on the disABILITIES FAQs thread in the post about GACs).

Most of the regular posters on this board (me included) have been to WDW many times and have seen/experienced the different ways of dealing with the same GAC themselves. That's one of the reasons we are 'cautious' about telling people exactly what to expect - it changes and people often post "I expected xxxxxxx, but yyyyyy happened".
So, we tell people to expect that yyyyyyy (or even zzzzzz) might happen instead of what they expect. That is the point where some guests post, "But, I used a GAC on my trip and xxxxxxxx did happen" and kind of imply that would be/should be what happens every time, since that was what happened to them.
We're just saying that what some people experience and think is the rule is actually the exception, rather than the rule.

As another example, on our last trip in October, lines were short. At Buzz Lightyear, DD entered the regular 'stand-by' line with her wheelchair. The CM at the Fastpass entrance motiioned us to come over and told us to use the Fastpass line, giving us a handwritten Fastpass to give the CM collecting Fastpasses.
We also received the same 'treatment' on some other attractions during that same trip.
If this was our first trip, I may have come back and posted on the DIS Boards that using a wheelchair 'allowed' us to use the Fastpass lines. I would have probably thought that was what was the rule about what was 'supposed' to happen. I would not realize that was the exception rather than the rule.

The report would be the truth as far as reporting our experience, but it would not be the whole truth because there are things that I know as an experienced WDW visitor that someone on a first trip with a guest using a wheelchair would not know/notice.
In these case, both the Fastpass and the regular line were short. Because the regular line has more twists and turns, it would be more difficult for us to get thru it with a wheelchair; not a problem when the line is moving slowly, but actually slows down the line when guests are walking thru quickly. So, in that situation, it's better for the attraction when the CM sent us to use the Fastpass line.
The same thing happens with GACs sometimes. The way the CM chooses to give accomodation may look like an advantage for the person with the GAC, when it's actually to WDW's benefit to handle it that way.
And, in this case (as well as for most shows, even when it's busy) using the Fastpass line did not really get us in more quickly; it just was more convenient for both us and the CMs.

Someone posted recently in a trip report that they used a GAC and were able to use the Fastpass line instead of waiting in 'hour long lines' to see Indiana Jones. The accomodation needed was to be able to sit in front rows of shows because of a vision problem. Because of their needs, there had to be some way to separate that guest's party out from the other guests. The way the CM's did it was to use the Fastpass line so they were in a smaller group and were allowed in before the majority of guests before all the close seats were gone.
They saw using the GAC as an advantage and felt kind of embarrassed using it, but they didn't realize that their initial assessment (that people wait for hours in line for Indiana Jones) was not correct.

The last point I want to make is that a GAC only helps with attractions, and even then maybe not with all attractions. If the park is busy, it's going to be busy all over, not just in lines/attractions. That general 'busyness' in the parks can be even more overwhelming to many people than waiting in lines.
It is a much bigger 'advantage' to know what is busy and when, so that you can go when it's more quiet. With a few exceptions, attractions have slow times when your wait in the regular line is only a few minutes (Soarin' and Toy Story Mania are exceptions because they are popular and fairly new). Going to MK at opening usually means being able to go on most attractions with waits of less than 15 minutes. Going mid day might mean a wait of 45 minutes - 1 hour for some attractions. All parks have situations like this and a good touring plan can minimize or eliminate the need to use a GAC. (Many people like to use Tour Guide Mike, a Theme Parks sponsor).

[Cheshire Figment]

I would like to chime in a bit here. This winter I am working at Indiana Jones while Typhoon Lagoon is being rebuilt.

The theater at Indy has seating for about 1,900 people. There are 24 spaces for wheelchair/ECV seating, 20 at the back of the theater (top row) and 4 in the first row on the extreme (theater) right side. All of these spaces have reserved seating next to them and also in the next-to-top row.

It is not unusual for people who are in wheelchairs or ECVs tell us they can transfer, and they park inside the entrance to the theater on either side and are escorted to handicap seating.

Once the 24 wheelchair/ECV space are taken we cannot accept any more wheelchairs into the show unless the people can transfer.

For people with GACs, we will look at what the GAC has on it and take what action we can. If a person comes in only a few minutes before show time, and we are crowded, even having a GAC may not help if all the seats are taken.

So, as Sue said, everything depends not only on what is stamped on the GAC but also what is actually available at the time a person wants to go to the ride or show.

[mrsksomeday]

Cheshire Figment and SueM in MN, there is no way I can express how much this forum has helped me. Both of you are a wealth of information that the DIS is extremely lucky to have.

The first time I went to WDW was Feb. 2006 with my DBF Bill (he has Cerebral Palsy and is in a motorized wheelchair), and my son. This was before I found the DIS, it was a wonderful vacation, but overwhelming, and I wasn't sure what he could or could not do. He had been before and knew a lot of things, but I felt clueless.

I found the DIS in July of 2006 and it opened up a new world to me. I still read on the disabilities board every day.

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and helping us.

[JohnnySharp2]

I too read the disABILITIES forum each day.

As Joshua gets older I find the fact many people understand better and often have the same or similar experiences a big comfort.
No disrespect to the other forums, but sometimes speaking with people who really understand what it is like to have a child with special needs is in itself 'special'.

[Puget Peach]

Being able to "check things out" made our first trip to Disney posible. My SO uses a power wheelchair (visual clue to disability) and also has mental disabilities (no visual clues). He can transfer for rides but cannot be in crowded spaces for a long period of time or stand/walk more than 20 feet or so. We had visited several "amusement" parks with many extremely stressful experiences, mostly pertaining to poorly trained staff and lack of respect/understanding of the vast differences in manifestations of disabilities:confused3 . I talked him into a Disney trip in 2004 and he read everything he possibly could about how Disney handled various attractions and he promised to try "just one more time" to vacation. Nothing prepared him for the absolutely wonderful vacation we experienced! While we discovered that he might not load an attraction the same way each time (he ADORES Rock 'n Roller Coaster and we have loaded at least four different ways for this attraction), he was able to relax and simply arrive at the que entrance and learned to expect a good experience:yay: . Without fail, a CM would walk out to meet us and respectfully direct us on loading procedures. This was also true of bus drivers, boat captains, restautant personnel, and the list goes on and on. We are currently planning trip #'s 3 and 4 together this year and just may decide a DVC Membership is in our future:rolleyes1 ! If the information offered on these boards seems at times contradictory, that may well be because there may be more than one way a CM may assist you in their own special, magical way. I can't think of a better vacation than one in which all we have to do is show up be taken care of:cloud9: !

[Tiiiigergirl]

Sue,

Over the years I have come back to this forum and I want to add my thanks. In addition to help with Disney related trips, you and others have provided me with invaluable advice on the different disabilities that we have in our family and guidance on how to handle it. You probably don't even know but your information has helped me on at least 3 different occasions out of the "world". For that I also say a huge thanks!

[SueM in MN]

Glad we can help. That makes it all worthwhile. :goodvibes :grouphug:

[maganda]

Sue, thanks for what you do!

[LuvMy3Monkeys]

SueM, wonderful post. 100% agreed. I'm an STNA in a nursing home, and those "scenarios" they give us terrify the crap outta me! Makes you realize how good you have it when you walk out the door to go home to your kids. :hug:

Another thing that caught me eye in your post, about the pregnant mother still not found. I'm assuming by the time frame, you're referring to Jessie Davis, who was murdered by her baby's-father, the cop? If so, we live about 2 miles from where she lived. Some friends and I participated in the search for two days. It was horrible. :sad2: Really makes you appreciate all the little things you didn't seem to notice the day before :grouphug:

[starnightstarsky2000]

Sue,
Our family is also in your debt for all that you have done for this board. We had been planning our last year Aug trip to the World since Feb and then in June my 8yr DS was diagnosed with Aspergers and we were told "that he shouldn't go to WDW that it would be too much for him" my son was heartbroken as Disney had been "his" thing for two years every since we had gone with my entire family in '07 (which has been nicknamed the Trip from Heck LOL) . My husband and I promised him we would find a way to go that would be safe for him. And then we discovered your board and suddenly not only were we sure that we could go on our trip but the chats and suggestions given by you and others made it such a pleasure that we are going back this Sept and here I am again to find new ideas and plans for this up coming trip. So thank you Sue and BIG :grouphug: to you and all the mods who make this board such a wonderful experience for everyone.

[kampfirekim]

I've said it before and I'll say it again....Thank you Sue for all that you do! Us posters come and go on the boards as we please. I can't imagine the time and energy it takes for you to try to enjoy the boards and be the referee when needed. Thanks a million!

[sharadoc]

I need to chime in here too because, truthfully, having the DISabilities board to read has changed our life! Our son with autism is 14 and until I found this board, I didn't think we could ever go on vacation, especially to Disney World. He has always loved everything Disney and the fact that he would never see the place that he has seen on Vacation Planning tapes since he was 2 years old broke my heart.

Then, my arthritis REALLY took off and that clinched it. I can't walk and he wouldn't be able to handle it.

Well, finding this board made me realize we COULD do it. We took the family last year in January and it was such a success, totally due to what I learned on here. We've been back 3 times since then, and we're going two more times this year. He LOVES going and always looks forward to going back. He's ready to go the day after we come home :) .

Having Disney World vacations honestly changed our outlook on life. We all know that having a child with special needs is challenging and at times can be REALLY depressing. But having a Disney vacation to plan and look forward to and seeing the happiness on his face when we are there makes every day a little bit happier :cloud9: for all of us.

Sue is the anchor that keeps us strong. Thank you Sue. :hug:

Cheshire Figment is a great source of knowledge, too and I truly appreciate all he does for us here and on the other discussion boards. Someday I hope to see that purple figment scooter in person!!

[SueM in MN]

:goodvibes:grouphug:

and the posters and stories like this are what keep me strong.

Thank You all.

And special thanks to Cheshire Figment.

[wuv tigger]

for keeping the disabilities info up to date with new info on ride & attractions

for encouraging ALL of us with disabilities to enjoy WDW as best we can

for giving us a forum to exchange ideas to make our trips the best they can be for our families

for being a listening "ear" for me as I was swamped with the waves from a speedboat called "seizures" and encouraged me to enjoy my recent trip with my family!

THANKS Sue for ALL the info you shared to make our family's trip the best it could be with the "new" norm that I am living with for the future.

[SueM in MN]

Thanks to all who share on this board.:grouphug:

[sunset30]

Just a little thanks from me for modding this board, putting up loads of info, and for giving all the wonderful people who have offered me advice a place to be together where I could find them!

I never for one minute, when I booked my trip to WDW imagined that I would need this board, but now I have posted my questions, people have been so helpful to me, I am armed with a bunch of suggestions and ideas I would NEVER have thought of without the disABILITIES people. I don't know YET which will work best for US, but, if one doesn't I now have a few back up plans!

So thank you to everyone who helped me, and thank you to you for modding!
Lx

[Ellen.and.Joey]

I just wanted to say I am to trusting too, but after going to Disney World, it just reaffirmed it in me. I read months on this board and the other ones too. I was taught if you can't say something nice, then don't.

I have learned a great deal here and I plan to stay and keep learning. I am on a crafting board too and they are the same way, some people must gripe and stir the pot.

We will just keep sharing our information with others so that they have a great time, just like we just did.

Thank you.

Ellen

[SueM in MN]

This was written in response to a thread that was becoming argumentative about what people with disabilities need; I felt it made sense to repeat it here.

“Six Blind Men and An Elephant”: A Fable

A long time ago in India there lived six men who had all been blind since birth; they would compete with each other to see who could tell the tallest story and each always thought that he was correct.

One day, they fell to arguing. The object of their dispute was the elephant. Now, since each was blind, none had ever seen an elephant. So, to satisfy their minds and settle the dispute, they decided to try to find an elephant.

Having hired a young guide, they set out early one morning in single file along the forest trail. It was not long before they came to a forest clearing where a huge bull elephant, quite tame, was standing.

The six blind men became quite excited; at last they would satisfy their minds. Each of the men took turns to investigate the elephant's shape and form. Since all were blind and the elephant was large, none of them could tell what the whole elephant was like. Each came to a different part and felt that part to tell the others what the elephant was like.

The first man felt the side of the elephant and cried out, 'O my brothers, an elephant is like a great mud wall baked hard in the sun.'

The second man felt the tusk and said, 'Now, my brothers, I can tell you what shape this elephant is - he is exactly like a spear.'

The third man felt the tail and shouted, 'Why, dear brothers, you are wrong. This elephant is very much like a rope.'

The fourth man was at the head and as he moved his hands, he reached the trunk. He said, 'Ha, are you sure you are feeling an elephant. He is not at all the way you describe. This elephant is very much like a snake.'

The others began to argue that their view was correct.

The fifth man, who was also at the head of the elephant, reached the ear and said, 'Good gracious, brothers, even a blind man can see what shape the elephant resembles most. Why he's just like a fan or maybe a palm leaf.'

At last, it was the turn of the sixth old fellow, who was near the leg. As he felt it, he said, 'Brothers, all of you are wrong. This sturdy pillar, feels exactly like the trunk of a large palm tree.'

Of course, no one believed him, because they had all their own view of the elephant and were sure their view was the correct one.

Their curiosity satisfied, they all linked hands and followed the guide back to the village. Once there, the six blind men began arguing loud and long. Each now had his own opinion, firmly based on his own experience, of what an elephant is really like. For after all, each had felt the elephant for himself and knew that he was right!
Although each was right about the part of the elephant HE had felt, none of the blind men had a complete picture of the elephant.
They continued to argue because none of them would admit that possibly there was a different view of the elephant than they had.

Like the 6 blind men, each person has their own view of "disability" and what "using a wheelchair" means, based on their experience.
Some people realize that their view is not the only view and are able to see that some guests might have different needs than they do and what works well for them may not work at all for another guest.

Like the arguing blind men, some guests see their view as the only view and can't see that someone else may have different needs.

People do not come here to argue and arguements or telling other posters how they should feel about their disability will not be tolerated.
This is a support and information board, not a place to argue.

[rondesj]

Sometimes things need to be said. To you who she ticked off, somethings just need to be heard

[KPeveler]

Ronde - I don't understand what your post means...

[physicalt104]

Hi Sue-
I must say, especially in the past several months, I have witnessed decidely "UNDISNEY" behavior on various threads. I, too, come to the Dis to learn, share and escape; Disney folks see the world from a different point of view, right?!
Thank you, Sue, for setting the World right...:lovestruc

[SueM in MN]

I was cleaning out some PMs because my box was full (if anyone tried to PM me lately and got a “This mailbox is full” message, I apologize) and I found one where someone thanked me for posting on a thread a long time ago. The OP on the thread was very bitter and angry because she felt no one had it as ‘bad’ as she did and she felt people on this board needed to “learn what real disabilities are, since you obviously don’t know.” That bitter poster wrote on several thread, some of which were actually part of the reason I wrote this Open Letter thread.
The person who PM’d me wrote that what I wrote on that thread in response to the OP helped her, so I thought I would re-post it here:

My daughter doesn't walk or talk and never will and I do have to get up during the night to turn her or sit with her when she has a seizure during the night. I know what it is like to lift her out of bed each morning, dress her, feed her, bathe her, lift her in and out of her wheelchair and at the end of the day, lift her back into bed to start a new cycle.
I know what it is like to be worried about what will happen if she has a seizure or a nosebleed during the night and I don't wake up.
I know what it is like to have a child in liver failure from medications that I agreed to give her to control her seizures. Thank God, she recovered from liver failure and didn't need a transplant, but that was the road we were on. And, I worry each day about whether any of the medications she is on is going to tip the balance between helping and harming her. I know what it's like to dread the passage of time because each day brings me one day closer to no longer being able to care for her. I know what it's like to worry about whether my older daughter will be able to bear the burden of her younger sister after I'm gone. I know what it's like to wonder "what if" and to cry for things my child will never do, but I thank God each day that I am blessed enough to have her, no matter what she is able or not able to do.

I know there are people who have a heavier load than I have, and others who have a lighter load.
I know what it's like to have a friend whose child could walk and talk, but the family was told to value each day because he was likely to not live past 12 years because his heart was a ticking time bomb in his chest. I know what it's like to sit in her living room, guarding her house from a break-in during his funeral, knowing that she found his dead body in the bedroom when he was 18 down the hall from where I sat during the funeral. And, I have the memory of my thoughts at that time about how heavy her burden was and whether I would have broken under it.

I know what it is like to sometimes envy someone's apparently lighter load, but the person carrying the load is the only one who feels how heavy it actually is and their load may be just as heavy to them as my load is to me. I would never be angry at someone just because their load seems to be lighter than mine; I can do nothing about anyone else's load, only my own and how I carry it.

[klmall]

I just finished reading this thread from the beginning and I also wanted to say "Thanks Sue!" for all your work with this forum. The last few years I would lurk on this board hunting for hints about how to support DH who has severe scoliosis and difficulty traveling in general and I found them.

In my mind, I just couldn't comprehend how anyone who could do something to make his life a little easier and enjoy traveling with his family wouldn't do so. It drove me nuts when DH wouldn't even rent an ECV at Disney. Since he didn't want to talk about how he felt, it helped me to read posts on this board. In 2007 we talked him into renting an ECV for a couple days and though he said it bothered him to have people think it was his weight that caused him to ride, he did enjoy EPCOT so much more! Finally in 2010 I asked our ortho specialist for a Disabled parking pass and surprised DH! He loves it!

Now for our trip in two months he is finally comfortable with the idea of using an ECV the entire time and we will be renting one from outside Disney. Yes, DH is overweight and has been most of his life but his scoliosis is so bad that he tilts to one side as well as bending forward. When he gets off that scooter he does look disabled but he has been in pain for 20+ years without any accommodation and partially because even some doctors would tell him that his weight was the cause of his pain without looking for a physical cause. And he does use a cane when he walks now which to me, help others recognize his needs.

Thanks for letting me talk!

[andrewilley]

Look, surprise!!!!!

Spammer reported.

Andre

[SueM in MN]

Spammer reported.

Andre
Thank you.

Spammer deleted. And how dare the spammer post on this thread in particular!